"Breaking Moore's law is what we did with Infinity

>>61378975
there's literally no limit to "moar cores", so yes

>>61378975
Moores law is just a meme now. it died years ago.

Transistor density can only take you so far.

>>61378975
Moore's Law is a meme now, but AMD casually putting ~780mm^2 of silicon in one package for cheap is a disaster for Intel.
EPYC 7601 competes with 8176 for half the price.
And i'm not even talking about memory or I/O. Or AMD's 1S solutions.

>>61379054
DELET

>>61379076
I wish i could. Truth hurts.
I wish Intel was smart enough to stay fucking silent instead of spreading LITERAL FUCKING FUD about EPYC.
They spent more time shittalking EPYC than leveraging strenghs of SKL-SP.

>>61379112
The entire presentation is a good listen. Lots of info, no shittalking. Ok, very little shittalking.

>>61378975
>"Breaking intel anus is what we did with Infinity Fabric."

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>>61380298

>>61380355
Well played. But RISC-V isn't ready for primetime just yet. It will be the IoT future though.

>>61380355
what is this

>>61381497
the future of memes

>>61378975
Infinity Fabric, which is really just a unified host of multiple different buses built upon a new Hypertransport, is the interconnect IP that will facilitate AMD's ventures into die stacking.

Multi die chips with individual components fabbed separately. Tiny dies each ran on a process with metrics specifically tailored to the part. It starts with simple MCMs, and it will evolve into breaking up unified dies into modular components. The era of fabbing monolithic large dies is coming to an end, at least in the short term.
It fundamentally is breaking Moore's Law since the number of transistors you can put on one chip economically is not totally irrelevant.

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>>61382056
AMD started talking about this back in 2011/2012. They had a couple presentations in 2013 and 2014 where they went into more detail.
This has been a long time coming.

>>61382056
So this is why Intel is so afraid, because their bingbus can't into 3d

Moore's Law is long since dead.
Stitching CPU cores together and calling it a day isn't under Moore's Law.

Its true. Intel held back moore's law because no no competition. Now AMD competes and destroys intel's artificial "moore's law is dead" nonsense garbage.

Expect Zen2 to escalate things even more.

>>61382143
AMD's Ryzen architecture doesn't suddenly allow for Moore's Law to continue. In fact, it's an admission that it can't go on.

>>61382137
>>61382178
Sure, it admitting mores law is dead and then not caring and making faster Cpus anyways. Kinda breaking it.

>>61382372
>Kinda breaking it.
If the law is dead, then the "transistor per square inch doubling" isn't going to happen, it may increase, but it can't keep complying to the law, so its not really breaking it.

>>61378975
They didn't break moore's law, they circumvented it.

And it's one hell of a quote.

>>61382056
modular DIY CPUs when?

>glued together

is here to stay apparently even AMD said it
Intel probably not even aware of b the beast they unleashed

>>61382086
This
Everyone forgets amds plan for HSA because of the joke that apus are now, but infinity fabric is the next step. Combining something like a 1700 and a cut down Vega die inside the space of an epyc cpu with 8gb of shared hbm is somewhat feasible, and the performance would be nuts

There's nothing stopping them from using 300mm^2 dies on 7nm next time.
Absolutely nothing.

>>61383372
Holy shit. AMD is going to disrupt CPU manufacturing and make the world a better place.

>>61384477
>meanwhile Intel has trouble bringing out mobile dual cores on 10nm

It'll be a bloodbath

Not really, Intel has been prepared for a long time, in a year or two they'll release what they've been holding back from their R&D billions into CPUs and there won't be a AMD to speak of anymore

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>>61382878
>m-muh glued t-together dies, goyim
>glues IHS to CPU themselves

>>61384817
>just w-wait Intel will unleash THEIR SECRET WEAPON

>>61384817
>Source: My uncle works at Nintendo

>>61384817
new arch only in 2021, intel said this themselves, so fuck off

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>>61384817
Oh wow, this is just sad.

>>61385116
Dude Intel didn't have any competition in the CPU market for like 8 years.

>>61378975
>b-but muh non-NUMA optimized workloads ..

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>>61385581
>y-you should activate NUMA on our scalable xeon processors for maximum performance though

>>61378975
he's right.
now they can just glue the die together and get the same performance for fraction the price of a huge die.

>>61385644
I'm watching some retard on another site right now dance around claiming NUMA on Threadripper is the same as a dual socket system, and that you can fix Skylake-X's shitty memory latency by overclocking the mesh.

>>61385817
so AMD basically managed to make their processors scale at 98% on "8 socket" systems?

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>yfw eventually your entire PC case will consist of glued together processors.

>>61385836
Aside from memory latency sensitive workloads I can't think of much that would suffer under NUMA, and Intel is in the same boat now with their mesh shit anyway.

>>61380501
>It will be the IoT future though.
If it succeeds in IoT, it's almost inevitable it will end up in mobile devices, set-top boxes, Chromebooks, etc.

>>61385817
>watching some retard on another site right now dance around claiming NUMA on Threadripper is the same as a dual socket system,

lolfail9001?

>>61385973
Yeah fantastic name.

>>61385988

So thats either Reddit, Hardocp or possibly OCN (I forget if he has an account there). If its Hardocp he is part of a clique of posters that relentlessly aim to purge anything AMD related from the user forums.

>>61385988
gib thread link

>>61386006
He's on anandtech and reddit.

>>61382086
You know what this whole thing is telling me? There has never been a better a time to be a distributed systems programmer. Soon, your cheap ass commodity server will look more and more like one, with, e.g., groups of cores. Remember the switch to multicore? It will be like that times ten. You will have to understand not only concurrency and threading, but the difference in latency between different groups of cores and how to efficiently connect them together. If you don't know Erlang, get studying.

>>61382768
After modular DIY smartphones.

>>61386041
Nobody has time to waste on learning AMD's super special snowflake non-standard CPU architecture, most will settle for the tried and tested and easier to work with Intel architecture

>>61386057

>Microsoft
>Baidu

>nobody

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>>61386057

>>61378975
You can't break Moore's Law, it's not a kind of "law" that you can break.

>>61386057
>chinks
>Microshits
>Amazon
Who?

>>61386057
I think you didn't understand. I was saying that all CPUs will end up like that, just like all of them ended up 64-bit and multicore.

>>61386057
Stop sniffing glue.

>>61386057
please be b8

>>61386087
Yes, you can circumvent it.
>>61386103
This and Tigerlake-SP will use EMIB anyway.
Intel themselves said that.

Oh boy it's a nice race.
Even nVidia joined it.

>>61386137
They have a whitepaper. AMD already has a GPU with Infinity Fabric connected HBM dies. Granted, it's more of a stepping stone, but they're getting there. I think AMD will have the first MCM GPU.

>>61386186
>I think AMD will have the first MCM GPU.
Just like ATi was the first to unified shaders with Xenos.
nVidia is (almost) always late.
To everything, especially new and shiny memory tech.

>>61378975
Why does it even matter? Now they(CPU manufacturers in general) are spending those transistors on more cores, but what were they spent on before? 2-4 cores were the standard for a fucking decade.

>>61386200
>but what were they spent on before?
For Intel? A shitty GPU

>>61386207
Intel beats AMD at their own game, makes better CPUs and better GPUs

How can this company even function?

>>61386227
t. Brian JUSTnich

>>61386200
>2-4 cores were the standard for a fucking decade.
That has more to do with Intel holding the entire market back to line their own pockets than anything else.

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>>61386227
>better CPUs
Gotta hand it to them, they still got those high clockspeed quad cores.
>better GPUs
Absolutely retarded.

>>61386259
Your tears are delicious weebshit

>>61386259
when will intel go full retard and release a quad core with 200W tdp?

>>61386341
Maybe on their shitty 10nm node.

>>61386354
but will they be able to fix their 1.7% yields enough for something like that?

>>61386374
Icelake is what, 2019?
It won't matter since Zen2 on 7nm LP will clock higher.
And Zen on 7nm LP+ (the EUV one) will shit on Intel's grave.
Long live Nazi science.

>>61386057
B A T T L E T E S T E D

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>>61386057
lmao
>>61385644

>>61386383
b-but muh 300cb single threaded score

>>61378975
>128 PCIe lanes in a single epyc
There goes the crypto coin market

>>61386401
motherboards with 120 pci-e slots when?

>>61386341
They hace to release it before zen 7nm comes.

>>61386410
>even the lowest end epyc has 128 lanes of going fast
this will change things lmao

>>61386057
Actually, it's quite the opposite here literally.
Ryzen uses a trained neural network to perform it's branch prediction, and while it is "set in stone" on the Ryzen CPUs, AMD can improve it by just running more and more softwares on the simulation, making the neural net learn and improve.
The next iteration of the Ryzen will be faster without any sort of engineering effort, just a guy training the brain.
Of course, would be nice if they actually did some engineering effort and didn't just relied on the spongy branchy thing because that's just lazy.

>>61386665
>implying zen2 is only getting branch prediction improvements

>>61386696
Obviously.
But if they were lazy, they could just sit and let the brain churn.

>>61386665
Let me remind you that each Bulldozer revision was a huge improvement, and it was obvious AMD let 3 people just improve it while their engineers did more important things.
I mean just look at steamroller, internally it had more changes than Sandrybridge up to Kabylake, too bad the arch itself was shitty but it had a lot of changes done to it over the years with basically little effort from AMD.

You don't think they'll double down until Zen3 and make this thing in a fucking beast? Zen>Zen3 hitting over 20% more IPC at far higher clocks doesn't sound too insane at all, the arch is fresh as a virgin.

>>61386717
As intel said, Ryzen is not "battle tested".
Which kinda only spell bad news for intel, as the "green" Ryzen is already blaring all the red alert alarms at their HQ.

>>61386744
>Intel spends like 10 slides shitting on EPYC
Kikes are LITERALLY on suicide watch.

>>61386744
They already struck a deal with Amazon and Microsoft so...

>>61386770
You forgot Baidu.

>>61386770
Yep, but i imagine Amazon and microsoft will use the threat of Ryzen to get quite a few extra favors out of intel, and maybe a quite nice discount.

>>61386792
Amazon? Maybe.
Definetly not micrococks.
You don't fuck someone over Early Purley and expect obidience thereafter.

>>61386770
There's a bunch more than those, and that's launch day.

Others won't be switching yet obviously because the arch is so new, give it a year.

>>61386810
Actually i think i brainfarted here.
Those companies listed actually jumped over to AMD side, cold blooded like that, right?

>>61386832
Is there really "sides" in business?

>>61386832
Yes.
Why the fuck do you think Intel devotes like 10 slides to LITERALLY shit on EPYC in some way or another?
They are panicking.

>>61386832
They are cheaper and do more,you can bet your ass they will "switch sides" like that.

>>61386842
when there is only two x86 companies, yes there are two sides
if market was more varied there won't be sides and actual competition would prevail
CPU tech, except for specific IPs like IF or intel hypoerthreading variant, must be made open source for humanity sake

>>61386842
Not fixed ones no, but you always can use the threat to squeeze more out of your current partner.
Or go coldblooded murder like those did.

>>61386869
You can license SMT from IBM and IF is AMD's secret sauce they will never disclose.
It's too good.

>>61386845
>>61386867
Ouch.

>>61386888
AMD gave the market what it wants.
EPYC does more for less, with lower TCO.
Let's not speak of AMD's 1S solutions.
And AMD can sell you fuckton of these, since yields are not a problem.
And margins on EPYC are going to be so stellar.

>>61386927
Yes, this i know, but i was expecting intel to pull their usual dirty tricks to keep the clients as they usually do, or those companies tiptoeing to AMD side, not this total absolute annihilation.

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>>61386665
Can they update it with agesas and microcodes?

>>61379054
How is it a disaster?
AMD can put all that shit together for cheap because they don't care about quality

>>61386962
>Yes, this i know, but i was expecting intel to pull their usual dirty tricks to keep the clients as they usually do
THEY FUCKED OVER MICROSHITS
FUCKING MICROSHITS
OVER EARLY PURLEY
AND YOU EXPECT OBIDIENCE?
This is not going to happen, pal.

>>61378975
Well Moore's Law isn't a real law so technically it's all irrelevant

Well-built RR-based laptops, something like XPS13/15 with RR will be the final nail in Intel's coffin.

>>61386978
No clue.
But it would be interesting if the NN thing was update-able.
Every update, a speed boost on everything, specially new software.

>>61386962
>expecting intel to pull their usual dirty tricks to keep the clients
world changed in 15 years, datacenter is real business now with billions circulating not to mention the first that gets behind loses and can pretty much close it's doors
market is that fast
no sane company will go for inferior product in such market

what intel pulled with OEMs back then is child's toys, server is real money now

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Why is nobody talking bout this?

>>61387048
Because PSP is not yet compromised?
And it works very different to IME?

>>61387048
everyone was jawdropping first time this came into the light

>>61387048
Because large customers actually pay for this.
Gladly and willingly.

I wonder how many cloud providers will adopt EPYC.
SME/SEV are killer features.

>>61387048
Is this the botnet I keep hearing about

>>61387103
baidu, MS and amazon not enough? it's what 65% of the market?

>>61387112
Yes, though this one is not yet compromised.
>>61387117
That leaves Google?

>>61387103
dropbox tested epyc already. they are in.

>>61387125
Google is NSA so ofc they will work with intel

very few people seem to understand what Moore's law actually is

>>61387140
Something something doubling the transistor density every n years.

>>61387140
doesn't matter? Moore himself said it's something he thought up on friday for a magazine article for PR

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>>61386982
>AMD can put all that shit together for cheap because they don't care about quality
Delicious FUDge sundae there, Brian.

Intel can't afford to lose even 10% of the server share, they are too big, heads will surely roll in coming months.
Imagine if AMD was losing money x5 faster back then? that's what will happen to intel if they are going to lose ~50%

>>61387186
It's not only servers.
AMD's assault on Intel's mobile market is yet to launch.

Boy who the fuck thought this year will look so grim for Intel.

>>61387199
honestly I don't have much hope for that
for niche underclocked work laptops maybe

>>61387230
>honestly I don't have much hope for that
Why? Zen is insanely good at lower clocks.

>>61387225
q4 financial will tell

>>61387230
I would actually gladly trade my Intel ULV 2 core shitbox for something with 4 cores and a good APU.

>>61387199
That is the finale to the Core architecture I want to see. Just AMD snapping Intel in half over it's knee as mobile APU's crush anything Intel could ever offer, across the entire lineup.

That was the start of Intel bribing. AMD just had a flat out better mobile chip, and Intel couldn't compete. At all.

>>61387246
too soon they still have contracts to fill,probably no big impact.
Next year will be the do or die for intel

>>61387253
>That was the start of Intel bribing. AMD just had a flat out better mobile chip, and Intel couldn't compete. At all.
What? No. Pentium M was great. Actually it was the only good thing Intel produced during shitburst era since Pentium M was based on P6.

Daily reminder that intel is done
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQduFp_syaU

>>61387325
10/10 marketing right there.

>>61387325
not enough neon to be a effective ad

>>61378975
Will they go to jail though?

>>61387325
I'm not sure what's better, the S5 state, or the surpryzen.

>>61387289
>From a performance perspective, it's clear that the Turion 64 is the winner. By my count, the Pentium M was faster in only five of the tests, and one of those (the hardware OpenGL test in Cinebench) was probably due to graphics drivers. The rest were either a toss-up or a win for the Turion 64. The other thing that struck me about the results was that even in the tests the Pentium M did win, its margin of victory was fairly small. A number of the Turion 64 wins, however, were by an impressively large margin.

Sound familiar?

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>>61384817
>JUST WAIT(TM)
L M A O
M
A
O

>>61387025
I fucking hope so. AMD needs presence in high profile laptops. Its a huge disadvantage for them considering intel created the whole "Ultrabook" concept themselves.

>>61386057
install cloveros

>>61387153
It was an observation based on pacing of silicon manufacturing. Since we are approaching node limits and ipc increase is almost no existant on Intel then it's basically moot.
Increasing cores doesn't rough translate in more performance when most loads are still single threaded.

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>>61378975
No, they beat Moore's law with "glue" and solder.

>>61389408
They circumvented it.

>>61389427
There's nothing being circumvented. Moore's Law never said that doubling transistor density was the only way to increase CPU performance.