Swords and aesthetics

>>1438843
I think you're over simplifying. It's a combination of sytles and features that make the aesthetic. You're being a bit bold suggesting all cup hilted blades look bad. While I'm not a fan either someone I train with has one and it grows on you. Plus their practicality is to die for.
Not all cups look good but particular combinations of cup and quillion and the cup being the right size and I really don't mind it.

I like a smoother blade with light camber with minimal cross guard hilt. Perhaps a ring guard and a leaver wrap with a simple, smooth leather pommel.

File: colichemarde.png (89KB, 635x134px) Image search: [Google]

89KB, 635x134px

Colichemarde is another blade type that I find ugly. Strong forte for parrying and a pointy tip makes sense, but it looks weird when it becomes abruptly narrow rather than smoothly tapering.

>>1438853
>You're being a bit bold suggesting all cup hilted blades look bad. While I'm not a fan either someone I train with has one and it grows on you. Plus their practicality is to die for.

Cup-hilts do look boring in comparison to swept-hilts, but partly the reason the look lame to me is that I associate cup-hilt with Zorro-like clowns with flexible foil blades.... so that's more of an learned association thing. They are very practical though.

File: DSC04369a.jpg (233KB, 822x1277px) Image search: [Google]

233KB, 822x1277px

>pattern welding
>lots of gold/brass/bronze/silver and bone or some cool wood in hilt

File: 080128worldmap.jpg (323KB, 648x379px) Image search: [Google]

323KB, 648x379px

>>1438843
i love the gladius cause its so simple yet elegant and practically its no biggie if you drop lose or otherwise opt for the spear or dagger in the heat of battle. standardised, i can pick up a deadmans and swing on. bash their brains in with the hilt, and stab between the holes formed by my comrades testudo shield walls

rapiers are nice, and combat daggers

File: pappenheimer.png (204KB, 796x594px) Image search: [Google]

204KB, 796x594px

Curved quillons look nice, especially if they are curved in opposite directions. I can't think of any practical justification for the backward curve though, forward curve may be useful for hooking the opponents sword (though angled straight quillons, like with claymore, probably make more sense).

File: navalswordncoreplica.jpg (113KB, 1000x1000px) Image search: [Google]

113KB, 1000x1000px

>>1438843
the european ceremonial officer swords of the 1800s were the best looking by far

>>1438843
Gladius is definitely overrated as fuck. Spatha is far better.

File: teu1.jpg (90KB, 750x562px) Image search: [Google]

90KB, 750x562px

I like Korean swords.

>>1438967
>Spatha
was for cavalry predominantly, gladius for infantry

>>1439027
and yet the late roman infantry used spatha rather than gladius despite it being the more costly to manufacture.

>>1439027
It became the main sword of Roman foot soldiers later on.

>>1439042
Presumably because they were better for fighting in smaller formations that the later Roman army used on the frontier. The short stabbing gladius was useful in massive legionary formations against massed ranks of heavy infantry, but less useful against spear wielding Germans.

>>1438930
you've never done any of that or even held them

>>1439052
The Gladius came into use when their main enemy was barbarians

I like sexy sabre curves

>>1438966
this

File: image.png (2MB, 2583x750px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 2583x750px

>>1439086
forgot pic

>>1439082
>The Gladius came into use when their main enemy was barbarians

No the gladius came into use when their main enemy was other Italians, Greek hoplites, Carthaginian mercenaries etc. They fought pitched battles. Making short-scale punitive actions across a frontier zone demands a different type of sword.

Ammianus Marcellinus talks a lot about how the late Roman army fought compared to the Republican one. They ambushed more, they fought in tiny detachments, used a shit ton of artillery etc.

>>1438843

The Gladius is beautiful in its simplicity. It's a stubby fat evicerating tool meant to be used in repetitive, aggressive motions, it's a testament to the raw vigor of the legionaire that chops and stabs his way into a human tide crashing against him. It doesnt parry or block, only attacks.

>>1439111

It originates from spain doesnt it?

>>1439167
The real name is gladius hispaniensis, gladius in latin just means sword.

>>1439205

So both the Gladius and the Scutum came from Spain, as well as the Pila, interesting

File: 3.jpg (81KB, 1024x768px) Image search: [Google]

81KB, 1024x768px

>>1438843
The falcata


so sexy

>>1439111
>No the gladius came into use when their main enemy was other Italians, Greek hoplites, Carthaginian mercenaries etc. They fought pitched battles. Making short-scale punitive actions across a frontier zone demands a different type of sword.
No, they literally adopted it from Iberians while fighting Iberians. Their main enemy was Carthage however the main troops they actually fought were Iberians, Celts and Libyans.

It's all pointless because before they adopted the Gladius they just used the Greek Xiphos which basically fills the same role, it's short, cutty and stabby.

The late Roman army doesnt matter when we're talking about the Gladius

>>1439292
Actually the Pila is native. While the Iberians did use similar long shanked javelins, so did the Etruscans, Samnites, other people in Italy and probably the Romans. Archaeology supports this and i know because i once argued the same as you and got BTFO.

>>1439292
The Gladius was Iberian, but the Scutum was of Italian origin.
The Iberian "Scuta" probably came from Gallic shields as before they became widely adopted, the common shield in Iberia was the buckler-like Caetra, larger round shields existed too.
Broadly speaking the Pilum was probably a common design throughout the western mediterranean. A long, thin head that could pierce and get stuck in a shield was commonplace. From Italy through Gaul and into Spain, where the all-metal Soliferrum was the most extreme version.

File: 1gretirs8.jpg (25KB, 500x318px) Image search: [Google]

25KB, 500x318px

Seax master race.

>>1439349
>Caetra

Is that the origin of the Cetratus oval shield? It looks more like the Parmas of the cavalry

File: WallaceCollectionSwissSaber.jpg (40KB, 800x500px) Image search: [Google]

40KB, 800x500px

Best aesthetics coming through.

>>1439334

Are the Kopis and the Falcata related?

>>1439375
how can any other wepon compete with saber?
>most beautiful
>most practical
>non meme

>>1439086
>>1439090

I like sabres as well, whether they have only a minimal curve or a more substantial one, but personally it bugs me (even though it's even experts do that) that single-edged swords that are just tiny little bit curved (like in that picture, even katanas are more curved) are lumped with properly curved sabers, or worse yet sometimes 100% straight swords are called sabers just because of the hilt type.

>>1439401
nobody knows. they might be, but it's just as possible that they've evolved completely separately since it's practical and pretty universal design.

File: dane-8[1].jpg (43KB, 432x313px) Image search: [Google]

43KB, 432x313px

>>1438843
>What makes a sword look cool/beautiful or ugly, in your opinion?
Longer swords look best to me. Two handers like the danish proto-zweihander with that long ass hilt make my dick hard. I don't really like complex hilts, a handguard is fine but a basket tends to be too much. It helps that you can't really have basket hilted two handers.
Shit on the blade looks ugly. Those pseudo handguards on swords meant for putting one hand on the blade are ugly, and even uglier are "flaming" blades.

>>1439353
Do knives count as swords?

File: sabre.jpg (64KB, 800x800px) Image search: [Google]

64KB, 800x800px

>>1439090
>>1439409

Compare that saber, this saber and a straight backsword. The "real" saber with the substantial curve, of course.

>>1439437
WTF, a sentence disappeared somewhere. I meant to ask rhetorically, which weapon is the outlier.

>>1439429
if they're long enough

File: 8198662015_7ca951b224_b.jpg (574KB, 1024x683px) Image search: [Google]

574KB, 1024x683px

>>1439403
That sabre is actually two-handed, it's the size of a longsword.

I also like the plain arming sword look.

>>1439347
>posts his saber
>doesn't talk about it
>doesn't explain whether you collect, hema, re-enact or so on
Wew lad. You don't even deserve the (you)

>>1439467
Eh. I'd prefer a different approach to the leather. Like having it wrap straight across using bare stitching to hold it on rather than wrapping the leather around it in thin strips.
Plus the depression on the blade is a little too pronounced for my taste.

Otherwise yeah, I love that style of sword.

What kind of swords did the Romans/ Byzantines use after the Gladius and the Spatha?

>>1439628
more spathas

File: zweihänder landsknechte.jpg (24KB, 480x360px) Image search: [Google]

24KB, 480x360px

Not a huge fan of most two-handers, but this at least looks gorgeus.

>>1439954

that's just a table leg with a blade at the end

File: katzbalger-1.jpg (97KB, 802x600px) Image search: [Google]

97KB, 802x600px

I'm a fan of heavy chopping swords.

>>1438976
dats tite

>>1439070
how many people alive do you think have, you retard?

>>1439070
>you've never done any of that
You're right, he probably wasn't a Roman Legionnaire!
HOW OBSERVANT OF YOU

File: grosses_messer.jpg (154KB, 763x800px) Image search: [Google]

154KB, 763x800px

>>1439429
no

this is a knife

>>1440737
That is ugly as sin.

That's a sword a mother couldn't love.

That sword was made from iron that came out of the ugly mountain; forged with an ugly hammer and then to add insult to injury, someone screwed a cast iron doorknob to the base of the hilt.

>>1439429
I believe messers are technically very log knives

>>1441197
Messers are literally knives

File: Kaskara.jpg (28KB, 600x380px) Image search: [Google]

28KB, 600x380px

>>1438843
In fairness, the gladius was just a typical standard issue weapon for a professional soldier, rather than a member of some sort of warrior caste.

pic related is of a sword belonging to a warrior caste, it's a Sudanese Kaskara. I like weaponry with engravings on the blade as well as hilts with engravings, it just makes the sword more interesting and, in a way, mysterious.

Does this make me gay?

(more of the sword)
https://www.antiqueswords.com/product/BQ2289/A-Fine-19th-Century-Mahdist-Revolt-Period-Sudanese-Kaskara.html

>>1441192
>That is ugly as sin.

I like it. It's a big cleaver. It doesn't have to look elegant. It has its own charm.

File: Kaskara2.jpg (100KB, 800x534px) Image search: [Google]

100KB, 800x534px

>>1441254
more of the same

http://sword-site.com/thread/917/sudanese-kaskara-19th-century

>>1441257
So very German.

File: 1463697332856.jpg (137KB, 800x600px) Image search: [Google]

137KB, 800x600px

>>1441184
>messers

My nigga.

>>1441277
>that filename
That is simultaneously the ugliest yet coolest sword yet.

File: macbeth-with-sword.jpg (2MB, 3840x5760px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 3840x5760px

Obviously being based on a Shakespearen play and being a stylized film, it's not going to be very historically accurate, but can anyone tell me what kind of sword Macbeth is supposed to be carrying on his back? It seems like he carries some kind of arming sword as his primary weapon, but there's a shorter sword he has on his back and sometimes uses as well. Is this a particular type of sword or just something made for the movie?

Also, semi-related question, but is there any evidence that people in Europe in the early to high middle ages actually carried swords on their backs opposed to simply on their side or on a horse/baggage train if they're too unwieldy to carry?

>>1441192
All the better for killing

this is a /k/ thread.

File: 29631f94ba2dcda9d6a71e489f7bc8e9.jpg (93KB, 564x804px) Image search: [Google]

93KB, 564x804px

>>1438843
Gladius is the best sword, faggot.

>stylish pommel
>wide to warn of its inherent deadliness
>long point for extra killyness

>>1440737
you'd sooner bludgeon them to death hah

>>1438888
The broad bit at the bottom half of small swords has always made me gag. eck.

File: 1796 Light Cavalry Saber.jpg (79KB, 1600x504px) Image search: [Google]

79KB, 1600x504px

>>1439086
>>1439090
>I like sexy sabre curves
>Doesnt post the sexiest curve of all, the 1796 LCS

File: 11091222_960558813962380_3205805623760328566_n.jpg (89KB, 600x709px) Image search: [Google]

89KB, 600x709px

>>1439334
It's pronounced "Kopis" you filthy Iberian scum

>>1441771
>iberian
>barbaric
they were the core of the roman army

File: Soup_Spoon.jpg (586KB, 1848x1419px) Image search: [Google]

586KB, 1848x1419px

>>1441184
no this is a knife

File: george_2229.gif (27KB, 250x206px) Image search: [Google]

27KB, 250x206px

>>1441777
>>1441184
and here it comes

>>1441375
no and carrying anything on back you want to fight with is dumb

>>1439167
That's beautiful

File: 1425008285853.jpg (21KB, 198x223px) Image search: [Google]

21KB, 198x223px

>>1441775
>not greek
>not roman

idk anon that sounds pretty barbaric to me

>>1441197
"messer" is a german word for kife of any length

>>1441771
>>1439334

it's pronounced machaera Hispana actually.

Falcata is a made up name

File: espada-ropera-guillaume.jpg (122KB, 712x800px) Image search: [Google]

122KB, 712x800px

>>1438942

the only thing that i don't like about this design is the odd, not very protective basket, otherwise, the long, needle-like blade of rapiers are my love.

you only need a little push.

File: okay cool i guess.gif (673KB, 371x270px) Image search: [Google]

673KB, 371x270px

>>1442093
It's pronounced "Kopis" you barbarian

...it's like you didn't even read my post, shitter

File: 56513e3948539_product_zoom.jpg (224KB, 1972x658px) Image search: [Google]

224KB, 1972x658px

I have a thing for Chinese sabers.

File: 14594283.jpg (126KB, 1707x1280px) Image search: [Google]

126KB, 1707x1280px

This is "shashka" (Шaшкa). It is used by cossack and circassian people. It is very light in weight, fairly long, very maneuverable because of handle of style type. It chopping weapon and can be used by stabbing too. One can also grip handle it in style like holding spear, "spearing" if necessary.

Shashka most best and versatile sword cavalry yes!

>>1442189

Is very sexy yes

>>1442145

No. Seneca said it.

>>1442189
Honestly the second sexiest weapon after>>1442176.

File: 1428624191238.jpg (7KB, 217x204px) Image search: [Google]

7KB, 217x204px

>>1442203

...Seneca must be a stealth-barbarian, it's clearly pronounced "Kopis"

File: deargod.jpg (12KB, 200x200px) Image search: [Google]

12KB, 200x200px

>>1438843
>been to the Wallace collection this weekend
>spent hours in the armoury
>spent a nother few houndred £ in the bookshop
>see this thead

>>1439628

They used long spathas, somewhat similar to longswords. They generally used them one-handed with large shields and spears.

No estoc? Shame on y'all.

>>1440737

It looks nice but the blade looks blunt as fuck.

>>1442247

You could have bought an actual sword for that money.

>>1442268
If they used them generally one-handed with shields, how were they similar to longswords? Or are you using D&D terminology?

>>1442279

Longswords can be used with one hand. The Normans used one-handed longswords with kite shields.

>>1442286
Sure they can, but they are primarily meant for two-handed use. If they used them mostly in one hand then why use longswords, rather than swords specifically designed for one-handed use? Longswords are primarily defined by the longer handle, although the blades are typically longer as well.

>>1442312

I didn't say it was a longsword, I said it was similar to a longsword. The blade and handles on later spathas were longer.

>>1442278
I have about 2 dozen swords, but literature on antique arms is fuck expensive, and it only goes up in price. I got books which I paid £90 for and now go for £1200. Wouldn't sell them, they are invaluable if you are into collecting.

>>1442286
>one-handed longswords
There is no such thing darling, the definition of a longsword is that it has a handle for two hands, blade-length is not that important.

>>1442323
>the definition of a longsword is that it has a handle for two hands, blade-length is not that important.

Yeah, longswords really should be called "longhandlers".

File: Nodachi Magara Naotaka.jpg (75KB, 510x290px) Image search: [Google]

75KB, 510x290px

>>1442189
Has a beautiful curve.
I think Shashka and szabla are more pracrical than katanas in mounted combat.

When it comes to weapon combinations, I find rapier and dagger very cool and aesthetic. Two cut & thrust swords looks nice as well, but two rapiers on the other hand looks really stupid for some reason.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dvkjp_ApbM

File: 8682320_1.jpg (22KB, 1024x341px) Image search: [Google]

22KB, 1024x341px

Literally the prettiest sword

File: img-3546283-1-templ_schiavona06_s.jpg (46KB, 600x400px) Image search: [Google]

46KB, 600x400px

>>1442563
>implying a Schiavona is not sexier in every single aspect

File: folded 6000 trillion times.jpg (112KB, 800x600px) Image search: [Google]

112KB, 800x600px

>>1442469
>that katana

Looks like even ancient Japan had edgelords.

>>1442516
Two swords in general is a ridiculous idea, It's actually really hard to coordinate your hands independetly. Someone with just one sword could probably beat one of them.

spatha > gladius

>>1443086
Yeah like with sword and buckler, you must be super duper ambidexterous to make it work.... not. Parrying with your off-hand is not that complicated. Whether it has any significant advantages over sword and buckler/shield is a more complex question, but this "using two swords is super hard" meme needs to die.

>>1443078
Not a Katana, a Nodachi

File: d&d weapons.jpg (209KB, 1877x1452px) Image search: [Google]

209KB, 1877x1452px

"Rapier", lol.

>>1438843
Someone please answer this
I love Rome and I'm a huge republiboo, but I have no idea why the gladius is so wide. If you intend it as a stabbing weapon, wouldn't you want more of a thinner rapier like sword? The more surface area a sword is covering and the more mass it's interacting with would make it terrible for piercing wouldn't it? Could it have been the metal they were working with?

>>1443240
>best 1v1 mellee weapon ever
>lol
Yeah sure mate.
>those flails
>war hammer
>katar
>sickle
Get OUT

>>1443295
Well gladius does have a pointy tip which is the most important thing for a thrusting sword I think, and thrust from a wider blade does cause a wider wound.

There's always the possibility that gladius was often used for cutting as well.

Not that I really know anything about this, just speculating...

>>1443295
Short, broad blades are easier to manufacture than long slim blades, given the metallurgy at the time it was the logical consequence. It is even questionable if they where hardenend steel or just iron.
Also, short blades work well with long shields.

>>1443302
Lol was meant for the "rapier" in that picture, which looks like some kind of sabre. It actually has a wider blade than the scimitar in that picture.

File: checkest thou them.png (59KB, 170x170px) Image search: [Google]

59KB, 170x170px

>>1443322

File: image.jpg (82KB, 440x470px) Image search: [Google]

82KB, 440x470px

>>1443377
Is this a historical get thread now?

>>1443389
Not really, just had to remark on the descending triple dubs

>>1443302
Montante/zweihänder is probably better 1v1 weapon than rapier though. Or any polearm.

>>1442323
You better take a photo nigger.

>>1443371
whoops

>>1444352
Nah. Rapiers will guarantee a kill at least, even if you die along with it. Spears and pole arms are better in groups.

>>1442323
Which books do you have?

>>1445661
I think a polearm in capable hands would take a rapier, or most swords apart, even in a dueling format

>>1445673
They did most of the time. I've seen examples thrown around of quarter staves winning duels against swords as well as bo staves against nip katana.

Thing is though, the issue with the rapier isn't landing a hit it's coming out alive. So, worst case scenario you both die best case you win. If you allow companion weapons like bucklers and daggers, rapiers become even more efficient on top of that.

>>1445661
>Nah. Rapiers will guarantee a kill at least, even if you die along with it. Spears and pole arms are better in groups.

Rapier's great advantage against most swords in 1v1 is reach. Against polearms on the other hand it has a massive disadvantage in terms of reach. What advantage do you think rapier has against polearms? Its feeble cutting ability? A spear can be used as a bludgeoning weapon past the point but more importanlty can be retracted easily when the rapierist comes close.

If rapier has the advantage against swords shorter than it because of its reach yet isn't at severe disadvantage against much much longer spears we have a serious paradox here.

>>1445691
>If you allow companion weapons like bucklers and daggers, rapiers become even more efficient on top of that.

The problem with rapier and buckler, though pretty good combination, is that the opponent can get really aggressive when he gets close because neither buckler or rapier are much of a threat. The problem with rapier and dagger is that it doesn't have a very secure defense against powerful blows. Parrying the afterblow of a longsword with a dagger while thrusting with the rapier doesn't seem very safe to me.

Now rapier in the dominant hand and a dagger and a buckler both in the off hand, as it was sometimes done, seems like a killer combo with rapier against most sidearms to me. Polearms still though would have the advantage though.

>>1445661
>Which books do you have?
Several dozens, and most of them are in German and for very specific topics.
If you look for a good starters book in English that doesn't cost and arm and a leg, try A Glossary of the Construction, Decoration and Use of Arms and Armor: in All Countries and in All Times by George Cameron Stone, it is an almanach for pretty much every weapon ever, make your way from there.

>>1446865
This sounds like great advice. Thanks man, I'll look into it.

File: Bayerisches Nationalmuseum Munich Sword, type XVIIIb Oakeshott RMS Page191.jpg (275KB, 1024x1280px) Image search: [Google]

275KB, 1024x1280px

Geometric Proportion underpinning its design

File: 12891097_455308047992397_5198760704449596599_o.jpg (135KB, 1299x2048px) Image search: [Google]

135KB, 1299x2048px

and examples of this. >>1448979

>>1438976
These don't get enough credit.

They have the utilitarianism of the Chinese jian and the elegant craftsmanship of the Japanese katana.

Beautiful swords.

File: 05_5828_4021_100.jpg (310KB, 2000x2000px) Image search: [Google]

310KB, 2000x2000px

>>1449280

wrong pic

>>1439334
Thicc

File: LS010_2_l.jpg (891KB, 4061x1162px) Image search: [Google]

891KB, 4061x1162px

simple and good looking

>>1443377
AbsolutelySATANIC.tapestry

File: historically accurate macauahutls.jpg (350KB, 2304x1296px) Image search: [Google]

350KB, 2304x1296px

What is /his/'s consensus on macuahuitls or Macana in general?

Swords? Clubs? Both? Niether?

>>1450732
>serated blades
More like saw'ds am I right? But seriously, pretty fucking brutal and effective.

>>1450732
>Swords? Clubs? Both? Niether?

they're hard to put in a specific category, l guess they're both kinda? idk

l really like em though, and they mess you up big time. though obviously its a whole lot more brittle, the obsidian blades can be a whole lot sharper than steel

>>1450732
Hard to tell. The wooden side was used as a blunt weapon to incapacitate while the obsidian edge was sharp enough to tear apart through the cotton gambeson. If the obsidian broke the shards could remain in the tissues and restrain movement.
I guess it belongs to its own category since it's designed to knock off while still being able to kill if needed.

File: Cutlass_pistol_on_display_at_Salem_Pirate_Museum%2C_Massachusetts.jpg (42KB, 500x375px) Image search: [Google]

42KB, 500x375px

>no mention of Cutlasses ITT
>not having a gun on your sword

File: p1011646.jpg (107KB, 611x458px) Image search: [Google]

107KB, 611x458px

Beautiful simplicity.

File: roman-sword-types.jpg (11KB, 400x200px) Image search: [Google]

11KB, 400x200px

>>1438843
>posting the worst Gladius type

>>1438966
>>1448990
I hate the design of
a) triangular late medieval thrusting swords (XV)
b) tacky tiny smallswords, swords are supposed to be a weapon, not fucking accessories

>>1442093
if you are a smug latin then yes

>>1442145
if you are an ass ramming greek then yes

File: 75c15b9f90e1266e6f2682f76df1e4ae.jpg (51KB, 736x439px) Image search: [Google]

51KB, 736x439px

>>1443104
>>1443078
>>1442469


for when you need to slice 20 peasants at once

File: CfqYW4C.jpg (154KB, 600x511px) Image search: [Google]

154KB, 600x511px

>>1450732
They be cool

after all its hard to find something sharper then obsidian

File: bushiwithOdachi.png (640KB, 461x746px) Image search: [Google]

640KB, 461x746px

>>1453549
They were for armored fighting

File: Goujian Sword.jpg (60KB, 1024x768px) Image search: [Google]

60KB, 1024x768px

>>1438843
I like all swords in general but in terms of AESTHETICs the Sword of King Goujian of Yue from the Chinese Warring States is my fave.

>>1453609

I was gonna post that exact one. Main thing I love is that it's such a lucky find to have a sword more than 2000 years old in such good condition.

>>1453609
>>1453925
Its fake niggas. The chinese government fake so much.

>>1453946

Of course they fake stuff, but I haven't seen anyone offer proof yet that this is fake.

>>1439111

The gladius were designed taking hispanian swords as a model.

>>1453549
That's as oversized as weapons in Monster Hunter.

>>1454072
That example is most likely a votive blade for a shrine. but there are records of very long nodachi

Does anyone have any particular rapier preference. I might be getting one custom made and I'd love some ideas.

>>1443240
> dire flail

jesus fucking christ