The absolute truth

>>61960351
Doesn't Android depend on Java?

File: wp2.png (1MB, 1920x1080px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 1920x1080px

but what about visual basic

>>61960351
Replace shit tier for job tier, or alternatively add JS there. Or both.

>>61960351
>pho professional tier
It was perfect except this.

>>61960406
pajeet tier

>>61960351
>Professional tier
>not Go, C++ and python
Shit, not even C++ anymore, just Go and python

Perl is a dead and crusty language, php is, has always been and will always be trash

Everything else is true though

>>61960351
Everything should be done in rust

File: python.png (184KB, 2000x2000px) Image search: [Google]

184KB, 2000x2000px

>>61960351
>python in hacker tier
/g/ will hate it, but this is the god damn truth. Most every white hat/black hat uses python to automate and get shit done because it's quick and just works.

The ancient depreciated garbage that is C being in professional tier makes this entire chart retarded

How about pascal?

>bait tier

this chart

>>61961479
epic

>>61960351
hacker tier is more likely the unix-like tier

>>61961527
Perl is a de facto network exploit language. Hacker tier no contest.
Python is actively used by scientists as well as babby's first language for students. Bad suited for hacker tier, well suited for enthusiast tier.
The entire point of PHP is being easy for retards. Putting it in professional tier is just laughable.
Java definitely should go into professional tier even if you are upset by its existence. C# most likely too, even though I am upset by its existence.

>>61960351
>php in pro tier

>>61961221

>saying something positive about python on /G/


how dare you

>>61961221
Python is garbage.

>>61961739
I'm sure all of the speakers at global hacker cons agree with you.

>>61960351
PHP is trash and Perl is hipster tier. Python and ASM are shit regardless if popular.

And LISP is more hipster than the big website + big data Scala.

>>61961739
>>61961690
There's languages designed to run quickly, and there's languages designed to code for quickly.
Not entirely sure if python is the BEST for the second case, but you need both.

>tfw you consider learning LUA just so you can edit some WoW addons.

>>61961829
>asm is shit
pleb detected. you just need to get good. preferably before commenting on programming languages again.

>>61960351
Please stop trolling

>>61960351
The only absolute truth I see here is that you've never had a job in programming. I use C and Lua on a daily basis at work and my job is neither "hacker" tier nor is it something I do as an enthusiast (because, you know, its a job.)

File: lua.gif (5KB, 256x255px) Image search: [Google]

5KB, 256x255px

>>61961872
Are you a retard? It's spelled Lua, since it's an actual word; it means moon in Portuguese.

>>61960351
perl and python are backwards

>>61960351
Missing Rust

>>61961897
I've seen it typed that way quite a bit, no need to get autistic about it.

>>61961872
same, gotta port some shit to 1.12

>>61960670
I am learning programming and I choose one compiled language and one scripting language. Go & Python. Feels good to know it is considered professional by my fellow /g/entleman.

>>61961846

>what is sarcasm

>>61961872

I learnt Lua so i could make fancy weakauras back when i was raiding hardcore.

>>61961924
Learn something other than go; you'll need it.

>>61961567
C# is java but better in every way

>>61962172
Disagree.

>>61961924
Learn a bit of each even if /g/ hates it, like Haskell simply to get more insight into the possibilities

>>61962184
haskell is amazing tho, so much fun

where belongs nodejs meme

>>61962198
Haskell is extremely difficult to anything productive with.

>>61961970
Usually get people to leak theirs right now but it would be helpful to know how to do it on my own anyway.

>>61961749
My HR manager uses Python. She only learnt it to avoid talking to her husband during a phase he had but it comes very muhc in handy.

>>61961739
>>61961749
>>61961846

let me tell you a story

> Guido van Rossum
> creator of Python
> hired by Google to do python shit
> His first project is some code review tool
> large scale, hundreds of thousands of lines
> performance starts to degrade
> storing pickled objects in a database is super slow
> real programmers start to notice that Python is un--fucking-maintainable
> no one wants to work on the piece of shit that is Mondrian
> Guido starts eating lunch alone
> eventually leaves for Dropbox.
> team that took over his project end up throwing every last bit away
> and rewrite it in Java.
> massively faster, way less buggy, no need to rollback twice a week

If the author of the language can't even right a good program, what chance do any of you have?

>>61962227
That's amazing if true.

>>61962211

Yeah we had a guy who knew a guy who usually got the weakauras pretty early on. It was still pretty usefull to be able to make proper weakauras for any alternate strats we used though.

>>61961498
>How about pascal?
Is employed tier

>>61962227
Most vidya game devs are pretty meh at their own games.

>>61962269
Dead and buried tier. Employed as a gravedigger tier. Necrophilia tier.

>>61962255
My last GM wasn't the greatest player but he always weaseled his way into serenity's skype groups and their WAs really early

>>61960396
You can write android apps in C++ just as well and the run better. There is no need to do that in Java.

>>61960351
I like this ranking. C, asm, Python are the only languages I know (other than a bit of frontend).

>>61962227
> If the author of the language can't even right a good program

He might have made questionable choices regarding DB. Just look at reddit. It was made in Python.

>>61960351
/g/ tier is absolutely wrong. Never heard of someone coding in VB on /g/.

/g/ tier should be haskell, C, ASM and python

>>61960351
>Poo

>>61963345
>Just look at reddit. It was made in Python.
No wonder its cancer

>>61960351
What is the Poo language?

>>61960351
How can a language be shit?
More java jobs then professional tier has

>>61962205
In India

>>61961479
i hope you get cancer, you autist faggot.

>>61960351
Don't talk rubbish about Scala, mate

>>61961897
People who all-caps things that aren't all caps like Java and apparently Lua need to drop dead.

Why is Perl in pro tier when everyone is starting to use Python over it nowadays?

> Perl
> Professional year
is this $current_year?

>>61960351
I HAVE A JOB TIER:
>Java, Python, PHP, C#, HTML, CSS
I PROBABLY DON'T HAVE A JOB TIER:
>C, ASM, C++, Perl, Lua, Lisp, Haskell

>>61962227
Python is not suited for "large scale, hundreds of thousands of lines" projects, like any dynamically typed language, because codebase is becoming mess.

Python is best for quick scripting.
For enterprise-tier large projects you probably want use C#

>>61963850
Thank you, based Microsoft shill.

>>61963871
>if you like something you must be Evil Corporate Shill

C# is objectively good language
>statically typed
>nice reflection capabilities
>maximum comfy syntax
>operator overloading
>structs and unsafe code with manual memory management
>rich standard library

it's lack multiplatform capabilities are still pain in the ass, but .Net Core is going in good direction

name better statically typed managed language

>>61963871
C# is becoming more and more open sores, so who gives a shit

Where's JS?

>>61963503
this, it's fucking obnoxious how desperate they are for atention

File: smug.jpg (29KB, 257x320px) Image search: [Google]

29KB, 257x320px

>>61960396
>smartphones

>>61963917
>C# is useless without .NET
>a proprietary and closed environment

>statically typed
It's still pretty weakly typed, since you can cast to everything.
>nice reflection capabilities
Python's are way nicer
>maximum comfy syntax
More than Python's? I doubt it.
>operator overloading
So does Python have, although I personally think it's a bad thing.
>unsafe code with manual memory management
Implying this is a good thing and not overused as fuck. You generally want to avoid this, which is why you instead allow your language to be easily extended with C and C++
>rich standard library
So does Python.

Seriously, your only argument for choosing C# over Python is muh static types, which is a copout for strong types anyway.

>>61960351
Nah, /g/ makes the logo for some hipster's HTML.
Unless an anime tracker goes down and they need to pump out a replacement before the next episode of their weekly chinese entertainment gets subbed.

File: I_like_APL_graphic.jpg (58KB, 266x400px) Image search: [Google]

58KB, 266x400px

>>61960351
What tier is APL?

>>61960351
B-but where is my M-Ma-Matlab

>>61963986
I feel sorry for you.

I keep seeing this, the only people who don't absolutely love C#, are people who never finished a project in C#.

It's the most comfy language out there.

>>61964408
Nice logical fallacies there, anon.

>>61963986
Have you even read my post?
I love Python and i love C#. They have different use cases.

>only argument for choosing C# over Python is muh static type
and maintainability and performance

>>61960351
but but muh Scratch

>>61964447
>and maintainability and performance
C# is not somehow magically more maintainable, and as for performance, I highly doubt your claims. For specific micro-benchmarks, sure. But not overall.

File: 1503030175523.png (141KB, 800x700px) Image search: [Google]

141KB, 800x700px

What does this make me?

>>61963409
it's processing, a king of weird java-programmed & java-like learn-to-code language

>>61960351
>php
>not below shit tier
OP is a faggot.

>>61964472
a faggot

>>61964472
A rapable asshole

>>61964472
>What does this make me?
It probably makes you me.

>>61964503
>>61964507
These are also true for me though.

>>61960351
html is good if you don't have any knowledge about programming and want to know the whole idea od doing it
>>61964472
an autist

>>61960351
>c++ professional
I know of maybe one place that unironically uses c++ near me. C++ is mostly a toy language otherwise. Java is something that almost all of the enterprise world uses

>>61964503
>>61964507
>>61964516
>>61964525
I'm getting mixed messages here, guys.

>>61964463
>C# is not somehow magically more maintainable
Static typing helps maintaining and refactoring codebase

>For specific micro-benchmarks, sure. But not overall
Well, if you just reject benchmarks as argument I don't now how do you want to compare performances

>>61964534
>enterprise world
Also known as the expendable wagecuck world.

I've had three developer jobs, and they all used primarily C++. Enjoy being stuck with shitty web-backends and system buses.

>>61964555
what was these jobs if i may ask?

>>61964545
>Static typing helps maintaining and refactoring codebase
Static typing is nothing more than a copout. There isn't a single Python IDE that doesn't offer some sort of linter that will catch that you're passing something that violates the expected interface and has the possibility to do dynamic inference on known types.

>Well, if you just reject benchmarks as argument I don't now how do you want to compare performances
Well, you can look at what the languages are actually used for.

There are embedded dev kits, such as Intel Gallileo and Arduino, that allow you to write Python.

All of the popular neural net frameworks support Python.

Python has had stable CUDA bindings since forever, C# CUDA bindings are highly experimental.

Python has numpy and scitools, frequently used to crunch numbers on par with R and MATLAB. Is there even any such frameworks available for C#?

>>61964525
>html is good if you don't have any knowledge about programming and want to know the whole idea od doing it
Doing it wrong, you mean.

>>61963409
Sounds indian to me

>>61964582
First job was a making the backend for a DAM system specialised for organising images and video and allowing elastic search in image and video metadata. Even though it was a web application, we used C++ for backend because it did a lot of heavy file operations and simple image and video processing.

Second job were making networking probes and server applications for real-time network and video analysis for IPTV and OTV video providers. The project I was involved with there was making a program that joined a PIM-SM multicast stream, and extracted MPEG-4 AVC/HVEC video out of the transport stream in order to provide statistics about audio quality in real-time.

Current job is being a government employed PhD student that collaborates with a company that makes PCIe interconnects, and the goal of the project is to exploit the memory model of PCIe to make a new approach to sharing IO resources in a PCIe cluster.

>>61961872
I learned Lua to rice AwesomeWM and make it look similar to Windows 10. I currently have a volume slider nearly doneish that uses 15-25% cpu and I'm really proud of it.

>>61964595
Please stop being retarded.

pymeme, php, cpp -> shit
scala, hasklel ->enthusiast
lua -> hipster

>>61964998
Such a great argument yet again, anon.

>>61961221
Why not Perl though

>>61960670
c++ and python
c python interop is all the rage right, you can get shit done fast, faster

>>61965359
Can confirm, former massive surveillance state employee here, business logic in python, cryto/window api calls through C was pretty standard. You can get some quick and powerful code up and going in no time.

File: Santana_is_disgusted.gif (602KB, 500x280px) Image search: [Google]

602KB, 500x280px

>>61963970
>animeposting

>>61962345
>and the run better
You do realize Android doesn't use the JVM, Java is just the language that the project decided to use. Everything still runs on Dalvik or ART no matter what language you use.

>>61965436
Art is still a jvm that's interpreting java bytecode

>shitting on visual basic
Fuck off faggot

>>61965482
art doesn't execute jvm bytecode

>ctrl + f
>fortran
>0 results

Is fortran so useless?
The only people I know who used was my university's teacher.

>>61965669
FORTRAN is useless. The Defense industry is known for being slow as hell (I don't blame them), and they only use Ada.

>>61965669
FORTRAN have pretty much the same application areas as C, but there are just more people who know C, who write C, hence more people use C as well.

>>61965669
It's not useless at all.

It's just delegated to scientific use when you need the fastest data crunching you can get (huge matrix multiplications, vector and graph operations, etc.), and it's this are that most new libraries written in FORTRAN are about, and where it has an actual edge in speed over other languages.

Essentially, it's C for data crunching.

File: 1503030175523.png.jpg (89KB, 800x700px) Image search: [Google]

89KB, 800x700px

do i win

File: 24603545db7659251db3c87f6b3dde87.jpg (110KB, 781x446px) Image search: [Google]

110KB, 781x446px

>>61965434
>>61963970

>>61962227
>code review tool
so stupid obfuscated cia bullshit no one needs.

>>61964595
Static typing has real tangible benefits, especially on larger teams. Work on some real projects with other people some time and you'll realize the price you pay for dynamics.

>>61966250
>Work on some real projects with other people some time and you'll realize the price you pay for dynamics.
I have, and no, we didn't have problems because, you know, we weren't literal retards.

LINTers, unit tests, documentation, system tests etc, all catch any such problems. As I've stated all along, static typing is merely a copout. It doesn't bring any additional value to typesafety in itself.

>>61960351
>python
>hacker tier
OP confirmed brainlet.

OP also confirmed to have never worked in a software job ever, desu.

>>61966278
Static typing is a unit test on every variable you don't need to write. Just specify the expected type and you're done.

File: 1502980625692.jpg (59KB, 1024x576px) Image search: [Google]

59KB, 1024x576px

So what's a better alternative to js and php since they're both shit?

>>61966334
Static typing means very little when your language allows C-style casting and every variable inherits from the same supertype, desu senpai.

>>61966250
Dynamic typing is only bad when done badly.

Lisp, for example, is dynamic because this enables metaprogramming; Clojure developers (mainly people who want working with Java to not be existential hell) have tried adding types to the language but found that it was mostly a placebo because Lisp makes it easy to right sensible code anyway.

In comparison, languages like Ruby are dynamically typed as a performance consideration because very high level scripting languages are extremely slow.

>>61966359
Haskell for php.
You don't need JS.

Programming noob here
Aren't HTML and CSS the basics? What am I suppose to learn instead?

>>61965902
A ticket to my dick? Yes.

>>61966435
HTML and CSS aren't even programming languages. Start with C. Haskell is good too. Lisp is a must.

>>61966359
Javascript has no real alternatives because browsers only work with Javascript.
PHP can be replaced with pretty much any scripting language, including ones that existed before PHP did. It only took off because PHP makes it easy to do things in a very hacky and unsafe manner.

python for SCIENCE ?

>>61966440
>Lisp is a must.
By that you mean Scheme, right anon?

>>61962345
>You can write android apps in C++ just as well and the run better
only now your project depends upon the platform. for every architecture you need to have a different compiled binary
when you use java, at least dalvik is platform independant

>>61966483
We don't talk about C++ommon lisp

>>61966440
>HTML and CSS aren't even programming languages
well, technically they are. they are both an interpreted language. But granted, they are pretty low-tier

File: indescribable sorrow.jpg (20KB, 500x224px) Image search: [Google]

20KB, 500x224px

>>61966547
>C++ommon lisp
That's a low blow, anon.

>>61966556
nvm i guess they are considered markup languages

>>61966359
yup. most of javascipt is shit and that image perfectly illustrates that

>pro
>perl php

lolk

>>61966556
>well, technically they are. they are both an interpreted language.
They're markup languages. Programming languages are different.

>php
Loving every laugh lad

>>61960351
>Poo
Uh, what?

>>61965305

python is perl but not shit

>>61966387
This. Dynamic typing is good when it adds more than hazards.

>>61963366
The joke is that no-one on /g/ knows anything about programming.

>>61966440
>Lisp is a must
SICP, the little schemer, then Land of Lisp?

>>61963366
I started out in VB, but after a month or so, I went to C#, and stayed there.

I mostly use python on linux and windows.

>>61964649
If this is actually true, what the hell are you doing on 4chan?

>>61967675
bump

OP here, this pic is from 2009. I posted it to know if something changed.

>Employed productive person tier
Scala, VB, C#, PHP
>Basement hacker / fizzbuzz programmer tier
Python, Ruby, Perl, Lisp, Haskell
>50 year old embedded device programmer tier
C, ASM

>>61964304
DIE MOTHERFUCKER DIE MOTHERFUCKER DIE

>>61960351
Switch python for Perl and you are gold

Why is this thread revolving around Python and why does every single /g/aylord have an opinion about it?

You can't all be somehow experienced in it and yet dissagree about everything regarding it.

>>61968948
How about R? ;___;

>>61961567
python's becoming pretty popular as a general server side scripting language. much nicer than using shell scripts

>>61960351
>professional tier
>no cobol
>no java
yea i know who doesn't have a job

>>61969145
I disagree with you on this one

>no groovy
nice try pajeet

>>61964472
Somebody with a job and not a fucking NEET. Like me.

>>61960351
Whats the one next to Lua?

>>61969874
Working with COBOL will get you a job, but you'll feel about as fulfilled as a NEET.

File: truth.jpg (206KB, 800x624px) Image search: [Google]

206KB, 800x624px

>>61960351
>haskell, clisp, ocaml
experimental language design, artificial intelligence, natural language processing
>C, python, perl
speed, exploitation, ubiquity, programmer efficiency
>go, ruby, erlang, elixir
concurrency, distributed networking, parallel computing
>php, clojure, lua
useful, fun, easy
>java, obj-c, .net etc.
mobile apps, proprietary software, you are a cog in the machine

File: cobol (1).jpg (8KB, 200x209px) Image search: [Google]

8KB, 200x209px

Money in the Bank tier

>>61960351
python and C are unironically the languages i'm best at, and i'm learning assembly right now to get a better understanding of how C interacts with linux. are you me?

File: 45jkb35998345vv384598b.jpg (51KB, 600x598px) Image search: [Google]

51KB, 600x598px

>>61960506
this is the absolute truth.

Java, C#, and JS are far and fucking away the most employable and highest paying languages right now. anyone who thinks otherwise has a major disconnect with reality

>>61960670
> Go
the one compiled language loved by all brainlets

>>61971218
>highest paying languages

wew, the first two of these languages are literally designed to be used by outsourced pajeet labor and the latter is only liked by clueless hipsters that will happily work for abusive and underpaying companies as long as they get to pretend to be "code artisans"

you may as well do COBOL and get paid adequately to deal with a shitty language, or man the fuck up and do embedded/system development in C

u would think a language name "Hackell" would be in hacker tier, no ?

>>61971546
are you trying to spell haskell

Are Java and C# hated here because they are two of the most popular or is it because of selfhating web devs or both?

>>61961479
Found the brainlet who couldn't into malloc or overflow checking

>>61971744
Java's hated because it's designed for idiots.
C# is hated because it's Java but with extra shit heaped on and bound to Microsoft.

>>61963835
Keep up the good work, Rajesh.
4 rupees have been deposited into your account.

very accurate post OP

File: 1474418135935.jpg (53KB, 512x384px) Image search: [Google]

53KB, 512x384px

>>61971098
4/10

>>61960351
most of those languages are a dialect of the same language anyways
makes no difference which you use

>>61971098
C++ is actually a very powerful language with amazing features, but most people are shit at it.
Move C++ to pro tier and your list is pretty much perfect. Add Scheme to god tier, too.

>>61971844
scheme is a better language than clisp but it doesn't have any fast implementations that aren't proprietary.

>>61971887
MIT Scheme is fine.

>>61971887
How is Scheme better than Common Lisp? Isn't it an essentially academic language, used for learning purposes?

Ada is maximum comf. All the control of C with no unintended side effects, and is readable to boot. It's actually extremely hard to fuck up in Ada, every thing is meticulous, I love it. The language for autists

>>61971932
it's only used for learning because it's very simple

>>61971932
common lisp is bloated by lisp standards

>>61960351
where is js :^)

>>61971887
Scheme has a lot less historical cruft than CL, but it's largely an academic tool. A proper CL implementation will give you everything you need to make useful software (sans text editor/IDE obvs).
CL's macro system is also legendary.

>>61971115
ok if I learn cobol what job will that land me

File: Swift_logo.svg.png (55KB, 1138x1024px) Image search: [Google]

55KB, 1138x1024px

Master Race

>>61967588
What makes Python any less "shit" than Perl?

>>61960351
Pretty accurate.

>>61972069
Six figures a year of subtle psychological torture.

>>61960670
Fuck off

>>61972062
>sans text editor/IDE obvs
actually SLIME + Emacs is one of the best IDEs ever made

>>61972153
Emacs is bloated though.

>>61972170
it's an operating system. not bloated by operating system standards

>>61966405
>You don't need JS.
Show me the web tooling, nigger.

>>61963850
there are plenty of languages with which you can easily refactor large codebases. c# is not exceptional here

>>61972188
If emacs could be made as lightweight as vim easily I'd use it, but I really don't need the unnecessary shit.
If its email client, browser and all were actually really good then fine, but there are better, individual alternatives.

>>61966359
haskell on the backend and elm on the frontend

>>61972153
Sure, but SLIME is meant to work with a variety of different implementations.
I'm not sure why you wouldn't use SBCL though. It's almost baffling how fast it is these days.

>>61972170
It was bloated 30 years ago, these days it feels featherweight on a modern computer.

>>61972062
>it's largely an academic tool
Isn't the basic principle of any LISP to be completely extensible? Isn't Scheme as powerful as you want it to be?
>>61972113
Is COBOL even used anymore outside of legacy systems maintenance? C++ seems to have become the standard in finance.

>>61972245
>It was bloated 30 years ago
It has hundreds of unnecessary features and is much heavier than vim. I see no reason to use emacs for text editing outside of elisp.

>>61972188
>what is inner platform syndrome

>>61972249
>what is MUMPS
>besides an invitation to unmaintainability

>>61972229
is there really a better email client than mu4e?

>>61972268
what's wrong with an inner platform??

>>61972295
The fact that you can't kill it when it outlives its means and becomes hipster-tier.
t.webdev

>>61972268
>>>what is MUMPS
A viral disease?
Really though what is it, I can find one git repo with like five pull requests

Where the fuck is octave?

>>61972335
I'd rather have "inner platform syndrome" than use a program other than a web browser that retards can mutilate with Javascript.

>>61972374
It's a language/database that used to be pretty popular in finance. One modern implementation is GT.M. The comfy part is the built-in object persistence system, reminiscent of the Windows registry or Perl's tied hashes but nested. Otherwise it's basically BASIC.

>>61960351
>Lisp not in hacker tier

>>61972262
Emacs only loads what it needs at a given moment, and Vim's source has become pretty fucking bloated too. With no other plugins loaded, vanilla Emacs + Evil uses about as much memory as vanilla Vim.

>>61972745
why would you use lisp for hacking?

>>61966359
>two books on ES5

Some memes don't age so well..

>>61972774
>With no other plugins loaded
That's not really a good basis for comparison. One should compare a customized vim and a similarly customized emacs, nobody uses these programs ootb.
What about spacemacs though?

Actually all professional languages are shit-tier:

C, C++, Java, C#, php, python, Javascript.

The others are hipster memes, used by niche firms.

Html and css are not programming languages.

Now gtfo with your memes

>>61960351
>Lua
>Enthusiast Tier
i'm_ok_with_this.jpg

>>61972812
> not running ES6 directly on your users' browsers

>>61972836
>That's not really a good basis for comparison. One should compare a customized vim and a similarly customized emacs, nobody uses these programs ootb.
I agree, but we were talking about bloat in the editors themselves, and I can't see a reason Vimscript or Python or, god forbid, Ruby would be less bloated than Elisp, especially when the latter is compiled into bytecode for installed packages.
>What about spacemacs though?
Sure, if you like. It's still just Emacs. You'll be able to use all of the neat shit Emacs is desirable for.

>>61961872
it' Lua not LUA.
this was the reason i got into programming, but when i learned Java i truly learned to love Lua for what it is. Clean.

>>61972908
I mentioned spacemacs because it's a version of emacs that can be used out of the box with little to no tinkering with your init file.
I don't know any vim equivalents, but it's common to have spacemacs take more than two seconds to load (I know there's emacs daemon, but that's not the point) while vim is blazingly fast even with file searching/folder organizing plugins, gdb extensions and all that shit.

>>61972945
If you don't want to fuck with configs I'd definitely consider it.
And Emacs is a little slow to start, since it's written in an interpreted language. It's meant to be fast after it's been loaded.

>>61972945
>>61972981
Actually, two seconds doesn't sound right at all. My Emacs loads several nontrivial packages every time and it only takes a split second to load up. A brand new plain install is instant.

>>61972981
I thought emacs' core was written in C?
>fast after it's been loaded
I see. So is vim though.
>>61973034
I installed spacemacs with Helm and the default (non lightweight) config and it took around two seconds to start up on GUI, maybe a little bit less. It's not a problem with my own machine, it took that time to load all packages.

>>61971098
This one is just as bad if not worse

>>61960396
That 's why it's called a /g/ ranking, it's not an actual good ranking.

>>61971098
Is OCaml good? Why would you use it instead of either Haskell or a Lisp?

>>61960351
>python
>hacker tier
?????
ruby IS python w/o its shitty spacing

>>61973058
>I thought emacs' core was written in C?
Yes, but most of the editor itself is written in Emacs Lisp. The C part is essentially an implementation of the language.
>I installed spacemacs with Helm and the default (non lightweight) config and it took around two seconds to start up on GUI, maybe a little bit less. It's not a problem with my own machine, it took that time to load all packages.
Jesus. Was this every time or just the first time? I don't use it so I wouldn't know.

>>61973213
I launched it three or four times before uninstalling it, but it happened every time. I might try again and try to pinpoint the source of the problem, if that's an unusual occurrence.
I dislike bloat (in the literal sense, not /g/ sense) so that really put me off and I — perhaps stupidly — figured that it must be the same for vanilla emacs.

>>61973213
Wasn't there a project to rewrite emacs in either scheme or CL at some point? That would be great, elisp is much better than vimscript but still kinda shit, especially compared to other lisps.

>>61973170
Ruby is more Perl than Python

File: gambas2-00.jpg (148KB, 1023x721px) Image search: [Google]

148KB, 1023x721px

>>61960406
>>61960351
Visual Basic is a mediocre programming language, but a good tool for making applications. With Gambas, AKA libre Visual Basic for the 21st century, you can make graphical applications for GNU/Linux easier and faster than with pretty much anything else. As a bonus, Gambas code runs faster than Python or Ruby because of the static typing.

File: fakeandgay.jpg (29KB, 320x320px) Image search: [Google]

29KB, 320x320px

>>61960351
> no #!/bin/sh

>>61973252
I just tried it in a separate folder and yeah, this does seem pretty heavy.
Personally I'd suggest just plain Emacs with Evil and maybe a color scheme. I can give you a sensible default init if you like, I've used the same short one since forever.

>>61973267
I think so, but ELisp led to "good enough" syndrome. Lisp is like pizza, even when it's shit, it's still pretty good.

>>61973603
>pretty heavy.
"2 second startup time" heavy? There's an option for a lightweight install I think, not sure what it's worth. Helm is good so I don't know if replacing it with Ivy is a good idea.
>plain Emacs with Evil and maybe a color scheme
I'd appreciate it if you could post your init, that'd be cool.
Do you find that it's enough for all your needs?
Do you use any packages for stuff like quick navigation within files and between files, autocompletion, refactoring, warnings, debugging or source control?

>>61972779
Lisp has hacking written all over it.

>>61973703
He's talking about security hacking, not old school unix "hacking".

>>61973576
>sh
Is a deprecated format only around for ultra-minimal ricers and compatibility for older systems.

Bash does everything SH does and then your mother's weight some.

WHICH LANGUAGE SHOULD I LEARN THEN
I WANT TO BECOME A GOOD PROGRAMMER WITH A GOOD JOB,WHICH LANGUAGE SHOULD I CHOSE?C++?PYTHON?JAVA?
WHICH ONE IS THE LUCKY POT

>>61960351
((((((lisp)))))) at anything other than hacker tier... are you on drugs?

>>61973761
Read K&R, it's a meme but it's a good meme.
After that learn C++ and Python if you want a job.

>>61973726
I wrote an entire C&C server in common lisp. Writing something like this in Python using 1000 dependencies doesn't make you any better than a script kid.

where should i get started

i have some basics of html and css but want to start heading in a different direction

>>61973761
Try them all like you would when distro hopping and stick with the ones you like the most.

You can make boatloads of cash with pretty much any language (even scratch), but not if you hate your fucking job because you decided to pick it by looking at entry glassdoor salaries.

>>61973823
Reinventing the wheel is stupid for common tasks.
>>61973827
K&R then SICP, as another anon said they're memes but they're genuinely good. SICP isn't mandatory, it'll teach you a lot about theory but if you're not interested in actual computer science just read K&R

>>61973827
If you wanna get closer to the hardware and have less "magic":
>C, Assembley

If you want to continue webdev and actually program in a language:
>JS, PHP

There are others depending on where you wanna go.

What's the best book to learn x86 ASM?
I heard good things about Hacking:the art of exploitation, but isn't it too focused on security?

File: 1502413399233.jpg (498KB, 1280x1498px) Image search: [Google]

498KB, 1280x1498px

>>61973778
I heard python is piss easy and C++ is totally on my hit list
I want mostly to get onto game development,so I know a bit of java but since I began anything code related on code academy,I accidentally know a bit of HTML too
>>61973830
I don't find any other job really as fun as looking at computer screens and typing,but I mean ALL jobs are mostly made to consume your soul anyways,so why not?

>>61973875
Python is easy as shit if you know C and C++.
>game dev
Definitely learn C++ and git gud at it. C++ Primer is a good start, read the /g/ wiki for more recs
Codecademy is shit by the way

>>61973875
>I don't find any other job really as fun as looking at computer screens and typing,but I mean ALL jobs are mostly made to consume your soul anyways,so why not?
Not me, senpai. I'm working red team as a cybersec and I'm loving every minute of it. Take my work home too.

Biggest mistake I see if people going into jobs they don't like and "toughing it out" because they think it's like that everywhere. Pro-tip: It's not. There are people that love their jobs and you just gotta not settle for trash.

>>61973911
You're a pentester?
What's your skill set and how did you get into it?

>>61973853

i don't know, i work in webdev right now and its kinda meh to me

>>61973911
I just don't find any other job as simple and clean as programming,it's something I'm confortable into and since I hate manual labor,I'm completely fine with having a machine do all the work for me as long as I teach it
anyways I barely know anything about truly working which means I'm going to get fucked hard by pajeets in the end,but that's life and being a NEET if everything fails is fine by me.(though I would prefer not to)

>>61973847
Reinventing the wheel makes you grow as a programmer and it gives the confidence of knowing what you are actually doing.

>>61973948
It's good as a learning process of course.
But actually doing it for projects is stupid. As long as you know what you're working with you don't have to rewrite every single library just because. That's impossible for any large project anyway.

>>61973170
ruby is a dead language

>>61973690
>"2 second startup time" heavy? There's an option for a lightweight install I think, not sure what it's worth. Helm is good so I don't know if replacing it with Ivy is a good idea.
Looks like it'd be worth trying since Emacs already manages packages, so all of the extras beyond spacemacs-base are redundant.
>I'd appreciate it if you could post your init, that'd be cool.
I added some comments for clarity: https://pastebin.com/QZtSVbZV
Emacs automatically makes any necessary files or directories.
>Do you find that it's enough for all your needs?
Yep. Some tools like Org-mode simply can't be found anywhere else.
>Do you use any packages for stuff like quick navigation within files and between files, autocompletion, refactoring, warnings, debugging or source control?
I use neotree for file navigation and company-mode for autocompletion. Projectile and Flycheck are ideal for IDE-ish features and damn near every language ever made has an Emacs mode for specific stuff like refactoring and interactive development.
Emacs already comes with built in VC support, but Magit is better for Git.

>>61964472
a working programmer, probably.

>>61974018
That's really helpful man, thanks a bunch.

>>61973921
I'm a contractor for the state.
I started at 18 with only a bit of experience with Python and Fedora. Now, I do most of my stuff in Python, C, and ASM.
I've got the pick of the litter for jobs, but I love working with teams to discover new, or utilize withheld, exploits to build malware around and "ship it."
Plebbit is trash for the most part, but /netsec /reverseengineering and etc. are a good place to start. Most of this shit is self-taught. Wargames are a must.
>>61973947
I feel that, just don't get stuck in the mindset that your current position is the only one. There's a lot of branches out there that aren't known until you start looking for them. If you can think it, there's usually a branch that perfectly matches it.

I'm a nobody. Should I learn Python, Javascript, and Ruby?

There is literally nothing wrong or 'hipster' about ruby

>>61973926
Try out C and Python. They're on two sides of the spectrum and they'll help you figure out where to narrow in.

>>61960351
How do you even work with java?
Every time I try to program in java I feel like I'm trying to trick the computer into doing what I want since I have no control over my memory and it's gay and I hate it wtf.

> sees thread
> immediately saves chart to guide my learning choices later
> reads replies
> deletes chart

>>61974096
Between the three, Python is likely to be the most useful without teaching you how to make software like an idiot.

>>61974195
Your path won't be straightforward. It's not use following a strict guide.

Choose a starting point and let it lead you where it leads you.

>>61960351
>P oo
>Poo

>>61974081
Is Perl still used in security or has it been replaced by Python?
What resources did you use to learn ASM?

>>61974226
I've been on and off learning C++ on my own from a guide on the Internet but I'm too lazy to take any initiative or organize myself. I work better in a systematic school environment so I have to wait til I can actually go to college to learn shit. For now it's science and technical/applied math for me.

>>61961221
this
Python is a language of our TIME

>>61974244
Perl still has a place, but it's being phased out for Python and Ruby.
http://wiki.osdev.org/Assembly (the whole site is good too) and a micro-controller with its reference sheet. 8-bit is a lot easier and a good place to start. If you feel like it's too easy, then jump up to 64-bit.
>>61974247
Good luck.
>I work better in a systematic school environment so I have to wait til I can actually go to college to learn shit. For now it's science and technical/applied math for me.
You in HS/working?

File: 20090701122032.jpg (42KB, 450x370px) Image search: [Google]

42KB, 450x370px

Say something nice about Scala-tan

>>61974369

makes java bearable

>>61974368
Yeah I'm in Highschool but on break atm. I can never focus on studying something on my own as I always drift off into something to do with communications (YouTube, forums, social media, etc.) I get bored quite easily when I'm not actually doing something productive and just getting a lecture about the history of C++ and all the other shit I should know before starting to do anything.

>>61974471
Ayy you sound just like me. I fucking hate having to read a bunch of shit before I can start and it throws me off. I usually just go head first starting projects, and wing it with stack exchange + friends.
But I've got ADHD, so I've built my life around that and my productivity is better than my peers.

File: abcl.png (21KB, 230x284px) Image search: [Google]

21KB, 230x284px

>>61974400
>java
>bearable
That's what ABCL is for, literally

>>61974537
Give me ADHD management tips

No drugs allowed

>>61960351
Uh, maybe move Python to hipster tier.

>>61974108
White space delimiting

>>61972075
Readability for one

>>61962227
and now there is a python-to-Go translator...
https://github.com/google/grumpy

for writing quick stuff, python is the best, though

>>61974958
CBT: Keep a planner with all your shit in it. I used TickTick for my browser and phone to keep all of my appointments and have a checklist of daily things I needed to do (workout, finish x, etc.).

Make sure you have other things to do everyday. Getting bored and having only one thing to do is a gateway to watching YouTube all day. If you get bored with one thing, you can start working on the other thing, and when you get bored with that one you work on another. Keep cycling and keep yourself busy.

Don't force yourself too much. There are things I'll never be able to focus on so I stay away from those things/automate them. If you find yourself having to force yourself through most of the day, make changes. I fucking hated sitting hours in lectures doing jack shit, so I forced myself through online classes to get my associates and then went off to get a job by networking.

Most of my coping skills are pretty second nature now, so I'm sure I'm missing a lot, but experimenting with new shit is always good.

Lifestyle: No masturbating. Prolactin is terrible for dopamine and thus terrible for anyone already hard of focusing. Jacking off usually gets me into ultra-neet mode where I stay at home and play video games all day so I don't do it anymore.

Workout every day. I have a strict workout plan (2 hours hypertrophy routine everday) and it's been a huge help in keeping my "train" on track. I get derailed less.

Keto. A lot of benefits. Modulates energy, so less super highs and super lows.

Supps (all OTC "drugs"): One a day vitamin to cover bases + calorie tracker to make sure I'm getting all my micros and good macros. Getting enough l-phenyalanine, l-tyrosine, and iron is important to make sure there's enough building blocks for dopamine and assorted.

(cont.)

>>61960351
> php
> professional tier

pick one

>>61975178
>Today, PHP is used by more than 80% of all the websites whose server-side programming language we know.

Yeah, no professionals us it.

>>61975159
>>61974958
(cont.)
Sleep's vital too. Make sure you're getting good quality sleep and not waking up tired as fuck. People with ADHD are at risk for restless legs and that really fucks up sleep. If you're unsure or if you fidget a lot during the day, take some velvet bean before bead (enough to contain 100mg of L-DOPA, the conversion is on the label) and see how well you sleep. If you sleep better, you likely got it.

Back to diet, ADHD's got some crossovers with celiacs and other digestive disorders. I'd research around and look at what you can find that applies to you. Malabsorption will fuck you up with anemia, and thus a lack of iron co-factor for l-tyrosine conversion to l-dopa. And thus restless legs and more ADHD.

Plebbit has an ADHD sub that's actually one of the best on mental health. There's a lot of good coping skills on there that I've learned.

If I'm having a shit day and I know I won't be able to concentrate, usually strong coffee helps. I get tripped up when I forget how much of a lifesaver coffee can be.

Just some shit off the top of my head.

>hurr durr >muh language wars
why is this board so shit?

>>61975159
This is really helpful, I'm not the one who asked for the advice but I'm the chick that's in highschool from earlier. I imagine I have ADD or ADHD due to obvious symptoms (not being able to focus on anything, not being able to stand still for too long, etc.) so I'm going to try these out. Thanks.

>>61975251
Good luck.

How about PowerShell? Granted, it's more of a scripting language, but how does /g/ rate it?

>>61975223
Ok kid. As an application architect in php, I probably make more than you ever will.

>>61960396
Language not the runtime environment

>>61971307
>wew
>pajeet
>hipsters
>code artisans
Nicely memed.

>>61972249
nope
but big biz pays big bucks to autists untangling the Cobol mess left by the last 3 generations so they don't have to pay even bigger bucks to re-implement something that still works with no understanding of how it works.

>Hipster tier
doesn't include go or rust

>>61960351
my schooling is f orcing me to learn the most pajeet language, java.
I don't want this. I am not a pajeet. Please help

>>61975159
>>61975245
Thanks anon. I've been using a planner for a while and it helps but I'll look into velvet bean. I have pretty bad restless leg syndrome but I just let it be

>>61960351
>tfw I'm a hacker/professional/enthusiast/hipster
feelsconfusingman.jpg

>>61960351
i can confirm Python is professional tier. i hate it. using it is like herding cats, the community is garbage, and the developers are garbage. i would much rather stick to the wonderful C++ where i can do the same thing faster - the extra code i have to write is mostly variable types (though auto alleviates a bit of that) but the code runs so much faster and i have a compiler to catch errors early, not 10 minutes into a computation. not only that, it looks "Pythonic" as well with none of the tradeoffs.

>>61964534
>C++ is a toy language
your lack of knowledge about places that use C++ does not make it a toy language or unpopular, it makes you an idiot. C++ is used for many, many things. if you want to talk about the quality of most C++ code, well...

>>61973886
>Python is easy as shit if you know C and C++.
false, Python is a fucking nightmare

>>61975297
Amazing Pipeline, shit works as you would expect. 10/10

File: 3141_cobol.jpg (11KB, 417x288px) Image search: [Google]

11KB, 417x288px

Pic related is for serious programmers who want to make Loadsamoney

>>61961908
Thats because no one gives a fuck about rust.

>>61960351
>No HolyC

>>61965920
> implying Nvidia can't do both

>>61976269
>no one gives a fuck about rust
the real absolute truth

>god tier
C, Haskell, ASM
>professional tier
Java(Combined with all those shits like JSP, Spring and Hibernate),C#, Python, little bit of Perl
>Enthusiast tier
C++, Webshit languages
>Hipster tier
Scala, Ruby
>Shit tier
Dead languages
>/g/ tier
lisp

>>61977186
Move C to /g/ tier
Move ASM to "Dead languages" tier
Move Haskell to Hipster tier

Leave god-tier empty because the final red-pill is that there is no god-tier language.

>>61963503
"MAC" too, if they're talking about Apple

>>61977239
>Move ASM to "Dead languages" tier
Just curious, do you do web development?

>>61962227
That doesn't sound like the type of application that python would be well suited for in the first place. I feel like he was pushed into using python due to his reputation, and figured he could get away with it because 'Who knows it better than the guy who made it?'

>>61977186
lisp needs to be god tier

what's wrong with these people?
all languages are amazing and solve diferent paradigms, but i have to say: low level languages like C/C++ are my favorites, lisp.. why not? parenthesis are fun!

What about Swift and Kotlin?