makes you think

>Almost 19th century
>Still didn't group up from realism
Yeah, the west was pretty retarded.

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>>1001997
Different place, different time.

>>1001997

>europe
>all boring and looks the same

>japan
>actual interesting style

No wonder all western animation is shit while anime is the most varied and interesting art form nowadays.

>>1001997
>http://museumofnonvisibleart.com/

This is what happened next.

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>>1002010
>this is japanese unironic take on perspective

>>1002014
>interesting style

i just pictured an art teacher writing that on a special needs childs art work

>>1002010
>>1002014
Mad weebs ITT

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>Making tentacle porn for centuries
Japan is so based.

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>>1002016
This has to be bait. They can't be serious.

>>1002011
Back then, Art was boring but skillful.

Now it's just plain shit. Oh well...

>>1002014
>all boring and looks the same
I know it's troll:

Actually the interesting thing about western art is that it didn't follow conventions or the conventions were very short-lived. Japanese painted mostly the same in 16th century as they've did in 19th.

The Japanese paintings, along with Hawaiian, Filipino and other East asian/pacific arts were discovered in late 19th century and inspired expressionism and later schools like cubism. All of which lived actively for decade to three.

>>1002023
That more or less matches what I've seen of American Warships

>>1002014
>most varied

All anime looks the same.

>>1002093
Are you legit retarded or you don't see what's wrong with the picture

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>>1002084
>Filipino
No such fucking thing.

By the time Native Flips started painting, we painted like cunts in Europe. Pic related.

Native Precolonial Art involved metalworking, sculpture, and engraving. No painting. The only painters around prior Spanish colonization would be Chinese exiles & merchant-settlers in their trading posts.

>>1002122
Can't deny Japanese art was a massive source of inspiration for modern art and design though. Most of Art Nouveau is a takeoff of Japanese woodblock printing.

And for the OP, pictures of Kabuki actors were literally caricatures. It's like posting a Punch cartoon from the 1800s and saying "them whites amirite?"

>>1002122
The thing is that they've created their weird conventions that were later used by expressionists, among others. Same goes for African art.

Technique doesn't have much to do with it, I mean Picasso was pretty good at anatomy, perspective etc. but he rarely made use of it in his most well-known paintings.

That most other cultures were technically inferior to western one when it comes to art is another issue.

>>1001997
>le realism is always better meme
I mean Western art is better but still, you could have picked a better way to prove your point.

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>>1002134
except there was no japanese art besides punch cartoons

eastern painting/drawing was superior to the west until the renaissance, tang dynasty drawings of nature were better than the cartoons the romans made, their sculpture however never reached the quality of the classical world

[spoiler]in b4 someone gets butthurt by the notion one culture can do something better than another and claims "muh subjectivity"[/spoiler]

>>1002202
The whole fucking point of art is to be as realistic as possible. Fuck off to your gook shit cuck.

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It took thousands of years for the Japanese to arrive at anime. The Japanese "painting" you're referring to is actually 18th proto-anime.

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>>1002342
> The whole fucking point of art is to be as realistic as possible
Stalin would be proud of you.

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>>1002342
>t. pleb

>>1002313
Why does all the western painters started to copy the japanese in the late 19th then ?

>>1002016
>Art itself is nothing.
>All that matters is what is left.
>The afterglow.
>The ambition is to produce this.
>We strive for an afterglow with no thing preceding.
>The only surface worth painting is the mind of the viewer.
>The viewing of art should not require eyes.
>Art is without value until it faces the market.
>The market purveys value.
>Money is banal until it has been spent.
>Money spent on art is money transformed.
>What you see does not matter.
>What you have seen is everything.
>All you truly buy is the afterglow.
>It has value.
>You must pay more for the glow that has no thing.
>Nothing before.
>Pure after.

tl;dr buying artworks is too plebeian because artworks are meaningless, just give us a ton of money and it's like you bought valuable art without having to actually buy ugly paintings and play-doh statues.

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>>1002342
>The whole fucking point of art is to be as realistic as possible.
true, look at this artistic masterpiece

>photofags

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>>1002048

>>1001997
You're a moron. Have you considered that maybe the reason people stick to a style is because of censorship?

Also, clearly realistic painting is much older than the end of the 18th century, this style is from the 15th century, but realistic cave paintings already existed in the Upper Paleolithic.

TL;DR: kys and your bait-pic

>>1002011
Is the room itself the art piece? Because it's really doing it for me.

>>1002100
This.

Look at the art styles of western cartoons. Even something as mundane as the Simpsons vs. Family Guy vs. Archer... they have very unique styles, even if the narrative overlaps

>>1002422
>[Citation Needed]

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>>1002920

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>>1002920
Look into Japonism...

Why didn't the east experience a renaissance?

>>1003205
For Japan at least, there was no cultural decline or cultural vacuum left by the fall of the state or religion. It was a continuum of influences from mainland China (religion, writing, culture) mixed with native Japanese innovation. Art was expression rather than an attempt to capture realism.

>>1001997
no camera obscura

>>1002920
Not him but it's a well known fact

>>1001997
>art needs to achieve one singular ideal based on the stylistic traditions of a limited geographical area for a a limited period of history

>>1002422
>all the western painters
>all

Nigga u dun goofed

>>1002422

I thought it was more if anything just using their culture for costumes and backgrounds, not so much the actual artistic technique being copied but dress/culture being portrayed.

>>1002023
the huge boats
with guns

>>1002342
this is the most autistic thing ive read all day

>>1001997
https://youtu.be/lNI07egoefc
Thoughts?

>>1002100
>implying
This is all from the last two years.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t8uZX_DpVTo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BS4kDrmq-I8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvaosZlQqrY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1ARRcK4LVs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iug12DnMNHQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRd9g-Uw50M

>>1001997
Have you ever seen a woodblock print? They're beautiful.

They also improved significantly since then in general. Now Japan has some of the greatest illustrators on the planet.

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>>1004856
i dont believe that art can be measured objectively. sure i personally think that some art is better than others, but what i think is good art and what you think is good art are totally different, and there is nothing wrong with that

I am in no way, shape or form a filthy weeb, in fact I really find them disgusting.

Anyway what most of you guys maybe dont know is, japs had this weird art style that everyone liked for some reason. You can google it up because I dont know the names and I dont care, but basically they too could draw things 'correctly' as well, and there are a bunch of their artists who did that, but majority of people preferred this weirdo goofy style and so it became a mainstream.

>>1005082
Of course, but the point of the video is that by thinking like that it takes away all focus on objective skill, the modern art that is experimenting on the fringes become the norm instead of being the exception.

>>1005120
but thats the misconception that people have. modern art isnt easy. if it were actually as easy as you make it out to be, then everyone would do it. but you arent a modern artist selling huge boulders for millions of dollars, and neither am i. nor anyone ive ever met, even though they all insist that it takes no talent and that even a child can do it

I like both

>>1005120
What does skill have to do with art?

it's all shit

>>1005147
Do you really think they gain that popularity purely on the merits of their art? You don't think it has to do with connections and being good at selling things? Because I'm inclined to believe it does.

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simplicity is beautiful

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>>1005274
Being a good salesman is in a way an art, the art of selling things that would not have been considered art. I agree with you.
you guys remember this?

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>>1002313
>cartoons the romans made

Have you seen the Roman era mosaics, and Hellenistic and Greek statues? The ancient western world was pretty productive in art.

I like some Asian art too though. They're naturalistic paintings and calligraphy is prety cool. Really the Middle Ages were an ungly time for the West. They only made weird drawings in manuscripts.

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>>1002100
>>1002640
what?

>>1002342
>The whole fucking point of art is to be as realistic as possible
I never knew photographs were the greatest art before, thanks Reddit

>>1002920
Not all but Japanese art and architecture heavily influenced western artists and architectures during the late 19th and throughout the 20th century.

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>>1005381
He's not referring to statues. He outright admits the west had better sculptures. He's stating that Eastern paintings at the time were better than Roman or Greek art.

>>1002048
>>1002603

reported for violating rule No.5

>>1005446

Lain
Gurren Lagann
Some Ghibli film
Lucky Star

What's the bottom right corner?

>>1002023
Yes, because everyone is always attempting realistic perspective in all works of art.

>>1005446
So......where's the difference in art style?

>>1005786
>watch as I pretend to be retarded
u sur showd him :D

Please end yourself.

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>>1005786
[insert witty comeback about how you're retarded/blind here]

>>1002075
Please shut up

>>1002075
You're the same person that would deem people genuinely enjoying contemporary art as being pretentious while you're here throwing hot opinions everywhere

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>Japanese sculptures

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>>1001997
>implying realism is bad

You should honestly consider drinking some bleach today

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>>1006031
My fault, just realized this thread is about how Japanese painting is snowflake tier and is both objectively and subjectively worse than western art.

>>1006031
did you paint that yourself anon

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>>1006041
There is absolutely no reason to be mad that photography and the shitstink of communism left realism in the dirt last century, friend.

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>>1006053
Maybe

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>>1006062
>that is considered a good eastern styled sculpture
>literally weeb tier

I honestly can't tell if you're shit posting right now.

>>1006074
Oh boy, another fucking landscape. What's next, a Norman Rockwell painting of a snowy house? Get that kitschy American bullshit out of here.

>>1002014
Anime is a ripoff of western cartoons.

>>1001997
Japs were always kinda weird with their art. Like how Tezuka took details from his favorite Disney cartoons, the ducks specifically, and made the animu style.

>>1006074
you can't seriously like what you're posting, it's literally hunting house tier

>>1006019
Fascinating how they achieved that level of fidelity in sculpture yet their paintings seem to be so much more inferior. Is there any example of japanese paintings attempting something close to realism or the like?

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>>1006079
il fuk u an ur shite waifu up swear on me mum

>>1006082
Not a rip-off but it did take a lot of cues from it until it became its own thing with its own conventions.

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>>1006079
What's your problem?

>>1002100
I know this is bait, but FLCL alone has atleast 5 different animation styles in it

>>1006085
>inferior
Why do you think they were trying to be realist? Or that lack of realism was regarded as an inferior feature?
Seriously, History of Art discussions on /his/ are the cringiest thing I've ever seen.

>>1006096
there have been many examples in this thread of how the perspective is totally out of whack and so on, now because of the impressive sculptures I then become curious and ask if there's anything similar in realism in their paintings, but you for some reason feel the need to defend this nation instead of just reading what I said.

>>1006092
Pretty af

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>>1006104
<3

>>1006095
A what alone

>>1006095
Show me an anime girl with thick lips

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>>1006084
Why don't you post some than anon and help curb the spread of weeashit.

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>>1006102
If the use of perspective is your way of measuring realism then yes there has been examples, pic related.

>>1006109
no

>>1006109
>thick lips
Gross.

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>>1006111

>>1006129
>>1006130
Such variety lmao

>>1006136
In all actuality the second most important girl in FLCL has pretty thick lips

>>1006146
I don't know what FLCL is nigga I'm not a weeb

>>1006159
He's the son of YHWH you fucking mong
also the greatest painter in creation
>I share this board with this kind of trash fuck

>>1006169
Shut up cuck lmao

It saddens me that we lost most of Roman and Greek paintings. I've seen a few roman frescoes that rival Renaissance ones, and given that Renaissance painters were working on that basis it was surprising that in some cases I could not tell the difference between Roman and more modern ones.

>>1004856
PragarU is started by a radiohost. Even though he has an education in Anthropology and History the whole "university" is basically a scam.
First of all, it doesn't do any actual research.
It offers "courses" on subjects as presented in the youtube video, hell, that youtube video is LABELLED a course.
It is an uneducated biased opinion, and at most a lecture which ought not be taught in a classroom.
It is literally Big Think tier, but labelled as a "university."
Look through their other videos and you'll see that every video is conservative propaganda.
If you want to start reading about art, read:
'The Death of the Author' by Roland Barthes.
The End of Art: A philosophical Defense.' by Arthur Danto.
It is also worth to note that most of the greats of the past have been way surpassed in skill, but because they were the first ones to utilise techniques etc., they will always be canonical artists.
People today also try to create new forms of realism, like ultra-realism, with new techniques, pushed so far to the limits, that it literally becomes uninteresting from an artistic perspective.
To make great art you have to push boundaries, but they cannot really be pushed any further, and if they are pushed, they are pushed by modern artists. There are a lot of new ideas in art, and we are most likely going to see a lot of art go into video games etc., and thus also bring with it marxist, feminist, psycho-analytic etc. criticisms of it.
What people don't understand is that it isn't very interesting to produce the same old shit over and over.
Today people try to push the boundaries of art and question what art is in itself. And yes, people try to make people feel bad, since that they question whether an artistic piece is ought to make someone feel good etc. or even try to make people feel bad due to the exploitative nature of capitalism.

>>1007143
>First of all, it doesn't do any actual research.

Where are you basing this? Most of their videos are made by professionals in their respective fields.

>It is an uneducated biased opinion
Their video quality vary, but it is obvious you just disagree with them.

Their video on the issues on male education literally said nothing wrong.

>>1007155
>Where are you basing this?
Go look for their publications.
>Most of their videos are made by professionals in their respective fields.
Cherry-picked to support their conservative propaganda.
>Their video on the issues on male education literally said nothing wrong.
It is done by a woman with a youtube channel where she calls herself 'Factual Feminist' wholly concerned with painting up Strawman arguments against feminism.

So no, it isn't very credible.

>>1007189
Also, those videos are put up on American Enterprise Institute's youtube channel which is > is a conservative think tank based in Washington, D.C.
according to Wikipedia.

>>1001997

This idea is explored brilliantly by Orhan Pamuk in My Name Is Red, where the inability of Islamic artists at the Ottoman court to master perspective or deviate from copying old masters is presented as a metaphor for the Islamic world's impending inability to keep up with the creativity and dynamism of the West.

>>1005446
what about the thousands of other shows with the same style

>>1005786
you are clearly just being thick now son

t. fan of big thick boys

>>1001997
Why pick the 1780s and 90s? The Dutch and Flemish had realistic paintings by 1430-1500

>>1002100
Most anime looks very similar because that's what sells but there's at least two shows a season with a radically different artstyle nowadays (JoJo's, Otomatsu, whatever Trigger makes, technically Monogatari?)

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Japanese art is fantastic, it has a great conception of negative space and the power of asymmetry

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jappanese decorative art has a very long history of being incredibly tastefull, understated, and refined

>>1007189

The only thing you are saying is that i don't agree with them

>It is done by a woman with a youtube channel where she...

That's beside the point, i wasn't talking about that. But Sommers has an PHD and is an ex-philo professors.

The fact that you dismiss someone who clearly has years more experience and credibility than you with "wholly concerned with painting up a strawman" should tell anyone that you yourself are quite biased.

>>1007579

>is that i don't agree with them

is that you*

>>1007579

and evenmore, the video which i was talking about had nothing to do with feminism.

The fact that you straight away started talking about anti-feminism is a fairly clear indication that you think people caring about men's education is somehow anti-feminist.

The Japanese achieved perfection in whatever it was they're were trying to achieve.

>>1005381
>Have you seen the Roman era mosaics

these were never really that impressive, their statues were but the mosaics have always been barely above the manuscript drawings from the middle ages

>>1007579
>>1007593
No, because I know of her from her other videos, and I have seen Sargon of Akkad, as an example, using that video (without referencing it explicitly) as anti-feminist, and I have been in discussions where people try to wage this video as anti-feminist.

It isn't inherently anti-feminist, most feminist would argue, that most forms of discrimination towards men fit into their analysis of society. Men being deemed to have ADHD might be because they are raised paradoxically: to be hyperactive and yet be forced to be calm in the classroom, to be dominant and to be submissive etc.

She is an anti-feminist, end of discussion. She is totally wrong on the theory of intersectionality as an example.

That video has become a "source" for MRAs and anti-feminists.

Caring about males' education is NOT anti-feminist, but is rather a component of the sexist structures feminists describe; and this sexism might discriminatory and hurtful for both genders.

If so, try to find any sources on what she's talking about or any research she has actually done in the areas she speaks of. She may be a professor in philosophy, but she is hardly a factual source. Neither is Michael Thompson.

You cannot appeal to their authority. Michael Thompson is a psychologist, not a sociologist.
Christina Hoff Sommers is bascially a pop philosopher spreading her particular view of feminism, often with factual errors (just look at the reviews/criticisms of her books).

Disclaimer: I have not read their books, but they are not pivotal works in the canon of feminism, neither will I care to read them. And neither do I care to read Sommers' books due to how she presents feminist ideas wrongly.

Being a philosopher does NOT give you the right to speak about feminism. But you can as a philosopher a professional in it. She is a pop-philosopher for conservatives and most certainly biased.

>>1002048
In old Japanese erotic art the women always have these massive snatches.

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>>1007683
Yeah... right

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>>1001997
It makes me think that the west doesn't have paitings of Sea fruits in battle against vegetables, including death rays and tidal waves...

Weird how something as conventional as japanese art made western artists break all conventions

>>1006031
realism wasnt bad before photography
but after camera was invented it lost all the sense

>>1002014
Woah there weeb. Slow down.

>>1005516
>is different because is oooollllldddd artistic expression

>>1006096
It's almost a knee jerk reaction of theirs. And it's not just to defend the art that they likely associate with their own cultures. Though that helps. Because it is an insult worth defending this facet of their mother culture at the first suggestion that another culture's art isn't inherently worse. And how bad it is always hinges back on the deadest of horses, realism.

What a joke.

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Japanese sculpture and architecture are quite nice, but painting wasn't exactly their niche.

It took the combined efforts of all of Europe like 400 years to get painting down, kind of hard to figure out perspective and oil paints down when you're an isolated island surrounded by your enemies. Besides, there are plenty of lovely Japanese paintings that aren't wood cuttings, just in a different style than European paintings.

That being said, Chinese painting is much, much better than Japanese and in the same style.

Also, neoclassical art is shit, Baroque and Mannerist paintings were much better.

>>1007143
>muh credentials

That's one massive ad hominem. Either address the points raised in the video, or shut the fuck up.

>>1009209
Ad hominem is saying that she is wrong because of some characteristic.
Example:
>You are wrong because you are a woman.

It is possible to have justified beliefs through authorities. I advice the shoemaker when making shoes, and I am justified in believing the shoemaker.

Source criticism is partly questioning the credentials of said person. It is being agnostic about the truth of their claims (that is, I don't say she's wrong about boys in school. I do however say she's wrong about intersectionality).

I do however doubt her authority, and justifying ones beliefs by adress her as an authority figure in feminism because:
She is a part of conservative propaganda.
She is a self-proclaimed feminist while the feminist canon claims she's an anti-feminist.
She is literally lying about being a feminist, and thus has ruined her own credibility; she's a liar/demagogue.

Demagogues may still speak truth, but they do not care whether it is true or not.

Listening to her is listening to propaganda. She might be right, she might be wrong. It is still propaganda and I would rather seek other sources.

This is not an ad hominem attack, it is source criticism.

Please leave high school before coming to /his/.
That's still not an ad hominem attack, that is an insult (I never claimed you were wrong BECAUSE you're a high schooler).

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>>1006109

>>1007812
It wasn't until all the radiation that they got small dicks.

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>>1001997
There is a huge amount of weird and shit Western art from the early modern. I mean, look at this piece of garbage.

The Japan sample is also cherry-picked. Whoever made the image clearly thinks rendering and detail are priority #1. By 1790 Western techniques were very well known and common in Japan and they could surely have found much more western-looking Japanese art if they cared to look.

>>1002048
The euros made tons of mythology fetish porn. Satyrs, endless Leda and the swan scenes etc.

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>>1006109

>>1004112
>gunboats

>>1002023
We must have looked like fucking maniacs to them.