Why did Teddy Roosevelt send a bunch of obsolete battleships

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>>1427331
because it was aesthetic as fuck and also
M A H A N
A
H
A
N

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>>1427331
They "broke down" because congress refused to give him the proper funding for the fleet's repair and fuel.

Once they did break down, it basically made congress do what Teddy wanted them to all along: pay up. Despite breaking down it also sent a message that Teddy wanted the world to know.

That message was that the United States of America had a presence in the Pacific. Meiji Japan, Russia, the British Empire, and many others all saw as Teddy Roosevelt moved the fleet well outside of what the world perceived to be the United States.

The white paint gave the symbol of peace though, and it only got a rise out of foreign politicians. Civilians all came out in number to witness it.

I like the move overall... just a dick move because if Obama did that today he'd be impeached

>>1427331
He was extending the US's power and trying to show the rest of the world they were ready to liberate at a moment's notice

>>1427667
>just a dick move because if Obama did that today he'd be impeached
Wut. American fleets visit ports all over the world for no other reason than they can a lot of the time. That interjection is retarded and you're equally retarded for even implying it.

t. Navyfag

>>1427667
>be American hero
>completely kill the original American idea of non-interventionism

>>1427732
The idea had been dead since the Monroe Doctrine existed, don't be ridiculous.
The last president to seek non intervention was Thomas Jefferson. Everyone else looked to expand borders, write treaties and get involved in world affairs.

>>1427732
>completely kill the original American idea of non-interventionism
>Who is Monroe
>Who is James K. Polk

>>1427725

Not him, obviously, but I think he meant the gamesmanship that went on between Teddy and Congress, of leaving the fleet stranded and daring the House to not fork over the money he needed to bring them home.

>>1430006
Except Obama plays chicken with the House every time the debt ceiling needs to be raised.

>>1427732
Isolationism was already a meme by the 1700s

>>1427741
>The last president to seek non intervention was Thomas Jefferson
>What is the Louisiana Purchase?
>What are the Barbary Wars?

>>1430006
Except the current Congress would never even consider withholding military funding. Even during the whole fight over Libya, they never entertained the idea if cutting the operational budget until we were forced to withdraw

>>1427732
Isolationism is a lie Americans tell to themselves.

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>>1427331

The US navy learned a lot from that experiment which resulted in the creation of actually-good warships later on.

>>1431934
Eh, there are benefits to delaying entry into whatever major wars break out, dictating the terms of the peace, and lounging atop the new world order with the Eternal Anglo on a short leash.

Isolationism just means picking winners.

>>1427331
>embarrass the country by being barely seaworthy and breaking down?
They were still more seaworthy than the Russian fleet of that era :^)

>>1432014
Anyone have the screencap detailing the hilarity of the Russian fleet sailing around the world only to be smacked at Tsushima? I thought I'd saved it but apparently didn't.

>>1432014
>we came in second in the special olympics!
Well that's nice isn't it.

>>1432045
if you want to use a sports movie analogy, it would be more like an underdog athlete getting injured before the big game, and then doing a training montage, and then coming at the last second to pull the team to victory.

>>1427331

"Obsolete" or not, it was still the most powerful naval force in the world at the time.

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>>1432054
Not even a self-hating American, but Britain had already launched the Dreadnought by this point.

>>1432062

The dreadnought may have been the most advanced for its day but it still would have had a lot of trouble trying to take on that many ships at once.

>>1432067
The British Navy had more than just a single dreadnought

Brb just playing Rule the Waves

>>1432074
The Great White Fleet's circumnavigation was from 1907 to 1909. For most of that time Britain had only a single dreadnought, the HMS Dreadnought herself. The second British dreadnought, HMS Bellerophon was commissioned on February 20, 1909, a mere TWO DAYS before the Great White Fleet finished its circumnavigation. The HMS Dreadnought would likely not make a major difference in a battle between the Royal Navy and the USN, as her speed advantage would be negated unless she operated independently from the other RN battleships. However, the RN in general would still probably have an advantage.

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>>1432042

>>1432054
Britain had like twice as many battleships.

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>>1432151
Also this one

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>>1432054
>"Obsolete" or not, it was still the most powerful naval force in the world at the time.
wew

>>1432151
>>1432980
Sounds like Tintin

>>1431901
so he's right then you moron

>>1433755
Hahaha! It does sound a lot like tin tin actually

>>1432150
however at this time the RN also had more predreadnoughts than the US and better ones

>>1427331
That "Obsolete Navy" BTFO the Spanish Navy in Manila Bay, whose only casualty was a fag overcome by tropical heatstroke.

>>1434544
yeah, not actually a great boast, spain hadnt been a major power since before napoleon, and the spanish fleet in manila was largely untrained new recruits

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>>1432054
>>1432067
>>1432150
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>1434918
British "dreadnoughts" were 16th century galleys though so it doesn't fucking count. Only US of A could afford all-steel modern dreadnoughts, the rest of those poorfags couldn't.

>>1434918
>b-but the RN could have totally BTFO the Great White Fleet if only their ships could travel six years back in time!

>>1434931
You're thinking of the Spanish.

>>1435027
>b-but the RN could have totally BTFO the Great White Fleet if only their ships could travel six years back in time!
>RN pre-dreadnaughts (i.e. ships that stopped being built after 1906): 40
>USN pre-dreadnaughts: 23

Lets not even begin to talk about protected cruisers, destroyers and torpedo boats.

>>1434544
Nigga the Spic Fleet in Manila had ships contemporaneous with US Civil War times.

>>1435027
no, the RN could have kicked the USN until around the late 20s early 30s.

one of the great controversies about building dreadnought at the time it was laid down was that it would render all of britains predreadnoughts obsolete and britain at that time had nearly twice as many as any other navy so had potentially more to lose by reseting the slate on a naval arms race.

eventually the argument for building dreadnought proved stronger and the new race began, that argument boiled down to 'we know its possible, we know that such a ship would be a major game changer, lets build one before anyone else does and get a head start on the coming race

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>>1434918
American designs were shit until the Standards came - everything after that is ton for ton better than any British ship, at least in my opinion.

The cage masts are garbage though. Ugh.

>>1435202
ton for ton no contemporary was going to beat a QE that includes the standards

>>1435956
And why is that? Is that because the standards have bigger guns and more armor?

>>1436109
only the colorados had bigger guns, and they were several thousand tons heavier, and at least 4 knots slower

ton for ton inferior.

>>1436143
>moving goalposts

>>1436143
Colorado class displaced less than QE at full load. And it made up for its slightly slower speed by having twice as much range.

>>1436156
and less effective gunpower as it had a slower rate of fire

32'600 tons standard for colorado, 27'500 for a QE at standard load at time of building

>>1436152
he stated that ton for ton the standards were better than any british battleship, pointed out that ton for ton the queen eliabeth class can be argued to be superior to the best of the standards and certainly is superior to the rest of the standards.

ton for ton is in the first post of the discussion, hardly moving the goalpost

>>1436215
You do realize standard load is different for each navy, right? and that it was manipulated to make boats appear lighter?

>hardly moving the goalpost
Oh really?
>ton for ton stronger than standards
>except colorado class doesn't count
>also speed suddenly matters
>also we'll use "standard" load because at full load QE class is several thousand tons heavier than the superior Colorados
ok sempai

>>1436235
speed matters, as does gunpower, in which the QE has higher sustained fire and higher throw weight per minute, as well as better secondary batteries, if we want a slower ship that beats the standards then the british nelsons match them in speed but have more guns and better armor as well as better secondary batteries and AA

>>1436269
Go to any place that seriously discuss battleships and they'll have a word or two for you.

>>1436235
>speed doesn't matter
wew

>>1437181
>range doesn't matter
wew

>>1427331
To impress the world; but also demonstrate design flaws, of each ship class, to the naval brass themselves. You fucking retard

>>1437217
Range doesn't really matter much in terms of performance because of coaling stations and resupply ships.

>>1437517

Not even the guy you're arguing with, but tell that to the HSF of WW1.

>>1437517
Range matters a lot.

It may not have mattered to the RN but USN ships were made in mind to be able to sail long distances like in the Pacific.

>>1437217
When did I say that? Combat speed and strategic range isn't a binary choice.

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>she never got to kill Japs
Feels bad man

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>>1432054

>>1434918
fuck britain that is a lot of boats

>>1427331
>embarrass the country
i don't understand the historically illiterate and why they shitpost here