What's your favorite programming language and why isn't

Java

Java

>>62361654
Greetings my friend, glad to see there are more of us here

C#

>>62361654
HTML

>>62361676
what, indians?

>>62361704

Did... did... did you just say HTML is a programming language?

>why isn't it Java?

Because I wasn't born with down syndrome.

We mostly use Python in my current company.

>>62361741
Did you develop it later in life?

>>62361654
Because I like memory.

>>62361775
No, did you?

C# is best for hobby programming desu
Python can be fun too for some different stuff.
Java is like having a lvl 0 character in a video game, it's something to start out with and know but not branching out to other (better) languages afterwards is shooting yourself in the foot.

>>62361654
Jesus Christ that icon design is giving me cancer.

>>62361808
No, I was born with it.

>>62361654
>Start out with Java
>Do C++ in school
>get meme'd into C by /g/
>Like Java even more now
I don't do embedded stuff, so I love Java (no opinion on Embedded Java).

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>>62361654
>massive amounts of heap
>no delete

>>62361654
Scheme is the most beautiful language ever, but CL is probably my favorite. OOP is shit, so I don't like Java.

>>62361654
Perl 6

Is fucking fun. (And can run in the JVM)

>>62361884
I use 5 a lot for my administration scripts; what does 6 bring to the table (other than the fun and JVM)? Haven't looked into it.

>>62361889
Modern concepts. Auto threading, actual OOP (with mixins), a proper text processing framework (called GRAMMARS), saner regular expressions, lazyness, macros (not lisp macros, but i understand that is something the developers want), saner 'special' variables, lots of convenience shortcuts, metaoperators.

Is a bit too much for sysadmin tasks, but i guess is still usable for that. It is now a proper full fledged programmming language for big systems.

>>62361654
>postulating an initial open ended question then changing the question to one that presumes a specific non-answer to the initial question disregarding that the initial question is open ended and has no definitive correct answer, including aforementioned specific non-answer

>>62361922
Sounds pretty cool, I'll check it out. Thanks for the answer.

>>62361654
I'm looking into taking some programming courses at my community college and Java is one of the options as a certificate program, as is C++. I honestly don't know jobs there are for these languages and I'm getting up there in age(25 now). There is also a program for Web Design that does have some programming courses as well and those are all Java. What would yield the more promising future?

sure smells of poo in here...

C

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>>62361775

>>62361654
Java is best
Kindly regards friends

>>62362026
Didn't notice it until you came in here, shitlord.

Java is my favorite

>>62361849
maybe hes born with it too.
maybe its maybelline

Currently learning VB.net
Is it a very valuable language?

>>62361654
Common Lisp and C. You can't ignore how limited Java is once you've any decent language.

The JVM and the Java bytecode instruction set are the real stars. Java itself is irrelevant.

>>62362061
R E K T
E K T R
K T R E
T R E K

>>62361826
This.

>>62361654

python

its quick, reads well, and has a great community

come at me dorks

Python.

Very easy to use and it allows rapid prototyping of ideas. Very mice Image Processing libraries, too. I wish my university abandoned MATLAB completely in favor of python.

>>62361654

>program in elixir
>erlang vm runs directly on hypervisor
>spawn lightweight processes a dime a dozen
>each process has it's own state
>each process has it's own gc
>supervision tree is super comfy
>life is good


>program in java
>java vm starts slooow
>processes are kinda heavyweight
>processes share thread pool
>a metric fuckton of (bad) concurrency mechanisms to make shit work
>4 different garbage collectors with options
>each garbage collector stops the world
>life is an UML diagram
>checked and unchecked exceptions
>spill out ugly stack traces
>I want to go home
>life sucks

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>>62362780
this guy gets it

>>62361808
>no u
Ye done goofed.

>>62361654
C++.
It's ugly as fuck and has a steep learning curve but I can express anything I want, at any level of abstraction. It's the ultimate swiss army knife and I can use it anywhere.

>>62362780
I appreciate python a lot and I wish I could do most of my work in it, but my current favourite is Scheme

>>62361654
java is fine to work with due to the ecosystem, but there are a few legacy things i hate about it.
also i love the elegance of haskell, that made it hard for me to find other languages enjoyable ever since.

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Ruby

Pretty straightforward to use

>>62361654
Scala. Because it generally makes more sense than Java, plus it has a lot of nice language features.

Go

Because it is a slow, bloated, and ugly language with godawful APIs.

>>62361654
I will make C# My favorite hopefully I will learn it to a good degree

Anyone who thinks Java is their favourite obviously hasn't tried C#. C# is a direct upgrade.

>>62361865
It's amazing to me that CLOS is one of the most sane implementations of OOP I've ever seen. CL is truly patrician.

>>62364965
In the same way that C++ is a direct upgrade to C.

>>62364980
>C++ommmon Lisp
>Patrician
Go use a pure lisp fag

>>62361654
> Decide to learn Java
> Seems like a great language
> Want to do GUI stuff
> Greatest code fuckfest I have ever seen
> Creating GUI anything takes 10x longer than it should
> End result looks like absolute cancer
> Need to do networking things
> It too is a fuckfest because signed everything
> Need to bitshift everything and pack unsigned things into signed things and add redundant "If below zero do" code
> Look at other projects to find suggestions on how to network correctly
> Almost all of them are using networking libraries written in C or C++ because Java networking is so much cancer
> The ones that don't have server and client written in Java exchanging only signed data
> Decide to try C# despite the /g/ meme about "microsoft botnets" and because I've heard good things about it with .NET Core
> Literally "Java done correctly"
> Everything is a lot less redundant, you don't have built in library functions requiring news as arguments, which takes news as arguments, which takes news, etc
> Built in library functions actually returns sensible values like arrays and strings, instead of "StringFactoryFactoryBean"
> Has unsigned so networking is a breeze, also you don't have to waste memory on longs and ints when a short or a byte will suffice
> Making a GUI for something is 1000x easier and looks 1000x better than anything Java could accomplish
> Literally the only downside is that you cannot easily make GUIs for Linux and OSX, but that's just a matter of time given the .NET Core direction

And that's why I will probably never touch Java again unless absolutely required.

Is it me or does this thread smell like poo?

>>62361654
Java[spoiler]script[/spoilers]

>>62365378
i agree that GUI should never be done in java. but it's great for networking and servers. what library were you using? never seen any that require anything to be signed.

>>62361993
Anything that isn't web design.

>>62365549
UI in java isn't too bad IMO, OOP is a natural fit for GUIs
what's the problem exactly?

C# is the better and easier version of java. java is lacking basic features

>>62365666
the only C# features I'm pining for are unsigned types and reified generics

the rest is bloat

>>62361654
C++ and C#

>>62365378
wait a second, GUI in C# ? You mean ASP.NET MVC ?

>>62365664
desu i've only done ui with swing and that seemed kinda bad. i would probably just use js for ui instead. maybe it's not as bad as i thought but just doesn't seem ideal.

>>62365687
dynamic. structs. unsafe. Tons of convenience features.

I made an AI that programs everything for me in any language I want

>>62365784
Did you name it Pajeet?

>>62365782
If I wanted dynamic typing, I wouldn't be using a statically typed language.
If I wanted value types and pointers, I'd be using C++.

>>62365804
Instead you can just learn C# and have it all.

>>62365826
>have it all.
lacking semantic consistency is not a good thing

>>62365549
I was just using the default serversocket. The problem was that the client was written in C++ and as such communciated with a mixture of data, both signed and unsigned, which was a huge issue in Java.

You could receive them just fine, but were forced to put the data in places where they didn't belong, Eg. putting an unsigned int into a long, and then write extra code to ensure the data (which was passed around a lot) never got set to a negative value. The alternative was to bitshift to sort of force an unsigned into a signed, but then you had to write a ton of redundant functions everywhere to actually manipulate the data.

It was even worse when you wrote data to the socket, because you were forced to bitshift almost all the data down from larger variables into psuedo-unsigned signed ints/shorts/bytes before you could pass them to the socket or packet-creator.

It was a mess.

>>62365664
The default layout managers are shit though, you need Mig-Layout.
I don't know why on earth that isn't in the standard library

Because I only know Java and I want to fit. Maybe one day I'll learn C++ or build my own computer.

>>62361654
daily reminder that anyone who shits on java for no reason doesnt know what they're talking about and their opinion should be disregarded

>>62366161
java sucks in some ways but you should disregard the opinions of those who can't express why

>>62366161
Java is used by poo-in-loos

>>62366161
t. Pajeet

>>62361654
I don't like programming languages that need a vm/an interpreter. I much prefer languages that compile to native opcodes.

>>62365761
WPF. It's literally the best GUI toolkit ever. Is there anything that even comes close in other languages?

>>62364812
True.

>>62362795
>Elixir
Bullshit for hipsters, real BEAM'mancers use Erlang and LFE.

c# is better

C# because is Java but better

>>62368019
>>62368044
C# is full off bullshit that harms readability
Java could definitely do with signed types though

c# is better

>>62368045
this must be the most retarded shit I have seen so far on this board.

Java

SCRIPT, suckers

>>62368108
not an argument

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>>62365797

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>>62362035
Have a beer my friend.
C is the cleanest and most beautiful language out there (next comes assembly).

>>62361654

> Retards are the majority
> Majority decides the tech stack
> The tech stack sucks because Retards

We're doomed.

>>62365032
Not really considering C# has a far cleaner standard library, better library management (via nuget), and more sane implementations of common things (like datetime). It also is just better with standard language features like unchecked exceptions, anonymous types, lambda expressions (does Java even have this yet?), async/await, and much more!

>>62368704
>and more sane implementations of common things (like datetime)
structs in languages like these are the last things I'd call sane
>It also is just better with standard language features like unchecked exceptions
Checked exceptions are one of the few good implementations of exceptions in general. Robust programs > hacked together pieces of shit
>lambda expressions (does Java even have this yet?)
yes, and functional interfaces are far more elegant than delegates

>>62368555
Tips have spoken

>>62366960
desu we had everything Microsoft in uni then just continued with it...and never had a problem.
Azure, Visual Studio, Team Services, C#, ASP.NET MVC, never had a problem that Microsoft were responsible for

I don't get why Java is so popular, is this because android?

>>62368904
Truly Cross Platform, GC and extensive standard library

>>62368744
A struct is fine. The supporting library for manipulating time is what matters.
Checked exceptions are 9/10 times just extra boilerplate to write, and having used plenty of Java programs I can say they don't make the code any more robust.
I looked into it, and lacking delegates appears to be more of an impedance than the realization of cleaner design. I also looked into Java's answer to linq, which is streams, which appear to be pretty hacked together. There's no support for extensions, because Java doesn't have them. There's no ability to do things like linq to sql. You're given this new thing, which isn't really consistent with the rest of the language, and told "you can do anything", but really you can't do anything. It's only a quarter of what you need to really develop with Java in a functional way.

What's Qt like compared to GUI programming in Java or C#?

>>62361654
C#, because C# exists.

>>62368744
This post is silly.

I'll explain why if anyone cares.

>>62368045
>full off bullshit that harms readability
C# has sugar that specifically makes things easier to read.

>>62368704
1. not cross-platform. i know the CLR was open sourced but it's not quite there yet.
2. ever heard of maven?
3. datetime is fixed in java 7 (or is it 8? can't remember)
4. java has most of that shit you mentioned since java 8
5. java is more mature and has a larger ecosystem
6. java is used much more commonly in industry

>>62369208
>Checked exceptions are 9/10 times just extra boilerplate to write, and having used plenty of Java programs I can say they don't make the code any more robust.
What boilerplate? With a checked exception you have two options.
>Don't catch it
One more clause to add to the method signature, and that's t. You should be documenting this anyway, you're a shitty API author if you're not telling me if/what you're going to throw.
>Catch it
Literally no difference.

Exceptions were a garbage idea from the start, but with checked exceptions they almost become ideal.

>>62369302
Making what looks like a bare member variable access liable to perform any kind of computation and throw exceptions does not make anything easier to read, it's the kind of C++-esque bullshit that makes any portion of a program a struggle to reason about without flicking between 4 or 5 different source files.

>>62361654
Java is alright
But most guys here never reach a project complexity where they'd benefit from it.

>>62369308
>Not cross platform
Yes it is. Dotnet [executable] and your code is run.
>Maven
It's not bad, but it's no nuget.
>Datetime was fixed.
The old shit is still in there. Java's ability to deprecate half it's standard library every ten years while keeping all the junk AND still breaking legacy code is miraculous.
>Java 8
Adds streams, functional interfaces and lambdas, which are cribbed from scala but only go half way to actually being useful like they are in scala. Not to mention they open up the ability to do pseudo multiple inheritance of functionality, which I personally believe is not a good idea.
>More mature, more common
Means nothing. COBOL and FORTRAN are even more mature than Java and were used everywhere for a long time even though they sucked. If maturity means you have a minefield of a framework and absolutely shit docs, a runtime which is compromised monthly, updates which break your code, and a community of poos who worship Java because it was their ticket to a job, then I don't want Java's maturity.

>>62370048
>And your code is run
Fuck.

>>62370048
>The old shit is still in there. Java's ability to deprecate half it's standard library every ten years while keeping all the junk AND still breaking legacy code is miraculous.
>Java backwards compatibility is worse than C#
OK kid

>>62369238

JavaFX Scene Builder.

>>62361654
Clojure. Runs on the JVM, Excellent Java interop, awesome FP libs.

>>62370048
>Yes it is. Dotnet [executable] and your code is run.
i've heard that there's a lot of stuff missing from the cross platform ecosystem but i'm not sure since i don't actually use C#. maybe another anon can speak to that.
>>Maven
>It's not bad, but it's no nuget.
okay, how so? keep in mind there's also other shit like gradle if maven isn't enough for you.
>>Datetime
>The old shit is still in there.
backwards compatability is a bad thing now? take a look at python 2 vs 3. you think that's a good thing?
>>Java 8
most of that shit is not useful. functional programming is a meme. sure, java's implementation of it isn't ideal, but it does have it. not that it should matter anyways.
not sure what you're talking about with multiple inheritance, haven't seen that anywhere.
>>More mature, more common
you're just making shit up here. java has great docs everywhere, updates do not break anything. those are actually benefits of maturity. the big 4 tech giants use java literally everywhere. it's an industry standard. C# (as i've seen) is mostly used by government agencies and companies who were tricked by MS

>>62369340
Oh, really. Checked exceptions are almost ideal? Damn , someone should inform literally every language designer since the inception of Java then. Clearly they haven't gotten the memo that checked exceptions are the future. Imagine if JavaScript had checked exceptions!

Nobody wants them because they're a complete waste of time at best, and lead to annoyed devs just using Pokemon exception handlers at worst.

Java is ded.
Long live C#.

>>62370212
>not sure what you're talking about with multiple inheritance, haven't seen that anywhere.
Interfaces can have default method implementations now. All the problems of real multiple inheritance (diamond problem) without any of the flexibility.

>>62370238
not an argument

>>62361654
i dislike java cuz it doesn't run without the runtime environment, but i like it cuz android apps use it

>>62369478
It doesn't look like a bare member variable access though. Properties are written in PascalCase, variables are written in camelCase.

Swift programming language.

>>62370352
>types and methods have the same naming convention
Thanks for reminding me how ugly C# is.

>>62370262
>Interfaces can have default method implementations now. All the problems of real multiple inheritance (diamond problem) without any of the flexibility.
A class implementing two interfaces with the same default method name and signature much provide its own implementation. No problem here.

>>62361654
Java is inexpressive enough that it forces the programmer to overdoes on programming patterns. If you work with the JVM, choose Clojure or at least Kotlin. (Scala is 2bloated4me.)

>>62370409
What's wrong with that? Types and methods are completely different things. You're not going to mix those up.

>>62361730
it lets you express yourself with code just as well as any other so-called "language", shitlord. enjoy never being able to change the world with influential web applications, since you obviously think you're so superior. in the meantime i'll be coding in my favorite language, HTML

>>62370513
b8

>>62370513
HTML is inefficient because it will always run in a virtual machine, the browser. Unless you are using lynx to execute your HTML code, there is just too much overhead.

>>62370482
It's better just not to argue with naming convention faggots, anon. There are far more egregious examples, such as avoiding "typedef struct" in the Linux kernel when you'd have to be a total retard to ever confuse a struct instance with some other kind of variable. Unless you do all sorts of casting to void* and back, which is already frowned upon with good reason.

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>>62370593
>he doesn't JIT his HTML to machine code

>>62370212
>Missing from core
The only things I'm missing from core and dotnet standard are gui libraries because both are divorced from Windows COM. Something like 70% of nuget packages build on it with no change. A lot was dropped of course, but you're better of not using those things. Every framework accumulates cruft, and this is the spring cleaning with a purpose.
>Gradle
Yeah there are options, but it's just not very comfy compared to nuget. I can agree that this is mostly subjective to personal preference though.
>Backwards compatibility is bad?
No, but Java historically breaks things despite their refusal to clean up the framework, and see my description of core above. Sometimes you need to break. Not like Python though. That was just absolutely retarded and achieved basically nothing.
>Functional programming is a meme.
As an ideology, sure. As a tool? Nope. Some problems pretty much solve themselves with a little functional thinking. Just like aspect oriented programming can be useful for killing cross cutting concerns, functional is useful for keeping consistency when making complex multithreaded manipulations on data.
>Java docs are great
Okay they're actually mostly great now. I was on the docs.oracle.com site earlier for "FunctionalInterface" earlier and the page gave me basically nothing on what such a thing is for, just technical language details. More research shows the Java documentation has come a long way.
>Doesn't break
Tell that to every vendor I've ever worked with who lists "compatible versions of Java", where the list doesn't contain any version at the current security patch level.

>>62370262
>Not an argument
It is though. Nobody puts checked exceptions in their language. Can you explain why that is? I can! Checked exceptions were a failed experiment and everyone is glad Java took one for the team by trying.

>>62370633
>Nobody puts checked exceptions in their language.
Nobody puts exceptions in their language any more either. Go uses multiple return and Rust uses variant types. Both of these are infinitely better solutions than unchecked exceptions.

Checked exceptions can be seen as a brainlet's variant return types, if you like.

>>62370668
For sure. Checked exceptions are literally variant return types, except more verbose syntax and the possibility that following "best practices" (not catching everything) will still cause your application to crash. Good riddance to that shit; definitely something that Go got right and Rust got even more right.

>>62362438
.NET as a whole is valuable. Most companies will use C# but the difference is almost 100% just syntax. I started with VB.NET but I've done C++ since then, which has pretty similar syntax to C#, so I can write in either.

>>62370668
>2017
>tfw still no resumable exceptions
Multiple return is absolutely a better alternative to exceptions when it's a true language feature. I know nothing about variant return types though and I'm having trouble trying to research the concept. Got any links?

>>62365378
>>62366960
Agreed. WinForms was alright but WPF is pretty awesome. Java is terrible.

>>62361704
>Not even Turing complete
>programming

>>62370794
I'm glad you see my point even if you don't agree.
Personally, I think getting halfway to good error handling is better then all but ignoring errors.

>>62370839
https://doc.rust-lang.org/std/result/
It's pretty common in actual functional programming languages too.

>>62368904
> I don't get why Java is so popular, is this because android?

Before Android Java was mostly known in enterprise circles and as a beginner language you learned in school because it was relatively simple and used by a lot of enterprises.

Now it's super huge and known by everyone and used in a lot more fields precisely because Android made it well known and popular for App development.

>>62371067
And then oracle tried to sue Google. Let's see how long android will be using java

>>62371067
this is wrong. android uses java because it was already so well known and popular. they figured devs wouldn't have to learn a new language to start making apps. java is huge mostly because of Spring.

>>62361654

I don't like to call any language terrible, they each serve their own niche. That being said I like Python3, it does everything I want and it's easy as fuck to program in and there are plenty of resources out there. Couldn't ask for much more.

>>62370925
The major innovation I'm seeing here is the requirement that you deal with the success/error output of a method. Otherwise this functionality could be pretty easily emulated by other languages using a development pattern.

>>62371293
C++ has a similar thing with std::variant, and I'm sure most languages have their own language support for variant types. You can certainly do it that way, but you don't have the first class support in the language and in the libraries.

I like Rust's style because of how definitive and expressive it is. You have an error or you have a value, you handle either case separately, and you have your sugar for letting the error bubble up or simply asserting that you won't get an error so you don't get bogged down in boilerplate.
Everything you need to know about what contracts your function is fulfilling is visible here and now, and your function emits a contract that is just as absolute. As a core part of the language, not as a bandwagon boarded 20 years late.

Perl, but I think I'm just used to it at this point. I'll probably end up using Javascript for everything in another 5 years unless Perl 6 finally takes off

>>62361860
I don't see what the problem with no delete. I mean why would you want to control your program?