>Windows 95 only needed 50 mb of drive space to function yet

>>61391977
just botnet things

>>61391977
just botnet things

Drivers, backwards compatibility libraries, botnet stuff, metro stuff, NSA backdoors, Cortana, .NET, more botnet stuff, Windows Update, swapfile and hiberfile, ads, and Candy Crush.

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No couldn't you sack of shit
It still works in vms
Try viewing modern websites with w95

>>61392844
This is purely down to the OS no longer being supported. Some older Firefox versions support Windows 95 and they run just fine.

>CUPS the printing system on gnu+linux, BSDs and macs is >120MB installed
>win95 could be <90MB and could print

>>61391977
"Basic functions of an OS" today means shit like USB3.0, 802.11ac Wi-Fi, NVME M.2 SSDs, and being able to use more than 256MB of RAM.

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>>61391977
Fresh install.

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>>61391977
>more or less
that's the keyword here

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>>61392968
>266MB for fonts

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Computers are literally obsolete. Just use a notebook and a pencil.

Pens are too new, you might want to avoid those too.

install debian net install
install freebsd
install reactos
install freedos
install a gtfo normie

>>61392936

>printers
>linux

Printer drivers are the reason why admins drink like fish - for some inexplicable reason every major printer manufacturter decided to make their software as obtuse as humanly possible (with as many hacks as humanly possible) just to make life difficult. Its why in the enterprise space any OS (lets say Red Hat to continue the example) will say "we support xyz printers - buy one of those" and the business in question will do so. This applies in the windows space as well.

Consumer level printers are even worse.

>>61393044
Pencils are newer tech than pens you fucking Moron.

>>61391977
I think the real question is why Linux needs 100x as much for less functionality.

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>>61392894
Ok try running webgl or even h264 videos on win95
You may be mentally retarded, better get a check on that

>>61393081
I did a short stint for a nigger charity (I'm a programmer but I was out of work and on government aid and they forced me into this shitty support job) and they had some retarded network HP enterprise printer which they obviously didn't need and it was the only thing that stopped me from being able to switch them to Ubuntu completely. Fuck printers and their fucking drivers.

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>>61393173
That's true too. The bloat is insane. However linux also got some small distros or at least it got them. I've seen a tablet linux distro (2.4 series linux on simpad) that somehow did fit into 17MB flash.

When is some billionaire going to get a team together to build a lightweight OS; free from botnet, spying, ads, etc; earning the love of people all over the world.

Surely it would barely cost even a fraction of their fortune.

Gates has nothing to lose doing this, right? He isn't even involved with Microsoft anymore, really. Just sell your stock, if you own any, and save the fucking world already, if you care about it that much.

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>>61393250
actual picture

>>61393297
That's what TempleOS is.

>>61393231

So what is your spirit of choice? No beer or lagar is enough to ease the pain of printer woes.

>>61393323

TempleOS is fantastic on manly levels but will never work as anything than a hobby distro due to tis single user nature.

>>61393250
>240p ultrawide
Nice.

>>61393323

It's cool but it's not for modern use. Would never gain any traction with anyone who is even 1/20th normie.

>>61391977
>>Windows 95 only needed 50 mb of drive space to function yet can more or less accomplish all the basic functions of a modern OS
This is what retards believe.

>>61393141
99.99% of pens in use today are ball-point pens, which are newer technology from the start of 19th century. Pencils are older than that.

>b-b-but muh fountain pens
Not an argument, it's irrelevant hipster shit.

>>61393487

Anyone taking their work seriously when not going full on 21st century CAD uses a pencil.

>>61393297
Gates isn't even a programmer. He was a hardware guy, but he made his fortune on something he bought.

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>>61391977
>tfw the catalog is broken

>>61391977
>yet can more or less accomplish all the basic functions of a modern OS
Debatable and depends on what you plan to do with your OS. If all you are doing is writing some word docs and are doing some light internet browsing then 95 would probably be ok. Anything more than that and it becomes a useless OS. Modern programs aren't going to run. Web browsers that are compatible with Windows 95 are so archaic now that they aren't going to support newer protocols. So unless you are just browsing text, most sites will probably look broken. Let's be real, if you can't browse the web then your OS is garbage.

Then again, it's Windows 95 so there are probably a boat load of viruses waiting out there to infect your machine anyway. At that point, you might as well just turn the computer into an old game machine.

>>61393081
Linux has the same printer support as OS X, CUPS is an Apple project.

>>61393487
Still pens, just improved pens. The pen is still older than the pencil.

>>61393250
The main problems are shit using QT or GTK sucking in every dependency known to the man. I reckon you can get pretty far by using Musl and Busybox whereever possible. Also Lennart.

>>61393935
Even this shit looks more consistent than windows 10 what the hell.

>>61394187

That was then. We're in the age of Electron doing even worse, where it take storage and RAM in the 100s of MBs, and moving a cursor in it causes 100% CPU overhead.

>>61394432
but hey it's """"modern"""" :^)

>>61394058
If something that puts ink to paper is still a pen then can't you count a lump of charcoal with something wrapped around it a pencil because it puts carbon to paper?

32g ram and im only using 5gb, probably just a recommendation more than anything

>>61393367

undetected roots are impossible when your physical memory model can fit on a single monitor

multiuser is just singleuser except with privilege escalation vulnerabilities you CIA nigger

>>61393015
>Install arch
>Muh minimalism
>No programs work since fonts don't display
>Font packages broken into 200 individual packages to avoid "bloated packages"


Simply epic

>>61393297

OpenBSD.

>>61394263
Classic windows shell is the best and most consistent UI microsoft even came up with. I'm triggered that you even compared the two.

>>61395075
no
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pencil
>A pencil is a writing implement or art medium constructed of a narrow, solid pigment core inside a protective casing which prevents the core from being broken or leaving marks on the user's hand during use.

>>61391977
I thought early versions of windows used very little memory because PCs at the time had very limited memory?

Win 10 can use a lot of memory because most people have at least 250gb

>>61393487
Confirmed fucking Moron.

>>61393081
A proprietary printer driver is why stallman started the free software movement.

OP is clearly underage because Windows 95 sucked huge donkey dick

>>61396656

Stallman is the hero we need - fighting the tyranny of printer manufacturers and their evil ways.

>>61395161
thats your fault, you just fucked the installation up you dumbass
ive never had any trouble with fonts on my archfu
dont blame the os for your own mistakes

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>>61396862
>Points out legitimate fault and inconvenience with a simple solution
>No you're an idiot and it's perfect

>>61397103
kek

A lot of it comes from more modern features, like RAM images of the current OS state saved on disk, to be able to wake the computer fast from hibernation.

Then there are more system configurations which have multiple backups, in case you need to make a recovery.

OSes today have a lot more safety features than they used to have in 1995.

At some point it became acceptable to import giant monolithic libraries into your project for one function.

Even the compiler libraries in modern dev environments are guilty. Create a completely basic hello world terminal program using cout in MSVC and the compiler will shit out an executable half a megabyte in size. C++ in general bloated the fuck out of everything, and even newer environments like Rust are worse still.

An even larger culprit though is program resources like art, sound, video, models, your fonts, etc... People aren't using 800x600 screens and low detail anymore. Languages in particular are pretty huge because of the glyphs, tables and complex rules and more are installed by default now where they weren't before.

This all also takes up more RAM and since we have so much disk space these days why not grow things like swap files and redundant backups, and keep used install packages and temporary files forever too?

>>61396862
It's ironic how an OS than prides itself on simplicity is complicated as fuck and you need to look everything up. How the fuck are you supposed to know commands by default? If you can fucking read and click a mouse, you can operate a GUI. Imagine installing arch without using another computer with a GUI to look up instructions and what to do for your specific device if you're lucky enough to find someone with your problems. Gonna go out and buy a book to install a fucking OS in 2017? In 2014? In 2008? Fuck no. Arch is an embarrassment to the KISS philosophy.

>>61397461
>omg buying books is *soo* last decade XD
come on dude
if i could get physical copy of the gentoo handbook or the lfs book where i live, id totally buy them. i prefer traditional books like that over websites and pdfs.

anyways, simplicity doesnt mean "everything just werks". a system where everything works out of the box cant be simple or lightweight.
but i admit that using a computer is just a hobby for me, i like tinkering with things like this. its fun to build your own system, if you have the time and patience, and the will to learn new things. its also fun to fix it when it breaks.

of course, this is just my subjective view, and if youre a busy wagefriend with no time for fun things in your life, you should just buy a mac and turn your brain off.

>>61397461
the simplicity of arch is in relation to the developers/maintainers, not the users

>>61397461
>>61397604
also, simple doesn't necessarily mean intuitive
there's many ways something can be "simple"

>>61393015
You say that as though you can even find a new drive under 500GB easily.

>>61397591
But if you're going to setup arch to do essentially what other OSs do out of the box, then arch is incredibly complex in comparison to say, Antergos.

If you're not looking for modern desktop capabilities, then arch would be ideal and simple.

>>61397623
so in other words, KISS is retarded and doesn't actually mean anything?

>>61397645
>lets use up all the resources!
why?
>because we can always buy more resources, it doesnt matter! durr

this is everything thats wrong with software design these days

>>61397686
it's simple in its own way, which isn't the same way as windows 95 is
windows 95 is designed to be picked up and used by someone with zero computer experience, arch is designed to be used by people already familiar with linux, there's nothing wrong with either of them, they just target different audiences

>>61397674
im not necessarily looking for "modern desktop capabilities", no. what im looking for is a lightweight, minimal system that i can set up my own way, and make it work just the way i want it to, an operating system that can become that one friend i never had, and where i can feel at home.

of course theres other options available too, like gentoo, freebsd or maybe void, but based on my experience with them, arch would be the most "simple" distro that suits my needs

>>61391977
>Where does all this bloat come from?
Botnet code

>>61393225
what makes you think that an operating system limits what arbitrary software can do with arbitrary hardware
do you know anything about how computers operate

>>61391977
You'd make a more promising argument if you replaced the 95 in your post with 98 or XP

At least you can still sort of do things on those

>>61393015
its so you can see tranny emojis

>>61391977
The Amiga OS was a full 32-bit pre-emptive multitasking operation system that could run off of one 880KB floppy disk drive in 1985, 10 years before Win95, a 32-bit kluge of a 16-bit operating system, that was not pre-emptive when running 16-bit programs.

Current software is strange. I don't feel like I've gained more important and useful features. Software just got bigger and heavier. I still write documents, shitpost, play games, more or less the same as I did back in 1997. Hardware improved a lot, but I feel software have been fairly stale, and I think a lot of software have regressed, but due to compatibility with the modern internet websites, you must run current software.

>>61397883
95 and 98 can run the same software and have pretty much the same utility. 98 came preinstalled with IE, and was more "internet" with the updated explorer and (very crashy) active desktop.

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>>61397461

>Arch is an embarrassment to the KISS philosophy.

You could not have described it with better words. Arch nowadays is anything but KISS.

Crux follows the KISS philosophy much more than Arch.

>>61398025
>95 and 98 can run the same software
there's a lot of software which requires at least 98 or 98SE

>>61392067
dis^

>>61398025
98 added to the API after 95. If a program relies on any such additions it won't actually work on 95.

>>61391977
Man 95 was so fucking comfy

>>61393044
Pencils are literally older than papyrus

>>61393225
they'd just have to write drivers for modern GPUs

>>61391977
Telemetry.

>>61391977
>>Windows 95 only needed 50 mb of drive space to function yet can more or less accomplish all the basic functions of a modern OS
>brainlets actually think this

>>61397852
>what makes you think that an operating system limits what arbitrary software can do with arbitrary hardware
>do you know anything about how computers operate
Do fucking YOU?

>>61396656
>A proprietary printer driver is why stallman started the free software movement
i dont care if this isnt true or not, its fucking realistic enough to be the reason a man would throw away a promising career of fame and fortune to make open source a reality.

srs i am so glad most printer problems are handled by the companies we lease MFDs from. they have the support agreement, and they can fucking keep it.

>>61392959
/thread

>>61391977
>Windows 10 requires a minimum of 16gb
What the fuck are you smoking?

>>61391977
Drivers and the multiple versions of runtimes the OS has to keep to keep those shitty old softwares running properly.

>>61396684
correct, 98 was the real goat

>>61393935
You put a lot of effort into this.

Thanks man.

>>61395425
That's a literal rephrase of what that fellow said...

>>61391977
the bloat is an illusion, eventually that bloat becomes data about yourself after a while so advertisers know which ads to bombard you with. why else would windows 10 be free? does no one remember netzero?

>>61400288
windows 95 never froze nearly as much as 98 did for me, millenial edition was even worse

>>61391977
>Windows 10 requires a minimum of 16gb
Why would you lie on the internet?

>>61396862
Lol you think that's bad
I can't even install arch because it fails to download all the necessary packages since they're constantly out of date or unsupported
Linux was a mistake

the bloat comes from people becoming gradually dumber & lazier, thus more interested in the visual aspects of an os, rather than the practical ones.

>>61393298
>KDE fit in 17MB

what HASN'T science done

>>61402228

Made KDE usable.

>>61398376
In my experience they just need the updated DLL files from 98. Which is a nonissue to fetch.

>>61398482
You can say that about any version of Windows.

>>61402228
It actually was OPIE. It's based on Trolltechs Qt(opia) so it looks similar as KDE is also Qt based.

>>61392067
wow, you really got this down

Why hasn't anybody just made a 100% lock-stock-and-barrel copy of Windows explorer in Linux?

>>61400526
he meant 98SE

>>61400526
Neither of the 9x series of Windows was any worse than any other version of 9x I think. I used 95 for ages, used 98 a lot, and even used Me. They were all as crashy, unstable, and as fragile as the other. I thought it was strange back then. I was surrounded by people using 98SE,they all chanted about how bad Me was, that it had nothing but bluescreens and crashes, how nothing worked. While I was using Me without any issues at all (not more than I already had with 98 and 95 anyways). It wasn't until NT took over as the desktop OS with Windows 2000 that I got a properly stable desktop OS.

>>61399990
>>61397852
And that is why it's 16gb.

>>61403211
I started with 98 and I've never seen an actual BSoD in my life. At this point I'm convinced it's all smoke and memes, propagated by the same retards that download yahoo browser toolbars and think that having games installed makes the computer run slower.

While we're on the subject I never had a fucking issue with Arch breaking either. With the way people cry about rolling release distros you'd like the fucks would be breaking every single week.

>>61403172
There's xfe

>>61403263
There is the "BSOD" you got when your computer was trying to access the floppy drive after you've removed it. The kind where you hit A to abort, or reinsert the floppy and hit C, so you could continue using Windows like normal. It was more of an error screen than a BSOD, but I guess a lot of people see it as a proper BSOD.

I had some issues with Arch, but that was during the transition from monolithic Xorg to modular Xorg. I was using Gentoo as my daily driver back then, and I didn't care about fixing the file conflicts that a lot of the packages had during that time.

>>61403211
2000 was such a game changer no more constant reinstalls

>>61403380
my main issue with 98 is that it fucking froze unless you just never did anything

>>61393231
Hp laser jets all do pcl. You could have just used a generic pcl driver.

>>61391977
Except if you want to save over 2G of files in a single partition. Or use over 4G of memory, while the filesystem takes a lot of it because it's FAT

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I'm browsing /g/ and playing D2 in a W98 machine right fucking now

>>61391977
>Windows 10 requires a minimum of 16gb
maybe if you're a god damn normie who installs every bloatware known to man

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You can slim W10 a little but really, who fuck cares about install size

>>61403425
>he thinks those pieces of shit you buy in the store are the same as enterprise printers

>>61403530
>he thinks enterprise printers don't support pcl

I've worked in "enterprise" IT for 18 years, before you were born most likely. Admitedly and thankfully I haven't been the sort of grunt who deals with printers in about 10 years.

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Remember when you could load Windows from a zip file into a RAM drive?

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O hai

>>61406754
>no rice
learn from >>61393935

>>61406779
covering up that glorious shade of teal

>>61391977
just botnet things

>>61393051
>install a gtfo normie
if only there were software that could accomplish this

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>>61397461
every linux distro in general is a dogshit user experience compared to windows 98. Arch is just the worst

I hate everything, every distro is lame as fuck. When windows7 loses all support i'll just neck myself

>>61393231
>>>61393081
>I did a short stint for a nigger charity (I'm a programmer but I was out of work and on government aid and they forced me into this shitty support job) and they had some retarded network HP enterprise printer which they obviously didn't need and it was the only thing that stopped me from being able to switch them to Ubuntu completely. Fuck printers and their fucking drivers.

Use esxi to install Windows on 1 box and share the printer over to your cups server on the same box.

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>>61403475
that is cool and I approve

>>61403528
Agreed, I enjoy my operating systems having a massive footprint with a large attack cross-section of software and gadgets which i will never use just so that I can fit in with those around me and be the laziest as possible by taking the path of least resistance, you know, kinda like a sheep being herded

>>61393081
>Printer drivers are the reason why admins drink like fish
Xerox tech support here, never had problems with our drivers on Linux and our products support PCL v6 anyways so it shouldn't be an issue.

Even if you're a full knuckle dragging freetard, you can just upload your file to our multi function products via Centreware Internet Services on our older Workcentre, Phaser and Colorqube models or via Embedded Web Server on our new Altalink and Versalink models.

Scanning remains unchanged on both old and new products across operating systems as our multi function products utilise either scan to server which any self respecting Linux user should know how to set up or scan to e-mail which is so easy that any end user can do it. If you still require assistance, then we have both our user guides, admin guides and our phone lines.

TL;DR Xerox says our products are almost idiot proof and virtually OS agnostic. The only thing that could give you trouble is PostScript but that's across all OSes and every manufacturer because PostScript.

A fuckton of today's graphical operating system bloat is due to backwards compatibility and complicated standards (HTML, DOCX, PDF, TIFF, SVG, etc.). If you didn't care about all of this, you could reimplement it all in a very compact manner. Alan Kay (the Smalltalk guy) did this as an experiment with a small team of programmers. The result was a full desktop environment and productivity suite in 20k lines. Read https://blog.regehr.org/archives/663. Windows 95 is NOT the limit.

>>61407263
Honestly I'd rather than a 4GB OS that can open a PDF correctly than a 4MB OS that can't.

>>61403530
Not that guy but every printer under the sun supports PCL. Not HPs fault that you're too thick to use a generic driver.

>>61400288
>>61400526
whats wrong with xp

>>61407316
Well, exactly. Being able to read a PDF is a reasonable thing to want, and that's how we ended up where we are today. You could have a bloat-free OS, but most people aren't willing to pay the price. And as soon as you start compromising on backwards compatibility and reusing existing libraries, you end with something that has more in common with a custom Debian installation than Alan Kay's project.

Small, clean, legacy-free operating systems are coming, but they're coming to the server, not the client.

>>61403172
Why copy Explorer when you can copy Total Commander.
http://doublecmd.sf.net

>>61391977
Windows 95 was also a primitive piece of unstable, insecure frankenstein shit from an era when networking was something for large enterprises and "multimedia" was being able to listen to music from a CD-ROM and system sounds with the same pair of speakers. All of those quality of life improvements like font anti-aliasing, multi-user support, sane hardware support and not crashing every other second due to shitty software stepping out of its boundaries adds up.
But >>61392067 is also right, there's some botnet shit and useless extras thrown in the mix as well.
>>61392894
They certainly don't, the best version of Firefox you can get on 95/NT4 is utter dog shit that's basically only good for wiki surfing and posting here, I use it all the time.
>>61397852
Why don't you go over and ask the Nekoware developers how that fabled modern Firefox port for IRIX is coming? These old systems are pretty damn limited when it comes to a modern network/media-centric use case. There's still plenty of shit they can do, but they sure as fuck can't do everything we do now. I've tried. A lot.

>>61391977
If you installed linux from scratch, you could get down to 10 MB or less for an absolutely minimal install.

>>61403172
Any of the KDE/GNOME/LXDE/XFCE/whatever file managers can do what windows explorer can, what fancy features are missing?
>inb4 thumbnails
The KDE and any other QT based file managers have that, plus the GTK versions are patched in arch linux.

>>61407166
t. drooling retard who knows nothing about security beyond regurgitating serious sounding buzzwords from FUD articles he barely understands

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>>61406754
you could use Microsoft Plus! to prettify your icons

>>61406754
>>61408926
He can't. He's running in low color mode because his VM doesn't emulate a supported card that does truecolor.

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>>61408926
also for whatever reason my virtual machine's buggy and producing 4 floppy drives. I remove them from device manager, but they keep coming back on reboots.

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>>61391977
if you go poking into the windows folder you'll find the main culprit of ballooning disk usage is a few things

>driver store
keep generic drivers for every god damn thing under the sun installed at all times so it "just werks" on at least a basic level. no longer do you need to download or install from CD a bundled driver for a device

>WinSxS
Side by side configuration keeps copies of every version of every .dll ever installed to prevent .dll hell. Including ones from old drivers. Nothing ever gets removed from this.

>windows update component store
install files (msi is a system-wide diff) for every patch ever installed so you can roll them back (you will never need this)

>feature payloads
every installer for every feature for every edition of windows in case you want to change/upgrade the type of your install.

>redundant versions of all of the above for x64 and x86

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>>61408969
oh, right. tried it in virtualbox a couple of hours ago and ran into that problem. couldn't be arsed to grab the driver from scitech or bearwindows, so I used virtual PC instead.

>>61392959
>3 drivers and a kernel patch take 16 gb

>>61396862
>ive never had any trouble with fonts on my archfu
found the guy that installs arch with Gnome

>>61392067
>backwards compatibility
You got that out of your ass didn't you?

>>61391977
my wangblows 7 use to take up 7GB. Now it takes up 70GB.

>>61393298
Peak KDE

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In theory OPIE can still be build.
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Palmtop_Integrated_Environment
http://opie.sourceforge.net/wiki/Features
https://github.com/opieproject/opie
It got some nice updates.
There is even the ability to run X11 Applications (if added to the build) but the API is pretty well documented http://opie.sourceforge.net/wiki/DocsHowTo so building native Applications shouldn't be to hard.

However I really just tried to build it myself and failed. "Qvaluestack.h 52:40:error" something.

It would be so cool if some anon would decide to revive this. It still uses the Qt-embedded-2.3.10 Version of the toolchain. Basically when it was still in the Hands of Trolltech. After Nokia aquired it, it went superbloat and post-Nokians take the bloat as how it is.

>>61393231
>nigger charity
>out of work and on government aid

This is so rich.
Social programs paying a bigot that can't help himself to help those that can't help themselves. A hand out is a hand out.

>>61397461
nothing wrong with books, but you shouldn't need one to install a fucking OS

>>61403172
Corral did when they made a Linux distro to compete with 1998. It came with word perfect and related office programs.

>>61397461
First installed linux in the late 90's. Pretty sure it was fedora. Can confirm even then I used the internet to figure it out. It was total shit back then, though, so I never stuck with it.

>>61391977
It also required 13 floppy disks.

>>61414712
Shit fedora was 2003. That makes sense, I was in high school.

Is Windows Me really as bad as everyone says?

>>61415946
not in my experience, i used it for 2 years

>>61410298
No, it actually comes with libraries designed to run older software (this is what is used to run programs in Windows XP mode for example).

>>61393297

Elon Musk comes to mind. What is the software that is running in the Tesla cars?

>>61397350
>Even the compiler libraries in modern dev environments are guilty. Create a completely basic hello world terminal program using cout in MSVC and the compiler will shit out an executable half a megabyte in size. C++ in general bloated the fuck out of everything
Wrong, maybe 50kb, and its easy enough to get that down to 4kb, literally one linker option.