Is college a meme /g/? I see it discussed on here sometimes,

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>>61755516
It must fucking suck to live in a country where you have to pay for college huh

>>61755516
Think of college as a place where you pay to be trained to do a six-figure job.
Getting the six-figure job is your problem.
If you can't land the job then why did you pay for the course.

>>61755516

what's the point of college? just read the damn cs books

>>61755516
>go for stem
>have to take humanities as a requirement
>have to sit though history classes and music classes
>have to pay for it all
>wind up spending more time trying to cram art history and parts of a band than you actually spend learning math
>end up neglecting your math classes because of all of the extra shit you have to take AND pass because of muh gpa
>instead of learning my maths, I spend more time learning how to check my privilege and be an ally to the pocs in my english class
yea, its pretty memeatic

>>61755862
keep paying 19% sales tax hans

>>61756135

I am doing a degree in medical tech and the fucking history classes make me want to die. There is just so much useless, time-sink shit they make you do for college. A four year degree has maybe one year worth of actual education.

>>61756109
several reasons to go to college:
- networking
- access to technology that one wouldn't otherwise be able to access cheaply / easily
- structure / organization
- most companies require a degree

Fuck college. It's a damn joke anymore. The whole point of it is to land a better job. But if jobs are hard to get and the market is flooded with people with college degrees then all your doing is wasting your time/money for nothing. All you end up with is a ton of debt to pay off (which will take you till your mid 30s at least) plus having to take a bunch of bullshit classes that have little to nothing to do with the career you want. I know a dude who paid over 25K for the whole ITT online CS degree program, two years later I still work alongside him, he ain't gone anywhere, and trust me what we both do don't got a thing to do with IT (Printshop workers)

>>61756192
Just print dollars. Everybody will buy it. For now. :^)

>>61756275
This dude could've moved on and upward within the current company, there's been many IT jobs open up within the last year. I've applied for a few, been approved for them to (I've got nothing but some college & Certs). Reason I'm still where I am is cause those jobs already got people "marked" to fill them. Most of our IT has been outsourced so any IT jobs still under company control are hard to land.

Depends. as the CS/IT fields starts to mature a bit more it's becoming more and more important to have a degree. In the past it was a lot less necessary but those days, in my opinion, are starting to become numbered. Getting past helpdesk in IT without some sort of relevant degree is a lot more difficult these days. As for CS with a bit of legwork you could probably get a generic CS programming job at a smaller company with a good portfolio but it's still going to be harder to get past HR without that degree compared to someone with one (especially at larger companies).

I would say it's still not completely necessary, but at the moment upward mobility is significantly more difficult without a degree.

>>61756275
>ITT online CS degree program

lol

>>61755516
>muh longterm entitlement
Most it shithole is full of insecure beta scum.

>>61756275
>Fuck college. It's a damn joke anymore. The whole point of it is to land a better job.
It's actually not. It's meant to make you a well-rounded human being. You were looking for "vocational school."

>>61756344
God, I'd gladly take Helpdesk/Support over the shit I'm in right now, It'd pay me more to. (the Printshop guy again). My job is numbered, our people are leaving, one at a time, soon no one will be there and the work just won't be getting done. They (upper management) just won't hire replacements. I'll still have a job, they'll just move those who are left somewhere else when they eventually shut the shithole down.

>>61756220
My stupid ass took a History of Islamic Civilization. I'm a humanities major because I want to be a teacher, but that was easily the worst class I have taken. I have no idea how History majors do it.

>>61756416
All I ever wanted to do IT wise is help the average user/setup/configure hardware, stuff like that. Not be a Sys/Net Admin for the whole company. I'm not greedy, I just want to do my job, be good at it, and after so many years retire. I don't thank that's to much to want.

>>61755516
career advice is not technology discussion
>>>/biz/
>>>/adv/
>>>/kys/

College was a mistake.
Every single day only served to repeatedly confirm to me that the vast majority of people are awful and terribly unhelpably retarded.
Retrospectively, if you have to go, the only degree worth getting is pure math.
Unless you know exactly what you want and have something lined up after that absolutely requires it of you and are determined to waste no time and get it behind you as soon as possible, don't go.
Everything it offers (except maybe cultural indoctrination) you can get better elsewhere for free and without all the awfulness.

>be me
>go to state school
>degree in electrical engineering
>federal grant pays for everything
>take out student loans every semester so I can live the NEET lifestyle
>~$10k in debt after graduating
>I already have a job that will transition me to full time once I get my degree

I made the right choice I think

>>61755516
yea,, I didn't go their and am ok
school is for faggots

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>tfw 34 ACT
>tfw presidential scholarship
>tfw $3k loan, but autismbux makes it zero
I'm gonna make it guys

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>>61756787

>34

try 36 pal

>>61755516
Well in my country it's free so it's pretty much always worth it. However, even here, not sure if CS degree is the way to go. It's not required by most employers. It's like a foreign language, if you have a degree they assume you know it and if you don't you have to prove it. But you have to prove it even with degree. So that.
What I did is study law at college and learn programming on the side.

>>61756220
I know that feel.
The history class is a requirement for the school Im transferring too and its the same class so I went ahead and suffered through it.
>mfw the professor dedicated a month talking about "the tyranny of the husband" and a week going on about how evil white people are for slavery
didnt even mention that every race had slaves, blacks invented slavery, and whites are the only race to stand up and end slavery..

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>>61756411
> unironically shilling for the merits of a liberal arts education
> on /g/
> in 2017
> yfw

>>61755516
I took 77 credit hours at a local community college and transferred to uni. Got my shitty filler classes out of the way while being paid for it (this college was literally dirt cheap) and now I'm headed to uni to finish a BS in CS. Still about to take $60k in debt because of it.

Fuck the US and their shitty schooling system. Why should I have to accept this much fucking debt with shit done ahead of time?

>>61756885
you sound like you'd be fun at parties
>if you ever got invited to one

>>61755516
yes its a meme.

internet resources are 1000x better than anything college gives you now, especially for anything related to programming.

>Study English pedagogy
>Get state scolarship
>Go to private university
>0 debts
>working part-time at small start-up
>they paid for certifications
>work full-time at a school
>get paid shitloads because language certifications
>get offered web developer position

Never needed a comp science degree, but I might get one just in case
Life is good.

>>61756890
>I learned Python online at Code Academy, please spend 5 hours of your engineer's time giving me an interview

>>61756896
It's saturday night and we're both posting on /g/. You can't play that hand tonight, friend, we're both in the same boat.

I got a BS in Finance, but I've been learning C and C# in my spare time and have gotten really proficient at it. Could I just go into programming even though I don't have the degree? Is this going to get in the way of future job opportunities? Or will they see that I am college educated and have experience in programming is enough?

>>61756192
>mfw dad's technically disabled and our household pays like no fucking tax

I'd honestly still wish he never had that stroke and lost half his vision, but there's a sliver lining. """Free""" college is great in my opinion!

>>61756233
this is all very well and dandy, but computers aren't some expensive thing you don't have access to like medical facilities, chemistry labs or law libraries.
A literal street shitter can scrap together enough to buy a laptop and learn to program and do the same work as you for a fraction of the cost.
Why do you need a degree to do this?

>>61757167
To get a fucking job you idiot.

>>61757240
Can you imagine taking on $75,000 in debt just so you can get a little piece of paper just so employers won't autotrash your resume?

You americans are so fucked.

>>61757269
That piece of paper pays for itself in the first year. Europoors will be forever stuck with shit pay.

>>61756344
kek but how do you initially build that portfolio?

>>61757308
Do you intend to incur 0 expenses your first year?
Also what makes you think you will get a 70k starting job your first year?

>>61757350
I got a 200k starting job in my first year.

>>61757359
sure you did

>>61756743
Are you me? Fed grants are a fucking godsend. FUCK TAXPAYING KEKS.

>>61756942
kek't

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>>61757375
>Not knowing you live in a poor country

>>61757430
keep going

>>61757359
>lying on a Myanmar quilt knitting forum
For what purpose?

>>61755516
It took me a while to understand burger colleges. But after seeing enough foreign students at my university I can say that (at least in ee) college degrees are worthless and 'higher' burger education is trash.
Dont plan on leaving your shit country when you all you got is a college degree.

>>61755516
Define meme, I don't understand your stupid teenager lingo. I guess that you're talking about benefits of the education in a tech university.

Stanford and MIT are good places to start if you're going to do something more serious than webdev and shitposting on 4chan about botnets and how you installed Arch your Apple devices.

The universities give a required minimum of subjects which are the must for an engineer, they give the hi quality knowledge and make sure that you have grasped those concepts and ideas.

You can learn all of this from books and online lectures but no one can guide you or give good advises and no one can check whether you fully understood what you'd learned.

>>61755516
college is only a meme if you sit in your dorm shitposting all day. If you actually do well in classes, get close to professors, and network with people, you'll get way more than your money's worth, and you get a lot of opportunity you can't get without going.

If you just want to learn how to program, and be content as a contractor that makes websites for small businesses, skip the college.

>>61755516
Of all the classes I took in college, I felt I learned the most in Introduction to Python and Intro to Java which I took on a whim since I entered with 30+ credits

>>61757269
they autotrash the resume because self taught coders always make big mistakes, and have a hard time actually adhering to company coding conventions. By self teaching you basically have to work on your own from that point forward, otherwise you might get told how bad you are.

>>61757474
>MUH DEGREEEEEEEEEEEE

Sorry I don't talk to CS cunts.

>>61757460
97 credit hours here and I'm still only 63% done with my degree. Switching majors really fucked me up...

>>61757478
I'm not retarded enough to do CS, I'm CE because you actually learn how the shit works, and get to actually use the university's expensive engineering equipment while you write programs.
Plus in CE they focus much more on optimization.

>>61755516
I got laid from an assembly class so yeah I'd say it was worth it

>>61757553
At this point CS is pretty much a meme. Every wannabe 1337 haxor and their mom is going into CS. One of the many reasons I'm a CIS major.

>>61757489
i never should have bothered with CS
i dropped out after I failed alg II twice, taught myself programming and then came back and passed alg II but now I found out a full BS in CS degree would require me to take...
>plane geometry (prereq)
>trig (prereq)
>calc i
>calc ii
>physics
>phsyics 2

I just wanna drop out again and write a game entirely in C

>>61757587
you don't fucking know geometry or trig and expect to be able to write competent computer graphics code? Jesus christ, everything up to calc 2 isn't even hard.

>>61757608
What are you so angry for?

Is there any point in going to college if its not a STEM degree?

>>61756743
>NEET
>in school
Shut the fuck up, please.

>>61757587
you should drop out of life, lazy fucker.

>>61755516
Yeah honestly the most BASED and jew free career is to be a servant for jewish oligarchs desu

education is fucking stupid and useless nigga

>>61756411
>well-rounded

More like normalised.

information and how it's dealt with has revolutionized completely in the last 20-30 years and institutions are just now realizing they have to catch up

do you need college to learn to do a fucking job well? no, you can learn all that shit on the internet

however your options for proving your proficiency are slim and inconsistent outside of that stupid fucking piece of paper you get at the end of it, and besides they can be really great for networking and starting a solid base for a career

so there you go

>>61758188
It really depends on the person now.
An education wont make a retard smart, education is more directed towards getting you on your feet easier and have a easier chance at scoring a decent job.

The only thing it does is make your chances of survival easier, its not meant to do everything for you.

>>61756275
You write like a fucking nigger

>>61758227
I agree it's suppose to give you skills. For example, you need to be trained to become an engineer.

If you are paying for college, you do not belong there.

>>61755516
It's not, if you live in an actual country that doesn't assrape you financially,

As always, the US is a complete failure.

>>61756192
I'd rather pay 19% sales tax, if that means that I and my kids get free education and free healthcare and I don't have to worry about my pension, ever.

>>61758550
Says the poorfag.
I bet your parents both work at a McDonalds.

idk seems like it
I just started uni

I did a vocational education before and have an Advanced diploma in IT Networking.

Never used it for anything tho because im stupid and didn't apply for any jobs so in some ways its out of date now but i could still get a help desk job.


Doing this programming course the lecturer basically expects you to know how to do everything and passes off all the blame to "You're supposed to be doing independent study" They don't give you any decent resources to look at besides some shit boring text book on Java programming.

Your literally paying $1000 or whatever for the course its a joke if you had to pay upfront you would tell them to get fucked.

>>61755516
>cuckputer nigger cum eating science
Please don't do this to yourself. CS is a dying meme and you'll end up just being a webdev cuck anyways.

>>61758754
You went to TAFE? Now what uni?

There are a lot of people that go to TAFE for advanced diploma then realise it has pretty much no value and the only way someone is getting a job in networking with that is if they have years of experience and CISCO certs.

The problem I have with study at TAFE or Uni is that it's pretty much identical to an online course except in the Bach. of IT, there's one weekly class for each unit. They seem to just pick a random textbook and structure their units around it so they can throw it at the students and hope they know what is required and desirable.

They have to create a system where they can train a variety of different people in something then test them on that something and the end result is a bunch of people who don't fully grasp the concepts of each unit and people who don't have real job skills. I think it's a shame that universities have switched to essentially a job-certificate factory that pumps out students who know a little bit of how to function in various things and know a little bit about whatever industry they apply into. Students have to learn the essential concepts in their own time as if they're secondary to assessment requirements.

Instead, I wish universities focused on the pure science and conceptual aspect of the study so that students graduated with an education in what they were fucking studying. From that position, they can learn job skills and real-life training.

There's also the problem of money. Difficult courses have high dropout rates. You can't have the Above failing or it would be another holocaust!!!

90% of cs graduates end up in web dev/app dev positions aka basic algo course + OOP course and you are pretty much set

90% of classes are useless if you are not an autistic math nerd

>>61756192
In germany the customer does not PAY it, you mongoloid. Learn how 2 tax, nigger.

>>61756192
Imagine living in a country where you don't want to pay taxes because you're afraid they'll be stolen and not actually put into the infrastructure of the country unlike most of European countries.

>>61755516
no high school diploma and no college degree here. work in webdev and make 60k a year but I can't go much higher than this without going to school I've found. hit a ceiling wish had gone to class

>>61759061
Norwegian here, they do though. It's just that unlike the US, VAT is already included into the price.

>>61755516
>going to an American college
Found your first mistake

>>61757651
cuz he's so gudd at did combuduh stuff uuhuhuh

>>61756192
Tax doesn't collect interest

>>61758673
>pay 19% sales tax
>free
>free

>>61756743
How the fuck did you get them to cover that much? All I got was $700.

>>61755516
>boohoo i have so much debt i'm such a victim why won't the government help me :^(

>>61755516
No college is not a meme. Fucking go.

Regardless of whether you get a job out it or not, it will teach you some discipline and open your mind to different schools of thought and will let you network.

>>61756787
>tfw 34 act
>tfw no scholarship
>tfw debt out my ass

Godspeed anon

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>going to an american university

literally just go to a school in canada. there are tons of alternatives that are significantly cheaper, even after you factor in international student fees. the USD is currently quite strong against the CAD too. and everybody speaks english except in quebec and parts of new brunswick.

i reccomend memorial university of newfoundland. they had a tuition freeze in the 70s so tuition hasn't even adjusted to inflation. a full semester costs about 1200 $CAD (950 $USD). it's a budget school and it shows, but the degree you get there is worth exactly as much as a piece of paper from somewhere else.

>>61755516
I know a few people who work in computer science without a degree, but they are an exception to the rule. These guys are EXCEPTIONALLY bright people.

Almost genius like.

The other people I know who work in computer science field without a degree had experience in the military, so they had practical training and working experience with lots of high tech shit.

I earned the GI Bill, so it's free for me.

>>61762677
>tfw I didn't do this and I should have

What's Canada's elite school and how much does it cost?

>>61762677
>thinking a degree from some no-name college in leafland is worth as much as one from MIT

>>61762677
>going to a canadian university

I work at a fortune 500 making over 100k a year without a college degree, most of what I work on isn't taught at colleges though
Low level winapi shit and reverse engineering mostly

>>61762715
From my understanding, there's only one Canadian university that's worth a shit. The University of Toronto.

The rest fucking suck.

>>61762720
So you make half of what college graduates start out with at Google/Facebook/Amazon, only after years of experience?

>>61762698

im not 100% because i went to the one i recommended (memorial). i think maybe waterloo might be considered the "elite school". i recall dalhousie and acadia being considered elite, but i grew up in the maritimes so i didn't know much about western schools.

IMO for a bachelors it's almost completely irrelevant where you go. a bachelor's is the new high school, as they say. it's only for masters and above that the name of the school really matters, and even then probably not that much.

in my personal experience, people who seriously take into account the prestige of the school are often the lowest performers.

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>>61762730
>Canadian """education"""

>>61762731
My company is pretty Jewish, I've had offers from Raytheon to make ~200, but I don't want to move to DC
Those are also all in the Bay area, 100k here is pretty much the same as 200 there

>>61762733
This is true. Bachelor's degree is the new High School diploma. And it's also true that it really doesn't matter where you go for undergrad.

Make a high GPA in undergrad, get into a halfway decent Master's program and you're good to go.

I know some people who went to "prestigious schools" who don't know their ass from a hole in the ground.

>>61762755
They have offices in other locations you idiot.

>>61762705

>paying an enormous premium to have three special letters printed on your bachelor's degree certificate to get the same job as the leaf who paid 10% as much as you did

this entitled sense of american exceptionalism is exactly why your empire is circling the drain

>>61762755
I work for Raytheon and I love it. The pay isn't top tier but the benefits are probably the best around.

Thirty days off per year, great healthcare plan, great retirement plan, and many other benefits. I wouldn't want to work any other place.

>>61762731
99.99% of developers will never work for one of the big four out of school. Most developers are lucky to get $40,000 for their first job.

>>61762772
Show me a leaf from the Memorial University of Newfoundland that's working at Google.

Thinking that you're going to get a bachelor's degree in computer science and immediately go to work for Google or Amazon and you might as well be a fucking autistic child who still believes in the tooth fairy.

>>61755862
It isn't that bad. I went to college even though I'm legally retarded. And I earned enough to pay off my loans in a year and half.

It's the relatively high taxes for the few services our governments do provide that bother me. Apparently, the overall tax burden in the U.S. is about the same as Switzerland and Ireland but we get nothing for it.

>>61762788
Google, MS, Amazon, and Apple each have around 50k engineers. There would have to be more than 2.5 billion software engineers in the world for that statement to be correct.

>>61762791

>aspiring to be interchangable cog #3248235 in the tech giant du-jour

not at all a surprising goal for someone who thinks "school prestige" is worth literally anything

>>61762802
Bu-but our military anon

>>61762822
>aspiring to be interchangable cog #13 in some small company that no one ever heard of giving you shit pay

>>61762779
I've got a ton of friends at SI, one of the vr companies you bought out, they seem to like it too, I just don't really want to sell 0day to the government though
And getting tickets is a pain

>>61762824
I've never even seen our military. I'm skeptical it exists.

>>61762840

the smaller your company, the more leverage you have in it. do you really think that your bachelors from MIT is going to land you in some 6-figure hotshot corner office position at google? i would much rather work on a small team where i get face time with the top of management every single day. maybe once you finish your bachelors you will understand perspective and context a bit better.

A lot of guys from my Masters programs had problems getting a job for the first six months they graduated.

Many of them just banded together and started their own companies. They're doing quite well these days. There's TONS of government contracts who literally throw money at "small business" deals.

Some contracts are actually reserved ONLY for those types of companies. If you play your cards right you can make tons of money doing your own thing.

Get some of your Computer Science buddies, recruit a friend in the MBA program and start your own shit. I actually know people who have done this and they're making tons of money.

>>61762867
You're a replaceable code monkey no matter where you work buddy. Might as well actually get paid for your work.

>>61759082
inb4 Serbia, Bulgaria, Macedonia

>>61756839
>blacks invented slavery
wtf tyrone

>>61762889

you're really not getting it. the smaller the outfit, the less replaceable you are, because you are proportionally a much larger part of the machine.

you also won't be subject to the whims of braindead career middle-managers who exist purely to enforce the status quo. people see your work and your credibility on a daily basis and not just arbitrary KPIs in a spreadsheet.

if you really think that you're going to make significantly more money with a bachelor's at google than at a smaller outfit then i hate to inform you that you are in for a very nasty surprise in a few years.

>>61762889
On another note, the guy who lives in the apartment across from mine has the best gig imaginable.

He works for a company in the Netherlands and codes from home and gets paid in Euros instead of dollars. He sits around and orders pizza and smokes weed all day and just codes.

No real working hours either, the company just gives him a project and gives him a deadline to finish. As long as he finishes it on time everyone is happy.

I'd fucking kill to have that kind of deal.

>>61762962
>this much sour grapes
Let me know which start up in Canada pays 200k a year for new college graduates.

>>61762984

>implying you have to stay in canada once you finish your degree

>>61763002
Let me know which start ups pay 200k a year for new graduates from the University of New Brunswick.

>>61758207
>normalfag'd
Is that what you meant to say?

>>61763002
I'm sure someone in Rwanda or Angola would love to have someone with a Canadian degree.

>>61762511
Isn't US median income tax 19%?

>>61762984
>>61763011

>so butthurt about his student loan debt he double-posted

start ups are the least likely places that will skim the name of your school and throw it in the trash.

im sorry bud, but you were lied to. those precious three letters really aren't worth as much as you paid.

Like I said earlier, the only Canadian University that's worth a shit is the University of Toronto.

The rest might as well be the University of Phoenix School of Hairdressing.

I'm $78,033 in debt with 2 semesters left..

How fucked am I /g/ ?

>>61763051
You're going to be paying 1k a month for the next 30 years
Welcome to the club

>people arguing over the name of the school on their bachelors degree

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

nobody cares about what school you did your bachelors at losers. people care if you can make shit, make it right, and make it work.

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>>61763066
That doesn't sound tooo bad considering what my current pay is...

>>61755516
-Going to college and not networking your ass off is a meme

-Going to college and focusing on networking will lead to success even if you're not academically strong.

>>61763085
This is what I said earlier.

Go to an affordable Undergrad program, make an awesome GPA and use it to get into a decent Graduate program and you're good to go.

Graduate schools look at your Undergraduate GPA to see how well you're able to perform academically. That's half of what they base their admission criteria on, which is your ability to perform and do good work.

Going into tens of thousands of debt for your bachelors is just fucking stupid.

>>61755516
I got hired due to my bachelors and decent grades, so no. College is not a waste of time.

That being said, only the top 30% of my class got jobs straight out of university. Around 40% of my class still havent gotten hired (rightfully so since they don't know anything and most of them just coasted on other more talented people). That being said, if you're on a technology board then you're most likely going to breeze through a university degree without too much effort considering they structure the programs for complete retards with no previous knowledge.

I did a Computer Science bachelors and now I work as a consultant mostly dealing with IaaS. Will probably get a masters in security since the market is screaming for those, plus security is easily the most interesting part of IT.

>>61763128
Consider this, you're going to be paying back ~300k usd for your 80k loan, assuming you're at a 6% interest rate
It doesn't seem too bad, but it's just money stolen from you more or less

It's not a meme, unless you go to some no name university and major in some useless degree.

I'm in NYC and went to a CUNY for free because of financial aid. Double majored in Psych/Bio and am applying to Med school next year.

>>61763128

then pay more. the more principal you crush now, the less you pay in interest later. throw as much disposable income at it as you can NOW. it is actually better than saving it due to the interest you avoid

>>61763181
So you got a degree and now have to go to med school since you didn't get a job with those degrees yet you claim you didn't get scammed? How deluded are you?

>>61755516

>Live in SF
>Post a profile to AngelList
>Include my cute Facebook pic
>Don't even send out resumes
>Didn't even graduate from college
>Get 5 responses within a week
>They're all horny Pajeets/Asians that want me to work for their start-up companies

Sorry OP, it must really suck to be a white male LOL

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>>61763158
ya that's true...I chose a shitty private "university" (they just got their university status) and it's stupid expensive. There's nothing I can really do about it now except just finish what I started.

The interest on the loan site says 9%. How did you calculate the 300k?

>>61763184
I was thinking about doing this, but paying rent in the city is stupid expensive (still cheaper than the school's dorm). I start co-op (working full time) in a few weeks so maybe I can start paying small amounts then?

>>61763181
>Gone to Uni and majored in it.
>Next year going to Uni

I don't understand?

>>61763299
I don't believe you

>>61759082
Well one look at Burger institutional failure is enough to scare the avg yank in to a mexican stand off with their own govt yeah. I'd be a gun owning anti-big gov guy too if I lived in the USA.

>>61755862

I live at some schizo socialist country.

College is free, when you end any you Computer Science, Information Systems or other degree related to IT at a serious institution you usually are working at some company. The paycheck makes you be the 10% of citizens who live with more than 500 USD a month, but everything here is fucking expensive, laws are made to help criminals leave the jail and commit more crimes, there are wars among druglord everywhere and crime rates are skyrocketing.
Usually the top students here go work to at thr Google local office or go to North America, Europe, Australia, New Zealand, Taiwan, Singapore and never return.

I'm studying non stop since my life depends on it, I want leave this hellhole country and I will study non stop to be someone acknowledgeable by foreign companies. This is my life mission and I will achieve it no matter what.

College debt is a meme. Idiots who go out of state and don't go to community college are fools. I'm working on my Master's right now and I have $0 in debt. Won't have any when I graduate either.

>>61763335

Being female really does help out here. It's an ultra-liberal hell. I literally did nothing. I just posted my past work in real estate and I got tons of responses. I would imagine someone who has worked on their own projects and linked their github to their AngelList profile would get just as many responses as me.

>>61763412
Can confirm a full github helps.
I have my resume on either AngelList or Monster that linked to my github profile. Even though I'm already employed I get emails from recruiters who want to hire me for their webdev or mobile shit

>>61763330
Multiplied my monthly payment by the loan terms

>>61763330
>but paying rent in the city is stupid expensive

and THIS is why people who love to jerk off over "muh big google salaries" are idiots. your pay is completely relative to the cost of living in your area.

ironically this lack of big-picture visualization ability is exactly what makes them mediocre programmers at best

Certificates plus a portfolio will help way more.

Basically do some volunteer programming, then some freelance, build your portfolio. Get certified during all that (A+, Cisco, etc).

That WILL get you hired at a decent wage and it's cheaper than a college.

So yes, universities are a meme for the majority of CS work.

>>61763546
>Just become it!!!
Lmao

>>61757587
All the way through CALC1 is done in high school if you arent one of those autistic naruto kids

>>61763569
Seems to work well for the people I know, unless the three houses they built and six figure salary are bullshit.

Someone has buyer's remorse, don't they, anon?

>>61755516
Have AS in net eng sec, have 2 certs, working on ccna, work for an ISP doing help desk support for 30k a year.

Its not bad, but its not good. It, meh.

>>61763600
I didn't go to college, I'm also not dumb enough to become IT

>>61763600

Doing volunteer work is a huge waste of time. It's better to just be a creator and work on your own projects.

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>>61755516
>Anyone here working in Computer Science without a degree? Is it comfy?
Yeah, I am a QA Engineer (fun times, where everyone is an "engineer"), only elementary education on paper. But is it comfy? It certainly pays well, the job is quite enjoyable, but the more I work, the more I see how I am surrounded mostly by idiots. I also work exclusively with Linux, which makes the experience quite comfy considering my interests.
Any questions?

>>61757308
If this only were true. Our biggest problem are americans undercutting us. You hire a burger flipper here or three MIT graduates in the States for the same money.

>>61763776
Where do you live that the average wage for burger flipper is over $360,000/year (and whatever else the employer has to pay)?

>>61763517
I pay $1400 a month for a 1 bedroom apartment 10 minutes from work. Nice meme.

>>61763854
>360,000
>With a CS degree

Anon... I have some bad news for you...

>>61763232
That's pretty ignorant of you to say.

If he wants to be a doctor, he has to go to med school. You can't fucking walk into a hospital and wave some undergrad degree around, you'll get laughed out the door by every doctor, admin staff, and grandma in the waiting room.

>finished MSc top of my class
>one year later a NEET

>>61755516
>/g/ having a valid opinion on anything
Spicy shitposting we have here

>>61763938
He said three MIT graduates, didn't he?

>>61763938
>http://web.mit.edu/facts/alum.html
>$85000 mean salary
>probably double that with bonuses and stock
Stay yuropoor.

>>61763569
Not his fault you need someone to hold your hand and teach you how to program.

>>61763966
Wow, that's lower than I expected.

>>61763971
IT != CS
certs are for retards, champ

>>61763966
>85,000 x 2 = 170,000
>170,000 = 360,000

Found the retard.

I don't know if you understand basic mathematics, but 85,000 is less than 360,000.

Also, even if your double claim is true, 85,000 doubled is only 170,000. Something tells me your just starting college with the hopes of earning as much as an MIT employee on the higher chain with tons of experience.

Do people in this thread legitimately think they are going to earn 100k+ with a 4 year CS degree in salary alone?

Are people stupid?

>>61764014
That's a different guy. I had guessed the average wage was 120,000 without caring to look. So where do they pay 255,000 a year for a burger flipper?

>>61764014
I'm not. I make in the high six figures right out of college. Go look up what the starting offers are at Microsoft, Amazon, Google, Twitter, and Facebook.

>>61763941
But he majored in Bio/Psych?

you have to "major" in fucking highschool in America?

>>61764030
https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-salary-for-new-grads-starting-at-Facebook-in-2016
https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-salary-for-new-grads-starting-at-Snapchat-in-2016
https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-salary-for-new-grads-starting-at-Dropbox-in-2016
https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-salary-for-graduates-starting-at-Google-in-2016

>>61758166
>live the NEET lifestyle
reading comprehension, fucking retard. kill yourself useless NEET

Good for you, but you're the minority here.

And how many *don't* make that kind of money? Yes, you can get paid well, but you're not making half a million in salary.

And most general CS students are not going to make that much starting out. Quit peddling that lie.

>>61764003
>do some volunteer programming, then some freelance, build your portfolio.
Certs are there just to pad your resume. Make some good contributions to some open source projects, then show them off.

Companies like that, since a good chunk of CS grads are fizzbuzz-tier.

>>61764014
Did you miss the part where he said "three MIT grads"?

>>61764064
To become a doctor in the US, you need to first earn your bachelor's degree, then get accepted to med school, then earn a medical degree.
After that, you complete a residency (think apprenticeship, kinda) for 3+ years, at which point you can become licensed.

>>61764106
>And most general CS students are not going to make that much starting out. Quit peddling that lie.
Only if you go to a shitty cheap no-name university. All of my classmates started out at high paying jobs.

>>61764114
>To become a doctor in the US, you need to first earn your bachelor's degree, then get accepted to med school, then earn a medical degree.
After that, you complete a residency (think apprenticeship, kinda) for 3+ years, at which point you can become licensed.

Oh, okay. You don't need a previous bachelors degree over here, you just apply directly to med-school (during which you have to complete a residency as well).

I'm sorry then.

>>61764068
>Quora

Yes, everyone who graduates college will get hired to work at these companies.

ANON GO TO COLLEGE YOU'LL WORK FOR FACEBOOK AS SOON AS YOU GRADUATE! PROMISE YOU'LL HAVE A JOB! JUST PAY US!

>>61764124
Yeah, going to an expensive Ivy League college is the minority. Go Google the definition of majority and minority, you fucking cretin.

>>61764114
show them off to who? your IT buddies?
how is an A+ going to help you program?
certs are useless

>>61764114
>3 MIT grads = the majority of CS students.

Anon... math...

>>61764156
I didn't even go to an Ivy school. I went to a state university where tuition was $12k a year, but I received a full scholarship and did TA work to pay my living expenses.

All I want to know is where I can work at mcdonalds and get paid hundreds of thousands
someone help me

>>61764182
You ≠ Everyone Else

:) FYI

>>61764204
Anyone can do what I did if they aren't lazy.

>be 18
>see how expensive college is, parents have no money
>have no desire to bury myself in debt
>join the military as a network tech
>top grad at job training school
>get stationed at a NOC
>be fucking good at my job, superiors mostly leave me alone
>write config change templates all day
>Work like 35 hrs/week

The pay isn't bad, but it isn't great. On the other hand, no college debt and a pension after 20 years in makes it worth it, not to mention guaranteed promotions.

>>61764204
that is not exactly impressive or hard to do.

I was called in and offered a job as a TA (that I took) because of my grades. I went to a state school too so tuition was cheap, but grants already paid for everything.

>>61764239
And you make 360,000 a year, right? lol

>>61764257
No that's how much 3 MIT grads make. Are you retarded?

>>61764257
400k, actually, after bonuses

Depends on your major. Paying $80,000 for a humanities degree is gonna fuck you up because you will never earn that much money back in 1 year in your entire life. If you are getting a degree in STEM, econ, business, or med then yea it isn't that bad of an investment.

>>61764276
if only college was covered in the US like it is in every first world country

>>61764289
It is if you aren't dumb.

>>61764271
And you made that the first day you started?

>>61764289
it kind of is depending on your poverty level. If you are poor then you get free college through financial aid. IMO federal loans and financial aid should only go to degree programs have have a very low rate of defaulting on loans (the degree programs I listed in the previous comment are those).

>>61764301
i actually was given a 30 million dollar starting bonus when i first got hired, so i guess i technically made more :/

>>61764176
>Our biggest problem are americans undercutting us. You hire a burger flipper here or three MIT graduates in the States for the same money.

>$85000 mean salary for a MIT grad
>$85,000 * 3 = $255,000
>about $33k in benefits to make up the difference

I think you're getting your replies mixed up, friendo.

>>61764152
No problem.

It's a painfully long process, but also helps to ensure that our doctors are competent.

>>61764174
You put them on your resume, silly.
They're probably not strictly needed for programming jobs, but they do show you have an understanding on networking, which is essential to many applications today.

>>61764257
why did you post something so retarded?

>>61764257
Stop using my bullshit 360,000/year number out of context. That was for three MIT graduates.

See
>>61763776
>You hire a burger flipper here or three MIT graduates in the States for the same money.

>>61763854
>Where do you live that the average wage for burger flipper is over $360,000/year

>>61764328
The cool thing, though, is that student debt isn't affected by bankruptcy.

Everyone's gonna be in for some hurt when the student loan bubble pops.

>>61764351
Yeah, well some retard in this thread is going to think he's guaranteed 360k a year. You know how stupid /g/ can be, let alone the majority of students who attempt a CS degree.

>>61764386
Well, if they know how to follow quotes and have basic reading comprehension it ought not be a problem.

>>61764337
That's still not six figures outright. You had to add benefits, bonuses and a whole bunch of others things that are dependent on which company you work for.

I can promise you are very like NOT to earn 300,000 a year starting out.

> live in the netherlands
> doing a bachelor in IT business & management
> 25.000€ debt
> graduated
> debt is discarded because I got my diploma within 10 years
> €0,- debt
feels good man

>>61757269
I think that it's more about buying shit you don't really need with your student loans because 'teehee I'm in debt anyway who cares about another 1k lol' and suddenly when it comes to actually pay it you start caring and then they're like 'hurr sure why do I have to pay it, why I can't find a job in a field where there is 100 people contesting for a 1 job. We live in a world where we need more McDonald's workers than PHDs, that's just how it is.

>>61755516
>he doesn't get paid for studying
EE btw.
Enjoy your debts.

>>61764412
That $360,000 figure is what it would cost to employ *THREE* MIT grads.
Literally no one is saying that a CS grad is going to make $300k.

>>61759082
>unlike most of European countries.
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

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>>61755516
It must fucking suck to live in a state where you have to pay tuition for college. Non-New Yorkers BTFO'd

these are my completed courses in city college, I have another go at it this semester with the remaining classes. Never graduated high school, no ged, no hiset either.

Intermediate Algebra 125 - 5 UNITS
Numerical Control - Lathe, Intro into cam/cad. - 3 UNITS
Print Interpretation I - 3 UNITS
Print Interpretation II - Inspection and GD&T - 3 UNITS
Machine Practice and Theory - 4 UNITS
Machine Practice I - 3 UNITS
ELECTRON - Computer Hardware - 4 UNITS
Introduction to Science, Engineering and Technology - 2 UNITS
Machine Practice II - 3 UNITS

Non college certs
Comptia A+ & Security

What I still need to have done.

Numerical Control - Mill
Material of Engineering
Machine Practice III

used bog fee waiver because broke, so i only paid for books.

>>61757269
College is free in the US.

>>61766277
what exactly do you have to gain by lying?

>>61766300
>semester of classes: $3,500
>FAFSA for semester (free money from the US government that you don't pay back): $5000

You're right, I actually get paid to go to college. $1500 for a semester.

>>61763021
Wouldn't know, I am NEET. It's too god damn high whatever it is.

>>61763374
Where the hell do you live to make that possibe? What is your job and income?

>>61763593
Not all of us are as mathematically gifted as you, anon. Public education does fuck-all for us that aren't naturally talented.

>>61766789

Not him, but he is 100 percent correct. Even if say you never completed high school, and you are broke, the state will pay for it with something like a bog fee waiver, even better if say you have got a high school diploma, all that shit is paid for plus extra, they give you $$ deposited into your account. I know guys who go to our local college who didn't pay a fucking dime and doesn't ever have to, spent half their money on whatever the fuck they wanted to. As long as you pick a full semester which isn't even that much, and do good, you are golden.

>Income

I do part time job while I live with gf so it splits the bills and makes it easier for me.

>>61766789

Oh and to answer your question, California is one state, I don't give a fuck how down and out you are, if you are willing to learn they will help you out, so there is no excuses. I guess this is one of the very few things good about Liberal California. As long as you stay away from the ivory towers you should be good.

>>61756743

Same here brah. I gave myself a luxury lifestyle for 5 years living in high end dorms all at the taxpayers expense and I had a 6 figure job lined up 6 months before graduation. If you're not a fucking retard and have a good work ethic, a STEM college degree is the single biggest upgrade you can give your life other than killing yourself and being reborn as a beautiful rich woman.

I don't got a clue how they determine employment eligibility for the state jobs, must be pretty lax cause my poor ass with only some college Ciso CCNA classes and several Certs under his belt is qualified for pretty much any IT job with the state up to a grade 17 (50K). I know cause I've applied for them all and personal has said "ok" to each one. I've got 12 yrs of state service already (non IT job atm)

>>61764213
It's not about fucking laze. Just end this meme already. We don't all live in states that don't rape you for tuition and are free with their money.

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Doing a comp sci degree here
Pretty comfy desu

TFW University of Toronto is a meme and the easiest school to get into.. fucking cucks

>>61764289
Canada doesn't have free college.
Japan doesn't have free college.
Are they any less first world?

>>61767733
>leafs
>suicideponese
yeah they might as well be third worlds

>>61762872
Become your own boss
Live fullfilling lifestyle
Relatively easy although most people here are NEETs with no friends or network and complain about there 40k a year web dev job
Shit... this guy is based.

>>61766379
M I N O R I T Y
I
N
O
R
I
T
Y

>>61755516
Meme yes, but you still need to get one if you want to not close any doors for future jobs. There are a lot of places which require at least a bachelor.
Student loans are just from parents who kick you out to early. By the end of this year I'll have enough money to pay for the rest of my college. I've never taken a student loan, and probably never will.

>>61766907
>Even if say you never completed high school, and you are broke, the state will pay for it with something like a bog fee waiver, even better if say you have got a high school diploma, all that shit is paid for plus extra, they give you $$ deposited into your account.
I don't think my shithole would do mich for me since I'm white and have a penis. I know that Mexicans can get free or cheap college here.
>I live with gf
Now I'm triggered.

>>61756233
>- networking
Big meme, you'll only get connections that matter when you work.

>- access to technology that one wouldn't otherwise be able to access cheaply / easily
Most nuUniversities are poor af. Again, you need connections for these which you'll get at work.

>- structure / organization
So you have no discipline? Nice

- most companies require a degree
If they are shit. Your credentials and previous experience are enough.

>>61767993
then get a tan and spic haircut and lie that you're hispanic

>>61768076
Topkek. I look too European to pull this off. I've had people randomly approach me and ask if I'm from Europe even though I'm amerimutt.

>>61756743
>Paying for loans ever

What a fucking tool. I went with grants and I have no debt

>>61756411
Listen just because it's well rounded does not mean it teaches better at what you want to do compared to studying online by yourself.

>>61767993
>I'm white

Color has got jack shit to do with it when it comes to getting accepted into community college, either you qualify or you don't. I have seen plenty of white people in community colleges who have used either a fee waiver or got a pel grant, they later transfer out to UCLA or USC. The only people who don't get help are those with parents who can afford it, or they themselves can afford it.

>>61768379
I applied for the Pell grant. For a full-time load I got $500. I had a shit-tier job making $13k and the college literally would not help with any other aid. Community college is a joke here.

>>61768512

Minimum is $600 , so I dunno why you would get less. Usually people I have seen getting accepted for that grant, they get well over that, like 4-5K.

>>61755516
Not only a meme but also a SCAM. So I advise my fellow Americans to please avoid college, at all costs.

>>61768198
yes and you lived off of cup noodles and instant coffee, while I was living off of lobster and zimbabwe gourmet coffee. you wore sketchers and toms while I wore raf simons and rick owens

>>61755516
No. First of all, you learn MUCH more than what they teach you. You meet professors, who can refer you, you meet friends, who can collaborate with you. You build connections. You can't just walk into some college you don't go to and say "hey, look at me".

>>61768626
Maybe it was different six years ago when I went? I don't know, I might be slightly off.

>>61767818
White male in my 20s.

>>61755516
It is comfy. The people I know with degrees are help desk monkies. If you're a good programmer and can prove it in the interview, you'll get a comfy job.

>>61768930
what you faggots fail to realize is university is also about having fun, making connections, and hanging out with your friends

>>61756233
>require a degree
Yes, just like they require you to have 10+ years in 16 different languages. If people like you actually still believe this shit you're absolutely retarded.

Companies strictly advertise for the perfect candidate, the "ideal" one that is basically non-existent. You still apply to jobs regardless, you have nothing to lose by applying. You've been brainwashed by the college/employer-jew.

>>61768961
sour grapes

I bet you got denied from community college

>>61768952
You can make connections anywhere, you don't need to go to a fucking college to do that. Also going to college to have "fun" is another retarded idea. It's not fun paying back $40K of debt unless you're absolutely insane.

>>61768884
I was talking about your experience.

>>61768992
That's where I went and I have a damn good job because I'm good at programming. Enjoy your useless theory and endless debt, faggot.

>>61769008
Almost all my friends are doing the same.

>>61769052
Wat state?

>>61768952
>university is also about having fun... and hanging out with your friends
No, college is to invest in yourself so you can have a decent future.

The idea that you need to go to college to get the "Animal House" experience is leaving a massive proportion of young adults with tens of thousands of dollars in student debt.

>>61769064
His state doesn't matter, the FAFSA is federal aid.
It's possible to be eligible for up to $5k-ish per year, but of course that's not going to come close to covering full time school.

It's very helpful, however, if you work and go to school.

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>>61769016
>>61769071
I have very little debt and already have a job lined up (see >>61756743 )

The "useless theory" was fun to learn about so I don't mind. University was fun and I am glad I went. I found my job at a job fair they had at school so I did not have to try very hard for anything. I have just been coasting for the past 3 or so years. There is no reason to feel mad or left out lads.

>>61769144
oh I just wanted to add: let's see you guys try to get a job as an electrical engineer without going to university.
>"b-b-but I learned how to design circuits by watching youtube videos!"
kek

>>61769131
>His state doesn't matter
It does for cost. Some states manage to control costs better than others.

>>61769064
California. SFSU

>>61769285
>sfsu
Couldn't get into Berkley or Stanford then?

>>61763366
Oh, Hi fellow Brazilian studying CS

>>61769342
>why did you get a free ride at SFSU instead of paying several hundred thousand dollars for your degree at a different school?

>>61769342
Didn't wanna travel. And plenty of alumni work at tech companies around here.

>>61769434
Is it any good? SFSU kind of looked sub-par compared to the other schools in the area, desu.

>>61769503
I have no clue what criteria you're trying to compare against. I got an internship at Facebook if that applies.

>>61769574
So it makes sellouts. Gotcha.

>>61766277
>>61766379
>>61766277
Not exactly true. Only certain people qualify for financial aid grants and only up to a certain amount of dollars.

>>61769598
>implying there is anything at all wrong with selling out

I bet you wear skinny jeans with your keffiyeh

>>61769598
Exactly what artistic integrity is someone compromising by working at a large tech company?

>>61757359
>headed to uni to finish a BS in CS. Still about to take $60k in debt because of it.
>Fuck the US and their shitty schooling system. Why should I have to accept this much fucking debt with shit done ahead of time?
>>>
> Anonymous 08/05/17(Sat)21:47:
What job

>>61769598
Hell, I'd work for them if only to get paid to learn how their botnet works.

So do I go to college or not?

>>61769650
>>61769652
San Fransisco needs to be purged.

>>61769727
Californistan needs to be purged

>>61769727
>>61769747
>NEET fuckups crying about places they have never been to
kill yourselves

>>61769699
The real question is: Do you habe anything better to do?
>>61769751
I walk among you scum. You're all deserving of death. Get out of my bay. By the Glory Emperor Norton my land will be free of the subhuman trash that the filthy ex-hippy yuppie cunts spat out one day. Mark my words, filth.

>>61769751
I don't need to go there, they came here.
t. Oregonian

>>61769727
Sounds like you're just jealous you can't hop right out of college and make 6 figures.

>>61769784
I'm from Los Angeles. If you think everyone in California acts like the dumbasses in SF you are dead-wrong
>>61769788
You guys have much bigger problems than people coming form california. They don't call it "free-attle" for no reason.
>>61769833
sounds good until you realize that is poverty-tier in the valley

>>61769833
>judges success and happiness by size of wallet
keep proving my point, techie filth. You do this for the money, we do this for the love. I look forward to fucking your daughters and wives.

>>61755516
Of course college is a meme. Society is a fucking meme. Being born into a civilized world was a huge ripoff. We've been robbed of inner strength, personal growth, and the greater dignity of oneness with nature. We've been fucking locked out of vital life experiences. If we were all born savages and had to seek shelter under rocks and kill animals with our bare hands to avoid a constant imminent threat of starvation, our lives would be better. Not as happy, granted, not to mention shorter and bereft of hedonistic pleasures. But better. Better as in stronger, more meaningful, and less infested with mental illness.

>>61769864
I'm not supporting a family of 4.

>>61769870
>implying I don't love programming

>>61762531
>Pell grants before repubs gutted it
>Thousands of dollars a semester
>Pell grants after repubs gutted it
>500 bucks a year

>>61769913
>t. Unabomber

>>61769930
The fine state of the GOP. I weep for what they once were.

>>61769870
>I look forward to fucking your daughters and wives.
These are not the words of anyone who does anything "for the love." These are the words of a sociopath. Kill yourself you sex crazed lunatic.

I may as well share my personal anecdotal evidence for how college has been beneficial.

>poor family life, overly religious parents, mental health issues, no health insurance
>after a couple years of community college, transfer to university
>in California, tuition is free for students from lower income families (for the UCs at least)
>enrollment comes with university's health insurance
>move out, meet new people, have fun, start going to therapy, finally get laid
>get CS degree (technically a weird hybrid BA, but whatever)
>only about $20k debt from room and board
>struggle for a while after college to find a job and move back in with parents
>find job, move out, stay at job, get promoted, make $75k now (not a lot, but enough to live comfortably)

>>61770054
$74K is more than what teachers make in New York. I'd say that is pretty good.

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>>61763021
WTF!!!
income tax in europe is 40-60%

>>61770114
In CA it's not much.
That's what all these guys touting 6 figure jobs in the bay area don't get.
In almost anywhere else, $80k is enough to live a very comfortable existence.

yes.
I finish school this year. I have two friends from the year above, one went of to Uni to do Computer Science over four year and it's costing him like 40k while my other friend did some Cisco and Microsoft certifications in his spare time last year and now he's got a 60k a year job doing small sysadmin for the local council. I know which I'm going to follow.

>>61770232
there's a reason we call you europoors

>>61770421
Rent is $1500 a month for a 800 sq ft one bedroom apartment. I max out my 401k and save $40k a year into a taxable investment account.

>>61770482
rent is $1500 for a one bedroom apt in silicon valley?

>>61755516
It's not the 90ies anymore, so it's hard to land a job without a degree. First hand experience is ofc really what matters still though.

The edu system isn't so fucked up as in the US over here though, even still you know when you hire people you have to test them. It's very divided among freshly educated, how good they are so one doesn't only look at your grades, that's not enough.

Some students knew computers and programming etc before they went into school, or started working hard on it while in there, you want those.

The others just went to school and don't really care and basically don't know shit, you don't want those.

Frankly I miss the 90ies, back then even the sucky ones were good and knew what they were doing. It's too many of the "I'm doing my job"-people today. They always reject new shit and also refuse to learn it, very annoying to work with those

My previous job was kill because of that crap
>Oh anon, what are you doing here now then, you can't use lamdas because I don't understand[not willing to learn]
>Oh anon, what are you doing here? what is this task based stuff, you can't do that, I understand it
>Anon... what

Just gas them all

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>>61769913
I can't say I disagree Varg, but there is nothing preventing you from not fishing and hunting and stuff

In my opinion you are not a man unless you do those things

>>61770495
try 3500

>>61769864
>"free-attle"
>Oregonian
wot

>>61763366
Your story is unironically inspiring. I wish you the best of luck.

>>61770421
$75k guy here. I live in Orange County. Not as expensive as the bay, but still far from reasonable. I pay about $1900/month for a (admittedly pretty nice) one-bedroom apartment.

>>61770232
You get a lot more for your taxes though. Healthcare in America is stupid expensive.

>>61756411
Enjoy your debt retard

>>61768961
No not brainwashed, but I'm not a "natural". I don't have the iron will needed to self-teach programming and software development techniques. Basically you have to be pretty goddamn impressive to pull of landing a high paying non-shit web dev job without a degree.
and I'll reiterate that I think one of the biggest reasons to go to college is for the networking opportunities. Outside of school you either have to contribute to open source software, or know several programmers / developers already.

in summary: college(CS or related degree) = easy mode, bootcamp / college(non-CS related degree) = medium mode, self-taught = hard mode.

>>61763756
>My interest
What do you mean?

Also if you don't have a degree, what do you suggest which helps with an application for working as a programmer or "engineer"

If my father wasn't able to pay out of pocket for college I'd have gone to trade school and been an electrician or some shit. It's only worth it if you can make it through without being financially ruined. If it'll mean taking a nickel over $30k in debt it's a bad idea and you should resign yourself to blue collar labor.

The problem is that people are pressured into going one way or another and are desperate to get and stay in, so they ruin their lives with debt and don't think about WHAT degree they're getting - Only that they're getting a degree just like "everyone else".

tl;dr it's a meme, but it doesn't have to be a bad meme unless you're an idiot

>>61756411
If the purpose is to make you a well-rounded human being, then you don't need to take out a mortgage-worth of debt to achieve that.

Even than... I can assure you that taking out a $100,000 loan and backpacking your way around the world for 4 years while also taking small part-time jobs everywhere you go will do more for your personal growth and better transition you into being an adult than 4 years of a liberal arts education.

>Not being a professional NEET

>>61756135
>mandatory accelerated composition class my first semester
>had some of the "check your privilege" stuff but was otherwise so vapid I can't even remember much to get pissed about
>took literature in a 20th and 21st century context for literary gen ed requirement, only read the first three books (out of eight, not counting short stories/poems) because I'm a retard who reads slow and finished all of them late to boot
>string together my final essay as basically "dude Gattaca lmao," teacher says I had an unmatched understanding of "how things work" but got a B on it because I can't into proper style/formatting, C for the class overall when like 2/3 got an A
>did intro to logic for non-lit humanities gen ed, professor was big on discussion board posts, lectures had almost fuck-all to do with the subject or exams and literally 40% of the class dropped because they got tired of her bullshit
>had to remind her of a quiz score she forgot to get my grade up to a B (didn't do the discussion board posts past the first few because edgy freshman)

>>61756192
>>61755862

I pay 40% income tax, 24% value added tax, like 75% taxes for fuel and alcohol.

Yeah I'd rather pay for my (children's) education than pay these taxes.

>>61755862
you'll pay for it once you get a job viea VAT and income taxes.

also, you'll pay for Muhammeds flat and support his 5 children you stupid cuck

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>>61772834
First and foremost knowledge and experience. You cannot bullshit your way into a good position without skills.
The second thing would be abusing HR idiots. Since I was underage when I installed my first Linux, and started learning it, later doing few gigs for money, often doing stuff for myself and for free, I put it on my resume as "freelance" experience, giving me 5+ years of experience in my early 20s. And I'm still adding years to that, as long as I'm doing stuff outside of normal job.
To my first real job, I applied as an intern, but thanks to skills got hired as a junior. Been there for 3 months, before I got caught by a recruiter, and left for the other company after 4th month. LinkedIn profile helped me in that. Don't try to hit too high with first job, get whatever you can in the field, as it will show to potential future employers, that you have worked in a real company, and that you have some experience in the field.
One more tip for resumes, try to not lie, but omit "unimportant" facts instead and exaggerate the truth. If your position says "junior something", you can drop the "junior" part. Also don't include stuff you do not want to be asked about, you can also keep only few latest important entries. If you dropped out of school, you can list it as education, just don't include attending years. You can then remove it after you get your first job.
Keep your resume one page, use more keywords, less sentences. People will tl;dr walls of text.
For programming, I think a GitHub profile might help you. If you have old projects, but don't work on them too often, there are tools that can rewrite dates of commits, to fill the GitHub activity grid with pretty green color (or make pixel art). One of the nice features of git, that it allows to you rebase and push --hard.

>>61771294
This post is retarded