Can they do this? Are our houses literally a botnet?

you get cheaper rates overall if you left them do it.

>>62247017
>kilowatt counters for billing since the 1900's
>botnet
shoo shoo AC burger

>>62247017
How will they do that? Supply lower voltage than required for ac to run?

>>62247017
Just don't tell the A/C your wifi password

I think some California homes can do this

>>62247054
Those devices connect to a mobile network just as your phone does. No way to stop this other that Faraday caging your house.

>>62247017
It's about time.

Setting your ac to temperatures that make you need a fucking sweater in your house is an americlap idiocy.

>>62247017
>cut power for 10sec
>AC doesn't turn on by itself
I don't think that standard AC's come with the electronics to be controlled remotely - besides your normal remote control

>>62247017
I have no problem with burger's energy usage being rationed.

>>62247107
t. Japanese businessman

>>62247123
This is a matter of very little time.

>>62247131
Thats an aussie news program m8.
>mfw comfy here with my swamp cooler

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>>62247017
I have central AC. No wifi, no schedules, literally just a spinny dial thermostat to set a temperature digitally and button for it to light up in the dark.

Literally pic related. I would be real interested to see how they could remotely "turn down" the A/C. Hell, to turn it off, they would need access to my breaker box, or to turn off the power from the street.

>>62247017
Related:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXhKVA7UStY&index=2&list=LLWxO5vwK4vxIVTBc3BiRNBA

>>62247131
This. Give them the North Korea feeling.

>>62247102
Even worse. They connect via data over power lines. Like those ethernet outlets you can plug in to run wifi across your home power line.

>>62247177
That you can actually filter from your power lines.

>>62247160
Never heard of a saver switch?

>>62247177
did you guys ever hear of a band-pass-filter?

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>>62247131

>nine news australia

>>62247017

This country is a JOKE.

https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/2017/09/one-energy-fix/

>>62247194
You talking about the ones that let you set up a schedule for when you're out of the house, yeah?

I work 3rd shift. Literally no reason to use one in the summer, and electricity is cheap and abundant in the winter.

ive been fucking calling this for years

"""""smart""""" homes = giving remote control of your own house to someone else

since it's only a matter of time before the banks own every house in america, they will soon make it mandatory for this bullshit to be installed or you will not get your loan approved (and 99% of the population can't afford an entire house out of pocket) so they will literally be able to turn the lights out whenever and wherever they please all in the name of "saving energy"

please, libertarians, explain to me one more time how the """""free""""" market is not to blame for this insanity, and how the banks and corporations are indeed well within their right to turn off your lights? here, i'll get you started:

>but dats not weel wibertawianism!
>omg ur just a butthurt statist!
>im not a poorfag i make 60k a year as a replaceable cubiclecuck so i have nothing to worry about!
>but that would hurt their business! i could just switch to another company (that will do the exact same thing because it's an oligopoly)!

>>62247198
Or just a low-pass filter in this case.

Where i live here they can do that, but tv ac food compressor microwave and dekstop couldn't turn at all. Only low power wattage stuff like lamp fan router etc. Stupid fugg

>digital powermeter
100% botnet.

>>62247230
Yep.

>>62247229
I dont see why would they want it.

>>62247250
They'll become mandatory due to absolute lobbyism.
>tfw no one can ever pay a profit-oriented company enough to not make extra money on selling your data.

>tfw no ac
Feels bad man

>>62247273
If a considerable amount of your devices become a service, net neutrality for the power grid is history.

>>62247250
I've still got the one with all the dials. Thank fuck.

>>62247017
Competition will sort that out. People will just go to suppliers who don't think they run their lives and they'll get the money.

Fuck companies who think they can control what you pay for.

>>62247316
>>62247229
>>but that would hurt their business! i could just switch to another company (that will do the exact same thing because it's an oligopoly)!

change to the same policy because it's hard to keep up when someone's making their margin on being an asshole

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>>62247273

simple: because the bankers worked very hard to make all that money and also worked very hard to completely take over the real estate market where nearly every free citizen has to get a loan through them to buy a house. since they have worked so hard, they then have the right to enforce whatever contract obligations necessary to protect their hard-earned wealth. if the people do not want their remote control power meters in their house, that's fine, they can just live on the street, which they deserve because they are too poor to afford anything else, because they are stupid and did not work hard enough. now, since the bank already has these requirements in their very fair contract, they can absolutely decide when and where should be saving less power, because their hard-earned wealth must be protected from needless waste, such as using more than the allotted amount of power, which again was fairly determined by the aforementioned contract,

if you disagree with anything of this you are literally a statist, a communist, a lazy freeloading loser and an america-hating traitor.

>>62247131
>>62247171
>t. Energiewende

>>62247338
Ayn Rand, is it you?

>>62247316
I get what you're saying, but it's more like saying you are gonna go to gamestop because walmart is out of Playstations during launch. If they can't produce the power that's demanded, there's not a lot that can be done.

I mean, they could order and install a new turbine, but that takes tens of millions of dollars to do, as well as time, as each one is made to order.

If you are hitting 150 MW at peak hours, and you're only capable of producing 140 MW, you can either invest in another turbine, which will cost the community, or they can attempt to shed load.

I'm not defending them, but it's not like "I'll just go to the competitor," is a solution, as they only have a finite supply, too.

>>62247338
>commies irl
mmmm that black boot is so sexy would love to get stomped on for eternity

yea this is totally free market at work no government collusion at all nope wouldn't happen

>>62247373

it is 100% the american citizens' fault for allowing their government to reach such an abominable state

>>62247017
I could see them perhaps making a smart thermostat a requirement for owning an AC so they can control energy usage. It's pretty 1984 tho. Thank God I don't live in Australia.
>>62247250
>botnet
Literally all they can see is total energy usage, no different than a meter maid coming by and recording it in a computer.

>>62247419
but yet somehow if the same citizens entered into magical commie utopia that would fix their apathy and neglect of civics?

>>62247460

>you can only have full free market capitalism or complete communism

literally the same argument that braindead reddit commies use. you two groups would actually get along a lot better than you think

>>62247491
we have a mix of the two right now and your bitching about it. lemme guess you want more free shit like welfare

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>>62247017
If you have a Smart Meter, yeah, it could easily happen.

>>62247460
No. But they have to change their attitude a lot or they will use capitalism to something that just has the label and looks like it.
They already lost a lot of it, and are pretty close to a pseudodemocratic communism, where privileged people make the rules and decide who's up for election.
It's a huge fucking slap with the barn door of irony, that the indoctrinations set to counter communism lead directly to it.

>there are companies becoming big, you can still make it blah blah
Well, you can also "make it" in communism.

>>62247544
>indoctrinations set to counter communism lead directly to it.

such as?

>>62247499
>develop protocol to communicate with major appliances
>OMG SMARTHOME
>gubmint and private companies now have direct control of your living standard

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Power rationing is the result of poor decisions.

>>62247621
Yup.

>set up your AC to turn on and warm your home before you get home, while the sun is still up so you get some added heating
>power company turns off your AC
>come home to a cold home, have to turn on the AC higher to heat it before bed
>end up using the same amount of power

>>62247499
thanks capitalism

>>62247229
libertarian ideology does not allow agents to act however they please in a market. That would be anarcho-capitalism, which is more part anarchist than libertarian. Anarchists are just morons.

What libertarian ideology would prevent is bullshit like government enforced monopolies where municipals are not legally allowed to build their own telco infrastructure because AT&T or whoever else lobbied a higher level of government.

This is all about load shedding/load leveling so that power companies don't have to build new plants. Add in the volatility of renewables without viable storage options and their business operations are getting turned upside down.

>>62247544
Every president was decided by privilege no matter what country you're from. Poor people or even Middle can't become president. You gotta be in the pockets of a lot of rich people

How do we stop capitalism lads?

>>62247737
>>>/r/eddit

>>62247737
Fix communism.

>>62247737
you don't. You shape it and control it to the benefit of all people.

The other experiment failed, don't try pulling that shit.

>>62247755
>communism can be fixed

>>62247756
But the current experiment is failing.

>>62247755
Good direction.

>>62247724

>hurrdurrhurr not weel capituwism

put a fuckin ushanka on you and say "communism" instead and i wouldn't be able to tell the difference between you and a commie

>>62247796
It truly is weird how vehement capitalists and communist sound exactly the same. At most changing a noun or two.

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>>62247767
>capitalist countries have the highest living standards
>failing

>>62247767
The current experiment has lead to a better quality of life for a mind-boggling amount of people.

How was life in the CCCP? How was life in Mao's China? How is life in Xi's China?

Banks and energy companies controlling your homes is not good, but are you willing to throw away your entire lifestyle and essentially become agrarian because of that? How many people need to starve to death?

>>62247796
Yeah fuck off, I'm no commie.

>>62247831
You one of those radical centrist I hear about?

>>62247229
regulatory capture

>>62247856
Nope.

>>62247846
So, just because on average things have gotten slightly better, we should just completely and utterly love capitalism and refuse to look for better solutions?
Jesus christ the brainwashing is absolutely unreal.

>>62247870
>we should just completely and utterly love capitalism and refuse to look for better solutions?

did I say that? No, I didn't.

Meanwhile, you want to throw out capitalism in favour of something we have demonstrated many times doesn't work, because energy companies might be able to turn your AC down. (Instead of just preventing this behaviour).

And I'm the brainwashed one?

fuck off.

>>62247577
>"work hard and you will be rewarded"
Socialism even gave medals and privileges for "heroes of labour", aven mentioned them on state television, it was about as useful.
>"brainwork is no real work" and a lot of subsequent statements
It's kind of ironic to call all intellectuals leftist & communist because if you weren't an engineer or MD you had no value to a realcommunist society. Which is fairly the same state of antiintellectualism currently going round.
>privileged people must have done something right, poor people must be bad guys
Ayn Rand, ladies and gentlemen
People with low ranks or outside the party were denied a lot of things, like college education or vacation because something mustn't have been right about them.
>If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear
Of course you need to decide who you can give privileges to.
Eastern German Stasi would come buckets if they had today's technology and the people's willingness to subject.

So much for the similarities that still can be explained by "that's how real societies work"

But: Communism was powerful because it enabled and enforced distrust against one another so no meaningful opposition could form. Something the west only started to do with Nixon/Thatcher. Now we have think tanks bringing up people against each other. Worse: competing think tanks led by people that very well shake hands with each other on higher administrative levels.

One could say communism needs a leader, but that is not correct. Stalin aside it has always been governed by the majority of the privileged circles.

Really, the current installment of the west isn't too different from socialism/communism. It's just that passed privileges in the US have little numbers attached to them. And even that diminuishes the higher you get up, because the same networking is required here and there. Also the faces stay the same, just the galleon figures change occasionally.

>>62247912
yes, oligarchs and totalitarianism are real things.

>>62247735
It's always possibly to get up. But not by the means advertised by society, they are designed to keep you in place.

>>62247944
funny how one economic system is more associated with these two attributes than another one.

>>62247891
Capitalism has demonstrated multiple times, including now, that it just doesn't fucking work. It takes all the power away from people and gives it to corporations. Why are you OK with this? What the living fuck is wrong with you?

>>62247959
because it's more overt

You have to opt into this, it's not mandatory

Yes your house is or will be a bot net though. I already had a smart meter installed on my house by the power company allowing real time usage monitoring.

>>62247965
I'm OK with this because I fucking like having modern healthcare (which has directly saved my life multiple times AT NO PERSONAL COST - because I don't live in a country that practices american crony-capitalism). I'm OK with this because I fucking like being able to go choose and buy a home. I'm OK with this because I fucking like being able to fuck who I like, whenever I like. I'm OK with this because I'm not OK with being put in a fucking gulag.

What evidence or proof do you have that your proposals work? Where in history can you point to and say "look, this is better than what we have right now in the western world"?

>>62247998
>like having modern healthcare
Institutions of socialism, mind you. But sure, capitalism gets all the credit for the good stuff in your mind.

>>62248012
How is healthcare in China these days?

How was access to healthcare in the USSR?

There is a damn big difference between the social democratic model of the west and the communist model of the east.

>>62247965
>take power from corporations
>let's give it to the gobbermint
Same result. Rather stick with the vampire than a zombie. At least we know the vampire's weaknesses.

>>62248012
can you niggers define socialism already because you bitch when we call welfare socialism then claim it as your own when convenient.

>>62248031
Neither of them utilize socialism though.
Socialism isn't communism babe (although it can lead to such), go back to school.

>>62248039
Social security is in fact an institution of socialism. I don't know which twitter accounts get mad at you over that, but whatever.

>>62248090
lots on the left mock the right for calling welfare socialism.

>>62248090
>Socialism isn't communism babe
>(although it can lead to such)

Well that other faggot was arguing for "fixing" communism and throwing out the "failing experiment" that is western social democracy (which yes, has socialist influence but is inherently capitalistic).

So thanks for the great input mate.

>>62247017

>Are our houses literally a botnet
>houses

nigger, the government can turn off most cars build after 2000 if they really wanted to.

Start preparing now man, get your shit in analog, buy freeze-dried vacuum-packed food, and carry a spiral notebook or some shit to keep track of things.

>>62248159
prepare for what?

>>62247358
The population will never increase so short term management policies are all that is necessary.

>>62247123
I live in mid FL and the past week we've had a few seconds of power outages every day. Not sure if it's a brownout or what you said. AC starts back up automatically though, but I do have an Ecobee.

>>62247998
>"look, this is better than what we have right now in the western world"?
Well, one could say the Cuban medical system is extremely solid.

But I'm not the guy you replied to, and that's not the question you should ask.

Because there are many "western worlds", and they always have to compete with their own pasts or we don't get what's changing or could be done better. Life expectancy for instance was highest in the 90's, public health skyrocketed in the US lately due to "socialist measures".

>>62248173
could be grid work or just a flaky local grid.

>>62248164

Our inevitable descent as a first world country.

Go out and get some cheap land in the country, get to know your neighbors there, and start buying books on homesteading and building.

Everyone will think you're paranoid until the shit really hits the fan and you're the only guy willing and able to field dress a deer.

>>62248193
Or it could be Florida. Just sayin'.

>>62248125
Twitter democrats I like to call them. They stand for absolutely nothing and understand absolutely nothing except "opposite of the right".

>>62248140
He's stupid in that case.

It comes down to the greater good. The infrastructure is unable to handle the draw, so instead of letting the system break they just disable parts of it.

>>62248216
>He's stupid in that case.
yes, i agree.

>>62247724
>that would be anarcho-capitalism
Why oh why are people making up useless words to describe something that already exists?

You're describing a free market, and the term "anarcho-capitalism" is an oxymoron.

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>>62248252
yeah, why do people make up words?

>>62248281
your point?

>>62248252
>You're describing a free market
Basically people "make up" new terms because there was some part in history when they found out that a "free market" is a much to vague term to describe anything properly.

>>62248290
my point being the phrase is in the vernacular, so it is not incorrect for me to use it.

especially when a group uses it to label themselves and their ideology even.

>>62248252
no he isn't his flavor of libertarian has some regulatory framework

>>62248313
exactly. Only anarchists completely reject a regulatory framework, society forms because people need rules and regulations to govern their interactions for the benefit of the whole.

"My flavour" of libertarian seeks only to minimise abuses of those regulations, as flaws are inherent to every system of economy and governance.

>>62247017
No they can't

>>62247017
>muh renewables
>energy crisis

>>62248351
and other libertarians would argue that to have the power to regulate would make it susceptible to corporate capture and corruption.

>>62248379
Those people are fundamentally flawed in ideology.
Utopia does not exist and predicating your ideals on the imagination of a perfect society is dumb.

There is no way to combat abuse of a system without a greater majority deciding on morals and a regulatory group enforcing those morals. AnCap, Communism, pure free markets, etc., are all a fantasy.
Think about your beliefs, think about every fucking aspect of them.

>>62248437
I couldn't agree more. Free for whom is what I think when someone says free markets.

>>62248377
just 9 news fearmongering like always though.

operator jew-ry and governmental tardiness and incompetence is the only reason for sa's power problem, not renewables. the entire nation's grid is connected, sa can get as much power as it needs they just need to pay for it. shit isn't free, you gotta put infrastructure in or pay the wholesale rate to import it.

>came here because I'm tired of /pol/
heh it backfired quickly, well fuck you I'm off to the beach

>>62248591
these guys are unironically weening toward national socialism though, what's the problem?

>>62248213
>>62248193
Yeah both of those are what I'm thinking (brownout). It is FL suburbs where everyone has 4-5 ton central AC units.

>>62247017
What I don't get: Isn't there an abundance of power to run air conditioners when it's hot?

Solar power is cheap as fuck to install these days.

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>>62247107
>pay a lot of money in summer to keep house cold
>pay no money in winter because dont use heater
>be nice and comfy year round in my own home
poorfags will never understand

>>62248992
>Solar power is cheap as fuck
Inefficient chink panels that have to be subsidized are

>>62248379
>he fell for the memes

>>62247965
>Capitalism has demonstrated multiple times, including now, that it just doesn't fucking work
he says, typing on computation device on the freedom of the world wide web from his air conditioned house

>>62247017
>buy an ac to cool your house down
>cant use it because it uses power and your power company limited it
might as well not buy one, kek

>save some watts during peak usage
>heat stroke incidents increase

wew this is so cuck'd

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>>62247735
>Poor people or even Middle can't become president.

>>62249126
What memes?

>>62247041
Nigga do you know how electricity works?

>>62247017
Build Th-MSR power plants already.
Best form of nuclear, huge power for minimal byproducts.

if they take away my summer blanket temperatures I'm going to do something to a federal building in Oklahoma

>>62247041
It only works if the house is wired to allow it. I.E. xcel has little boxes that if you opt in will turn off your AC during high load periods. Rather than deal with that bullshit, I lease solar panels to keep my energy usage closer to the 500kwh/mo point where they start up-charging.

>>62249290
Created partially by a gay man who advocated against capitalism. On a system created by a military firm. On hardware created by government subsidized companies.
Is this what you think capitalism at its greatest is? You really tried that desperately for a GOTCHA but don't even fucking realize that Capitalism is the tumor - not the host.

>>62247160
When the power company forces you to fit a smart power meter giving them the ability to monitor your usage and remotely limit or disconnect your power or they will disconnect you completely.

>>62247287
Just get proper windows. Triple or quad-glass. The railroad agency upgraded the windows on one side of my house in a bribe to avoid people bitching about noise. That side of the house was comfortably cool even on a sizzling hot summer day.