Wtf /g/ why didnt you tell me that this had a futures/promises

>>61634489
I personally find Rust to be caring about different goals than I am interested. Make no mistake, I absolutely hate C++ however it doesn't have annoying features like Generic traits and lifetimes.

All I need is a modern C++ that
1. Does not have C preprocessor
2. Has RAII
3. Does not have GC
4. Ditches source level C compatibility
5. Modules and no header files.
6. And of course, lazy iterators, lambdas, pointer arithmatics, CTFE, hygienic macro system etc.

>>61634626
>doesn't want c compatibility for whatever reason so he loses a fuckton if libs
>but wants to have pointer arithmetic

Why, brainlet?

>>61634655
See: source level C compatibility (which C++ is forever burdened with)

>>61634489
>sjw programming language
SHOW YOUR TITS FAGGOT

>>61634671
You mean socks

>>61634674
programming socks*

>>61634671
>faggots
>tits
Are you new to the internet?

>>61634671
>>61634674
>>61634703
>>61634740

OP here, I'm not gay

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>>61634489
>It's only a matter of time before C/C++ is abandonware.
oh you delusional retard.
rust is not the default prog language on any platform and is not being pushed by any multibillion dollar company. it has no fucking future.
worst of all, it's run by communists, antifa, SJWs and anti-white jews who literally call for death of whites.

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>NO
>STEP THROUGH
>DEBUGGER

>>61635092
Real men don't need debuggers

>>61634671
>sjw programming language
who even cares

>>61635092
I'm sure you can use gdb

>>61635129
lldb

>>61635095
This.

Real manly programmers use print statements to debug the code.

>>61634895
>rust is not the default programming language on any platform
so?
>not being pushed by any multibillion dollar company
Mozilla? Dropbox?
>worst of all, it's run by communists, antifa, SJWs and anti-white jews who literally call for death of whites.
proof?

>>61635509
Samsung and VMWare are using it too FYI

>>61634626
Rust has all of those. Am I missing something?

>>61634655
"c compatibility" and "c source compatibility" are different things dude

>>61635529
Oracle uses it as well

>>61635529
EPIC! Another point for the good guys 8)

Can anyone explain what futures are for, what do they do differently to async/await for example?

>>61634489

Futures and promises have too high of a abstraction cost. Stack/stackless coroutines are way better or Go channels are the way to go.

Seriously, everytime someone suggests Rust can now replace C/C++ is somewhat deluded. It is still high level incomplete and is missing a ton of stuff low level. Seriously, they JUST added unions in the latest release. How long is it going to take until anonymous structs and unions, or something as simple as aligned memory allocation?

The main problem is the language can't be simply implemented like a C compiler. Having 1 implementation will strangle the language eventually.

>>61636024
But Rust's futures abstractions are zero cost!

>>61634489
Why are Rustfags so proud of adding terrible JavaScript memes?

>>61636018
async/await are futures

>>61634489
>that doesn't require standard lib
>standard lib

it's standard, there's no difference because you'll always have <future> to #include

>>61636854
C++ <regex> is literally JavaScript

>>61636307
Marketing bullshit. Remember when they said
>Macros are so powerful they build super duper hyper optimized regexes at compile time!
... now it's
>Please stop using the regex macro

Daily reminder of the things written in C/C++:

All OSs desktop and mobile, and the new ones like Fuchsia.
All firmware on billions of embedded devices, from civilian applications to military.
Pretty much most of the scientific research software.
All performance critical software from simulations, CAD, rendering both photorealistic and real time like game engines.
The fucking INTERNET.
All security software, like encryption, firewalls etc.
All drivers.
All the good books that I've read on CS, networking, cybsec, only mention C and Linux, other languages and OSs don't even fucking exist.
Daily reminder that if you removed all the Java,C#,Rust,Go... code out there, not much would happen.
Daily reminder that if you removed all the C/C++ code, we would be back in the middle ages.
Daily reminder that only koders use Java,JS,C# and that they know nothing about CS.
Daily reminder that Rust,Go... are just fucking memes no serious programmer gives a shit about.
Daily reminder Rustfags care more about their crazy political ideologies and Rust is just a way for them to spread their filth.
Daily reminder that C/C++ will outlive you.
Daily reminder that koders like sucking dick.

>>61637146
koders are moving to modern pythonic C++

>>61634626
You literally described Rust.

>lifetimes are features
Features? Really? How are they features?
Every language has lifetimes. It's just that in Rust you sometimes has to show what your lifetimes are.
They are help for the compiler to show the flow of your program. Maybe some day writing them will not be necessary, but as of now you sometimes need to help the compiler to infer the lifetimes, if the compiler can't do it on it's own.

>>61637146
You mean, all that shit around me is full of exploitable holes everywhere and people are still adding more holes every day?
>Stop this planet! I wanna get out!

>>61637353
[citation needed ]
>>61637506
We've been through this before, a language can't be insecure, you can write insecure code in any language.

>>61637146
thank you for stating the truth. sadly /g/ has become pajeet central as of late...

>>61637532
>[citation needed ]
auto [citation, needed] faggot

>>61635509
See the throbbing CoC

>>61637353
even if modern C++ were to resemble python (which I'd argue it doesn't), that's not a problem because it still comes with the advantages of a compiled language like static typing, extreme speed, and good diagnostics.

>>61637146
>software written before Rust became a usable language is not written in rust
Wow.

>>61637146
>Daily reminder that if you removed all the Java,C#,Rust,Go... code out there, not much would happen.
you would fucking starve if you removed all the java code out there you ignorant fuck

>>61635129
Yeah, GDB works just fine.

>>61637146
And all of this would be way less buggy if it were written in a langage without null pointers.

>>61637844
exactly, null pointers are the primary source of bugs and vulnerabilities
idiot

Am I doing a huge mistake learning c and c++ now?

>>61637873
probably

>>61634489
>>61634626
I would like to use Rust for embedded systems, but the lack of compile time features and higher memory use is a pretty big blocker. For comparison see the mem column here:
http://benchmarksgame.alioth.debian.org/u64q/compare.php?lang=rust&lang2=gpp

>>61636940
>>Please stop using the regex macro
Why, does it slow the compilation time too much, is it buggy or does using it make the code unreadable?

>>61637924
>For comparison see the mem column here
that kode is ""optimized"" for speed you fucking idiot

don't take that shit seriously

>>61638071
That's a good point. It would also be interesting to see binary sizes on a -O2 + freestanding environment.

>>61635676
Rust doesn't have CTFE. And I said "doesn't have annoying features like mandatory traits in generics and lifetimes." (equivalent)

>>61637610
Still waiting for that citation fuccboi.

>>61637699
Exactly, and it's going to stay that way.

>>61637796
>you would fucking starve if you removed all the java code out there you ignorant fuck
Prove it.

Nothing, absolutely nothing will replace C and C++. Deal with it, faggot.

>>61639598
there is still room for a language that's productive AND low level

>>61639562
Software that is already written in a certain language will very likely stay written in that language.
I don't see your point.

>>61637532
>We've been through this before, a language can't be insecure, you can write insecure code in any language.
But some languages make it much easier. "Insecure language" does not necessarily mean every program written in it is insecure, it's a question of how easy it is to make security bugs (and how many language-specific ones there are).

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>>61639562
will sepples ever recover?

>>61634626
This.

Also needs all the nitpicky shit cleaned up (obtuse syntax and half the STL).

>>61639656
There is no NEED for new language, there already are too many and nobody's going to rewrite the huge code base of already written and well tested code in C to a new language "just because" and without any business with doing that.

>>61639942
>There is no NEED for new language
there is a need, python is too slow and C++ has shit syntax and missing features

>>61639841
only
>bank
>finance
>heathcare
nice cherrypicking, faggot

>>61640017
People that wrote all that code until now don't have this problem. Maybe you're just a bad programmer?

>>61640055
>why have cars when everyone is happy riding horses
>maybe you're just a bad horse rider

>>61640085
You ran out of arguments about programming languages and now you're talking about some horse shit? In Python you can call C code that can use OpenMP for efficient parallelization. C++ has good syntax, when you write reasonable code, it's just not idiot proof. I'm really curious what are those missing features, go on and enlighten me and don't tell me it's gc. Do you even write computer programs? If so, what kind of programs? Have you written anything for HPC cluster? I don't think so.

>>61635189
>Real manly programmers use print statements to debug the code.
Wait I do this, is it bad?

>>61640130
> C++ has good syntax
wrong it's ridiculously clumsy

idiot proof or not, it does not help you to get shit done

>>61640130
>I'm really curious what are those missing features, go on and enlighten me and don't tell me it's gc.
if you don't know you're not a C++ programmer

hint: Boost

>>61637873
If you're looking to eventually be employed yes. If you're just doing it for learning purposes then no.

>>61640171
Tell this to all the people that got amazing shit done with C++ including Carmack and the guys behind Unreal Engine, people who write CFD code for wind simulations of wings in airplanes in Boeing and many, many other people. You don't know shit.

>>61640189
Why the fuck do you need a library inside a language? Just fucking include it you cretin.
I know C++ and other languages too.

>>61640130
>C++ has good syntax, when you write reasonable code, it's just not idiot proof
Declarator syntax fucking sucks, god help you if you want to declare a function pointer. Using & and && for references sucks too. There are at least 5 different ways to initialize an object and they can all behave differently. Template syntax is ludicrously heavyweight and templates in general are bound by a ton of bizarre restrictions. Good luck putting any constraints on your template parameters too, because the only way to do that currently is to do some horrific hack like

typedef typename std::enable_if<predicate()>::type constraint;

C++ does not have clean syntax. Not in the slightest.

>>61640207
people dug canals and built pyramids with their bare hands, don't mean he don't need mechanization you fucking moron

you're not even a programmer, just some number crunching code monkey that doesn't understand efficiency and dev speed

>>61639942
>there already are too many

Nah. Most of them are terrible and have terrible implementations that can never be optimized to a reasonable degree. Many of them also have huge problems with parallelism that can never be solved without breaking backwards compatibility.

There's still lots of room for modern languages with good implementations.

>>61640219
Just declare function pointers like you'd do it in C and you're ok and besides that don't use features just for the sake of using them, if you can do the same thing easier, do it. Nobody's forcing you to use templates like this.

>>61640238
I understand all that and even more and the proof of this is that you're not talking about fucking pyramids. Go watch ancient aliens and leave programming to programmers you piece of brainlet shit.

>>61640256
I disagree.

>>61640207
>Why the fuck do you need a library inside a language?
lol what moron

just fuck off you retard

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>>61640041
c++ ded

>>61640280
Not everything has to be inside a standard library of a language, for this reason you can use external libraries like Boost. Now you fuck off, I'm done with this thread full of idiots like you.

>>61640318
c++ is more popular in modern tech fields

high tech and gaming are almost exclusively c++

>>61640274
> I disagree

Well you're very obviously wrong. Every major technology company is investing in new languages for very good reason.

>>61634489
>It's only a matter of time before C/C++ is abandonware.
The BSDs would like a word with you.

>>61640322

with every post you prove that you're a moron

imho you don't even use c++ beyond college level shit

>>61639841
>>61640318
it's still true that if you worry about employability you should learn java and not forget it

>>61640238
If you're talking shit on c++ than there's no fucking way you're not a retarded code monkey

>>61640529
lol nice try but the biggest critics are c++ gurus who wrote best selling books on c++

>>61640529
If you're not talking shit about C++, there's no way you have any experience with it and any other language.
You could easily have all the shit that you have now with much cleaner syntax if you simply designed the language coherently rather than building shit upon shit over decades.
D would be that if it didn't go full retard with its GC dependency.

>>61634489
C++11 has future and promises as part of the spec.

what's your point?

>>61640529
There are maybe 10 people in the entire world that fully understand C++ and how all the features interact. You're not one of them.

>>61640647
do people actually use those?

>>61640616
>D would be that if it didn't go full retard with its GC dependency.
GC dependency? you can turn it off

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>>61634626
>1. Does not have C preprocessor
>5. Modules and no header files.
Why?

>>61640727
It's endemic in the language. You can't use half of the standard library without leaking memory for the GC. Array slices? Mandatory GC.
You can't "just" turn it off. Too much of the language depends on it.

>>61640741
They do no good.

>>61637146
>and the new ones like Fuchsia.
https://github.com/fuchsia-mirror/magenta-rs

>>61640741
Speeds up compilation time and removes possible dependency on the order of includes.

>>61640790
D developers argue that garbage collection improves performance: https://dlang.org/spec/garbage.html

>>61640874
I seriously doubt that unless you're using shared_ptr everywhere like a dipshit.

>>61640856
PR stunt. Typescript is the only language Google ever approved besides C/C++, Java, Python. Homegrown languages like Go and Dart excluded.

>>61640856
That was just something some of the Fuchsia developers did in their free time. Rust isn't an approved language at Google.

>>61640874
This is entirely dependent on how much garbage you're generating and how much money you're willing to spend on memory.

I've seen places in finance that use Java but in order to get acceptable performance they have to have systems with ridiculous amounts of memory so that they can ensure garbage collection doesn't happen during trading hours.

>>61641756
>Garbage collection isn't a problem if you never have to collect garbage

>>61641770
That's the idea yes. In most benchmark contexts where this is being spouted by Java developers it's quite a bit dumber because they use that to claim that Java is faster. Then they ignore the fact that's it's trivial to allocate a huge memory pool in C or C++ as well and that C and C++ blow Java out of the water again once that is done.

>>61641939
That's the problem with GC. Any performance gain you think you gain from the removal of determinstic destruction is simply deferred until later. You can't sustain the performance.

>>61642104
Yup. Java also has other huge problems like lacking value types and having no way to control how objects are laid out in memory. Overall, it's just shit if you really care about performance and efficiently using memory.

>>61642235
> like lacking value types and having no way to control how objects are laid out in memory.
I feel like you repeated yourself here, at least as far as performance is concerned (obviously it affects the semantics of the language)
In Java you're at the mercy of the garbage collector to compact your heap in a sensible way, and that's all you can do. It's not like you can have true arrays, is it?

>>61635509
I believe Dropbox is using Go, sorry

>>61642820
They use both

>>61642911
They use Rust slightly a bit more heavily than Facebook used D

>>61642943
They still use Rust in production.

>>61642987
Yeah in a tiny fraction of their code base

>>61643010
Which is still using it.

Hello, I am here to shill lisp.
Lisp is good, please use lisp.

Thank you.

>>61642987
> 10,000 engineers
> millions of lines of code in production
> 10 lines of Rust doing some menial task
> THEY USE RUST!
> Dropbox is almost entirely Rust!

We're almost reaching Haskell levels of faggotry here.

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>>61637146
>>61640189

Reminder that C is overtaken by Pajeets

>>61643049
> THEY USE RUST!
They do
> Dropbox is almost entirely Rust!
Said no one ever.
No need to get so upset, Dropbox uses Rust in production, whether that is a single function, small library or anything larger.

>>61634626
>Modules and no header files

Is this your 3rd day on the Internet? What does that even mean? Module is just a name some languages call libraries, C++ has libraries, they are just split up by interface and implementation, any other way is retarded.

>>61634489

You out of your fucking mind? C/C++ is going to be with us for at least another 30 years.

>>61643088
and their desktop client is PyQt5, Dropbox switches to whatever the latest fad is

>>61643112

> BUT WE WANT THE COOL NAME

>>61640219
The fact that you used typedef shows that you have no idea what you're talking about.

>>61644969
If there's a more elegant way I'd love to know it.

>>61645008
typedef is deprecated, and you didn't even use the C++14 typetrait aliases.

using constraint = std::enable_if_t<predicate()>;

>>61645089
Cheers.

>>61645008
Function pointers:

using ptr = int(*)(int);

Some constrained type:

template <typename T>
using CopyConstructible = std::enable_if_t<std::is_copy_constructible_v<T>, Tp>;

Rust is not going to be taken seriously until a large commercial application has been built with it, so far none has. Experimental projects at Mozzila dont count. There are only 2 or 3 books out on Rust, none are very good, so its very difficult to learn the language. If just one AAA game studio were to make a game with Rust, that might be enough to make it be taken seriously.

>>61645181
>There are only 2 or 3 books out on Rust, none are very good

This can't be stated enough. If they want Rust to be competitive Mozilla is probably going to have to pay one of the core contributors to write a book or a very detailed specification. Klabnik and the new woman don't understand the ownership and lifetime system even close to well enough to be writing books on Rust. It's such a critically important part of the language and the books on touch on it at a pathetically superficial level.

No serious company is going to use a language where the semantics of the lifetime and ownership system are best learned through trial and error.

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these fucking rust threads my god.
rust is shit that has no place other than to keep SJW's away from important languages like c/c++ so people with actual brains can use them without SJW cucks interfering

>>61645557
>c/c++

Opinion disregarded.

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>>61645635
thank for proving my point

>>61645557
>these fucking rust threads
I'd be fine with them if they were enforced as containment threads the same way /pol/ is.

I want Jimmy rustlers to leave /g/.

>>61645658
You only proved that you don't know C or C++ nor do you participate in any related community .

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>>61645687
are you just going to spout random shit because you can't accept that you proved my point anon ?

if so we can keep throwing shit back and forth like an indian food fight

I don't need anything rust claims to provide and the ecosystem around it is a garbage fire.

That and the enormous number of people telling me to ignore that it's a garbage fire and use it or I am a horrible person or retarded.

>>61645763
>anything rust claims to provide
Rust doesn't even provide what it claims to provide.

>>61645726
> C/C++

If you knew C or C++ or were a member of a related community you'd know what I'm talking about. You're a clueless role player though.

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>>61645660
tfw thread categories will never be a thing.
It could solve so much.

We could have a category for pc hardware (/guts/, /bst/, /csg/) threads. and programming language specific threads for threads like this.

>>61645773
Yes I know it's just a meme.
It's going to be a while longer than haskell did for the meme to die off.

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>>61645557
TIL : stating that rust babbies are excluded from something rustles their jimmies beyond belief.

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>>61645777
only been doing c for 6 years anon, but ok, if thats the only shit you can fling, ill leave you to it.

>>61645301
Guess what's never happening?
Exactly all of that shit.
The language will die off before it becomes stable enough for serious production environments given the rate of change in volatility.

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>>61645854
> C/C++

>>61634489
Most pajeet tier "programmers" don't even understand the issues that Rust is trying to solve.

Concurrency is pretty much one of greatest challenges there is. C programmers prefer to either completely ignore it, creating I/O blocking shit applications or buggy, deadlocking shit full of race conditions because the language kist wasn't made for parallelism.

Then there are people who use JavaScript and pay with performance.

Both solutions are terrible.
Rust is the future.

>>61634626
>Does not have C preprocessor
I assume you've never had to do multi-target programming. GCC-Ada actually added in a preprocessor to avoid having to make source level changes if you need to build for a different system.
I hate the C style include system as much as anyone, but a preprocessor is really annoying to work without.

>no header files
Headers are basically self documentation for the code. The way Ada handles them is pretty nice.

>>61646350
>Headers are basically self documentation for the code.
A function signature is self documentation. Self documentation is not a separate other thing you must write in order for your program to compile.

>>61646562
It's much easier to look through a 50 line file to see all of the externally visible function/variable declarations than to look through a 500 line file for it.
It's also easy for a dev to accidentally not mark a variable/function as static, but it's hard to accidentally put a variable/function into a header.

>>61647150
In Rust, if you leave comments with three slashes, its build system will automatically generate documentation with function signatures.


/// This function prints its argument
fn print_arg(arg: String) {
println!("{}", arg);
}

When the documentation is generated, it will look like here:
https://doc.rust-lang.org/std/iter/trait.Iterator.html#method.nth

>>61643112
There are differences in module system (see D) and dumb headerfiles and #includes (see C)

>>61648180
Having used Python, C++, Java, and Go, I'd say that Rust has the best docs UI out of anything I have ever used, hands down. Built-in search, auto-linking types, direct links to source code, natural commenting style, and all tooling built right into cargo

>>61648378
I think Nim's docs UI is closer to my taste but then again, it's just me.

Rust tooling is pretty comfy, the language itself isn't

>>61646002

> Concurrency is pretty much one of greatest challenges there is

Dataflow Paradigm solves the Concurrency problem.

>>61648180
> three slashes

Rust does have nice docs but three slashes on every line for doc comments is disgusting.

I like the R?

I dunno. I'm just a low level IT and programmer guy.


-fbfounder.Native

It looks like OR?


-fbfounder.Native