Why you guys like text editors over IDE?

Because I prefer to do my tasks with needless additional complexity to further fuel my superiority complex.

Custom env for my needs

>>62268585

> He needs a bloated IDE to program

brainlet.

>>62268567
Simple text editors get out of my way and let me get shit done on toasters too.

>>62268567
they keep doing annoying stuff I do not feel like digging through deep trees of config options to fix, if it even is possible to fix.

>>62268585
>to further fuel my superiority complex
I think you mean inferiority complex

Those with a superiority complex belittle themselves to make others feel better

>>62268601
>>62268614
Is their a shortcut to compile?

>>62268663
up+return in a separate terminal?

>>62268663
Edit it in your .vim keybindings idiot.

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>How do you compile with a text editor?
>How do you debug with a text editor?
>How do you refactor with a text editor?
>How do you generate code with a text editor?
>How do you generate class diagrams with a text editor?
>How do you have errors, warnings, code smells, etc. automatically underlined/highlighted with a text editor?
>How do you get code completion with a text editor?
>How do you quickly access documentation for any type/method/function/etc. with a text editor?
>How do you easily manage dependencies and packages with a text editor?
>How do you quickly find usages of a certain type/method with a text editor?
>How do you find dead, unused code with a text editor?

An IDE is just objectively better. It gives you access to many very useful features for programming. It's simply the better tool for the job. Sure, you can use a text editor, but that's just putting you at a disadvantage for no reason.

>>62268663
leader+ll

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>>62269114
One tool for one job.

>How do you compile?
With your compiler
>How do you debug?
With your debugger
>How do you refactor?
This is possible in all good text editors
>How do you generate code?
Use a dedicated code generation tool
>How do you generate class diagrams?
Use a tool for generating class diagrams
>How do you have errors etc highlighted?
Possible in all good text editors
>Code completion?
See above
>Access documentation?
With your file manager of choice
>Manage dependencies?
With your package manager
>Find usages
Possible in all good editors
>Dead or unused code?
Possible in all good editors

All of the features which are possible are, as they should be, implemented in plugins which you can add on to your text editor. The base text editor should be capable of exactly one thing, editing text: it is up to the user to decide if they would like to extend its functionality. Nothing should be included just because it is assumed it might be useful.

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>>62269284
>Nothing should be included just because it is assumed it might be useful.
But it objectively is useful. All programmers will benefit from things like code completion and access to documentation. Sure, you can find workarounds, but there's no way that you can argue that digging around through a file manager for documentation is somehow better than just putting your mouse over a part of the code that you're already looking at.

>>62268624
Wow. That's good to know. Thanks, bro.

using an IDE in 2017 is like using a dial up
you spend all that time waiting to actually connect and then the time spent actually using the internet is minimal

>>62268567

Because I don't like waiting for an IDE to catch up with my keystrokes while it suggests function names.

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>>62269445
But not everybody using a text editor is a programmer. What happens if you are an author writing a novel? Code completion certainly doesn't help you, but you might want something like spellcheck, which typically only gets in the way for a programmer. The text editor should be adaptable to all use cases, preferably by using a tool specifically dedicated to the task you're looking to do, or if necessary, via extensions. It is the user's choice to sacrifice performance for functionality, not the editor's.

I prefer an IDE

>>62269114
To be fair you can do all that in a very extensible text editor. That just makes the text editor as heavy as an ide and more decentralized in terms of support and quality of each part. In general though I agree and ide is better, particularly if you are not familiar with all the extensions one needs to bulk a text editor into a more full featured tool.

>>62269543
That's why people use text editors for editing text, and integrated development environments for developing software. Text editors aren't intended for programming. It's like the difference between MS Paint and Photoshop.

>>62270673
>this is what pajeets literally think

most IDE features are crutches

>>62269013
What if I told you I have vim but don't have a compiler yet

>>62269543
This. Wrote my last two novels in vim.

>>62268623
So I have vim. What compiler do I download for c++ programming? Then how do I do compile/debug?

>>62268567
Almost all (((IDEs))) these days come with analytics enabled by default. It's pathetic.

>>62271024

g++ of course

Programmers who program without an IDE and use dynamically typed interpreted languages are idiots. Here is why...

- They assume they never make mistakes and write perfect code all the time, in reality they write shit that appears to work but nobody fucking notices it dosent actually work until several years later when they are long gone. Then some newbie needs to sift through their poorly organised spaghetti to find that variable that should have been pluralised or should have been a number and not a string (an IDE would have caught this fucking horse shit!).

- They think IDE's are a crutch. This roughly translates to either one of two things... they are too fucking stupid to know how to use an IDE. Or they can't be bothered with the extra capabilities like you know... actually testing their fucking code with the debugger. Just write it in a text editor, run it once and assume it works when it dosent crash.

- They think memorising function names, return types, all that shit intellisense takes care of for you is actually useful somehow. In reality it ends up with them reinventing the wheel over and over because they missed that there is a built in function to do the thing they've been doing manually for years and years.

- The worst of all... the majority seem to have started programming on a text editor and a core reason they won't use an IDE is that they don't like change... despite working in an industry that literally changes all the time.

Useless cunts. If you program with a text editor when an IDE is an option, die in a fire. You are the reason spaghetti code exists and projects fail. Fuck you.

>>62272250
I think they prefer to be called Code Artisans, anon.

>>62272250
We're still more paid than you anon.

>>62272338
Unless you're devops at a big4, I really doubt that.

>>62270673
A text editor like vim is certainly intended for programming.

>>62272250
You do realize you can still use text editors as crutches and absolutely none of your arguments actually hold up because you fully believe the extent of text editors today is notepad.
This is why you're a neet. Unable to comprehend alternative perspectives.

>>62272250
>an industry that literally changes all the time

Gee, I wonder why they choose to keep something as basic as their code writing tool simple? Maybe something to do with IDE's changing all the time and new IDE's popping up all over the place. Why bother yourself with learning new features to something as basic as the tool you use to get code written? Better to spend time actually learning the language itself by, you know, reading! Or, you can let the IDE be your God tool that just knows everything and you never have to remember a single thing. Pretty soon the IDE will auto correct your shitty code and basically write the program for you.

>>62272390
If you can do things from within your editor, it is an IDE.
If you need to leave the IDE to see which line number the error was at or need a separate tool to set the breakpoints in your debugger, I can see why you claim you use a text editor instead of an IDE.

If we should talk about what is wrong with IDEs, then do that.
Eg I personally hate that most if not all are in a single window and they don't have a multi window option.
My window manager is far more capable of managing the different windows than stuffing everything into a single window where you can't even see the code.
I want a full screen window for the build output, the run output and the code.
I have multiple monitors and multiple desktops, why not assume that others have that and want to use that?
Ctrl + click navigation is nice, but why isn't there a way to have two windows open and click on one window and it will adjust on the other like when you click on an error in the build output and it takes you to it in your code.
I often end up compiling in a terminal even though I have an IDE because the window management is so shitty.
Why do they do it at all?

>>62269114

>How do you compile with a text editor?

:! g++ -Wall myprog.C -o myprog

>How do you debug with a text editor?
Syntastic. Also assertions, using a good methodology, the right programs and not being stupid.

>How do you refactor with a text editor?

-open split screen
-yank content in between braces (with one vim comment)
-goto new screen
-paste inside new method

>How do you generate code with a text editor?

By not using a shit language like Java that needs to generate a metric fuckton of boilerplate getters/setters..?

>How do you generate class diagrams with a text editor?

Brainlet.

>How do you have errors, warnings, code smells, etc. automatically underlined/highlighted with a text editor?

Plugins like Syntastic do a great job marking wrong code. Code smells are about being a good coder.

>How do you get code completion with a text editor?

For example: YouCompleteMe.

>How do you quickly access documentation for any type/method/function/etc. with a text editor?

ctrl-p plugin --> open file in differnt screen and look it up

>How do you easily manage dependencies and packages with a text editor?

vim Makefile?

>How do you quickly find usages of a certain type/method with a text editor?

I don't need a coding nanny holding my hand, but you can also use ctrl-p here, I guess?

>How do you find dead, unused code with a text editor?

-install command line tool for that
-run tool from within vim


Vim is just objectively better. It gives you access to many very useful plugins for programming. It's simply the better tool for the job. Sure, you can use an ide, but it's just slow and bloated for no reason.

>>62273283
>>How do you refactor with a text editor?
Refactoring isn't just about moving code around though. How do you rename your methods, types, namespaces, etc. everywhere for example? This isn't always as simple as a find and replace. For example, changing namespaces in some languages can require updating using/import statements as well, or removing them if the type is now in the same namespace, etc.

>Plugins
If you have all these fancy plugins that give your text editor IDE features, then it's now an IDE as well.

>Command line tool for this, command line tool for that
Is that really more efficient than just having it right there in your IDE?

>>62272250

Whoa dat level of strawman..

>They assume they never make mistakes and write perfect code all the time

Testing is a thing, you know?
Also: syntastic plugin for vim (there are probably similar tools for emacs or other text editors).


>They think IDE's are a crutch.

I've worked with Eclipse. Never again.

>They think memorising function names, return types, all that shit intellisense takes care of for you is actually useful somehow.

There are many autocomplete plugins for vim..

>the majority seem to have started programming on a text editor and a core reason they won't use an IDE is that they don't like change

Have you actually programmed in vim or emacs or are you pulling this out of your ass?

>Useless cunts

"Driven by hunger, a fox tried to reach some grapes hanging high on the vine but was unable to, although he leaped with all his strength. As he went away, the fox remarked 'Oh, you aren't even ripe yet! I don't need any sour grapes!' "

>>62268567
IDE does not integrate well with my environment. On windows I will use VS but on linux using an IDE is plain retarded, it doesn't even make sense, it's the opposite of integrated, it makes it impossible to write cross-platform software as you are dealing with stupid "project files" instead of a real build system. CMake can generate project files for most IDEs including VS, can cross-compile for different platforms, generate compilation databases, and does not need a gui toolkit to run. The only people who use IDEs on linux are stupid college students and kids who took some kind of programming class in HS using ubuntu and netbeans or some shit, it is totally impractical for making real software that will be deployed in a production environment.

>>62273369

>How do you rename your methods

:%s/old_method/new_method/gc

>For example, changing namespaces in some languages can require updating using/import statements as well

How often do you changed name spaces in the past, if I may ask?


>If you have all these fancy plugins that give your text editor IDE features, then it's now an IDE as well.

No, because:
-I choose to work as minimalistic as possible. I don't need to click through 8 levels of [OK]buttons to get cracking.
-And IDE doesn't give you the skills of a decent text editor like vim or emacs.


>Is that really more efficient than just having it right there in your IDE?

No, but it doesn't have to be. How often do you run dead code elimination?

>>62269013
Because I feel more productive with it. Also IDEs are rarely customizable enough for me

>>62269114
You can do all those things to a text editor. Just add the feature. Get some pre-made or make it yourself to function JUST the way you like it.

>>62270673
Text editors were invented for programming u brainlet

>>62272815
>If you can do things from within your editor, it is an IDE.
This is fucking retarded and you know it.
Just goes to show you IDE fags are legitimately nonfunctioning.

>>62270852
How are you programming then anon? Accept the vim master race.

Okay, I'll bite. I'm an IDE guy but I'm willing to give Vim or Emacs a try. Can someone help me get started then?

What's better between Vim and Emacs?
Where do I find all these fancy plugins to make it good for programming?
How do I learn all the keyboard shortcuts and how long does it take?

>>62270673
you are so stupid it hurts.

>>62272250
>>62272373
Your sense of self importance is so inflated. Jesus Christ. Why the fuck would you care what some retards on /g/ thought of you?

Vain dipshit.

>>62273813
>>62273781
>>62273776
>>62273747
>>62273400
>>62273283
>>62269284
ITT: Retards who use a shitload of plugins to transform their text editor into an IDE and then pretend that they are not using one.
If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it's a fucking duck.

>>62271024
You use g++ for compiling, and gdb for deugging.

>>62273798
IDE on my main (asus x555lab) laptop but want to be like you guys on my thinkpad.

>>62273808
They use vim because it has a lot of shortcuts and shit you can do with needing to use your mouse or arrow keys.
https://youtu.be/F6-phM56H-Q

Can't tell you shit on the compiler or debugger.

>>62274602
Their compatible with windows 7?

>>62275535
without*

I use Visual Studio on a Celeron/4gb laptop and it runs fine, no lag unless I try to work on a gargantuan project (larger than anything I'd want to do with my home laptop).

I really like emacs though, org-mode is amazing. Still, I don't see the point in making up memes about IDEs.

>>62268567
mouseless editing

>>62275549
>Visual Studio on a Celeron/4gb laptop
Jesus how? I guess my work projects are huge... We have workstations with Xeons + 32gigs and they can bog down predictably.

Because I prefer a simple, easy to understand interface that doesn't get in my way. All of my build and debugging tools are available on command line and trivial to work with.

>>62275548

http://repo.msys2.org/distrib/x86_64/msys2-x86_64-20161025.exe

You're welcome.

>>62275724
My IDE interface is also simple and easy to understand, though I have been using it for many years now so i'm sure that is a good reason for why that is.

>>62275825

Meanwhile, any time I pick up any IDE I find that there are too many buttons in too many places, and I just want something to edit some fucking text. Moreover, they always try to shoehorn some sort of wonky project system onto me. I especially can't understand Visual Studio's .sln files. It's as if they weren't designed for humans to read and edit, and yet are nonetheless in plain text.

>>62275753
How am I supposed to trust that?

>>62275851
if you just want to edit some text then use a text editor. I do that all the time, but when I need to actually develop a software project I use my IDE. Solution files are pretty easy honestly, though you shouldn't be trying to alter them by hand (unless you know what you are doing) but editing things from within visual studio. They are essentially just a file that holds the group of project files and build settings.

>>62275898

>but when I need to actually develop a software project I use my IDE
A software project is just a collection of plaintext files. You edit the source code, you run a build script. You run a debugger if things fuck up. Lather, rinse, repeat.

>you shouldn't be trying to alter them by hand (unless you know what you are doing)
The syntax of the build system should be well documented and easy to understand, such that a build script can be developed without the use of automated tools. If a human cannot easily understand how it works, they cannot understand how their program is built, and they will be screwed when some part of the build process must be changed.

CMakeLists.txt is easy to understand. If the parameters of how the program needs to be built change, I can edit the build script without issues. The output files of cmake, Makefiles, are even more trivial, and their syntax is even taught in university classes.

>>62276111
you are doing it wrong then if you are wanting to alter visual studio projects/solutions by hand, or build them outside of visual studio. You can also alter any portion of the build process through simple interfaces inside of visual studio. The files are human readable too, I've had to do many things inside both the solutions and individual project files.

> If a human cannot easily understand how it works, they cannot understand how their program is built

Do you think compiling software is some esoteric act?

CMake is a good general purpose build tool, Visual Studio though is not meant to be "general purpose" but is instead focused on specific applications. I'm sure your aversion to it is just simply not having any experience with it, and you are set in your ways. So when something is "unfamiliar" to you, you simply throw it away.

>>62276365

>you are doing it wrong then if you are wanting to alter visual studio projects/solutions by hand, or build them outside of visual studio.
Honestly I design my programs to be built anywhere. Windows, Linux, ARM, x86... unless I have hard requirements to some platform I make things as generic as possible. I never use MSVC when on Windows, however.

>You can also alter any portion of the build process through simple interfaces inside of visual studio
You know what is simpler, more straightforward, and often better documented? Editing a text file.

>Do you think compiling software is some esoteric act?
Not at all. And it should never feel esoteric. When I run my build script, I should be able to at least figure out what all commands are being run behind the scenes and why.

>CMake is a good general purpose build tool, Visual Studio though is not meant to be "general purpose" but is instead focused on specific applications.
And most of those specific applications are better achieved with a general purpose tool. There is only one case where I could imagine Visual Studio is necessary, and unfortunately it is the one time I have had to use it.

>I'm sure your aversion to it is just simply not having any experience with it
I had had to work with it when developing Windows kernel modules for my master's research paper. It's a pain in the ass. Intellisense kept getting in my way so I typed the whole thing up in Sublime and pasted it over. Debugging with a VM through Visual Studio is half-broken and poorly documented. Using the GUI to change anything about building or debugging takes multiple clicks across a convoluted interface that could be replaced with a very small script.

>>62274440
Unless it identifies as a dog. Checkmate, pajeet

>>62276612
y-you win this round, anon~

>>62273283
your spacing is giving me cancer

>>62269543
Vim has spellcheck built in baka.

B U M P

>>62268567
IDE's, and even most programmer's editors just piss me off. There's a LOT of garbage that just gets in my way...

Tabbed editing for example -- I'm a multiple display user, if I can't move just one section of code to another display, what's the point. Shoe-horning everything into one window is just stupid.

Needlessly crytic macro nonsense is another; if your code is complex enough and your habits sloppy enough to need any of that crap, you're probably doing something wrong.

Colour syntax highlighting is yet another bit of asshattery I just don't get, as the acid trip of colours makes it impossible for my eyes to focus and actually *SHOCK* READ THE CODE. Maybe it's because I've got ingrained indentation and formatting habits, maybe it's because I'm not punctuation blind... maybe it's because I programmed for at least a decade before there even was such a thing - but colour coding code just makes it harder for me to work with.

Stupid space-wasting toolbars. I know how to use the keyboard and to navigate menus, I don't need precious screen space that would be better used to simply show code

"command oriented" editors -- for **** sake I just want to TYPE!!! That's why I consider vi/vim/99% of the crap *nix-tards call 'editors' to be useless crap.

My first choice right now is Flo's Notepad2. Scintilla based, but it's not a steaming pile of Scite like a lot of other editors based on it. Most importantly while it defaults to all the things I dislike, it also includes the options to turn all that crap OFF.

... and it provides the tools I do like -- like indentation guides, block indent/de-indent with tab/shift-tab, block sliding with ctrl-shift-arrow, word-wrap indicators, word-wrap matching indentation, trailing blank stripping, blank line stripping, case conversion, regex search/replace, uri encode/decode, c escape encode/decode, tab to space/space to tab conversions, long line indicators, brace matching, and so forth.

>>62277938
Going to try that editor out

I honestly feel that most of you text editor fans are either 50+ and started before IDEs were invented or you have legitimate autism.

>>62278848
Soo when a person uses a text editor and already downloaded the appropiate compiler. You always use the cmd to compile it?

>>62275851
Why do buttons on a toolbar scare you so much? Nobody's forcing you to click them. The large majority of an IDE's GUI is a text editor area where you can click to place your cursor and just start typing like normal. It's much easier to jump into an IDE than something like Vim where you have to go through tutorials just to know how to even type text.

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>>62272375
I've used vim to write essays in TeX but I guess that's a grey area.

>>62281322
Why?

I need a good C/C++ IDE, help

>>62268663
two windows in tmux, Ctrl+B Down.
Up, Enter. bam

>>62281396
vscode

>>62281396
Honestly, not joking, Turbo c++ in dosbox, I know it sounds retarded but it is literally the comfiest and most pzrfect ide I have ever used.

>>62268567
It's fast, intuitive and efficient. Text editors offer a greater order of language integration which is used in practical projects

>>62275753
Ohcool, pacman on windows

>>62281630
That' not an IDE

>>62268842
this

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>>62268567
Vim is insanely faster and more powerful than conventional typing.

How long does vim take to load, on average, with those key development plugins? Would it be possible to alias things like dvim and have it load up vim with development plugins and then use vim to open up vim without those?

>>62282177
Vim system requirements: moderate to severe autism.

Im out....

>>62268567
IDEs aren't necessarily bad but they all seem to fall prey to feature creeping and turn into massive bloated laggy crash prone messes

>>62282504
https://youtu.be/SYGIQLruaFs
live in regret faggot

setting it up and getting used to it at first is not easy

but once you get acclimated to Vim you will never be able to use anything else afterwards without pain

>>62268567

Cross language. Mobil tools I take with me.

>>62282546
>that vertical highlight
my fucking dick

>>62269114
Shell
Shell
Do it yourself
Write a script
That one idk
Linter/ syntastic like plugins
Vim has plugins for that
Man pages/shell
Shell
Emacs has plugins for this stuff
I dunno

Enjoying emacs
Or enjoying vim + tmux really pisses off ide programmers

>>62281899
it certainly is an integrated development environment. I don't ever leave it when working on node/web/electron typescript projects just like I don't ever leave intellij idea (also an ide) when working on various java software. both integrate all the tools I need in one environment

No professional ever uses a text editor for programming. /g/ is a technological zoo, or a asylum where most mentally damaged people reside to measure their e-peen. They have ZERO idea of how shit works irl, which is why they shit on java , because of the pajeet meme. These are the people you should just look at, observe, and laugh at. Don't follow their advice. Their lives go by discussing intel vs AMD, their highlight of the day is what port is applel gonna remove. They spend their lives arguing how SICP is the best,they spend their days """configuring""" their shit distros because in it GIMP renders their loli wallpapers 0.000001ms faster. These people are human trash, always talking big but never actually accomplishing anything. 90% of them don't even program., or are uni students in CS101,just like 90% of /fit/ is DYEL. These people watch anime most of their time, and they ""code"" in text editors instead of IDEs because using vim and emacs reminds them that they have to get their carpal tunnel treated and that changing keybindings is totally a 1337 thing, totally. This is also why they have ""configured"" their distro to have a tiling wm with anime backgrounds, not because they like it but because it's aesthetic and schway. These people have never programmed anything above 1k lines(which was for their failed game they stopped working on), most complex thing they've made is a web scraping script in python, and they ""configure"" their distros following a step by step guide written by actual productive people for these normalfags in denial. Think about it. What kind of professinal, in his right mind would ever use a distro which he has to waste his time configuring ? I get it, distros need to be secure and customised, but people here don't actually care about that, they want to LARP . This board, is one big meme which you should cherish but never adopt. Only thing they're right to some extent (aka the good memes) about is thinkpads.

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>>62283729
>No professional ever uses a text editor for programming.
actually over 50% of them do
also stopped reading there

>inb4 replying to copypasta

>>62268567
IDE is a crutch that hides the fact that your code is becoming too complex. Reading a mountain of autogenerated IDE boilerplate code is torturous. If you use an editor with just a couple most useful tools, you'll be forced to make your code terse and easy to understand in order to keep control over it, and everyone who will ever maintain it will be thankful for that.

>>62283803
>IDE is a crutch that hides the fact that your code is becoming too complex.
no, it hides the fact that it's becoming COMPLEX. and very often you can't avoid complex code, unless of course you're a /dpt/ fizzbuzz programmer

Text editor is simple and just works, ide is complicated and confusing.

>>62268567
For java, yes, intellij. For php and js, no, a text editor with syntax highlighing is fine

>>62283851
>shovel is simple and just works, digger is complicated and confusing.

>>62283886
You know, thats basically true.
i dont want to learn how to operate a digger to plant something.

>>62283895
all you need to do is plant something, while other people have to prepare foundations for skyscrapers. that doesn't mean they have to use shovels because diggers are too complicated and confusing to operate

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>>62283955
Considered harmful

>>62283837
Sure, many problems are complex, but an IDE lets you get away with being lazy and needlessly overcomplicating things. Without an IDE you're forced to think how to make things simple.

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>>62283729
I get paid to program and i only use a syntax plugin and a plugin that is just a macro to yank into a tmux register
I also use linux as my daily driver on my t420

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>>62284037
>i'm a stupid contrarian who uses poor excuses to defend my edgyness

>>62283787
I've worked at IBM, google ,facebook and amazon. I've never seen a single person use notepad++ for a project. At IBM, people used RAD, at google we had a mixed bunch with people using text editors(sublime,none of them used vim or emacs ) and IDE which was based on eclipse. I was in management in fb and amazon, but I remember them using their own forks of eclipse . The list you pulled is more than likely from programmers who don't work for a company but work on small scale projects by themselves. People like you love to argue about text editors but then disprove yourself by using extensions which make them an IDE in the first place. You'll have the right to argue with me when you get a job so run along now
>>62283895
>learning an IDE
Brainlets, they never learn. It's not fucking vim that you need to learn the keys to save and exit.
>>62284037
IDE makes you program faster. Unless you're a /g/ faggot who starts small shitty projects and never competes them, and revels in the shitty one line "optimised" algorithm(already used by others) which saves 0.00000009ms

>>62268624
It's actually the opposite

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>>62269491
I thought you were exaggerating so I tried opening eclipse on my laptop. Pic related.

>>62268624
Superiority complex is just a stage of inferiority complex, you start thinking you are shit and then you start doing something thinking it'll make you look like hot shit. In both cases you are either shit or just not shit at all if you only got inferiority for some random reason.

>>62284073
Coding takes little time compared to reading code, designing a solution or testing. I'd rather code more slowly and produce maintainable code than quickly generate bloat.

>>62269114
>How do you compile with a text editor?
Key binding for invoking whatever build script you have

>How do you debug with a text editor?
By installing a plugin and using it as a front-end to the debugger, for example GDB

>How do you refactor with a text editor?
??? Do you mean automatic refactoring? Who does that IRL?

>How do you generate code with a text editor?
Who does this IRL?

>How do you generate class diagrams with a text editor?
Who does this IRL? Anyway, use doxygen or whatever documentation framework exists. Plenty of plugins allow automatic doxygen stubs to be created whenever you create a new function or class or whatever.

>How do you have errors, warnings, code smells, etc. automatically underlined/highlighted with a text editor?
Plenty of LINTers exist for vim and emacs.

>How do you get code completion with a text editor?
Already built-in in most editors, but use YouCompleteMe or some other plugin.

>How do you quickly access documentation for any type/method/function/etc. with a text editor?
Keybinding for "jump to definition" using ctags / cscope

>How do you easily manage dependencies and packages with a text editor?
Ewww, node.js fuck off

(pip plugins exist for vim)

>How do you quickly find usages of a certain type/method with a text editor?
ctags/ cscope

>How do you find dead, unused code with a text editor?
ctags / cscope

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>>62273808
>emacs vs vim
Both just as good as each other unless you go all the way down the rabbit hole where emacs will be better. I tried both but chose vim. Vim has command mode and text mode. Emacs just has text mode but you execute commands by pressing insane combinations of keys (Ctrl-x Ctrl-w to save a file). My hands hurt too much to keep that up.

>Can someone help me get started?
Run vimtutor from command line

>Fancy plugins?
Syntastic is good for code style.
Pathogen makes installing vim addons easy
Nerdtree is popular for file management but not necessary.
/r/vim is good to browse for suggestions.
Don't use more than you need.

>how learn keyboard shortcuts?
vimtutor

>how long does it take?
3 hours until you can use it comfortably. 20 hours until it is more efficient than ide.

>>62281322
Tex with vim is super comfy. I set up shortcuts ,l to build and ,v to open my pdf viewer. You can write a makefile if you need anything fancy like bibtex or stuff. Way easier than digging through an ide configs to change the build sequence for every new document.

>>62284073
>at google we had a mixed bunch with people using text editors(sublime,none of them used vim or emacs )
Some googlers do use vim
https://github.com/google?q=vim

>You'll have the right to argue with me when you get a job so run along now
I do have a job. I use IntelliJ :^)

>>62284465
>??? Do you mean automatic refactoring? Who does that IRL?
Basically every non-autist who works on non-trivial projects. Like, how much of a fizzbuzzer do you have to be to not even use basic ones like "extract method"?

>>62284073
What kind of area do you work in? I bet software devs use ides, IT gurus use vim and quantatative computing people are split.

>>62268567
Most of them set their editor up to work just like an IDE and pretend they're superior for it.

>>62277938
>Colour syntax highlighting is yet another bit of asshattery I just don't get
i like it so i don't accidentally overload anything important

>>62282546
A ridiculous learning curve and ruins everything else?

Sounds fucking awful.

>>62284636
What does "extract method" mean?

>>62285401
if by ruins you mean reveals as pure garbage then yes

you will never understand just how bad the accepted popular text editor paradigm is until you use Vim

>>62285418
https://refactoring.guru/extract-method

>>62284073
Google ditched eclipse for intellij fyi.

Im firmly in the IDEs are a good thing camp but Eclipse is the worst piece of shit I have ever had to use for anything.

IDEs aren't inherently bad, and in the right hands can be enormous productivity boosters. They just also make it easy to develop bad habits.

>>62268663
Yeah it's "make" in the terminal

P.s. graphical debugging can save a lot of time so both have their place

>>62272250
I am very sorry that you cannot read code, pajeet.

>>62281624
Two windows? Please explain I'm lost

>>62281778
The fucking game?

>>62268567
>used Vim+LaTeX for a few months
>go over to Word for one day to write some stuff
>JEEEEESUS CHRIST! Dollar signs everywhere, hjkl symbols everywhere, what the fuck even.

>>62285621
I'm a fucking beginner. So please bare with me. Google shit and I'm not getting answers. Ive learned more watching youtube videos but it's unbearable because every compiler video/tutorial on youtube is some fucking heavy accented indian. Not racist but I don't want to hear broken English. Anyways so after installing a compiler and debugger from the endless list of them. You make your shit in an editor, save it, pull it up on the cmd "C:/User/Joe/Documents/fagboy.cpp/make"? Is this correct?

>>62287697
you probably wouldn't be doing it on Windows but generally, yes

vim with all those autocomplete plugins and folding and syntax is slow as shit
pasting code into a buffer with syntax folding on can take minutes

>>62287814
I have windows. Why not? Fucking hate visual studio. I use it but I hate it. Visual Studio code is even a bigger piece of shit. C#/C++ before anyone asks. So what exactly is the plug in or whatever for editors that make the compiling only key or two away, if such thing exists?

Because you're only a hacker if you code in full screen amber/green vi and 80x25 res.

>>62287906
if you want to use make on windows you'll need some cross-compiled binaries through cygwin or mingw and in my experience trying to get that all to work is more of a headache than it's worth

>>62268585
>>62274440
hi where are the arguments

>>62287977
Any other options then?

>>62288191
you can use visual studio's compiler from the command line even if you don't use the IDE

>>62272250
>Intellisense
Stopped reading there.
M$ continued.

Modern programming languages use project management systems which give the programmer all the control on how their project is constructed and how dependencies are managed. Languages like Rust, Go, Haskell, all use these systems, it would be insane to go back to useing an IDE and be completely dependent on a non-open source company to try and provide these kinds of project management features that you have no control of.

>>62288559
I'm pretty sure both Gogland and IntelliJ Rust use the standard project structure and dependency management. IntelliJ Haskell plugin uses Stack which is BSD-3

>>62284476

>2009 + (vim) 8
>syntastic
>not using ALE

>>62285401

>Ridiculous learning curve

Only if you are brainlet

>>62275548
They're

Learn grammar and then fix clumsy mistakes of others

>>62285401
not really ridiculous. it's well worth it if you plan on programming for at least a couple of years in the future.
also what does it ruin exactly? I use vim mode in intellij and vscode. there's also a very good implementation in visual studio (which I was unfortunately forced to use back at my uni)

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>>62288801
Techpill me on ale, anon. How is it better than syntastic?

>>62268567
I spend all day editing various types of text. I'd rather do it in one program that I can kick ass in than in fifteen separate clunky programs and webapps.

>>62288301
How?

>>62289120
Oops
t. brainlet

>>62291719
Bump

I used to use text editors for everything, but I recently developed a fondness for Codelite. So now I use that for anything involving C/C++

If I want some custom behavior, someone has probably already written an emacs package for it. I haven't used an IDE since college, do they usually have easy access to a plugin repository or something for custom editing, refactoring, whatever?

I wanted to start getting desktop notifications when my tests finished, so I just added a call to notify-send in my test command. Are IDEs okay in stuff like this? I feel like it's the sort of thing where I would have to dig through layers and layers of stuff and finally give up, but I don't know.

THAT and I like my keybindings and can't imagine the pain of having to replicate them

>>62268567
Most of what I do is edit text. Good text editors like emacs and vim are better at it than "IDEs". Not to mention most of the good features of IDEs can easily be added into good text editors using plugins.

>>62268585
>I prefer to do my tasks with needless additional complexity
Is that why you use an IDE? I prefer the simplicity of a text editor.

>>62268663
Of course....

ITT: IDE users who have no idea what modern text editors are capable of
>b-but can you run make from your text editor???
How can somebody be this clueless?

>>62274440
Our text editor "IDEs" are slimmer and faster than your IDEs. My vim only loads plugins when they're needed, unlike your bloatware IDE that loads hundreds if not thousands of megabytes into memory every time you start it.

So as you admit, text editors do everything your IDE can do, but do it better. And you wonder why we use them?

>>62294203
I don't even know what text editor to get. I want to learn C++. I hate VS. Please educate me.

>>62270852
>how do I compile?
>btw I don't have a compiler
If you don't have a compiler, then why are you worrying about how to compile? The text editor isn't the problem. It's your brain. You obviously have a double-digit IQ.

>>62275548
>Their compatible with windows 7?
>Their
I see now why somebody like you would rely on IDEs to lead you by the hand.

>>62294252
Ouch! Which compiler do you recommend?

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>>62294259
Stop it! I'm hurting

because i haven't needed to use an IDE yet

i'll try it out when i have to and see how i feel then

>>62273369
>How do you rename your methods, types, namespaces, etc. everywhere for example? This isn't always as simple as a find and replace.
Macros.
>For example, changing namespaces in some languages can require updating using/import statements as well, or removing them if the type is now in the same namespace, etc.
Easy with macros.

>If you have all these fancy plugins that give your text editor IDE features, then it's now an IDE as well.
So then what are you bitching about?

>>Command line tool for this, command line tool for that
>Is that really more efficient than just having it right there in your IDE?
Considering these tools work better when they aren't hidden behind GUI bloatware by pajeets, yes.

>>62275656
>>Visual Studio on a Celeron/4gb laptop
>Jesus how?
He's full of shit, that's how.

>>62277938
>Needlessly crytic macro nonsense is another;
Macros in vim are very simple.

q[register] to start. q to end. @[register] to execute. I have <space> mapped to @q so I can record macros to the q register by mashing q twice, then press q again once to end the macro, then mash the spacebar as many times as I want to execute the macro.

noremap <Space> @q

Literally could not be simpler.

>>62278848
Text editors are what all young trendy white programmers use. Only asians and pajeets use IDEs.

No joke. It's an observable trend.

>>62281396
vim

>>62284073
>notepad++
The only people who use notepad++ are in middle school.

>amazon.
I know for a fact emacs is very popular at Amazon. When I worked there I always butted heads with my coworkers because I used vim.

>>62285401
It took me one weekend to learn vim. If you can't learn vim, you must have a very low IQ and probably have no business designing programs in the first place.

>>62294247

noremap <F9> :make<ENTER>

>>62294278
Wat? Googling how to program in <language> will give you better info than /g/

>>62294381
Master, where did you learn all your vimfu? I don't understand registers.

Because an ide doesn't really help me with languages I usually work with outside of basic shit I can get in a text editor like code completion, syntax and style checking.

>>62294505
A register is just a fancy name for a variable. Technically they're different from vimscript variables, but that's a weirdness of vimscript you can safely ignore. Some registers have special purposes, but registers a through z and 0 through 9 can be used for whatever you want.

:h registers

There are ten types of registers:
1. The unnamed register ""
2. 10 numbered registers "0 to "9
3. The small delete register "-
4. 26 named registers "a to "z or "A to "Z
5. three read-only registers ":, "., "%
6. alternate buffer register "#
7. the expression register "=
8. The selection and drop registers "*, "+ and "~
9. The black hole register "_
10. Last search pattern register "/

>>62294505
>where did you learn all your vimfu?
When you see a new concept, look it up in Vim's built-in help system using :h

Use the vimtutor (hint:

:h vimtutor

)

>>62294463
What?

>>62294590
That mapping makes F9 your build key.

>>62282546
> takes a minute with lots of pauses of thinking what to do
editing text shouldn't require this much thinking, it stops thinking of the actual code being written. fuck it just copy and paste the <td>s in an IDE and be done with it instead of worrying about which cryptic vim command to use

>>62294438
I don't care how long it took you to learn vim. Any amount of time is too much.

Vim is old as fuck and massively outdated (probably like you). Ill stick with my IDE of superior design.

>>62294606
Nice.

>>62268567
>Why you guys like text editors over IDE?

Because NEETs.

>ctrl + f
>no mention of Kate

>>62294606
I told you I don't even know what text editor to get. So where the fuck do I type that?

>>62294828
What's the best IDE?

>>62294646
>spending any amount of time to learn a tool is too much time
That's a very childish attitude.

>>62294865
That's for vim or neovim.

>>62270890
Who the fuck would do that? Why wouldn't you use a proper word processor with spacing etc?

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>>62294913
Not a brainlet
t. Demigod

>>62294897
>neovim
How come nobody ever mentions it?

Because having <5% CPU usage and <120MiB RAM usage on an X220 is amazing.

>>62294944
It's a drop-in replacement for vim. So usually there isn't a reason to mention it since whatever you're saying applies to both.

Neovim is better though. Cleaner code, and the features it implements have been getting copied in Vim, neovim essentially driving development of both.

>>62294999
I think i will get it.
I'm not being memed, right?
You bastards play with us newfags too much.

>>62295055
No, neovim is legit. Actively developed and leading the way for the future of Vim.

>>62295117
Thanks

>>62294195
underrated post

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Best guide for getting into Vim? I don't want to be retarded forever.

>>62294931
t. I watch Rick and Morty religiously

>>62296794
vimtutor

>>62294195
>simplicity
>vim

>>62294225
ITT: "Text editor" users who have no idea their text editors are actually IDEs because they have IDE features

>>62294873
Visual Studio with ReSharper.

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>>62294931
>bounds checks
>namespaces
>templates
>function overloading
>strings
>resizable arrays
Half of the stuff in here are basic principles or language features and the other half are buzzwords.
I hope the retard who made this image is proud of himself.

>>62294873
kek

Depends. For web, I like to use Kate, for python I like to use an IDE.

>>62294857
Kate is great.

>>62291719
Not him but ale does the syntax checking async, no reason to use syntastic if you are on a recent vim version

desu async syntax checking is the only thing I miss since switching to emacs

>>62297251
The question would be retarded if it was about whether you should program in notepad. Everyone but you was smart enough to understand it's about the approach - either starting with an editor and adding IDE features you realize you need, or starting with an IDE and learning as many tools as you can whether you need them or not.

Anyone want to share their vim config file where you make it as much like an IDE as possible?

>>62298158
Grrr... Gedit is better than kate

>>62284071
I want to scrape that all off

>>62294558
Don't pretend vim helpfiles aren't frightfully oblique.
>>62294536
>A register is just a fancy name for a variable.
So you mean it functions like a bunch of different clipboards you can copy/paste text from and you refer to each one by the register name?