So you guys like to make fun of HRE, but was Byzantine Empire

>>1180867
of notice to who

>>1180867
>besides not paying debts?
I want Enrico Schlomonito to take his fallacies and leave.

>>1180867
Depends a lot on when you consider them to start being Byzantines.

>>1180867
They lasted a long time. Decent amount of intellectuals and had a decent army for most of its existence. Even had some good military accomplishments with Justinian but that's about it. They weren't nearly as good as the United Roman Empire

>>1180867
In the time they existed, they were westerners and western europe was a backward ISIS like shithole. there are documents describing the crusaders coming to the byzantines "one could smell them from miles away".

The "Byzantines" were actual Romans. There is no break in continuity from the Roman Empire towards the Byzantine Empire. It's the same state.

Also, they achieved plenty in regards to art, religion, somewhat science and they civilised and Christianised the Slavs.

>>1181241
>western europe was a backward ISIS like shithole
lmao, seriously?

>>1180867
great architecture like hagia sophia, cool icons, macedonian renaissance, preserved classic texts and wrote some cool new stuff too like digenis akritas or belthandros and chrysantza, great music, were rich and cultured and were the center of christianity for centuries

so yeah they were pretty noteworhy

Fuck off, Enrico.

>>1181512
>Venetians were the only people in the West that liked byzantium

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I'm gonna use this thread rather than starting my own:

I like the Byzantines but never really 'studied' them. Most of my knowledge is second hand from videogames/discussions on /his/. Is there any particular book that offers a good survey of the Byzantine empire?
Google pulled this up, but judging by the subtitle this book must trigger a lot of /his/torians, so are there good alternatives?

The Byzantine Empire was a fallen empire, in constant decline and plagued by internal conflicts, but they were still a formidable opponent and very wealthy.
The >H>R>E wasn't even an Empire to begin with so it couldn't be fallen, and the fractured nature of it made it so it was easy to invade compared to any other Kingdom comparable in size to it. It's fractured nature and >krauts made it a heresy hot spot which further divided it and the constant internal war prevented any meaningful development which means that even thought the Kaiser had many expensive things, the >H>R>E was not wealthy.

For Greeks paying debts is a HUGE achievement!

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>>1180867

>Did they achieve anything worthy of notice, besides not paying debts?


1.Survive for more than 1000 years (something the eternal kraut Shitler failed miserably to accomplish lol)

2. Collect and preserve all of the current surviving Attic tragedy and ancient Greek philosophy (The Arabs only translated Aristotle and Ptolemy)

3. Manage not kill and persecute the Jews when things were going badly, and actually manage to integrate them.

4. Codex Justinianus, the first collection of codified law.

5. Have a literacy level of 20% if both male and female demographics, with secular education that wasn't confined in the monasteries.

6. Be an actual multi-ethnic empire were any minority,not just greeks, could achieve the status of emperor as was the case in the Roman empire.

7.Stop the spread of Islam into Europe for more than 800 years.

8. Be an actual centralized state ruled by institutions and bureaucratic officials, and not a feudalist shithole ruled by warlords like the Frankish empire was.

9.Actually kick start the enlightenment in Italy by translating Greek texts and giving them Neo-Platonic philosophy, helping start the humanism of Petrarch and Mirandola.

10. Not be cucked by the church and the Pope that kept Western Europe in dogmatism and religious oppression

11. Continue the study of science https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byzantine_science

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Byzantine_scholars

>>1181554

Also invented the Cyrillic alphabet that modern slavs use to this day.

>>1181554
IIRC, I thought there was some persecution against the Jews and heterodox Christians, except under the Apostate.

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>>1180867
The Byzantine empire is the sole reason the world is the way it is today.

For their entire history they acted as a bulwark protecting the developing Europe from the Turkish Muslim scourge.

Had the empire faltered, Europe would have been raped in its infancy and our world today wouldn't exist. The entire continent would be a desert and the people would all be illiterate Browns living in mud brick houses praying to Allah and fucking little boys and goats and beheading people.

Sot think about that you ingrates.

>>1181623
>wearing icons
FUCKING HERESY

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>You will never live in Constantinople in the 1100's

>You will never attend the hypodrome, argue with merchants if the holy spirit comes from the father or the son, fuck the best prostitutes in Europe, you will never study Plato with Greek scholars, you will never attend the 66 festivals and 27 feasts that happened every year, you will never walk in it's labyrinth like and elaborate gardens, you will ever participate in greco-roman fighting in the palestra.

Just dims senpaitachi

>>1181623
The empire did Falter and that didnt happen because POLAND

>>1181623
What are you talking about? They needed to ask western Europe for help since as early as 1096 and had the nerve to complain about the franks being rude.

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>>1180867
Looked cool.

Very oriental, but at the same time following a lot of the same motifs and themes (in other words, Jesus) as contemporary western society. And even though it was all very flashy and elaborate it doesn't come off as gaudy like early medieval western art and regalia.

Also being Roman is instant swag.

>>1181647
Austria managed to resist the turk at least two times without Poland and would probably have resisted a third, to be honest.

>>1181613

The Jews were never persecuted or massacred in the Empire, and certainly they were never killed en mass like in Western Europe during the middle-ages.

Certainly there were some oppressive laws against them, such as heavier taxation and some brief periods of ban of worship, but these stopped when the emperor ennacting such policies died.

The reason why Jews were better integrated in Byzantium was that Jews were not confined to money lending, every regular citizen could lend money to one another.

>>1181528
John Julius Norwich's three volume history of Byzantium. I hope you have a Kindle though, cause if you don't, I wish you all the luck in finding any physical copies.

>>1181623
I think you are talking about Holy Roman Empire and Austria.
Byzantine Empire was the one who enabled the rise of Islam in the first place, by waging petty wars with Persians.

>>1181653
>Roman
you mean Greek?

>>1181241
>there are documents describing the crusaders coming to the byzantines "one could smell them from miles away".
To be honest all armies probably smelled like that when marching for weeks.

>>1181589
>Also invented the Cyrillic alphabet that modern slavs use to this day.
I'll cut your head off.

>>1181554
>Attic tragedy
There's an Anne Frank joke in there somewhere

>>1181589
>Also invented the Cyrillic alphabet that modern slavs use to this day.
You're thinking of the Glagolic. The Cyrillic was Bulgarian and only half of the Slavs use it.

>>1181808
>HREboo talking about petty wars
Like the thirty years war am I right

>>1181651
>As ''early'' as 1096

That means they fought off the Muslims from 610 to 1096 without aid. They were perfectly justified to be a bit pissed with the French, it's similar to the USA renaming itself ''The British Empire'', And Britain being pissed off about that.

>>1180875
it's "whom", you savage

>>1181623
Absurd notion. Byzantine Empire did not stopped Turkish aggression. Crusaders did, Mongols did stall it but the Roman Empire? No.

It was a fail after fail since Manzikert, with occasional victories that were soon rendered unimportant. Again Crusaders and Mongols did stopped Turks, far better than any Roman.

You can say it managed to halt arabic expansion, but thats not the same time when Turks arrived.

Russians and Austrians stopped the Turks, not Greeks.

>>1182290
>Russians and Austrians stopped the Turks, not Greeks.
>Russians

>>1181811
Greek Romans.

Double the swag.

>>1182290

You don't know shit, the Manuel Komnenos halted the Seljuks for more than 100 years. If the godless crusaders hadn't sacked Constantinople, Asia Minor would have remained christian and byzantine.

>>1182260
>That means they fought off the Muslims from 610 to 1096 without aid.

You mean they were conquered by the muslims despite having vastly superior ressources, numbers and technology and had to be saved by the Bulgars. How terrible at being "the bulkwark against islam" can you be that your enemies have to save you from the muslims?

>>1182308
Take a look at the history of Russo-Ottoman war before greentexting.

>>1182308
They completely ravaged the Ottoman Empire and would have ended them in the mid 19th if it wasn't for you meddling brits!

>>1182317
They gave in more than they hold. 4th crusade did damaged Constantinople beyond repair, But 1st crusade and the mongol invasion really pushed turks back

Also its is very very very I mean very ironic that you use Manuel as an example since he is responsible for this

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Myriokephalon

Basically it solidified the turkic hold in asia minor.

>>1182322
Yes, the first one was in 1568–70 (more than a century after the whole of the Balkans have been conquered by the Turks) and that war was at the Caspian sea.
It's time you stop believing retarded Russian myths.

>>1182329
Sure they did, buddy.

>>1182329
learn to read, faggot:
>>Russians and Austrians stopped the Turks, not Greeks.

>>1181529
>>H>R>E wasn't even an Empire to begin with
It was, but only to begin with.
>the fractured nature of it made it so it was easy to invade compared to any other Kingdom comparable in size to it.
Like that time when...
Napoleon invaded after it had been destroyed from the inside?

>>1181292
>Christianised the Slavs.
ok
>civilised
debatable

>>1182451
We're talking about the Balkan Slavs, not the Russian subhumans, you can't civilize those.

>>1181529
The HRE had only a few Invasions. Famously by the Hungary's Mattias Corvinus.

But generally most of Europe steered clear from it. Not because it was superpowerful, but because its a political mess.

>>1181623
>Protecting Europe.
Fun fact: The Barbarians for the Byzantines can be found in the West as well as the East.

>>1182317
Gotta love this Byzaboo revisionism
Fucking Greeks are at fault for the 4th Crusade and this is not up for debate

>>1181623

Yeah those damn inferior muslims

Winning and all

>>1181825
Underrated post.

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>>1181717

tfw I have physical copies

>>1181623
>snowniggers yet again saved by Greeks

When will they be grateful?

>>1181654
apart from the fact that Vienna would've fallen and the whole of Austria easily conquered.

>>1182290

They stopped arabic expansion but also seljuk turks, and even when they were in shambles still managed to be a pain in the ass for the Turks. All while being despised by the rest of Europe when not directly wrecked by yuro christians.

Later on it would be Austria and Russia the ones tasked with stopping the.Turks. And again, history repeats itself and you have French, Swedes and Prussians systematically siding and shilling for the Turks against Austria/Hungary/Russia and the balkan fags trying to free themselves from kebab.

>>1182290

Omar get the fuck off of /his/

>>1184159
Seljuks got nuked by the Mongols.

Byzzies barely did anything.

>>1184194

The eastern romans allied with the mongols and directed them toward nuking the seljuks

>>1181528

History of the Byzantine Empire by Alexander A. Vasiliev

>>1181479
Think about the crusades man
>we will put the infidels on their knees and take back what is ours. from the river to the sea, Jerusalem will be free.
>DEUS VULT! DEUS VULT!
>peasants with nothing to live for travel to the Middle East and martyr themselves for their God

>>1182371
Since Charlemagne, it was always broken, constant war among the Dukes and counties.

>>1181808
>By Waging wars with Persians

The fucking Seljuk invasion ater the 4th Crusade was what got them.

>>1181623
t. Alberto Barbossa

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>>1181623
>you will never own a Justinian handbag

>>1184277
>implying that all crusaders were peasants

>>1181479
>lmao, seriously?
yep, that is true. it's also the reason slavs like serbs, bulgarians and russians became orthodox. it was a far more developed world then than in western europe led by ransacked italy goverened by the germanic tribes living in literal shit.

>>1180867

"[The Byzantine Empire] was in a condition of perpetual insecurity. Its general aspect presents a disgusting picture of imbecility; wretched, nay, insane passions, stifle the growth of all that is noble in thoughts, deeds, and persons. Rebellion on the part of generals, depositions of the Emperors by their means or through the intrigues of the courtiers, assassination or poisoning of the Emperors by their own wives and sons, women surrendering themselves to lusts and abominations of all kinds - such are the scenes which History here brings before us; till at last - about the middle of the fifteenth century (a.d. 1453) - the rotten edifice of the Eastern Empire crumbled in pieces before the might of the vigorous Turks." -- Hegel

Does that answer your question?

>>1181717
You can just buy physical copies from Amazon, I did that not too long ago.