Systemd hate thread.

>>62279701
If systemd is so bad how come so many of the major distros have adopted it? I don't get it.

>>62279714
what has systemd improved? it's created issues for server admins everywhere for seemingly zero reason beyond some stupid desktop-user shit.

I wrote this post on a systemd Debian desktop.

>>62279701
>not posting his wangblows screenshot while he spreads fud against free software and openly admit his low level shilling job.
If it's not right, then install gentoo.

>>62279701
That's a DHCP client config issue, not a systemD issue. Fix your config.

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>>62279714
They had to kill Debian's founder to get it in.

>>62279741
>what has systemd improved
Creating services.

>>62279755
(((services)))
we had daemons for almost 50 years now anon

>>62279748
He worked on solaris after debian.

>>62279755
you mean those unit files? I've found no actual benefit to them over the old init scripts.

>>62279788
Good for you.

>>62279701
>not-a-bug

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>>62279801
>Good for you
are you fucking Poettering himself?

>>62279701
not-a-bug. Mods lock this thread

>>62279818
>i don't know how you figured out to do this
>poettering is such a fag that he doesn't know useradd
this is just fucking sad

>>62279701
>If you unplug your ethernet cable systemd will wait over five minutes for it to be plugged in on boot, so you get irritated and plug it in so Google can receive the ping from your machine.
fake and gay. Here's your (You), buy yourself a systemd manual with it.

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Will they ever remove the botnet from systemd?

>>62279907
>make buggy 1/2 million lines of code replacement for init
>LOL Y SO TRIGGERED? CAN'T YOU FIGURE OUT THIS MOVING TARGET WHICH I JUST CHANGED?
this is literally how systemd proponents act, it's insane

>>62279701
I'm noticing this trend on /g/ where mongoloids who don't understand how their system works blame things on systemd.
If you aren't going to bother learning how to do networking in Linux then be a good little goy and let the damn software handle things for you. Avahi was literally made specifically for idiots like yourself, OP.

>>62279701
>If you unplug your ethernet cable systemd will wait over five minutes for it to be plugged in on boot, so you get irritated and plug it in so Google can receive the ping from your machine.
Never happened to me.

>>62280079
>don't understand
It's more about objecting to changing everything so phablets can boot faster.

systemd is fast and comes with all the tools you need. Why does everyone get their panties in a twist over it?

>>62279748
>Murdock
it's something hardcore about his last name

>>62279701
systemd has nothing to do with networking you retard

>>62280116
Because pottering touched me in my no no repo

>>62279741
I'm using systemd for a server and it is working perfectly.

>>62279969
Nothing will ever be removed from systemd, only added.

>>62280132
>he doesn't know

>>62280171
>works perfectly
yeah, except for the times it doesn't, which used to be way more of a common issue and you'd have to write your own unit files.

What _benefits_? We've put up with broken packages, security issues and ongoing concerns over privacy/monolithic services (make NTP part of systemd, fallbacking to unconfigured DNS query (fucking _google_ of all places).

So why did we put up with this shit? Because some PulseAudio jerk was annoyed that users couldn't hot-plug a microphone into their hotplugged 360 controller and automatically get GNOME to display a prompt.

>>62280116
It comes with too much and it's too invasive. I'm ok using both OpenRC and runit. runit is even faster than systemd I have all the tools I need. Why should I want a monstrosity with 400k lines of C code instead?
systemd is utterly useless to regular users

>>62280232
>systemd is utterly useless to regular users
>Regular users

If retards didn't go to Linux before getting basic education then systemd would not had been created to assist retards automatically.

Why don't people just make a better and more different init system?

Even better, make it some kind of easily installed and preconfigured package so that people who want to just rip systemd out and replace it with your version can do it easily without hiccups.

Quit whining about systemd and start coding something better.

>>62280285
>why you don't just try and compete with RedHat
Retard.

>>62280307
Well, why don't you?

Quit being a stupid lazy ass who can only whine and complain about problems he expects other people to fix.

>>62280285
If people can remote code execute then they could implement their own init script and completely jack your server.

/g/ Linux users are some of the most bastardised community. Whinge about everything even when they haven't even read basic websites explaining the history of stuff.

If init was so good then why was systemd made and implemented?
Why didn't some make an improvement on init?
>Systemd?

People are just lazy and are resistant to Linux evolution. Literally I have heard so much bitching over Microsoft join open source. What kind of whinging cunts complains about the freedom of the GPL licensing.

>>62280333
There are plenty of systemd replacements available, imbecile.
Try to figure out what is actually happening before posting stupid shit.

>>62280350
Then quit whining about systemd - you said it yourself there's a bunch of replacements available, so there's no problem here.

Just go use the other available replacements instead of throwing a bitch fit

>>62280383
Then quit whining about this threead - there are a bunch of other threads available.

>>62280383
Have you not already notice that the Linux users here are complete retards.

They are the users that fix kernel problems by reinstalling their distro.

>>62280406
If you don't like systemd, either get off your ass and replace it, or shut the fuck up.

>>62280422
systemd is SHIT. Only niggers defend it.

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>>62280432
Press F to pay for Linux education

>>62280447
what

>>62280462
>>62280447
>>62280447
>>62280447
>>62280447

>>62280473
Fuck off, Poetering, you're drunk.

>>62279701
Well, it has to ping something to test things. Google is always the default site for that because it's always up and running.

>>62280116
Breaks the whole Unix idiom.

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>>62280462
>systemd is SHIT. Only niggers defend it.

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>>62280486
>He uses sytemd and seems to not hate it
>Best insult him because he isn't whinging like I am

>>62280501
Why are posting pictures of systemd developers?

>>62280497
Good thing BSD is significantly smaller than Ubuntu LOL.

>>62280508
I got that puppy from Apple's lead designer bio.

>>62279763
That went rogue and double forked.

>muh sysvinit
>muh minimalism

>>62280211
>security issues
legacy spaghetti units were more of a concern, security wise. The "security" worries are constantly taunted by good-for-nothing detractors, invariably with no evidence.
>privacy/monolithic services
It's not violating your privacy. It is indeed pretty monolithic, but it's, like, its job. systemd is a system and service manager and it solves all the shortcomings of upstart, sysvinit and the like.
>make NTP part of systemd, fallbacking to unconfigured DNS query (fucking _google_ of all places).
red herring, no one is placing google anywhere.
>hot-plug microphone
ultimate shitposting.

>>62280211
>le epic fallback to google dns maymay
Stop using nigger distros like Ubuntu.
That shit is configurable, and requires four conditions before fallback to Google DNS, retard.

It's not problem on my own machines where I use gentoo but on work servers run on redhat so I can't really escape systemd...

>>62279741
Oh yeah. Why are all the people explaing systemd on Youtube saying it has greatly enhanced their productivity with system-administration?
But I agree with you on this: if systemd is an init system, then it should do just that: INIT the fucking system.

I dont have any problems with systemd.
I wish that Lennart and his friends make a stable and developing branches, to guarantee less issues.
And I would like they had at least 10 developers writting documentation (but thats an endemic problem in FOSS)

>>62280586
but you don't have a job, anon

>>62280640
>And I would like they had at least 10 developers writting documentation (but thats an endemic problem in FOSS)
hold on right there
I've never seen such an extensive documentation like we actually have with systemd.

>>62280678
Links? Would like to view it.

>>62280678
>super complicated thing needs an enormous amount of documentation
>it's still out of date
wew

>>62280751
>things dont need documentation
The state of FOSS

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>>62280701
do you really need a link? they are very detailed as well. There's also RH's guide with a step-by-step how-to, freedesktop.org and eventually literally Poettering's site.
>>62280751
>oh snap! the documentation actually exist
>better say it's too much
documentation is never "too much"
>better say it's out of date
it's not out of date as well. And contrary to popular belief, if you peep on IRC for help you'll likely find some nice guy helping you out

>>62279818
Woah so this is the power on systemd fuckbois.

>>62280783
BSD has good documentation, so does 9front.

>>62280810
>come ask lennart about problems on the irc
>he tells you your issue is your fault and that he's already opened and closed a ticket with your issue and it's therefore fixed
>problem solved

>>62280848
that never happened. Mind you, I have all the logs of the systemd channel since forever, so I can check and call you out.

>>62280864
>Mind you, I have all the logs of the systemd channel since forever
HARDCORE SYSTEMD SHILL EXPOSED

!!KEK ALERT!!!

>>62280864
Do you get notification every time someone makes a thread about systemd?
You guys are awfully fast at responding to every single comment.

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>>62280891
chicom connection confirmed too

>>62280915
The whole internet is like this now, for at least 5-7 years.

Find some dead forum with no posts in a year or two, register a new account, and post about 9/11 and the shills will come.

>>62280891
I log over 9000 channels, including #openrc e #devuan.
>>62280915
I do it for free.

>>62280810
Is there documentation in tuturial form?
I like the tutorial form, as I seen in GNU Lilypond. When you know how to make basic shit, thnbks to the tutorial, the general manual is useful as fuck.

>>62280963
>I was pretending to be retarded
i see

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>>62279701
>the municipality of Linuxkeks

>>62280232
>a monstrosity with 400k lines of C code
>says while using a monstrosity with 15M lines of C code
Get your priorities straight senpai

>>62280349
>People are just lazy and are resistant to Linux evolution.
>better make monolithic point of failure so when it crashes it burns to the ground

>>62280537
>what is start-stop-daemon

>>62280132
which system starts the networking service? correct, the init system! which networking service does it use? correct again, the one it comes with! boy, you sure are smart!

>>62280981
Do you get paid to shitpost non-sequitur comments on a taiwanese forum? I called you out, there's no need to get that defensive for your anonymous shitposting persona. If you ever had an issue, I'd have been able to grep the log and check what's your vaguely referenced issue
Curious, it's always a vaguely referenced issue
>>62280971
>tutorial form, as I seen in GNU Lilypond
Not that I'm aware of, at least not in that form. Still there are a bunch of step-by-step guides. RH's Administration Guide shows the ropes for people who have to deal with unit files immediately. Arch guides are (as usual) excellent.

>>62281052
Why do systemd proponents deliberately mischaracterize people's arguments?

I can't remember a single thread like this where Lennart has admitted that his system is, perhaps, overly complicated, has too many lines of code for its functions, etc.

Truth is, it's a plot to write a whole new OS one stage at a time. The day will approach when the Linux kernel is no longer even needed.

It's probably for the best, the kernel has gotten huge and messy and it'd be impossible even for a large organization to even usefully audit it any more.

>>62281041
Those 15M lines are mostly drivers and even then they allow tens of thousands of different devices to work with the rest of the system.
Meanwhile systemd needs 400k lines of C just to start several daemons in a certain sequence.

>>62280578
it shouldn't be falling back to _anything_, you know what it should do? Not resolve domain names.

DNS queries are a major surveillance risk, valuable and easy to stole/monitor metadata. Tor users get busted via DNS half the time.

>>62279701
its annoying but usually happens only if you dont use their network manager.

>>62279747
the unlimited timers on startup & shutdown are always a systemd issue

>>62279741
Journalctl'ing is pretty useful, and with a proper ecosystem it's much more easy to migrate to other systems. Don't have to learn new shit

>>62279701
because google gives two shits about you / your computer

>>62279818
>default NAME_REGEX for adduser on all Linux platforms is ^[a-z][-a-z0-9]*$
>0day name borks things up
>systemd at fault
wew

>>62281241
Journalctl is pure shit, built for people unable to config *syslog*

>>62281279
Every distro has different restrictions, but those apply to adduser anyway.
You can add a user "the old school way" by editing passwd and bypass the restrictions.
Systemd should just follow the POSIX definition and stop making up arbitrary restrictions because Lennart felt it was a neat idea that one time.

>>62279701
what really burns my ass is when you add an fstab entry and systemd refuses to boot because it can't mount some random disk i unplugged now. what the fuck, systemd? this never used to be a problem unless there was an issue mounting the root volume, which is entirely fucking reasonable

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>>62279701
Fucking fake bullshit. What's with all the anti systemd shills?

>>62281358
People dislike shit software.

>>62281358
your fucking fake ya CIAnigger when will you tards learn not everyone is easily rused. Also its getting a little old with the cat pictures. faggot.

>>62281358
>becomes standard overnight
>made some fuck head at RedHat
Makes one wonder how did all that happen so fast,who is behind it?

>>62280130
sounds like a pokemon

>>62281394
*you're
Hahahahahahaha what a fuck tard. I guess systemd shills are pretty dumb.

>>62281326
care to elaborate why is journalctl "shit"

>>62281086
>he believes that daemons who double forked can be stopped.

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>>62279701
>He doesn't use Void or any other independent distro that doesn't need to ride Red Hat's dick to get their OS functional

>>62280626
>greatly enhanced their productivity with system-administration
fucking how?

>>62281333
Where can I find the format standard for the passwd file? What are the explicit disallowed characters?

>>62279907
From debian's useradd sources:

static bool is_valid_name (const char *name)
{
    /*
     * User/group names must match [a-z_][a-z0-9_-]*[$]
     */
    if (('\0' == *name) ||
        !((('a' <= *name) && ('z' >= *name)) || ('_' == *name))) {
        return false;
    }

    while ('\0' != *++name) {
        if (!(( ('a' <= *name) && ('z' >= *name) ) ||
              ( ('0' <= *name) && ('9' >= *name) ) ||
              ('_' == *name) ||
              ('-' == *name) ||
              ( ('$' == *name) && ('\0' == *(name + 1)) )
             )) {
            return false;
        }
    }

    return true;
}

Yet I could add the name '0day' with useradd on my machine. Weird.

>>62281152
Unless youre using a nigger distro, systemd doesnt resolve dns. That shit needs to be enabled in first place.

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>>62281358
I hope my horrible ugliness won't be a distraction to you.

>>62281400
>it happened so fast
7 years is fast?

>>62281459
>>62279701

Is this just hate against Redhat? You're angry because someone want's to make money on a product, that they've modified and provided support? Are you people really the type of people to shit on businesses just because they are making money off of something they are putting time to`?

>>62281483
You expect shills to be honest about what they attack?

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>>62281497
I, and the GNU Project have absolutely no problem with capitalism, or profit.

I just hate Red Hat because a bunch of other distros are too lazy to actually develop so they piggyback on Red Hat's subpar software.

The saddest part is that we already have runit, yet mainstream distros like Debian and Ubuntu still don't make the switch from systemd because muh ease.

>>62281342
I constantly modifying my fstab and I never experienced that issue.
What are talking about?

>>62281532
You expect shills to be honest about what they attack?

>>62281535
I really expect thst he's a shill, cause I cant understand how 7 years is fast in the freetard word.

>>62281528
On redhat's case it's not about software, you get support to the software, and that is really high priority on Enterprises when buying +1000 volumes of software

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>>62281549
>calling critics of systemd freetards
You're aware that systemd is free software, correct?

God you people are such complete and utter faggots.

its possible to have a working gnu/linux system that uses under 10mb ram if you dont use systemd.

>>62281342
You added a volume in /etc/fstab without "nofail", then you removed it and now you pretend to whine?

>>62281572
>implying with the arse

>>62281549
> I cant understand how 7 years is fast in the freetard word
Are you fucking serous?

>>62281532
google 'systemd fstab won't boot' and you can see it is a common issue, apparently fixed by adding the mount option 'nofail'

>>62281599
there was no need for a nofail option before systemd, of course i had no idea because i am using to using non-retarded linux distros like gentoo.

>>62281467
POSIX specifies this:
>3.437 User Name
>
>A string that is used to identify a user; see also User Database. To be portable across systems conforming to POSIX.1-2008, the value is composed of characters from the portable filename character set. The <hyphen-minus> character should not be used as the first character of a portable user name.

And:
>3.282 Portable Filename Character Set
>
>The set of characters from which portable filenames are constructed.
>
>A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z
>a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r s t u v w x y z
>0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 . _ -
>
>The last three characters are the <period>, <underscore>, and <hyphen-minus> characters, respectively. See also Pathname.

Both taken from here: http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9699919799/

It's customary for Linux distros to opt for a more restricted set due to some rare corner cases, but this has never been standardized, nor it is consistent across different distros.

Also, the problem with systemd was that the entire declaration (e.g. user=0day) goes to a parser first, and if there's a mistake anywhere the entire line gets ignored. The validation whether the user exists or not is done only after successful parsing.
That's why stuff was running as root, because parser couldn't get over the 0 and ignored the whole line, thus running the unit as default user which is root in most cases.

>>62281706
Sorry, wrong link. Here is a more specific one: http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9699919799/basedefs/V1_chap03.html

>>62281697
>there was no need
it's literally in the fstab manual you never cared to open. Without nofail, there's an error. Errors are not warnings you can disregard. And you're not supposed to handle removable media in /etc/fstab any more.
such gentoo
much experience
very wow

>>62281618
Yes. Why?
Are freetards so afraid of change they like to do minor updates in 10 years?

>>62281770
the last time I opened the fstab man page was probably 2002

>>62279701
stop hording child porn

>>62279701
That is insane, this is not Windows to make a network connection by default without the user's consent.

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>>62279701
Most RMS approved distros use systemd. Also from RMS about systemd: “I’ve never seen it, I’ve never used a system that had it; I know it’s free software, so ethically speaking, it’s not an issue – it’s just a convenience question.”
For me, it is convenient to use it. I have a 3GiB RAM core duo laptop from 2009 and I don't care at all about systemd's """"bloat"""".

>>62281459
I run Alpine on all of my machines and FreeBSD on my server.

>>62281279
Except even if he wants to make up arbitrary rules about what constitutes a valid user name systemd should handle those so called invalid names in a way that doesn't involve granting them root access.

>>62284138
This. RMS has no issue with systemd is plenty good enough for me.
My little core duo X60s from 2006 has no issues with systemd

>>62281183
Every time I remove one of these, a new one seems to take its place a few days later.

>installing spyware coded by a literal east german commie SJW
lol systemd get out

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>>62279701
>He hates systemd but also uses a CPU that is fully backdoored by intel and all intelligence agencies

>>62281706
This, the myth that a username shouldn't begin with a digit is a Poetteringism.

>>62287800
No he doesn't.

>>62287827
Any CPU made in the past 12 or so years is fully backdoored and has complete unrestricted access to everything. it doesn't matter what OS you're running, it can run without your knowledge, it can run when the computer is off as long as the battery and cable is plugged in, it can do anything it wants to do. Systemd is far less of a monster compared to intel.

>>62287854
>Any CPU made in the past 12 or so years is fully backdoored and has complete unrestricted access to everything.
Never said it wasn't.

>>62287866
Just remember, systemd is just a drop in the ocean compared to hardware backdoors.

>>62280132
HAHAHAHAHAHAAH

>>62279741
perhaps its only benefit is user units

who would've thought that its best feature is something it was originally designed for and not feature creep

>>62279714
>if it's everyone joining the bandwagon, how can it be bad?
>itt: I can't understand that popular doesn't mean better all the time
being this stupid

>>62281445
>journal has the tiniest bit of corruption
>entire journal is rotated out and a new one started
>you can't find out if something important happened, because you can't extract anything

or

>I B malicious, have found a way to inject corruption into the journal
>I hack a system, backdoor it
>I then inject corruption
>rotation occurs, you're fucked, you can't see my attack

There's a reason why syslog works, even if the transport is shit. It works because you can dissect the logs, even with corruption present. If the system is down and you need to obtain data off of the disk, the logs are still readable, regardless. You don't have to use funky syntax or "let's all dump to JSON to siphon into some other klunky kewl kids tool"...you just pipe the shit into the next program and get the results.

>>62281469
>every distro, without exception, is a nigger distro
...........
it's not incorrect

>>62280529
Lead at 20? She's doing pretty well for herself tbqhfam

>>62279714
It came before OpenRC and runnit and Redhat is pushing it (every distro that wants new versions of Gnome and Pulseaudio need it)

Basically the sane way Microsoft made Windows popular.

>>62289290
You could have at least bothered to google-search instead of proving you're a paid shill with one simple post.

>>62279701
hm, just read about the google DNS fallback... HMM

my tinfoil senses are tingling. Im on debian stretch (stable). Is this still the behaviour? How do absolutely 100% avoid my computer ever using google DNS as backup? is it even possible?

>>62281465
Like this
>It has greatly improved my productivity in system administration :D

>>62287854
>What is me_cleaner && libreboot

>>62279701
Time to switch to slackware.

>>62289829
nvm. according to
https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=761658
simply putting

FallbackDNS=

into /etc/systemd/resolved.conf should do the trick.

fuck systemd btw (and pulseaudio)

>>62280915
Red hat pays

>>62287928
>here's one massive security issue
>better bend over and accept other massive security issues!
Kike.

>>62279741
I found the centralized approach of systemd pretty good. What issues has created for you?

>>62279969
I heard they are adding an editor next.

>>62280422
That is something Linux would say. (As well as any logical man.)

>>62290547
Funny thing is, it already has a half dozen mature stable alternatives.

Systemd proponents pretend it's novel software but it's not.

>>62288654
>entire journal is rotated out and a new one started
And that is exactly what it should do. Journal becomes read-only to avoid further corruption. You will then be informed, the file can be read but no fixes will be applied.

>>62279748
the conspiracy thickens

>>62290647
>a half dozen mature stable alternatives
>doesn't mention one (1) of those wonderful stable MILFs
what a surprise

>>62290783
>not mentioning them somehow makes them not exist
They've been mentioned upthread.

Why do you East German communists refuse do debate honestly? Why is Lennart a communist? Why would a person run an opaque 1/2 million LOc piece of communist software?

>>62290818
>Why do you East German communists refuse do debate honestly? Why is Lennart a communist? Why would a person run an opaque 1/2 million LOc piece of communist software?
that's a long name for a systemd alternative, I never heard about it.

>>62290890
Read the thread Lennart. Why do you argue like this? Just makes systemd proponents seem even more dishonest.

If you act like this online, how can people trust your software?

>>62279714
Convenience at the cost of all else. Lazy devs, basically. Might as well adopt proprietary, because it's convenient, right? Read why Arch devs adopted systemd: https://lists.archlinux.org/pipermail/arch-general/2015-July/039443.html

>>62290933
I read, but I didn't find those "half a dozen mature stable alternatives"; on the other hand, after having asked nicely for one (1) example of such a mature, stable alternative for over 20 minutes all I've obtained is autismal anal retentiveness and petty rhetoric fallacies
what a surpise^2
have fun my dear

>>62291014
>I didn't find
You didn't look, you mean. Nice choice of language.

No wonder why people are disaffected by your communist, east german software. Your communist, east german attitude is putting them off.

Why are all libtards, SLWs and commies alike in their inability to honestly discuss things?

>>62290974
It's not proprietary.

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RIP Ian Murdock. Systemd's first victim, probably not the last.

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>INSTALL SYSTEMD IT'S THE FUTURE RED HAT CHOSE FOR YOU

>>62291267
And I didn't say it is.

>>62291387
Note that Lennart's entire strategy involves mis-characterizing his opponents. He can't honestly defend his software, can we trust him to honestly develop it without the backdoors, intentional security flaws, and spyware?

Obviously not.

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>>62279714
They started killing people if they wouldn't cuck to the systemd botnet and the distro maintainers got the message.

>>62280132

>>62290519
I believe this. Even though it's probably not true yet, it will be sooner or later.

>>62281358
Why do you fags use the same shallow image pool when you post? Is it so your little butt buddies know you've been here?

>>62280678
>>62280810
>claims there is extensive documentation for systemd
>can't link any

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>>62281597
Poettering BTFO.

He's going to kill embedded Linux.

>>62281256
Google mandates that you run its auto-update service all the time lately, and their entire profit model revolves around selling you as a product.

Yes, Google gives two shits about you and your computer.

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>>62281423

>>62289829
Since new bugs are introduced in every systemd release, you should add the devuan repos and install openrc.

>>62279755
Not even. See https://jdebp.eu/FGA/run-scripts-and-service-units-side-by-side.html

>>62280079
Nice ad hominen and assumptions faggot. systemd has a documented problem of just waiting forever for networks to connect.

>>62280116
Because it does way more than init, and keeps absorbing more functionality and doing that extra functionality poorly. Also way too much software now depends on it making it harder to run a system without it even if you want to.

>>62279923
Every default system with systemd I've installed does this too. Also 5 minute default stop jobs, wtf?

>>62285593
((you))

>>62293383
Yeah it's a mystery.

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im using Gentoo :^)

>>62279701
I switched to openRC without real reason.
There is NO difference in usability.
Broken down

systemd --- openRC
usability = usability
not KISS < KISS

sorry systemd, i like KISS

>>62279701
You set the wait time you faggot... or you don't and you wait 5 minutes to get to 4chan and bitch about it.

>>62294065
was about to write:
>strip your system of unneeded packages, i think you collected some bloat over the time
then i saw KDE5
yea mate, how long does a system update need ?

>>62294197
Only if you dig into the strange world of systemd. It comes with a 5 minute wait by default.

>>62280079
>learn how to do networking
oh anon, even shitstaind bloated itself up the neck with networking features about 2-3 years ago. At this point you're learning systemd, not linux + tools you actually care about.

>>62294235
this, as i've said many times systemd is a plot to completely subsume and replace linux

>>62289918
As far as I was aware libreboot was no longer feasible?

Like, recent intel cpu's just up an turn off after 30 minutes if you don't have signed bytecode/management engine. Similar issue with AMD.

Has there been some development on this?

>>62295541
>Similar issue with AMD.
AMD has a management engine but not sure about the power off thing there.

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>>62279748
Didn't he say something about police brutality before he died? I can't remember

>>62295624
Yeah it was probably (((them))) ramping up the threats and scare tactics.

>>62291608
Shit, seriously?

>>62290498
I can see the idea as being appealing, in practice it hasn't worked out. I still use /var/log, run ps and all the normal linux shit, not rely on whateverctl.

The issues primarily came from the fact this is a major change, packages have issues. I've encountered them before. Specifically one instance involved znc not working with systemd out of the box.

I argue that there's no tangible benefit to experienced system administrators. My understanding this was motivated by user-land desktop shit.

>>62291608
this is worse than the usernames starting with numbers run as root exploit (aka not-a-bug)

>>62296151
makes you wonder what other clever shit they've hidden in there

>>62290783
upstart (now abandoned?) is fine and Gentoo's OpenRC is good as well

>>62297261
>upstart (now abandoned?) is fine
No, it's shit.
>OpenRC
No, it's shit.
next?

>>62297899
Why is your anus so torn apart, lennart?

>>62279701
there's a huge community complaining about systemd, how come nobody actually tries to fix it?

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Daily reminder that systemd is FOSS (Approved by Richard Stallman) and that it's good software that fulfils the needs of modern devops, sysadmins, regular users and even application developers. Since work on systemd project restarted in 2010 and it's initial inclusion in Fedora Jan 2011 it has gained code contributions from over 1000 developers worldwide and became the default init system + session manager in every major GNU/Linux distribution. Developers from each distro have commit access and have helped to design and shape systemd to fit their needs and unify core system between distributions over the last 5 years.

However as great of an improvement as it has proven to be it has attracted trolls and mentally ill Linux users who spread lies and FUD about it, a large group of these single out developers and attack them with constant trolling, abuse, stalking and even death threats. Some of these people are from the *BSD camps; after Linux usage and contributions sky-rocketed 15 years ago they have been on a constant mission to cause trouble, including making threats of violence and rape against people who create GPL licensed code.

Many of these people appear to be paid by Microsoft to try and destroy strong powerful FOSS projects by "negative campaigning" known as FUD. Fortunately as usual for Microsoft their FUD and paid shills turn up 4 years too late and don't have technical arguments, making it obvious what they are: paid trolls.

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"I think your attitude is pretty typical of systemd detractors, and that attitude is exactly why systemd is making a victory sweep across all major Linux distributions;

Since you are in total denial of any existing problems with sysvinit, you are of course unable to suggest any alternative to it, or begin any coherent work on an alternative to it. The denial also suggest a lack of technical insight into the problem, and the pathetic lack of any alternative development work also suggest a lack of technical ability to make such an alternative.

This seemingly leaves systemd detractors with only one option; negative campaigning. So they have wasted years of slandering Lennart Poettering and other open source developers and companies, and whining, ranting and trolling on web forums, but without any real technical argumentation.

Using derogatory terms, like "bloat", or "Windoze crap" aren't technical argumentation, just like copy-pasting unattributed quotes from random sites about "Unix philosophy" doesn't convince anybody serious either.

You are also alienating people who may have been sympathetic to developing alternatives to systemd; who wants to join a bunch of anonymous people who rant like lunatics, and who seems to enjoy smug negative attitudes against other open source developers.

So to sum up; you are just a loud minority who conducts negative campaigning, seemingly without any ability to gather people to construct a positive alternative to systemd. As long as you deny any problems with sysvinit, and deny any positive merits of systemd, you will be unable to analyse the situation and therefore paralysed into inaction. This of course will mean, that Linux distro after Linux distro will switch over to systemd. Enjoy the future with systemd on every Linux distro; your negative attitude made it possible."

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"I remember being severely disillusioned by this in my early days. I read some article that explained how a "spell" program can be written to report the spelling errors in a file. It uses 'tr' to split into words, then "sort" and "uniq" to get a word list, then "comm" to find the differences. "cool" I thought. Then I looked at the actual "spell" program on my university's Unix installation. It used a special 'dcomm' (or something like that) which knew about "dictionary ordering" (Which ignores case - sometimes). Suddenly the whole illusion came shattering down. Lots of separate tools only do 90% of the work. To do really complete work, you need real purpose-built tools. "do one thing and do it well" is good for prototypes, not for final products.
The thing that annoys me most about systemd is that I didn't write it first!"

- Neil Brown
http://lwn.net/Articles/576078/

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"The problem for Gnome and KDE is, that systemd is vastly superior to anything out there, and that it will help them dump loads of hard to maintain code, and give them easy access to make powerful distro-agnostic programs.

systemd provides a common, uniform Linux plumbing system that makes life easier for all user program developers. So of course Gnome and KDE will start to take advantage of systemd, why shouldn't they?

The main problem with those who for some reason or another doesn't like systemd, is that they are incredibly lazy. Instead of actually getting together to make an alternative development stack to systemd, they rant against Poettering and spew empty platitudes about "UNIX philosophy".

The most pathetic example of this anti-systemd laziness, is of course "ConsoleKit". It has now been unmaintained for +1½ years, but it is a crucial piece of infra-structure for any Desktop. But instead of either maintain it or make an alternative, anti-systemd people just rant against Gnome for no longer making it a priority to support this piece of abandonware. All rant and no work.
[...]
Yes, that is true last time you checked, and next KDE edition (KDE SC 5/Plasma 2) will of course also run on *BSD. But with reduced functionality on all non-systemd systems, compared with the systemd version.

This is not because of some sinister conspiracy, but because systemd offers easy use of many nice features that KDE and Gnome (and LXQT etc) would like to use, and non-systemd systems doesn't provide.

The point is exactly, that systemd is a very nice uniform Linux plumbing system, and that DE's are starting to take advantage of that."

I've never had any problems with systemd so I have no reason to hate it
if I knew more about how linux works I probably would

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"I’m trying really hard not to suggest launchd here (so I won’t). The idea of registering everything up-front with a broker and then letting IPC / timers / HW events start things from there (in cascade fashion) is still the right architecture. Even the linux die-hards have essentially grasped the necessity of systemd (even though they’re going to hate on it for awhile longer)".

- Jordan Hubbard, FreeBSD co-founder

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>>62279755
>what are all those other init services

Also what the fuck is wrong with bootscripts? I just have a few basic templates if I need to add new shit, takes half a minute to set up. People that can't into bash should shut the fuck up about anything init in the first place.

>>62298579
> 380k lines of code

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post more low effort macros please

>>62285593
your trophy is in the mail

>>62284138
so, what is the point of musix? couldn't you just install the software you needed on any distro?

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>>62294065
What the fuck is that wallpaper?!

>>62279701
seriously why is systemd bad? its not like the unix philosophy actually applies here either`

>>62294233
It's a pretty simple world though. Go make your own init system and see what happens.

>>62293269
runit is better than systemd, but systemd was better than LSB init scripts

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>>62287800
>hey man your toilet smell like shit sometimes
>yeah, toilets do that, the only way to avoid that would be too inconvenient for daily use
>well I guess you like the smell of shit then so let me just smear shit all over your room

>>62279701
Give me a quick run down of what systemd is and why you guys hate it.

>>62299580
500,000 LINES OF C CODE

>>62299576
i dont agree with the g uy you are responding to but using analogies as if they prove anything instantly makes you look 10x times dumber than him as well as 10x times less convincing

not to mention the anime picture

>>62299618
The init code of system has a lower LoC count than sysvinit.

When USB tethering is active (I don't have ethernet yet so temporary measute) and I want to shut PC down it waits for 1:30 for some reason so I just unplug it myself.

>>62297899
>No, it's shit.
Good argument Lennart.

All written in C, run as daemon, have per-service configuration, cross-service dependencies, parallel service startup, daemons on failure restart.

What systemd offers more should normally be provided by other tools (logging, network, etc). But it offers nothing more as an init system.

>>62294229
2 days

>>62299779
>sysvinit
is it 90s? openrc-init and runit here (on different machines)

>>62279714
> But popular is better anon

>>62298744
Pretty solid meme you got there.

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>>62294065
Link to center image pls.

>>62297261
>>62297899
Runit and even plaintext BSD scripts for the init are still good

>>62298579
Tons of technical arguments have been made, even in this thread alone. Including the fact that systemd keeps doing more than init, is plagued with bugs and often those bugs aren't fixed (numbers in username giving root privilege bug for example) and the fact that technically speaking systemd doesn't introduce anything new to init that openrc or runit didn't already have. Stop making shit up. I have never seen any death or rape threats made against systemd devs.

>>62298594
Only a few people stuck in the past are saying sysvinit has no problems. We just don't think that systemd is the solution, and we prefer lighterweight solutions like openrc or runit that just do init and daemon management.

>>62298614
The problem is that systemd isn't a purpose built tool. It's not built just for init and daemon management, if it was less people would care. The problem is that systemd keeps expanding like a black hole, absorbing everything it comes into contact with.

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booting

>>62303581
openrc is fucking garbage its long been supplanted by systemd.

>>62298632
There are people making alternatives though, look at eudev and elogind. The problem is that instead of keeping these programs seperated and using well defined protocols, systemd bunches them all together in a dependency mess and it's apis change all the time.

>>62303617
Then use runit, upstart, or even BSD style init scripts.

>>62299580
No one really knows what systemd is anymore, and that's part of the problem. systemd keeps absorbing more and more functionality, while it started as an init system it now has a network daemon, a color management daemon, a dns resolver, a built in http server, a device manager, a login manager, and more. systemd keeps absorbing functionality and making it nearly impossible to choose a different init system.

>>62303721
I would be willing to jump to slackware to avoid systemd

>>62299779
Good luck just using the init part of the code. Also stop comparing systemd to sysvinit, there are other modern alternatives like runit, openrc and shepherd.

>>62303674
He's a silly tripfag that trolls about systemd every now and then. Just ignore/filter

>>62303753
That guy is trolling dumbass openrc is bsd style init. and runit/upstart are failed abortions with no support.

>>62299779
>lower LoC count than sysvinit
stop beating the favorite systemd strawman. No one gives a shit about your comparison to sysvinit if you're not going to compare ALL of the others available.

"S..see, it's better, because I'm comparing it to the easiest target...ignore th-those others, just because they come with an init and process supervision doesn't mean you can compare, but you should always compare systemd vs sysvinit, because we all know that systemd is more than...oh wait.."

>>62298374
Millions of lines of undocumented code and 0% acceptance rate of external contributions.

>>62303765
OpenRC is not fucking BSD-styled init scripts, runit is still around and actively maintained, few care about upstart, you failed to mention s6 or any others, and if this is the best argument you can come up with, then please by all means, go about enjoying your ignorant bliss, while the rest of us get on with doing things.

>>62298374
>how come nobody actually tries to fix it?
It was tried. See uselessd.

The argument "fork it/fix it" is another strawman - they've been doing that for years. If you think about it, it is just a subversive ploy to get you to work on an already questionable codebase. Why should you "fork or fix" something that has demonstrated deficiencies? It also gives them ammo when you flounder around with the enormous size of the code base, "see, you can't maintain it, blah blah blah"...which is translated as "trust us, just use the lube and bend over, I promise you'll see stars and rainbows!"

>>62280810
Great! So when I issue

systemctl stop foo-bar-service

and it doesn't stop, and I wait 30 seconds, and do another

systemctl stop foo-bar-service

then it's a feature by design? Or can you explain to me why systemd didn't FUCKING SHOOT THE SERVICE IN THE HEAD?!?

>>62305112
>Millions of lines of undocumented code
>Poettering standing up and saying use Linux APIs exclusively
I have to wonder, just how much of that code is overhead? And if we're encouraged to use the Linux APIs because they're supposedly superior, then why does it require so much code? It's sure not because of portability reasons - you can't port systemd to a different Kernel, for the same reason that cgroups aren't in different kernels. It's Linux or nothing.

Just gets weirder and weirder...

>>62305233

>#notabug

>>62305271
Not to mention he tried to patch the linux kernel to bypass bugs in his codebase instead of addressing the bugs in his codebase, pissing linus off. The fact is, (((why))) did he try to patch the kernel? And will he ever stop trying?

>>62305295
if it's not a bug...then you're saying the default behavior is to politely ask the service to stop? And if it doesn't, you just keep asking over and over like a whiny little bitch?

Does this sound like an effective systems administration behavior - that it simply won't stop the service, no matter how many times you ask?

>>62279818
Wow.

He really is a spergtard.

>>62305306
He won't stop trying. Poettering has had a hard-on for the Linux for some time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lennart_Poettering#Controversies
"Linux is still too fragmented...[and] needs to be streamlined..."

I think he envisions himself as wrestling the kernel from Linus at some point in the future; predictably there would be a huge schism, with all of the money interests following the Poettering fork, and all of the old guard simply sticking with Linus.

And at that point, Red Hat will have their ultimate wish, the one they can't say in public - to have complete top-to-bottom control of their product, by virtue of "owning" the kernel. Right now, they grit their teeth and deal with things, but they keep waiting for the right time.

>>62280116

It is fixing a problem that does not exist.

>>62305321

>being a humourless aspie

>>62280116

>zomg muh boot speed

Is this even a relevant issue in 2017? SSD boots so fast as to be academic, and scale-out is now better served by microservices in containers, not spinning up VMs.

>>62280116
>systemd is fast and comes with all the tools you need
What I have is already fast, and I already have all the tools I need. Why are you hard-selling me something I already have? What problem or problems are you fixing? If you are fixing problems, can you qualify the problem, and quantify how it will be fixed?

>>62305457
You don't have to deal with this bullshit for a living. Humor doesn't enter into it, as much as I wish it did.

>>62305589

You don't know what you're talking about. While I agree I'm not totally incompetent like you and only dislike systemd for political reasons. It sounds like you're just keeping your head above water and the industry is better without you.

>>62305904
Nice assumptions.

systemctl stop nsd

Nothing happens.

systemctl status nsd

Still running. Hm... I'll wait about 10 seconds.

systemctl status nsd

WTF. Still running.

systemctl stop nsd

Still nothing happens.

This actually occurred, and was extremely annoying. I issued a SIGTERM directly, then issued another stop command. That time it stopped. The point remains, the command failed to work as intended; and that's a bug.

I appreciate that you what to take the vapid high road of claiming these things; I don't think you appreciate the situation, or circumstance. Are you assuming I'm Yet Another Questionable Web Startup (pat. pend.)? I'm not. Are you assuming that I've never done this before? No, I have. What other things are you assuming?

>>62305414
Linus is getting more and more tired of the idiocy with SystemD.

I don't know why the other big Linux money intrests went along with Red Hat becuase they have tried this kind of Microshaft style embrace - extend - extinguish before. They are getting themselves into a nightmare they should have avoided. The smart distros avoid Systemd or offer parallel alternatives.

>>62298374
Why fix a pile of shit?

Just avoid it. There are plenty of alternatives.

>>62298614
>>62298632
you dumb fucking cia nigger with your shallow image pool

we're on to you

>>62299305
read the thread, and people already have made their own init systems

that's why systemd shills are so mad, they don't want people switching away from their spyware botnet

>>62299860
Just Poettering things...

>>62306237
>I don't know why the other big Linux money intrests went along with Red Hat
they had to obey Obama's national security letters

>falling for the systemd meme
>not using openrc or runit
wew lads

>>62303561
poettering rule34 when?

>>62306958
I thought there was already a black gay gangband
image with his face shopped in?

systemD jus werkz for me

>>62307371
^tm

>he doesn't use MacOS's glorious proprietary init system instead

asking for it, really.