Why did real competitors to PS fail and vanish so far?

still big enough to take care about the competition

Artists do not care about status of a product, not the quality

>>61387966
What are you talking about? CorelDraw does still exist.

>>61387966
What are you talking about?
There are still a couple of competitors that are doing well, stuff like Serif's Affinity suite etc.

Because Adobe always make best products, it's literally the Aryan race of software. Just look at Adobe Flash Player, it's a state of art

>>61387966
Because every other peace of software that I've tried can't into CMYK (hey, GIMP, why so much plugins?) or non-destructive editing, or warp grids, or some other feature that I need.

Because for many years It's an industry standart so when you create a project - you always have to be sure that any printing house could easily edit it when necessary

>>61388702
CD is not that great. Also it's a vector editor.

>>61388714
I have high hopes for these guys. Their software is already good for some low-tier projects.

>>61388714
>etc

It's pretty much only Affinity.

>Gimp
haha, no

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>>61388702
>CorelDraw does still exist.
>comparing a pixel editor with a vector based editor
this fucking board

>>61388668
what do they care about then?

>>61387966
>http://thebloomapp.com/purchase/
>doge meme
>costs money
in the trash it goes
does it even work on loonix?

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>What is Krita?

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>>61389976
It is a fucking PAINTING application.

Fucking hell, does anyone in here actually know anything about Photoshop?

no one dares to compete because they'd just get bought up and everyone will forget about them a month later and the opensource fags don't start something worthwhile because they actually think Gimp is good enough

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>>61389976
Why are the edges of the circles in the UI so poorly antialiased? How did they manage to properly antialias the inside edge of the color wheel but not the outside edge?

Why should trust a graphics program that can't even get its own UI to look right?

>>61390054
Krita is OpenGL based so I guess they didn't care about perfecting that part and UI texture antialiasing isn't implemented yet

>>61390098
Why does being OpenGL based mean you don't care if your UI looks like shit?

How can you AA one edge of a graphic and not another edge of the same graphic if AA "isn't implemented"?

>>61390144
Ask them then. I'm not a fucking Krita team member.
Since they work with crowdfunding I guess they have the priorities on getting other shit to work and don't care about details like this

>>61390180
>I guess they have the priorities on getting other shit to work and don't care about details like this
That's fine

And hey, the next time you wonder why people use photoshop instead of this, you'll know the answer already

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I've tried a bunch fo PS alternatives and none of them have all the features that PS has. But most of the time, you don't need all the features so it's OK to use one of the other programs.

I've tried Krita and GIMP, for example, but both are buggy. GIMP also works nothing like PS so it's incredibly hard to get used to it. It also has a shitton of WTF behaviors that will drive you insane if you know PS.

My favorite PS alternatives that have worked really well for me are Pixelmator and Affinity Pro. Both are a fraction of the PS price, you don't have to pay for the subscription, and they work just like PS and are "logical" (to me anyway).

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>>61390255
here's the Affinity Photo screenshot.

I can recommend both of these alternatives. They work really well. Which of them is better is a preference. I like Pixelmator a bit more because it's older and more stable.

>>61389976
Garbage that runs inconsistently and isn't actually used by anyone

>>61387966
Because PS4 is the best balance beetween price / multiplatform / exclusives.

Ecosystem. All tutorials are in Photoshop. Everyone learns to do digital art stuff in Photoshop.

>>61387966
GIMP is better than Photoshop desu

>>61390144
Because freetards are tasteless bullshitters

>>61390255
> I dont like GIMP because it's not a copy of PS

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>>61390255

Gimp fucking lost me on that layer border faggotry.
For example you make a new layer, draw something and you want to move the stuff on that layer to the side and paint on the other side. In Photoshop the layers are borderless and you can just paint fucking everywhere meanwhile in Gimp you first have to enlarge the boarders to the overall canvas to be able to draw in the new area again.

Then I wanted to add some text and when I wanted to narrow down the line spacing a bit it changed like 3px down and then THE SPACING GOT BIGGER while the numbers were actually still going more and more into the negative.
That's when I fucking shut down the fucking process and threw that shit from my PC.

There's simply too much every day stuff that SIMPLY DOES NOT WORK IT IS SUPPOSED TO in Gimp and it is enraging.

>>61390054
who the fuck even notices this shit? jesus

>>61390641
artists, lol

>>61390615
yep. Sometimes GIMP is hilariously bad.
Free software shills shouldn't make it's their frontrunner.

Loonix needs Affinity tools not to be absolute peasants

>>61390615
that is not a layer problem, it is a selection problem.
You can select stuff based on area or color or whatever and then only apply stuff to that area.

>>61390683
>I want free stuff.
>As good as proprietary.
>Wtf stop being peasants.
Ha
Haha
Hahahahahahahahahaha

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>>61390683
Sadly, this will never ever happen.

A developer on the Serif forum actually said that the costs of making it work under Linux and also keep developing it with Linux also in mind would be way too much for such a small marketshare OS (home Linux usage is around 2% apparently).
He joked that if the community pays the bill they will do it but otherwise this will not happen.

Sadly, it doesn't seem to work in Wine and I got a lot of stuff to run under Wine.

>>61390734
I said nothing about free
Affinity tools are paid. So they would be paid on Linux as well, and that'd be fine.

You don't have good paid software. You don't have good software to begin with.

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From what I can see the only hope for Linux are those browser based applications that run literally everywhere.

Which is a shame because doing actual work in a browser is disgusting.

>>61390793
Oh, if they're paid they've really got no excuse. Is their team just too small or what?

>>61390598
GIMP is simply not logical. Say you pick color with a color picker and then you use some other tool, that tool will have its own color. No other program works that way. It's just fucking stupid. There's hundreds of other examples.

>>61390615
you've nailed it. Turning off layer boundaries is 1st thing I do when starting it up and it always comes back after the restart. GIMP is just infuriating to use.
And keyboard shortcuts... holy fuck, talk about inconsistency. some tools require a single letter and some need a ctrl. and they are not like PS either.

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>>61390793
>Affinity tools are paid. So they would be paid on Linux as well, and that'd be fine.

Only a fraction of the 2% who use Linux need tools like Photoshop or Serif Affinity in this case.
They won't fucking develop for 2000 users who bought the software for $60 a pop.

>>61390762
it seems that the only 2 things that can benefit linux users are:

Some other new software that's actually competent enough

or

Much better compatibility on WINE for the adobe suite to the point that it's a better experience than just using a virtual machine.

I tried Illustrator less a year ago and it was truly a nightmare.

>>61390849
>I tried Illustrator less a year ago and it was truly a nightmare.
It seems like there was a big leap happening with Wine since I was able to get some stuff to run with the latest version of it that wouldn't run at all before, even in 64bit.

So there's still hope.

>>61390846
2% seems generous to me, honestly. When I see Linux setups I see different text editors and maybe GIMP. How many artists are even base Linux? Seems like it's all programmers to me. I could see it used for in-house tools though, like really big budget Disney/Pixar projects where they need something you can't find anywhere else, so they develop it on Linux and either port it or keep it secure on one or two machines.

>>61390826
>that tool will have its own color.
Not sure what you mean.

>select red
>use brush tool. it's red
>switch to pen tool. it's red
>switch to bucket fill. it's red
>switch to airbrush. it's red.

>>61390889
Is that before a year before or more than that?

>>61390897
>How many artists are even base Linux?
That's the thing.
If there were JUST A HANDFUL of rock solid programs, a lot more people would use Linux.

Gimp openly sees itself as PS alternative while lots of things are either set up in complete different ways without a real reason or just aren't there. Compared to Krita the development is also LAUGHABLY slow and instead of Krita using that development power to become a real Photoshop contender they prefer to keep it a paint application only to not fuck with the (stagnating) Gimp. This is also really idiotic since there are TONS of Paint applications that are really cheap, powerful AND are cheap (SAI and ClipStudio, 40 bucks or something and insanely good). Meanwhile Krita could really stand out as PS alternative.

Music production is also a fucking nightmare in Linux. The applications available seem to get slowly better but setting low latency sound and midi up will take you LOTS of time and hair that you will rip out from your head.

In terms of 3D modeling Blender is truly a marvelous program compared to what you have for other creative areas in Linux but even that was more or less just luck since Blender was set up pretty much platform independent from the start.

>>61391060
I'm pretty sure most of the Blender's community don't even use Linux. Blender's userbase is on Windows and Macs. They make Linux version because they can... they've been cross-platform from the start.

>>61390014
Not only, it has all features for image editing.

>>61391060
>>61391094
This seriously feels like an sponsored anti-linux thread. Just gonna put some pasta here:
Kicad
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCG4daPvuVI
Natron
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2MvbfuITT8
Blender
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDRTjzLNK0g
Krita
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raKHHFv4nN8
Krita
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEoJgQAfb5Y
Lightworks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7znIHsyqfm0
Kdenlive
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8hO4K7mZG4
Unity3D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4BUcIDdpAM
Opentoonz
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGFUtqM8oAs
Godot engine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dqumdhqy8Uw
BricsCAD VS Autocad
http://cad.softwareinsider.com/compare/5-10/AutoCAD-vs-BricsCAD
Bricscad
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4eLM3NrOJms
Freecad Demo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XW0AqKG5zI
Freecad BIM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qmjz6WXyWBY
Freecad & 3D printing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqZeThC38ug
Gimp 2.10 features
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D5RIveQypgw
How to install photoshop on wine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-Mo3GTcOQ4
Digikam
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnk_VzedqlU
Pixar Film Production
https://youtu.be/JmH4KYcmHOo
Linux art 1
http://www.sylvia-ritter.com/new-gallery/
Linux art 2
http://www.peppercarrot.com/
Davinci Resolve
https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/davinciresolve

>>61387966
Because making an image editior like photoshop is hard and costs tons of money. Photoshop has been the standard for almost 30 years, you can't just come in and claim to be better, you actually have to be better.

>>61391142
some more pasta because i know the games argument will arise at some moment:
Not him but the no games argument is not true anymore. Windows is the best os for gaming mostly due to most game developers are trained into developing for it with microsoft's closed APIs, so the simple process of porting a game that was developed for windows to any other platform will affect negatively the performance of the game. This with the fact that the marketshare is small compared to windows there's hardly an incentive at the moment to optimize for linux, making look as if the platform were worse for games than windows when in fact to flip the situation you'll need to change the idiosyncrasies on the industry itself.

The fact though is that the situation on linux is not nearly the same than two years ago and now those who prefer linux over windows now can play games on it, helping to break the vicious circle, but still there's a lot of things to do for linux to compete in the gaming side. I anyone wants for this to change i recommend to play the games you can on linux when possible and ask for linux ports.

I notice some people doesn't want's for this to happen but if that the case let me ask (not directed specifically to the person i'm replying): how are any of you benefited in a meaningful way with the current situation? because i consider that keeping the statu quo just to have a tool to win an argument on what OS is better is not a meaningful thing. how having less options and practically being locked to MS products benefits you?

Some links:
https://steamdb.info/linux/
http://store.steampowered.com/search/?category1=998&os=linux
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXr8bqzf45Y
https://www.youtube.com/user/tuxreviews/videos
https://www.youtube.com/user/airspeedmph
https://www.youtube.com/user/Jakejw93/videos
https://www.youtube.com/user/mrdeathjr28/videos
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWZvwhwT1Sk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9gsu_YWUzE

>>61391163
do you have a pasta to prevent a /pol/ discussion from starting?

>>61391180
>do you have a pasta to prevent a /pol/ discussion from starting?
I just think people deserves to see the other side of the coin, i'm sorry if this disrupts the circlejerk.

>>61391142
>>61391163
There's a certain amount of irony

>>61390054
>>61390144
>>61390216
>>61390489
>>61390641
Honestly i don't know if this is a new level of genuine autism or if it's just people desperate to look down on something to make themselves feel better due to a mindless rivalry. Do you guys honestly how manage to look at every little detail and magnify it as much as possible while giving dozens of free passes to bullshit coming from companies like Microsoft or Adobe?

>>61391224
Elaborate please, or it's just a bluff?

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Reminder that every time you open an image in Photoshop, it checks if it's an image of a banknote. Who knows what else it does.

>>61391142
>>61391163
>look at all this shit we have!
>a bunch of programs that offer nothing significant that their Windows/OSX counterparts don't and some games from 1995
>most of the above mentioned pieces of software are also available on Windows/OSX, so there's absolutely no reason for anyone to switch unless they feel like giving up all the software that still isn't available for Linux
Wow dude, you sure showed them.

>>61391060
>>61391094
using linux as a 3d dev is needlessly making your life difficult. regardless of what blender is capable of you will inevitably end up moving assets outside into a seperate package for refinement or accomplishing things blender simply cant (uv management / texturing / zbrush utilities etc). Depending on where you work, blender cant interface with reference files the rest of your team is working on so you'll just end up booting into windows anyway to drop shit in maya/max/unreal whatever.

im no adobe shill but ps is here to stay because most competent artists utilize the image editing capabilities that ps carries somewhere in their pipeline. sai krita and gimp(lol) might have competent drawing tools but once you start fucking with value balancing or most basic transformation tools youll want ps to speed up the process. why use another program if youre going to find yourself in ps later, just save yourself the time and finish everything in one program.

as far as 3d is concerned youll usually find yourself opening your tifs tgas exrs etc in photoshop to check on things which i know sai doesnt support but cant speak for krita gimp etc. most packages also support psds and dont offer support for any other packages' native codec

adobes pricing is horrendous and i hate it but were all cucked until a better package hits the market and you convince everyone else to integrate it

dont get me started on mac shills

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>>61391142
>This seriously feels like an sponsored anti-linux thread.
>WAAH WAAAH, THEY'RE NOT LICKING THE TUX BUTT AND QUESTION THINGS

People like you make it actually difficult when an actual shill thread comes along.

There, I will say it more clearly
>Blender
Great
>Freecad
Very, very good
>Krita
Really awesome
>Gimp
A fucking joke
>Music production on Linux
A nightmare

There are some things that still keep many people (especially creative ones) from Linux and the Linux community is too fucking stubborn to fucking REALIZE THIS PROBLEM AND TACKLE IT and rather just scream "shillllllsss" and/or even resort to personal insults

>>61391321
>look at all this shit we have!
We do, good dank shit in fact ;)

>a bunch of programs that offer nothing significant that their Windows/OSX counterparts don't and some games from 1995
And here you just show all your butt hurt, congratulations, now it's pretty clear you just do this out of a petty rivalry with no significant arguments. It just hurts you so much people showing proof of the bullshit and the exaggeration.

>most of the above mentioned pieces of software are also available on Windows/OSX, so there's absolutely no reason for anyone to switch unless they feel like giving up all the software that still isn't available for Linux
No one is trying to convert you so calm down my friend and stop thinking about this like if it were a tribal war, that way you may get a better judgment.

>>61391163
Dragon's dogma is not on Linux, that post is irrelevant

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>>61391358
>We do, good dank shit in fact ;)
>dank

such hip, so community!

>>61391358
>And here you just show all your butt hurt
What? It's a fact that the vast majority of the stuff you listed is inferior to their commercial Windows/OSX counterparts.

>Surely you're a Microsoft shill! You can't point out the inferiority of Linux alternatives unless you want Linux to stay irrelevant!
Yeah, that's what it is. I like spending money so much that I have decided to launch a crusade against Linux. It has nothing to do with the fact that the available Linux alternatives are years behind the competition as far as features and general usability goes.

>>61391342
>WAAH WAAAH, THEY'RE NOT LICKING THE TUX BUTT AND QUESTION THINGS
Dude, you literally cannot criticize Microsoft in any way in this board because immediately the sills will tell you that if you're criticizing Microsoft for any reason it must be because you're not a professional and that you must be a neet and that's all their argument. Honestly it's hard to not believe there's actual shills in this place, the feeling of being advertised is just hard to ignore.

>There, I will say it more clearly
I don't have any problem with your opinions. The evidence is there's an everyone can make their own conclusions.

>There are some things that still keep many people (especially creative ones) from Linux and the Linux community is too fucking stubborn to fucking REALIZE THIS PROBLEM AND TACKLE IT and rather just scream "shillllllsss" and/or even resort to personal insults.
The problems are being tackled, in fact i don't see a reason to berate the work of people who is doing something with the best intentions. Try to justify that, you can't. As i said people sees this as a mindless tribal war, you're completely blind if you pretend personal insults and thrash-talking doesn't comes from the other side in the same or in my own experience even bigger amounts.

>>61389895
rule 34

>>61391358
Blender, Freecad and Krita are relevant, the rest of Linux art-related software is crap

>>61391142
>production houses dont manage shit in blender
>natron is a shitty nuke
>gimp is shitty photoshop
>unity
>"bricscad is like rhino but better huhrrr"
>muhmuh muh pixar
this is the only compelling point but its important to note that the vast majority of software employed by illumination/dreamworks/pixar etc is developed and supported in house and not available for public or commercial use: see apollo etc

i dont work at a big animation house but im more than willing to bet these rigs were modeled/rigged textured in your household autodesk apps

>>61391386
>Dragon's dogma is not on Linux, that post is irrelevant
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvOa9__SM5Y

Now, there's a lot of console exclusives that are not on windows, guess what? with your logic you just made windows gaming irrelevant, congratulations. So what about letting fanboyism aside and to accept that linux now has a respectable amount of games and that is growing as a platform despite who much this may hurt the pride of some people?.

how are any of you benefited in a meaningful way with the current situation? because i consider that keeping the statu quo just to have a tool to win an argument on what OS is better is not a meaningful thing. how having less options and practically being locked to MS products benefits you?

>>61391322
The thing is, if no one tries to break out of that loop they actually will stay the #1 and can dictate all kinds of stupid shit.

That's why people try to use alternative ways which is a good thing.
A real Photoshop contender is a KEY APPLICATION.
Blender alone is capable of incredibly many things (you can even edit video footage really well in it) and having Gimp in a Blender workflow makes Gimp a fucking bottleneck.

Affinity Photo in Linux would be the fucking solution but yes, won't happen. Krita getting branched into a Gimp alternative and probably something incredibly better will probably also not happen since apparently they suck too much Gimp dev dick.

>>61391505
elaborate please? or it's just sour grapes because this endanger the perceived superiority of windows?

>>61389895
They don't care about software. At all. They want to do art and they do it using whatever everyone is using and whatever they try first.

>>61391536
It's not an OS thing, quality art software is on windows/mac. The developers and the vast majority of artists don't give a crap about Linux.

>>61391512
>production houses dont manage shit in blender
Nice claim, this is a devil's proof, but i know, now you'll pretend you work on that and that among all your years of experience you've practically never seen blender being used.

>natron is a shitty nuke
>gimp is shitty photoshop
>unity
Elaborate or else it's just hot opinions.

>"bricscad is like rhino but better huhrrr"
What? i never said that, does looking at that video endangers the perceived superiority of windows and that's why you feel the need to disregard it?

>muhmuh muh pixar
What? does it hurt you to see that?

>i dont work at a big animation house but im more than willing to bet these rigs were modeled/rigged textured in your household autodesk apps
Ok, so i bet you're wrong.

>>61391583
>It's not an OS thing, quality art software is on windows/mac. The developers and the vast majority of artists don't give a crap about Linux.
ok, if you say so, the evidence is still there tho so your claim becomes a devil's proof.

How do you open the circle tool in GIMP?

>>61391619
Gimp could have been perfect if they tried to emulate Photoshop, but since they're retards, they created their own snowflake bubble and did shitty things that Photoshop managed out years ago.

>>61391505
>>61391536
>>61391574
blender is the red headed stepchild of 3d because it doesnt do anything that other packages cant at the expense of 10s of hours of readjustment and stepping way outside of the rest of your teams pipeline. having your software be copacetic with the td and the rest of the team is paramount, there are some great vdc conferences you can watch about this issue.
case in point: i dont work in blender because i do better modeling in zbrush and better animation in maya in a fraction of the time. blender offers nothing these programs dont except an initial pricepoint and i dont think perpetually putting yourself 3 steps behind the game is worth saving yourself a couple hundred bucks

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>>61391536
>elaborate please?
It is painfully obvious when you come from PS to Gimp or from Cubase/ProTools/AbletonLive/FLStudio to LMMS and Ardour and even worse, from ASIO to the whole measly documented audio subsystem of Linux. JACK has some really interesting and great solutions to a lot of stuff but setting all up just to a BASE level to make things just work like a base installation anywhere else takes a lot of time and often there's no help when something does not work or things are simply not documented at all.

The older you get the less time you have to spend on things that could be done a lot quicker in a different way and if you're a professional you also think more in terms of "time = money" which will also naturally lead you to stuff that works right out of the box, no matter which OS.

>>61391722
I forgot to meantion that Bitwig seems to be really well though but that won't help you with setting up the audio and midi.

>>61391521
>Now, there's a lot of console exclusives that are not on windows
Mostly handheld games. There's very few console exclusives specially now that MS decided to put every single Xbox One game on PC. There's no comparison to be made because you get 1 in maybe 10 AAA releases, if that. And sometimes they take years to release, like Saints Row IV. When that was ported to linux, nobody gave a shit. Not a single person. Because it was old and shitty. Also games like The Witcher 2 had a port. Well, a wrapper which works like absolute garbage. So they gave up with TW3 which is one of the best RPGs around.

In all seriousness nowadays you don't even get 50% of new indie game releases, which is absurd since most of your games are indie.

What you need is decent drivers and decent APIs, you're not going to push someone to the side when they get less performance and nowadays every game that comes out makes people try to actively look for ways to run their shit faster, not slower.

Also that video you posted highlights the issues. A 290X not capable of running this shit at stable 60FPS in the overworld when a 280X is capable? I have a very similar setup and I wouldn't play with that hitching. Why would I switch to linux for that?

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>>61391648
Gimp does not have shape tools like krita or inkscape.

>GIMP is not designed to be used for drawing.[4] However, you may create shapes by either painting them using the technique described in Section 14.1, “Drawing a Straight Line” or by using the selection tools.

https://docs.gimp.org/en/gimp-using-rectangular.html

The shape tools are for creating selections, however any selection can be either stroked or transformed into a path. For creating a circle or an oval just use the oval selection tool (press shift for an 1:1 ratio like in any other program), then with a pair of clicks you can use the shapes panel to convert it into a path and troke it if you want. Of course you can stroke the path more times or transform it of you want.
The webm shows how to stroke an oval (or circle if you press shift).

Also there's a plugin to create shapes with parameters:
http://registry.gimp.org/node/59

However i don't discard they may add tools for shapes in the furture because they added support for the "my paint" brush engine in the development versions.
https://wiki.gimp.org/wiki/Roadmap

>>61391763
That's the joke. There's no reason to use a Photoshop "alternative" that lacks basic features. Anyone serious about productivity will just consider it a waste of their time to fuck around switch between multiple programs or installing plugins just to do shit that other software does right out of the box.

>>61391663
>blender offers nothing these programs dont

Boxmodelling is incredibly fast in Blender and defintely a fuckton faster than anywhere else but I guess you're right that in the long run the tools of other programs make you COMPLETE the whole project a lot quicker.

So if your projects are fairly minimal, you can be quicker in Blender but otherwise advanced or medium big projects will take longer.

>>61391663
Blender's UI is very nonstandard, I'll give you that, but once you use it for a long time (like I have assumed you have used your tools of choice) it's quite efficient, especially since all the tools are under the umbrella of a single program so they all fit together very well. If you're doing solo work or your entire team uses blender, it's great. Look at the open movie projects.

>>61391358
please stop this, you won't win anyone over this way

>>61391505
OpenSCAD is great for procedural stuff. Inkscape is good enough to work with, kdenlive is comparable to premiere from my limited experience, and Linux has lightworks and davinci now.

>>61391722
Renoise is great if you like tracker based DAWs, and I never had any problems setting up JACK. Pulseaudio passthrough even worked out of the box.

>>61391763
Gimp's UI decisions are pants on head retarded. As soon as krita gets better and more intuitive text and selection tools, there will be literally no reason to use gimp.

Really, it all comes down to the tools you're most familiar with. Use and learn the industry standard stuff if you plan on getting a real job with it, but if you're a hobbyist or do solo work, the tools are there. Some of them have rough edges (and some do things better than their proprietary counterparts) but I'd rather support an open source project than a proprietary one, given that I'm not sacrificing significant features.

>>61391762
>Mostly handheld games.
>There's very few console exclusives specially now that MS decided to put every single Xbox One game on PC.
not true: https://gematsu.com/exclusives

>There's no comparison to be made because you get 1 in maybe 10 AAA releases, if that.
True, linux needs more AAA games to break the vicious circle. That doesn't mean the ones available are bad.

>And sometimes they take years to release, like Saints Row IV. When that was ported to linux
Yep, but things are getting better.

>nobody gave a shit. Not a single person. Because it was old and shitty
Why so strong feelings against linux becoming a viable platform for games? in what way having more options hurts you?

>Also games like The Witcher 2 had a port. Well, a wrapper which works like absolute garbage.
It got fixed eventually and currently Eon has good performance in general although this depends on the game.

>So they gave up with TW3 which is one of the best RPGs around.
True, it's sad but the more people uses linux this can be fixed.

>In all seriousness nowadays you don't even get 50% of new indie game releases, which is absurd since most of your games are indie.
And? This is just a competition to show superiority? if that's so you win, linux is not even near to compete with linux regarding games. Now the question is, now that you win what did you earned by berating linux?

>What you need is decent drivers and decent APIs,
Since valve entered in the field the drivers made huge strides and the APIs improved a lot. Make some research.

>ou're not going to push someone to the side when they get less performance and nowadays every game that comes out makes people try to actively look for ways to run their shit faster, not slower.
True, this would be pretty bad if games were the only reason to use a computer. Don't worry, i'm not trying to push you even when linux users has something to win with a higher marketshare.

>>61391845
>As soon as krita gets better and more intuitive text and selection tools
I'm not informed about the current development. Is improving the text tools on the table right now?

>>61391875
Text tool is being worked on now and I think it's going to be included in the 4.0 release, so it will be sometime in the next few weeks most likely.

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>>61391902
Fuck yea, I'm hyped

>>61391871
>Also that video you posted highlights the issues. A 290X not capable of running this shit at stable 60FPS in the overworld when a 280X is capable? I have a very similar setup and I wouldn't play with that hitching.
AMD had always problems compared to Nvidia on linux but those drivers has matured over the time, look at phoronix if you want to be informed about that kind of developments instead of parroting what you heard on /g/.

>Why would I switch to linux for that?
Don't do it, decide that by yourself. I have a question, linux users has clearly something to win with a higher marketshare which is better support and no need to depend on windows. However windows users has something to lose considering their support is guaranteed due to it's huge marketshare? do you have a good reason to berate linux or it's just a tribal thing?

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>>61388668

this is probably the most autistic thing i've read on /g/

professional artists and designers work in a pipeline (consisting of many disciplines, most of which adobe has software for) which requires documents and assets to be constantly updated and reiterated on throughout the whole process based on in house or client feedback

>>61391921
found it
>We’re still working on the new text tool. We got the basics working only last week, but that isn’t in these development builds yet. It’s too rough for even that!
https://krita.org/en/item/first-development-builds-for-krita-4-0/

>>61391845
>please stop this, you won't win anyone over this way
Ok, are you able to justify what the other people thrash-talking is doing then? I don't care what you think i think the bullshit deserver to be called out, sorry if i misunderstood you, but you know, this is /g/.

>Gimp's UI decisions are pants on head retarded. As soon as krita gets better and more intuitive text and selection tools, there will be literally no reason to use gimp.
Ok, why don't you talk with the developers and make some propositions, just don't have the same attitude that the other guys in this thread.

>Really, it all comes down to the tools you're most familiar with. Use and learn the industry standard stuff if you plan on getting a real job with it, but if you're a hobbyist or do solo work, the tools are there. Some of them have rough edges (and some do things better than their proprietary counterparts) but I'd rather support an open source project than a proprietary one, given that I'm not sacrificing significant features.
I agree completely with you.

>>61391845
i dont have an issue with nonstandard ui, zbrush has an indefensible ui but its tolerable soley because its subd modeling workflow is superior to anything else on the market and 4r8s vector displacement applications only widen the gap. im fond of blender as a beginners package but from a learning perspective you are better off biting the bullet and using industry standard tools

the key takeaway from this thread is irregardles of how create you think your alternative software might be (it probably isnt), it doesnt see use commercially because you're slowing down the rest of your team by using nonstandard techniques. Unless your package offers something leading competitors cant, there isnt a good reason to bother your td about it, they have enough to worry about.

im all for pursuing alternative programs, but i don't invest time in something that doesn't promise speeding up my workflow. example: i just picked up marvelous because their sims are great and it offers solutions to a lot of issues traditional packages cant solve right now. It's worth adopting. I'm not jumping into linux unless it can cut down my dev time.

What's the most important thing in the Free software? It's free. It comes at no cost and with no liabilities, data mining or legal burden.
Companies can afford these costs. Companies can protect themselves from data mining. Companies know their rights and have their lawyers.
And THE BEST companies need THE BEST tools that exist on the market. So it happens that, for companies, wit all costs accounted, these proprietary software products that you see all around are the best. And if you want to work in the best company, you have to be familiar with the best tools. And they are not free for you.

>>61392019
>Ok, are you able to justify what the other people thrash-talking is doing then? I don't care what you think i think the bullshit deserver to be called out, sorry if i misunderstood you, but you know, this is /g/.
If you trash talk them back it's like feeding the fire and you lose.

> Ok, why don't you talk with the developers and make some propositions, just don't have the same attitude that the other guys in this thread.
People have tried to do this but the gimp devs are too stubborn for their own good. People have forked it before but the forks died.

>>61392050
It doesn't see wide commercial use because everyone's already standardized on the current software. As it stands, there aren't huge technical barriers for many of the FOSS alternatives, it's an adoption and interoperability issue, which would be solved by wider use.
In the end, your skills as an artist matter a lot more than the tools you're using anyway. Any amount of speed lost or gained by your tools is going to massively overshadowed by your skills.

>>61392018
Very nice. Now lets hope it will be as good as we hope and also not take years

>>61391902
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swHBg91k8zo
>Awesome review! I am the main UI designer right now with Krita and I will see what I can do about those suggestions. Especially the ones about the scrollbar contrast and hovering over the sliders. The mouse wheel point might need some discussion with artists as different people have different preferences with things like that. It at least needs to be easier to change though in the preferences. The shortcut configuration could be improved.

>For the text and vector tools...what you were playing with is actually the broken-ish, terrible, text tools that were already there. With the power of Kickstarter, we will be converting our vector format to SVG, adding a few features, and doing some UI/UX improvements to make it easier to use. We have quite a bit of work done on the vector tools, but still need to do quite a bit on the text tools. They should be pretty nice when they are done.

>Keep up the good work!

>>61392160
And this is why we love Krita and shit about Gimp.

>>61392080
>What's the most important thing in the Free software? It's free. It comes at no cost and with no liabilities, data mining or legal burden.
Well, to be fair any kind of software is only as good as the people who manages or bundles it. There's nothing that prevents a person from forking a piece of open source software and to distribute it modified with malicious purpose on other channels the same way proprietary software doesn't need to implement bullshit just for being proprietary. The big advantage for me is that everyone has the same right over open source software (unless there's a CLA, but this generally affects only contributors) so if one person goes batshit crazy other people can continue developing the software without the bad parts. Also because everyone can see the development and the code that's a bid deterrent for hiding shit in the code, remember what happened when the developers of debian found that chromium downloads a blob that keeps hearing the microphone? This is what is important, to constantly scrutinize.

Sinche GIMP and Krita are Open Source, why you aren't fixing them? You lazy biggots. Open source community lacks of artists.

>>61391763
You know, the joke in this webm is, that the circle isn't 100% perfect. More height than width.
Gimp users can't even draw a real circle.

>>61392125
>If you trash talk them back it's like feeding the fire and you lose.
You're right in that sense, but i still think their bullshit deserves to be called out. This people is not being constructive and unless they calm their tits i don't think there's a good reason to be nice to them until they learn some empathy. If they want to keep feeding their confirmation bias that "linux users are mean" based on their self fulfilling prophecy then there's nothing i can say to make them behave.

>People have tried to do this but the gimp devs are too stubborn for their own good. People have forked it before but the forks died.
Ok, but that doesn't prevents you from trying to talk to them, just remember to be nice because if you're this person: >>61391321
then your post honestly was not constructive and if you got offended by my next reply you deserved it. Don't do the same to other people who is only trying their best.

>>61392183
You are absolutely right! But companies give absolutely no fuck about the development process, they need the end product. And they regularly check each other through various audits. If they find a binary blob listening to microphone when it's not allowed to in your product - they'll just sue you and win, so it's in your interest to keep everything clean and nice.

>>61392264
Yeah, being nice on 4chan surely will fix Gimp's shitty UI

>>61392125
This isnt really true. Industry standard applications change all of the time based on their relative utility. Zbrush dethroned other modeling packages in the late 2000s, housing recently dethroned Maya and Max for vfx and Sims, hell Maya even dethroned max to an extent because it has superior animation utility and they're both supported by the same company. Blender isn't seeing industry adoption because the doors are closed, it's not being adopted because it's not the best choice .
Your point about user skill is fairly moot, aside from stating the obvious it sort of falls apart when you consider how long it takes to move into a new package. I have two week deadlines and I can't jump into a new program and expect to perform as well as I did in my previous package immediately, there's a learning curve. The jump from package to package is only justified by long term benefit

>>61392226
Learn to read dude, i made clear that if you press shift you can make a circle, if you pause the video yuou can even give the aspect ratio manually, obviously a circle is an 1:1 aspect ratio. Do you have any other argument or you're just trying to pull a weak attempt to troll?

>>61392286
>Yeah, being nice on 4chan surely will fix Gimp's shitty UI
Wasn't you meant to reply >>61392125 ?

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>>61392329
yeah, sorry about that

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>>61392345
no problem

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>amtlib.dll
>Block every exe from accessing the internet
Wow that was hard

>>61392286
https://gui.gimp.org/index.php?title=GIMP_GUI_Redesign

Huh, there was a redesign effort.

>https://gui.gimp.org/index.php?title=Design_guide

>A growing guide
>3 edits

Free software seems to lack vitality. There are short bursts of energy here and there, random sparks of inspiration, and then nothing. Everything is kinda usable but kinda sucks. How can we change this?

>>61392429
>How can we change this?
Maybe taking a look at the development and modding the shit out of it

>>61392426
Hello, this is your ISP. We'd like to discuss a file you donwloaded from the following website:
www.thepiratebay.org

>>61392429
>How can we change this?
Why don't you try to communicate with them?

>>61387966
Photo Affinity is the best competitor to PS right now and doesn't seem to be dying.

Acorn and Pixelmator will probably die though

>>61392305
You're probably right, although I have a feeling support contracts are another big reason. I wonder if the blender foundation offered official support contracts they'd see more adoption?
I don't know enough about different packages to definitively say that blender offers significant advantages. I would say that it won't hold you back, and there are actually companies out there you can find work at using blender so it's not like you have no career options with it. Also blender has been "mature" for a fairly short amount of time, it only got out of beta a few years ago, so I expect to see it climb the ladder over the next decade or so.

>>61387966
Paint.net is the best free pixel editior.

>>61392460
>>61392479
I, too, lack vitality. Full-time development job leaves no mental capacity or any desire to think about software, browsing /g/ and buying cool shit is the most complicated thing I'm able to do.

>>61392835
We need to get a simple job and juice our creativity on dev projects

>>61392479
I can spend this evening trying to communicate with them, or I can polish off a paying job in Photoshop and cover renewing CC through the end of the year. A couple months of contributions is about where I'd start to feel comfortable making big changes to GIMP, and a couple months of working instead will pay for everything Adobe makes for the rest of my working life.

>>61392851
Or no job at all, juicing all of our creativity on it. Living on a universal income that only free software developers get. I'll go talk to ethereum guys, they like to invest in weird shit.

>>61393010
You can also do your job in Photoshop and then donate monies and request features that you most like in Photoshop.

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>>61393227
>Living on a universal income that only free software developers get. I'll go talk to ethereum guys, they like to invest in weird shit.
Fuck off Stallman.

>>61393227
Why would I pay for both when PS is better and cheaper? I'd need to hire a team of fulltime devs working for a couple years just to catch up, and that's a lot more than $50 a month.

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>>61387966
Move aside superior Japanese program coming through.

>>61387966
probably due to sheer momentum

>>61393466
Nice text tool, faggot.

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>>61387966
Adobe finetunes user experience and it's almost a standard when it comes to how the user use tools or how some tools behave or at least what expectations the user has with using those tools.
Enter new people trying to reinvent the wheel and they all will always fail because the wheel works and it works because there wasn't anything new you need to add or change.
In fact the only time I've seen Adobe change mayor changes was when Macromedia was their competition and they actually came up with good solutions and workflows and after resisting for a while Adobe just bought them and made hybrids or straight up got some tools to behave the same way they behaved with the original Macromedia product.
GIMP isn't bad, but it has tier shit user interface and sometimes it seems nobody that is actually working on it gives a fuck about it. It's like they build the tool, they know how it works or how to actually make it work and they just don't give a fuck about who will be using this.

>>61393496
I appreciate the fine art that is shodou.

>>61393253
Consider them public workers, just of the digital world. If I could, I'd lay off a few useless beurocrats and pay free software developers instead.
>>61393378
You don't pay for both, you pay for PS to do your job and you pay to make development of free tools faster. Because it's not like they've stopped development altogether, GIMP may eventually catch up with the photoshop 2017... in 2027 or so. But if everyone chips in - things may change. Can a rich non-profit organization be sued for headhunting a few top Photoshop developers or designers to work on a free competing project? I may have a plan.

>>61392538
blender has some interesting tools to be sure, every blender person ive had conversation with has had lots of positive things to say. sadly the conversation usually ends with them talking about the different packages they jump into to finish or polish certain assets.
I cant speak for larger companies but for the smaller nyc companies ive had the pleasure of being in pay for their licences out of pocket. Freeware is great but it unfortunently lacks the level paid development and support that proprietary software can provide. im anticipating its greater application but i do not see it becoming ubiquitous among professionals. thats not necessarily a bad thing.

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>>61393530
>macromedia
Crap, I remember that shit. All of their products were suppoused to be web-based (Fireworks for example had a nice workflow for designing websites and exporting optimized pngs), and Adobe was print-based. Simply, Adobe won because they were kinda sponsored by the design industry, and they acquired all the technology from MM.
Now they're unstoppable, Photoshop is literally meant for every job you can think of., and do the job amazingly

>all these posts
>no mention that adobe owns patents on everything that makes photoshop what it is
lol a real competitor doesn't exist simply because it can't

>>61393575
gimp nativly supporting exrs would be a boon to most 3d devs, thats a big issue with me personally

>>61393628
But can you be sued for making a free competing product with no intent of making profit whatsoever? Patents are public, anyone should be able to try and reproduce what is described.

>>61389893
this is why I only stick 2 or 3 daily threads on here.

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>>61393680
Patents are public specifically because it's a deal between society and then inventor - "document exactly what you did and we won't let anyone else do that for 25 years". You get to see them so at 25 years and 1 day you can roll out your copy, and so before that you know what to avoid.

That said, while there are some interesting and creative features in Photoshop that are patented, GIMP is so hilariously far from that point that it doesn't matter.
It's like getting pic related, going "uh can I have a gas pedal? and maybe turn signals?", and hearing back "no the patent jews are stopping us by giving Tesla a monopoly on their Autopilot".

>>61391322
Maya and Nuke run natively on Linux. If your focus is 3D modeling/rendering for visualization, Linux is actually pretty great. Blender is irrelevant.

>>61393658
Photoshop doesn't actually fully support EXRs either; it opens them but doesn't save them properly without a plugin.

>>61393575
>you don't pay for both, you just pay for both
it sounds to me like you want codeslave tendies. you should attach to a project that hasn't had two features i literally cannot work without - adjustment layers and CMYK support - roadmapped for "sometime after the next major version" and "as of 2009, we consider this a low priority compared to our primary goal of adding adjustment layers".

>primary goal
>in 2009
>still a major version plus away
>completely blocking, on a "we won't even look at what architectural changes we need to make until it's done" the other "this software is literally useless for professional work" bug
this behavior does not earn you any good pajeet points

>>61393803
That's cool, never completely understood how patents work today. Good food for thought, thanks.

>>61393575
just to illustrate
there is already a bounty for CMYK support at https://freedomsponsors.org/issue/182/cmyk-support . it has been open for over four years. it is now over $300.

this is a feature that i literally can't work without, without it gimp is like a php template generator for a c coder. for the amount of money on offer, i could buy almost a year and a half of just cloud photoshop, or half a year of adobe's entire suite. how much more needs to be put up? and why should i do that, when there are several other more complex issues that need fixed before it's fit for purpose at all?

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I've never seen a /g/ thread with the average post having so much text in it

>>61387966
Fireworks was fantastic and a much better application than PS back in the day, then Adobe bought Macromedia and fucked everything up.

>>61394994
Did you just arrive last week?

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>>61392429
>Everything is kinda usable but kinda sucks. How can we change this?

Literally every great free program was done 80% by one huge autismo who invested all his autism, sweat, blood and hopes and dreams into it and then (IF it was or became open source) the "community" getting the rest done or improving it.

So far every open source that doesn't get pulled through by one strong leading programmer either fizzles out or goes nowhere even after years of development.

>>61395010
Same with Flash, was even Macromedia AGAIN.

There are still tons of animators who use the decade old Macromedia Flash because they say there's nothing better than this.

>>61391301
>Who knows what else it does
Its fucking job, as opposed to Gimp

>>61393628

>tfw corporations die but keep the patents office alive just for the heck of it

>>61387966
Sketch is actually pretty decent and has a pretty large group of designers using it now. Unfortunately, it's macOS only and is only a real alternative for Illustrator. There's really nothing that comes close to Photoshop and the cost is basically nothing for most professionals.