Could someone please explain Chinese history to me?

>United dynasty
>Multiple chuck emperors
>divides into multiple warring states
>United by powerful opportunists
Rinse and repeat until 1240 or so, then
>barbarians invade
> set up themselves as emperors
>emperors start becoming cuckish and immersed in culture
>Chinese nut up and rebel
>set up new order
Happened twice, second time republic founded under Sun Yat-sen

>>1007539
>cuck
Sorry mobile problems

>>1007522
What was once divided, must unite. What was once united, must divide

>>1007539
>cuck

You should stop using that word so often m8

>>1007539
>Rinse and repeat until 1240
The transition between Sui-T'ang was pretty smooth actually. No multifactional parties in between. Cunts just literally hated Sui and rallied behind the Li family of generals.

Also there were only three "warring states" period in Chink Imperial History.
>3 Kingdoms
>Northern and Southern Dynasties
>5 Dynasties and 10 Kingdoms.
Arguably the Song/Jin contention could be one.

>>1007539
Thanks bro.

Anyone wish to elaborate about history before the Mongols and after the Zhou

>>1007567
>Anyone wish to elaborate about 2300 years of history.
Are you too lazy to read a book?

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>>1007522
>"And then it got worse..."

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Eternal Ming/Qing

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>>1007625

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>be a small tribe in the multicultural tapestry that is east asia 2000bc
>qin shi huang unites small chinese states thru conquest, makes his own style of writing and burns everything else
>conquer every neighbouring sinotibetan tribe, cuck them so hard they believe they are chinese too
>conquer wu
>conquer thais
>conquer viets
>conquer koreans
>conquer naxi
>conquer bai
>conquer min
>conquer zhuang
>conquer yue
>conquer tocharians
>build wall
>conquer prototurks and protomongols to the immediate north, setting off a domino effect of westwards fleeing and invading that culminates in the hun invason if europe
>keep cucking conquered people into believing they too are chinese because they use the same writing
>occasionally get invaded by steppe nomads, eventually absorb them into the empire through sheer power of numbers
>claim every bit of land that isnt nailed down, make as many maps as possible showing every known reef or seastack has a chinese fisherman living on it
>build entire floating cities, travel to asean, india and africa trading with rulers you like, and crushing anyone you don't
>conquered entire known portion of the world, dont bother with the barbarians beyond the himalayas or the seas coz those subhumans dont have anything worth owning
>just focus on cucking conquered peoples into believing their chinese for a few centuries, also move everyone inland coz nip pirates
>conquer dutch in taiwan
>crucify some portuguese in malaysia (kek)
>conquer mongolia
>conquer Kazakhs
>some fucking redhaired barbarians suddenly turn up and demand to be traded with and that the emporer deal with them as equals
>fucking uncooked subhumans somehow beat our glorious armies through dealing drugs and stealing our gunpowder tech and even let the nips do this shit too
>WAAAA COLONIALISM WHAITU PIGGU WAAA MUH OPPRESSION WAAAA WE WILL GET REVENGE IF IT TAKES US TEN THOUSAND YEARS
>conquer tibet
>conquer manchuria
>conquer east turkestan
>WAAA MUH OPPRESSION NEVAR FORGET

>>1007714
>conquer tibet
>conquer manchuria
>conquer east turkestan
>WAAA MUH OPPRESSION NEVAR FORGET
What?

>East Turkestan.
Even greater what?

>>1007730
Found the 0.05 yuan brigade

>>1007739
M8. Manchuria conquered China. Not the other fucking way around. Tibet was pretty much absorbed following the Gurkha Wars, and there is no such thing as East Turkestan. The Uyghurs were under a Mongol tribe called the Dzungars whom the Qing BTFO and took the land for their own.

I don't know what history are you spouting at.

>>1007522
Chinese history is a massive subject that would realistically take years to study and describe in depth.

>>1007522
>Could someone please explain Chinese history to me?
It's something as long as history itself.

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>>1007730
>China.
>Conquers Manchuria.
Dude...

>>1007714
Woops >>1007786

Autism

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>>1007751
Ill break it down for you.

By this point, the Qing were a tiny minority at the head of an empire which they called the middle kingdom. They could not even speak manchu after a while, only chinese. The Qing ceased to be a manchu polity, and was just another chinese dynasty.

Even while china was being invaded by europe in the east, the empire was making huge gains in the west against tibet, asian muslims, mongols and turks. They crushed any opposition, for example, the dzhunggars you mention were practically genocided becuase they rebelled.

"Xinjiang" literrally means new province. The qing gave it this name in the late 19th century. Thus name doesnt describe the land or the inhabitants at all, merely its status as property of the chinese empire. East turkestan is at least vaguely descriptive of the inhabitants (who are actually at least half caucasian by genetics)

Around this time, the chinese started massive migration into manchuria,which the manchus had previously been kept to themselves. This was basically an internal colonization of manchuria by millions of ethnic chinese,and today the northeast regions "dongbei" are home to several hundred million chinese,and maybe 10 million Manchus. The nios invaded manhuria in the 30s and created a puppet state. Near the end of ww2, russia actually invaded Manchuria, and kicked out the nips. For some reason I will never understand, at the end of the war the russians didnt give it to the manchurians, but to the communists to use as a base (they kept mongolia as a buffer state)

Anyway, as soon as ww2 was over and the nationalists beaten, Mao went and settled the grudge with tibet and the Uygurs, who had the audacity to declare independence. also tried to take back korea and vietnam, but we know how that ended. massive colonisation by the Han followed.

Fun fact: china still claims parts of russia, mongolia, india, and of course the entire southern sea. Just think of chinese as the borg on roids.

>>1007522
Infinite city spam

>>1007751
Of course you dont know history. You are clearly a chinese government shill, you only know what they want you to know. Your while life you have been taught to be a cog in the monolithic, overwhelming machine that is the PRC.

On the other hand, I have spent years studying chinese linguistics, history and culture, from many sides of the story, and with access to sources on chinese and surrounding country's history you couldnt even begin to understand.

Btw, what will you do with the 15 mao you have earned for your posts so far? Mai ikou gourou? Haishi ni ai chi zhu chong?

>>1007714
>conquer thais
>conquer koreans
>conquer naxi
>conquer bai
wew lad

>>1007522
Chinese history can be assumed up thus: Consecutive periods of peace and prosperity separated by chaotic warlord infighting and mass slaughter/starvation.

To put it into the perspective of Western history: Imagine if the Roman Empire never faced the outside pressures that caused it to fall, and instead it just kept collapsing in on itself and being reborn under new dynasties as it was reunited over and over. For thousands of years. Even until today, just under a different name like "The People's Republic of Rome".

That's what China is in the far East - basically an Asian Rome. A massive empire that is remarkably peaceful and powerful at its heights, but descends into the utmost chaos and devastation at its low points. An empire that expanded by the sword but integrated conquered peoples by converting their culture to that of the founders' and instituting an advanced bureaucracy - precariously balanced web of officials that keeps things in order, yet topples hard when it does fail.

All in all China is one of the most powerful nations in history, and I believe that they will return to that status at some point in the future.

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>>1007714
>>1007852
>>1007907
You are the ultimate spinmaster. I think you study history for all the wrong reasons. I think you're too obsessed with muh Chinese pride muh Chinese powah, and you minimize, trivialize and even manipulate and alter the aspects of Chinese history that are traditionally viewed as humiliating. You need to learn to accept both the good and the bad, and don't use history to pad your own ego. As a Chinese, I find you embarrassing. I hope people don't get the wrong idea from your posts and conclude that Chinese are delusional and nationalistic idiots like you.

>>1008183
I'm afraid we already do

>>1007907
I'm not even a chink,dude

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>Be Chinese
>Be delicious

>>1007522
We are Siamese if you please.

We are Siamese if you do not please.

>>1008141

>Imagine if the Roman Empire never faced the outside pressures that caused it to fall, and instead it just kept collapsing in on itself and being reborn under new dynasties as it was reunited over and over.

This happened several times in Roman history, too. The Crisis of the Third Century, for example, sort of parallels the Three Kingdoms era in China (and even happened at the same time, hilariously).

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>>1008660
Rome and China had way too many coincidences, they're like a couple who never fucking met.

>200's BC
-Roman Republic rises in ascendancy
-China as an empire founded
>Late 200's BC and 100's AD
-Rome defeats worst enemy: Carthage
-Han China defeats worst enemy: Xiongnu Empire
>0-100's AD
-Roman Imperial Golden Ages
-Han Golden Age in China
>200' AD
-Crisis of the Third Century in Rome. Rome divided into shitty Imperial factions fighting each other
-Three Kingdoms Period in China
>300's AD
-Rome manages to regain stability under Christianity, good Emperors, tetrarchy.
-China manages to regain stability under Sima Jin Dynasty.
>400's-500's AD
-The Shittening, Western Roman Empire falls. Romaness moves to the Eastern Empire..
-The Shittening, The Sima Jin dynasty falls to infighting and then invading Turkics conquer North. Chineseness retreats to Southern China.
>600's-800's
-The Byzantine Empire's golden ages.
-Reunification under Sui. China's golden ages under the T'ang Dynasty.
>900's AD.
-Turkic Invasions lead to huge territorial losses for Byzantines. Internal problems at home and in the Balkans.
-Fall of T'ang in China, generals fall into infighting as a century sees 5 dynasties and 10 Kingdoms in quick succession
>1000's-1100's
-The Byzantine Renaissance. Much stability and sciences
-The Song Renaissance Period of Chinese history. Also much stability and sciences
>Mid 1200's
-Byzantine in Crisis from Invading Crusaders, Muslims.
-China in Crisis from Invading Jurchens & Mongols.

>>1007522
Chinese history summed up:
>a lot of people died

>>1008688

The coincidences extend even to the realm of culture. The early Chinese were obsessed with cleromancy and Oracle bone divination. The Romans were really into haruspicy and augury. The Chinese had ancestor worship. The Romans had their Lares and Penates. Really, the only thing that made Rome drastically different from China was Greek influence.

>>1008688
Captured Roman soldiers fought against the Chinese in central Asia at one point.

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>>1008732
Chinese history in a nutshell:

Khan'd

>>1007542
Never apologize for not using the word "cuck."

>>1007522
Never trust eunuchs

>>1008688
You should read Han speculation about the Da'Qin, it's fucking hilarious

>>1008964

where is that image from? surely thats not the text?

>>1007714

>>crucify some portuguese in malaysia (kek)

please expand. really enjoyed your write-up, although it's a lil too memey for my tastes.

>>1007884

lmao, good one

>>1008183

you're a cool dude. how do you like your tea?

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>>1007522

Cao Cao was right about everything.

LOTS OF PEOPLE DIE

THE END

Jing was Wu's clay

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>>1010309

This.

>>1010276
This guy here. Greatest Chinaman of all time.
>"Hero Of Chaos"
>Killing rebel scum
>Laying the groundwork for a unified china
>Could have been emperor if he wanted to

>>1010068
It is, this guy is batshit insane and thinks the Jews are afraid of Japanese samurai.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC0FyFdf1MZiZCec-O6pRQFw

>>1007606
>Russian history

>>1010479
Do not make up lies. By samurai, he was referring to those who are willing to fearlessly fight back against the globalists. He was not referring to actual samurai. He specifically states that "samurai" is a state of mind and is not restricted by nationality.

>>1010276
>>1010426
His story is a tragic one.

>On the other hand, some people see how my power has grown, and realise that I have no natural trust in the favour of Heaven. They are afraid I am concerned only for myself, and that I have ambitions for the throne. In this they misjudge me, but it is a matter of deep concern.

>In former times Yue Yi fled to Zhao. The king of Zhao wanted to make plans with him against [his home state of] Yan, but Yue Yi knelt in tears before him and replied, "I served King Zhao [of Yan], just as I now serve your majesty. If I should offend you and flee to end my days in another country, I could not bear to plan against any subject of [your state of] Zhao; how much more is this true of the heir of my former ruler!" When Huhai [Second Emperor of Qin] sent order of death to Meng Tian, Meng Tian replied, "From my grandfather through his son to his grandson, three generations of my family have shown fidelity to Qin. Now I command three hundred thousand men, sufficient to raise a rebellion. Despite tis, I recognize that I must die if I am to maintain my honour, for I dare not abandon the teachings of my ancestors, nor can I forget his late majesty [the First Emperor. Whenever I read of these two men, I cannot restrain my tears of sympathy.

>To maintain the authority and majesty of the state, to carry a battle-axe and command in war, to support the weak and control the strong, to protect the small and restrain the great; these are my hopes. If my heart holds firm to the principles of action which does not oppose the nature of affairs, then why should I not be successful? And if I can indeed pacify and settle the empire, without damage to the Mandate of the true ruler, then let it not be said that success has come through the power of man, but that Heaven itself has aided the House of Han.

He devoted his life to the cause of saving Han, only to be afterward remembered and condemned as the man who destroyed Han.

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...Did somebody say "Chinese Democracy?"

>>1010977
I feel sad now.

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Why is China so much better than India?

>>1011084
That's debatable.

>Jindandao incident

>The Jindandao incident refers to a rebellion by a Chinese secret society called Jindandao (金丹道), who rose in revolt in Inner Mongolia in November 1891 and massacred 150,000 Mongols before being suppressed by government troops in late December.

Imagine if the government didn't stop them. No more Khan'd jokes, ever.

>>1010090
When the portugu3se first reach3d the spice islands, they bullied some cirty state in the straights into guving them clay and trading rights. Unbeknkwnst to them, this was a chinese tributary. The portuguese were kinda dicks to the local population, the chinese caught wind of this and turned up with a few ships and destroyed the redhaired barbarians.

They then capured them, took them back to china and tortured them for months, until finally crucifying them as a warning for other europeans.

Most people think of the Sino-Tibetan "China" when they think of China.

China as a landmass has Turks, Mongols, and all manner of different peoples, even more historically, like your Indo-European Tocharian you have in your picture.

>>1012899
I thought OP's pic was a Uyghur?

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>>1013117
Nah Kindred
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tocharians

>>1007539
Pretty much.

Strong dynasty.
Emperors become weak ass hedonists that spend too much time indulging themselves and letting others govern.
China in Crisis.
Some great dynasty appears.
Strong dynasty
etc

>>1007907
All these fallacies in one post

>>1011140
>debatable
>objective statistics show it to be not debatable

>>1007565
What about Spring and Autumn? That's kind of warring.

>>81962848
China constantly conquer other countries while whining about how they are being "colonized" by Westerncountries

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>>1013998
Isn't that legitimate?
Westerners are the ones who play the equality/tolerance game, not the East. If you're being colonized by the west, make the west capitulate under their own terms.

>>1007907
Your post is almost copypasta level cringe

mai yikou gourou*

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>>1013861
I was referring to the periods of Disunity during the Chinese Empire.

In the warring states period there was no such thing as "China." The Shang Dynasty was a Theocratic Monarchy, the Zhou Dynasty was pretty much similar to the
>H
>R
>E
In structure: a state composed of semi-independent feudal Kingdoms and Principalities.

While the Warring States was the disappearance of that central authority and the states going their own ways. Had the Chinese Empire not been founded, Ancient China wouldve resembled Medieval Europe.

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Shang Dynasty was a spooky place in far antiquity that loved doing human sacrifices.

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>>1014372
Ritual Cannibalism as well, if the TOTALLY NOT BIASED :DDDD Zhou historians were to be believed.

But it seemed plausible. Shang Kings supposedly ate a cooked portion of a dead enemy rival chief/king's flesh in banquets following victories.

They also loved putting faces on fucking everything.

>>1011084
They poo in loos.

>>1014275
>Had the Chinese Empire not been founded, Ancient China wouldve resembled Medieval Europe.
No, purely because of China's terrain, a large united empire would have always been inevitable.

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>>1014579
You sure about that? Looking at a geographic map, there are plenty of terrain barriers that could have led to disunity.

>>1014720
The Warring states guys were concentrated in the Northern Chinese Plain.

Southern China was still pretty much Barbarian Land.

>>1007852
CUZ WE WUZ QINGZ N SHET FAMIRY

>>1014390
>>1014372
if the shang were that fucking bizarre, i can't even imagine what the xia were doing

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>>1014372
>>1014390
The Shang also had Fu Hao, the woman warrior who commanded 13000 men and fought in numerous campaigns while controlling her own fief. Her tomb contained her bronze axes, along with a vast hoard of exquisite bronze vessels.

I can only imagine the strange slaughters she made with her axe, while practicing the creepy Shang rituals and magic.

Needham's Science and Civilization in China is a monumental academic work which contains tons of stuff the Chinese invented.

>>1008688
I just love what they had to say about Rome.

>The Kingdom of Da Qin (the Roman Empire) is also called Lijian. As it is found to the west of the sea, it is also called the Kingdom of Haixi ("West of the Sea"). The territory extends for several thousands of li. It has more than four hundred walled towns. There are several tens of smaller dependent kingdoms. The walls of the towns are made of stone. They have established postal relays at intervals, which are all plastered and whitewashed. There are pines and cypresses, as well as trees and plants of all kinds.
Their kings are not permanent. They select and appoint the most worthy man. If there are unexpected calamities in the kingdom, such as frequent extraordinary winds or rains, he is unceremoniously rejected and replaced. The one who has been dismissed quietly accepts his demotion, and is not angry. The people of this country are all tall and honest. They resemble the people of the Middle Kingdom and that is why this kingdom is called Da Qin. This country produces plenty of gold [and] silver, [and of] rare and precious they have luminous jade, 'bright moon pearls,' Haiji rhinoceroses, coral, yellow amber, opaque glass, whitish chalcedony, red cinnabar, green gemstones, gold-thread embroideries, woven gold-threaded net, delicate polychrome silks painted with gold, and asbestos cloth.

Are there any Roman documents about China of this degree?

>>1015726
There was a T'ang Encyclopedia entry on the Daqin.

By that time also called Fulin. Referring to the Byzantines

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>>1014829
>i can't even imagine what the xia were doing
Obeying Dragons in Human form.

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>>1014829
>>1015754
In the pre Shang era, Fu Hsi was busy interpreting the Luo Shu patterns, which mysteriously appeared on a river turtle's back, to create the prognostic wonder of I-Ching.

A strange and magic era indeed.

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>>1015835
Fu Xi

>>1007628
That sounds terrible, but so obvious that I'm fucking retarded for not thinking it before.
Has there been any great civilization that didn't have really bad living standards for ~90 percent of the population?

>>1016436
Define "really bad living standards".

>>1016510
Full stomach most of the time for most of the family

>>1016542
Never mind that's good

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>>1007522
it's all a farce

>>1008500
underrated

>>1011084
Mfw would you rather be a dirty village indian pooing on the ground or a dirty village chinese communist forced to eat dogs

>>1008183

Fug that game was great

>>1007606

>tfw not accounting for the T'ang or Sung Dynasty's relatively peaceful reigns

Literally the multi-century dynastic equivalents of the Clinton administration

>>1016736
>1820-1870
>china's gdp gets halved in just 50 years
o-opium wars?

>>1014275
Shang was more a confederacy where they would co opt local clans.

The Zhou directly enfeoffed their cadet branches(Jin,Yan etc.)/consort clan(Qi) as vassals.

Shang warred against various Fang polities(equivalent to usage of Guo as a polity) to the north(Gui),west(Qiang) and the east (Ren/Yi).

The Shang era Qiang was known by the Zhou as the Rong whom they eventually Sinicized(some even used the surnames Ji and Jiang).

>>1016920
DEY WHITIES KEEPIN THE YELLOW MAN DOWN WIT THE OPIUM AND SHIEET

WE NEED MO MONIES FOR MODERNIZATION AND SHIEET

MY SPECIAL IMPERIAL COMMISIONER DIN DU NUTHIN HE A GOOD BOY

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>>1008688
Are you sure the picture on the left isn't from a DARE poster?

>>1007714
this

Nixon's pivot to China: the birthing of superpower China
Carter's pivot to Afganistan: the birthing of Taliban
who created the chinese miracle? can we blame to chinese for taking free handouts from western governments? corporations transfer private western wealth to asia. millions of asians use newly acquired western wealth (transferred from public funds by US govt) to acquire and monopolize global resources including houses, land, corporations etc.


was this 100 year old and forgotten manuscript studied by Chinese leadership and used as a manual and guide to transform China into today's superpower?

http://london.sonoma.edu/writings/StrengthStrong/invasion.html

>>1007539
You forgot the part where tens of millions die during the rebellion.

>>1007522
>Chinese dominate everything for all time
>Then the Qing becomes unstable in the late 18th century
>Pirate state crops up in Guangdong in 1804
>Qing can't put an end to it so they leave it alone
>Pirate state goes rogue and starts sacking European ships, even taking the Portuguese Governor of Timor's vessel for ransom
>Tin and Opium trades halted by 1810
>Euros tell Qing to fix their shit or else
>Qing can't fix their shit
>Pirates end up willingly stepping down in exchange for government positions and amnesty
>Euros decide that Qing are weak
>Cue 150 years of Euro domination and continuous civilian revolt in China
>Then the commies show up and Euros get tossed out and civilians toe the line or die
>In the 1980's China becomes less commie into the modern day
That about sums it up.

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>>1016436
Well Adam Smith contrasts it with Europe of that day were the laboring poor had food, housing and clothing. China was especially shitty during Qing because their economy had stagnated while the population kept rising, purchasing power for unskilled labor were in an almost constant decline during that Dynasty.

>>1018665
Nice summary, i didnt know about the guandong pirate state being the cassus belli for the opium wars.

But the euros were not kicked out by commies by any stretch of the imagination. They left about the time the japanese gained control of the mainland, and even supplied the nationalists and communists with matierel and money to fight the nips.

And of course, the communists were supported and initially influenced by the russians, which is how they even managed to gain control in the first place.

Also
>the funfrenzy that was the cultural revolution
>Destroyed whatever trace of culture and morals that was left in mainland chinese after a century of warlodism
>literally teenage punks running around throwing people out of windows and smashing art that was thousands of years old just for fun
>peole settling grudges against the previously favoured communists, then getting "rehabilitated" by a bullet after the cultural revolution was over and the hangover begun
>nobody even bothers to try making the country improve any more, because someone will just say it is bourgeous or decadent behaviour, and smash it and kill you
>absolutely no regard for the value of human life, let alone politeness or basic decency or common sense
>do whatever you can get away with to get ahead, fuck every other dumb fuck as hard as you can for a yuan

There is a reason why the non mainland chinese who migrated in previous generations were usually polite, happy and integrated,while the current invasion of mainlanders is considered even by other chinese to be rude, mercenary, devoid of human decency and entitled

>>1018719
>i didnt know about the guandong pirate state being the cassus belli for the opium wars
It wasn't the casus belli by any means, but it was the largest indicator to the West that the status quo in China had changed and that they had the upper hand. Imo, it was literally the turning point in Sino-European relations and some academics hold the same opinion.

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Could someone give me a heads up on Ming artillery and shipbuilding during the period 1490-1600?

>>1018726
>junks
>dhows
>maybe some tiny cannons, but unlikely
iirc, cannons didn't become commonplace on Chinese ships until the Qing dynasty and even then they preferred marine attacks to naval warfare until the late 18th century. The only real exception was Zheng He's fleet, which is so full of myths and half-truths that I can say for certain that no one actually knows.

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>>1018737
Caravel construction or inverse lapstrake? Aren't dhows more of an Indian, Arabian and SE Asian thing?

>>1018755
The latter for junks, the former for Zheng He's fleet.

>Aren't dhows more of an Indian, Arabian and SE Asian thing?
They are, but they were commonly traded to China as they were extremely well suited for brown water trade and navigating the Straits of Malacca which junks were not. This was especially true after the early Ming period since they Ming sacked their navy along with Zheng He's fleet because it was hemorrhaging the imperial coffers and had no lasting trade results outside of India.

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>>1018772
Why didn't Ming mind Portuguese "explorers" fucking with them? I mean we with the benefit of hindsight see this as a rather big mistake but what did people at the time think?

>>1018755
Also to answer your question about Ming artillery in more detail: Chinese cannons a shit. Europeans had far superior cannons than the Chinese and continually improved on their designs. The self-insulation of the Chinese and lack of real competition drove the Ming (and the Qing until the early 19th century) to willfully ignore European armament advancements over this period. Hell, even in the early 19th century with the pirate state I mentioned earlier, the Chinese naval strategy was to use small European cannons on junks to slow ships down and then to board them. The Qing opted to do this without the fucking cannons because they were fucking idiots. Chinese naval warfare never really progressed out of the 15th century Asia mindset until it was far too late.

>>1018772
>They are, but they were commonly traded to China as they were extremely well suited for brown water trade and navigating the Straits of Malacca which junks were not.

How so? I am not all that familiar with junk rigging vs. lanteen sail to be honest.

>>1018787
>Also to answer your question about Ming artillery in more detail: Chinese cannons a shit.

Do we actually have some numbers or info about gunpowder quality, cannon material, numbers, caliber etc. ?

>>1018783
There were actually talks in the Ming government about adopting European ideas. Like the Qing however, the talks never actually went anywhere due to the misconception of Chinese superiority over Western barbarians and the fact that even with Western naval hegemony in the Indian ocean, the desire for Chinese goods gave the Ming a larger balance of power over the West. The peasantry couldn't care any less as they cared more about a little rice in their belly.

>>1018788
Had more to do with shallow vs deep keel than rigging. Junks had deeper keels which were unsuited for trade in the Indian Ocean and the Straits due to shallow harbors, but they were well suited for trade in the South China Sea.

>>1018795
I don't have any on hand, no. I do know that we have leftover Chinese cannons from as early as the Yuan period. Chinese cannons didn't evolve much between the Ming and Qing period, and the ships they built were unsuited for any real cannonade either way, unlike the carrack or other European ships which were adjusted to have actual gundecks.

>>1018819
Japan did adopt some European designs didn't they? The whole red seal ship thing.

And I believe one Ming Admiral built a few European warships during the Sino-Dutch war but the Dutch then promptly burned all those when they were anchored.

>>1018831
>Japan did adopt some European designs didn't they?
They did during the Sengoku Jidai and again later in the Tokugawa period due to Rangaku. It wasn't super common though.

>And I believe one Ming Admiral built a few European warships during the Sino-Dutch war but the Dutch then promptly burned all those when they were anchored
Not to my knowledge, but I'm not well versed on the Sino-Dutch war other than the fact that the Dutch got their asses handed to them due to overplaying their hand.

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>>1018787
>The self-insulation of the Chinese and lack of real competition drove the Ming (and the Qing until the early 19th century) to willfully ignore European armament advancements over this period.
Yes, the Ming totally ignored western advancements in Cannons
They totally did not lift cannons off captured Portuguese ships
They totally did not buy cannons off Spaniards and the Dutch.
They totally did not hire Jesuits to work in the Imperial arsenal
And they totally did not copy these weapons nor experimented with them

Sarcasm aside: what 19th Century Japan was to Muskets, China was to European Cannon. They adopted a lot of the designs, their favourite being the Breechloader (hence its name in China: Folangqi-Pao = Ferenggi Gun. Ferenggi = Arabic for Western Europeans. From "Franks")

Pic related. A Ming light Folangqi with a camel-saddle mount (to be mounted on a Camel) and a field artillery frame.

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>>1018864
A so called "Invincible Great General" Cannon. The largest piece in the Chinese artillery arsenal.

Fired either a stone round or a cannister round.

It was, however, crappy with a short range...

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>>1018876
...leading to the much more improved "Invincible Flying Divine Cannon." Now with better range.

>>1018864
>>1018876
>cite the fact that the Ming didn't actually advance their own cannons
>also cite the fact that their greatest design was a piece of shit
Thanks.

>you chinese now, subjugates
with a dash of
>you chinese now, conquerors
and a hint of
>STOP OPPRESSING ME

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>>1018882
The Great General and Flying Divine cannons were transported in this manner.

Unlike in Europe. The Chinese did not trust wheeled carts to hold the recoil of large guns. So they had this carriage with rollers that will slide the gun into position, fixing it on the ground.

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>>1018900
However they soon adopted the European carriage but this was very late.

Here's the so called "Red Haired Barbarian Cannon." or Dutch Gun. By German/Dutch Jesuits working in the late Ming Court.

>>1013819
o I'm laffin

>>1018900
Wait, come again?

Anyone got period art of Chinese warships?

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>>1018917
This one is pretty interesting. Had this been invented.

This was called "Ten Thousand Victories Folangqi."

It wasn't a cannon. It was more of a large caliber long range "musket" with a twist: the whole barrel is detachable from the stock.

The logic being a team of soldiers: gunner & loader/porter. would carry this weapon. The porter would carry pre-loaded barrels in reserve. The gunner fires, takes away the spent barrel, and takes another preloaded one. The porter meanwhile is busy reloading spent barrels.

However it wasn't invented. What was invented was.

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>>1018948
What was invented was this: the Taiqiang (Literally: Great Musket). Which was a breechloader Musket.

It was an in betweener bridging the gap between Musket and Artillery piece. The logic being that a unit of Great Muskets would set up beyond the range of regular muskets (The Chinese had the Japs in mind when they invented this) and pretty much fire long range volleys into enemy musket formations.

Also served as a wall gun. The British called these "Jingall Rifles" because they saw similar larger than usual muskets in India. Though unlike in India, the Chinese actually made percussion cap versions of these during the Late Qing, and even a bolt action one firing a 60mm round. That one was used in an anti-armor capacity during the Warlord Period.

>>1018929
>Don't trust carriage to handle recoils
>Make a cart with rollers for a bed.
>Put cannon on rollers. Tie it down
>tow cannon to position.
>Untie cannon from rollers
>Tip cart
>Cannon slides to the ground, ready for use.

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>>1018876
>>1018882

>invincible
>upgrades it

>>1018883
>Hire Europeans
>Learn from European ideas.
>Improved on shitty domestic designs
>"The self-insulation of the Chinese and lack of real competition drove the Ming (and the Qing until the early 19th century) to willfully ignore European armament advancements over this period."

>>1018984
And? So now it is twice more invincible :DDD

>>1018996
They didn't learn enough to put cannons on a fucking boat which is what the conversation was about.

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>>1019020
Not quite. During the battles of Tunmen and Xicaowan, the Chinese fought the dutch with the traditional domestic "Crouching Tiger" Cannons. The Chinks had earlier practice of mounting catapults and ballista on warships and so pretty much applied the same concept to cannons. Chinese naval tactics were, after all, born out of ships serving as ground support in coastal and river battles.

Crouching Tigers were mounted on a raise deck. But then they saw Portuguese Breechloaders and threw the Crouching Tigers off naval service.

For another, the invincible flying divine cannon shown here >>1018882 was initially designed as a naval piece. Because the Ming Admirals complained of the crappy range of the invincible great general cannon and wanted a huge gun for the navy.

That said however, the more common Chinese "Gunships" (Gong Chuan, a kind of Fu Chuan = Warship) were armed with lighter artillery pieces and even lifted broadside concepts from the Europeans.

While large cannons were mounted on the front prows of heavier, larger types of fu chuan.

>>1019080
Fought the Portuguese*

Should I watch the Three Kingdoms show? It's about showtime-tier production quality, it looks like it mite b cool.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8rkcJ5sYDI&list=PL46NnZF5rkhehGRuhnGUI0phBmYmFposP

>>1007714
The world will go to shit if it's dominated by the ChiComs.

Honestly, I really hate East Asian civilizations and how people jerk off to them. They're authoritarian autists who think their shit doesn't stink and that everyone else is sub-par. Chinese especially because they want to fuck over the rest of the world to make-up for lost time.

>>1019649
oh yeah internet tuff guy?
you think you bigger than the Chanman?
wtf u gunna do about it tuff guy?

>>1019649
>Honestly, I really hate East Asian civilizations and how people jerk off to them.
At least they know enough to totally restrict immigration, rather than suicidally letting in un-assimilable parasites like the Muslim hordes imported by EuroCucks.

>>1019649
>The world will go to shit if it's dominated by the ChiComs.
I'd say the world would be much more shit if dominated by masochistic Muslim lovers like doomed, cucked Europe under traitors like Merkel. The Chinese and Japs have nationalist leaders who know how to look out for number one.

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>>1019545
It's fucking great, man. I rewatched it two times.

They fought each other, then they didnt.
Then they fought the mongols, then each other again, then the mongols won and ruled over them

>>1019951
Please, manchus aren't mongols.
They're both steppeniggers

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>>1019649
>The world will go to shit if it's dominated by the ChiComs.
The East Asians were doing fine with their autistic states until you whites just have to go around colonizing shit.

Remember, you opened this bottle. Now they want to be expansionist too.

>>1007714
this
>
>>1017752

>>1007522
Explain one of the most complex and longest histories in an understandable way on a easter islander rock collecting board

>>1007751
east turkestan is a geographical name, how does it not exist? it is referenced in hundreds of works, and it's translation is how people always referred to it in middle east.
i don't understand why you got triggered by it though, mind explaining?

>>1020137
>east turkestan is a geographical name
You mean the place that was called the Tarim Basin? Or in Chinese, Xiyu? (Western Border).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Turkestan
>East Turkestan (also Eastern Turkistan, Chinese Turkestan, Uyghurstan, Uyghuristan and other variants) is a political term with multiple meanings depending on context and usage. Historically, the term was invented by Russian Turkologists like Nikita Bichurin in the 19th century to replace the term Chinese Turkestan, which referred to the Tarim Basin in the southwestern part of Xinjiang province of the Qing dynasty.

Either way prior the modern times (and that is debatable) East Turkestan only showed up during the whole Turanist craziness affecting everyone in Central Asia, with Central Asians and some Russian Genetcists inventing some Pan-Turkic fantasy called "Turkestan." To justify taking the Tarim Basin from the Chinese. As if an ethnic bukkake that is Central Asia could be called "ALL OF US HERE ARE TURKS!"

When the Chinese conquered that area under the Qing, they just saw Dzungars there. The Uyghurs and various other Turkics moving around were under the rule of this Mongol tribe. Once they won, the Qing Emperor renamed Xiyu "Xinjiang." Meaning "New Territory." In the 1700's

Oh and since then, Mongolia, Xinjiang, were known as "Chinese Tartary." To saperate it from "Russian Tartary." Not East Turkestan.

>>1020026
Yeah, but Colonialism was an inevitable result of exploration and technological progress

Chinese history in a nutshell

>Dominate others
>Be dominated by others
>Dominate others
>Be dominated by others
>Dominate others
>Be dominated by others
>Dominate others
>Be dominated by others
>Dominate others
>Be dominated by others
>Dominate others
>Be dominated by others
>Communism

>>1020199
Not really, China had trade links among South East Asia and the Indian ocean and they didn't colonize.

>>1020026
Have you even read the thread?

The chinese have always been colonialist, probably even more so than the west. See
>>1007714


The only difference is the west DEcolonized, whereas chinese colonialism is contained within the state borders continue, and even to this day in inner mongolia, manchuria, yunnan, east turkestan and tibet. Not to even mention the clearly expanionist strategy in the southern sea.

If you are "chinese", there is a high chance your ancestors were actually from some other asian tribe that got conquered and assimilated by the eternal hanzi.

>WAAAAA MUH OPPRESSSION
>*genocides minorities*
>ITS NOT MY FAULT, YOU MADE ME THIS WAY
>WE WILL GET REVENGE FOR THE LAST HUNDRED YEARS OF EQUAL TRADE WITH FOREIGNERS, BY BUILDING A DYNASTY THAT WILL LAST TEN THOUSAND YEARS

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>>1021996
Pic related.
Only the qin dynasty is china proper, although late ming dynasty was fairly tactfully restrained too.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_proper

And dont even get me started on the near complete eradication of the austronesian peoples of taiwan. Basically destroyed whatever chance linguistics had for a real reconstruction of protoaustronesian, as it wiped out 6 of the 7 main subfamilies.

>>1020238
There was plenty of Chinese settlement in SE Asia and practically that entire area was under their tribute system. That's how the Chinese operate; they emigrate to new lands, establish a foothold, and then WHAM!, they'll make it into neo-China.

>>1021996

The Chinese never had the same colonialist mentality as say, the Romans (and certainly not the early modern Europeans). Rome fetishized the subjugation of foreign peoples as an end in itself. Just read these verses from Statius' addressed to the Emperor Domitian:

>You will carry off a thousand trophies—only allow the triumphs. Bactra remains to be curbed with unfamiliar tribute, Babylon too remains; not yet do the laurels of India rest in Jupiter’s lap, nor yet do the Arabs and Chinese file petitions, nor yet is the whole year honoured, and ten months desire a name from you.

The Romans dreamed of conquering China. Did China ever dream of conquering Rome?

This is not an isolated instance. Take the opening lines from Lucan's Pharsalia, which if you will, I will give in the original Latin (I can't find an accurate, literal translation online):

>heu, quantum terrae potuit pelagique parari
hoc quem ciuiles hauserunt sanguine dextrae,
unde uenit Titan et nox ubi sidera condit 15
quaque dies medius flagrantibus aestuat horis
et qua bruma rigens ac nescia uere remitti
astringit Scythico glacialem frigore pontum!
sub iuga iam Seres, iam barbarus isset Araxes
et gens siqua iacet nascenti conscia Nilo.

Here, the poet is lamenting the fact that the Roman Civil War prevented the Romans from conquering vast sums of land from Scythia to China. Note that Lucan, in particular, complains that "sub iuga iam Seres"--the Chinese would already have been under the (Roman) yoke, had Romans decided not to fight each other instead.

I challenge you to find a single instance in Chinese literature fantasizing about the conquest of foreign peoples as an end in itself. Furthermore, there's a difference between conquering neighboring Sino-Tibetan tribes that spoke very similar languages to your own (and who, in many cases, willingly assimilated into Chinese culture) and going across the world to conquer peoples just for the fun of it.

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>>1022070
The vast majority of "China proper" was inhabited by barbarians.

>>1022070

The complete eradication of Austronesians peoples in Taiwan? Austronesian languages are still spoken by indigenous communities, who are in no way discriminated against legally (and the Taiwanese government even goes to great lengths to promote aboriginal culture). Taiwanese policy vis-a-vis the aboriginals is and has been much more humane than American policy towards Native Americans to this very day.

>>1022108
Easy. The very name for china is "the middle kingdom".

Anyone on the periphery of the centre of the eternal Han's universe is a barbarian and only good for subjugation, or expulsion (hence the great wall).

The epic of the 3 kingdoms is rife with examples of various states yearning for conquest of the others for simple greed.

Shit, its like youve never even heard of Qin Shi Huang, who conquered all the neighbouring states then literally destroyed any cture he could find of theres. Just read any text attributed to him, you will find many examples of genocidal expansionism.

He created the eternal Hanzi by banning all other writing systems -therefire THE CHINESE CHARCTERS HANZI THEMSELVES ARE AN EXPRESSION OF HAN COLONIALISM

The sinitibetan languages have as much in common with each other as the italiac languages had to the celtic, german and greek languages. Not to mention this is clearly no logical justification for invasion of your neighbours just because they speak a related language.. also many east asian plain tribes were not sinotibetan speaking, but of course we have no data on that now, do we?

Eternal hanzi again..

One of the first things Mao did once he b3came chair man was to ban the use of traditional hanzi, and introduce simplified. In many ways, he was a modern Qin Shi Huang.. and once again it is the Hanzi that is the only unifying factor in a myriad of chinese languages, which the prc euphemistically calls 'dialects', but linguistics confirms are separate languages and usually mmutually unintelligible.

Im starting to think it is the hanzi that are the problem. Like a virus that invades people and converts them to "chinese", Always hungry for more hosts.


>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_proper

>>1022125
I said NEAR complete eradication, fool. Barely a handful native speakers left of most languages.

And most taiwanese barely even know the austronesians exist. The government refuses to grant them rights and land, they regularly protest about this but are ignored, And are certainly not treated 'humanely'.

Get out, capitalist invaders. Chinese in taiwan are recent colonists, and taiwan should be decolonized like africa was.

>>1022184

I don't think we're on the same page. Qin Shihuang conquered mostly neighboring CHINESE states and their allies. We are speaking about the subjugation of foreign peoples, which the Chinese did only to those states on their periphery who threatened their country with war (and even then, they preferred a wall to keep them out rather than outright conquest). Internal strife among Chinese, such as the Three Kingdoms period or the Warring States period, is not the topic of discussion. Also, it may very well be that the Chinese before the modern period were a people hungry for power and conquest (which, for the most part, they were not). How does that make them different from EVERY OTHER NATION IN THE WORLD before WWII? Any measure of Han chauvinism or belligerence will pale in comparison to what the Romans did to the Mediterranean, to Gaul, to Hispania, to Dacia, etc. Or what the Macedonians did to the East. Also, your comment of hanzi are ridiculous. The Japanese use kanji (the Sino-Japonese pronunciation of hanzi), and they're certainly not Chinese.

>>1022245

Furthermore, if you're going to talk about Tibet, Xinjiang, and Mongolia, I'd point out that these states were conquered by the Manchu, not the Han Chinese. In particular, the horrific genocide of the Dzungars were carried out by Manchu bannermen under the command of Manchu generals.

>>1022184
I would explain why "middle kingdom" is an idiotic translation that misses out on the real meanings behind the term 中國 (which one may note is only one of many terms used by "China" as a name for "China") but you seem a bit too stuck in your "Yellow Peril" thinking for it to be worth it.

Yes, yes, keep thinking that Han colonialism is out to get you. Yes, yes, in a hundred years your children will be speaking Chinese unless you stop them now.

>>1022257

The funny thing is that the Chinese themselves make no real attempt to impose their language on others. They prefer to learn English, and are always surprised and impressed when foreigners demonstrate even the barest knowledge of Chinese.

>>1022245
To be fair, Japan was too isolated and Korea too defendable for China to completely culturally genocide them. Bad enough Japanese still uses Kanji and Korea has a metric fuckton of loanwords.

>>1022265

In a way, the modern Japanese are more Chinese than the Chinese themselves, whose culture has been in decline since the Mongol conquest. The Japanese use (mostly) traditional characters, their national dress is basically the hanfu, their hairstyle and fashion are modeled after those of the Tang, they employ a Confucian-inspired honorific system in their language that has fallen out of use in colloquial Chinese itself, and their Chinese loanwards reflect the pronunciation of Middle Chinese rather than modern Mandarin.

>>1022282
>Chinese loanwards reflect the pronunciation of Middle Chinese rather than modern Mandarin.
The same goes for Korean as well. And both are closer to southern Chinese dialects, which makes me wonder if those regions are pronouncing modern Chinese more "correctly" than Mandarin up north.

>>1022184

Also, the writing systems that Qin Shihuang banned were also variants of Hanzi. That may be an example of Qin chauvinism. It's hardly an example of Chinese chauvinism, since the victims were other Chinese-speaking people.

>>1022245
>WE ARE SPEAKING ABOUT WHAT I WANT TO TALK ABOUT

Nice goalpost moving. Learn some basic critic thinking or logic before posting on /his, please. Your attempt at trolling is laughably unconvincing.


I have provided you with sufficient examples for you to look at and research further if you want. But heres another freeby : check out the concept of 'mandate of heaven'

I dont have to go any further to 'prove' anything to your everchanging list of autistic requests.

The chinese were and still are today one of the most authoritarian, chauvinistic and expansionist people in the world , as evidenced by their ongoing colonialism of surrounding people.

In contrast, the west has taken steps to end slavery, oppose authoritarianism, decolonise, support the rights of the individual, and create a community of nations.

Again, educate yourself with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_proper

>>1022293

There's no such thing as a "correct" pronunciation for a language, especially when you're talking about diachronic linguistics. However, it is true that Mandarin is easily the most innovative and divergent of all the Chinese dialects, possibly because North China spent such long periods of time under the rule of non-Chinese nomadic conquerors.

>>1022314
I know, that's why i quoted it, I meant in terms of how the older forms of the language might have been pronounced.

>>1022313
Not him, but how fucking insecure are you that you resort to juvenile name-calling in your replies all the time?

>>1022313

>The Russians today are the most authoritarian, chauvinistic, and expansionist peoplein the world, as evidenced by their ongoing colonialism of the Yakuts, Tuvans, Evenks, Chukchi, Finno-Ugrians, Circassians, Dagestanis, Chechens, and much more.

>The Americans today are one of the most authoritarian, chauvinistic and expansionist people in the world , as evidenced by their continued neocolonial subjugation of the Navajo, the Sioux, the Aleutians, and other Na-Dene and Athabascan peoples, as well as the fact that they continue to hold onto California, New Mexico, and Arizona--all proper Mexican clay that are more recent additions to the United States than Tibet and Xinjiang are to China. America should decolonialize those regions immediately remove all anglophone settlers.

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>>1022344
Calm down m80, I have made no ad homins in that post.

Also, where do you think we are?

>>1022331

Yeah, basically. I actually really dislike Mandarin (even though it's technically my first language), since there are so many loan words and it's so distant from the historical pronunciation of Chinese. Dialects/languages like Hakka and Hokkien, on the other hand, are basically Middle Chinese--if you look at the reconstructed forms of Middle Chinese, they're usually almost indistinguishable from modern Hakka (there are some notable differences though).

>>1022378

sorry, meant to write *there are so many homophones not loan words.

>>1022375

not to be a pedant, but it's ad hominem

t. Romeboo

>>1022184
>Han Chauvinism drove Qin Shihuang to conquer the other Warring States.
wew lad

>>1020237
>>Communism
Literally just
>Dominate others

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>>1022346
I agree completely :^)

This doesnt change the fact that the chinese are just as, If not more colonialist. See the south china sea dispute, which has made EVERY asean nation pissed off with chinas landgrabbing.

And it doesnt change the fact that it was the west that instigated the reforms that lead to the general respect for human rights and peace that is seen in the world today. The west alone in history has proposed banning slavery, for example.

>>1022402

>The west alone in history has proposed banning slavery, for example.

You should read about Cyrus the Great.

>>1022402

So you agree that America should return California to its rightful Mexican owners? :^)

>>1022402
>The west alone in history has proposed banning slavery, for example.
Wang Mang of the Xin dynasty disagrees.

>>1022402

I disagree with China on the South China Sea dispute, which the government is handling in a fucking retarded way, but let's not pretend that it's more egregious than American meddling in Latin American affairs on the basis of the Monroe Doctrine, for example, whereby America views Latin America as its own playground and topples governments at will.

>>1022410
No. Mexico is just as colonialist as the US, it should be returned to native peoples
>>1022424
I never mentioned this, but I agree also that the monroe doctrine was not a good thing

Please, stop beinging random countries into this discussion to compare to china.
Two wrongs dont make a right.

And the topic of discussion is the history if china, I would ask people to respect that and at least not derail if they can nit contribute anything meaningful.

>>1022466

My point is that you seem to reserve a special hatred of China for things that, in the long-term context of history, it has done with much less frequency or ferocity than most other major empires.

Ignoring other posts.

OP the main things you need to know is that long ago China was homogenized. Despite having many individual ethnic groups they're all "Chinese" now. Primary cultural/religious influences come from Buddhism, Confucianism, and Taoism. The Han are the main legit Chinese ethnic group.

The Qin Dynasty was the first major government anyone cares about, which is also where the name "China" comes from.

The Ming dynasty was probably their highest point before the modern era. This is where you get fancy stuff like priceless Ming vases selling at auctions for millions of dollars. They also did a lot of other shit, like built large fleets of ocean going junks (big ass ships) that traveled and traded far and wide. Some have suggested they even traveled to America briefly, but that's up for debate.

At some point, Genghis Khan invaded and took over China and they've been butt-hurt about it ever since. He proceeded to inject his mongol sperm and ideas of governance into the Chinese people, but eventually was absorbed and became "Chinese" like all the others.

Lately (past century or so), communism has been happening, and it's gotten a little better now that they're going away from it, but it's still pretty bad.

>>1022529

I think the Song Dynasty was the most impressive dynasty. Just skim this article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_Song_dynasty

>invented gunpowder, along with guns, cannons, rockets, and grenades
>invented movable type printing
>invented world's first paper currency
>invented joint stock companies
>possessed a prosperous proto-capitalist market economy
>hydraulic-powered armillary spheres, odometers, and mechanical compass vehicles
>used coal as an energy source and consumed more of it than England did in the early Industrial Revolution
>scientific advances
>almost produced an indigenous industrial revolution

And then of course the Mongols had to fuck it up.

>>1022402
>>1022417
Wang Mang was based.
But didn't slavery crop right back up again? Either under him or the Later Han?

Wang Mang was a Confucian zealout who held power for only a few decaces, and was largerly unsucsessful with his reforms.

However, I do not think there is something inherently humanitarian about the West's cultural outlook. Slavery has simply been outmoded by capitalism.

>>1022265
>Bad enough Japanese still uses Kanji
Removing Kanji from the Japanese would mean removing most of the Chinese vocabulary which would become completely useless (by virtue of being indistinguishable in writing, most of that vocabulary isn't commonly used in speech anyways).

Most of those words are duplicates used for formality (and indeed, a layer of formality would definitely be lost) but there's words that simply don't exist in native Japanese.What would they use instead for all that vocabulary?

English loanwords? Most of the time, these sound pretty awful and jarring when compared to the existing harmony between the native Japanese and the Sino-Japanese words. And while they would work if romaji became the main writing system, you'd be a) divorcing the Japanese from centuries of cultural heritage and b) fundamentally changing the Japanese language (pronunciation shifts will explode the moment they change the writing system out of their syllabary script). Not to mention that you would just be changing from one overlord to another.

New Japanese coinages? While they can work, that would mean re-educating every single Japanese on the new made up words. Plus, hiragana isn't even easily readable when devoid of kanji.

All of that, plus the fact that Kanji are just plain convenient and aesthetically pleasing, makes wanting to remove Kanji from the Japanese language almost seem as lunacy. I don't think there's a single Japanese person, or person fluent in Japanese, who wants to remove Kanji from the language. Most of the time it's just frustrated learners who see Kanji as a daunting barrier to being able to read in Japanese.

>>1022565

>Foreign travelers to China often made remarks on the economic strength of the country. The later Muslim Moroccan Berber traveler Ibn Batutta (1304–1377) wrote about many of his travel experiences in places across the Eurasian world, including China at the farthest eastern extremity. After describing lavish Chinese ships holding palatial cabins and saloons, along with the life of Chinese ship crews and captains, Batutta wrote: "Among the inhabitants of China there are those who own numerous ships, on which they send their agents to foreign places. For nowhere in the world are there to be found people richer than the Chinese".[34]

What went wrong?

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>>1022125
>>1022237

>be proto-austronesian
>Chillin in southern china
>Suddenly chinese turn up, say aome chinese guy's dog once came by this way, so that means its theirs
>theyve got some shiny pointy stuff on the wnds of their spears that they got from some redhaired barbarians to the west
>family is kill
>escape, make a boat and sail to taiwan
>Eventually chinese turn up again, saying a dragin told them it belongs to the emporer or some shit
>fuck this shit, sail to malaysia
>Going ok, until one day the Han fucks turn up again, saying a chinese fisherman once caught an abolone around here
>notthisshitagain.jpg
> Fine, please dont kill family again. >Guess Ill migrate to this new australia country, at least thise english know how to kick chink ass
>everything going ok, even get on with the southern chinese immigrants from singapore and hk. aussies give me banter but otherwise dont give a fuck
>Suddenly PRC decides its not a hermit kingdom anymore, goes full capitalist
>mainland chinks flooding in, shitting on streets, forcing up house prices, refusing to speak english like I do, giving all asians a bad name and generally shitting up the place
>Start to look to canada and america, they are just as bad by now
>chinks are even in africa, buying up all the resources and shipping them out.
>Nowhere left to run

THEY CANT KEEP GETTING AWAY WITH IT

>>1022402
>SCS
>anything near the caliber of the colonization of Latin America, Africa, Australia, India, and SEAsia
You Anti-China shills are just as deluded as the Chinks

>>1022257
Please, do elaborate.

Not even that anon, I want to see your explanation.

>>1022565
The Song Dynasty was cucked long before the Mongols came around.

>>1022619

True, but the Mongols dealt the definite death blow.

>>1016920
And civil wars, famine etc.

You disappoint me with rehash of the same old historical politics an shit of China. Really ancient Chinese history like the Shang era's Fu Hao is often overlooked >>1015050 and a really interesting pre-Confucian era of figures like her (although the documentation is naturally sparse and limited to later histories about the era along with oracle bones and bronze inscriptions).

>>1022604
Manchu's came in and fucked everything up because stepniggers can't into economics.

>>1022783
Who are you talking to?

>>1022608
>>1022070

Taiwan, South China was populated by Aboriginal Polynesians

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwanese_aborigines

so what is the master plan?

>>1022608
Jungle asian BTFO

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>>1022184
>Shit, its like youve never even heard of Qin Shi Huang, who conquered all the neighbouring states then literally destroyed any cture he could find of theres. Just read any text attributed to him, you will find many examples of genocidal expansionism.
The Ancient, Pre-Imperial Chinese living in numerous states considered themselves of one distinct identity but divided into Numerous states. Just like the Greek City States were. Before adopting the name of "Han" they called themselves the Hua (Illustrious) or Huaxia (Illustrious and Grand).

>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huaxia
This identity formulated under the Zhou period, and flowered during the Spring and Autumn Period. The general shittiness of the Warring States led to many thinkers in China pondering "wouldn't it be great if we were reunified again? Preferably like under the Zhou?"

Not to mention the State of Qin wasn''t alone in the (Re)unification Wars. Others were out to do the same (famously, the Kingdom of Chu). While there was no Chinese Empire yet, the notion of Mandate of Heaven to rule over the "The Four Quarters (of the former Zhou Empire)."was there already.

>>1022608
Vancouver’s real estate market has been very good to Cheng. Cheng is not a licensed realtor, but buying and selling property is his full-time job.

Cheng started about eight years ago as an unlicensed “wholesaler” in Vancouver.

Cheng would approach homeowners and make unsolicited offers for private cash deals. Amanda made a 10-per-cent fee on each purchase by immediately assigning the contract to a background investor. It is seen as the lowest job in property investment, but it is low risk and very profitable. Cheng has done so well that he now owns two homes in Vancouver and develops property in the U.S.


But some wholesalers aren’t content with making $100,000 or more per sale.

“People were going in and offering, for example, an 80-year-old, she bought the house for $70,000 and it is now worth $1,800,000 and the Chinese wholesalers were offering her $200,000,” Cheng said. “So they are making $300,000 or $400,000 (after assigning the contract).

We have friends in the British Properties and the realtor said Cheng will buy their property for $2 million. And then six months later Cheng sold it for $3.5 million. When I’m looking at that, it is a pretty clear wholesale deal.”

>>1022608
>transfer western industry to China
>transfer western technology and trade secrets to China
>China transfers excess population to west
>Chinese take ownership of western land, resources, corporations
>Asian population in west the most powerful and affluent
>Chinese copy and under cut the few remaining western products (Iphone, Nike, Levis)
>Western companies profit in short term, bankrupt in the long-term due to Chinese competition
>The west now being led by native Chinese merge with mainland China

>>1024103
CRAFTY
R
A
F
T
Y

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>>1023972
>>1024103

>>1024103
they learned how to do this after the mongol invasions

>>1022282
Is Japan the

>
>
>

toChina's Rome?

>>1022313
This post is severely autistic

>>1024788
I'm not the Anon you were talking to, but how is that post autistic? Was it the way it was written out, or do say it's autistic because you don't like it?

>>1023206
Nearly everyone, obviously. Pre-Confucian Chinese history is fascinating.

>>1022378
The weirdest thing for me when I actually sat down to listen to Mandarin to get a feel for it, was that er/ur sound. I almost feel as if the stereotypical Chinese accent is closer to a parody of Cantonese or something instead.

>>1028183
it definitely is, probably because cantonese is just funnier sounding and had more contact with the west

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>>1022565
The Song was goat for inventions, but the Tang was at the top of the world. They had their hand in everything, and everyone. That's when they truly deserved the Middle Kingdom title.

Jesus, Japanese and Korean traditional fashion today still harkens back to Tang models.

>tfw no slightly pudgy with makeup overload gf

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>>1028210
It was glorious while it lasted.

>>1028210
>slightly pudgy
>slightly

nigga you blind.

>>1007522
Does anyone want to do a quick explanation of why there are so many Chinese and so few Europeans? Seems like a lot of loss of life in Chinese history so why its it so crazy? Confucianism?

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>>1028219
Can't read it but those borders seem way overblown 2bh

>>1028237
Chub in the cheeks but still pretty trim

>>1028271
It's a legit map of Tang at its greatest extent, in the sense that it includes all the frontier peoples who made formal surrender to Tang's armies and conquests. Admittedly they didn't hold it for very long, but then that's the whole point of "greatest extent" maps.

The inset in the left corner (or the dark orange in the map proper) indicate the territories that were more strongly held and kept for a longer time.

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>>1007522

话说天下大势,分久必合,合久必分。

"The empire, long divided, must unite; long united, must divide. So it has ever been."

>>1028924

A more accurate translation would be:

"It is said of all great forces under heaven: long united, it must divide, and long divided, it must unite."

>>1028271
>>1028292
Li Bai, the greatest Chinese poet, was born in Suiye (in modern Krygyzstan), so it seems reasonable.

>>1007522
What's wrong with his face?

>>1028992
he about to get summa dat dank pussy

>>1022590
>But didn't slavery crop right back up again? Either under him or the Later Han?
Yeap. And it was abolished multiple times by various emperors. Kangxi being the last I think.

Most of the time, Slavery in China was pretty much based on foreigners captured in war or criminals. Some black slaves existed but these were mostly just for show.

Wasn't really needed for labor. They have shitloads of peasants already for that.

>>1007714
>>WAAA MUH OPPRESSION NEVAR FORGET
great post, I thoroughly enjoyed reading it.

>>1008500
topkek, can't be real

>>1020073
>most complex and longest histories
wew lad, 0.05 yuan4u

>>1028219
I'm guessing that Iran and Afghanistan are also rightful clay of China, good luck you guys.

>>1007714
The only people ever oppressing the chinese were the monogolians, Japanese and themselves.

>>1022070
>Qijia culture region of Gansu (centered in Lanzhou)
>The Yuezhi (Indo-European) originally lived in Gansu and lasted until around 100 BCE, when they finally succumbed to Xiongnu (Turko-Mongoloids) and were forced to emigrate.
>Siberian and Central Asian cultures, in particular with the Seima-Turbino complex.
>domesticted horses found at many Qijia sites, of Indo-European culture
>The Qijia culture and Majiayao culture took root in Gansu from 3100 BC
>The State of Qin, later to become the founding state of the Chinese empire, grew out from the southeastern part of Gansu, specifically the Tianshui area. The Qin name is believed to have originated, in part, from the area
>The IE people extensive contact with Chinese in this area birthed the Qin

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gansu
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seima-Turbino_phenomenon
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qijia_culture

>>1029577
>Yuezhi

>>/pol/

>>1029577
WE WUZ ARYANS

>>1029607
it is starting to make sense

>>1011557

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>>1029577
>>1029686
>>1029577

Yes. I was just reading about yuezhi, in relation to the iranian Alan/Ossetian tribe of the caucasus, and previously eastern europe too before the huns.

Get this.

"The Later Han Dynasty Chinese chronicle, the Hou Hanshu, 88 (covering the period 25–220 and completed in the 5th century), mentioned a report that the steppe land Yancai had become vassals of the Kangju and was now known as Alanliao (阿蘭聊)[18] Y. A. Zadneprovskiy suggests that the Kangju subjugation of Yancai occurred in the 1st century BC, and that this subjugation caused various Sarmatian tribes, including the Aorsi, to migrate westwards, which played a major role in starting the Migration Period.[6][19] The 3rd century Weilüe also notes that Yancai was then known as being Alan, although they were no longer vassals of the Kangju.[20]"

So the alans were forced westwards by the kangju, which Zadnoproviskiy think could have caused a domino effect that started the migration period.

Looking into Kangju gives us: "It is likely that the state of the Kangju emerged during the great upheaval in Central Asia following the withdrawal of the Yuezhi from Gansu and then the Ili Valley after their defeat by the Xiongnu and Wusun respectively.[1] Chinese sources state that the Kangju were tributiaries of the Yuezhi in the south and the Xiongnu in the east.[1]

And once again, "Y. A. Zadneprovskiy suggests that the Kangju subjection of Yancai occurred in the 1st century BC.[1][8] Yancai is identified with the Aorsi of Roman records.[1] Scholars have connected name Alanliao to Alans.[8] The Yan people of the Urals, paid tribute to the Kangju in furs.[1] The Kangju established close connections with the Sarmatians, their western neighbors. The westward expansion of the Kangju obliged many of the Sarmatians to migrate further west, and it may therefore be concluded that the Kangju played a major in the great migrations of the time, which played a major role in world history.

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>>1029854
So the Alans were forced westwards by the Kangju, possibly causing the Migration period of germanic peoples that destroyed Rome.

And the Kangju, and also Yuezhi, another indoeuropean people in gansu, were forced westwards by the Xiongnu and Wusun.

But why were the Xiongnu and Wusun attacking the Kangju and Yuezhi?

Because the Qin state, and later the Han empire, attacked the Xiongnu repeatedly, forcing them out of Gansu and the Yellow river.


"Ancient China often came in contact with the Xianyun and the Xirong nomadic peoples. In later Chinese historiography, some groups of these peoples were believed to be the possible progenitors of the Xiongnu people.[21] These nomadic people often had repeated military confrontations with the Shang and especially the Zhou, who often conquered and enslaved the nomads in an expansion drift.[21] During the Warring States period, the armies from the Qin, Zhao, and Yan states were encroaching and conquering various nomadic territories that were inhabited by the Xiongnu and other Hu peoples

Qin's campaign against the Xiongnu expanded the Qin dynasty's territory at the expense of the Xiongnu. In 215 BCE, Qin Shi Huang sent General Meng Tian to conquer the Xiongnu and drive them from the Ordos Loop. After the catastrophic defeat the Xiongnu leader Touman was forced to flee far into the Mongolian Plateau.The Qin empire became a threat to the Xiongnu, which ultimately led to the reorganization of the many tribes into a confederacy.

In 209 BCE, three years before the founding of Han China, the Xiongnu were brought together in a powerful confederation. The Xiongnu adopted many of the Chinese agriculture techniques such as slave labor for heavy labor, wore silk like the Chinese, and lived in Chinese-style homes. crisis overtook the Xiongnu in 215 BC when Qin armies evicted them from their pastures on the Yellow River.

>>1029930


>The ruler of the Xiongnu was called the Chanyu later refined by Rouran as "Khan"
>The Yenisei Kirghiz Khagans claimed descent from Xiongnu (Chinese Li Ling + daughter of the Xiongnu Khan)
>Xiongnu are Mongoloids
>Xiongnu used Chanyu/Khanyu title synonymous with Khan
>it is suggested that Indo-European Wusun used the royal title "Kunmi"
>Beckwith specifically suggests an Indo-Aryan etymology of the title Kunmi
>IE word Kunmi possibly the root for Khan
>Hun = Khan = Hunnu = Xiongnu = Hunya = Chanyu = Kunmi (similar shit)

>Huns were in fact descendants of the Northern Xiongnu who migrated westward

>the title “Khan“ was original to the Rourans
>The region experienced a Mongolification and was eventually occupied predominantly by peoples showing Mongoloid features, known from their skeletal remains and artifacts

tl;dr Scythians transferred their technology/skills/culture to Mongoloids and then got erased by them

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xiongnu

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>>1029930

Btw the great wall was originally made to keep control of the regions the Han forced the xiongnu out of(by joining together the walls of several other conquered states)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xiongnu

After forging internal unity, Modu expanded the empire on all sides. To the north, the Dingling of southern Siberia. the Donghu people of eastern Mongolia and Manchuria as well as the Yuezhi in Gansu, where his son, Jizhu, made a skull cup out of the king. Modu reoccupied all the lands previously taken by the Qin
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Han–Xiongnu_War

While Han China was making preparations for a military confrontation from the reign of Emperor Wen, the break did not come until 133 BC, following an abortive trap to ambush the chanyu at Mayi. Full-scale war broke out in autumn 129 BC, when 40,000 Chinese cavalry made a surprise attack on the Xiongnu at the border markets. In 127 BC, the Han general Wei Qing retook the Ordos. In 121 BC, Huo Qubing led a force of light cavalry westward out of Longxi and within six days fought his way through five Xiongnu kingdoms. The Xiongnu Hunye king was forced to surrender with 40,000 men. In 119 BC both Huo and Wei, each leading 50,000 cavalrymen and 100,000 footsoldiers, and advancing along different routes, forced the chanyu and his court to flee north of the Gobi Desert. According to official reports, the Xiongnu lost 80,000 to 90,000 men.

As a result of these battles, the Chinese controlled the strategic region from the Ordos and Gansu corridor to Lop Nor and also gained direct access to the Western Regions. Xiongnu became unstable and were no longer a threat to the Han Chinese.

the Han embarked with an army of 70,000 men in a campaign against the Xiongnu insurgents who were harassing the trade route we now know as the Silk Road. His successful military campaign saw the subjugation of one Xiongnu tribe after another. Ban Chao also sent an envoy named Gan Ying to Daqin (Rome).

>>1029988
>>1029987
>>1029930
>>1029854
>>1029577
I have never seen such tremendous effort are White Supremacist Autism.

>>1029930
The Wusun originally lived between the Qilian Mountains and Dunhuang (Gansu) near the Yuezhi. Around 176 BC the Yuezhi were raided by the Turko-Mongoloid Xiongnu, subsequently attacking the IE Wusun, killing their king and seizing their land.


Around 176 BC Mody Chanyu (Turko-Mongoloid Xiongnu) launched a fierce raid against the Yuezhi.[9] Around 173 BC, the Yuezhi subsequently attacked the Wusun,[9] at that time a small nation,[14] killing their king (Kunmi Chinese: 昆彌 or Kunmo Chinese: 昆莫) Nandoumi (Chinese: 難兜靡).[14] According to legend Nandoumi's infant son Liejiaomi was left in the wild. He was miraculously saved from hunger being suckled by a she-wolf, and fed meat by raven.

"Among the barbarians in the Western Regions, the look of the Wusun is the most unusual. The present barbarians who have green eyes and red hair, and look like macaque monkeys, are the offspring of this people


In 162 BC, the Yuezhi were finally defeated by the Xiongnu, after which they fled Gansu.


In the 5th century the Wusun were pressured by the Rouran (Turko-Mongoloid) and may have migrated to the Pamir Mountains.[1][8][37] They are last mentioned in Chinese historical sources in 436 CE, when a Chinese envoy was sent to their country and the Wusun reciprocated
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wusun

>>1029988
>Donghu are considered one of the mongol forefathers
the Donghu, Shiwei are Mongolic and created the Xiongnu, Xianbei, Mongols.
the Xianbei created the Tan, Nirun, Rouran etc...
The Tan created the Tūjué aka Gokturks


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donghu_people
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xianbei
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shiwei

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>>1029930
>>1029987
>>1029988

Yes. The Xiongnu are basically accepted as the ancestors or the same as the Huns, except for in the anglophone countries. Note thee sogdians called them by the same names. Howeverthere are also theories they had indoeuropean or other admixture too.

. "The connection started with the writings of the 18th-century French historian Joseph de Guignes, who noticed that a few of the barbarian tribes north of China associated with the Xiongnu had been named "Hun" with varying Chinese characters. This theory remains at the level of speculation and although it is accepted by some scholars, including Chinese ones, the majority of Anglophone scholars flatly reject it. DNA testing of Hun remains has so far proved inconclusive in determining their origin. E. de la Vaissière has shown in the usage of the Ancient Sogdian Letters [69] that both Xiongnu and Huns were referred to as "xwn" or "Hun" indicating that "Xiongnu" and "Hun" are synonymous."

Also note the Yuezhi, who were forced west by the Kangju, who were kicked out by the Xiongnu. They eventually took over Sogdiana and Bactria, and as the Kushan empire invaded India too. They also forced the Scythians into Persia and the Alans west into Rome.

TLDR;

Indoeuropeans lived in Gansu, Shanxi and the Yellow river,and traded wealth and tech with chinese and other asians

The chinese repeatedly force the IEs and asians out of these lands, culminating in the building of the great wall to keep them out, about 200bc.

This set off a domino effect of indoeuropean steppe civilizations being forced westward, which culminates in the Kushan invasion of India, the Scythian invasion of Persia and Rome, and the Alan invasion of europe, which centuries later triggers the Germanic migration period that sacked Rome.

At the end of this, the Huns, probly one of the first to be kicked out, copy scythian horse nomadism , and finish off Rome for good.

STLDR: chinese are violent barbarians and ruin everything.

>>1029988
>Xiongnu were Chingis Khan'ing waaay b4 Chingis Khan was even a thing

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>>1030011
How is this white nationalist? Modern "whites" have very little to do with early indoeuropean tribes in china 4000 years ago. i have posted nothing that is not an established historical fact, m80. it is all academically sound, and acknowledges ambiguity and areas of contention when appropriate.

I have taken pains to support this domino effect with chinese sources too. history is written by the victors, remember?

If you have any logical, factbased arguments against anything that has bee posted, I would be glad to heAr them.

>>1029988
>>1030030
a single DNA strand single handedly destroying civilizations for more than 2000 years

(from tocharia to rome)

>>1029930
>why were the Xiongnu and Wusun attacking the Kangju and Yuezhi?
>Because the Qin state, and later the Han empire, attacked the Xiongnu repeatedly
This meme again. These states periodically attacked each other for no reason other than personal gain and self-defense, what changed was their ability to do so.

>>1030060
well the never ending cycle eventually came to a halt with the reappearance of Haplogroup N-P43 circa 1200 ce
aka the Khanman

>>1029854
>>1030053
and what a domino effect it was!
basically reshuffled all of eurasia!!

causing another grand IE migration (goth, slav, celtic, latin, scythian, persian) and turko-mongolic migration

but the classical migration period did not really stop

various waves of turko-mongols (seljuk, ottoman, khazar, golden horde) continued for a few eons

and the cherry on top was the bubonic plague thanks to advances in germ warfare

>>1030060
and why were they all attacking?

because they someone gifted them the horse, chariot, steel, and wheel.

maybe technological transmission and cultural diffusion isn't such a great idea.

imagine if Ayylmao gave them ray guns and saucers

cultural diffusion wasnt a wise move in hindsight

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>>1030082
>>1030115

The cycle always continues, but one thing remains the same: the HANZI chinese characters survive, and assimilate, and expand.

The barbarians beyond the wall may push west , it is good. They may push south and destroy; but it is also good. For they eventually become chinese too.

The Xiongnu, the Xia; the Jin, the Jurchens; the Mongols, the Manchus. All had their day. All are now assimilated. All use the hanzi. And with every invasion, the middle country eventually becomes ever larger, and expands more.

China has the richest land, the widest rivers, the strongest natural borders. It has the population, and the resources. And it has the secret weapon: the hanzi. The unity that comes from all the country understanding the written word, although they can not understand a jot of their various mangled languages. It is the semantic unity of the eternal hanzi that ensures china will always absorb the invader, will never shatter into a thousand pieces like its mirror, Rome, the "DaQin" or "big qin empire" did.

And standing at the front if this unity, the semantic cornerstone of empire, the first hanzi every child learns: 中 - 'centre, middle'. Formerly a simple circle with a line bisecting it, it it so easy even a fool could scrawl it. It was Qin shi Huang's strooke of genius to name his empire the middle country, or 中国 'zhong guo'. For then, every man, every child, even every braindead, brainwashed moron would know, that their country was at the centre of the universe. and beyond the middle country lay only barbarians waiting to be subdued or assimilated.


Pic tangentially related: spread of the chariot

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>>1030179
Compare and contrast with pic related: indoeuropean migrations

"The central purple area is supposed to show early w:Yamna culture (4000–3500 BC); the dark red area could show expansion to about 2500 BC, and the lighter red area expansion to about 1000 BC."

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>>1030179
>a simple circle with a line bisecting it
hmm

>>1030179
indeed it has always been Han strategy to assimilate and expand, sorta like the borg.

at this stage of the game, they already won.

resistance is futile, just ask the tocharians or taiwanese Polynesians
China City USA
>2000 acre community that will cost over $6 billion. The three phase plan calls for a Chinese high school, college, casino, theme park, large numbers of Chinese businesses, and plenty of homes for new Chinese immigrants.
>The projects funded by US gov't
>A Chinese group has bought a large tract of land about 40 minutes from both Detroit and Toledo and plans to construct another self-contained “China City.” It will be marketed to Chinese immigrants who want to start a company in the United States.
>50 square miles in Idaho government. The special economic technology zone would include manufacturing facilities, warehouses, retail centers and large numbers of homes for Chinese workers in a "self-sustaining city.

facebook.ca/andthentheresthetruth/posts/353331344826235?_fb_noscript=1
http://mic.com/articles/8603/china-to-build-cities-and-economic-zones-in-michigan-and-idaho
http://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-subclass-cnt.aspx?cid=1102&id=20110613000070
http://endoftheamericandream.com/archives/china-wants-to-construct-a-50-square-mile-self-sustaining-city-south-of-boise-idaho
http://fredw-catharsisours.blogspot.com/2013/12/china-city-of-america-part-of-grand.html

>Not less than 1000 chinese entrepreneurs want to settle down in Quebec with the goal of launching a commercial project of 1 billion dollars in value at Longueuil (Montreal suburb). Their objective is to revolutionize the way to do business with China. But in order for this to work, they'll have to modify immigration quotas in Quebec.

>>1007550
It is fun to say

Wow, Yellow Peril guy here is so obsessed with China he's labeling the Han as the "barbarians" that destroyed the "civilization" of the fucking Huns.

Yes, and I suppose those Rome "barbarians" were so evil for trying to finish the job of wiping out that beautiful Hun "civilization" right?

>>1030179
>It was Qin shi Huang's strooke of genius to name his empire the middle country, or 中国 'zhong guo'.
Holy shit, you cannot seriously believe that Shihuang was the one who invented the term 中國 or applied it to his empire (which was called Qin; what the hell do you think Qin Shihuangdi is supposed to mean?)

Please stop. All you're doing here is spreading misinformation. While most people will hopefully have the good sense to not take you seriously there's still a chance some will still end up believing this ahistorical bullshit.

>>1029577
WE WUZ CHINESE AND SHEEEIT

>>1030030
makes me happy that my ancestors picked Tamil Nadu to ride out the eurasian storm.

just chillin under the tropical sun and getting foreign gibsmedats without all the genocide baggage.

File: terracotta-warrior.jpg (27KB, 575x431px) Image search: [Google]

27KB, 575x431px

>>1030179
Autism

>>1030179

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/He_zun

Ignoring everything else, this is the earliest use of the word "Zhongguo" (in Old Chinese, probably pronounced Trungkwok).

>>1031285
look i am as sinocentric as the next Han but he brings up valid historical facts which are challenging our sinocentric worldview

for me it is a breath of fresh air to finally see the world outside sinocentrism

maybe one day you will free yourself

>>1031366

He blames the Chinese of antiquity for defending their lands from barbarian invasion and pillaging, thereby inadvertently triggering a domino effect that led to the destruction of a country they hardly knew anything about except through fable and exaggeration?

>>1019545
You definitely should enjoy this great, lenghty series. with the only condition being that you understand that it's an adaptation of the historical novel (Romance), and not the historical Records of the Three Kingdoms.

Having said that, the portrayal of Cao Cao is less mustache-twirling villanous than your typical ROTK adaptation, and it is made possible by a simply fantastic actor.

Overall, it is also a great introduction to Chinese media in general.

>>1031366
>Ancient Qiang/Rong adopt IE technology.
>Technology diffuses to early Sinitics.
Somehow Chinese civilization owes its existence to Indo Europeans.

>>1031383

Do we blame the Romans for invading Gaul in order to ensure that the Gallic tribes would never again sack Rome as they had done two centuries before? No--the Xiongnu posed an existential threat to Chinese civilization and the Han wars against them were fundamentally defensive ones. Any other civilization in antiquity would have done the same thing given the ability to do so.

>>1031383
>defending is the same as blatant expansionism
good one, cheng

>>1031395

Cultural diffusion = this culture owes its existence to another one.

I guess this means that America owes its civilization to Mexico because you eat Taco Bell. And if the technology that the Chinese possibly adopted from early Indo-European speakers was the deciding factor in defeating the peoples in the West and North, then why did those Turkic speaking tribes, who were presumably in greater contact with Indo-Europeans like the Tocharians and Iranics, not adopt these technologies and subjugate the Chinese? Finally, the chariot is hardly an innovation exclusive to Indo-Europeans. The Egyptians were using chariots millennia before the Indo-Europeans.

>>1031425

It is a constant of world history that a nomadic tribal peoples like the Xiongnu will always covet the wealthy, fertile lands of their sedentary neighbors. Thus it was with the Semitic conquest of the Sumerians, the Hyksos' conquest of Egypt, the Gallic sack of Rome, the Germanic invasion of the Roman Empire, and, of course, the Mongol conquest of most of Eurasia. China's attacks against the Xiongnu were the defensive acts of a civilization seeking to ensure its survival against nomadic subjugation.

>>1031395
well try to have a Chinese civilization without steel, wheel, chariot, composite bow, horse domestication, agricultural techniques, advanced metallurgy, equastrianism, silk and a whole lotta other shit

there is an entire thread on this to uplift your mind:
>>1011557

>>1031479

Okay, so Indo-European-speaking nomadic steppe warriors brought agriculture to the Yellow River valley but couldn't manage to farm themselves? Nice one.

>>1031438
>Finally, the chariot is hardly an innovation exclusive to Indo-Europeans. The Egyptians were using chariots millennia before the Indo-Europeans

weak b8 m8

try harder next time

>>1031479
>horse domestication
>chariot
>wheel
>composite bow
yes

>steel
>agricultural techniques
>silk
no

>>1031487
>cant into history
i suggest you layoff the internet for a bit and grow a forehead before returning with more shitposting

You see, millet of western Asia was introduced to China before rice was even a staple

>common millet first appears as a crop in both Transcaucasia/Fertile crescent and reaches China about 7,000 years ago
>an area largely dominated by IE steppe people who introduced many things to China
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proso_millet#History_and_domestication
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seima-Turbino_phenomenon


>Dadiwan culture in Gansu
>group eating millet and other western IE foods
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dadiwan_culture
>Shennong foreigners/deities has been thought to have taught the ancient Chinese not only their practices of agriculture, horses, but also the use of herbal drugs

>Shennong is among the group of variously named heroic persons and deities who have been traditionally given credit for various inventions: these include the hoe, plow (both leisi style and the plowshare), axe, digging wells, agricultural irrigation, preserving stored seeds by using boiled horse urine
>some unknown people gave the Chinese these technologies
>horse
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shennong


>Majiayao culture in Gansu
>from 3300 to 2000 BC
>Further copper objects have been found at Machang-period sites in Gansu
>Metallurgy spread to the middle and lower Yellow River region in the late 3rd millennium BC

>Copper has a history of use that is at least 10,000 years old, and estimates of its discovery place it at 9000 BC in the Middle East

>In southeastern Anatolia, complete copper metallurgical techniques appears at the beginning of the Neolithic c. 7500 BC
>copper mettalurgy spread from west to east via Seima-Turbino IE transmission

>also famous for ceramics/porcelain/pottery

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Majiayao_culture

>>1031495
>chariot

After doing some research, I seem to have misremembered my Egyptian chronology. The chariot was introduced to Egypt by the Hyksos in the 16th century BC. But there's no evidence that the Hyksos themselves were Indo-European. They were probably mostly Canaanites (i.e., Semitic speakers). Furthermore, the earliest depiction of chariots comes from the Sumerian Standard of Ur. You're not going to argue that the Sumerians were Indo-Europeans now, are you?

>>1031524
>historically challenged

The earliest known production of steel are pieces of ironware excavated from an Hittite archaeological site in Anatolia (Kaman-Kalehoyuk) and are nearly 4,000 years old, dating from 1800 BC


>>1025868

>>1029121

>>1031537
>Prosco Millet
Both the wild ancestor and location of the original domestication of proso millet are unknown, but it first appears as a crop in both Transcaucasia and China about 7,000 years ago, suggesting it may have been domesticated independently in each area

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proso_millet#History_and_domestication

Not to mention that the Chinese cultivated Foxtail millet.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxtail_millet

>Shennong
There's no historical evidence of Shennong,you're really grasping at straws.

>Copper has a history of use that is at least 10,000 years old, and estimates of its discovery place it at 9000 BC in the Middle East
Mesopotamians are Indo Europeans now?

>>1031547
just bail out while you can


The Horse, the Wheel, and Language: How Bronze-Age Riders from the Eurasian Steppes Shaped the Modern World (ISBN 0-691-05887-3) is a 2007 book by David W. Anthony, The book explores the origins of Indo-European languages (now spoken by three billion people) in the context of the domestication of the horse and invention of the wheel in the Eurasian Grass-Steppe


>Indo-European invention of the wheel

>The Ljubljana Marshes Wooden Wheel, the world's oldest known wooden wheel, dating from 5,250 ± 100 BP as part of Globular Amphora Culture of Indo-European origin

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Globular_Amphora_Culture

http://web.archive.org/web/20131029190343/http://www.ukom.gov.si/en/media_relations/background_information/culture/worlds_oldest_wheel_found_in_slovenia/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ljubljana_Marshes_Wheel

>>1031579
Hittites aren't Indo European.

You haven't offered any archaelogical evidence that Central Asian sericulture predates the Chinese neolithic.

Roman accounts of "Seres" isn't evidence.

>>1031595

Holy shit, this is hilarious. Indo-Europeans invented everything associated with civilization in the ancient world, despite being a late comer to establishing advanced sedentary civilizations and not appearing regularly in the historical record until the 16th century BC, a whole millennium after the Sumerians and Egyptians (who, by the way, had wheels without evidence of previous Indo-European interaction--they mostly dealt with Semitics).

>>1031587
before foxtail arrived from india, chinese ate common millet of western asia

copper metallurgy originated in west Asia,

Hittites perfected it IE spread the tech, incase your dull to see the patterns and facts

>Copper has a history of use that is at least 10,000 years old, and estimates of its discovery place it at 9000 BC in the Middle East

>In southeastern Anatolia, complete copper metallurgical techniques appears at the beginning of the Neolithic c. 7500 BC
>copper mettalurgy spread from west to east via Seima-Turbino IE transmission

>>1031603
>Hittites aren't Indo European.

well you just proved to everyone what a bullshit spewing fucktard you are

>>1031603
>steel

Hittites were Indo-Europeans, but he misquoted Wikipedia (kek). The earliest example of steel production was in a HATTIC tomb. From Wikipedia: The Hattians spoke Hattic, a non-Indo-European language of uncertain affiliation. Hattic is now believed by some scholars to be related to the Northwest Caucasian language group.[2]

The Indo-European Hittites adopted steel production from a non-Indo-European Middle Eastern people.

I'm sceptical of any claims coming out of China today. They are extremely tight lipped when it comes to archeology that it just sends like they have a political advisor telling them to find only correct history.

>>1031634
Caucasian isn't middle eastern. And the people are extremely isolated so they are there own thing

File: -YuchiJingde.jpg (13KB, 256x256px) Image search: [Google]

13KB, 256x256px

>>1031579
>>1031537
>>1031479
>>1031366
>>1030179
>>1030115
>>1030060
>>1030053
>>1030030
>>1030018
>>1029988
>>1029930
>>1029854
以前,我們是國王和狗屎!

>>1031657

Caucasians aren't Middle Easterners TODAY, but there are interesting similarities between modern Caucasian languages and ancient Middle Eastern languages like Hurrian, suggesting that there were ancient Caucasian people in the Middle East.

>>1031619
Two can play this game

>Prosco Millet
Both the wild ancestor and location of the original domestication of proso millet are unknown, but it first appears as a crop in both Transcaucasia and China about 7,000 years ago, suggesting it may have been domesticated independently in each area.

>>1031603
I dun goof

>>1031634
desperate saving face with higher level bullshit

>The earliest example of steel production was in a HATTIC

source

also you are a grade-A charlatan

Hideo Akanuma, an archaeologist at the Iwate Prefectural Museum, said the fresh finding led to a change in the history of iron and steel production, noting that such production was earlier thought to have begun in the Hittite kingdom dating in the 14th to 12th centuries B.C.

>steel in the Hittite kingdom
>in the Hittite kingdom

GTFO

>>1031634

Btw, I should point out that the name "Hittites" is a historical misnomer, since they probably didn't call themselves that. It initially arose due to their misidentification with the Biblical Hittites. They called their language "Neshili," after all, and the only reason they are still called Hittites is because they conquered and settled in the Hattic capital of Hattusa.

>>1007522
常清创

>>1031661
"Shit." In Chinese would be 放屁 (Fart) or more offensively 狗屁(dog fart)

"Shit" in Chinese isn't offensive. Fart is for some reason.

>>1007522
常清創丁當冬

>>1031670
NOPE

the chinese claim to develop everything independantly, even copper, steel, wheel, chariot

go to the article and see the image showing the spread of common millet from its native transcaucas to china

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seima-Turbino_phenomenon

>>1031670
>I dun goof

you don't have to explain shit

your shilling is way too obvious

>>1031696
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seima-Turbino_phenomenon

However, further excavations and research in Ban Chiang and Ban Non Wat, Thailand argue the idea that Seima-Turbino brought metal workings into southeast Asia is based on inaccurate and unreliable radiocarbon dating, and remains a hotly debated theory among archaeologists.[7]

>>1031696
>Seima-Turbino Phenonmenon 1500 BC
>but it first appears as a crop in both Transcaucasia and China about 7,000 years ago

>>1031700
Whatever helps you sleep at night.

>>1031676
>Hideo Akanuma, an archaeologist at the Iwate Prefectural Museum, said the fresh finding led to a change in the history of iron and steel production

Holy shit, your reading comprehension is non-existent.

> said the fresh finding led to a change in the history of iron and steel production, noting that such production was earlier thought to have begun in the Hittite kingdom dating in the 14th to 12th centuries B.C.

Steel was attributed to the Hittites by traditional scholarship, but new evidence now suggest that it was first invented by the Hattics, whom the Hittites conquered.

>>1031720

Also, I don't know how this became a White supremacist thread, which is illogical since you can't even identify Indo-Europeans with White people. Are Indians white? How about Afghans and Iranians?

>>1031720
>Hattics
souce fucktard

article is about Hittite kingdom, no reference to Hattic you bullshitting fuck


http://web.archive.org/web/20130723152823/http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/holnus/001200903261611.htm

>>1031732

We do not know where ironworking began, nor do we know where smiths first learned about steel. However, both tradition and fragmentary archaeological evidence suggest that ironworking developed in or near the long-time metallurgical heartland of the Bronze Age, the plateau of Anatolia. Ancient historians and surviving contemporary documents associate iron-working with the Hittites, who flourished in Anatolia from about 1450-1200 BC. The name of the Biblical/mythological smith Tubal Cain is based on the name of a northern Anatolian tribe. The Hittites never used iron extensively, but they produced limited quantities of iron daggers and swords before their empire collapsed around 1200 BC.

However, iron-working is much older than the Hittites. Several objects of smelted iron are older than 2000 BC, all of them in a context that suggests they were treated as ornamental objects of great value. One in particular stands out, because the regional setting accords with the traditional origin of iron working. It is a dagger with an smelted iron blade and a bronze handle, found in a Hattic royal tomb dated about 2500 BC, at Alaca Höyük in northern Anatolia. The Hattic people preceded the Hittites, and were already working bronze in a sophisticated way at this time.

>>1031701
>>1031709
It is conjectured that changes in climate in this region around 2000 BC and the ensuing ecological, economic and political changes triggered a rapid and massive migration westward into northeast Europe, eastward into China and southward into Vietnam and Thailand across a frontier of some 4,000 miles.[4] This migration took place in just five to six generations and led to peoples from Finland in the west to Thailand in the east employing the same metal working technology and, in some areas, horse breeding and riding.[4] However, further excavations and research in Ban Chiang and Ban Non Wat, Thailand argue the idea that Seima-Turbino brought metal workings into southeast Asia is based on inaccurate and unreliable radiocarbon dating, and remains a hotly debated theory among archaeologists
>hotly debated theory among archaeologists
>hotly debated theory among archaeologists
>CIDF denying historical facts

just like you are now chong

>>1031741
>another lame desperate CIDF attempt

iron =/= steel

you just khan'd yourself chong

>>1031751
Domestication of Proso millet predates Seima- Turbino.

>>1031770
>Hittites & Hattics
>Chinese shilling.
Ok.