Core Question at the Heart of Net Neutrality..

>>61341587
You're missing the whole point. If net neutrality were to go away, it would become like TV, where you have to subscribe to packages and get a limited amount of channels.

>>61341705
I'm not sure what I'm not getting.

At any rate, don't we already pay for internet packages in a sense, choosing the types of speed that we want, etc?

>>61341587
>How can this be explained?
To quote Cave Johnson;

"Right. Now, you might be asking yourself, 'Cave, just how difficult are these tests? What was in that phone book of a contract I signed?

What was in that contract?

Well that contract will include a clause that says they don't have to do anything and fuck you. You buy a service up to a set speed. They will try to connect you. Will try to deliver you data but in the end they have no obligation to do anything.

When they start shaping your network traffic that's legal. Right until ISP got reclassified as utilities then the government can regulation them for aspect like how they treat traffic and just what level of service they can claim to sell vs what they actually deliver.

>>61342066
Yes, but we have the freedom to go wherever we want on the Internet. This current bill restricts exactly that...It's like me buying a car according to my financial situation but having the freedom to go wherever I want with that car.

>>61341587
FFFFUUUUUUUUUUCCCCCCCCCCCKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK

>>61342135
Ok, so I can envision that very easily, thanks for the explanation, companies do indeed pull that stuff quite often.
However, if we are going to claim the the devil lies in the details, then I would like to read some analysis or some reputable source that claims this as well merely for the purposes of being able to use this in a conversation. I want to believe this, but do you know anyplace else that does?

>>61341705
>If net neutrality were to go away, it would become like TV, where you have to subscribe to packages and get a limited amount of channels.
This sounds like bullshit. Can you elaborate?

>>61342135
>Le cake is lie Xd

Fuck off plebbit

>>61342404
Go to the link below, it will explain it better than me
Link: https://irlpodcast.org/?utm_source=internetcitizen&utm_medium=blog&utm_campaign=irl&utm_content=trailercompanion

>>61341587
>Inb4 inevitable shitpost by /Pol that claims Liberals and government is at fault and only corporations can save us.

>>61341705
not true, it isn't quite like that
the way net neutrality willl occur if it fails isn't that they'll be charging YOU more money for services but they'll be charging services more money to get to you. Basically they can set the speeds of services, it doesn't completely limit shit but what's the point of streaming for example if they slow you to dial up tier speeds.

Basically they get to chose who thrives and with their customers. Expect most media to be slowed down to promote the cable company's own shitty services instead of actually making their services competitive.

>>61342404
Not quite how he put it, but close. It's traffic prioritization, and it happened all the time behind the sheets before February 26th, 2015 when net neutrality came into place. Every ISP was slowing down consumer's traffic when they tried to use Netflix to promote their own video streaming services.

>>61342468

/pol/ and the Russian state actors already have a couple threads up on /g/ already.

>>61342483
How can this at all be legal under a contract where users agree to pay a certain amount for a specific certain speed?

net neutrality was never enforced anyway

>>61344198
The terms of the contract are so that it is legal, you should try reading one of them some time

>>61342418
Wrong game

>>61344421
I wonder if any of us really know what those contracts are specifically made of.

>Wow guys, we have a problem. Those government granted monopolies caused a huge mess
>Well how do you suggest we solve it?
>MORE GOVERNMENT!

>>61341705
No, stop spreading this bullshit.

ISPs are already over that idea. Simple throttling is a billion times more profitable to them than outright blocking websites, and they know it.

The "pay for websites like tv channels" concept is a strawman, and ISPs love it when that misinformation continues to spread.

Because if people protest it loudly enough that lawmakers take action, they're only going to ban that particular concept, and explicitly not ban anything else. Net neutrality will seem "saved" on paper, but for the ISPs it'll stay business like usual.

>>61341705
>If net neutrality were to go away, it would become like TV, where you have to subscribe to packages and get a limited amount of channels.
So why didn't that happen at any point over the last 30 years? Network neutrality may have been the standard all that time, but it was never enforced by federal regulation until now.

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>>61341587
http://www.strawpoll.me/13420739

>>61345474
Because telecommunication infrastructure wasn't completely fucked and monopolized before Bush and King Nigger came around

>>61345014
Most of those contacts have a clause stating that it can change without you consent and acknowledgement

>>61345496
the real answer is "i don't know" unless everyone on /g/ happens to be a lawyer that fully understands and has read in depth about net neutrality.

>>61345736
this guy gets it

>>61345496
>in a free market
Franchising is a thing, also the infrastructure sitting on Utility poles and not being a utility is kinda weird.

>>61345664

Wrong.

>>61345736
Well, this kind of answer seems to suggest every nigger should know literally everything about every legal issue to hold a valid opinion, which is ludicrous. If it seems bad, after having done your best research, then stick to that opinion.

>>61346091
Right

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>>61345496
>by granting a federal regulatory agency more authority
Wow, slanted much? While this is technically true, it would more accurately be characterized as "by stripping the ISP of its permission to commit foulplay or abuse of a widley monopolized system"

>>61345496
Yes.
"Free" market, goy

>>61345496
Better option would be to disable blocking / throttling of sites but allow ISPs to do what they want.

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>google supports net neutrality
Gee I wonder why these blatant fucking /pol/ threads aren't being deleted.

>NN the great deception
this is why even comcast is pushing NN

http://irabrodsky.com/index.php?/archives/84-The-Great-Net-Neutrality-Deception.html

>>61341587
>A customer paid for a certain service, how can the service provider not fulfill its end of the agreement?
ToS changed, bitch, and it's on you to pay attention. You'd no longer pay for XX kB/s, you'd pay for XX kB/s when connecting to partnered content providers. Nonpartnered content providers (companies who don't want to give your local ISP $$$$) have a maximum speed of Y kB/s, regardless of your internet package.

>>61345496
>free market
do /pol/ faggots really believe america has a free market? that's honestly funnier than half the shit in YLYL threads

>>61341587
The problem is that the ISPs right the contract in such a way to fuck you over. Unlike with USPS you pay your ISP for up to a certain speed (usually) so they can deliver at whatever speed the feel like for any site. Net neutrality adds regulation to prevent this.

>>61345069
>Wow guys, we have a problem. Those monopolies that promised to fairly use tax funds to build infrastructure for everyone to use decided to force competition off the lines.
>Well how do you suggest we solve it?
>LET THE COMPANIES DO WHAT THEY WANT!

>>61345496
Nice leading question and answers /pol/tard.

>>61346274
>google supports something therefore it's bad
Look we all know google is pretty evil alot of the time but that doesn't mean everything they support is evil. Ever heard of project zero or summer of code?

You know, I wouldn't actually mind if they'd pass a stupid bill like making websites responsible for their users content.

It would kill 4chan, sure, but it would also kill facebook and all other social media sites pretty damn quick. The internet would fall back into the state it was in the late 90s / early 00s, when someone being present on the Internet meant that they had a website they coded themselves. Sure, it had a lot of ezboard-tier crap, but there were also so many personal sites oozing with creativity.

I remember following a guy who changed the design on his site every few months or so, it always looked so great - and today? he shot down the domain because there's no point paying for something he can get for free; he uses a tumblr blog instead.

Also, being a web dev would finally mean something more than writing wordpress.org templates.

>>61346727
Google supported Obama and his tyrannical reign. Google needs to be shut down, NOW. Supporting google is supporting socialism.

>>61346537
This person doesn't know what they are talking about. There have been instances of throttling, like when comcast throttled netflix and torrents.

>>61346599
It is pretty funny. You can tell they 15yo lolbertarians who have no actual knowledge of economics and just regurgitate the shit /pol/ tells them.

I don't know why it's even a debate. Net Neutrality SUCKS ASS. It's government control of the internet...and you know what the government will do? censor censor censor and throtle you down to a very slow speed, everyone will have that same speed, thus a neutral internet.

Remember when we handed the government our health care system with Obamacare? Didn't work out, did it? We used to have the best in the world, people from other countries would come here for the care they could not get at home, now it's growing worse by the day.

The net neutrality legislation exists because municipal monopolies can't be broken up. Net neutrality is literally a fight against the corruption behind municipal monopolies.

>>61346750
I would hardly call Obama tyrannical. He only managed to pass one significant bill, obamacare and that didn't really change much and certainly didn't help our absimal healthcare system. Also how the fuck is supporting a multinational corporation socialism? Google is practically the definition of capitalism.

>>61346808
Abysmal? We had the best in the world. Obama and the socialists ruined it.

>>61346795
>>61346808
Obamacare is a success. Millions of people gained coverage.
Inb4 muh premiums
If you are truly too poor for to afford higher premiums, then you should switch to Obamacare.

>>61346795
Government intervention is needed where the free market is truncated, i.e. ISP geo monopolization. Of course this net neutrality legislation wouldn't be neessary if consumer protection agencies did their job in the first place and broke up these monopolies.

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>>61346826
Regarding the American health care system (before Obama)
>Abismal? we had the best in the world

@61346795
is this bait?

>>61346795
>>61346826
You must be delusional if you actually think we had good health insurance before obamacare (not to say we have good insurance now). We have an insane amount of people who are uninsured (around 13% of the population before obamacare around 9% after) and many insured people are underinsured (as in their insurance doesn't actually cover the care they need or their copays are ridiculously high). Health care is obscenely expensive and it prevents small businesses from hiring enough workers because they have to pay out the ass for insurance. Access to medical care is a human right (seeing as life is one of the central rights recognized by the declaration of independence) and everyone should be fully covered.

>>61346875
Coverage means nothing when that's all you pay for. I make a decent living, but because of Obamacare, I pay $400 a month for coverage and I have to pay for shit I don't need such as women's health shit.

It was perfect before...all you had to do was work and you could afford insurance and be able to see a doctor and the doctors gave a damn. But with the individual mandate driving prices up, I can't wait for Obamacare to be repealed in full.

>>61346795
I don't think you understand what net neutrality does. It gives the FCC the legal framework to punish ISPs for throttling some sites over others. It doesn't magically let the government censor sites they want to, especially since the first amendment still applies.

>>61346951
Tell me where in the declaration it says that the government needs to be involved in healthcare?

Oh it dropped the uninsured rate...good because Obama the Tyrant made it illegal to not have insurance so big surprise.

Seriously, before the only people who could not get insurance were those who refused to work. Now even the middle class can't afford insurance but the lazy can on the government dime.

>>61346982
Why shouldn't they throttle traffic in favor of others? Not all data should be considered equal. Some people use the internet for important things you know, rather than looking at anime traps.

>>61345496
the main problem here is local monopolies which are created by GOVERNMENT in the first place

leftists are fucking retarded

what will destroy these corrupt isps IS a free market

>>61346875
Millions of working people paid their penalties for not being able to afford insurance. Obamacare was a fucking disaster.

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>>61346826
>Abysmal? We had the best in the world

Haha, sure you do.

>>61346750
>Supporting google is supporting socialism.
fucking THIS

FUCK JEWGLE

>>61346919
>Regarding the American health care system
before the government took over the healthcare market in the 70s it was the CHEAPEST IN THE FUCKING WORLD\

Anti free market retards dont understand this

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Oh boy, ancap shills get tired of trolling /pol/ and decide to come here instead.

>>61347029
Oh no, someone used a service but couldn't afford it. Shouldn't have used it.

>>61347029
High medical prices

you can thank government for that

healthcare was cheaper when it was mostly free market in the 50s and 60s

Why people are bitching about Net Neutrality and glorifying corporations ""protecting"" it while same companies enforcing web drm? How does that work for muh freedum fighters?

>>61347059
Sadly Regan did make it so hospitals accepting medicare had to take any patient regardless of their ability to pay. Before then, you could be turned away. This started things off. Then Clintoncare, then Obamacare.

>>61347061
>Oh boy, ancap shills get tired of trolling /pol/ and decide to come here instead.
why are you angry at facts?

I'm not an ancap but I strongly support the free market.

Explain how we're wrong.
Why do you want to be poor and enslaved?
I bet you support central banks.

>>61347090
nah it actually started earlier than that

http://www.freenation.org/a/f12l3.html

>>61347067
>People shouldn't get to live if they can't afford what I can.
>But abortion should be illegal because that ends a life.
Some great Republican logic you got there /pol/. Next you're going to call me a communist and imply that I'm a cuckold right?

>>61347119
dude like 90% of /pol/ supports abortion

how retarded are you?

>>61347078
Everything was cheaper in the 50s and 60s because this thing called inflation happened. Also people could afford things then because we were in the middle of an economic boom.

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>>61347093
You are ancap, and a delusional faggot.

You got tired of shaking hands with conservatives and republicans, so you decided to just bypass the state and shake hands with the devil himself. You want to turn a blind eye to centuries of globalism destroying the planet and let these greedy fucking jews run the whole damn operation.

>>61347028
There are two types of people who don't get health insurance: Poor people and rich people. It's cheaper to get Obamacare than to pay the tax if you're poor. If you're rich, you can't get Obamacare but at least you're still rich.

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Do you support Net Neutrality /g/?

>>61347119
Nobody said that, dumbass. Libtards putting words in people's mouths again.

>>61347164
Yes.

>>61347020
Doesn't work as well as you think. Letting 10 companies each run their own cables to every street in the city results in a lot of redundant infrastructure investments and ugly cables everywhere. If each company is only getting 1/10 of the customers it would have got if it were a monopoly, the companies have to raise the prices or go out of business. Likely what will happen is that less competitive companies drop out one by one and we are back to only 2 ISPs.

>>61347067
>Oh no, someone used a service but couldn't afford it. Shouldn't have used it.

Nobody told him the price, they took him in care, then the bill came out later.

>>61347164
Of course.

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Net neutrality violates the freedom of speech; specifically the freedom of ISPs to control speech on their own property. Before the election the ISPs were preparing lawsuits that would have removed the regulations anyways. Trump is just saving the government a costly court fight.

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>>61347164
Who is this '4chan'

>>61347067
Don't you think it's just disgusting that we allow people to die or go into poverty because they don't have enough pieces of paper that society says are worth something.
>>61347088
They have been brainwashed by /pol/. Also a lot of the people who are against DRM aren't the same as the ones against nn. DRM is too complicated for /pol/ to understand.
>>61347093
We don't have a free market in the US we have a handful of megacorps who have bribed local governments into making themselves the only ISPs.
>>61347185
Maybe we could allow multiple companies to use the same wiring seeing as those wires were built with public funds.

>>61347016
>Why shouldn't they throttle traffic in favor of others?

Because you pay for a set bandwidth, not the data.

>>61347138
>Everything was cheaper in the 50s and 60s because this thing called inflation happened.
BULL FUCKING SHIT
Healthcare is the one thing that FAR FAR outpacing inflation.
All thanks to government regulations giving special powers to health insurance and drug companies.

We need a free market to dramatically lower prices and increase quality.

>>61347150
>You are ancap, and a delusional faggot.
wrong lol
I just support limited government and a mostly free market.

>You want to turn a blind eye to centuries of globalism destroying the planet and let these greedy fucking jews run the whole damn operation.

lol okay there moche
it's not like jews have been fighting the free market for fucking centuries
it's not like jews control and support central banks or anything lol

brainwashed anti-free market morons

>>61341705
How could they possible organize the billions of websites into packages?

>>61347244
>Maybe we could allow multiple companies to use the same wiring seeing as those wires were built with public funds.
THIS

Holy shit the solution is so simple.

ALSO the government needs to stop supporting local monopolies.
https://www.wired.com/2013/07/we-need-to-stop-focusing-on-just-cable-companies-and-blame-local-government-for-dismal-broadband-competition/

>>61347268
>We need a free market to dramatically lower prices and increase quality.
Then bring back the free market where DSL providers could collocate equipment at the telco exchanges and use the pairs that were publicly subsidized to deliver data to their customers.

>>61347244
And here we go with the attempt to appeal to emotion. Won't work kid. I am like a Vulcan, I've shut off my emotions.

Doctors have to be paid. Medical care requires resources which requires money. Something bern-outs fail to grasp. That money had to come from somewhere. Either you pay out of pocket or the government pays.

Seriously, if you are worried about going into poverty paying medical bills, get a better job. Find a way to make more money and open up a savings account that is there for emergencies. Training hamsters for the olympic games isn't panning out obviously.

>>61342523
>being this retarded

>>61347303
>Doctors have to be paid
They don't have to be paid on a fee-for-service model.
>Medical care requires resources which requires money
Not true. It merely requires manufacturing capacity, which can be built under direction of workers who are getting "paid" in room and board.
Even if true, nowhere near as much as is being paid solely for the purpose of giving Wall Street their entitled 3% growth.
>Something bern-outs fail to grasp
All partisans are terrorists.
>That money had to come from somewhere
Would you rather have (((banks))) generating money without bound, or would you rather have a government with a constitutional right to regulate the value of moeny through spending it into existence and taxing it out of existence?
>Seriously, if you are worried about going into poverty paying medical bills, get a better job
Yet, other countries don't have this problem. Why are you a psychopath and why shouldn't you be killed?

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>>61347268
A free-market doesn't mean lower prices or more competition. Study a little economics 101. Free-market means monopoly, which shuts down markets and prevents entry by creating artificial barriers.

And Jewish families absolutely want a free-market because it gives them complete control over it. You need to get the fuck off this fantasy you have where the poor and middle classes have enough capital to change anything. There's no freedom for them you stupid fuck. Freedom in ancapistan only exists for the elite old money shareholders who sit at the top of the food chain and write all the policies.

Keep shilling you delusional ancap ayn randian piece of shit.

>>61342523
All partisans are terrorists. Why shouldn't you be in Gitmo right now?

>>61342468
>NN canned and 4chan gets shutdown
>/pol/ will blame the joos for destroying NN and will act like they always supported it

>>61347387
/pol/ is retarded, this is known

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>>61347303
free market fag here

you need to focus on the fact that the government is SOLELY responsible for skyrocketing medical prices and that medical care would be far cheaper in a free market

>>61347356
pic related

>>61347410
yeah no. did you forget every other more socialist, government controlled healthcare country has better and "cheaper" healthcare than us?

>>61344198
The point is, it wasn't legal and it was stopped before the net neutrality garbage laws. The tiered shit was tried and stopped; in fact, the 1st amendment was used to argue against it. In fucking FACT, Verizon vs FCC in 2010. Go look it up. That case is to prevent internet providers from pulling this bullshit.

People forget there are laws that prevent this shit, net neutrality or not. We were all perfectly fucking fine prior to net neutrality. Now the top telecomm companies can do as they please - same with social media sites with blocking people from being seen by others, banning accounts, etc. Net neutrality is nice on paper, but its being abused right now.

tl;dr - shit was fine prior to net neutrality, it will be fine once it is repealed.

>>61346795
It doesn't give the government control of the internet. It takes control away from ISPs

>>61347410
shoo jew, back to >>>/pol/ with you

>>61347303
We can pay then via a single payer system. The doctors will still make the same amount but it will be cheaper because all the execs and other vultures at the insurance companies will be gone.

>>61347356
>Do you really think doctors are paid per patient? They are paid a salary. The money you pay pays the wages of doctors, nurses and other staff...as well as buys material. Same as if you bought another product.

>Pay people in room and board and see how far that gets you

>Why aren't you on the most wanted list yet?

>Banks don't create money, the fed prints it endlessly to give to welfare recipients which raises inflation.

>Other countries don't have our population size, needs, and other variables. It's simple logic to say "I make barely enough to support myself and if something happens to me, I'm fucked so I should look for another job"

>>61347358
>A free-market doesn't mean lower prices or more competition. Study a little economics 101. Free-market means monopoly, which shuts down markets and prevents entry by creating artificial barriers.
AHHAHAHHAHHAHHAHAHAHA

Holy fucking shit you are one brainwashed motherfucker.

>Study a little economics 101.
People that are against the free market are the ones that don't understand economics

>Free-market means monopoly
The free market DESTROYS monopolies.
Monopolies are created by government you delusional idiot.

>creating artificial barriers.
The ONLY artificial barriers are the ones created by the state.
IT's government that creates monopolies.

>And Jewish families absolutely want a free-market
Bull fucking shit, they do everything in their power to fight against their precious central bank and banking "regulations" which only serve the jew

>You need to get the fuck off this fantasy you have where the poor and middle classes have enough capital to change anything.
They would if we had a free market with deflation and high savings rates.

>Freedom in ancapistan only exists for the elite old money shareholders who sit at the top of the food chain and write all the policies.
If that happened, it's not a free market by DEFINITION is it?
Why are you people so fucking stupid.
I'm not even an ancap.

>Keep shilling you delusional ancap ayn randian piece of shit.
I hope you fascists get boiled alive in acid.

>>61347016
Prioritizing some speech over other speech spits in the face of the idea of a free society.

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>>61347303
>Won't work kid. I am like a Vulcan, I've shut off my emotions.

>>61347155
This is what they telling you on Slate and Huffpost.
If you're middle class rent-paying self-employed, or working for <10 person business, you get robbed.
I haven't seen my tax return since obongo introduced this retarded policy, so fuck you.

>>61347422
They also have longer wait times unless the patient is critical. The quality is lower, taxes are higher and Europe is experiencing a wealth exodus because they are tired of having money stolen from them by the government.

>>61347358
This. Free market led to the current monopolies. I love how /pol/ says gas the Jews but in the same sentence will praise the free market it's fucking hilarious.

>>61347422
>yeah no. did you forget every other more socialist, government controlled healthcare country has better and "cheaper" healthcare than us?

>HURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR THE USA HAS A 100% FREE MARKET HEATHCARE SYSTEM
>MY DOWN SYNDROME IS SO FUCKING BAD I AM UNABLE TO READ A SIMPLE POST AND AN IMAGE

Why did you even post?
You should probably just delete your post or close the tab at this point.

>>61347439
>I don't have an argument
Enjoy your skyrocketing healthcare prices then.
Tool.

>>61347358
>A free-market doesn't mean lower prices or more competition. Study a little economics 101. Free-market means monopoly, which shuts down markets and prevents entry by creating artificial barriers.

>>61347410
>fact
>government is SOLELY responsible for skyrocketing medical prices
Because the ruling class sticks together.
>medical care would be far cheaper in a free market
Actual pricing data from countries around the world directly contradicts your statement.
>Mont Pelerin society
Neoliberal DROPPED

>>61347445
>Do you really think doctors are paid per patient? They are paid a salary. The money you pay pays the wages of doctors, nurses and other staff...as well as buys material. Same as if you bought another product.
See? You don't even know what a private practice is. Can you tell me why any fucking thing that comes out of your mouth should be paid the least attention when it's just some projection of your bourgeois econ 101 fantasies onto whatever topic is at hand?

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>>61347447
Here, (You) earned this, kiddo.

>>61345496
>free market
>US Telecom

(you)

>>61347303
Vulcans were logical enough to have a moneyless society.

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>>61347422

>>61347477
>Because the ruling class sticks together.
What the fuck does that have to do with market competition or ANYTHING we're talking about?

>Actual pricing data from countries around the world directly contradicts your statement.
No it doesn't.
Why would it?

Wait, are you actually DUMB ENOUGH to think the USA has a free market in healthcare?
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

>Neoliberal
Ahhhhh yes this classic useless leftist word.
There's nothing new or liberal about the current world.
Kill yourself you brainwashed leftist.
I bet you're european.

>>61347482
You legitimately don't even have an argument at this point.
Swallow cyanide you delusional 12 year old.

>>61347303
>Won't work kid. I am like a Vulcan, I've shut off my emotions.
Uh, sweetie, vulcans don't shut off their emotions they just have perfect control over them. Half human vulcans like spock have very good control, but can still occasionally lose control and display anger or sadness.

>>61347447
>i hope you fascists
lmao. Antifa is the funniest thing I have ever seen

>>61347477
I don't even understand how dumb someone must be to think the USA has a free market in healthcare.
I mean you must have hardcore legit brain damage.
You didn't even read the image with outright refutes this myth.

Healthcare is the most regulated and controlled industry in the United States.

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>>61347509
>No it doesn't.
>Why would it?
see >>61347489

>>61347448
Take for example you are driving down the road and an ambulance is coming up behind you blaring it's sirens. What do you do? Move aside, right? The road is being prioritized.

How about in the case of a power outage and linemen are working hard to get power back up in key areas, namely hospitals....priority?

Saying some data should have better priority than others is not saying some speech should have better priority...it's saying when push comes to shove, room should be made for what needs to be done over some autists on the internet playing Overwatch.

>>61347509
There's no need to make an argument, since you haven't provided anything to argue against but bullshit that literally nobody but an autistic manchild like yourself would take seriously.

>>61347517
Antifa is fascists that need to be killed like you anti-free market national (((socialist))) turds.

>>61347524
LOL
WHY DO YOU CONTINUE TO PROVE ME RIGHT?

AHAHAHHAHAHHAHA
This fucking guy actually believes the USA has a free market in healthcare.
Refute my point about free market heathcare being cheaper or just close the tab.

>>61346091
It did became more regulated, that doesn't considering the sheer amount of terror the NSA caused.

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>>61347509
>>61347543
>AHHHAHAHAHAHAHA
>LOLOLOLOL
>AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
>LOLOLOLOL

>>61341587
I'm very confused about Net Neutrality. People keep saying if it gets taken away, things will go to shit, BUT, my mobile ISP already charges me extra for certain data (hotspots) so how is Net Neutrality doing anything? I'm not sure how it going away will change anything. I feel like we should ditch NN for better regulation.

>>61347537
>There's no need to make an argument, since you haven't provided anything to argue against
Look at the image in this post with the countless arguments and sources:
>>61347410

Now, don't you feel silly?

I support a free market in healthcare.
Why the fuck do you keep pretending the USA is a free market in healthcare?
Do you have legitimate downs syndrome?
Kill yourself.

>>61347459
Obombercare was written by the health insurance industry and conservative think-tanks. Consider that before you blame points on some lame made-for-TV continuum of acceptable thinking.

>>61347468
>They also have longer wait times unless the patient is critical
They also have disability programs that are more than just life support in a darkened room so that you aren't completely fucked while you're waiting that long.
>Europe is experiencing a wealth exodus because they are tired of having money stolen from them by the government
They're tired of the social contract and they don't want to be killed, this is true. All you little bourgeois college students had better learn about noblesse oblige really quick before shit hits the fan, because nobody actually cares enough to keep you alive without your forced labor green papers.

>>61347509
>market competition
IS A FUCKING MEME, you dolt. People who have money don't keep money by risking money. The whole point of the USA was to disempower the people to minimize political risk for property owners. Your fucking meme has nothign to do with reality.
>Wait, are you actually DUMB ENOUGH to think the USA has a free market in healthcare?
Do you support the complete revocation of intellectual property rights in the medical field? If not, then you're a protectionist. AHHAHAHA up your own ass
>Neoliberal
>Ahhhhh yes this classic useless leftist word.
>There's nothing new or liberal about the current world.
Then define neoliberal, and define liberal.
>hint: it has to do with the fetishization of exchange

>>61347523
>Healthcare is the most regulated and controlled industry in the United States.
Because hustlers couldn't be trusted without it. Just like I said above, you either support the complete abandonment of intellectual property rights in all medical devices and practices, or you're a fucking protectionist.

>>61347557
>no argument
I'm legit laughing right now.

>>61347469
>Free market led to the current monopolies
Did it? Because historically it seems collusion with politicians led to all major American monopolies. Its not like fresh competitors have a lot of overhead compared to the big fish until regulations come into play.

>>61347523
>Healthcare is the most regulated and controlled industry
Even more regulated then nuclear energy?

Or even more regulated then Space exploration?

And what about PMCs, are they "less regulated" then Healthcare?

How do you guys do this, you, like, gather up all regulations on a certain industry, add them and then compare? Or maybe you add the words/lines of each regulations pertaining to each industry, as not all regulations should count the same.

>>61347526
That happens in roads because they are limited by physical space. Internet is metered by how much speed you pay for, in your example the hospital would probably pay for a much faster link than you which would give them a faster connection. As long as the ISP actually has the infrastructure to support the amount of bandwidth they are selling there will be no problems. This problem only occures when ISPs sit on their money and refuse to upgrade infrastructure.

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>>61347561
Nobody said there was a free-market in healthcare, what the fuck are you even going off on. Jesus, take your medication faggot.

>>61347558
Right now net neutrality mostly addresses the problem of ISPs throttling certain sites and prioritizing others. I think that charging extra for hotspots should be illegal, but we have to take this one step at a time. Net Neutrality is an excellent first step.

>>61347573
Clearly, as anyone can see from the two autistic posts of yours I linked where you were laughing and spamming capslock like some autistic kid on full-tilt.

>>61347597
>Right now net neutrality mostly addresses the problem of ISPs throttling certain sites and prioritizing others
Didn't we sort this issue out during the Netflix debacle before net neutrality was even introduced?

>>61347575
No, they make it up because they're poli sci students and the bourgeoisie can opt out of consequences.

>>61347582
>in your example the hospital would probably pay for a much faster link than you which would give them a faster connection
Not likely, if radiology were actually being performed in hospitals instead of in India. They wouldn't have need for a faster link if they would only practice medicine.

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>>61347543
>This fucking guy actually believes the USA has a free market in healthcare.
It obviously does not have, because a free market is just a fantasy born out of deranged young minds. A free market is a impossible thing, period. Capitalism is symbiotic to a state.

But facts remain. USA healthcare system is the closest thing to free market, yet its the worst

>>61347558
That's not the standar for now.

They fought really hard to give anything digital for free, but greed will kill another dream.

>>61347613
>USA healthcare system is the closest thing to free market, yet its the worst
then why do people keep crossing both our borders for healthcare

>>61347571
>Do you support the complete revocation of intellectual property rights in the medical field? If not, then you're a protectionist. AHHAHAHA up your own ass
Intellectual property rights allow innovative industries to thrive. Protectionism keeps dying industries on taxpayer-funded life support.

>>61347574
The ISPs forced local governments to give them exclusive rights to the copper that public funds paid for, so in a way you are right that ISP did get some of their monopoly from government originally. But nowadays they negotiate between eachother boundaries of were they will provide service. Ever noticed that in any given area only one ISP will give acceptable speeds while the other options gives like a hundredth of the speed for more? That's because those ISPs colluded.

Verizon vs FCC
Comcast lawsuit throttling bittorrent
Verizon lawsuit throttling Netflix
ALL prior to "net neutrality", and means that it is against the law for any company to do this. Comcast even got sued over trying to tier their internet service and lost. Net neutrality does nothing for us users/consumers - it actually hurts us. It allows the big companies to pass the cost to us to pay, instead of them handling the bandwidth and usage costs on their end.

4chan and other sites? Kneejerk reactions, just like so many of you about net neutrality laws repealing. You don't really understand, but people are misleading you with "what-if" images which already are illegal according to law PRIOR to net neutrality, because they want to be able to ban/block/shadowban anyone who they don't agree with or like what they are saying; IE: Twitter, Facebook, Google/Youtube, etc. and allows the big telecomm companies completely control what you are seeing.

This is a board of smart people - I was expecting more from minds like yours.

>>61347610
Netflix ended up just forking the cash over to comcast. The thing is that companies smaller than netflix trying to get into the business won't have the money to do that, so net neutrality is needed to allow small businesses to grow.

>>61347629
Because medicare is better than the non-existant healthcare in mexico and because rich canadians want to go to fancy expensive hospitals.

>>61347571
>IS A FUCKING MEME
How is a long established economic concept a meme?
Are you like drooling right now or something?

>The whole point of the USA was to disempower the people to minimize political risk for property owners.
Okay, then why did USA have the highest living standard for workers in the entire world? Why did workers in the USA eventually get MORE property and more land in the USA than anywhere else?
Socialists need to be gassed, honestly.

>Do you support the complete revocation of intellectual property rights in the medical field?
Absolutely.
That's only ONE of the countless government regulations you skipped over.
Face the facts, the US healthcare market is extremely controlled and that's why the price has skyrocketed.
It used to be much more free market in the 50s and 60s.
We need to go back to the free market laws so that the price will come down.

>Then define neoliberal,
useless buzzword, only serves to confuse
>and define liberal.
useless buzzword, only serves to confuse

>fetishization of exchange
AHAHAHAHA
Holy fuck are you actually an unironic marxist?
Do you actually believe in all of that pseudoscience?
lmao I bet you think taking over the means of production will mean you will magically get more consumer goods and have to work less hours
lmao why do you people even exist?

>Because hustlers couldn't be trusted without it.
lel WHAT?
These regulations gave control of the heathcare industry TO the hustlers.
Kill yourself.

>you either support the complete abandonment of intellectual property rights in all medical devices and practices
I legitimately DO and I want to abolish the rest of the socialist/statist bullshit in my infographic.

>>61347575
>Even more regulated then nuclear energy?
Yes.

>Or even more regulated then Space exploration?
Yes.

>>61347612
>the bourgeoisie
AHAHAHAHAHA
Why do marxists still exist?
It's like they're actually proud of believing in pseudoscience.
They spend every waking moment of their lives believing in this pseudoscience bullshit.

>>61347660
>non-existant healthcare in mexico
Top kek, amerilards cross regularly to get treatment.

>>61347632
>Intellectual property rights allow innovative industries to thrive. Protectionism keeps dying industries on taxpayer-funded life support.
Yet most medical research is publicly funded and the patent rights are sold off to corporations.
>>>/pol/
and stay there.

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>>61347629
They don't. In fact, the opposite is true. Millions of Americans cross the Canadian border every year to buy pills. There is even a fenomenum called "medical tourism" where Americans go on "vacations" to other countries to receive their healthcare there.

The number you base your claim on is the Canadians who cross the border.

But when we analyse the numbers we see that only 50k Canadians go to USA for healthcare every year, and the vast majority are for non-emergency procedures. Literally a drop in the ocean.

But when we look at facts we can see that USA is 3rd world tier when discussing healthcare

Consider yourself schooled by a /pol/tard

>>61347680
Paid for treatment. While poor mexicans come here to using tax funded care.

>>61341587
net neutrality is a communist law that has been given a ludicrous name. if ISPs start offering packages instead of a generic connection to the internet then cancel your subscription. I work as a freelance programmer and even I have cancelled my internet service for 7 months until a new ISP moved into my area that offered a better service. I worked a shitty factory job for the time I was offline but I would gladly do it again rather than pay for trash service.

the real issue with net neutrality is weak-minded consumers trying to have their cake and eat it, too.
>whaaaa! why doesn't the world give me what i want for the price i want to pay!?
start your own ISP if you have a problem with it otherwise stop crying, it's pathetic.

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What have you done to save the internet?

>>61347632
Intellectual property allows corporations to hord publicly funded research and force people to pay out the ass for something they already paid for just so they can live. They are essentially holding a gun to your head and saying that they will kill you unless you pay for what should be yours.

>>61347613
>because a free market is just a fantasy born out of deranged young mind
Except it's not because the USA literally had a free market in heathcare in the past and was still very free market in the 50s and 60s.
http://www.freenation.org/a/f12l3.html

How is ACTUAL HISTORY a fantasy?
Just give up already.

>Capitalism is symbiotic to a state.
Then why did markets and judges etc come before the first states
why was there examples of capitalism without the state in human history

>USA healthcare system is the closest thing to free market, yet its the worst
Nope.
That would be Switzerland and Singapore but believe what you want.
The USA has specific regulations and laws that are mainly responsible for jacking up the price.

>>61347639
>hurts us
>doesn't hurt corporations who have already colluded with ISPs and control 90% of all internet traffic over the last ten years

Do some research, these lawsuits did nothing to stop these companies from lobbying with ISPs for backroom deals. Same way they lobby governments. Net Neutrality would help competitors and hurt big corporations. Which is precisely why it would help consumers. You would realize this if you were on the internet for more than a decade so lurk more newfriendo.

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I have an idea guys. Let's make yet another alphabet agency to bypass and enact these fake laws that are unconstitutional. What could go wrong? We'll let the government figure out what's best for us guy through these unelected officials. Obviously the right answer is more government.

>>61347700
Thinking like that is ridiculous. The internet is a necessity in modern life, and should be a human right as it allows for global communication (free speech). Claiming that people shouldn't have fair and reasonably priced access to it because an ISP doesn't offer it is just stupid.

>>61347706
>free market
>in a society with a state

I see you are not a very smart person

>Then why did markets and judges etc come before the first states
>capitalism before the industrial revolution

I see you are not a smart person. And you have absolutely no idea of what you are talking about

>>61347722
I know right, the government never caused the price of goods and services to dramatically rise before *cough* healthcare *cough*

we should trust the government with all our hearts

>>61347664
>How is a long established economic concept a meme?
Memes are concepts. The fact is that they don't work because class interests top all. Competition is only for show. Maybe pro wrestling is more on your level than economics.
>then why did USA have the highest living standard for workers in the entire world
Exactly when was this? Post-war? The peace dividend. What happened around 1971 to change this state of affairs?
>Why did workers in the USA eventually get MORE property and more land in the USA than anywhere else
Proofs
>>61347664
>lmao I bet you think taking over the means of production will mean you will magically get more consumer goods and have to work less hours
No to more consumer goods. I have enough and I'm not such a psychopathic half-dicked american that I don't know how to treat common facilities with respect.
Yes to less hours. Marx's dogma is good where it's good, but his system is still designed for a world of scarcity, not the world of abundance we could have now if scarcity were not the glue holding catpissalism together.
>lel WHAT?
Did you completely forget about home radiological cures and snake oil?
>Why do marxists still exist?
It doesn't take a Marxist to recognize that your concerns lie in traditional respectability and asset values, and by extension, cheap labor.
>Except it's not because the USA literally had a free market in heathcare in the past and was still very free market in the 50s and 60s.
Nigger, go look up the Hill-Burton Act and get back to us on that.
>Then why did markets and judges etc come before the first states
Capitalism is the system by which a state privileges capital over labor. This wasn't always the case. You don't even have to go full Marxist, just look at how wage labor is taxed more than passive investment.
>>61347722
Shut up, Ronald.

>>61347732
>I see you are not a very smart person
I can see you are not only a very smart person but you also have no argument or refutation. lel

>And you have absolutely no idea of what you are talking about
Read actual human history desu.

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>>61347664
>>61347679
>AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA

>>61347679
There has not been a true communist society. On a side note, the FSF is basically preaching a gospel of software communism

>>61347769
Don't you need a state to regulate the value of money?
Don't you need a state to enforce contracts?
There is much infrastructure that you are taking for granted.

>>61347706
>Then why did markets and judges etc come before the first states
How stupid are you? Medevial kingdoms are states. A state is just another word for a government (or a nation). We had Kings with peasants serving them before we had markets. Also judges are part of the state.

>>61347692
But they don't. American dental health care is so fucked up people are going in droves to mexico where braces cost 2000 pesos, including, I shit you not, a 500 peso fee to get your braces sent from the US. The braces themselves cost very little, it's the US dentists who charge an astronomical fee for gluing them in. Also, illegal immigrants don't get health care, and any immigrant who impersonates or fraudulently claims to be a citizen faces prison as a mandatory sentance.

>>61347750
>Memes are concepts.
So?
I'm talking about long established and accepted theories here.
How dumb do you have to be to not know what market competition is?

>class interests
Class is fucking irrelevant, holy fucking shit, you people are a cult.

>Competition is only for show
Then why does it force prices down? Why does it increase efficiency?

>Maybe pro wrestling is more on your level than economics.
TOP KEK
You dont even accept something as basic as market competition.
I mean how fucking stupid does one person have to be?

>Exactly when was this? Post-war?
During the mostly free market gilded age. Highest wages and living standards in the world for workers.
Post war boom was pretty good too.

>What happened around 1971 to change this state of affairs?
USA went off the gold standard entirely and went 100% fiat money.
Of course you have no idea what any of this means mr "me understand economix durrr"

>Proofs
People came from poverty all over the world to live and work in USA, they bought land and started accumulating property.

>I have enough and I'm not such a psychopathic half-dicked american
Yes, because want cheaper food and cheaper housing so I don't have to work as much.
You're the psychopath for wanting to prevent this from people.

>I don't know how to treat common facilities with respect.
what the fuck are common facilities?

>Yes to less hours.
How?
Working hours are a function of worker demand, if prices were low enough and wages were high enough, workers would find jobs with fewer hours. It's what has actually fucking happened without government involvement over the past 200 years.

>Marx's dogma is good where it's good, but his system is still designed for a world of scarcity
Marxism is PURE pseudoscience and PURE ideology that doesn't even work on people.
lol dialectial materialism is horseshit

Marxism is an embarrassing religion.

>>61347788
>Don't you need a state to regulate the value of money?
no, there are plenty of currencies that exist without regulation. even the US dollar has a relative value that doesn't require the state to regulate, they just print it and drive inflation which creates the illusion of regulation.
>Don't you need a state to enforce contracts?
again, no. there are far better reasons to not break contract than the law. there are black markets with less broken contracts than legal enterprises.
>There is much infrastructure that you are taking for granted.
bureaucracy offsets the benefit of public infrastructure 10x over. this is a mathematical problem and there's no excuse for making this mistake other than lack of research.

>>61347862
>Marxism is PURE pseudoscience and PURE ideology that doesn't even work on people.
>lol dialectial materialism is horseshit
True. Marxism/Communism/Socialism is a nice sounding idea but it's the wrong thing for humanity as a species.

>>61347723
like i said before. net neutrality is really all about communists crying for free shit.
>waaahhhhhh! b-b-but i have a human right to other people's labor. it's not s-slavery i swear.
grow up, commie.

>>61347750
>Did you completely forget about home radiological cures and snake oil?
Extremely small part of the healthcare market that would be solved with our current abundance of information and an abundance of 3rd party testing agencies.

>Hill-Burton Act
>The reality, however, did not nearly meet the written requirement of the law. For the first 20 years of the act’s existence, there was no regulation in place to define what constituted a "reasonable volume" or to ensure that hospitals were providing any free care at all.

>and get back to us on that.
Nobody agrees with you idiots here.
The strawpoll ITT showed most people here support the free market.

>Capitalism is the system by which a state privileges capital over labor
It doesn't privilege anything. It' just a system of private property laws and supports voluntary human interaction.

>just look at how wage labor is taxed more than passive investment.
Why do you think I support a free market then, you idiot?

>>61347713
Directly from one of the smaller internet providers on the new net neutrality laws "“Internet service should be provided as a public utility, and communities that don't do that in the next 10 or 20 years are going to severely regret it, as they continue to be pummeled and pumped dry of money by companies like Comcast,” Montgomery said.
>companies will just create tiered services if net neutrality is overturned!
http://www.reviews.org/internet-service/comcast-xfinity-internet-review/
Oh look, tiered service
lmao. everyone is being fucking duped and consumers are footing the fucking costs.

>>61347907
No one said that internet access should be free. Net neutrality just insures that ISPs deliver what you pay for without fucking with it in ways that benefit them. Also most of those lines were built with public funds, so if anything they should be run by local governments and we should only have to pay as much as it takes to maintain them (we can still have plans based on speed, allowing some to pay for more of the maintenance than others).

>>61347786
>There has not been a true communist society. On a side note, the FSF is basically preaching a gospel of software communism
Because it's theoretically impossible.
You literally have to deny humans have brains to accept it.
It denies human instincts. It is pseudoscience that college kids believe in.

> the FSF is basically preaching a gospel of software communism
top kek, nah they support free markets(ANTI PATENTS AND COPYRIGHT)

stallman himself said he wasnt in support of communism

>>61347788
>Don't you need a state to regulate the value of money?
holy shit FUCK NO
That's one of the main things we are fighting against.

>Don't you need a state to enforce contracts?
Yes.

>>61347801
>Medevial kingdoms are states.
There were countless prehistoric societies before the medieval ages, idiot.

>>61345496
Lol he biased the questions on purpose. Nice try nigga.

>>61347930
Of course there were other societies before the medieval ages, I was just using them as a well known examples.
>Medevial kingdoms are states.
They are states you fool. A state (as defined by the oxford dictionary) is any politically organized community living under a single system of government

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>>61347930
Yep, communism doesn't work because Marx didn't realize that humans are basically shitty

>>61347862
>How dumb do you have to be to not know what market competition is?
I'm fully aware of the concept and the morality it's meant to symbolize. How dumb do you have to be to believe it is nearly as prevalent in fact as your theories otherwise require?

>>61347862
>Class is fucking irrelevant
Not at all. The rich want to stay rich. The rentiers want to stay rentiering. The elite want to stay elite, and to do that, they all have to support the elitist system.
It's like you live in a coloring book or something and have no idea how things actually work in the real world. You're a child playing a videogame for score, not to win.
Did you look up Hill-Burton or are you just trolling?

>>61347278
Easy. Just pick a small number of top websites and categorize them. The rest go into the "Other" category.

>>61347926
>most of those lines were built with public funds
false. you're just lying now to justify your desire to take advantage of others.
>they should be run by local governments and we should only have to pay as much as it takes to maintain them
yep, because that's how local governments work. what magical wonderland do you live in?

if you really care that much then start your own ISP, otherwise stop telling the people who did how to run their companies.

>>61345496
fuck you and your biased poll. Go back to /pol/ and never leave again

>>61347995
I would love to start my own ISP. Unfortunately local governments have deals with the big ISPs preventing me from using already existing infrastructure.

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>>61347358
>Free-market means monopoly
What

>>61347869
>no, there are plenty of currencies that exist without regulation.
But they're pretty shitty stores of value, kek.
>again, no. there are far better reasons to not break contract than the law. there are black markets with less broken contracts than legal enterprises.
If creditors in "white" markets tried any of that, though, they'd be expropriated within hours.

>>61347910
>The strawpoll ITT showed most people here support the free market.
/pol/ is known for shilling. Why would I trust an online poll?
>It doesn't privilege anything. It' just a system of private property laws and supports voluntary human interaction.
Privileges for those who control the means of production, did you just say?
>supports voluntary human interaction.
Free markets are not capitalist. They are not economic ideologies. They are tools of exchange. Capitalism is an ideology. Capitalist privilege includes such as restricting the voting franchise to landowners, capital gains tax discount, local tax discounts for importing (((jobs))),...

>>61347930
>That's one of the main things we are fighting against.
Then what do you use to store value and defer consumption, if money swings like cryptocoins?

>>61348010
Federal governments are the ones who locked you out of using the state-funded telephone local loops to deliver IP traffic. Really, there's no reason these people shouldn't be at-will employees that we can fire on a moment's notice.

>>61348015
When iterated to its logical conclusion, it does.

>>61348010
>local governments have deals with the big ISPs
this is exactly the problem that net neutrality misses by a mile. it's not promoting neutrality when it fails to address the issue of favoritism that prevents competition in the first place. if the government really cared about neutrality it would crack down on local governments colluding (illegally) with ISPs for their own benefit, and allow for competition which would render the issue of packages and throttling irrelevant.

>>61347526
Any network traffic as important as an ambulance or a hospital (e.g. remote surgery) should be going through a private link. Sharing infrastructure with normal internet traffic is asking for a disaster.

>>61348064
You are right that the local governments need to be cracked down on, but that doesn't make net neutrality any less valid. ISPs need much more regulation to stop the crap they are doing and net neutrality is one of those things that we need.

>>61348082
>ISPs need much more regulation
wrong. stop meddling in people's shit son.

>>61341705
this isn't necessarily true, its just a possible response to the proposed changes by ISPs/sites

>>61348052
>But they're pretty shitty stores of value, kek.
the value of the US dollar isn't actually set by government. When the government prints money it creates inflation but the actual value that the currency represents is beyond the US government's control. have you ever heard the term "petrol dollar?"

>>61347278
Not websites, traffic types.

Looking at the comments here in this thread that are pro statist and even communist is depressing. We really need to go back to the founding of this country and make sure you're only allowed to vote if you own property and pay property taxes. It makes little sense to allow people to vote on such matters if they have zero skin in the game. It's also a shame women can vote but we can't put that genie back in the bottle I imagine at this point.

>>61348102
>wahh regulation is bad
Laws and regulations were created to protect the people. Corporations aren't people, they are organizations meant to make profit by any means necessary, we need to regulate them to stop them from abusing people.

>>61347750
We absolutely live in a world of scarcity, for every American living a "poor" life there are tens of people trampled on and living in self made mud huts, lucky to afford a years worth of rice for their families.

>>61348135
>Laws and regulations were created to protect the people
Wrong.

>>61348082
>net neutrality is one of those things that we need
i know this might be hard for a millennial to understand, but you don't need the internet, you just want it. i've gone months without it no problem. in fact, it might be good for you to go a few months without it just to see what the world was like before. hint: it was better.

>>61348146
It was boring and we nerds didn't get laid either.

>>61348146
Just because you only use the internet to go on 4chan and be depressed doesn't mean the rest of us don't use it for productive things. It's impossible to work remotely or run your own online business without the internet. Also more and more companies are only accepting job applications through their websites. You need to understand that the internet is becoming a need and that letting corporations fuck you in the ass because they told you they "own" it is just stupid.

>>61348164
All the more reason to make sure government is out of it and a free market is in place.

>>61348164
i'm a freelance programmer, kiddo, i use it productively. thinking you need something is the best way to get yourself fucked by the guy selling it. everything is a trade, and if you go to the table thinking you have no choice you're going to lose on every deal.

>>61348155
i had a sneaker net in my area that passed around source on disks. it was badass, and added a nice social element to hacking that is all but nonexistent today. thanks internet.

FYI anyone that was alive and old enough to have a job and pay for internet in the 90's should realize what a vestigial free market will do. Example dialup ISP's after some deregulation sprang up everywhere and drove the costs down quite a bit in short order. That was just a small taste of a vestigial free market that slipped through the cracks of government over regulation.

>>61346997
Are you retarded? Not every job provides health insurance.

Also here's a protip, you still end up paying more in a fully "free market" system, because of all of the hospital visits and shit that poor and homeless people can't pay for, because hospitals literally cannot turn away sick people you fucking moron.

I'm just picturing how low my electric, water, and internet bill would be for the service I get if we had a more open and free market in the USA.

>>61348238
>Are you retarded? Not every job provides health insurance.
True
>Also here's a protip, you still end up paying more in a fully "free market" system, because of all of the hospital visits and shit that poor and homeless people can't pay for, because hospitals literally cannot turn away sick people you fucking moron.
Incorrect. There used to be massive private charities. Many health services still do pro bono work for charitable reasons but many do not because of how stifling government is now. Poor people would have to pay for their mistakes but would also rely more on private charity which would be much more efficient and helpful to the poor than the government. How do you think people actually get helped even today? It certainly isn't by the government. You sound naive.

Monopolies and fine print/(((details))) in the contract.

>>61345496
Is there one guy that lurks 4chan and keeps plugging or this stupid fucking poll site? What a bunch of tripe

>>61348052
>Capitalism is an ideology
not really
it's just interacting with people peacefully and not taking this shit

it's called cooperation, it stems from our instincts

Im all for getting rid of NN. It didn't seem to fix anything anyway.

>>61347526
Please explain what on the internet would constitute "emergency data" comparable to emergency services.

>>61348217
>Thinking you need something is the best way to get yourself fucked by the guy selling it
You don't have to think it at this point because they know you need it to function in society. That's why it needs to be regulated like land lines.

>>61347574
Big surprise when you want to keep being a monopoly after it's been outlawed, you have to bribe politicians.

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>>61347664
>>61347679
>>61347706
>>61347910
>>61347930
>>61348052
>WHO IS JOHN GALT WHO IS JOHN GALT WHO IS JOHN GALT WHO IS JOHN GALT WHO IS JOHN GALT WHO IS JOHN GALT WHO IS JOHN GALT WHO IS JOHN GALT WHO IS JOHN GALT WHO IS JOHN GALT WHO IS JOHN GALT WHO IS JOHN GALT WHO IS JOHN GALT WHO IS JOHN GALT WHO IS JOHN GALT WHO IS JOHN GALT WHO IS JOHN GALT WHO IS JOHN GALT WHO IS JOHN GALT WHO IS JOHN GALT WHO IS JOHN GALT WHO IS JOHN GALT WHO IS JOHN GALT WHO IS JOHN GALT WHO IS JOHN GALT WHO IS JOHN GALT WHO IS JOHN GALT WHO IS JOHN GALT WHO IS JOHN GALT WHO IS JOHN GALT

>>61347469
I still have yet to see any history or proof of monopolies happening in the free market. In fact every single monopoly in existence has been grown or created via government and it's meddling.

>>61348431
What do you expact from a country where the speaker of the house is a Randian shill.

>>61347700
More places than you think have only one or two isps available. What makes you think they wouldn't just agree to both fuck you? It's not like they haven't done this before.

>>61348238
You do realize up till the mid 80s, hospitals could turn people away if they could not pay, but bleeding hearts changed that.

>>61348270
Dude my girlfriend works in healthcare. I've been in ambulances. There is literally a homeless woman that they pick up here every single week, at least once, and then "charge her" for it. They can't not take her, and the hospital can't not take her. Nobody pays for it, and the cost ends up going to everyone else.

Here's another thing, all of our medical costs are inflated as fuck.

Why is it that the only way you people think is "Government good" or "government bad". There is more than one single thing that goes into something. Jesus Christ the world is not so obnoxiously simple as to be easily categorized into two options.

>>61348498
A monopoly is the logical outcome of the free market. What do you expect to happen if a company has more wealth than other companies and doesn't want to compete? They are going to buy all the competition until they are the only one left, and when you try to start your business do you really think you'll deny a check for $30million just because you want to sell for lower prices?
Also since you want examples heres a little history lesson. Have you heard of Theodore Roosevelt? One of his more famous acts as president was lots of trust busting (trust being a term for a company that is basically a monopoly of companies in business agreements). One example of a monopoly that formed be the US had decent antitrust laws was the Northern Securities Company, owned by none other than J.P Morgan himself which controlled almost all the railroad shipping in the country which allowed them set whatever price they wanted. Theodore Roosevelt himself took the case to the supreme court and had them demolished, but it just shows that in a free market monopolies are going to happen.

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>>61342404
this image basically

>>61348594
>>61348608
>OMG why can't hospitals just let people die because they don't have money!?
You people are heartless monsters. Humanity has managed to get this far by working together in groups to improve ourselves as a whole, we should try to help everyone so that we can encourage a better tomorrow.

>>61348625
>A monopoly is the logical outcome of the free market
Stopped reading here. Pick up an ebook on economics for free or buy it off Amazon. Plenty to pick from. Economics 101 by Hazlitt would be a good starter and move on from there.

It cost money to provide Internet wouldn't this allow them to upgrade their services thus giving us better service?

>>61348660
Good to know that you stopped reading before my example, because if you read my historic example you would see that I am right.

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>>61341587
Currently, they're charging the customers (you) and the content providers (who need customers) which are places you want to get to.

They're getting paid twice for having the series of tubes, basically.

What they then want is to be able to sell 'preferred treatment'- you can still go everywhere, but if the content providers you want (say, Amazon) don't cough up, you might only be able to load Amazon pages at 1 MB/s.

Now, if Amazon didn't pay up, but Google Stores did, suddenly Google Stores, regardless of the respective sites actual virtues, can be browsed at a reasonable speed. Oh, shit.

Now add that the competition in the future might be between [up and coming webservice] and [entrenched industry incumbent]. Like, say, Netflix was five years ago. Someone who's busy spending their entire budget on growing as fast as they can and trying to establish a market is not going to also be able to afford onerous digital 'protection' fees; this is going to, in effect, turn into an incumbent protection scheme, because incumbents will be able to afford to pay for preferred treatment, meanwhile you can ACCESS all those other sites, but you aren't guaranteed to be able to do it quickly, or efficiently.

It's worth noting that when one of the ISPs was busy butting heads with Netflix back in the day, they """accidentally""" let their border routers handling Netflix traffic get jammed up and slow to try and tighten the screws on Netflix.

It's also worth noting that now that Netflix is big enough to survive on its own and yes, pay that protection money if it has to, it was a LOT less energetic in coming to Net Neutrality's aid.

>do we want to give the government even more power over the internet
Of course not you mong, but we also want the internet to continue functioning. This isn't a great fix, but it beats letting ISPs warp everything around the reality-distorting mass of their infinite greed.

>>61348608
If you're in healthcare then you should know why they keep consolidating and becoming worse and worse. Government is the primary cause. People are covered through medicaid and medicare. Don't you wonder why people find it hard to find quality on either? How about the VA? You can't see the forest for the trees.

>>61348674
Why would they upgrade their service? What are you going to do, switch providers? Ahahahaha, do it faggot, just try it.

That's right, bitchboy, you don't have a choice. It's give them money and go "Thank you sir, may I have another?" or it's not have a meaningful internet connection. They have no competition and no reason to try and please you.

>>61348679
Swing and a miss. The administration of Abraham Lincoln gave America the Hamilton-Clay program a national bank, railroad subsidies and land grants, high tariffs, excise taxes, and other interventions. The most important of the nineteenth-century American capitalists acquired their first great fortunes during the war. J.P. Morgan, Philip Armour, Clement Studebaker, John Wanamaker, Cornelius Vanderbilt, and the du Ponts had all been government contractors. Andrew Carnegie got rich speculating in bridge and rail construction while assistant to the Assistant Secretary of War in charge of military transport. You've proved my point.

>>61348728
Well the other side of the argument says they will use the extra income to upgrade their services, also I voted for Trump and I like my provider.

>>61348740
And in the year 1890, the Sherman Antitrust Act was passed, and the tables turned.
The FTC continues that work today, ensuring companies like Microsoft don't strangle the market.

>>61348781
Sure they do. That's why Ma Bell is back and we have even more consolidation of corporations than ever in all fields.

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99% of these are going to die out without net neutrality. They can't outbid facebook and youtube, they're fucked

Unless your website is a money making cash cow, you're fucked over

What 'free marketers' don't understand is that there has never not been a free market in all of human history.

Oh, it's not that magical fictional market? Oh maybe it's because organisations of power get together to hold onto this power. All the fucking time.

>>61348740
It doesn't matter were the money comes from, it's still a monopoly which was broken up when the sherman antitrust act was enforced. You need to get your head out of your ass and stop trying to redefine monopoly.

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>>61348781
Do you even know?

>>61348626
Comcast lost their lawsuit for tiered service to hide websites behind paywalls. The law is on the consumer side here, and it was before net neutrality. These little infographs are to scare people who don't research anything into supporting it.

BTW - Soros Foundation is pushing to support the net neutrality laws. That should tell you everything you need to know.

>>61348804
Monopoly created by government and "broken" by government. They sell the problem and the solution how novel! You sure got everything figured out anon.

>>61348815
It doesn't cost anything extra to transmit data from one website as opposed to another.

These companies just want to put this public resource up for bid. Basically create an ultimatum: we'll throttle you unless you pay us.

>>61348756
Well, I happen to think you're delusional and probably impervious to reason, but maybe I'm just being a tosser and you have reasons and schemas by which you are making perfectly valid decisions.

ISPs say that they're going to do major investment and upgrades anytime they want something. Every time they wants something. Oh, you just need to tear up that hassling government regulation, and there'll be a surge of jobs/investment/development/productivity.

Every time. And they never, ever deliver. Why would they? It's gotten so bad, actually, where they convince some gullible city to provide them with tax breaks, incentives, etc in exchange for them promising to reach some developmental goals (that they usually write themselves) and then DON'T reach that they've actually started getting sued/fined by cities. New York is the latest. Usually it's a matter of simply not wanting to extend service to poor/rural areas because the investment is significant and the return middling. Why bother? They don't compete with each other, they gouge their customers for all they can, and their customers have no other options.

Better still, they're pretty talented at casting net neutrality (or even regulation of ISPs at all) as a left v right issue. This is great for them; get half the country bogged down in something nonsensical and pointless that goes against their self-interest, because it goes with their partisan interests.

They also have a habit of buying state legislators and introducing state broadband laws that prevent competition or (my favorite) public/private town partnerships. Small government? Hah! They literally make it illegal for towns unsatisfied with them to go ahead and provide their citizenry with service and access. (It should be noted that most of the towns that do this are majority republican, and quite satisfied with them.)

Rep Marsha Blackburn, of... Tennessee, I think, is particularly infamous for this.

>>61348826
The monopoly was not created by the government you mouthbreather. It was created by J.P Morgan who managed to buy a series of railways by buying majority stakes in their stocks and then putting them all together into his company. The government was not involved in his creation of a monopoly.

>>61348826
You're right, the government shouldn't privatise anything, since it results in monopoly.

>>61348861
See >>61348740
I'm sorry but you must pass this IQ litmus test.

>>61348826
But there are certain things that are natural monopolies. For example, roads, railways, the electrical and water supply. This is why we have government management of all these resources.

The infrastructure for the internet is similar, monopoly conditions exist

>>61348877
Just because J.P Morgan initially created his money through government contracts doesn't automatically mean that the government made his monopoly. The government has no control over what a private citizen does with the money they pay him for a service. You might actually need mental help if you really believe that J.P Morgan making money through government contracts then deciding to spend it to make his own monopoly means that the government made that monopoly.

>>61348884
There is no such thing as a natural monopoly. Please read a book.

>>61348871
Implying the government isn't a monopoly

>>61348900
You can read up on the finer points and context of the times to better understand how things came to be about it. It still doesn't change the fact of the situation though.

>bill passes
>one isp says we won't restrict content
>everyone flocks to that one because they aren't retarded
>all other isps who tried all die out

>>61348902
Yeah there is.

Your entire town is hooked up to the same water supply. Every single person in the town gets water from the same source. This is a natural monopoly. It's not efficient for different water companies to all build their own network of pipes to each house, it doesn't work like that

There are certain resources like this which are basically public goods

>>61348928
No there is not. Are you even reading what you're posting? That isn't natural. You're proving my point.

>>61348921
The fact is that a private citizen created a monopoly and government had to bring it down. Just because the government paid him for some contract work that doesn't automatically make his company a government formed monopoly. Please get that through your thick skull.

>>61348928
BTW there is also no such thing as public goods either. FWIW

>>61348924
What's stopping a small is company from stealing customers? Cable companies are doomed when Google fiber is available anyways.

>>61348943
You're being pedantic. It's easier just to admit you're incorrect and move on or not post at all.

>>61341587
Take this
https://youtube.com/watch?v=wtt2aSV8wdw

>>61341705
That's retarded and wrong. Man, I wish everyone who believed these garbage images would get the fuck of the internet, you don't belong, normie.

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>>61348937
learn something

this is taught in every econ class

>>61348907
There's nothing that isn't a monopoly. the trick is to have a monopoly that has some kind of representation to those it is not beholden to financially. For example, voters.

>>61348924
>one isp says we won't restrict content
>they make a shitton less money than other ISPs
>they get outcompeted since they cost way more
>once dead, the ISPs that do restrict content send their prices way up again

This shit has happened before.

>>61348957
>learn something
>
>this is taught in every econ class
Next you're going to tell me about trickle down economics. Hint it isn't a thing nor ever was.

>>61348924
Most of America doesn't have access to more than one or two ISPs. Usually, those are the big ones that are the lowest customer satisfaction rating companies in the country.

>>61348951
Because the big companies lobby and legislate like motherfuckers to prevent any competition. And 'small' companies have a hard time existing when A, the infrastructure required is so tremendously expensive, and B, they're being actively persecuted by larger incumbents.

>>61341587
Net neutrality is an SJW thing

>>61348982
m8, natural monopolies are literally econ 101 stuff
Here you go, if you want to read up on it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_monopoly

>>61348978
the userbase would compensate, if there is just one main one big companies have no other to turn to to provide any backing because there's no gain for them at all.

>>61345069
Your assessment of the situation is incorrect when viewed against the historic abuses of unfettered capitalism.

>>61348999
>m8, natural monopolies are literally econ 101 stuff
The very term "public utility" … is an absurd one. Every good is useful "to the public," and almost every good … may be considered "necessary." Any designation of a few industries as "public utilities" is completely arbitrary and unjustified.
— Murray Rothbard, Power and Market
https://mises.org/library/myth-natural-monopoly

>>61349007
Yes, and workers everywhere will spread the communist revolution.
Relying on 'good will' is retarded. The main fault of laissaiz-faire economics is that they don't recognise that it relies on good will.

>>61348953
>You're being pedantic
You're the one being pedantic. I pointed out that you were wrong with factual examples and now you are trying to claim that my example "doesn't count" because the monopoly was "made by the government" even though it clearly wasn't. It seems that you now have to resort to ad hominen to try and discredit me.

>>61349023
>listening to a crazy jewish anarchist instead of actual established economic theory
wew lad

>>61349025
No, I showed you why the example was the opposite of your claim. The fact the government had to clean up it's own mess to boot.

>>61349031
Well if we're posting crazy such as wikipedia

>>61349037
The government didn't create that monopoly, a private citizen did. You have shown no proof that the government created that monopoly. All you have shown is that at some point J.P Morgan was paid money by the government to make stuff. That in no way means that J.P Morgan was suddenly a government agent.

>>61349061
Wikipedia is right more often than Encyclopedia Britannica.

>>61349061
Mises.org get 19 million dollars a year from large companies to tell people that letting them do what they want is a good thing.

I'm not going to link you to governmentpropaganda.gov and tell you it's hard proof that government is good.

But corporate propaganda is fine!

>>61349061
>town of 40,000 people
>receives water from a reservoir up on the mountain
>receives power from high voltage lines carrying it from a coal fired plant 200 miles a way
>drives on a single highway to get to the next town

These are all examples of natural monopolies. Where you don't have a scenario of competition, you have one supplier
In fact, it would be very inefficient to have more than one supplier. To have 5 or 6 competing power plants, each with their own power lines. Or to section up the reservoir into 5 different sections, one for each company, each which has it's own network of pipes to the town.
Or to have 5 different roads in each direction, each with it's own toll booths.

This is just nonsense. Obviously things aren't going to work this way

>>61341705
They can do that now you stupid fuck. the only way to "enforce" net neutrality is by government regulation. Which is a lot worse than having to pay for your reddit like hbo you stupid fuck, see the FCC or ATF for more

>>61349097
Obviously things wouldn't be done that way. That's all been addressed before how things would likely be handled by private companies. Feel free to look into it if you wish.

>>61341587
>The Communist scum on /g/ actually believes that regulating the free market is acceptable.

>>61349142
What, you mean we'll have hovercars and free energy?

Well we don't. Call me when you develop it though

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Couple of commie posters on /g/

>>61349162
horsewithblinders.jpg

Free marketers actually believe these two things at the same time
1. Government is useless
2. Government can stifle innovation

In a free market, corporations are extremely effective at stifling innovation.

>>61346795
>everyone will have that same speed
>just like communism
>/pol/ on the other hand will unironically defend this

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>>61349187
this is where I go full /pol/ack

Innovation doesn't come in response to some economic system or another. Innovation comes from smart people.

>>61349221
And smart people can't innovate if they can't afford to live and can't access information.

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Most of the people in this thread arguing against net neutrality are paid shills. Just remember that always when you see these faggots trying to stir shit.

Proof they're shills:
Go to voat and look at the discussion on net neutrality. Even though voat is full of trumpers and altfags it's overwhelmingly pro-net neutrality. Why? Because it doesn't get much traffic and so no paid shills are wasted.

Go on comcast's facebook page they have a thread up there right now how much they love net neutrality and over and over again they're saying "no no title II is not net neutrality no no no it's some other bad thing"

Cause they know. Fucking everyone knows.

If you're in the smal small minority of people who are in this thread and genuinely against net neutrality.... well you're a fucking moron.

The rest of you gents enjoy your pajeetcoins as they've been deposited into your accounts.

>>61349270
Then they werent smart to begin with

>>61349290
I don't think that growing up poor inherently makes a person an idiot. You could be smarter than Einstein but never achieve anything if you had to work at a factory everyday just to afford food.

>>61349270
>if they can't afford to live and can't access information.
What does that have to do with netneutrality.

I don't think ISPs are threatening to starve people to death or are preventing people from going to university.

>>61349221
Innovation comes from a middle class. A middle class that is steadily destroyed by policies designed to create a system in which wages are driven as low as possible no matter the labour.

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>>61349221
There are smart people all over the world. For some weird reason they're all coming to big US tech cities before they do anything worthwhile.

God save your dishonest non-arguments for fucking facebook. Are you so stupid you actually believe this shit? It's like something a stay at home mom who shills wraps on facebook would post to her wall.

You should work at hallmark

>>61341587
> A customer paid for a certain service, how can the service provider not fulfill its end of the agreement?
The customer does not have an agreement with the ISP to deliver a set amount of throughput to *any* point on the internet. That would be absurd. The customer pays for throughput only on traffic where the other end of the connection can provide that bandwidth into their network at (or greater than) that rate.
eg: If I ran a server on an old machine with a 10mbit card, it is obviously unreasonable for the customer to complain to his ISP that my server is not maxing out his connection. It is beyond their control.

The true redpill is realizing that even if it wasn't entirely beyond the ISPs control, (eg: very asymmetrical and saturated links coming in, they don't want to upgrade the links unless they get more money), that this is (or ought to be considered) fundamentally equivalent to the above situation where the egress party cannot technically pump enough bits in because they only have a 10mbit card. It doesn't matter if Netflix has thousands of 10gbit cards, negotiating the agreements matters just as much.

Or should we just force ISPs to spend millions of dollars expanding their backbone whenever a link becomes saturated? Why *shouldn't* ISPs be able to recoup costs when one peer massively strains their network? The tolls that everyone is afraid of are what keeps the internet growing and healthy.

>>61349326
No, smart people are pretty much going to do their thing no matter what economic regime they're in. Potentially you could bump it up a little with a competitive school and economic system.

>>61349332
If your country has lots of high IQ people, it will have lots of innovation and scientific progress. It doesn't really matter so much if you're socialist like Sweden, or some sort of free market utopia.

>>61349325
Without net neutrality some people will be priced out of access to information, also information could be censored by ISPs if it doesn't match their agenda.

>>61349275
If you honestly believe that regulating the free market will benefit the consumer then you should really gtfo.

>>61349305
but it doesnt make them smart either if they cant get out of their predicament

>>61349348
The isp and the backbone provider are different people you moron. The ISP and netflix both pay the backbone provider (Its actually more complex than this but I have to keep it simple for you)

>>61349373
where did I claim they weren't?

>>61349365
I don't think intelligence is determined by the social status of your family. Also there are many intelligent people who can't advance or even get jobs because they suffer from mental illnesses and can't get capital to innovate.

>>61349363
Reaganomics is a proven fraud, yet it is still believed in.

>>61349353
If innovation happens naturally no matter what, why is half the US GDP poured into military research?

>>61349354
>also information could be censored by ISPs if it doesn't match their agenda.
What do you think is more likely to happen?
The government systematically censoring the internet to prevent dissent which is already happening or a company which cares about profit only censors things for no reason at all.

>>61349353
>If your country has lots of high IQ people, it will have lots of innovation and scientific progress. It doesn't really matter so much if you're socialist like Sweden, or some sort of free market utopia.
High IQ people go where there is opportunity before they do anything. I know people in the bumfuck midwest who would be making 100s of thousands of dollars a year if they would move out to the coast but for whatever reason they piddle around making websites in their home town thinking eventually they'll "build their business" into something when in reality they've already wasted millions of dollars in opportunity cost.

Please provide me any indication that the world works like you're pretending.

>>61349363
Nice try faggot.. why don't you address my accusation that YOURE A PAID SHILL?

>>61349383
I didn't know "common sense" was called reaganomics.

But calling common sense a fraud certainly explains a lot about you people.

>>61349415
I am not.

I don't even live in the US.

But I have seen what the regulation of the internet by the German and EU government has done here...

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>>61349407
>High IQ people go where there is opportunity before they do anything.
People are not machines. They are people.
They do what they do

>>61349377
>where did I claim they weren't?

You said they were not the same right here
>Or should we just force ISPs to spend millions of dollars expanding their backbone whenever a link becomes saturated? Why *shouldn't* ISPs be able to recoup costs when one peer massively strains their network? The tolls that everyone is afraid of are what keeps the internet growing and healthy.

If your ISP or netflix saturate a backbone provider's link they will pay money to the backbone provider who will expand their pipe in order to retain business.

>>61349417
The free market came up with wonderful things like brick dust in flour and wooden 'pips' in strawberry jam. The history of consumer protection is a history of the free market screwing consumers.

>>61349433
Don't forget, Coca Cola used to contain actual cocaine.

Easy to sell when you get your customers addicted

>>61349428
>People are not machines. They are people.
>They do what they do
Once again another non-answer. Why don't you sound american?
Do people ever do the needful?

>>61349400
I think it is more likely for a corporation to censor in the pursuit of profit. The government still has to follow the first amendment, meaning the only censorship they can really carry out is taking down things that violate the law. A corporation that is unregulated however, can take down anything they please.

>>61349441
No, it's an answer. It means you are wrong about human nature.

People are not simple economic quantities, chasing money around. They are people. They have nations, families, homelands, religions.

>>61349433
>>61349438
Do you honestly think that flour with wood in it would have sold well, after people knew?

Also the coca cola thing is a retarded non argument.

laughing so hard at all the burgers who think the internet will be destroyed. The EU already has a net neutrality law on the books, and the rest of the world will follow suit. Only america is dumb enough to cuck themselves like this.

>>61349438
Tobacco contains real nicotine too.

>>61349426
Kindly fuckoff then before we bring some freedom to your dumb kraut ass.

>>61349452
Who has the big money advertising budget? The company does

>>61349400
>company which cares about profit only censors things for no reason at all.
This is called advertising.
It's been around for a good 100 years now.
Besides, did you fucking SEE intel's slides about Epyc? That's some next level newthink right there

>>61349380
intelligence is not a matter of someone who can read a book, but also someone who knows how to find different ways to get themselves to an advantageous position. Also, your "anyone can be smart" stance is naive as fuck. It's just like table hand outers to think that they can be more if they were given the chance. Fuck chance. Make your own life or you're as dumb as a drunk hobo.

>>61349448
>People are not simple economic quantities, chasing money around. They are people. They have nations, families, homelands, religions.


Now you're denying the free market. The invisible hand should be magically moving the labor where it needs to go.
Please fuckoff this discussion if you're not american.

>>61349446
>to censor in the pursuit of profit
How do you gain a profit from stopping someone to learn about science.
Or how do you make profit from censoring politics?

Maybe my perspective is wrong here because the German state censors a lot of things...

>>61349465
Some people suffer from actually mental illnesses and cannot perform the social functions required to get ahead in todays society no matter how smart they are. You are ignorant if you think that the only type of intelligence is the ability to socialize and worm your way around todays system.

>>61349465
Luck is a massive factor in success. You can be successful without effort, but you can't be successful without luck.
But without effort, you need much, much more luck. For example, being born successful.

>>61349465
WHy don't you talk like an american either?

>>61349470
But people are not simply "labor"

The people in Bavaria have been living there for 1000's of years. They literally evolved there. Should they all move to Denmark to chase careers? No, they are rooted to their homeland. This is human nature, not what you are saying

>>61349477
>Some people suffer from actually mental illnesses and cannot perform the social functions required to get ahead in todays society
those people are not someone I would expect to be smart and creating the next innovation

>look at that retarded kid. Give him a chance and he can be the next einstein!

File: Hang_in_there.png (34KB, 300x250px) Image search: [Google]

34KB, 300x250px

>All of these people derailing the discussion by talking about economics
Can we go back to talk about net neutrality?
Confusing posters from the subject matter is just as bad as outright lying.

>>61349482
It's self defeating loser talk actually.
Maybe that's why you're sitting at home getting paid to shill for an ISP you've never heard of.