Why do atheists hate the Son of God? What did He ever do wrong?

Stirring up insubordination in the empire, for one.

>>1008759
Well, that Whore of Babylon got blown the fuck out.

>>1008754
well no. he couldn't have done anything wrong if he never existed

Claim he was God. Which is against what the bible says

>>1008754
I hate all Analbasterds, and Jesus was by far the most influential Shitling of all time.

>>1009022
Nice meme.

http://storage.cloversites.com/fcfgroups/documents/Why%20We%20Believe%207.pdf

>>1009059
weak bait

>>1009208
?

>>1008754
Why would I hate Jesus? It's just the theology that is irritating.

>>1008754
How can you hate someone when you do neither believe he existed nor was the son of god nor do really care?
It is like saying grown ups hate the easter bunny.

>>1009217
Being religious and believing a person existed are two different things.

>>1009221
So you do hate on the easter bunny then? What about Santa Claus?

>>1009217
>neither believe he existed
>>1009202

>>1009229
That is neither the topic of the thread, nor implied anywhere. Neither would that be mutually exclusive to hating Jesus

>>1009237
Still just because you do not believe a fairy tale does not imply you are a hater, just that you do not believe in fairy tales.
I do not believe in Zeus or Thor either, never figured this makes me hating them.

>>1009217
Did the world start when you were born?

>>1009260
Oh nvm, I read this as
>why did jews hate jesus
My bad

>>1009262
No, I guess it was a couple billion years before me.

>>1009272
Oh they totally should, there is a lot of bad Torah fan fiction going on because of him.

>>1009237
it's called a comparison. how thick is your skull?

>>1009288
It's really not.

>>1009285

As a Jew, my single biggest beef with Christianity is this insane insistence that we can't read our own holy books and don't understand our own religion, mostly on the say so of a number of epistles from a guy who clearly conflates a number of very, very different concepts. (Although, to be fair, this is more Paul-hate than Jesus-hate)

>>1009288
Give him a break, will ya, he has apologized and is obviously stoned.

>>1009303
Guess that invisible sky daddy monotheism thingey of yours got a bit out of hand.

Why are some of us chosen?

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>>1009260
>le fairy tale meme
inb4 le epic flying spaghetti monster xD

>>1009318
Hey, I do not believe in that either, but the pirate regalia are fucking tempting.

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>>1009309
>sky daddy

>>1008754
they hate christ because christ's truth shows them the true terror of what there sins are.

Consider some of the most influential atheists.

Like richard carrier, a known polyamourous man-whore.

Or stephen hawking, who even in a wheelchair committed adultry on his patient and loving wife with a young nurse.

Or Sagan himself, a man of 3 wives and many mistresses.


Atheists deny god, for in doing so, they placate the burning truth of their own whorish nature.

>>1009328
Hmm, lets see, the majority of people on this world do not believe in either sky daddy at all or not in your special flavor of sky daddy. And the world keeps on turning. So yeah, pics or it never happened.

>>1009328
except mices do believe in owls and are afraid of them when they see them.

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>>1009338
>pics or it never happened
top cringe

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>>1009332
Now we are talking!

>>1009338
>the majority of people

>>1009309

Oh, most definitely. There's a reason we don't proselytize, see what shit gets let out of the bottle by accident? Imagine how bad it would be if we ran around trying to get everyone to do what we do. (I joke, I joke)

>>1009273
And why do you guess that?

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>>1009343
I got some bad news for you, Religion is losing its influence in society, and it does it fast. All trendlines are pointing down. Soon most of the developed world will have a irreligious majority and the religious influence will be near 0. A Heaven for atheists if I may say so.
Do not get me wrong, Religion will not die, it just becomes insignificant.

>>1009349
Because I payed attention at my geography class.

>>1009303

Romans 1
What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded. Just as it is written:

“God has given them a spirit of stupor,
Eyes that they should not see
And ears that they should not hear,
To this very day.”

And David says:

“Let their table become a snare and a trap,
A stumbling block and a recompense to them.
Let their eyes be darkened, so that they do not see,
And bow down their back always.”

Gee, I thought you said God couldn't or wouldn't do that, yet there it is, in your scriptures.

And you still don't believe.

Nor do you believe Jeremiah about the coming of a new covenant, unlike the old.

Has it ever crossed your mind that maybe YOU are the problem, and not Paul?

>>1009332
so what about all the christians who commit adultery...

>>1009303
>As a Jew

Ever kept a passover in Jerusalem, in the temple? No? Then you're out of the nation. So sorry.

Numbers 9:13 But the man who is clean and is not on a journey, and ceases to keep the Passover, that same person shall be cut off from among his people, because he did not bring the offering of the Lord at its appointed time; that man shall bear his sin.

>>1009363
Shall I make the Irons red hot so this ignorant heathen can feel the love of Jesus Christ?

>>1009312
God made us. God chose for Himself under the Old Covenant a people few in number and weak in arms, so that their victories would glorify God. And they did.

And under the New Covenant, God chose for Himself people who are zealous for good deeds. Christians.

And by "chose", I mean "chose those whom He knew would choose Him", as we are not on the same timeline as God. He sees the end from the beginning; we are barely conscious.

>>1009345
ok

Dawkins: another man of 3 wives

Douglas Adams: had an affair with a married woman; lived in sin with another woman, fucking others on and off the whole time, and finally married the one.

Marx: adulterously fucked his maid on the regular; had a bastard daughter in this way.

Christopher hitchens: twice married and a chronic alcoholic.


Again, they're a lot of sinners who seek justification without repentance due to the sheer terror of facing what scum they are.

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>>1009338
>pics or it never happened
Here you go lad.

>You just hate god
>You just want to keep sinning
>I can read your mind
>This armchair psychologist shit again
It's literally like listening to a broken record. Jeez, /his/, I thought we were past tired arguments and not learning. Guess not.

>>1009332
Yup. They deny the light because they prefer the darkness, because their hearts are dark, and their deeds are dark.

>>1009358
>Soon most of the developed world will have a irreligious majority
With muslims' numbers skyrocketing.

He's coming soon.

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>>1009332
>he thinks someone getting more pussy than him is an argument

>>1009303
Yo jewbro, imagine how hard I am laughing right now...
>>1009363
>>1009373

>>1009369
they admit that they're wrong, rather than self-justifying like dr.carrier, who makes a lifestyle of his whoredom.

>>1009360
Perhaps your English teacher could take a lesson from your Geography teacher, who apparently taught Geology instead.

>>1009338
>>1009379
#rekt

inb4 denial

>th-that doesn't count!!!1

>>1009378
Yes Baby, that eactly the fire and brimstone I missed so much with all this mainstream Christians!
Got any more dirty stories? I'm rock hard now!

>>1009363

I love Romans, especially Paul's little metaphor about the widow, you know, in the 8th chapter where he totally loses track of whether he's identifying the audience with the dead husband or the widow.

And once again, Psalms are POEMS, they're not prohpecy, they're not theology.

>Nor do you believe Jeremiah about the coming of a new covenant, unlike the old.

Since you know, he doesn't say that. At all.

>Has it ever crossed your mind that maybe YOU are the problem, and not Paul?

For a couple of seconds, but then the parts of my brain that actually reason things out kicked in. Now can you please go away, leatherhead? Adults are talking here.

>>1009371

Oh look, another idiot (or liekly the same idiot) who can't understand Jewish theology.

See that part about being clean? You might want to look up something called "Tamai mait", or "impurity of the dead". Everyone's got it these days, what with the only method of removing it being gone for literally millennia. But of course, one of Paul's biggest problems is his conflation of Tumah and sin, since he doesn't really understand what either are. If he was really a student of Gamaliel, he was in the special ed class.

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>>1009379

>>1009369
Sins forgiven at the cross, life resurrected in them to eternity, natural consequences of sin unavoidable, trust broken, etc. I don't know who told you Christians don't sin, but he was wrong. We're not perfect; we're forgiven, and alive. You're forgiven, but not yet alive.

>>1009379
Looks like my uncle Timmy. Why do you got a shirt with my uncle Timmy's face on it?

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>>1009379
>>1009395

>>1009378
They liked to party instead of sitting in a stuffy church and singing boring hymns. u mad?

>>1009392
>Got any more dirty stories?

I don't know any more atheists.

>>1009382
Only in brown countries, the first world has a pretty solid irreligious trend. Gotta be poorfag and uneducated to have a religious majority.

>>1009379
I see a man.

>>1009394
That you cannot follow Paul's writings says more about you than Paul.

That you think the bible is open for your dismissal as poetry is once again proof you do not believe Moses and the prophets, just as Paul said.

2 Corinthians 3
Therefore, since we have such hope, we use great boldness of speech— unlike Moses, who put a veil over his face so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the end of what was passing away. But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ. But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart. Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.

Hmmmm, Paul said the same thing from the OT as David did, and as the prophet did.

But you know better than those Jews, because you're Super Jew! Sans YHWH, sans temple, sans High Priest, sans animal sacrifices, sans atonement, sans everything else Paul had like being taught by Gamaliel.

Are you even kosher?

>>1009388
Geography was the moniker for Geology as well, in other words it was called "Erdkunde"

>>1009416
ecce homo!


kek

>>1009381
yup and thats why catholics try to hide child molesters and the duggars tried to hide their pedo son and pastors across the US sleep around on their wives with members of their congragation and the pastors daughter is often a nymphomaniac yup yup keep telling yourself these things keep telling trying to point out the spec in an athiests eye without looking at the fucking branch in you own

>>1009394
>he was really a student of Gamaliel

Oh, he was. He wrote about it in the Holy Bible.

>>1009387
so they admit they were wrong. so she was a bad girl. you gotta punish her for that. punish that bad girl

>>1009420
Oh, man, beat me to it. Well played.

Lads, I gotta go, it was good fun and I really enjoyed the discussion with you folks. I'll be seeing you the next time the Gallup polls come out and the first world became a little less religious again.
Till then.

>>1008754

I think Jesus was a pretty cool guy, eh beat death and doesn't afraid of anything.

>>1009396
you missed the point. the post i responded to was saying that athiests are atheists because they want to sin, but christians also sin like you've said. the only difference is that christians ask a god for forgiveness, the conduct more or less the same

>>1009426
...and that's why, as a good christian, I fuck her hard from behind with her prostrating before me in contrition.


And when I'm done, I ask "Do you believe my forgiveness is god's forgiveness?" And her: "Yes, dear sir"

And in this, as she believes, it is done unto her, and christ himself enforces that she sins no more.

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>>1009400
Your uncle Timmy is lucky to have Jesus Christ's facial features.

>>1009442
amen brother

>>1009417

>That you cannot follow Paul's writings says more about you than Paul.

No, I follow them just fine. Let's crack it open, shall we? Although I mis-wrote earlier, it's 7, not 8.

>Do you not know, brothers and sisters—for I am speaking to those who know the law—that the law has authority over someone only as long as that person lives? 2 For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law that binds her to him. 3 So then, if she has sexual relations with another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is released from that law and is not an adulteress if she marries another man. 4 So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God.

Which is his audience, the widow or the dead husband?

>That you think the bible is open for your dismissal as poetry is once again proof you do not believe Moses and the prophets, just as Paul said.

Except of course, that Psalms is a non-prophetic part, and David was never a prophet, which is why he always needs to have prophets hanging around to consult with God about the future or his own foulups.


>But you know better than those Jews, because you're Super Jew! Sans YHWH, sans temple, sans High Priest, sans animal sacrifices, sans atonement, sans everything else Paul had like being taught by Gamaliel.

Gamaliel didn't teach special ed. Paul was almost certainly a Hellenic Jew who hung out with Sadducees, not Pharisees. And while I certainly don't know more than actual scholars of the era, I'd wager I know more than random idiots of the era. I certainly know more than you.

And yes, I keep Kosher, as well as the other dietary laws that I doubt you have the discernment to tell the difference between that and Kashrut.

>>1009421
Yup. The Vatican is the most evil institution on earth.

>>1009440
Christians should know better than to ask for something that was already given to them 2000 years ago.

>>1009424

And I'm a rocket engineer with degrees from Cambridge, Harvard, and the University of Paris, I worked extensively on the New Horizons probe. Don't let the fact that I can't talk intelligably about orbital mechanics, gravitational slingshots, or rocket design fool you, I'm the best there is, because I wrote down a claim saying I am.

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>>1009416
>I see a man
...whose image was imprinted on a Shroud by divine means.

See >>1009445

>>1009449
>Which is his audience, the widow or the dead husband?

Amazing you can't grasp that concept. You kill a guy. They catch you. Trial is tomorrow. You kill yourself in jail.

Does the trial go forward?

Does the Law pursue dead men?

The audience is quite clearly people who are being told they are dead to the Law, as I am dead to the Law. I died in Christ Jesus, and He fulfilled the Law both ways the Law can be fulfilled. And as He is my High Priest, after an order far superior to the Levites, His sacrifice is not an annual event, but once and for all.

There is a ton of prophecy in the Psalms, especially in the 22nd. You running around saying what is prophecy and what is not is both arrogant and dismissive of the Holy Bible.

You don't know anything about Judaism, or you'd be a born again Christian.

>>1009458
Did you write that in the inerrant and Holy Bible? No? Then it has to be tested, and as a beginning test, I note that you are not a trustworthy person.

>>1009462

Note to Christians.

There is an atheist, a son of satan, who wants people to believe in Jesus Christ based on the fraudulent and anti-scriptural shroud of Turin. Do not engage, unless you want to eat copy pasta for a month.

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>>1009476
>atheist
What? I'm Catholic.
>fraudulent and anti-scriptural shroud of Turin
Nice try. Read this:
''A Clean Cloth'', What Greek Word Usage Tells Us about the Burial Wrappings of Jesus, Diana Fulbright, Director of Research, Shroud of Turin Center
https://www.shroud.com/pdfs/n62part7.pdf

Why does the face of the Lord make atheists and heretic proddies lose their minds?

Btw, tell me, what do you think of the Blessed Virgin Mary?

>>1009476
>believe in Jesus Christ based on
Not really. The Holy Shroud is simply actual physical evidence which atheists want you dimwit.

>>1009338
>pics or it never happened

>>1009494
>Catholic

As I stated, an atheist, and a son of satan.

>>1009509
Weak bait.

Tell me, what do you think of the Blessed Virgin Mary?

>>1009494
for fucks sake we've already had several threads where this was debunked and all you did was repeat the same shit over and over and over again so fuck off don't floud another thread!

>>1009467

>The audience is quite clearly people who are being told they are dead to the Law, as I am dead to the Law. I died in Christ Jesus, and He fulfilled the Law both ways the Law can be fulfilled. And as He is my High Priest, after an order far superior to the Levites, His sacrifice is not an annual event, but once and for all.


Which is why he talks about how the audience, like the widow, is now free to go to another! And once again, missing the ENTIRE point of the paschal sacrifice.

>There is a ton of prophecy in the Psalms, especially in the 22nd. You running around saying what is prophecy and what is not is both arrogant and dismissive of the Holy Bible.

And you know, actually discussed by theological experts, some of whom were prophets themselves. You do realize that there's a good chunk in there that isn't prophetic, right? Chronicles? Job? Ruth? The stuff that Solomon wrote? And no, there isn't prophecy in Psalms, which is why it's in KETUVIM and not NEVIIIM, they're writings, not prophecy.

>You don't know anything about Judaism, or you'd be a born again Christian.

I rest my case. This is why Christians are scum.

>>1009471

But anon, none of the New Testament is valid scripture. So it does need to be tested, and Paul's claims are laughably bad, most of them aren't even coherent.

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>>1009476
>Do not engage

>>1009525

shhhh. I want to watch the two retards go at it.

I am kinda a Christian but I get it like this
>You don't care about Jesus Christ? Why do you hate him so much??
>All homosexuals should be jailed and killed! God sent AIDs to kill homosexuals! SOdom and Gomorra best thing evar! What? I don't hate homosexuals, I love them, that's why I am saying this :DDDDD

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>>1009525
>this was debunked
What? Where? When? How? What's been debunked are the bogus radiocarbon tests which violated several protocols.

This paradigm assumes that the radiocarbonists’ claim that the Shroud of Turin is a 14th century forgery is correct. It is based on what that conclusion tells us about the forger. It tells us that:

1. The forger first painted the bloodstains before he painted the image.

2. The forger integrated forensic qualities to his image that would only be known 20th century science.

3. The forger duplicated blood flow patterns in perfect forensic agreement to blood flow from the wrists at 65� from vertical to suggest the exact crucifixion position of the arms.

4. The forger "painted" the blood flows with genuine group AB blood that he had "spiked" with excessive amounts of bilirubin since the forger knew that severe concussive scourging with a Roman flagrum would cause erythrocyte hemolysis and jaundice.

5. The forger "plotted" the scourge marks on the body of the "man in the shroud" to be consistent under forensic examination with two scourgers of varying height.

6. The forger also duplicated abrasion and compression marks on the scourge wounds of the shoulders to suggest to 20th century forensic examiners that the "man in the shroud" had carried a heavy weight following the scourging.

7. The forger, against all convention of medieval artistry, painted the body he was "hoaxing" as Jesus of Nazareth, nude to conform to genuine Roman crucifixions.

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>>1009525
>>1009571
8. The forger, as the forensic genius he was, illustrated the nails of crucifixion accurately through the wrists rather than the hands as in all other conventional medieval representations. He also took into account that the thumbs of a crucified victim would rotate inward as a result of median nerve damage as the nails passed through the spaces of Destot.

9. The forger was clever enough to "salt" the linen with the pollens of plants indigenous only to the environs of Jerusalem in anticipation of 20th century palynological analysis.

10. The forger was an artist who surpassed the talents of all known artists to the present day, being able to "paint" an anatomically and photographically perfect human image in a photographic negative manner, centuries before photography, and be able to do so without being able to check his work, close up, as he progressed.

11. The forger was able to paint this image with some unknown medium using an unknown technique, 30-40 feet away in order to discern the shadowy image as he continued.

12. The forger was clever enough to depict an adult with an unplaited pony-tail, sidelocks and a beard style consistent with a Jewish male of the 1st century.

13. The forger thought of such minute details as incorporating dirt from the bare feet of the "man in the shroud" consistent with the calcium carbonate soil of the environs of Jerusalem.

14. This forger was such an expert in 20th century biochemistry, medicine, forensic pathology and anatomy, botany, photography and 3-D computer analysis that he has foiled all the efforts of modern science. His unknown and historically unduplicated artistic technique surpasses all great historical artists, making the pale efforts of DaVinci, Michaelangelo, Raphael and Botticelli appear as infantile scribblings.

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>>1009525
>>1009571
>>1009575
It is an irrefutable fact that there is NO paint or pigment on the Shroud of Turin leaving the only explanation of the technique of the forger to have used "photography" to manufacture the relic in the THIRTEENTH CENTURY!! Some authors have gone so far as to suggest exactly that. This is patently absurd!

CONCLUSION:

The Shroud of Turin is a genuine artifact of a first century Roman crucifixion of an adult Jewish male. The radiocarbon dating placing the manufacture of the linen in the 14th century was flawed by extrinsic C14 accumulated over centuries of fungal growth, candle smoke and the intense heat of the fire of 1532. There is NO paint on the linen of the shroud and is not the artifice of a forger.

>>1009509
>>1009513
Well?

>>1009525
>don't floud another thread
Except I'm OP, little buddy.

>>1009571
>>1009575
In response to those facts atheists will pretend that a time-traveling genius with modern technology is responsible for that.

I love the shroud of turin so much, I've never seen something scaring non-believers away like that before, usually it's them who silence the believers (who usually make shitty arguments).

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>>1009645
It seems that there's really something special about the Holy Shroud...

>>1008754
>hate
Jesus seems like he was a cool guy. Just not some magic man's son.

>>1009513
That she had many sons and daughters after Jesus was born, died, and went to heaven like any other saved person. She is blessed because she was chosen to bear the Messiah, and she did so well.

She's dead, has no clue who you are, and has never heard from you.

>>1009526
Wow, you just refuse to believe.

Paul is not talking to the man or the woman, but to an entirely different group of people.

A married couple. Man dies. Wife remarries. Fine, no problem, no sin.

A married couple. Woman commits adultery. Sin, because the man to whom she made a blood covenant with is still alive.

It's the LAW that does not go after dead people, not the man or the woman. The LAW.

And again, as Jesus paid the sin debt of the world, humanity can enjoy the full propitiation of all sin. Even yours.

But you don't have a sin problem; you have a dead problem. You're dead, and don't know it. You lack the Holy Spirit of God living in you, resurrecting you to eternal life.

In order to regain that Holy Spirit that Adam lost, and that the second Adam made possible, you must confess out loud that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart God raised Him from the dead.

Do that, and you will be saved.

And then you will understand how the entire New Testament is not only scripture, but scriptures about a far better covenant than your ancestors violated.

>>1009580
>>1009669

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>>1009669
>she had many sons and daughters
Matthew chapter 12 uh?

'no'

You're the biblically illiterate pseudo-christian satanic protestant I talked to last time, aren't you?

>This biblical passage is often misinterpreted. Some have argued that it stands for the proposition that Jesus was making a comment which was intended to lessen the importance of his earthly mother. This "mother is unimportant" interpretation is textually inaccurate and theologically mistaken.

>It runs contrary to the biblical context of the encounter and rejects the consistent, unbroken Christian tradition. Such a misreading ascribes a minimalist role to Mary in the Christian revelation and consequently in the life of every Christian.

>More importantly, in so doing; it can also cause us to miss a profound truth concerning the Christian life and vocation. It can discourage us from digging deeper into the text and thereby grasping a profoundly important insight. This insight has great implications and can lead us to a deeper experience of the Christian life and vocation.

>I stand with the ancient Christian tradition, rooted in the patristic literature (writings of the early Church fathers). The opposite of this "mother is less important" claim is what is actually being revealed through these words and in this encounter. This passage reveals a framework for an authentically human and relational spirituality, a spirituality of communion. We are made members of the very family of God through Jesus Christ and His saving Incarnation.

>Through our Baptism, we are all invited into the very family of God. When we choose to be obedient to the will and the Word of God; we enter into an eternal relationship with God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. We actually become a part of the "family" of God; we become "mother" "sister" and "brother" to the Lord. We enter into "communion" with the Trinitarian God through Him.

(1/2)

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>>1009669
>>1009703
>This interchange was recorded for all time for a purpose. Through it, Jesus teaches us something about the interior meaning of our personal redemption, the redemption of the whole human race and the redemption of the entire created order. The message is simple but profound; God is a God of love and relationship. He has invited us into an intimate and eternal communion of love.

>"Behold your mother; behold your son". In His final act of Self-giving love, revealed for all eternity on Golgotha's Hill, Jesus actually elevated and expanded the importance of His mother and "brothers". We read about this encounter in the Gospel of St. John. Picture the poignant scene, right before He was to breathe His last breath:

>"Standing by the cross of Jesus were his mother and his mother's sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary of Magdala. When Jesus saw his mother and the disciple there whom he loved, he said to his mother, "Woman, behold, your son."Then he said to the disciple, "Behold, your mother." And from that hour the disciple took her into his home." (John 19:26-27).

If you want to (you should) read more:
http://www.catholic.org/homily/yearoffaith/story.php?id=51816

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>>1009669
Luke 1:48 - Mary prophesies that all generations shall call her blessed, as Catholics do in the "Hail Mary" prayer. What Protestant churches have existed in all generations (none), and how many of them call Mary blessed with special prayers and devotions?

Gal. 4:4 - God sent His Son, born of a woman, to redeem us. Mary is the woman with the redeemer. By calling Mary co-redemptrix, we are simply calling Mary "the woman with the redeemer." This is because "co" is from the Latin word "cum" which means "with." Therefore, "co-redemptrix" means "woman with the redeemer." Mary had a unique but subordinate role to Jesus in salvation.

Eph. 1:1; Phil. 1:1; Col. 1:2 - the word "saints" (in Hebrew "qaddiysh") means "holy" ones. So Mary is called Holy, the greatest Saint of all.

Luke 2:35 - Simeon prophesies that a sword would also pierce Mary's soul. Mary thus plays a very important role in our redemption. While Jesus' suffering was all that we needed for redemption, God desired Mary to participate on a subordinate level in her Son's suffering, just as he allows us to participate through our own sufferings.

Luke 2:19,51 - Mary kept in mind all these things as she pondered them in her heart. Catholics remember this by devoting themselves to Mary's Immaculate Heart and all the treasures and wisdom and knowledge contained therein.

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>>1009669
Tell me protestant heretic, what will you do when Jesus Christ will tell you: ''Depart from me you evildoer. You have disgraced my Church, disrespected my Mother, denied my body and my blood.'' ?

>>1009686

>Paul is not talking to the man or the woman, but to an entirely different group of people.

Ok, this is basic reading comprehension.

>Which is his audience, the widow or the dead husband?

Because you see, he compares the audience WITH the hypothetical couple. Except not well, since he draws the freedom from the widow and the not being pursued by the dead husband, to make a metaphor that doesn't really go where he wants it to go.

Is English a second or third language for you? Because this is really basic and explicit, and you completely missed the point to go off on something irrelevant.

>>1009577
Source please?
Only last week did I come across a source that posited something like 1000 proofs of the Quran only that that source was Islamic.

>>1009731
Sounds like you made that up.

What will you do when Jesus tells you this?

Matthew7
“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

See, I know God now. So I'm not afraid of meeting Him later. That's kind of the whole point of Christianity.

>>1009462
>imprinted on a Shroud by divine means.
And no items from other burials have imprints on them?

>>1009703
Yes, Christianity minimizes the role Mary plays in the gospel, the bearing of the Messiah, and the papists worship her as the Queen of Heaven.

Glad we could clear that up.

Ever read the book of James in the bible? It was written by James, half-brother of Jesus.

Ever read the book of Jude in the bible? It was written by Jude, half-brother of Jesus.

So, Christianity, all about Jesus.

Catholicism: Mystery Babylon, Virgin Earth Mother cult.

>>1009741
No, he does not. You think he does.

He's making a point. Same man, same woman, same action. But the death of the man makes the action of the woman lawful, while his continued existence makes it adultery.

Because, again, the Law does not apply when people are dead.

>>1009761

answering islam has dozens of scientific errors and inconsistencies in the qu'ran, but it doesn't really matter when you're debating with headchoppers. They'll just tell you that in the original native Arabic which you will never understand, it doesn't say the same things.

>>1009792
Can you answer the question or should I take all of what you said as utter tripe?I'm leaning at the latter.

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>>1009761
Source on what? What do you want to know?

Summary of scientific and historical evidence supporting the authenticity of the Shroud:
http://www.newgeology.us/Shroud.pdf

Shroud-like coloration of linen by nanosecond laser pulses in the vacuum ultraviolet (it explains that they replicated the shroud's qualities using laser pulsations, which so far is the only way anyone has been able the replicate the shroud's qualities):
http://www.sindone.info/DILAZZA3.pdf

Studies on the radiocarbon sample from the shroud of Turin:
http://www.shroud.it/ROGERS-3.PDF

Nuclear imaging:
http://shroud.com/pdfs/whanger.pdf
http://www.shroud.com/pdfs/accett2.pdf

3D holographic information:
http://www.khouse.org/articles/2009/847/
http://www.ohioshroudconference.com/papers/p24.pdf

Raymond N. Rogers' observations and conclusions:
http://shroudnm.com/docs/2013-01-10-Yannick-Cl%C3%A9ment-Reflections-on-Ray-Rogers-Shroud-Work.pdf

Also, here's some secular peer-reviewed scientific journal articles on the Shroud of Turin:
http://shroud.typepad.com/topics/2005/10/secular_peerrev.html

>>1009767
You have literally insulted His Holy Mother.

You are delusional.

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>>1009780
Nice reaidng comprehension.


>papists
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_popes#1st_century

>>1009821
He's not me >>1009830

>>1009788

>So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another

He conflates the audience with both. They have died, and are no longer pursued, they can go to another, because their bond is broken.

He should have hired an editor.

>>1008754

He was a criminal.

He stole a donkey and violently assaulted peaceful traders.

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>>1009792
Muhammad (may God have mercy on his soul) was actually visited by a false angel of light, it was a demon, a fallen angel of deception. Satan and his workers are great mimickers and Muhammad, deceived, established a demonic cult of Allah (false-God) called Islam (meaning submission to this false-God, i.e. Satan) which was spread like wild fire by the sword due to the delusion that it is the last revelation of God Almighty.

Islam is none other than Satan's magnum opus, which now has 1.6 billion adherents (23% of the world population) and which will probably be followed by half of the world population by 2050.

>For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

2 Corinthians 11:13-15

There may be impressive stuff in the Qu'ran but remember that it is the work of Satan.

>come here stupid kuffar, look at the book, nice isn't it...look it even respects Jesus (while denying his crucifixion and resurrection)...the book's God is the same as the Bible's...trust me...now go kill Christians and you'll be rewarded with 72 virgins hehe trust me
'no'

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>>1009888
Meant for >>1009761

Muhammad was Satan's pawn, merely a man, he was easily deceived.
Jesus is the Christ prophesied in scripture, born of God, undeceivable.

>Blessed be God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies, and the God of all comfort; Who comforteth us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort them which are in any trouble, by the comfort wherewith we ourselves are comforted of God. For as the sufferings of Christ abound in us, so our consolation also aboundeth by Christ.

2 Corinthians 1:3-5

>>1009854
weak bait

>>1009894
Jesus never existed.

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>>1009894

>>1009901

I don't know what you mean.

It is accurate, unless you are saying the gospels aren't accurate, which is a reasonable point.

>>1008754
Why Christcucktards hate Allah, bigfoot and the tooth fairy? WHAT DID THEY EVER DO WRONG??

>>1009645
Why should it scare any of us? It proves nothing more than a man possibly named Jesus died at some point.

>>1009835
Sorry you think she's holy.

She's not.

>>1009844
Jesus had many brothers and sisters.

Deal with it.

They're even named, by Jesus' neighbors in Nazareth. You know, people who knew the family.

Mark 6:3 Is this not the carpenter, the Son of Mary, and brother of James, Joses, Judas, and Simon? And are not His sisters here with us?” So they were offended at Him.

Maybe leave your Virgin Mother Earth cult.

>>1009996
Redditor got triggered

>>1008754
We don't hate someone who doesn't exist.

>>1009846
I died to the Law, so that I could belong to Grace and Truth.

You did not die to the Law, so you will have to demonstrate that you are as God is, by the Law.

Have you ever broken any of the slightest of the Laws?

>>1009854
The owner of the donkey didn't say it was stolen; why do you? Did you own the donkey?

Violently? Yes. Sinfully? No. Successfully? Not so much; they grew back.

>>1009926
Nice meme.
http://storage.cloversites.com/fcfgroups/documents/Why%20We%20Believe%207.pdf

>>1009888
Yeah, same demon that lied to Joe Smith. Same message too.

The devil is not creative.

>>1010006
The Shroud of Turin’s images are superficial and fully contained within a thin layer of starch fractions and saccharides that coats the outermost fibers of the Shroud. The color is a caramel-like substance, probably the product of an amino/carbonyl reaction. Where there is no image, the carbohydrate coating is clear. There is also a very faint image of the face on the reverse side of the Shroud of Turin which lines up with the image on the front of the cloth. There is no image content between the two superficial image layers indicating that nothing soaked through to form the image on the other side.

Until recently, it was widely believed that the images on the Shroud of Turin were produced by something which resulted in oxidation, dehydration and conjugation of the polysaccharide structure of the linen fibers. This is incorrect. The coating, whether imaged or clear, can be reduced with diimide or removed with adhesive leaving clear cellulose fiber.

The images as they appear on the Shroud of Turin are said to be negative because when photographed the resulting negative is a positive image.

The Turin Shroud was examined with visible and ultraviolet spectrometry, infrared spectrometry, x-ray fluorescence spectrometry, thermography, pyrolysis-mass-spectrometry, lasermicroprobe Raman analyses, and microchemical testing. No evidence for pigments (paint, dye or stains) or artist’s media was found anywhere on the Shroud of Turin.

>>1009996
>Christcucktards
>being this assblasted
top kek

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>hate someone who probably didn't even exist
I hate you dimwits.

>>1010010
>>1009729
>>1009731

>>1010018
>>1009703
>>1009709

>>1010043
>>1009202

>>1010031
>Same message too.
Islam and Mormonism are completely different religions though

>>1009202
>unironically quoting exclusively documents half-century to centuries after the events
Wew lad, doesn't smell like fabrication whatsoever.

>>1010031
>same demon that lied to Joe Smith
That conman saw nothing.

>>1010043
that man is a Turk.

>>1010021

Oh, so you're the dead husband. How are you re-marrying (and gay marriage too!) if you're dead?

>>1010056
All credible historians agree that He existed. You're literally pushing a stale meme.

>>1010049
>>1010056

>>1010039
Annnnnnnd nothing about that addressed what I said. I'm accepting the possibility that's the image of Jesus, fuckwit copypaster.

>>1010065
Christianity is the stale meme here. Fuck off with your non-contemporary accounts that were never accepted with any good reason.

>dude jesus' mother had plenty of kids lol she wasn't a virgin xD i'll enter his kingdom btw because i believe he's who he said he was xD
Satan too, silly proddy.

>>1010071
>>1010065

>>1010073
It does you idiot.


>>1010006
>It proves nothing more than a man possibly named Jesus died at some point
To which I replied about the Holy Shroud's qualities. >>1009462

>>1010025
>http://storage.cloversites.com/fcfgroups/documents/Why%20We%20Believe%207.pdf
All Tacitus and Pliny the Younger proves were that there were Christians who believed in a historical Jesus at the time it was being addressed. They were both parroting what they had heard from Christians.

The Babylonian Talmud said he was hanged and died 100 years before the Bible said, you can't establish historicity from that. No matter what mental gymnastics you play, it's always gonna say hanged, not hung from a cross. Hanged is synonymous with hanging and never was synonymous with crucifixion.

Lucian was writing in the 2nd century AD and there's no evidence that he is independent of the gospels which are not good documents for establishing historicity.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUYRoYl7i6U

>>1010089
What are you trying to impress me with? That the tests performed proved it wasn't made by an artist?

>>1009328
>2016
>people are still this stupid

>>1009332
Yeah let's look at a list of popes and other Christian political leaders of the last 2k years and see how we fair on the morality scale.

>>1010114
I. Am. Telling. You. About. The. Holy. Shroud's. Qualities.

>>1010025
As for Josephus.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Josephus

>>1010104
>>1010065

>that meme video again
trashed

>>1010125
And. Nothing. About. Them. Tells. Me. That. He. Was. A. "Divine". Being. You. Fucking. Autist.

>>1010129
>articles about religion on rationalwiki
>reliable
The dishonesty and lies there are unbelievable. Do your own research.

>>1010131
You can call it a meme all you want but it's not going away, I know you hate that shit too. Mad af. He got his shit peer reviewed, so that's when the conversation began.

>>1010137
As opposed to the dishonesty and lies that Christians spread that modern day scholars won't get rid of?

>>1010136
How were the superficial images imprinted and contained within the thin layer of starch fractions and saccharides that coats the outermost fibers of the Holy Shroud? How do you explain that the images on the Holy Shroud are negative? How was the image imprinted on the Holy Shroud considering the fact that it was examined with visible and ultraviolet spectrometry, infrared spectrometry, x-ray fluorescence spectrometry, thermography, pyrolysis-mass-spectrometry, lasermicroprobe Raman analyses, and microchemical testing and that no evidence for pigments (paint, dye or stains) or artist’s media was found anywhere on the Holy Shroud?

God.

>>1010146
>dude he never existed lmao
I just can't take you seriously buddy.

>>1010023

Beating peaceful traders is immoral.

>>1010052
Let's see. Both are a new gospel about a different Jesus; both founders were told by an angel that everyone else is doing it wrong, but with this new revelation, their group can get it right. That Jesus isn't really God, because there's only one God (per planet).

Seems like the same to me.

>>1010062
I am dead to the Law.

A condition you would be jealous of if you actually spent any energy trying to obey the Law.

>>1010155
You don't have to take me seriously. Look at how the arguments hold up.

>>1010153
>lol I can't explain it so god

Well, I'm completely blown away. I shall begin a Crusade in search of the Holy Foreskin.

>>1010164

Given that you're likely not of Jewish stock (nothing personal, just using population statistics) it would never apply to you anyway.

And it's a shame, because you're missing out on a lot; although I'm afraid it still wouldn't help you with reading comprehension, since you've spent how many replies dancing around the issues that Paul's statement conflates his audience with both the dead husband (dead to the law) and the widow (free to remarry without sin) without ever resolving the fundamental contradiction there.

>>1010158
>both founders were told by an angel
See:
>>1009888
>for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light
>>1010058
>conman

>>1010157
"Let me see the lamb you brought from 50 miles away, citizen. Oh, my, no, this lamb is not acceptable. Go over to my brother Schlomo and see if he had any lambs left. I know they're usually only a shekel, but today they're 50 shekels. Sorry."

You would want to kick that guy's ass too.

Innocent.

Thief

>>1010179
The audience is the audience.

A person dead to the law is the wife after the husband dies. She is free to remarry.

Such a simple lesson.

So ponderous you cannot understand it. But then, you're a Jew, and hate the greatest Jew ever, Jesus.

>>1010182
Yeah. the devil is an angel.

>>1010171
Yes, it is indeed unexplainable and can only be remade perfectly with 21st century technology.

>inb4 the red ochre remake
>>1010039
>The Turin Shroud was examined with visible and ultraviolet spectrometry, infrared spectrometry, x-ray fluorescence spectrometry, thermography, pyrolysis-mass-spectrometry, lasermicroprobe Raman analyses, and microchemical testing. No evidence for pigments (paint, dye or stains) or artist’s media was found anywhere on the Shroud of Turin.

The only explanation is: >>1009445 (God)

>>1010188
So are the other demons.

>>1010188
Nice reading comprehension dipshit.

>>1010186

>The audience is the audience.

Which he relates to the hypothetical couple.

>So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another,

>She is free to remarry.

But she's not dead to the law; as you keep saying, it's the dead dead who are dead to the law, and that's her husband, not her.

It is quite simple, absurdly so, there's a solution that doesn't involve twisted meanings and invented passages: Paul screwed up.

>>1010202
What if, the dead are really alive and we're the ones who are dead.

>>1010183

I suppose you would beat up someone in a store if the yoghurts were too expensive and then steal their car to ride off in, sick.

>>1010155
Are you a retard? If you disagree you should be trying to refute their arguments not memeing attention away from you.

Richard Carrier might be a faggot, but I don't think his theory has been formally refuted and the flaws he points out about the argument for historicity of Jesus are valid.

In any case, the only actual thing historians agree on is that if he existed, he was an irrelevant peasant that got killed for instigating insurrection, and that his followers started a cult about him that only grew from there.

>>1009378
What about J. L. Mackie who wrote the best work of atheism in this century

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>>1008754

>>1009388

Geography is the study of the earth. The whole earth.

Geology is specifically what the earth is made of at its base parts.

Either one can tell you how very old the world is.

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>>1010556
>Are you a retard?
Are you?
>he was an irrelevant peasant
Oh...I see.

PS: Remember that he's watching.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KejGKjSYD6w

>>1010556
>I don't think his theory has been formally refuted and the flaws he points out about the argument for historicity of Jesus are valid.

Richard Carrier's theory relies on the legit pauline letters never mentioning christ as a flesh and blood person...which they do. Thus, he is refuted.

>>1010798
>Which they do
Bitch, where?

>>1008754
I don't hate the dude, I just don't believe he was anything special outside of his historical influence. Same with any other prophet or deity.

>>1010815
Galatians 1:18-20.

>18 Then after three years, I went up to Jerusalem to get acquainted with Cephas and stayed with him fifteen days. 19 I saw none of the other apostles—only James, the Lord’s brother. 20 I assure you before God that what I am writing you is no lie.

Sky Fairies don't have brothers.

Additionally, the passion narrative is the oldest known christian textual tradition. Sky Fairies don't get crucified in an earthly city by jews and roman soldiers.

>>1010875
In Greek it says Brother of the Lord, which is a reference to baptised Christians whom were called brothers and sisters of the Lord. He already covers this. Look at the Q&A of that video.

Anything else?

>>1010875
Carrier says that the crucifixion took place in the celestial realm.

>>1010910
the greek is straight up

>αδελφον του kυριου

brother of the lord

The same word, (here inflected differently) ἀδελφοῖς is used in the septuagint's rendering of genesis 37:5 to refer to joseph's brothers.


Adelphos means brother, regardless of how hard papists and atheists try to hand wave it away.

>>1010923
then carrier doesn't seem to be familiar with the fact that the passion narrative, which places a human christ in an earthly jerusalem, is one of the oldest textual traditions of all christian literature.

>>1009348
The word proselytize is derived from a word that means "convert to Judaism"

>>1010947
It's not the same word. It's even spelled differently. Unless you mean it's a synonym which you would have to prove and you can't.

>>1010953
Except it's not.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pr42-SDPewM&list=PLAAA3872E8F6B9A8E&index=30

>>1011032
>>1010953
http://richardcarrier.blogspot.com/2011/06/pauline-interpolations.html

>>1010153
Fuck off Shroudfag. You sperged out with your 3 sources yet completely dismissed any counter evidence that was brought to you. You same fagged yourself worse than anyone I've ever seen.

>>1008754
>Son of God

Heretic

>>1008754
Augustus wore it better. Shit, so did Zoroaster.

>>1011320
>your 3 sources
What? >>1009830

There's countless scientific sources.

>counter evidence
Such as?

Address this btw >>1009571 >>1009575

>>1009379
Is this another shroud thread? Please don't tell me it's another fucking shroud thread...

>>1009413
Let's wait and see if Sweden and Germany holds up. Or if the people are just reaaaally sensitive to Muslims.

>>1012106
that shitstorm already came and went so shhhhhh... mentioning it might bring him back

>>1008754
I don't hate him. I just don't think he was the Son of God, or God himself, because I don't think that God (as the Abrahamic faiths describe the concept) exists.

>>1009996
>hate Allah
Allah is just another word for God, innit? What's the logic, here?

>bigfoot
Ay, man, that dude's hairy as all fuck. Shave first, then we go for Friday night drinks.

>tooth fairy
Breaking and entering, as well as theft.

>>1009413
>Gotta be poorfag and uneducated to have a religious majority.
Guess that explains the USA.

>>1012160
If you look at where the religious are populated in the US it is in the poor parts. The bible belt represents some of the most poor states. Than if you look at the actual people in there there is a correlation between low income and saying religion is an important part of their life.

This should come as no surprise. Christianity as a religion began almost exclusively with the poor.

>>1012121
Oh, shit. Fuck me!

>>1012112
I can see christians are really hoping to Europe become muslim. I guess it would help cover the fact christianity itself is becoming a third-world ideology.

>>1012258

Mark 1:24

What do you want with us, Jesus of Nazareth? Have you come to destroy us? I know who you are—the Holy One of God!

------------

In this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God

------------

I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.

For out of the heart come evil thoughts--murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander.

So which one is it? The heart gives the law of god or the evil?

You know, honest people don't contradict themselves so many times...

And look at it, the "fallen angel" who wanted to be God is asking of us always the same things.

So the law of God is in our hearts huh? You mean murder, deceit, covetousness, lust, theft, and so on?

>>1012278

Notice how "christians" take good care not to do a signle fucking thing of what jesus says? Because that brings you destruction.

The fucking rats know exactly what not to do.

Look at them hoarding gold, such humility, and selling weapons, so peaceful, and hating their enemies and sending them to court, very turning of the other cheek.

Notice a pattern here? They know what GOD hates and try not to do it because HE will fuck them up.

So don't call evil what they call evil because we live among sons of the devil and they lie.

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Because they've been brainwashed and indoctrinated by pic related.

They hate the light.
They embrace darkness.

>>1012415
I really REALLY hope most Christians on /his/ actually think this and you're not some falseflagger; that makes it even easier for the atheists.

>>1012258
Wait, what?

>>1010783
No, I can actually put forth an argument instead of resorting to "n-no u" replies.

>>1010798
As far as I know that hasn't been conclusive enough, though.

I honestly think there actually was a peasant by the name of Jesus that was deemed dangerous by the Romans, but christfags memeing at the mere mention of the possibility that he actually didn't is quite annoying, given that they never even try to have a honest discussion.

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>christcucks will never explain how I'm supposed to hate an entity I don't think exists in the first place
>mfw

>>1012415
https://www.youtube.com/user/DonExodus2#p/c/0FB1F085BD950D0F/0/i1fGkFuHIu0

>>1008759
/thread

Judea was already a massive pain in the ass for Rome and he made it even worse.

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> Why do you hate Sanic The Hotdog
Like with all other good stories his was ruined by autistic fandom.

>>1008754
He didn't exist, or he did and was a fraud.
>he didn't exist
then technically he didn't do anything wrong himself, but he(or at least his religion) certainly inspired others to do wrong.
>he was a fraud
He literally spent his whole life lying. Does that seem right to you?
That's rhetorical.

>>1013659
He could be exaggerated by Saul and company. Not personally lying entire life.

>>1011023
He literally gave you the Greek.

>>1010192
Yup. There are also evil spirits, however, which are the spirits of the dead nephilim, the hybrid human/demons spawned before the Flood, and after.

>>1010194
the devil is an angel

read that

>>1010202

Do you regularly have this much difficulty understanding the things of God? Shouldn't that be a red flag to you?

The concept of being dead to the law is being taught to people.

The concept is that the death of the man turns the very same action, the remarriage of the woman, from adultery to not adultery. The woman is released from the sin of adultery by the death of her husband. And in fact, in the law, such a woman would be married to her husband's brother, if she is young enough and if the dead man had no kids.

I wonder if you're really as smart as you think you are. You don't even seem to understand basic English.

>>1010720
Neither one can tell you how old the earth is since there is no quality called "age" that you can determine.

If you studied the earth from the Creator's viewpoint, you would come to radically different conclusions based on the very same evidence.

>>1010817

Why then, in your opinion, are we discussing Jesus on a Laotian pog trading board?

>>1010923
Then Carrier is wrong.

>>1012158
>Allah is just another word for God, innit?

No, it's another candidate for God.

>>1013711
Nephilim never existed. There was no flood. Don't be absurd.

>>1013740
How the fuck do you figure that? Your own personal incredulity?

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>>1013745

>>1013840
The evidence is literally all over the planet, and in all ancient literature.

>>1013846
I gave you an if-then scenario. If Carrier says the crucifixion took place in the celestial realm, then Carrier is wrong.

>>1013855
Yes, that's a rather modern lie that was not told at the time of Mohammad.

allah is Hubal is HaBa'al is Ba'al.

>>1013860
How do you figure that?

>>1013859
You're fucking retarded, there's no talking to you if your evidence is other fantasy books.

>>1013873
Because Jesus was crucified outside of Jerusalem on the hill called Golgotha on Nisan 14, 32 AD, and died.

>>1013882
How do you figure that?

>>1013880
I see the same evidence you do, but through God's eyes and not through the eyes of the godless.

>>1013889
It's the best recorded event in the ancient world.

>>1013891
Except it's not, if it was then there would be no room for doubt. You can lie all you want but it won't make it true.

>>1013890
Nigger, you're saying you see it through a fictional characters eyes. What is wrong with you?

>>1013659
>He didn't exist
weak bait

Your post is literally:
>he didn't exist and if he did he was lying xD
Your denial is cute.

>>1013895
There's room to doubt because you're a free will moral agent and can manufacture doubt at will.

There is no real doubt.

>>1013901
You're saying your creator doesn't exist, and therefore you do not exist.

What is wrong with you?

>>1008754
I think we have our answer.

Atheists do not hate Jesus. They rather like and respect Jesus.

But they hold onto their belief that there is no God, which is mutually exclusive from realizing that Jesus really is God.

>>1013920
>>1013928

>Christcucks are this stupid

>>1013920
You have no evidence that he was a god or the son of a god, so it very well could be that he was lying.
>>1013925
This has nothing to do with your god or free will, you bum, this is about the historicity of Jesus. You gave no evidence to support your claim thus it can be dismissed without evidence.
>>1013928
Why do you presuppose a god, it's not logical.

>>1013933
He said He was God, lived a sinless life, performed works only God can perform, including raising people from the dead after four days, and then Himself rose from the dead.

The evidence suffices.

>>1013933
>You have no evidence
I do have evidence.

>>1013950
>I do have evidence
We're all waiting

>>1013941
The Bible is the claim, not the evidence. You can't use a claim to support your argument. Well, you can, but it won't hold up. What's more likely in reality, that he did all those things or that someone wrote that he did all those things 40 years after his supposed death?

>>1013954
There's plenty of evidence, even PHYSICAL evidence that you could touch. But you silly atheists will keep discarding it.

>>1013967
Don't turn this into another shroud thread. Who said the dudes that ran the tests on the shroud were atheists?

>>1013977
Speaking of tests, you atheists will forever keep pretending that the 1988 bogus debunked ones are perfect while ignoring that:

New experiments date the Shroud of Turin to the 1st century AD. They comprise three tests; two chemical and one mechanical. The chemical tests were done with Fourier Transform Infrared Spectroscopy (FTIR) and Raman spectroscopy, examining the relationship between age and a spectral
property of ancient flax textiles. The mechanical test measured several micro-mechanical characteristics of flax fibers, such as tensile strength.

The results were compared to similar tests on samples of cloth from between 3250 BC and 2000 AD whose dates are accurately known. FTIR identifies chemical bonds in a molecule by producing an infrared absorption spectrum. The spectra produce a profile of the sample, a distinctive molecular fingerprint that can be used to identify its components. Raman Spectroscopy uses the light scattered off of a sample as opposed to the light absorbed by a sample. It is a very sensitive method of identifying specific chemicals.

The tests on fibers from the Shroud of Turin produced the following dates:

FTIR = 300 BC ± 400 years; Raman spectroscopy = 200 BC ± 500 years; and multi-parametric mechanical = 400 AD ± 400 years. All the dates have a 95% certainty.

The average of all three dates is 33 BC ± 250 years (the collective uncertainty is less than the individual test uncertainties). The average date is compatible with the historic date of Jesus’ death on the cross in 30 AD, and is far older than the medieval dates obtained with the flawed Carbon-14 sample in 1988. The range of uncertainty for each test is high because the number of sample cloths used for comparison was low; 8 for FTIR, 11 for Raman, and 12 for the mechanical test.

(1/2)

>>1013977
>>1013987
The scientists note that “future calibrations based on a greater number of samples and coupled with ad hoc cleaning procedures could significantly improve its accuracy, though it is not easy to find ancient samples adequate for the test.”

They used tiny fibers extracted from the Shroud by micro-analyst Giovanni Riggi di Numana, who gave them to Fanti. Riggi passed away in 2008, but he had been involved in the intensive scientific examination of the Shroud of Turin by the STURP group in 1978, and on April 21, 1988 was the man who cut from the Shroud the thin 7 x 1 cm sliver of linen that was used for carbon dating.

These tests were carried out in University of Padua laboratories by professors from various Italian universities, led by Giulio Fanti, Italian professor of mechanical and thermal measurement at the University of Padua’s engineering faculty. He co-authored reports of the findings in 1) a paper in the journal Vibrational Spectroscopy, July 2013, “Non-destructive dating of ancient flax textiles by means of vibrational spectroscopy” by Giulio Fanti, Pietro Baraldi, Roberto Basso, and Anna Tinti, Volume 67, pages 61-70; 2) a paper titled “A new cyclic-loads machine for the measurement of micro-mechanical properties of single flax fibers coming from the Turin Shroud” by Giulio Fanti and Pierandrea Malfi for the XXI AIMETA (Italian Association of Theoretical and Applied Mechanics) congress in 2013, and 3) the 2013 book “Il Mistero della Sindone” (The Mystery of the Shroud), written by Giulio Fanti and Saverio Gaeta in Italian.

(2/2)

http://www.newgeology.us/Shroud.pdf

>>1013977
I'll also let you know that:

In 2002, a team of experts did restoration work, such as removing the patches from 1534 and replacing the backing cloth. One of the specialists was Swiss textile historian Mechthild Flury-Lemberg. She was surprised to find a peculiar stitching pattern in the seam of one long side of the Shroud, where a three-inch wide strip of the same original fabric was sewn onto a larger segment.

The stitching pattern, which she says was the work of a professional, is quite similar to the hem of a cloth found in the tombs of the Jewish fortress of Masada. The Masada cloth dates to between 40 BC and 73 AD.

This kind of stitch has never been found in Medieval Europe.

http://www.newgeology.us/presentation24.html

>>1013954
You're not, actually. You want to deny all evidence, and plead ignorance before God, Who knows all things.

God has already said you stand without excuse before Him.

>>1013962
The bible is both, as it is prophetic in nature, telling the end from the beginning, which is something only God can do.

>>1014002
Bro, the Bible has been wrong on many an occasion. Delude yourself all you want but that won't make the Bible the truth.

>>1013933
>Why do you presuppose a god, it's not logical.

When I say God created the universe, I am saying x ----> y, where God is x and is presupposed to pre-exist y, the universe.

Any other way is simply not logical. To say the universe created itself is to say x -------> x, which has to presuppose that the universe pre-existed itself in order to create itself.

And an eternal universe is generally considered to be impossible due to the nature of heat death.

So those are your three logical choices. The universe is uncaused; the universe is self-caused; or the universe is caused by another, Whom we call God.

>>1014011
Never, actually, although hundreds if not thousands of claims against it have been proven false, or are in the process of being proven false.

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>he ignores the new tests
>he doesn't know what ''evidence'' means
tsk tsk tsk

>>1014024
Who said the universe had to be created in the first place? What is all this bullshit about creation? What the fuck are you even on about?

>>1014028
He doesn't care. He knows that if the shroud is genuine, Jesus was only an inch thick.

>>1014033
Review the three choices again.

>>1014038
You said "If the universe created itself"

I think that's enough to dismiss your logic. Who said anything about the universe being created in the first place? Just you.

>>1014034
>Jesus was only an inch thick
What?

>>1014027
Oh boy, here we go with this denial.

Riddle me something, if GOD made men in HIS image and semblance, how come we are more like the guy depicted as the "devil"?

So I heard satans sin was to claim godhood for himself and that the mark of the antichrist is that he would claim godhood too.

Semblance means similarity, it means we are a lot like HIM, and look at us: prideful, arrogant, boasters, haters of our enemies, lustful, sexually "deviant", covetous, thieves, pirates, liars, adulterers...

Well?
And this "god" of the bible sure keeps contradicting himself, and he sure seems dishonest because he doesn't want you to try and test him to see if he is actually true, and he sure is disgusted about your pleasure.
And he wants you at the mercy of your enemies, giving the other cheek.

Well?

Also, don't jesusbois take good care not to imitate jesus in anyway? Look at the rats, they know well what to avoid so as not to get punished by the actual GOD.

>>1014861

And if you are smart, and I hope you are, you will notice that the "devil" is the one that never changes and never contradicts himself, he always wants you to do the same things.

Who is truer here?

He told you guys to capitalize his pronouns, which is really annoying.

>>1014933

We also capitalize HIS HOLY DICK

>>1014933
>annoying
Why?

>>1014044
Again, you have three choices to explain the presence of the universe.

1. The universe is uncaused. It is eternal. It has always existed.

2. The universe caused itself. It is self-caused.

3. The universe was caused by another. Somebody made it.

Credited answer is 3. Impossible answers are 1, 2.

>>1014861
>fedora tipping intensifies

>>1014046
Look at the shroud. Imagine a person lying down on the shroud, same height and build, etc., lying in such a way that the back of their head lines up with the back of the shroud's head image.

Now fold the shroud up and over the person's head, and notice how the face on the shroud, let's say the nose, now lines up with the top of your head.

In order for the shroud to accurately depict a man's face and back of his head as it does, the man would have to be about an inch thick.

Say, the average thickness of a bas relief.

Say, a bas relief that was dabbed with ochre paint leaving no brush marks, baked in an oven until all the pigment scorches the shroud, washed until all the pigment is gone, and then dried.

The Shroud asshole is a fedora.

>>1014861
Because Adam and Eve lost the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit of God, fell, became mortal, and spiritually died the second they sinned.

Natural man and the devil have the same amount of Holy Spirit in them. Zero.

You're using "test" disingenuously; the word has more than one meaning.

>>1014882
Devil always lies, so he's constantly contradicting himself. Just moves from one lie to the next.

>>1015769
>2. The universe caused itself. It is self-caused
>Impossible
Your personal incredulity is not evidence of impossibility.

>>1015769
>1. The universe is uncaused. It is eternal. It has always existed
Even more not impossible.

>>1015802
I cheat. I know the answer is 3.

2 makes no sense logically. x -----> x, the universe created the universe, presupposed the pre-existence of the universe in order for the universe to create itself. And I don't buy Hawking's "the universe created itself because Law of Gravity".

>>1015808
Literally impossible, due to infinite regression and the lack of heat death.

>>1015769
Who created the other?

>>1015818
The other is an eternal spirit being (not subject to entropy) Who has always existed.

>>1015811
God makes no sense logically. So you're telling me the universe was created by a disembodied mind who knows everything and is all powerful? How did this being come into existence. If that being has always existed then how is it impossible that the universe could have existed always?
>>1015834
What is a spirit being made of?

>>1015849
>What is a spirit being made of?
Memes.

>>1015860
Seems like it.

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>>1015867
His prophets are many, called by many names such as Spurdo Spärde, Pepe and medieval rabbit of death.

>>1015849
>God makes no sense logically

He makes perfect sense to me.

No, I'm telling you the universe was made by a being of a higher dimension than you are, and that He made your ancestors, and gave you everything you need to exist.

He has no beginning, and He has no end. He has always been, and He will always be. He said His name was I Am That I Am, or properly in the future tense, I Will Be That I Will Be.

And He came to earth as Jesus after mankind screwed the pooch and got everyone condemned to spend eternity with the devil, another hyper-dimensional being.

Spirit beings are made of spirits.

>>1015874
The Watership Down omission is ponderous.

>>1015877
You're just special pleading and swimming in presupposition.

>>1014001
So you don't actually have any then.

We're asking you to prove that Jesus was literally God, muh Tacitus and muh shroud don't even come close.

>>1015885
Try to learn what you're talking about.

>without providing adequate justification for the exemption.

God's nature is adequate justification for the exemption from the rule "all things created have a creator".

>>1015934
I didn't say they did.

Jesus was born of a virgin, lived a sinless life, performed many wonders and miracles, died for the sins of the world, and rose from the dead on the third day.

All the while claiming to be God, and proving He is God.

The evidence is in the bible that you neglect.

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>Harriet Tubman $20 bill announced in U.S.
>immediately people are praising the move and some wonder when "one nation, under god" or "in god we trust" will be removed from the pledge and our currency, respectively.
>mfw

I get why people who don't believe in God get angry when violence is committed in his name, but I honestly can't for the life of me understand people who just fucking sperg out about people believing in God when it doesn't affect them in any way, shape, or form outside of saying a pledge in elementary school.

If you don't believe in God, cool beans man. Rock on with your bad self but shut the fuck up about it. You people are almost as bad as vegans and crossfitters with your incessant need to remind the world of your personal beliefs/hobbies.

Just shut the fuck up and let religious people have some small little token phrase on money that is disrespected all the time (i.e. used to do cocaine, made into origami, people draw art on it and shit) by people anyways. Who gives a shit, it takes more effort to change than leave it alone and we have bigger fish to fry.

>>1016138
it's a democracy and soon a majority of people will want religion removed from your currency and then it will happen. raging against it is not gonna help you.

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>>1016142
Well, I guess I'll be the guy dragging my feet as long as possible. When it happens, it happens. Hopefully I'll be dead by then.

No rage needed, just a healthy dose of disappointment.

I accepted a long time ago that the world will never make sense to me in its current form, the more I age the more the past seems to make sense and be the only thing I really understand or "get" anymore.

I certainly hope I'm dead before we reach UK levels of PC-ness mandated by law.

>>1016100
Who said the universe was created. Again, presupposition.

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>>1008754

>>1008754
Not even reading epic thread, so forgive me (no pun intended) if I'm repeating another post:

- Atheism (n.): from the prefix "a-" (without) + Greek root "-theos-" (sentient divine force directly involved and in communication with humans) + "ism" (belief in).
- An atheist *by definition* does not "hate" any claim of the divinity of any figure, entity, or other being, they merely *lack belief* therein.
- Premise flawed, b8 detected. And yet it worked. BAKA

Speaking as a former atheist, atheists don't hate Jesus, but they usually either don't see him as divine, see him as having not existed, or value his teachings removed from his divinity and religious role. Unless by "atheist" you mean angry teenagers who have 3teeth albums on constant rotation.

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>>1016844
>>1009328

>>1015877
>He makes perfect sense to me.

The only one making sense is the guy you call "the devil" He is constantly perfect and unchanging in asking of you the same things always. He is THE TRUE GOD. And HE says no lies at all in saying that what HE asks of you is good.

And we are more in HIS image and semblance than of no "jesus" no "jehova". And those two faggots are contradictory as fuck, one contradicting the other. And even contradicting themselves, so they lie. And I know of no one who has the gall to imitate them.

But really, why are you here bothering us? If what jesus says is good, why aren't you selling your shitty computer and giving to the poor?

Well?

You seem to be doing as "the devil" wants instead of as "god". This must be so for a reason, you worthless piece of shit.

>>1015813
>infinite regression
>impossible
Would love to see a justification

>lack of heat death
Who says it's not cyclical?

>>1015860
Quite literally.

I'm willing to bet most of the christfags in this thread are American Protestants.

They're cancer that can't be reasoned with. Literally Muslim-tier.