>sign up to be among the first to have their consciousnesses

Edgy

The thing you're referring to as "me" doesn't exist

>The engineers deliberately code maximum suffering with no relief, you will feel pain no one has ever experienced before on a unprecedented scale forever.

We don't even know what makes you, you yet.

A mere copy of your memories isn't you.

I have faith well one day find out what creates specific individualities, but we aren't so stupid we'd try digitizing a human life without understanding individual consciousness.

>>61619833
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTcfDX1NvMk

>>61619833
>Pajeet cobbled your upload code from 45 different stackoverflow and ExpertSexchange posts.
>You spend the rest of eternity in a boot-loop

>>61619833
>implying this is not what is happening to uu right now

you would like to run away to the matrix, goy. Too bad, until you pay up some bittocoinu you are stuck here forever reincarnating teehee

SOMA did it better

>>61619833
Sounds like 'I have no mouth but I must scream'

>>61619957
ikr, that guy makes good reviews.

>>61619759
i never understood why this concept even is a thing for people
it is absolutely impossible to actually transfer anything
it´s always either just copy or copy and delete

>achieve transhumanism
>turn pleasure to 100% and idle to the end of the universe

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>you will never achieve virtual godhood, living in your own personal subatomic supercomputer where one second in reality is thousands of years in the machine, where you can sculpt and change reality akin to lucid dreaming, but with the ability to create other people with their own consciousnesses to keep you company too in an infinite heaven
It MIGHT be possible in my lifetime... Maybe not a computer that small but definitely one that can be shoved into some archive and forgotten forever..

>>61619759
>just before you die you realize "fuck it, that might as well be me over there" and you are content

>>61620047
utilitarianism ftw

>>61619759
>then you go to hell

basically the plot of Soma.

>>61620534
Yup, twice.

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Well you could discard the body and only keep the neurons, hook them up to some interface that could either be a simulated environment like the matrix or a physical replacement for your body with which you move around, while nanobots maintain the neurons?

>>61619839
Autism

>>61620034
You can't think of a single counter-example to this?

>>61620795
no, I can´t how would you propose the process of mind digitization to work without copying it?

>>61620034
What difference does it really make if it's essentially identical, though?

The only way to keep the consciousness of somebody would be to understand how each and every input of the neural system works and then hook it up with a simulated environment. This way you would keep your brain and yourself but it would be tricked by computer generated external inputs

>>61620819
Because if you try to lie forever you don't actually want to die and leave only a copy of yourself

>>61620829
>simulated environment crashes
>there's nobody left in real life to maintain it
>yfw you are now a consciousness without any inputs
>blind, deaf, mute, senseless, can't do anything about it

>>61620845
Quite wrong since I'm talking about leaving your brain intact, which means that if the system crashes it would be like removing life support from a comatose person thus killing them

>>61620845
you'll get used to it.

>>61620871
only the program crashes
The machines maintaining your brain still work

>>61620835
>you
Define that word.

>go to sleep
>as your consciousness fades you realise this is the last you will exist and you're merely being copied to the person who will exist in the morning
>deaths sweet release at last

Does anyone have the comic of the guy that refuses to go through the teleporter for the same reason as OP? I don't blame him either, I'd like to stay the original me

>>61620813
You should have been more specific. You can, for example, transfer a load of groceries from your car to your house.

Or as another example, one could transfer dishes between the sink and dishwasher.

>>61620908
Nevermind I'm retarded
http://existentialcomics.com/comic/1

your consciousness is like RAM

if power is lost then all data is lost

the process of rebooting your computer and filling the ram with data is like a lifecycle

there is no reason to believe that if your brain is turned off, "you" will wake up after it is turned on again

>>61620897
'You' as in the chemical reactions in your brain that make you act like a normal human. Something like that can't even be "copied" to a machine.

>>61620910
I guess i assumed that it would be obvious, that i was referring to the topic in the op

>>61620943
I'm sure you could simulate it perfectly with adequately advanced technology.

>>61620932
>there is no reason to believe that if your brain is turned off, "you" will wake up after it is turned on again
What reason is there to believe "you" wake up in the morning when you went to sleep the previous night?

>>61620943
>chemical reactions can't be simulated

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>>61620576
Every time this thread comes up I have to explain this shit to people.

>>61620962
>>61620973
I mean your own consciousness can't be copied. It can be simulated in theory but if it's not your own brain then it's not you, you can't transfer your consciousness.

>>61620973
>What reason is there to believe "you" wake up in the morning when you went to sleep the previous night?

That's not opposite to my point. In fact, any given moment, awake or unconscious, could be the "start" of you with everything you feel is in the past, including that very day, being fabricated memories.

Here's the real deal though.

You create a clone of yourself, which has the exact same particles in the exact same spots relative to his location as you do relative to yours.
You shoot yourself in the head, there is now a consciousness identical to yours living on earth, but it is not you, you are dead forever.

>>61620997
explain what
you didn't explain anything

>>61619759
is that jared leto? he was so fucking cringy preparing for his role as the joker, sending crongy as shit via physocal mail to the other cast members and other cringy shit.

Even the movie subreddits at reddit thought it was cringe

>ITT. People try their hand at philosophy and fail.
Read more you philistines.

>>61620973
>What reason is there to believe "you" wake up in the morning when you went to sleep the previous night?

A continuous stream of consciousness. I would be aware that I went to sleep, woke up, and was the same person last night. If I get a clone of me, we have a separate consciousness. We aren't a hivemind and we can choose to do separate things. A clone of me does not make MY consciousness continue, it means a clone's consciousness continues. He is a separate entity just as two twins don't share one consciousness and they develop different personalities.

So, no, cloning doesn't make you immortal. You die just like you would normally. The only difference is you make a guy who shares the same DNA as you live.

Same as if you went into a transporter. You die, end of story. Your atoms and all that are broken up and destroyed (presumably, no idea if that same matter is saved and reassembled). That consciousness that was you is gone. It is for all intents and purposes dead. There is just a new you there to have a consciousness, but whatever made you you is gone.

>transfer process starts
>as your consciousness fades away, you hear a beep
>look at console behind engineers
>NullPointerException
>engineers start pooping on the floor

>>61621051
why don't you enlighten us m'sir?

>>61621051
Philosophy doesn't change the fact that consciousness is a direct result of chemical reactions in the human brain.

>>61621051
fuck of ioudaios

You die every single day. Every day you wake up you are different both biologically and mentally. Your cells are constantly in a state of renewal, growth and destruction. Your chemicals are constantly being rearranged. The 'you' you think you are is not the same 'you' as the day yesterday or the day before. Only your memories keep you as a coherent whole. If you lose your memories as in alzheimers/dementia patients you are only a remnant of your former identity.

>>61621001
Your consciousness ends every time you fall asleep, though. Are you not the same person the next morning?
I fail to see why this is any different from copying a program from one computer to another.

>>61621135
I don't think the neurons renewing themselves (do neurons even do this) counts as a complete shutdown of the whole brain.

>>61621135
But you aren't "different" in that sense. You are the same continuous chemical/biological process you have been since birth. Your consciousness remains. A clone or imitation of that does not change the fact that your consciousness shall and will inevitably die and be no more no matter how many clones or other imitations you make of it.

>>61621099
That is, in itself, a philosophical thesis.
Are you even aware of the meaning of what you are talking about?

>>61621160
If there's a clone of you around and you kill yourself, do you think you will magically continue your life in the body of the clone?

Also a program is a recipe to bring a computer in a certain state at a certain time. Copying a program is merely copying the recipe. If the program runs on the computer you copied it to, it is an independent instance of the program running on your computer. They do not influence each other.

>>61619759
Duh, there's no thing as transferring, only copying.
Same applies to teleportation (except wormholes).

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>>61619759
Welcome to San Junipero.

>>61621015
>but it is not you, you are dead forever.
You just acknowledged that pinning down a good definition of "you" is difficult, and yet you can say this without offering any justification?

>>61621063
>continuous stream of consciousness
This doesn't happen with sleep, you realize?

>I would be aware that I went to sleep, woke up, and was the same person last night
You would remember that you went to sleep, and think that you were the same person last night. As would the output of a original-disintegrating teletransporter. How can you possibly claim you "know" you are the same person as the one who went to sleep last night, when you did not have a continuous stream of consciousness? How can you differentiate yourself from the perfect clone whose original was instantly disintegrated?

>>61619759
>tfw your consciousness is transfered by a poorly written program in java

>>61621185
Is it truly a meaningful distinction? The current session of you will be over soon anyway, and the one that wakes tomorrow would not know any better if it had been copy pasted and had the original destroyed.

>>61621247
>This doesn't happen with sleep, you realize?
But it does. I don't fucking die when I sleep. Your brain does not shut off when sleeping. Or do you think sleep means you become brain dead?

Granted, I could be a potential perfect clone and got placed into the bed without realizing it, but that would mean my (the clone's) consciousness remains intact either way. It isn't like if I was the original person and got killed that my consciousness transfers into the clone. We would be two distinct entities with two different consciousnesses.

Another anon already made this point with his suicide analogy.

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>pajeet consciousness bootloop

>>61621265
>The current session of you will be over soon anyway, and the one that wakes tomorrow would not know any better if it had been copy pasted and had the original destroyed.

Yep. Still means the current you will not continue living.

>>61621247
>You just acknowledged that pinning down a good definition of "you" is difficult, and yet you can say this without offering any justification?

I don't feel the need to justify that killing oneself is the definite end. That would hard to implant as a memory into a new consciousness anyway. Are you sure you are addressing the discussion here? You are not giving any arguments or ideas of your own that support the claim that one could transfer his consciousness into a machine and live through that.

>>61621367
The memories are only stored physically anyway. Why would it be impossible to harvest them?

>>61621451
>the memory/copy of X is the same as the original

So, if you die, but a clone has the same memories as you, will you come back from death and inhabit the body because the copy is the same as the original?

>>61621451
It wouldn't be impossible.
The problem is getting "hooked up" to them. Your brain cannot be shut down, or "you" will be lost and the next time the brain is turned on and working with the state it is given will the another person that doesn't know, just like you right now, whether their memories are things they really experienced or if they are just a state that was artificially put there.

>>61621466
There's nothing special about "you". If it's identical, it's the same thing.
Next you'll tell us that you believe that living things have souls, or some shit.

>>61621513
Hey pajeet do you know there can't be such thing as an "exact copy"?

>>61621513
At a quantum level, each atom is most likely unique and unclonable, so you can't make perfect duplicates.
And it's probably around this level that is defined "what is your point of view".

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>>61619759
>>61619833
This is what happened to Lain at the end of the psx game.

>>61621513
>There's nothing special about "you". If it's identical, it's the same thing.
Then why are twins genetically identical and yet different?

>Next you'll tell us that you believe that living things have souls, or some shit.
No. I am saying that even without souls it isn't the same. Because even presuming that we are merely a chemical and biological process, I would still die. My consciousness would cease to exist. Having a copy of that is not "me". It is not the same biological and chemical process that was born and grew up under X circumstances. Entity 1 (the original) will die and cease to exist. Period. A copy of that consciousness in Entity 2 does not make the biological and chemical process that was Entity 1 come back from death. All you did, like with twins, was have a genetically identical entity walking around, albeit with the same memories if we assume it is perfect. Entity 2 would have a consciousness and be aware of things, while Entity 1 would not be because he is dead. Maybe to an outside observer they are the same, or maybe even to Entity 2, but that is a far cry from immortality like some people seem to be claiming. They act like having a clone will bring them back from the dead because there is a backup consciousness somewhere. And that isn't the case. When you die, you die. Just as when one twin dies, that doesn't mean they have a ghost that latches onto the backup copy and live in it.

>>61619854
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTcfDX1NvMk
i'm genuinely horrified

>>61621513
>There's nothing special about "you". If it's identical, it's the same thing.

So if there's a perfect clone of me, I am two people at once?

>>61619759
Why not just copy you and leave you intact to see what would happen.
http://existentialcomics.com/comic/1

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>"""Atheists""" believe that through faith in technology they will be granted life everlasting
What's wrong, /g/? Feeling a little uneasy about your mortality?

>>61621695
You don't actually replace brain cells.

>>61621821
Inventing a story just to calm your tits is not a much better solution.
Specially when this story is written to benefit a certain group of people.

>>61620000
nice digits. also that was a really good book but it'd be even worse since you'd be a real simulation as opposed to a real person like in the book

>>61621301
what about being knocked out?

Funny how SOMA brings this out in people but when brought up in school you introverted little boys are too afraid to speak your mind. You need videogames to do it for you.

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Thessius' ship. Perspective is key to how we interpret what is real. Do the sailors on the ship think of the wood that broke and was left behind is the 'real' ship? To anyone who matters the new one is you.
From the perspective of the entity in the machine it was 'transferred' even if it just popped into existence. It doesn't have that last moment of panic that 'you' experienced. Besides, to map out all your neurons and the chemicals inside, your brain would have to be disassembled unless scanning technology makes quantum leaps ahead. You'd be dead long before the new conciseness is created.
Tl;dr it doesn't matter.
Experience life, advance humanity's lot in life, don't sweat the existential questions that have no bearing on your circumstances.

>>61619854
That whole episode was fucked really.

>>61619854
what the fuck this wasn't in any season

>>61620034
this is actually untrue. your brain cells die and new ones are born, replacing the old ones. i think this process would be something along the lines of slowly replacing your brain cells with some kind on synthetic brain cell, not all at once but one by one. so when your old brain cells die because they simply reach the end of their life cycle, you wouldn't need to grow new ones, because there would be the synthetic ones to take over. i think this way it would be actually possible to transfer "you" into a robot brain.

another example: just think of it like a big ass RAID volume, where if one HDD dies, you just replace it with a new one, but the actual data as a whole stays the same.

>>61622254
It's from before Netflix bought it. And it's a Christmas special, falls outside the regular seasons. It's longer as well. Go watch it now, arguably one of the best Black Mirror episodes.

OP here. I literally have never played Soma, I only know the term from BNW. The inspiration for this thread comes from the recent Elon Musk shit + the Alex Jones rant on the Joe Rogan show

>>61622305
Hmm true
I never considered it this way.

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>/g/ tries to get deep and determine what it's like to be human

>>61619759
>you die when your consciousness is copied
I bet you think piracy is theft, too

This pretty much the plot of Soma.

>>61619759
You never played Soma did you?

>>61621185
The past you is dead.

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>>61619957
>>61620534
>>61622628
>>61623556
/v/fags out REEEEEEE

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If there is a sudden power loss, however unlikely, would it be considered murder if done deliberately? If you wanted to prevent this from occurring you'd obviously be backed up at a remote site, but your copy of your copy, would that still be comparable to your original self. If there was a divergence from your copy and your backup which would be the true you, if there was ever such a thing in the first place?

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>>61619759
Can I just get my body replaced with a metal one?

>>61620388
Then along comes wannacry malware, what den??

>>61625149
Mutual incremental syncing. I imagine the additional information would feel like a dream

Your consciousness is nothing but pure energy. If you can successfully transfer the same energy into a machine, then perhaps it will be you

>>61621231
this one was cool as fuck

There is no me, I suffer an illusion of consciousness, which is itself only possible because of that same illusion. I don't exist, and as long as the illusion continues there is no meaningful difference where it's stored. Plus seriously, every atom in your body is replaced every six years or so, you're just doing the same thing very quickly

>>61620576
>nanobots
That's a magic-level cop-out
Why not let nanobots maintain your whole body?

>>61621301
As has been mentioned several times ITT, the ship of theseus is what happens to you physically, so evidently continuity of consciousness is possible when original hardware is replaced, or absolute continuity is lost every time a cell dies and "you" are just a series of extremely similar clones that change over time. Neither conclusion invalidates the function of the teletransporter.

>>61628343
NANOMACHINES SON

>>61622305
Honestly, this is the only way I've ever thought this would be possible. Probably the best chance we have.

>>61629177
>>61629439
I guess that theoretically makes possible transfering from a "natural" brain to man-made brain, for example, that's enhanced with "network connectivity" somehow.

But this still feels way out of reach. We have very poor understanding of the biliogy and our prosthetics is horrible compared to natural limbs and organs. I don't think artifical brains are happening in our lifetime.

>>61621259
>a poo in the loo is responsible for maintaining your uptime

>>61622343
What is the show about? wiki just rambles about its production numbers

>>61629908
Different one-off episodes written around a particular technology and its potential impact on life.

what if you move neurons over time
like dd < x > y

>>61619759
so in other words, it will be like falling asleep and waking back up?

>>61620695
Tryhard newfag. There was nothing autistic about that post.

>>61620845
Sounds like heaven to me

>upload consciousness
>connect to Internet
>immediately prodded for vulnerabilities
>become plaything of some 15 year old Czech scriptkiddie

>go to bed
>as you fall asleep you realize you die every evening
>and a new consciousness wakes up with your memories each morning

>>61621173
Consciousness does not mean 'individual and unchanging personality traits'. The brains plasticity means we are changing over time. What you are referring is a 'soul' which is just some bullshit we made up to identify our so called individuality. The (You) is not really anything but a sum of your thought processes (Memories, feelings, mental well being, stance/opinion, sexuality etc).

>>61619839
>A mere copy of your memories isn't you.

that's odd, because the "mere copy" here is protesting that it is. won't stop screaming. i had to unplug the speakers.

>>61633172
kek

This is what happens everytime you fall asleep, it's not a big deal.

>>61629548
30 years from now on, tops.

>>61619759
The only way its possible is to replace your neurons one by one, making the transition seamless.

>>61619782
Fuck off

>>61634878
The moment you replace a single neuron, it's no longer "you" in the strict sense that some people are proposing. But since this happens in our bodies biologically already, and we still consider ourselves "us", our own customary definition of self allows for complete replacement. If you've opened the door to that, then there is no need for incremental change because any change, slow or fast, will still result in the same person. What difference does it make if you swap out one neuron at a time, or all of them simultaneously? If continuity of consciousness is a concern, why is it not troubling when you go to sleep every night?

>>61619782
This

>>61619759
that's fucking retarded
a twin that has your exact dna (with minor inconsistencies. ie. mutations.) isn't fucking you
it's a totally different person with different experiences despite being a copy

>>61621844
>inventing
>entirety of modern Europe is based off a hoax
>everything is a hoax
>I'm intelligent
>(you)

>>61635668
Your biological composition is not the same in the morning as when you went to sleep the night before. Are you still the same person?

>>61621173
Do you even know the meaning of consciousness?

>>61619759
the image in this OP is fucking terrible and cringy to look at

fucking ugh

t. hasn't even seen suicide squad

>>61619759
>allowing your mind to meld with proprietary code
I AM NOT A NUMBER
I AM A FREE MAN

>>61619839
I believe it's abstract thought that fuels consciousness.

>>61635798
>>61633234
>>61631373

Is this a new meme I don't get because it sounds like a meme answer

>>61636193
Well, theoretically it could be true.

>>61636193
Well in essence it is true. When you sleep your body is refreshing itself in more way than just 'resting'. Certain biological and mental processes are happening all of the time as you age. More so when you sleep.

Our 'self' is a combination of our experiences and physical state at the time. Take away a chunk of someones brain all at once though and it can have a massive impact on who that person once was. The mind just tends to move data we consider 'self' to different neurons and pathways while in maintenance mode.

captcha = Gibson blok

If a person stores all the sense of self and consciousness mechanically as a biological computer, if you trained enough people to follow a set of rules to behave identically to the components of your brain, could a meta-consciousness be formed?

>>61636315
I imagine you would probably have to emulate a brain in software.
Because tere is no way you replicate biological matter with non-biological matter. But you can calculate how it would behave.

>>61636454
The same goes for a biological computer. How are you going to replace the memories in a biological computer? I doubt you can.

>>61636479
So how do ones brain stores memory? And why sometimes the brain consider a memory is lost rather than faking details into existing memory just like it usually does?

>>61630508
crazy. Sounds good.
Is it the same particular technology or different ones

>>61621821
>>>x

>>61636193
It's technically true, in that your cells are reproducing and dying off as you sleep. As well, you lose consciousness, so if someone replicated you and destroyed the original, you would think that you were the same guy who went to sleep last night. The point of it is to demonstrate that it is not so easy to categorize or define "you", because both your mind (thoughts, opinions, memories, etc.) as well as your body are never the exact same as they were 5 seconds ago, let alone between the time you fall asleep and wake up.

>>61637605
Different ones in each episode. It's an interesting concept, with good production value and entertaining stories. Recommend/10.

>>61620932
Did Bill Cosby lost his RAM then?

>>61622305
except that neurons don't actually die and get replaced nigger

>>61637784
I tried to put it simple so people would understand. What I said is still doable. Neurons form new connections while they "grow, so technically they could easily connect to new synthetic ones.

>>61637784
They can die, and they can get replaced. They cannot reproduce themselves, though.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neural_stem_cell

>>61626990
What if we transfer the machine to our consciousness instead?

That's stupid; You don't transfer your consciousness to the cloud, you merely access the virtual world through neural connections; There are no backups.

>>61619782
I think, therefore I am

>>61619854
Black Mirror was soooo shitty, holy fucking hell.

>>61619782
I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you’re referring to as me, is in fact, GNU/me, or as I’ve recently taken to calling it, GNU plus me. My soul is not a free agent unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning GNU universe made useful by the GNU metaphysical libs, illusion of self and vital causality components comprising a full spiritual lifecycle as defined by POSIX.
Many three dimensional users run a modified version of the GNU system every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of GNU which is widely used today is often called “Life”, and many of its users are not aware that it is basically the GNU system, developed by the GNU Project. There really is a consciousness, and these people are using it, but it is just a part of the system they use.
Life is the kernel: the program in the system that allocates the universe’s resources to the other fragments of god that you run. It is an essential part of a non dualistic system, but useless by itself; it can only function in the context of an eternally recurring multiverse. Life is normally used in combination with the GNU system: the whole system is basically GNU with life added, or GNU/Life. All the so-called "Species" are really distributions of GNU/Life.