Debian thread

will debian continue to support i386 or have there been talks about dropping it

>>61418695
I think it will keep supporting it.
Debian's not your edgy hip Arch distro trying to ditch old hardware.

You forgot
>supports everything
and
>pretty light

>>61418736
ubuntu is ditching it too

>>61418406
Because we, Debian users, do actual work, not rice i3 configurations for 12 hours, spending all day emerging shit on their poor old thinkpads.

>>61418805
ubuntu can suck my swirly cock

in ubuntu by default apt installs "recommended" pkgs along the actual dependencies for a pkg, is this the case in debian as well

>>61418805
no shit, ubuntu is based on debian

>>61418825
Why are you so angry?

>>61418835
your point is?

>>61418840
ubuntu has no reason to ditch i386, they do it because its the new hip thing to do apparently

>>61418819
>tfw run debian + i3
W-what am I?

>>61418840
why does ubuntu feel the need to ditch i386? is it because arch did it?

>>61418850
if debian ditches i386, ubuntu does too

>>61418859
you're someone who likes i3

>>61418860
ask the faggot on their mailing list

>>61418871
ubuntu is ditching it regardless of debian

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>>61418859

>>61418406
>>apt
Why are you putting a disadvantage with stable and werks?

>>61418915
Name a better package manager for GNU/Linux. I'll wait.

>>61418406
>old =/= stable

>>61418915
>a disadvantage

Oh no, he's retarded.

>>61418931
use sid. still stable af

>>61418931
go back emerging upstream buggy packages

>>61418946
how often does testing update

>>61418952
>hurrdurr im on my period

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>>61418957
I haven't updated since friday so you get updates pretty often

>>61418968
>hurrdurr i have no life so i spend my time watching gcc output all day

>>61418986
>yay i have all this time to get tampons

>>61419017
It sure is summer

>>61419040
>ran out of gas
:(

>>61418859
It's fine anon (I do that too), as long as you haven't riced it beyond belief

>>61418928
even yum is better than apt
emerge
pacman
nix
The list goes on

>>61418935
it's apt. So looks like OP is indeed retarded

>>61419222
>yum
yum is literal shit compared to dnf
>emerge
found the retard
>pacman
enjoy fixing Xorg
>nix
haha
>the list goes on
it does not.

>>61419249
>enjoy fixing Xorg
nigga we wayland whatch you talkin' bout

>>61419222
No, the only package manager comparable to apt is pkg from FreeBSD.
Period.
The fucking list does not go on.
And you're really comparing apt and emerge?
My sides.

>>61418406
Nearly. Go Devuan, senpai.

>>61419313
Devuan is a joke.
I get it that systemd is bloated garbage, but I won't use Jessie-era packages just to be systemd-free.
At that point I'd just use a *BSD.
Or cope with systemd (which is not as bad as people make it out to be).

>>61419249
>>yum
>yum is literal shit compared to dnf
And still better than apt. That was the point
>>emerge
>found the retard
Did gentoo hurt you?
>>pacman
>enjoy fixing Xorg
apt actually broke my xorg more than pacman, not sure where that meme is from. Probably old as fuck versions that didn't do .pacnew/.pacold
>>nix
>haha
The usability of nix as a distro is questionable, but their package manager is objectivly better.
>>the list goes on
>it does not.
It does. Mixing apt/apt-get mess/dpkg in one distro just makes for the worst system ever invented.
Well maybe windows is worse.

>>61419299
>No, the only package manager comparable to apt is pkg from FreeBSD.
Why didn't they improve it then?

Name 1 thing apt can do better than other systems

>>61419350
>And still better than apt.
no
>Did gentoo hurt you?
yes
>apt actually broke my xorg more than pacman
bullshit
>Mixing apt/apt-get mess/dpkg in one distro just makes for the worst system ever invented.
except that it doesnt, as it is one of the most stable package management systems out there

>>61419362
Removing packages, dist-upgrade, config management.
Do i have to go on?

>>61419350
>And still better than apt. That was the point
not any better, it's shittier, also your point was to name any other package manager than apt, not a better one.
>Did gentoo hurt you?
if by hurt you mean stare at gcc output for hours like i have no life, then yes.
>apt actually broke my xorg more than pacman, not sure where that meme is from. Probably old as fuck versions that didn't do .pacnew/.pacold
when, but at least apt isn't suicidal and doesn't stop working when i do an update.
>The usability of nix as a distro is questionable, but their package manager is objectivly better.
not really.
>It does. Mixing apt/apt-get mess/dpkg in one distro just makes for the worst system ever invented.
it doesn't, only a child will get confused by them.

>>61419371
>most stable package management systems
It's the only package management system I ever got break so hard it didn't want to fix itself without the root-fs going haywire.
But maybe I just triggered some weird ass edgecase. Every fucking time I had to use it.

>>61419469
it's not Debian's fault if you can't into computer, anon.

>>61419392
>Removing packages
Which totally none of the others can do

>dist-upgrade
A problem introduced by the release system of debian, not required for most.
From what sysadmins told me, it's about as much work as pulling up a new system either way, since duh, any breaking change is still a breaking change
> config management
That's in apt? Then what does dpkg do again?

>>61419490
>>Removing packages
>Which totally none of the others can do
None of the others can do as nicely and cleanly.
>A problem introduced by the release system of debian, not required for most.
>From what sysadmins told me, it's about as much work as pulling up a new system either way, since duh, any breaking change is still a breaking change
No, it's one of the most simple, stable, and straight-forward ways to update a system. The other distros are unstable and rolling, hence the lack of a dist-upgrade-like feature.
>Then what does dpkg do again?
Yes, it's in dpkg, when I refer to APT I sometimes include dpkg into the mix to, since the systems are related.

>>61418819
To build a custom desktop configuration is a one-time investment, I just keep my configuration files and after every installation I run a script which install them along with the other software I use.

>>61419737
"Oh I don't like it now"
"I need some variety in my life"
"Man I wish this was a bit better"
"Yep, too old, time to write a new one."

>>61419525
>None of the others can do as nicely and cleanly
you clearly haven't tried.
> No, it's one of the most simple, stable, and straight-forward ways to update a system.
It's the most backwards system to update a system actually.
It has some nice properties while a system is running though

So which of the apts do you mean?
apt, apt-get/apt-cache? Mind you, one has a problem with the dependency algorithm that *can* actually deadlock

>>61418406
Cool for server, shit for desktop.
Which is why Ubuntu was made, which still sucks as you will be reinstalling every LTS and fucking up by installing 1001 PPAs.

Arch has no installer because devs don't give a fuck.
Not sure about Antergos and Manjaro.

OpenSUSE Tumbleweed comes close, if only their repos were bigger and the whole proprietary codec thing was a bit easier

>>61419791
It depends. I use the same configuration for a more than a year with minor changes mostly caused by different versions of software packages in Gentoo and Debian.

>>61419807
Listen, I've been using Debian for 5+ years uninterrupted. I've installed Debian many times, I've used it for long periods of time in which I've installed, removed, upgraded and purged packages.
I use Debian on producion systems and servers.
APT and dpkg never failed me once, and the system is sound.
If your Arch, Gentoo, or whatever alternatives are so good, and beat APT in every way, then why is it that Debian is used in actual production environments, and on actual servers, and your OSs are only used by people who don't do anything but browse /g/ and brag about how superior their OS of choice is without substantial proof to support their claim?
Give me evidence for APT being such a shitty system and I will consider it. But so far you've only been venting.

>>61419829
>shit for desktop
Except that it's not, sid works fantastically stable on the desktop, with reasonable versions of packages, without the mainstream bullshit you get in pacman, breaking everything.
>Arch has no installer because devs don't give a fuck.
The devs clearly give a fuck to fight against normal people installing the system, they try to make it as hard as possible and they try to make the guide as small as they can go, so you just can't even install the system without being lost in 15 wiki articles.
>Not sure about Antergos and Manjaro.
If you like stability, not the distro.
>OpenSUSE Tumbleweed comes close
If only zypper wasn't a steaming pile of shit

>>61419907
Because debian has an actual security and stability policy
doesn't change the fact that apt is shit.
Moving goalposts much?

> Split over at least 4 executables
> Actually has a chance to mess up package database
> dpkg and apt can disagree on what's actually installed
> slow as balls

>>61419249
Apt takes fucking forever to upgrade packages. There have been times I compiled a package faster than apt was able to upgrade it. Also
>enjoy fixing xorg
Ancient forced meme.

>>61420007
>Apt takes fucking forever to upgrade packages
Not my fault your internet is shit.
>>enjoy fixing xorg
>Ancient forced meme.
Except that every Arch installation I had ever, pacman broke Xorg, python configurations and itself.

>>61420007
At least apt doesn't force you to update every fucking thing if you just want to install one small package like yum does.

>>61419988
I'm starting to think that you do not understand what dpkg is.

>>61419984
Things do get very old on Debian, which is frustrating.
It's the mainstream stuff I need to get things working, latest AMDGPU, MESA, X, steam.


How is zypper shit?
So far I've only managed to fuck up OpenSUSE by not setting snapshot limits and installing a bajillion unofficial repos.

>>61420048
USE SID

Sid has more recent packages than most of the distros you faggots use.

>>61419984
so you're saying i can carefree use testing?

>>61420048
Things are even older on CentOS, but I never hear anyone complain about oldness on CentOS.

>>61420048
>Things do get very old on Debian, which is frustrating.
Never had any problems in sid, sid pushes updates a lot.
>How is zypper shit?
Huge fucking mess if you use it for a while.

>>61420068
Yes, I have not had a single stability issue with sid.

>>61420069
That's because no one uses CentOS

>>61418406
>shitty package management (apt)
>old as shit software (stable)
>basically fucking shit (systemd)

>>61418406
>new debian distro just released
>old software

fuck debian

>>61420067
yea but lesbian shit over cdrtools
well done

>>61420089
The release is meant for servers, if you want newer packages you should use sid/unstable.

>fuck debian
Spotted the Arch/Gentoo user with no life.

>>61420086
>>basically fucking shit (systemd)
So basically every current distro out there, hah.

>>61420089
im not using it but i was checking it out and from the little time i invested i got that you can leave testing in /etc/ instead of the release name which would keep you always on the testing branch regardless of version which kinda makes it like a rolling release i guess

>>61420090
I don't understand you.

>>61420120
well... google it

>>61420115
you mean /etc/apt/sources.list

>>61420115
it is a rolling (and the best imo) release

>>61420086
>>shitty package management (apt)
Name a better one, not what others named because they tried and completely failed.
>>old as shit software (stable)
For the last time for you fucking dumbasses, USE SID!
>>basically fucking shit (systemd)
Name a better init system for power users. Yeah, you can't.
>>61420089
>>old software
Yet it works on environments that need as much stability as possible, no one but /g/ complains.

>>61420030
>internet is shit
Except it isn't. 50mbps is not bad.
>broke my configs
When was this? Back before they implemented .pacnew and back your configs?
>>61420038

 pacman -Su 

Someone's never READ THE FUCKING WIKI OR MAN PAGES

>>61420086
Daily reminder that not because Poettering made something it means it's garbage.
systemd is not that bad,
pulseaudio is better than any alternative.

>>61420159
it's his attitude

>>61420153
>Needing additional flags to stop your package manager from doing unnecessary things
What a plebian

>>61420138
which one?

>>61420217
sid

>>61420140
>Yet it works on environments that need as much stability as possible

who has the time to obsess about server stability?

on my laptop I want C++17 compilers and interpreters out of the box

there's enough installs to deal with as it is

>used Debian stable
>complained about old packages
>didn't change sources.list in 2 minutes to fix the issue
>compiled Gentoo instead

tfw

>>61420244
>who has the time to obsess about server stability?
t.neckbeard who spends all day fixing broken shit instead of doing actual work

>>61420244
>apt-get install build-essential

Wow anon, it's so difficult to install a build environment on Debian, you should use Arch instead.

>>61420217
testing?

>>61420230
sounds like fun, m8

> Please note that security updates for "unstable" distribution are not managed by the security team. Hence, "unstable" does not get security updates in a timely manner. For more information please see the Security Team's FAQ.

> "sid" is subject to massive changes and in-place library updates. This can result in a very "unstable" system which contains packages that cannot be installed due to missing libraries, dependencies that cannot be fulfilled etc. Use it at your own risk!

you get pretty much the same packages in Ubuntus and Fedoras when they're new, which are stable distros

>>61420244
I agree, there's no time to obsess over stability because the time is all spent on fixing stuff that broke.

>>61420140
>>Name a better one, not what others named because they tried and completely failed.
>apk
>brew (yes it's better even if its in a meme lang)
>nix
(inb4 my bloated package meme does so much shit they're not comparable)
>>use sid
then you basically discard the stable meme
>better init system
openrc. fucking anything. even launchd would be better

>>61420267
>>apt-get install build-essential
won't help if the g++ is old

>>61420286
>you get pretty much the same packages in Ubuntus and Fedoras when they're new, which are stable distros
Yeah, they just call it unstable because of mainstream programmers pushing half-baked code. Again, I have not had a single stability issue with sid.

>>61420286
No, at Debian they are transparent about it.
At Ubuntu and Fedora they hide facts under the carpet.

It ends up with sid being 100x more stable than "stable" Ubuntu and Fedora.

>>61420305
>what is sid?

>>61420304
>apk
nope
>brew
nope
>nix
nope
>then you basically discard the stable meme
nope
>openrc. fucking anything. even launchd would be better
nope, nope and nope
try again next time.

>>61420305
once again, sid you faggot

> debian is based off of ubuntu
> who even uses linux
> can i play fallout 4 on linux? i think not
> linux is for hackers im not a hacker
> ubuntu is better

>>61420307
>Again, I have not had a single stability issue with sid.
its maintainers explicitly say that they allow broken dependencies on it

maybe you haven't had issues because you don't install a lot of shit

>>61420356
>>>/v/

>>61420345
why sid and not testing

>>61420356
>> debian is based off of ubuntu
Weak bait

>>61420337
>>what is sid?
crap >>61420286

>is >>61420337 a smart person
nope

>>61420360
the developers are covering their asses, unlike the ubuntu and arch ones who dont give a fuck

>>61420316
>At Ubuntu and Fedora they hide facts under the carpet.
no, they also break dependencies and fuck shit up in Alpha 1 and are transparent about it

the difference is that a stable distro is tested tries not to fuck you

>>61420215

 pacman -S 

Upgrade single package, reinstalling dependencies

 pacman -Su 

Upgrade single package, install needed dependencies

 pacman -Syu 

Full system upgrade, install any packages requested with -Su
Much faster than

 apt update && 
apt install 

or

 apt update && apt upgrade 

>>61420365
sid is rolling

also debian 9 JUST came out so there really is no point "testing" anything yet

>>61420360
Yeah, the same is with Ubuntu, Fedora, any other distro that uses new software, really, yet they call it "stable". Debian sid doesn't push mainstream code, unlike something like Arch.

>>61420365
I suspect they're trolls

>>61420392
yet i've had Ubuntu break more than "unstable" Sid. explain that.
also if you don't want sid you can still use testing, which is almost as updated as sid, without the breakage clause.
otherwise go compile a Gentoo.

>>61420405
doesnt matter when youve edited bash aliases.....

>>61420405
>aliases
what are those?

where is all this fedora hate coming from? fedora has great, up to date repositories and SElinux pre installed. very stable as well...

>>61420365
>Compared to stable and unstable, next-stable testing has the worst security update speed. Don't prefer testing if security is a concern.
nvm

>>61420413
testing is too

>>61420424
I've also had Ubuntu break that's why I'm on Fedora now

>>61420405
>alias anything="su -c "apt update && apt upgrade"
that was hard

>>61420405
>Not aliasing any apt command to perform an apt-update before anything else

>>61420427
>Aliases to fix retarded package manager
Yet they try to pass off arch as more work.

>>61420470
>su -c
why dont you use sudo

>>61420487
name one thing wrong with apt. bitching about the length of a command doesnt count, you are still sitting on your computer all day

>>61420487
>fix retarded package manager
Fix pacman to not break shit, then I'll talk.

>>61420487
yes, let's spend 2-3 days installing and configuring arch so that we can type 5 less characters to update with a shit package manager and have way less shit than your average Debian based distro.
good reasoning there.

>>61420427
>>61420442
>>61420470
>>61420483
KISS

>>61420535
>Finally admits that arch is for stupid people who can only deal with simple things
Like pottery

>>61420535
>keep it simple
>100 commands to install a shit os
>breaks in a few days

>>61420535
>KISS

The opposite of what Arch does then.

>>61420535
>implying setting up an alias is more complex than installing arch

Arch linux is a broken distro with a broken model along with a broken elitist community.

debian just works

ubuntu is shill but just works

gentoo is hard but all you need to do is modify euse and again just works

fedora is shill but just works

wow debunked

>>61418406
>Why is Debian the best GNU/Linux distro out there?
because the logo is too feminine
>if you catch my drift

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37KB, 640x400px

>>61420535
>He thinks aliases are complex

>>61420591
>yet he manages to install arch

That's the proof that Arch is only apparently difficult to install to make you feel like a 1337 haxx0r while it is actually a dumb distro.

>>61420535
>Invokes KISS
>While defending a package manager that uses flags to do basic things

> Arch Linux
> KISS
"oh ok let's put systemd into our distro"

The Arch people are tho only people on the internet bragging about their distro of choice without giving a single reasonable argument for why their way of doing things is better.
Most of them are probably just millennial snowflakes thinking they're better because they use a shit distro.

lots of hate in these threads particularly towards arch but im sure not all debians are this salty

>>61420906
It's the Arch community being elitist here, as you can see.
We're just defending a fine OS.

how are you supposed to get packages that aren't in their repo? compile them yourself?

>>61421160
PPAs
dpkg -i deb_file.deb

>>61421182
PPAs are for Ubuntu.
Either dpkg from .deb files, or compile from source into a deb package, then use dpkg.
Using make install is not advised.

>>61418406
Comes very barebones out of the installation. Harde to make it a general distro to install on multiple PCs for people that are just learning Linux like in a school. Ubuntu is better for that kind of thing. It has a few things that are automatized

However since Ubuntu is based off Debian I guess that still makes you right.

>>61421030
well i've been here for a while and i don't see

>>61420641
That shit hasn't been KISS for a long while.

>>61421210
https://wiki.debian.org/CreatePackageFromPPA#Add_the_PPA_source_url_to_your_sources.list

>>61421337
This is basically compiling from source, not using a PPA.

i have a question. how long does it take for a pkg to enter stable? for example freetype is 2.6 in stable and 2.8 in testing atm

>>61421496
Years. Literally years. Once testing has been frozen, and after some times it becomes stable, the packages don't enter from upstream anymore (usually).
Mainly the packages already in the distro get patched by Debian.
If you need newer packages use testing/sid.

>>61421521
Or stable-backports

>>61421521
>Years. Literally years.
this

still waiting for torch7 to enter anything