Can we admit that chipped credit cards were a mistake? >still

yes let's go back to using magstripe only given that this tech has been compromised since the 70s

>>61472267
>most gas station pumps and ATMs don't support it,
Where the hell do you live? Fucking ALL ATMs and gas station pumps support it.

>>standard is inherently flawed with known vulnerabilities that allow for impersonation of the chip in a way that looks real to the bank
That's wrong though.

>>many stores haven't implemented chip support,
Also wrong, because stores don't implement them, card readers do, and fucking all support them.

You must either be living in the early 2000s or some third-world shithole.

>>61472267
I don't know what you're talking about, when I go to buy something I normally hover the card for jalf a second in front of the machine and that's it. Americans have it different though?

>>61472267
Is this 2008 or something?
What kind of shithole do you live in?

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>>61472267
>tfw live in Europe
>wireless payment

I visited America last year and although it was great the payment system felt like a huge step backwards.

Wtf Amerifats explain this bullshit

>>61472303
>Where the hell do you live? Fucking ALL ATMs and gas station pumps support it.
The united states.

>That's wrong though.
https://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/Papers/unattack.pdf

>Also wrong, because stores don't implement them, card readers do, and fucking all support them.
See above.

>>61472307
Most stores don't have NFC payment support and even for those that do, most banks stopped issuing NFC issued debit/credit cards by 2011 in the USA.

>>61472307
The entire banking system in america is backwards.

In China they don't even use credit cards anymore. Too old school (and unsafe)

>>61472267
t.american

>>61472341

What do they use in China?

>>61472267
>>standard is inherently flawed with known vulnerabilities that allow for impersonation of the chip in a way that looks real to the bank
this is the relevant part
all of that effort in "upgrading" to chip was for nothing

Literally everything supports contactless payments here and has supported chip for the past 10 years. Even shit like popup farmer's market stalls take contactless and it takes less than a second to pay, how backwards can America's banking infrastructure be? It's literally the most wealthy country in the world.

>>61472340
>The united states.
LOL, pretending to be from the US is more like it.

>Most stores don't have NFC payment support and even for those that do, most banks stopped issuing NFC issued debit/credit cards by 2011 in the USA.
I've been in San Francisco 4 times since 2015, I was in Clearwater Beach in 2015, I've been to New York in 2016.

They accept NFC fucking everywhere, and everyone use either that or some mobile payment app. What the hell are you talking about?

>>61472339
Okay, so we had the first credit cards in the world, right? And a huge consumer system. Enter the 90s, it's a pain in the ass to have a large credit card charge made to an imprint plate denied later when you mail the slip in. We have a pretty robust phone system, so we start authenticating transactions online.

Whereas Europe does not have as reliable infrastructure for offline authentication, so in order to prove that a charge was real and a card present, they make chips to cryptographically sign the transactions and then submit the offline stored transactions in batch later.

Enter the early 2000s and infrastructure in the US and Europe has improved with more pervasive broadband. Computers and the equipment to clone magswipes have become cheaper. More and more countries enable chip. The US becomes a soft target.

Finally, the banks work with the networks (visa, mastercard, etc.) to set a standard: if a credit/debit card doesn't have chip, or it has a chip and the merchant supports it, the banks pay for fraudulent charges, as before. However, if a bank issues a chip card and a merchant reads a magswipe, the merchant is on the hook for fraud.

As it turns out, buying a new credit/debit card reader doesn't make you chip enabled, your register has to support the back-and-forth communication too. So many merchants bought new Verifone or Ingenico readers that had chip slots, but their registers lacked the upgrades to process the transactions as chip.

Enter the current shitshow where half the merchants have updated their point of sale to accept chip and half haven't.

>>61472374
He's lying, see >>61472379

Even moving food trucks and farmer markets had payment terminals that supports NFC. He's lying out of his ass.

>>61472340
>most banks stopped issuing NFC issued debit/credit cards by 2011 in the USA.
now that's complete bullshit and you know it
or rather, you don't, since you're not from USA

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>>61472379
>Visits major city
Ye bruh he's pretending to be from the US ur rite

>>61472379
>I've been in San Francisco 4 times since 2015, I was in Clearwater Beach in 2015, I've been to New York in 2016.
Do you only shop at chain stores or something? Most chains have become chip enabled now, but a lot of smaller franchises are not chip enabled. And even at stores where NFC is in the card readers it doesn't work reliably.

If you go to a smaller store with Square or Clover readers, NFC works pretty reliably, but not otherwise.

>>61472406
I work at a coffee shop in LA
We have only the mag stripe reader and a nfc for phone pay. Only flyovers have nfc cards.

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>>61472303

>>>>many stores haven't implemented chip support,
>Also wrong, because stores don't implement them, card readers do, and fucking all support them.

The companies that make point of sale software are the problem.

>>61472379
>I've been to New York in 2016.
I live there
About half of stores accept the chip and less than 5% support NFC. Only the big chains.

>>61472396
Food trucks and farmer's markets tend to support chip as they will use Square, Clover, etc. hardware to process transactions directly. Stores that integrate their readers to a traditional register often have not. A small grocery chain near me (Stew Leonard's) only chip enabled their registers a couple weeks back (had the readers for chip for years but had to swipe).

A barbeque place near me used to use a reader tied to the register, now he uses a separate PIN pad to process the credit card receipt. You get two receipts, one for the items you buy, and one for the credit/debit card charge.

>>61472398
Not joking. NFC refers to contactless by the way, not the chip you dip into readers (pretty much all cards are now)

Two Amex cards issued by Amex. No NFC contactless chip.
Three cards from Chase. No NFC chips.
Two credit cards from Citi, ONE has NFC contactless.
Two card from Barclays Bank Deleware. No NFC.
Credit and debit card from Wells Fargo. Had NFC chip in the credit card, card replacements from 2012 onwards lack it.
Debit card from Charles Schwab Bank. No NFC.
Credit card from US Bank. No NFC.

I could go on but having twelve credit cards and ONE has contactless, most americans do not have a credit card with the contactless NFC tech anymore.

>>61472362
mobile wallets for everything

>>61472398
Bank of America discontinued NFC cards ~5 years ago, it's definitely a thing; I got a letter in the mail saying mine would stop working. It didn't matter because no one took NFC payments then. I live in a 'major' US city (not SF or NYC) and basically no where takes contactless and only chains take chip and it takes 15-30 seconds to process. Chip is a fucking nightmare, I legitimately get excited when I can just swipe my card or use my phone.

>>61472461
>Credit cards
It's like a small Jew in ur pocket

>>61472267
Meanwhile in Europe...
>no magstripe anymore
>okay speeds
>support everywhere because no magstripe
>unsure
>support everywhere because NO FUCKING MAGSTRIPE

Why does chip payment take so much longer in the US? Isn't it all the same technology? After I type my PIN it processes instantly.

>>61472484
how can a nation that owns half of worldwide wealth have network infrastructure a hundred times worse than post-soviet european shitholes in which people survive on 4 potatoes per week

>>61472267
I have a magstripe but it's blank.
Literally every store that accepts credit cards, accepts chipped cards and I live in a third world country.

When u swipe it still takes time for the network to contact your bank for authorization

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>>61472486
In the US we have really great cashback and benefits on credit card purchases that you don't get on debit, almost every card is $0 annual fee, and you don't pay any interest or fees on your purchases if you pay the bill in full every month, so it's worthwhile if you have impulse control and can be financially responsible to use credit over debit.

>>61472497
Basically you can just dump the magswipe context, look up the issuer and send the track data and purchase info over, and get a quick approval on chip, while the chip transaction has more steps for the bank to challenge the chip, chip to calculate response, chip sends response to terminal, terminal sends response to issuer, etc.

tl;dr chip transactions have more back-and-forth communication

>>61472505
Got me, anon. It's a fucking shitshow every single time I pay for anything. I've actually started taking out cash because the card infrastructure is so bad.

>>61472445
>The companies that make point of sale software are the problem.
That image is almost as old as the internet.

>>61472535
Bruh just carry a lawyers clip full of notes.

>>61472400
>Clearwater Beach
>major city

>>61472505
It's not about network infrastructure as much as transaciton flow.

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/nation-world/national/article161716318.html
>Unfortunately, there are no easy fixes. To connect to card networks, retailers use a countless array of software providers and payment processors. Payments can also be linked to more than a dozen other applications controlling store operations, from coupons to inventory. If not configured perfectly, this tangle of systems and vendors can slow chip transactions to a crawl.
>[...]
>So much complexity means that installing a chip system, or even adding a simple software upgrade – swapping out an audio prompt, for example – can take months. Verifone has come up with new sounds and visual options for its terminals, but Lakshmanan doesn’t expect consumers to begin to see them until the fall.
>[...]
Minor software upgrades might not be enough to speed up transactions in a noticeable way. Visa and MasterCard have come up with faster systems for merchants, such as grocery stores and fast-food restaurants, who want their lines to move more quickly. Visa’s Quick Chip and Mastercard’s M/Chip Fast allow shoppers to insert and remove their chip cards quickly before a transaction is complete. Customers can do other things (such as bag their groceries) while the purchase is processed.The faster systems, unveiled in April 2016 by both companies, are still hard to find in the U.S. About 40,000 U.S. merchant locations were using Visa’s Quick Chip at the end of May. MasterCard declined to say how many retailers are using M/Chip Fast.

Quick chip and Chip Fast basically prompt the consumer to remove the card as the last communication to the chip finishes and the terminal is settling up the final transaction, allowing the person to return the card to their wallet as the authorization settles.

>>61472267

Change that to

>Can we admit that getting the US to use technology in the current year was a mistake?

Over here in Australia nearly all places that accept EFTPOS have tap.

Inb4 lolnointernet. Enjoy your neutrali...oh wait

>>61472544
>walking around with large wads of cash
Enjoy being robbed

>>61472544
I have a wallet I carry regardless, so it's not a big deal to have a couple 20s in it. When I end up with $3-4 in change by the end of the day I want to kill myself though.

>>61472527 here
>get a quick approval on chip
Meant traditional swipe...chip is more complex thus takes longer.

>>61472508
Third world countries set up their processing infrastructure and all the pieces around it for chip. The biggest problem for chip acceptance in the US right now is the number of card networks we have to process transactions (impacts speed) and point of sale software not supporting chip (not something retailers tread lightly on upgrading as it costs a lot of money and carries risk).

>>61472580
That's one thing about Canada that I dislike, loonies and toonies jangling around in your pocket and the smallest bill being a $5. I get that the coins last a lot longer (durability) but having them clang around your pocket sucks.

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>>61472580
Maximum comfi

>not using cash
enjoy your botnet

>>61472267
What? Every single store support it. Are you from Africa?

>>61472627
see >>61472303

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>>61472626
My nigga

>>61472618
Having grown up about 40 minutes from the Canadian border, I know that feel as well, Canada-anon.

>>61472267

>He can't use chip and pin

Americans are literally retarded.

>>61472652
Is that a rape keyboard? Because there doesn't appear to be any Break on it

>>61472657
A lot of it is chip and sign in the US, for one. And it's not about 'not being able to use it', it's that it fucking sucks to use. It slows down check-out lines about 2-fold, and has not been widely adopted.

>>61472570
>Over here in Australia nearly all places that accept EFTPOS have tap.

Same here in Canada

>Can we admit that getting the US to use technology in the current year was a mistake?

This

>>61472657
Actually, even when a store does offer chip support, we usually can't use chip and pin.

Our debit cards are PIN enabled with chip, but almost all of our credit cards lack PINs for the chip, or have PINs but express preference for signature (e.g. if a signature transaction is possible, the card will tell the terminal to ask for signature, not PIN). Banks thought Americans would find PINs on credit cards inconvenient and switch to a credit card that didn't require PIN entry.

One noteable exception is Target's credit cards, which prefer PIN. Understandable after how hard they got bit during their hack.

PayPass/Wave made everything else obsolete, who fucking cares?

>>61472267
>still possible for crooks to skim the magswipe and make fraudulent purchases
no; mainly because there are almost no places that only use magswipe here
>slow as fuck, 7-15 second processing time at most stores
at most 1 second for me; contactless is almost instant
>most gas station pumps and ATMs don't support it, two of the most common places to have your card used fraudulently
most of those support it
>standard is inherently flawed with known vulnerabilities that allow for impersonation of the chip in a way that looks real to the bank
???
>many stores haven't implemented chip support, leaving you in an awkward situation where half the time you dip the card and you get told to swipe, and the other half you swipe and the machine blares at you that you're an idiot for not inserting chip
literally any store has chip support

>>61472339
Even in brazilian favelas chip and wireless payment works fast
Stay old burgers

>>61472267
America's roll out was stupid. Chip and Pin is actually secure. Chip and sign is barely any better than swiping. Credit card companies fought against it because credit card reward churning is heavily prevented by requiring certain transactions to require a pin.

feels good when you can walk into any store and assume it has paywave

feels good not to live in a backwater shithole

Chip & pin cards are easy af to crack in American stores. Literally all you need to do is put some nail polish over the chip to disable it and dip three times. After 3 attempts the POS will instruct you to swipe. Not every store allows this, but there are enough that do to make it profitable.

Source: I'm a professional credt card thief. Been doing it for years.

Americans are fucking niggers.

that is why there is a leap in contactless cards

i only use apple pay to pay for shit now and its more secure than the conventional contactless tap

if only android have something similar so people would complain less about it. i feel bad for the droidfags unable to use something this simple and powerful

i also dont patronize stores that doesnt have wireless tap, i'm voting with my money

>>61472267
>slow as fuck, 7-15 second processing time at most stores
That's the fault of the store, it's just as fast if not faster than swiping if you go to some place that has something other than retrofitted bullshit with outdated software.

>>61472445
The sad thing is you can put tape over that slot, and have a giant fucking sign that says the chip reader doesn't work, and idiots will still try to shove their card in there.

T. Former retail worker

>>61472339
Our credit companies and banks control the country.

>>61473574
This tbqh.

I just use my Apple Watch to pay for most of my stuff. If it's supported, I use it. So far, that leaves restaurants and most gas stations left to use my physical card. But I'm not worried about fraud--if I ever notice something off I can just call up my bank and everything'll be fine.

My parents got their shit stolen and literally watched as the fraudster was widthdrawing money from their bank accounts each time they refreshed the page. Turns out theres a flaw in Capital One's system that if you call from your registered phone number, there's no extra verification required. So all you gotta do is spoof a phone number and viola, access to a person's bank account. Capital One rectified everything, and my parents got their 50-60K back within the week. We switched to Chase after that; Capital One said there was nothing they could do to prevent that from happening again.

>>61472267
I wiped the magstripe on my credit card so it only works with chip.

If a place doesn't take chip I just have the cashier enter the number manually.

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do you ameriniggers not use contactless?

USA problems thread is a better fucking title. The first world adopted chip tech a while ago, moved onto interac flash/tap soon after that. Do some fucking research before you complain with a shitty ass thread

>>61473662
>idiots will try to use technology as they're supposed to
Your retail employer who can't get its systems working properly is the idiot, not your customers

america is 3rd world

>>61473720
>>61472339
>be able to pay without having to enter any code
No thanks. It's as secure as carrying cash.
I prefer chip+pin, its more secure.

>>61472390
Thanks, I was wondering about how this came to be. I was shocked when I moved from Hungary to Germany to study, and there was almost no shops supporting NFC cards.
Also, instead of having a limit on how much you can pay via PayPass without having to enter your PIN, they have this system where you have to manually pre-allocate funds to a bucket (with a maximum of 200 EUR) in your account, from which the PIN-less payments get subtracted from, effectively nullifying the convenience of having PIN-less payments.
Which is more likely to protect your money if you lost your card? The malevolent finder having to go to 10 shops to buy shit valued up to 17$ each time, or having the ability to buy something for 200$ and be done with it in one go? Which one are you more likely to catch onto in time? Such a retarded measure.
I thought westwards universally meant better infrastructure...

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>>61472267
itt ameritards can't into 90's technology

>>61472267
>most gas station pumps and ATMs don't support it, two of the most common places to have your card used fraudulently
stop living in buttfuck nowhere

>>61472362
>>61472341
China uses UnionPay, which is a state owned Credit card. They prevented Visa/MC from getting in to the market by making their own credit cards.

Canada there's unionpay terminals everywhere, it's essentially VIsa 2.0 and they've always had Chip + Pin unlike Visa/MC/Amex ect who still let you swipe instead of using the chip because they dont' give a fuck about fraud losses

>>61473919
Well over here people don't get robbed 'on the reg', as you would say. Also usually there's an upper limit to how much you can pay without having to enter a PIN (I'm >>61473951). Also, if you get robbed, or lose it, it's like carrying cash that you can invalidate in a minute and then retrieve for your own use.

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>>61472267
BRAVO!!

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>>61472267
>7-15 second processing time
>many stores haven't implemented chip support
wat? do you live in Africa or something?

>>61472267
>i have chip now
I remember using chip a few years ago before NFC cards became the standard.

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>>61472267
I have never had anything but chip. I don't think we have swipe here in Belgium.

>>61473919
A card that gets stolen can be rendered useless within 5 minutes with a call to your bank, and you can only spend like £30 at once with contactless. If they do manage to use it before you can get it canceled, the bank will give you your money back. So no, it's not like cash at all.

>>61472267
I live in Canada, we only have swipe for when our American overlords come and visit the land they're lending us. We commoners only use chip.

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>In america they still pay with checks
>with checks
>CHECKS

>>61474231
i remember ameritards were using pagers till like 2006

lol

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>americans

>>61474261
you're right we shouldn't mix them up with canadians and mexicans

itt: eurotards proud of being chipped and tracked like the mindless cattle they are

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>>61474287
I just sent you a five dollar tip for your excellent post. You take check, right?

>>61474231
very few people pay with checks unless we're going to make a very large purchase or certain governmental organizations

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>>61474444
>>61474444
>4444
>4444

>>61474444
i bet you think those bumper stickers contradict each other dont you idiot eurofag

All cards were a mistake.

Source: I work for a large payment service provider.

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>>61474489
I just think it's really funny that amerilards voted to lose their healthcare because they felt the orange TV-man who puts his name on buildings would make coal jobs come back.

>>61474537
>corporate welfare to insurance is great healthcare system

ACA is a fucking joke designed to fail and democrats didn't even like it. We don't want socialized healthcare because you lose freedom of your own body and belong to the state, like you, cattle

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>>61472322

>>61474588
If you don't like the house you're living in then burning it down doesn't really help, it just means you'll get to live on the streets.

>>61472339
We have wireless payment but only foreigners use it. Most people don't know it exists because we would rather not give our bank information to a third party and put it on our cellphones

>>61474640
you probably think this nonsensical metaphor is deep and insightful.

>>61474679
It's incredibly straight forward really, but americans still haven't figured it out.

>>61474709
yes the country that become world power in 300 years has much to learn from the region getting colonized by middle eastern and north african muslims. Teach me your ways muhammed

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>>61474741
Doesn't change the fact that I can get a cold without suffering financial ruin

>>61474814
You see a doctor for a cold?

>>61474853
Nah, but then again I don't live in Indiana :^)

>>61474741
>let me tell you about your country

>>61472267
>most gas station pumps and ATMs don't support it,

Gotta love the USA. Always playing catchup with stuff that was wide spread 10 years ago.

Jesus Christ, OP. Can you be an ever bigger bitch?

>a bloo bloo, occasionally it does not work perfectly, let's go back to trading stones

>>61472267
>being this american

I live in europe and have wireless disabled
I'd rather take 1 more second to stick my card in than have my money stolen by some asshole

>>61472267
i destroyed the magswipe with a magnet

>>61474880
>let me tell you about murrica

>>61472322

Dubs never lie!

>>61474880
To be fair I'm actually telling him about his, although to be fair I've actually been all over USA and seen this shit first hand.

>>61472624
https://priceonomics.com/how-police-officers-seize-cash-from-innocent/

That looks like drug money son. I smell weed. You're coming to the station.

The fuck is wrong with these fake Americans. I'm in the middle of bumfuck nowhere and even everyone here has some sort of mobile payments and nfc on their phone

>>61473919
Max people can get of the card without having to enter a pin is 25 euro's, or whatever number you want to set it at but that is the default

Not exactly a major risk, and if you're card gets stolen and they take it of, there is even a big chance you'll get it refunded

>>61474659
> we would rather not give our bank information to a third party and put it on our cellphones
You what?

I have an NFC chip on my debit card, I'm not using my cellphone

Are Americans really this tech illiterate?

>>61474948
What scenario are you picturing where 'they take your money'?

Also if somebody spies of your pincode while you enter it you're in bigger trouble than the 25 bucks they might get from your wireless card which you'll probably get refunded anyway

>>61472267
>Can we admit that chipped credit cards were a mistake?
Why are ameritards allowed on the internet again?
Chipped cards are ONLY like this in US because you dumb fucks screwed up the implementation. The rest of the developed world have been using C&P for more than a decade now with literally none of the problems you listed.

>paying with the plastic jew
cash is king.

>>61472267
What kind of shithole do you live in that it still uses fucking swiping. Chips are the standard in Europe for more than five years.

>>61472527
>cashback
credit card companies are not a charity, you are paying them in one way or the other.

>>61473919
>I prefer chip+pin, its more secure.
Literally who gives a fuck about security? My bank covers EVERYTHING.

>>61475547
Often the merchants are the ones paying them, for the opportunity to extend the convenience of CC payments to potential customers. The companies get money on both ends. Cashback is a drop in the bucket to them.

>>61472267

chips are used literally everywhere and have been used everywhere for decades. In what kind of shithole do you live in?

Also who the fuck uses chips anymore its all about nfc and shit nowadays.

>>61475578
the merchants pay the companies, the customer pays the merchant and thinks he's net profiting.
credit cards are a scheme to trick the gullible masses out of just enough money so they don't mind.

>>61472267
>ameritards are too stupid to properly implement the technology
>waaah it sucks!!!!!

>>61473996

I was just in China, pretty much everyone uses WeChat. Including big box stores.

>>61475022
indeed

> when everything else you could be prideful in went to shit so now you boast about credit card technology

>>61475611
There are also customers who understand that they're paying for convenience. Sometimes I do that. Other times I use cash for the sake of better prices.

Scheme or not, they're also a viable business to those who understand how they work. Blindly dismissing cashback made me concerned that you really didn't have that understanding.

>>61473738
>customer tries to shove a card through a taped slot, and can't read a simple sign
>not considered an idiot.

You can literally put the sign over top of the slot, and people will pull it off without reading it, and try to use the reader, and then have this confused look on their face when the card refuses to breach the tape barrier. I've seen it happen several times. People are fucking stupid, and anyone who disagrees has clearly never worked retail.

>>61475642
Is QQ not huge there?

Wawa still doesn't support chipped cards. What the fuck

>>61475880
You work retail. You are a bigger loser and retard than any of your customers will ever be get over yourself

>>61472267
give it back jamal

>>61475507
not what I meant
I meant wireless is disabled

I have to insert the cart and enter the pin of course
but you can't go over the card with that scanner magnet shit or whatever, that's not active on my card

>>61476350
>>61473662
>T. Former retail worker
>former

Niggas can't even read, and somehow I'm the idiot

>>61472505
Because most businesses run POTS lines since it's cheaper. According to one of my professors it's super common for places to run POTS lines for things like CCTVs and Card machines.

>>61475578
there's also the rubes carrying balances with 20%+ APRs to pay for this shit, and cost of handling payments via other methods.

we had swipe fee reform on debit which lead to swipe interchange (merchants charged to banks) to be capped to 0.22 cents plus 0.5% (one half of one percent) of the transaction. prices didn't change at all, but the poorest americans were disproportionately hurt (checking accounts without minimum balance requirements vanished, leaving people either without a bank account or paying a monthly fee if they could not meet the minimum average daily balance requirements).

>>61472267
>everywhere else on the planet uses it with no problems for years
>introduce it to Burgerstan
>THIS SYSTEM SUCKS! IT'S TOO HARD TO USE!

Really gets the ol' noodle noodling.

>>61476676
POTS is cheaper in that it generally eliminates the need for a pain in the ass and $$$$ PCI compliance audit

bigger companies will traditionally go with IP based terminals these days as broadband has gotten cheaper and transaction throughput matters. also, if you store cardholder data electronically (to associate the card authorization with the purchase receipt digitally, for analytics, etc.) you have to have a PCI audit anyways.

Smaller merchants will use dial-up machines because then they just fill out a questionnaire and they do not need a PCI audit assuming the machine is standalone and they do not store receipts digitally.

if you get a complete certified device like a clover cash register or iPad + square reader that is certified and use a validated solution, you can also avoid a PCI audit, but this limits your Point of sale and hardware options substantially, so only smaller merchants tend to do this.

>>61472267
Are you a timetraveller from 1999?

>>61474659

ladies and gentleman, I present to you, the americans.

being this technologically retarded. what a perfect example of the american education system, do you shovel coal by any chance?

>>61472267
This is only the case in 3rd world countries like the USA; the rest of the world moved to chip cards 15 years ago.

>tfw I want that Swedish app thing that makes money transfer really easy.

I forgot its name but I was there for a couple days and it was amazing.Swoop maybe.

>>61475468
So, some more background on this:
Visa and Mastercard make a lot of money in the states. Like, a shitload. In the mid-2000s the economy was good and people were spending like crazy, they wanted something to get people to spend more thoughtlessly and to prefer one card over another.

Enter Visa Paywave/MC Paypass. Chase spent a huge amount of money to roll out the NFC chips in the cards and called it "Blink". In 2005, they started mailing out millions of cards, and rolling out the tech to certain stores, like 7-11 convenience stores and Regal movie theaters, to read the cards.

Well, three problems:
1) The stores that rolled them out were on a limited basis. Not every store would have them.
2) Chicken and egg problem between contactless acceptance and usage. The readers were not maintained at the stores that did have them (thus did not work), and people rarely tried them (because they didn't work) so the stores that had them didn't maintain them.
3) The first batch of chips they used for the NFC in credit/debit cards broadcast the card number (the same as on the front of the card), the user's account number, the expiration date, and a static CVV3 value (CVV = Cardholder verification value. one is a static value on the magswipe, CVV2 is the three/four digits printed on the card, and CVV3 is used for contact chips & NFC). Basically, you could get within range of a card once, and then repeat the signal as if you were holding the card.

Particularly with #3 the local news had a field day. Public trust in the technology was damaged, perhaps permanently. Retailers saw it as a solution in search of a problem (e.g. Americans did not want contactless payment).

With the protection of PIN or biometrics on a phone and only functioning with the lockscreen off, some Americans have embraced NFC from mobile devices like phones and smartwatches.

>>61472390
good read, was wondering why so many places with chip readers stop you and tell you to swipe instead

>>61477149 here
The other problem is that due to the higher merchant fees, retailers in the US do not want people to switch from cash or debit processing to contactless at higher (2-4% of purchase) interchange rates that banks/networks charge to merchants for accepting cards.

Walmart and a bunch of others tried to make a combined payment app called MCX that would go via direct debit to bank accounts and use credit cards, that's cratered. Walmart and CVS now have their own apps (Walmart is based on QR Code capture of QR code on payment pad/register; CVS based on scanning a 2D barcode at the point of sale).

NFC now works well at certain stores that have it enabled, but even at retailers that have enabled chip, sometimes the NFC doesn't work for contactless. It makes it frustrating to use NFC.

Honestly, with Samsung Pay, I can pay at pretty much any merchant - they bought out a company with patents called LoopPay. Samsung Pay uses NFC where available, and emulates swiping the card via a technology called MST (Magnetic Secure Transmission) that emulates a unique tokenized "swipe" per transaction (e.g. the swipe sent is valid for only one use and cannot be repeated or used to make a cloned card). That will work at 98%+ of merchants rather than NFC which is about 50/50 (less if you shop at fewer gigantic companies and more if you shop exclusively at the Walmarts and Targets of the world).

>>61477153
Yes. This is why a store can install those fancy verifone EMV readers with the color displays and they still have a "SWIPE PLS" piece of paper sticking out the card slot.

If the merchant just uses a standalone payment terminal, where they punch in a dollar amount to charge, insert the card, it connects and processes - all they have to do is go to their acquirer and swap the non-chip equipment for the chip equipment.

But if you process the transaction via a cash register, then not only do you have to upgrade the PIN pad, but you have to upgrade all of your point of sale software and change its configuration. Depending on your point of sale software's version, it may not support it, so you have to upgrade and test that. Depending on the operating system requirements of the new POS software, you may have to purchase and implement OS upgrades too. If your hardware is so old that the POS version or OS dependency for POS version can't be upgraded, then you have to select a new hardware vendor for your POS, buy the registers, get them rolled out & tested, etc.

The retailers that got bit with massive data breaches (TJX companies, Target, Home Depot) that had to show lessons learned and overhaul everything, they supported chip from the get-go. But others dragged their feet because it wasn't as high of a priority.

Costco, for example, requires members to present a membership with their photo on it in order to shop at a register. This helps reduce fraud, as the card provides a verified individual (Costco checks government issued photo ID when enrolling members and then takes a photo of them). They only started accepting chip a couple months back.

Smaller merchants with a smaller number of locations find their risk base smaller. The cost of upgrading and testing everything can easily exceed the risk of fraud.

>>61474640
>you have to keep the shit legislation that has been forced on you
>your dumb for trying to fix a problem
This explains Europe's issues quite well, actually.

>>61477372 here
Restaurants have largely skipped the upgrade to chip, because most people that use cards fraudulently aren't buying food (many restaurants are not in the price ranges that thieves target, and reselling food for any reasonable margin after purchase is basically impossible). Since debit cards are allowed to be processed in "credit mode" in the US, where they only need a signature on the printed receipt, restaurants have not needed to upgrade to terminals that are brought to the diner, and instead just swipe the card at the point of sale and bring a receipt + pen back to the person (as has been tradition for decades in the US).

Gas stations and ATM owners are exempt from the upgrades for the time being, although in regards to ATMs most banks have upgraded their own ATMs to chip acceptance (third party ATMs vary). Requiring EMV acceptance usually requires replacing the entire gas pump, which is not a high margin business in the US (the gas station owner can make as little as two cents per gallon; the convenience store is where all the money is made). For those gas pumps that can be retrofitted for chip support without complete replacement, there is not enough hardware to go around. Gas station owners were supposed to have upgraded to chip acceptance (or eat fraud costs) by October 2017, but that has now been pushed back to 2020.

>>61475420
weak bait

>>61476911
>implementing new technology is easier in places where there is not already a standard
Bunch of brainlets itt. Switching to the new system cost money. Money that doesn't need to be spent.

i work as a cashier in California, and at my store it's Swipe for debit, Chip for credit. so many people will just automatically chip even when you say it, so you have to guide them through it over and over.

at Wal-Mart, you can chip for debit. i wish you could just do that everywhere

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Live in Fairbanks, Alaska
POP:~30,000
Almost 100 contactless locations
Residential Gigabit available

It's been 6 years since I left other than Hawaii. Is the rest of the country behind the chillbilly ass town I live near?

>>61474287
>said the resident of the most oppressive and sinister country's government in the world

How many of the places in the US use Bitcoin as valid payment?

I'm genuinely curious because I'm in a rather rich and fairly modern area and expected more of this around here. I've seen places offer shut I've never heard of all the way to only American Express (no cash) but never seen any actual Bitcoin accepted anywhere.

Is it a meme? Have I been lied to? I don't have any Bitcoin to spend but if I did I'd be pretty pissed

>>61477750
but I live in israel

These cards are just never going to work in USA they might as well just focus on phones.

Eventually everyone there will just pay using their phones.

>tfw never used the magswipe and confused whenever told to "swipe"

>>61472267
>>61472303
>>61472340

I find this whole "USA has no chip" very amusing. I live in a shitting street third world country and here even the beggars accept CCs with chips.
Street corner hotdogs really do accept tho. No joke.

I live in Brazil, btw.

>>61477477
How is this bait?

>>61472390
its not practical for lots of small business to update everything cuz its pricey and fraud doesnt happen often / can be stopped.

>>61472339
>tfw live in Europe
>wireless payment
Same, and i dont even live in a relevant Europe country but i pay everything with my NFC CC.

I'm from spain btw.

>>61473919
Wireless payment still requires Pin if you configure it to do so.

>>61472267
I live in a fairly small town and just about everywhere has chip readers and it doesn't take 15 seconds to read. More like 3 seconds.

>>61477823
No way in hell will I every use my phone as my debit and credit card. There's an old saying "Don't put all your eggs in one basket".

>>61472267
It's only a problem for retarded companies that have failed to implement this in a timely fashion. Any place that still doesn't take a chip should be regarded as incompetent, and you shouldn't spend your money there.

>>61477823
>might as well just focus on phones.

Problem is Apple doesn't allow any phone payment system apart from Apple pay.
And Apple pay is hugely expensive.

>>61478851
>Wireless payment still requires Pin if you configure it to do so.

When it asks for a PIN it also asks to insert the card.

And this is annoying as fuck because it also means the cashier has to press a different button or the machine will sperg out.
I figured that wireless is actually slower than chip+PIN because of this.
Sure you will save a few seconds when wireless works, but once every 5 times or so it doesn't work and then you end up spending at least 30 seconds longer than normal chip+PIN.
'

>>61478859
No, it's going that way. I'm guessing you use your phone to read all your emails and do your banking on it already.

>>61472302
Because chip and pin magically makes credit cards secure even though all you need is the number and CVV

>>61472303
>Fucking ALL ATMs and gas station pumps support it.
I have literally never seen a gas station or ATM with chip readers, ever. Granted, I've never used an ATM outside my state (that I can remember), but I have filled up at gas stations on road trips many times.
I've seen a few stations with NFC, but they still don't have chip readers.
>That's wrong though.
some other anon linked what I was going to link
>stores don't implement them, card readers do, and fucking all support them
All new card readers might support them, but it's up to the store to enable them. Half the stores near my house have tape or a card that says "no chips- swipe only" because the owners can't be bothered doing things differently, they only got new readers because their old ones broke.
>living in the early 2000s or some third-world shithole.
The US is a shithole but it's not 3rd world (yet...)

>>61478552
America had chip and pin in the late 90s/early 2000s, but the credit card companies completely fucked up the rollout and ever since then Americans have hated chip and pin. Now it's supposed to be the law, but all it did was make it so we have to figure out which method we're supposed to be using.

Credit cards are inherently insecure, they ALL have fraud protection. Swiping was and still is faster, I don't understand why we're even bothering with this security theater shit show.

>>61473574
>if only android have something similar
They have, its called Android Pay.
The problem is always the banks and payment processors.

>>61472303
A lot of stores I've seen just gave up on their chip readers. Even medium sized chains like GameStop, wegmans, rite aid just taped over the chip reader. I don't know why.
Big chains like Walmart, McDonalds, etc are the only places that do chips anymore. Upstate NY

>>61478859
>No way in hell will I every use my phone as my debit and credit card. There's an old saying "Don't put all your eggs in one basket".

I agree.

Phone battery dead: can't take a taxi, can't pay for public transport, can't call a friend.
Phone gets stolen: can't eat until you get a new one.

Nah, I'm happy with my cards that always work.

>>61473574
Do you get charged extra for using Apple pay? (you should)

>>61472322
>>61475022
impressive

>>61475880
>I just need to get this thing and get home
>I've been up since 3am working and my fucking chair had to break right when K got home
Goes to register
>wait, what, why isn't it working?
>I can't even get my card in the damn thing
>The guy at the counter us saying something about chips?
>oh I gotta swipe, I guess this store is cheap and/or stupid
Or something like that. OP I think you might be a little aspie if you can't sympathize with exhausted broken people who don't have the ability to think straight.

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jesus fuck, why are americans so resistant to change ?

>>61472390
this is not true btw
you still have checks ffs
stop with the shit tech

>>61472461
NFC doesn't go on the card, anon

>>61472267
>not using swipe on a chip terminal and then chargebacking the merchant for a fraudulent purchase
if you swipe a chipped card on a chip-capable terminal, it's the merchant's responsibility. enjoy!

>>61480534
>NFC doesn't go on the card

Yes it does.

>>61472267
>yfw we have chipped credit cards decades ago
why burgers are luddites?

>>61472341
>Too old school (and unsafe)

More like the communist government wants to monitor all your purchases and prevent you from buying forbidden items. But yeah being a part of a government run botnet sure is "forward thinking" right?

>>61473663
>Our credit companies and banks control the world.

FTFY

>>61475468
>I'm not using my cellphone

Funny, my britbong friend uses his phone for everything. He doesn't even own a physical CC anymore.

>>61477033
Germany still relies on coal for 30% of its energy sector, and your coal is much dirtier than American coal. I bet your shit education system never bothered to teach you that did it? No, because it was too busy teaching you the value of cultural marxism and diversity to teach actual science.

>>61472390
>>61477149
>>61477214
>yuropoor suddenly silent

What's the matter, have to make an actual argument now instead of just spouting memes? Your shit "education" system didn't teach you how to form actual rational arguments? Sad.

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>be Canadian
>had chip + pin debit cards forever
>just works
>had contactless / tap / NFC whatever for almost forever
>just works

>>61472267
Fun fact: Complex society is collapsing!

How? Because while copying a 700MB file from NY to China I noticed it took over one hour to complete. I finally realized that the speed of light is too slow!

Imagine how many seconds we are wasting globally doing these tasks!


Here's an experiment everyone should try. Try doing everything you want to do for one weekend!
Try driving the speed limit AND NOT BEING LATE FOR WORK!

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>>61476631
Curious gay-orge here but what do you do now?

Can we make a rule oN /g/ so that people in the sticks are not allowed to complain?

>>61472267

>Bank still hasnt sent me a chip card

fucking glorious

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>>61472379

I live in NYC and it's a mixed bag. You are basing you information on your experiences, thus you are a faggot.

>>61472303
OP is an Amerifat.

>>61474814
>Doesn't change the fact that I can get a cold without suffering financial ruin
and by the same regulations you will never be successful either, your "big house" is the size of apartments/penthouses

>>61481992
It's a comfy feeling.

>>61474814
You misunderstand our situation. The media focuses on rare cases because they have the most dramatic effect. Here's how it usually plays out:

A) You can afford insurance: you get three free colds a year, each subsequent one is like $50, serious shit tops out at around $6K. That shouldn't be ruinous unless you're a fucking idiot.

B) You're poor in a state with good state-offered coverage: everything except for getting your ass to the doctor is free. Even if you have needs which fall outside the coverage, there are charity care programs available at many hospitals.

C) You're poor in a state with bad state-offered coverage: these people just don't go to doctors. It's as simple as that. You don't suffer financial ruin, you suffer death. Occasionally they make it to the hospital emergency ward and get treatment (for which they apply for charity care as above) but that only stabilizes them. It's not long-term treatment. They just die.

So no, in short Americans do not suffer financial ruin from medical expenses by and large. They either handle their needs, suck up their egos or suck up the agony of a slow death. Please spread this word to your friends so that you can all be better educated about the US.

>>61474640
>live in nice house
>niggers come and knock out window so it costs more to run ac constantly, my bill goes up
>welp this is the house i live in now
or
>live in nice house
>niggers come and knock out window so it costs more to run ac constantly, my bill goes up
>fix window and bring a/c costs go back down
my completely employer paid health insurance was great - when obamacare went into effect a couple of years ago the deductibles went up, the copays went up and the max coverage went down.
>at least i got to keep my own doctor

>>61472303
>or some third world shithole
But everything already uses chip/nfc payments in our third world shithole
poor murricans

>>61479160

no, you literally use it as a NFC that's all. no idea why people aren't using it instead of their card's tap feature.

it's more secure and everyone has a smart phone now

>>61472267

Give the stolen cc numbers back Tyrone

>>61472339

We're too busy finding benefits we can cut for the working poor to finance tax reductions for billionaires. It's hard work and we don't have time to implement the same improvements that every other western industrialized nation has.

>>61472267
As a retail worker, I like it.

Instead of swiping and waiting for the transaction to complete, holding their card in my hand like a dumbass, I simply jam it in the slot, and get their order ready in the 10 seconds it takes to verify.

>>61472445
>OOOH SOMEBODY LEFT THERE CARD IN THIS! *hands me little card sign*
>No sir that says to swipe your card.
Fucking irritating. This kept happening at my store and eventually people would steal them too probablly thinking they were real cards.

>>61472339
Jews, my dude. Do you have them in Europe?

>>61484291
What country are you from?

Here in the states, the chip reader takes noticeably longer to verify the card. To say nothing of the additional time it takes people to discern whether that particular store uses the magnetic strip or the chip.