/mkg/ - mechanical keyboards general

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is this a varmilo va87?
I'm not sure because the keys seem more recessed

>>61284128
>is this a varmilo va87?
no

>>61284128
generic TKL like Filco Majestouch 2 TKL Hakua with DSA Candy

>>61284128
>varmilo va87
I'd like to know. I've been looking for a simple TKL without any LEDs or other bullshit.

I need to pick up a cordless setup for occasional use with my Steam Link. My ideal is a TKL with something tactile or clicky, with slightly inset keys like what >>61284128 looks like, and with LEDs I can toggle without software. Does such a thing exist? I don't mind the DIY route if it's just the assembly, although I've never done it before.

>>61284155
yeah i love the clean look too, hopefully someone knows the model

>>61284396
Drevo Excalibur has everything you're looking for except inset keys. Hella cheap too.

>>61284465
>>>61284396 (You)
>except inset keys
And cordless! Not a bad looking board otherwise though.

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Kind of a follow on from the last thread, since I can't get a buckling spring tenkeyless I'm after the next best thing. Some anon recommended 'Matias Click' switches, are they the closest thing to a buckling spring or should I go for some kind of ALPS?

When we will sacrifice Unicomp to Gateron God?
We need capacitive buckling springs in discrete form.

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>>61283641
anyone have modified chinkforces? It's a comfy keyboard with orings installed.

>>61284935
Matias switches actually are modern ALPS clones. Their click ones are buckling spring levels of tactile and clicky.

Unicomp ultra classic or Cherry G8
Unicomp:
>Buckling springs
<2KRO
Cherry
>Nkro by PS/2
<Cherry logo

How to minimize ping sounds? My mkg is from OP.

>>61285131
Cherry G80s are only 2kro. Doesn't matter what connector. The PCB has no diodes.

For a poorer and new mechanical keyboarder, is the ducky one a good buy?

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>>61285114
Any recommendations for a keyboard that has them? A popular one seems to be the 'KBParadise V80', which I've not heard of but people seem to like.

Since I'm ordering from the US and going to get raped by import fees and shipping, I may as well buy two keyboards. Is there another kind of switch I should look into? Kind of like an insurance in case I don't like the Matias ones.

>>61285131
><2KRO
Not sure where you heard that, but the Unicomp keyboards have plenty of rollover, it's definitely not 2KRO, but it's also not NKRO. I've had four or five of them (they keep dying to beer) and never had a problem playing games on them at all, I can hold down, shift, alt and caps and still have full movement of the WASD keys. It's only if I hold shift, alt and caps, then press another key (e.g. Q for mic) lose the ability to press A, but it's kind of a retarded example and doesn't seem like something you'd ever need to do. Mine have all been PS/2 though, I'm not sure if the USB ones are the same.

>>61285222
KBP is popular but I hear they have QC issues, particularly with butchering the switches during installation and leading to early switch failure.
Matias themselves used to have a 65% board with clicky switches but they discontinued the PC version.

>Unicomp keyboards have plenty of rollover

With two axes (row and column) and without any diodes to control the direction signals flow in, a keyboard can only be 2KRO. Key rollover means it'll correctly register at least that many keys no matter what combination you press. It is possible for a 2KRO keyboard to register more than 2 keys depending on the matrix layout; it just can't do it over the whole board.

>>61285198
Those diodes cant be added latter right?

>>61285320
Not unless the PCB was laid out with traces for the diodes and there's a way to switch it over from one set of tracks to the other.

>>61285361
Even then the keyboard firmware's anti-ghosting code would still block the key combos you can't get on the 2KRO matrix.

>>61285314
>With two axes (row and column) and without any diodes...
Didn't know it worked like that. I guess its because I do nothing but type and game, when I'm holding keys it's usually just modifiers.

>>61285106
The varmilo va68m is nicer and comfier imo.

>>61285220
Yes, try to get one with white/gray PBT keycaps. I've heard the blue/gray keycaps are only pad-printed, but I don't know if that's true.

I want to get a new keyboard, something small because I'm getting autistic about my hands being perfectly centered to the screen while I type without having the mouse at 1km to my right.

I'm starting to learn web developement, do you thinkg I'll miss the F_ row and/or arrows much?

OEM or Cherry profile?

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What kind of Alps is this, 'Alps SKCM Black'?

They are in a Dell keyboard.

>>61286050
yes

>>61286050
no

>>61286050
maybe

>>61286050
I presume that's a Dell AT101W, aka a Bigfoot.

>>61286050
can you repeat the question

>>61286094
Yeah.

Deskauthority says that ones with a Windows key (which these are) all use Alps blacks, so I guess that's what they are.

>>61284935
What about the F77 that was being discussed in the last thread? It's technically navless but the only difference is that it has a few extra keys between the arrow cluster and the navigation cluster which lets that island work as a tenkey if you wanted. Seems close enough to me, unless your autism is set on a true tkl and only that.

Buckling spring or alps?

For that matter, do matias quiets sacrifice tactility, or are they the same thing but quiet?

>>61286243
Hate the case design with its huge fuckoff bezel and the antiquated layout. Really wish they'd made modern boards with the switches instead of trying to make replicas.

>>61286275
Matias quiets are just a little less tactile because the click leaf in ALPS style switches adds slight tactility. They blow away Cherry switches for tactility regardless.

>>61286243
>F77
It's insanely expensive and I need muh F keys, plus it looks to be about as wide as a full keyboard anyway because of the big empty spaces on each side of the keys.

What about the new coolermaster master key S pbt?

I'd get a tada but it doesn't have F-keys or arrow keys which I still use.

>>61286358
Tada has arrow keys though

>>61286301
>>61286330
There's a compact version with normal bezels you mongs

>>61286380

My bad, but I still kind of use the F keys sometimes.

>>61286380
Still no F keys.

>>61286380
>"ultra compact" bezel is still huge

Why would you go on the internet and tell lies like that?

Also the layout is still shit.

>>61286389
>sometimes
If they're not an absolutely integral part of your workflow you'll be fine. I haven't had any problems pressing fn+5 every time I want to refresh my browser for example.
I also added myself a third layer which makes the tada usable as a 40% and I'm actually liking it, makes hitting f keys even easier. You could do something like that, maybe remap fn+home row to f keys if you really use them often.

In the end it's your personal preference, I just want to point out that they're far from unusable and a deal breaker if you're willing to get used to entering them differently.

>>61286330
>>61286380
>>61286389
>>61286409

This shit needs to get chinked, like right now.

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>tfw I secretly need F keys not for workflow, but for League, Broodwar, and Dota macros.

>>61286409
>the layout is shit
But it's not? You have the superior version of a tkl where the nav cluster can double as a proper numpad (no idea why that's not more popular), and you have the standard 60%.

I agree about the bezels though, they're definitely bigger than average. I don't mind but if you have limited desk space it could definitely make a difference.

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>>61286430
I know, the guy is such a faggot in his Q&A section too.

>why no F keys
>'dude just use Fn+F keys xd'

No, FAGGOT go FUCK YOURSELF. I want my true 87 key buckling spring keyboard, and I'm not about to go buy a thirty year old Model M off eBay for $500 that is covered in sperm.

>>61286445
Fair point

You could still remap some stuff around but I can see why you wouldn't want to do that

So should I get the new masterkey s pbt or the ducky one tkl pbt?

inb4 tada, I want F keys for dota memes and sometimes use them to control itunes, and I'm really afraid of spending 100+ on chink shit with no warranty.

>>61286469
I know, right? It's not like f keys have any effect on mouse placement/ergonomics (the main reason for 60-80% layouts), and it's not like you'll be spending $350 on a giant IBM-sized keyboard to conserve desk space.

>>61285220
Go nuts. Just don't spend the extra $$$ for RGB memes.

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Anyone know what kind of Cherry MX copy this keyboard is using?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01DBYNVSY

They just say 'blue', which isn't very helpful for determining if it uses Gateron, Kailh or whatever. It looks to just be the 'Easterntimes i-500' being sold under a different name, but I'm not sure if they all

>>61286728
Yeah this is the i-500 that's been mentioned a few times, that uses outemus.

I'm not aware of any of the various rebrands of it using different switches (and why would they, outemu is such cheap chinkshit that at that point nobody will bother making a knock off of THAT). Though if you're unsure, you can always buy it, pull off a keycap to take a look, and return it to amazon if you're unhappy.

Wich one?

https://aliexpress.com/store/product/Tada68-Mechanical-keyboard-gateron-swtich-65-layout-Dye-sub-keycaps-cherry-profils-enjoypbt-keycap-cherry-profile/2230037_32807055607.html

https://www.amazon.com/Mechanical-Keyboard-GATERON-Magicforce-Qisan/dp/B01E57PUNA

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>miameme
thought?

>>61286494
Both are nice. Get one's that cheaper.

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my mouth waters every time

>>61286812
Tada has actually good keycaps

Magicmeme is for when you want to buy your own, also it's not programmable

>>61287050
>2 Windows keys

haha
>>>/trash/

>>61287050
>Getting worked up over rubber domes

The tada68 has a 6.25u spacebar, right? Or am I blind and retarded

http://www.keyboardco.com/product-images/ibm_model_m_beige_usb_large.jpg

Good mouse to go with this?

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>hey senpai how u want ur keyboard logo?

>>61287098
Obviously you've never tried them if you refer to them as rubber domes.

Standard rubber domes have a little nub at the underside of them which hits against a membrane sheet registering a key stroke. Topre domes don't have that, they have a large dome with a spring underneath and it's the spring making contact with the PCB that registers the key stroke. It's a truly great feel, if you can't afford topre at least buy one of the NIZ, Noppoo or Plum topre clones and see for yourself.

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>>61287207
>it's another topre user defends his shit keyboard as 'not a rubber dome' episode

>>61287223
>It's another poorfag that can't afford to try topre

>>61287264
>he thinks I'm not typing this out on a gold plated tenkeyless ibm model m

>>61287207
I have. You don't even know how it works yourself. It's the metal in the spring getting closer to the pcb pads in an AC pulsed circuit. Capacitive means no electrical contact by definition. And all that changes is the point of actuation, not the key feel which is 99% same as any other halfway decent rubber dome over PCB. I got an old BTC-5100C for $3 that's 90% of the same experience.

Topre would be a fantastic board at a $30-$50 price point as a premium rubbber dome but they're nothing but meme garbage at the prices they ask for.

>typed from my original IBM beam meme

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>tfw you destroyed your black/black unicomp
>tfw they only sell black/pearl now
>tfw you can't even buy black keys for them because they only sell single space coloured keys

>>61287223
Is this guy HIV positive?

>>61287307
Just use your old keys on your new board.

>>61287315
I bought another with the intention of doing so but they don't fit, they moved from a single piece key to a two piece key, and they changed up the sizes of the spacebar and a few other keys.

>>61287272
I own IBM Model M's, F's and Beamsprings but I still appreciate topre for what it is.
>>61287291
I never implied it was the spring that gave it the great feel, It's funny how you try and change what other people say just so you can tell them they are wrong. Obviously it's the weighted domes that change the feel, I've just done a dome swap in my Noppoo 108. Clearly YOU do not know how they work since BTC 5100C dome slider boards are conductive and NOT capacitive.

>>61287336
Apparently you have no reading comprehension because I just said that it being capacitive had shit to do with the feel and a rubber dome is a rubber dome. There's nothing magical about their domes. What I said was their only distinction was their point of actuation compared to other ones. That is their only standout feature.

What I asserted is there is no great feel to their domes compared to other single dome rubber domes, full dead stop.

>>61287336
>I still appreciate topre for what it is
No, you aren't allowed to like it.

>>61287064
And I guess buying my own keycaps would put the price on par if not more expensive.

>>61287373
Actually there is a difference... Like I said in my first post, normal rubber domes are similar except they have a rubber nub at the bottom, when that hits a membrane you get a mushy as fuck feeling. Go find a $10 rubber dome keyboard, take it apart, cut them nubs off and put it together again. You'll notice how much smoother and nicer it feels to type on, similar to how topre feels except it wont function at all because it's not capacitive and it requires physical contact with the membrane sheets. The fact topre and topre clones are capacitive is what makes them so great.

Also BTC Dome with slider are not as good as topre, go watch chyrosrans videos. He said they were comparable, but still not as good. Plus BTC's were expensive as fuck back in the day as well. Point is topres feel great and they are well worth the money, only the poorfags would complain.

>>61287326
Two piece keys have been used on their boards depending on the model since forever. I'm guessing you had the old shorter spacebar and different bottom row modifiers.

What's wrong with your old one anyhow?

>>61287427
>forever
The original one I bought was from 2013, I don't know when they changed over to their new style.

>>61287427
>What's wrong with your old one anyhow?
Spilled beer on it, ended up selling it on eBay for 20% of what I paid for it.

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>>61287307
They do sell the black keys, send them an email. They'll sell you all the keys except for the right shift key which you can take from your current board or dye a pebble coloured one.

>>61287426
Step back a second and look at what you're arguing. Are you seriously trying to sell a keyboard on pure bottom out feel when its one unique feature is that you don't have to bottom it out?

Now that's just plain funny.

>>61287454
I mean I had a 2007 model that had two piece keys but the shorter bottom row keys.

>>61287504
Are you retarded? Topre pretty much forces you to bottom out... It the feel and sound that people care about, not the fact you don't have to bottom out to actuate keys. The fact it's capacitive allows them to produce high quality domes without the shitty nubs

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>>61287480
Yours looks really nice, I take it you ordered a set of black keys? What did it cost roughly?

I really like the plain looks of these, even got a plain LED cover on mine instead of having the Unicomp logo.

The company is weird though, I bought a Dvorak printed one off them once and it had a converter in it to make Dvorak inputs come out as Dvorak on a Qwerty configured OS. It totally screwed everything up because I had my OS language as Dvorak, so it just came out as nonsense. I had to get them to send me the normal non-messed up part and put it in.

>>61287532
That's weird, mine were definitely one piece, what colour was yours? Maybe all their black ones were one piece, and their black/pearl ones were two pieces?

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I want the cheapest possible TKL blank PBT keyboard with cherry blues. (of decent build quality)
Would this $89 ducky
https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=2424
and these $44 gateron keycaps
https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=1651
be a good choice?

Do they ship together if I buy them together?
Also, why are there images of different colorschemes for those gaterons below?
Can I choose a different colorscheme?

>>61287586
Mine was black with pebble keys. I got a white set and a black spacebar to get that two tone look a couple years before they released a similar one on massdrop.

>>61287586
Yeh I got the keyboard itself as a gift from my girlfriend then I asked Unicomp over email if they'd sell a full set of black blank keys, they said I can but I'd need to buy a different coloured shift key so I ended up dying that black to match. Any benefits to using dvorak? Can't say I've ever tried it.

>>61287586
Oh and the black blank keys cost the exact same as a regular blank set.

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>>61287648
>Any benefits to using dvorak
I don't really find it much faster than Qwerty (probably like 10-20%, but probably only because I'm so used to it), but it takes way less effort to use and is generally just lazier. The downsides are that shortcuts like ctrl+c etc. are a mess to use, you look like a retard in public when you need to type something up in Qwerty and you haven't used it in weeks or months, and everyone will know you have high functioning autism if they ever use your computer/laptop. It happened to me once while in a group of people in a professional setting, someone tried to type something up on my laptop and looked like they were about to have a stroke.

>Can't say I've ever tried it.
It doesn't take long to learn contrary to popular belief. The first week will be brutal and you'll be down to like 10wpm or less, but it's important to resist the urge to go back to Qwerty or you'll just confuse yourself. I was 'fluent' in probably less than a month.

>>61287771
You've made me want to change everyones keyboards at work to dvorak just to see their reactions. I'll probably switch my model f to dvorak at some point to try it since the board is fully programmable.

>>61287415
Good PBT blanks are around $40, quality printed ones around $70-$80

So yeah tada is actually a great deal in that regard, hence why it's shilled so much around here

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Who already pre-ordered Yoda 2?

I did.

>>61287792
>>61287771
>dvorak
Why would you do that when Colemak or even Workman exist?

Thoughts on rantopad mxx?
Gateron reds, metal frame, detachable usb etc

>>61287892
>Colemak
Do I look like a casual to you?

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Model M owners on suicide watch

https://www.modelfkeyboards.com/

>>61287936
>he thinks people are that elitist
No one cares, cheaper keyboards are a good thing, and we've already had this discussion a few posts up, these keyboards are shit.

>>61287952
>people aren't elitists
>waste hundreds of dollars and rainbow colored meme caps and braided cables

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R8 my keyboard

Also where is good place to order SA Grade keycaps if you live in UK?

>>61288152
Nice Christmas tree, now post the keyboard

>>61287936
If unironically buy one if it had a function row. As it is, a nearly-fullsize (85%? 90%?) board lacking a function row makes absolutely no sense, and I don't want to pay over $300 on a tkl - I'd rather buy an ergodox with alps.

>>61287921
How the fuck is Colemak casual? Dvorak is what normies go to when they want to be hipster and different by learning a new layout, but haven't heard of anything else.

>>61287952
>these keyboards are shit
Lol fuck off, Model F's are basically the best keyboards money can buy. I prefer my 4704 to beamsprings.

>>61288406
Dumb fucking Colemak casual.

Why do mech keyboards usually come with no wrist rest?

I don't want to sound like a faggot but I'm a sucker for wrist rests

>>61288417
>no F row
>'best keyboards money can buy'
Go kys you are yourself.

>>61288428
Cherry sells a wrist rest for their MX Board

>>61288439
Are you incapable of using a function key you retard? You don't belong here.

>>61288455
>saves absolutely zero practical space because who the fuck cares about the vertical height of a keyboard
>have to press fucking function keys just to use my F row
Yeah nah, get the fuck out you retarded shill, I'm not paying $400 for your shitty keyboard with no F row, faggot.

>>61287936
An SSK with model F internals is a better choice, plus they sell a lot better

>>61288421
Workman actually, but Colemak usually comes with most OSes so I usually recommend it as well. Dvorak on the other hand has no advantage over these two.

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>>61288466
>Not realizing there's a space saver case option
You are an absolute mong, get the fuck out of here.

>>61288492
But how would one create such a thing

>inb4 it costs $1000 to source all the parts

>>61288502
What does that have to do with anything?

The logical thing to do would have been removing the function row from the kishsaver but keeping it on the f77, because if you're not even going to remove the numpad then you almost definitely have enough space for an extra row at the top.

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>>61288503
All you need is:
An IBM Model F XT for the flippers and springs
A custom made Model FSSK PCB
A Model M SSK

Here's mine. Ended up selling it though.

>>61288503
It cost me 300 bucks total, but it also depends on your country

>>61288530
You're forgetting these are REPLICAS of the original 4704 Model F's which are the best built keyboards, period. Using a fucking FN key to hit a function key you'll barely ever need is not the end of the world. You clearly do not belong here if you can't effectively use something without a function row. Retard.

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>>61288502
Are you retarded?

It still doesn't have an F key row, have you ever used a keyboard before? Basically, they have a row of keys for F1 through F12. Take a look at your keyboard now, look just above the number keys and you should see it.

I highlighted it in pic related for you if you're having trouble.

>>61288530
They keyboard is fully custom. You can design the layout to add in function keys if you really need them. I'm just gonna get one to resell it for twice the price I bought it.

>>61285222
I've had a V80 matias for a year and haven't had any problems. >>61288428
Buy a nice exotic wood wrist rest.

>>61288595
Are you incapable of reading? They do have function rows, they are activated through an FN key which I have explained multiple times. Troglodyte.

>>61288535
Is there anywhere I can just buy this outright without having to put it together myself? If not, is it hard? Sounds hard for someone with a small brain like me.

>>61288614
Nope, there was an FSSK group buy but it got shut down and everyone was refunded. The only option right now is to build it yourself.

>>61288572
I can, in fact I'm using a 65% right now and I'm seriously looking at a 40% or so for my next purchase, but if I'm going to be buying that behemoth of a keyboard it has no excuse not to have any function keys. And no, I have no interest in a kishsaver.

>>61288610
I don't want to press a fucking FN key to operate the F row.

>>61288627
If you can live with a 40% then a kishsaver with a space saver case would be just as good, but instead you look at the bulkiest keyboard available in that group buy and complain because it doesn't have a function row... Lmfao these boards were invented before standard layouts were even a thing. You make absolutely no sense, the one board that suits your needs and you ignore it completely just to complain about one that does not suit your needs.
>>61288632
Why? Is your brain not capable of pressing two keys at the same time?

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We /ssk/ now?

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>>61288682
SSK master race

>>61288679
>Why? Is your brain not capable of pressing two keys at the same time?
No, it's not, I have a small brain and I'm limited to only one key press at a time. I even have to use the caps lock key instead of holding shift.

Can you perhaps understand that maybe some people don't feel too hot about throwing $400 at something with such an idiotically retarded design choice as to remove the F keys for absolutely no reason?

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>>61288695
>>61288682
>>61288656
Pls stop.

Where do I buy one, I looked on eBay but the cheapest one is like $250 and it's covered it cum and and dog shit. There's a clean one but it's like $500.

>>61288610
That's not a function row you fucking mongoloid minge cancer

I can take a mechanical numpad and remap it to have 5000 layers letting it do everything a 120% keyboard can, that doesn't make it into a 120% keyboard

>>61288598
I know it's programmable but then you have to sacrifice something else to have F keys on the primary layer.

Like I said, I'm completely fine with small keyboards (60% and less) but I'm not interested in a $350 memeboard behemoth that doesn't even have function keys.

>>61288679
The F62 doesn't fucking fit my needs, because if I want a small keyboard I don't want 2cm bezels all around. There is also a wide selection of excellent small form factor layouts, investing in yet another meme keyboard with standard 60% is not what I'm looking for.

So the F77 almost fits my needs, except for the lack of an f row.

>>61288707
>remove the f keys for absolutely no reason
Yet again you miss the point of the Model F reproduction project completely. They are remakes of the original 4704's, that is all... They are not catering for retards like you that can't hold two keys at the same time. They are made for people that were actually born before the 90's and appreciate a good solid keyboard. If you don't like the fact it doesn't have a function row then that is your problem, they are still the best keyboards ever made in so many peoples eyes. >>61288717
Buy the one covered in shit, clean it, and bolt mod it if needed.

>>61288717
What the heck, price spike the last few months?
Bough mine for like $200 cleaned fully working.

>>61288739
>remakes of the original 4704
I don't care, I don't want one, I want my F keys.

If this faggot has the ability to remake some niche faggot keyboard he can make me a SSK too.

>>61288535
Yeah I have the same problem as >>61288717
How the fuck do you source all that for $300? I would literally paypal you that much plus like a $40 convenience fee if you could send me those

Also, purely hypothetically, how hard would it be to make an SSK with an F77-style solid right hand island (without empty space above the arrow keys) and using model F switches? Would I have to outright make my own case for that?

>>61288758
This

He had to make it all from scratch anyway, how hard would it have been to make a couple adjustments?

>>61288739
The F77 may be the best keyboard in existence but that doesn't mean it can't be improved. Adding an F row would have no drawbacks whatsoever. The only reason he didn't add one is because he catered to nostalgiafags like you, who defend your inferior layout just because "that's what it was like back then".

>>61288717
I got mine on craigslist for 100 bucks, inuding a full size model m

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FRIENDLY REMINDER:

Magicforce 68 ia still available on Massdrop for $40 for three more days. It would be a great starter keyboard for anyone looking to get into them.

You can get either Cherry or Gateron switches, but they charge extra for the Cherries which, in my opinion, are generally worse than Gaterons.

You can also choose your case color and LED color. Also, you can pick to have normal doubleshot ABS keycaps or those really gross typewriter keycaps for an extra $20.

>>61288734
Yes it is a function row you fucking spacker, it's on the second layer of the keyboard. If you're too retarded to press 'FN' then that's your problem. Again, you do not belong here.
>>61288734
The f77 doesn't lack a function row. All you have to do is press FN :)
>>61288758
Then don't buy one you dumbass... No one is forcing you, it's just a shame you miss out on the best keyboard ever made because you're too dumb to figure out the fn key.
>>61288769
F XT's can be found for like $100, check recycle centers if you want to find a better deal but doing it that way will take time. The PCB's have sold for under $100, the hardest thing is finding an SSK for under $100 so you're gonna have to buy one that is in non-working condition and use that. Also I forgot to mention you'll need an Xwhatsit controller too and they're like $50.
It would be impossible to have a solid right hand island because the FSSK PCB is in the layout of an SSK. You would have to design a new PCB, and a new case.
>>61288804
Extremely difficult. Pretty much the only way this was possible is because the owner of the project is one of 3 people in the world that own an original F77. He sent his boards off so they could literally make a direct copy of it. I'm pretty sure the project has been going on for three years so if he was to make massive adjustments like that it'd push the project back even further. Besides, the point of the project in the first place was to allow more people the chance to use boards that are practically extinct, not to update them with function rows.
You need to appreciate just how difficult it is to recreate the feel and sound of a Model F.

>>61288838
How much is the shipping to EU?

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>>61288854
>All you have to do is press FN :)

>>61288838
>typewriter caps
Don't

For someone who's deep in the rabbit hole, they might make sense as a novelty thingy, to stick on a board that generally sits unused just for fun/display/weirding out visitors.
If you're getting a magicforce as your entry point into mechs, you should not even consider those.

>>61288749
So fag in canada bought 100 of them and destroyed them all

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>>61288895
WHAT DO U MEANNN

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>>61288895
Wait what the fuck is that true?

>>61288864
7 usd

>>61288937
does it seems true?

>>61288876
Thanks for the tip.

I'm debating between a Magicforce or a Tada 68, both with Gateron Browns.

I'm using a Logitech k120 right now, so any of them would be an improvement, but the Tada would cost me twice as much.

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greetings fellow redditors

>>61288854
> Yes it is a function row you fucking spacker, it's on the second layer of the keyboard. If you're too retarded to press 'FN' then that's your problem. Again, you do not belong here.
> The f77 doesn't lack a function row. All you have to do is press FN :)
It's not a function row. You can tell yourself whatever you want but it's objectively not. It's a set of keys, whether number keys, alphas, or wherever else you program your f row to be, that can act as function keys - but despite that, it's still a number row, or alpha keys, or whatever.

Re-read my numpad example. Does it have a function row? Does it have alpha keys? Does it have a navigation cluster, or media keys? No, it's a fucking numpad.

> It would be impossible to have a solid right hand island because the FSSK PCB is in the layout of an SSK. You would have to design a new PCB, and a new case.
Darn. Well a custom PCB can't be that hard to get, unless model Fs use some sort of weird type for the capacitive switches?
A good case would be annoying to create though.

> Extremely difficult. Pretty much the only way this was possible is because the owner of the project is one of 3 people in the world that own an original F77. He sent his boards off so they could literally make a direct copy of it. [...]
> You need to appreciate just how difficult it is to recreate the feel and sound of a Model F.
That's a good answer. Now you have properly explained why they don't have a function row, instead of retardedly spouting things like "you're missing the point sweetie :)".
This is good reasoning, and has made me reconsider my choice not to get one. Of course the resale value is a plus, but I wouldn't bother just to resell it, so now I might actually get one and use it.

>>61289009

I'm in the same position, although I have a CM storm quickfire TKL with blacks, but I'm not too certain what other switch I should try.

Gateron brown or blue, im afraid that if I get browns i might not be able to let my fingers rest on the keyboard.

>>61289092
Go to any shitty computer shop and try some, then just buy whatever keyboard has the switches you liked.

MX Blacks are trash.

>>61289009
The standard keycaps are usable bit they're still average quality ABS, so they will feel worse and they will start shining after a while. If you're on a budget that's fine, but if you eventually want to get a proper mech you'll need to upgrade the caps.

The tada, on the other hands, has two advantages - it comes with fantastic PBT caps already, and it's fully programmable. Keep in mind that good-quality BPT caps cost around $40 blank, and for high-quality legends, you're looking at like $80. This is where the value of the tada shines - even with this cheap massdrop, if you then get a good set of printed keycaps it will end up costing you more than just getting the tada.

Are Cherry MX Greens shit or not?

>>61287936
If he made a full size 4704 with a slim bezel I would get one instantly.

>>61289206
Its shit, but its more like oblivion shit and not fallout 4 shit

>>61289206
Bredy gud if that's what you're looking for

About 70% of people will tell you gateron clickies are shit, the rest will say that's a meme and they're just fine.

Of course if you're looking for heavy, clicky switches nothing beats matias/alps or buckling springs, so make sure you actually want greens and not one of those first.

>>61289120

I'm leaning more towards the tada, should I get blue switches now that I'm used to blacks? I don't have any stores I could try switches out, but I'm thinking thet browns might be too light.

>>61289069
No it literally IS a function row, it's just on the second layer. On a fully programmable keyboard any key can be anything.

You could always get PCBway to make you one but you'll have to do all the designs first. Making a case would probably be the easiest part, a nice wooden model f with a standard layout would be awesome.

Well you need to take into consideration that these boards retain full functionality of a 100% board due to their fully programmable controller. It really isn't much of a pain to press fn and a number to initiate the second layer. They literally do have function rows.

And definitely consider picking one up, there's only going to be 2 rounds and I can't see many owners of these keyboards selling them in the future.

>>61289233
kek

>>61289247
>nothing beats matias/alps or buckling springs
I'm about to buy a KBP V80 Matias Clicky, never used them but I've used buckling springs, how do they compare? Do they still snap no matter how slowly you press them?

>>61289291
>implying I've actually used either of those switched and am not just parroting things I've heard others say (mostly in this thread)

Buy it and let me know, it will be very enlightening information.

>>61289312
t-thanks

>>61289269
>On a fully programmable keyboard any key can be anything.
Which is why keys are generally referred to by their primary function. For instance, a "TKL" layout is called "tenkeyless" because it lacks a numpad - even though you could add a layer with a numpad. That doesn't make the keyboard physically have a numpad, and doesn't mean that any programmable TKL is actually fullsize.
You could go even further and say that something like the Plank or Atreus are fullsize because they have number keys, function rows, navigation keys, numpads, and even media keys or whatever, "they're just on other layers".

Don't you agree that's retarded?


>Well you need to take into consideration that these boards retain full functionality of a 100% board due to their fully programmable controller]
That doesn't mean that they ARE 100% boards.
They can send F-key scancodes, that doesn't mean that you will be physically pressing F-keys.

>It really isn't much of a pain to press fn and a number to initiate the second layer.
Never said it was, in fact it's arguably easier than stretching up. My argument was that, from an onlooker's perspective, there's no reason not to add a dedicated F-row, which still has its uses: for instance, if you randomly want to peck an F key while not otherwise typing, "stretching" isn't an issue since your hands aren't positioned on the home row (or anywhere on the keyboard for that matter), so pressing a single key is much easier than having to stretch your hand to hit a modifier+key combo. Nothing you can't live without, but objectively could be improved.

You explanation put into perspective just why that would have been extremely complicated, which made me realise that it's not just laziness or nostalgia, but an actual practical concern. Meaning the keyboards really are the best they can realistically be (since improving them would not have been realistically feasible).

This entire argument is autistic but I hope you see my point of view better now.

>>61285593
It is. But its also a shit ton more expensive.

>>61289269
>You could always get PCBway to make you one but you'll have to do all the designs first.
Not hard if you have the proper knowledge. I don't, but electrical engineers exist, and in fact our resident seiden tech tripfag designed his own PCB I believe.
Not saying it would definitely be an afternoon project, but it's probably very feasible.

I took a glance at pcbway and very, very roughly, having no real idea of what such a PCB would need/be like, it seems it would be on the order of $100-$200.

>wooden case
That does sound awesome. No idea how much that would cost though, and I am absolutely incapable of crafting anything like that myself.

Now if I'm not wrong, the only other thing you'd need are the actual mechanisms you could get from a model F, which you could get non-functional for like another $100-$200, right?

So we're looking at like $200-$500 for what would be, in my opinion, the perfect keyboard in existence. Not a very bad deal to be honest, especially if it could end up being cheaper than these F77s.

Fuck mechanical keyboards. Membrane for days.

>>61289420
Yes it does make it have a numpad, it's just on the second layer of keys... How is that so hard for you to understand? Sure it might not physically have the right side number pad block but it's still physically there on different keys.

The Model F77 does have a function row, it does have a number pad, it does have arrow keys. The legends on the keycaps literally show you these functions. They're offering double printed number keys with the function key numbers on for idiots that don't know what a second layer is.

I don't know why you care so much about this, but it's a fact that the F77 does have a function row, you just have to press the function key... If it didn't have a function row there would be no way to use it. Even the HHKB has a function row. That is why layers exist.

I never stated they were 100%, I said they retain the functionality of 100% boards while staying true to their original designs by IBM.

All keys send scan codes, fully programmable keys will send whichever ones you want therefore there is no such thing as 'physically pressing the f keys' you are pressing a key that you have assigned yourself. I hope that isn't too much for you to get your head around, but these keyboards DO have function rows.

There is a couple of perfectly reasonable reasons why they do not have a physical dedicated row. It is to stay true to the original design which was the point of the project in the first place. There are other keyboards out there such as the HHKB and the Pokers that don't have physical function rows either and no one complains, but suddenly you feel the need to bitch when a model f remake does the same thing as hhkb's. The function layer IS there as a second layer, creating another row of keys just because people refuse to use FN would've taken more work and iruin the point of the project.
I do see your point of view, and honestly I would've welcomed a dedicated physical function row but there really isnt much point because of layers

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About to buy one of these:

https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=1325
https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=1942
https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=1943

Anyone know why the all black one says it is 'PS/2 and USB', but the others don't? Is it just a fuckup in the listing do you think?

I don't really care about the colour as I'm going to be replacing the caps with blanks ones anyway.

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>>61289544
This. Where are my model m bros at?

>>61289601
They're all out buying remakes of model Fs

>>61289524
The model F uses these weird capacitive switches so the PCB will be very expensive

>>61289615
Oh. Could you give a rough ballpark on "very expensive"?

>>61289524
Seiden tech has said some dumb shit, so I wouldn't trust him with PCB designs, I'd hand that shit over to Deskthority, their first FSSK PCB's were brilliant

Yep you'd need the flippers and the springs but also an xwhatsit controller (same controller in the Model F remakes. All in all if you manage to source a cheap SSK (because you still need the barrel plates and the back metal panel) and an F XT for $200 you should be able to get a working PCB and a controller for about $150 which will work out about the same price as the Model F's. You'd need to 'tune it' though. You have to bolt it together in such a way that everything feels the way it should - took me like 40 minutes of tinkering to make my FSSK feel smooth.

Does the Model M count as a "memchanical" or mechanical-feel keyboard since it's just a membrane with a flipper pushing it?

>>61289641
To me it is. You have an actual switch mechanism as opposed to just a cheap rubber dome. But it really depends on how you define a mechanical keyboard.

>>61289626
For a one off, about 200 bucks. Keep in mind this price is from the guy who made those model M capacitive PCBs. During the group buy they were less then 100

>>61289552
>Yes it does make it have a numpad
Oh ok, so you're retarded. Good to know the Plank is a fullsize keyboard.

>If it didn't have a function row there would be no way to use it. Even the HHKB has a function row.
I think at this point we're arguing about semantics, but basically everyone uses "has X key(s)" to mean "has physical X keys". I think there's a very good reason for this: if we stick to your definition, then a programmable keyboard literally "has" every key possible. This means that, if a keyboard is programmable, discussion whether it "has" or "doesn't have" keys has no meaning.
Since a lot of keyboards are programmable, it's better to pick the definition which can still be applied to them - namely, talking about physical keys. Then, you can safely say, e.g., "the Plank has no numpad, number row or function row", and you just succinctly described its layout.
Again, to bring back my standalone programmable numpad example, no sane person will agree to the statements "this numpad has F-keys", "this numpad has alpha keys", etc.
Despite programmable keys being able to send any scancode, they are still arranged in ways which make their primary function clear - you still have your staggered letter keys, your modifiers around those, four arrow keys, number and F keys in rows, square numpads, etc. So, yes, physical keys do matter, even if they're programmable.
In view of this, the F77 does NOT have an F-row.

And if you still disagree: the F77 does not have a physical F-row. Happy now?

>There are other keyboards out there such as the HHKB and the Pokers that don't have physical function rows either and no one complains [..]
Because I (and the other guy who was complaining) expect different things from an HHKB and a Model F. The HHKB is made to be tiny. The Model F isn't. If there was a near-fullsize HHKB that lacked a function row, then that would also be a valid complaint for it. Nor am I complaining that the F62 lacks an F-row.

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>>61289626
The model F PCB is 50% copper, which is why they're so expensive. The model F in general was almost made entirely of metal except for the keycaps and half the PCB. That is why they cost almost $1000 in todays money back then.

Is the alumemium case worth it for tada68? Or is it just chinks wanting to rob me?

>>61289839
Do you really need it? Its just an aesthetic thing

>>61289637
I wouldn't trust him either, I just took it to show that it's not rocket science.

>you'd need the flippers and the springs
Which would come from a used Model F, right? Along with the barrel plates and the back metal panel.

Also don't they have foam or something?

>tune it
Non-deterministic analog tuning, fuck. Especially with no other working model Fs to serve as reference.

The real problem is probably the impossibility of medium-sized group buys, since at that point sourcing used F parts will be completely impractical - so you'd need to shoot for something along the lines of what this remake guy is doing, which is to say a large-scale group buy with full production runs of the parts. Or just make a one-off for yourself and deal with the lack of economy of scale.

>>61289839
Do you need it? Probably not. One of the appeals of the tada is its low price point while still having gat switches and pbt cherry profile dyesub (I think) caps. That's not to say it completely defeats the purpose - the poker boards are quite popular, and one reason they're pretty darn expensive is the metal case.

That being said, since you're considering a tada and not a poker, you probably don't need to go all-out on the memes, so you'll be just fine with the plastic one. It's not like it's shit and will break immediately, or it's too light and will slide around - I have it, and it's really well-made, quality, tough plastic that looks really durable. I have no complaints.

>>61289776
Lmao wtf... Once again, I never stated it is a full size keyboard I said it retained the functionality of one. Fucking idiot.

A keyboard can have full functionality and be easy to use at 60% minimum I'd say, that way you can fit every other key on the second layer and still have enough keys left over for media buttons e.g. HHKB.

This entire argument is stupid and you're getting very worked up over it and you're refusing to listen to what I'm saying so allow me to repeat myself.

The Model F 77 retains full functionality of a 100% keyboard. It does have a function row and the right size cluster is configurable in such a way that it has two layers. A standard TKL layer and a numpad layer which are switchable through FN or numlock. yes it does physically lack the function layer but that's not what I'm arguing, anyone can see it doesn't have that row of keys. The point is because it's fully programmable you can have that row anywhere you want on the second layer.

If you don't want to deal with rows, don't buy the keyboards. It's really as simple as that. Joe will not change his designs just because you complain about the lack of something that is actually there already on layer 2.

Honestly losing the physical F row is not a big deal because you literally already have it on the number row. E.g. Number 1 because Function key 1 on layer 2. It just makes sense. And again, if you don't like it, don't buy it. But it definitely does have the function row built in. >>61289776
The Model F's were designed for different things entirely. 4704 series were banking terminals. The kishsaver has always been a 60% boards and the F77 has always been a 60% board with a right side block to do whatever you want with. That is just what the keyboards were designed for, and that isn't changing in the replicas.

>>61289901

That's what I was wondering, guess I'll skip it

>>61289291
Yes, the click actuates very near the top.

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How can I make my Unicomp louder?

>>61289839
The weight is sign of reliability

>>61285106
problem with memeforce is its too damn loud. that upstroke...

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>>61289935
Did you get it with the clasic case? The old model ms had a beep speak speaker, and with a mod you can put one back in and make it as loud as the speaker allows.

>>61289907
Yep, from a used model f you'd need the springs, flippers, and barrels. I don't think the plates are at all compatible with the SSK case. If you're going to be making your own case you could probably reuse some of the metal plates in a model f but at that point it's not really an FSSK anymore, it's basically a custom Model F PC with re-used F components.
If you want an actual FSSK you'd need to reuse the internals of the SSK and replace the flippers and pcb's with model f's counterparts.

Model F's and Model M's have internal foams (Model M's being a lot thinner) you can always just buy some third party foam and cut it to size like people do when they are refurbishing Model F's.
By tuning it I meant you'd have to tighten the plates together so everything feels smooth and then tune it in the controller so you have the voltage threshold correct, and then you have to properly ground the thing.

Honestly I wouldn't recommend attempting this due to the fact you don't seem to want to have an actual FSSK, it sounds more like you're wanting a custom model f which would take a shit load of research. Model F's are a bitch to put together as it is, customizing everything, even the plates that hold it together would be a nightmare. That's why an FSSK would be your best option - all the plates are already there at your disposal.

>>61290013
No, I got the Spacesaver.

I could drill some holes, or is it a case of the component not fitting?

>>61289915
>I never stated it is a full size keyboard I said it retained the functionality of one. Fucking idiot.
If it's not a full size keyboard then it lacks keys. But you just stated that it has all the keys (since you can program it to literally any key). So which keys is it lacking? If the answer is "none", then it is fullsize. If the answer isn't none, then you admit that you're wrong.

>This entire argument is stupid
Agree 100%

>you're refusing to listen to what I'm saying
Y-you too

>The Model F 77 retains full functionality of a 100% keyboard.
Literally never said it didn't

>yes it does physically lack the function layer
So you admit it doesn't have a function layer

>but that's not what I'm arguing
But it is what I'm arguing.

>anyone can see it doesn't have that row of keys
Which makes it OK to not have it?
>hey look I made a 10-key kb, you can use 40 layers to type anything!
>of course it doesn't actually have any normal keys, like letter keys or number keys or navigation keys, anyone can see that! Why are you complaining about it?
Note, I already agreed that I can see the reasons why it's lacking that, no need to argue that again.

>The point is because it's fully programmable you can have that row anywhere you want on the second layer.
You can program that row to be anywhere you want, but, say, if you program it to be on the number row, so that when you press e.g. Fn+3 it sends F3, well, re-read what you just read: you put it on the number row. Even though you can use it to input F keys, it's still a number row.

>That is just what the keyboards were designed for, and that isn't changing in the replicas.
You keep repeating this "replica" argument, but my point is that that's not an argument. If you take something shitty and, instead of improving it, just make a replica of it, and people criticise it, they will be right to do so.
Now the F77 isn't shitty, but it CAN be improved.

>>61290030
>at that point it's not really an FSSK anymore, it's basically a custom Model F PC with re-used F components.
I mean sure, if it gives a better keyboard, or if it's cheaper without sacrificing quality.

>buy some third party foam and cut it to size
Sounds good

>a custom model f which would take a shit load of research
Fuck, really? Why is it so complicated? Could you enlighten me on these plates please (what they are, and why they'd be a nightmare to customise)?
It sounds like if there'd be a way to use normal plates everything would be well - would adding a used model M SSK into the equation, ripping out its plates, and using them with my custom SSK-shaped case work?

>>61290074
Seriously... You're making yourself look retarded. It lacks physical keys but it has every single one of those on a second layer therefore it lacks nothing and retains the functionality of a 100% keyboard.

I have stated multiple times it physically lacks a function layer because the keys aren't there. Everyone realizes that, but the function layer does exist in the second layer on the keyboard. If you don't want to accept that or can't understand it then this isn't the right thread, or maybe even the right board for you.

Your argument about a 10 key keyboard with 40 layers was already addressed.
>A keyboard can have full functionality and be easy to use at 60% minimum
That way you can have just two layers that cover every single key giving you the functionality of a 100% keyboard.

Yes it is on the number row physically but you've switches layers so they are now function keys, and not number keys. Stop being a fucking idiot.

>if you take something shitty
No, he took the best keyboards ever made that are so incredibly rare only three are known to exist and he made copies of it so we can all enjoy them. The only people criticizing it are those that can't get their head around layers.

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>>61288854
>you do not belong here
>fn layer = function row

>>61290045
You can, though it would be a lot of work

>>61290150
Thing is you wouldn't know if it is a better keyboard or whether it sacrifices quality because it would be experimental. Even when making an FSSK it takes almost an hour of tinkering just to make it feel good.

If you have a model m or model f, open it up and look at the internals. The internal plates are all flexed to have different sized rows of keys while keeping the keycaps physically the same size. You would have to make a PCB that has this curvature, you would have to get a piece of metal and heat it so you can bend it to the right shape of the board, then you'd have to find a way to secure the flippers in place. If you reuse model m ssk internals and put F flippers and springs inside it, you've already eliminated most of your problems as Model M internals already have that curve.

>>61290175
>the function layer does exist in the second layer on the keyboard
Everyone realises that too, moron. You can stop repeating it.

>Your argument about a 10 key keyboard with 40 layers was already addressed.
When/where?

>No, he took the best keyboards ever made
Nice reading comprehension. Read again:
>the F77 isn't shitty, but it CAN be improved.
I knew you'd get caught up on this though.

>so incredibly rare only three are known to exist
Also that's not an argument. My turd this morning was so rare it was unique in the entire world. I'm not saying the F77s are bad, just your argument is.

>The only people criticizing it are those that can't get their head around layers.
I'm using a 65% tada68 right now. I programmed it with three different layers.
And yes, my tada does lack a function row. I can access F-keys in several different ways on my other layers, but it still doesn't have a dedicated function row.

And one last thing:
>If it's not a full size keyboard then it lacks keys. But you just stated that it has all the keys (since you can program it to literally any key). So which keys is it lacking? If the answer is "none", then it is fullsize. If the answer isn't none, then you admit that you're wrong.
Answer the question, instead of ignoring it.

>>61290249
Oh, ok. So it's basically a question of sticking to the SSK layout to be able to reuse the model m's internals. Darn.

>>61290228
Drilling some holes would be a lot of work? Or it would be work to make it fit?

>>61286038
cherry profile with dsa spacebar

>>61290254
You clearly don't since you're having a major fit over an F77 not having a physical row of keys which are already present in a second layer.

>A keyboard can have full functionality and be easy to use at 60% minimum I'd say, that way you can fit every other key on the second layer and still have enough keys left over for media buttons e.g. HHKB.
See this post >>61289915
Funny how you comment on my ability to read when you clearly just tried to argue over something I had already addressed.

The F77 can't be improved. It is what it is... Making changes to the layout was not the point of the project, and 'improving it' would be subjective. Fact is, it still has all the functionality you could ever want.

You're seriously stupid... It DOES have a function row on layer two. Does it physically have the keys? No. But it doesn't need them to exist elsewhere in the board.

I already did answer your question, it doesn't lack any keys thanks to layers. Just because it doesn't lack keys does not make it a 100%. You're too fucking stupid for this board Lol, I'm ending this debate, come back in a couple of years when you're not so clueless. Oh and read up on keyboard layers you sperg. I have a 60% with no missing keys. Get your head around it or leave.

>>61288535
>Ended up selling it though.
why, what keyboard are you using instead

>>61290395
I use boards on rotation, my main ones are:
Model M Industrial SSK
Model F 4704-107 key
HHKB Pro 2 'stormtrooper' (black on white)
Noppoo EC 108 pro with 55g domes

>>61290360
Can someone else look at this guy and tell me which one of us is retarded?

I'd also like to ask how:
>A keyboard can have full functionality and be easy to use at 60% minimum I'd say, that way you can fit every other key on the second layer and still have enough keys left over for media buttons e.g. HHKB.
addresses the argument. Am I actually retarded? I didn't know.

Also worth pointing out:
>Oh and read up on keyboard layers you sperg.
When I just stated I'm using a 65% myself. Literally what?

>The F77 can't be improved
I would very much like to know the drawbacks of having a dedicated F row. Like, if you could magically make an F77 with an F row appear, at no cost, why would you choose not to do that?
>space
It's already fuckhuge, if you're purchasing an F77 space isn't your concern. The compact bezel isn't relevant because "the F77 can't be improved" and therefore the original huge bezel is also fine.
>???
Yeah, keyboards drop keys for space, and I can't think of any other reason you wouldn't have some particular key.

>Fact is, it still has all the functionality you could ever want.
Now that is objectively false, because I want the functionality to press e.g. F5 with just my left hand without stretching it really uncomfortably.

>Just because it doesn't lack keys does not make it a 100%.
Oookay, so what's the definition of a 100% board, and a less-than-100% board according to you, if they both have all the same keys?

>>61290289
Fitting it, then runing all the wires to it would be a problem since it uses a different PCB

>>61290478
Honestly anon, you are retarded for caring so much and wasting this amount of time on a pointless debate which I stopped reading two posts in. Go outside or something.

gateron blue or brown?

coming from mx black here

>>61290536
Well yes but I already knew that.

>>61290422
nice

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>>61290478
whoever is saying that a physical function row is the same as just having it in a fn layer

but don't get me wrong, you are both autistic

>>61290537
blue if you don't need to be quiet

>>61290564
also i would like to inform everyone I typed that (and this) w.o looking at my keyboard in like a minute.

pls gz.

Anon who was trying to pick a spacebar colour yesterday. I finally started ordering (yes, I'm lazy and slow) and pimpmykeyboard doesn't have free shipping, so it'll cost me $15 to get my $5 keycap.

Are there any better options for me in the UK? Trying to get a DSA spacebar.

>>61290478
Well you are complaining about a keyboard that lacks physical keys but makes up for it with layers, something which the majority of TKL or lower keyboards do. If you don't like it, then no one is forcing you to get one.

You're the one complaining about having to use layers, if you're comfortable using them with your tada68 you'll be fine with an F77. Get over the fact it lacks physical keys like most boards do nowadays.

Adding a function row wouldn't be an improvement as that's entirely subjective. What is necessary on a board for you isn't necessary for someone else. If you want to cry about it go bitch to the creator on Deskthority and stop spamming this thread with your autistic bullshit.

That is objectively true... Because the function is still there. If you're too lazy to stretch your fingers or use two hands then that's not really an issue with the board.

You're a TADA user so you should know you are able to actuate basically any key on a 100% board. Just because they lack physical keys, does not mean they lack them functions.

>>61290604
>in the UK
No. Try China but I think they only have Cherry/OEM single spacebars.

Fuck shipping costs.

I can get a used model F XT for £80 (about $100) with shipping, worth it? No idea if it's tested or working, I could ask the seller.

>>61290665
Definitely worth it as long as you can convert it to work with a modern PC. Speak to Orihalcon on Deskthority or Ebay - he makes USB soarers converters.

>>61290665
I just bought the one you're talking about :^)

>>61290857
REKT

>>61286112
Deskthority m8

does the tada68 come with backlighting?

>>61291056
yes a plain white backlight

Probably a stupid question but do you guys know any tenkeyless membrane keyboards?

Jesus christ how autistic can this general get. First it was spacebars, then it was keyboard rows, then it was keycap profiles, and now its keyboard layers.
Keep clacking /mkg/ keep on clacking.

>>61291093
Laptop keyboards. I think some external ones too, like you can buy a standalone thinkpad keyboard which will have the clit mouse but no numpad iirc.

>>61291093
Those old IBM ones

>>61291105
it's literally the worst lol, I tend to stick to deskthority.

>>61291093
Realforce 87U

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Hello world.

>>61291105
Shut the fuck up faggot.

If you seriously use a keyboard without an F row you deserve to die in your sleep tonight.

>>61291157
>$200
This is what I was trying to avoid.

>>61291164
what is this?

>>61291157
They're not membrane, they're capacitive.

>>61291093
Fucking this.

I just want something small and cheap, I'm fine with membrane.

>>61291093
microsoft sculpt

>>61288152
>good place to order SA Grade keycaps if you live in UK?
>in UK

haha, ha ha ha, ha HA HAH, HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

>>61288152
chyna

>>61291193
>what is this?
It's my favorite keyboard that I use 95% of the time. It's a novatouch TKL. I have Leopold PBT keycaps on it at the moment. I've been using mech keyboards for 10 years or so and that's what I prefer now.

I'm looking to buy a set of DSA caps to try them out.

>>61291220
get a magicforce you cheap fuck

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>>61287632
Anyone?

>>61291164
Nice.

>>61291220
when you can get a chinese tkl for $30 nowadays, why not?

>>61287632
>cherry blues
Stopped reading.

>>61291169
but it's genuinely easier for me to press fn+number than a dedicated f row

even on keyboards with the f row touching the numrow, pressing it requires me to move my entire hand updwards to reach, while i can hit both fn and any of the numrow just by extending my finger

>>61291347
>but it's genuinely easier for me to press fn+number than a dedicated f row
Ok.

>>61291347
bullshit

>About to order a Magicforce 68 from massdrop
>Every piece of hardware I own is black
>White stills tempting me

Anyway, I'm pretty much set for this keyboard, it's 42€ for me, buying it from Amazon would be 60€ and a Tada is 90€.

>>61291401
>it's 42€ for me
including shipping? no way. and keycaps aren't cheap unless you want to use the garbage bin keycaps it comes with

>>61291443
ok i looked at the pricing and it defaults to the ridiculous typewriter keycaps and you get a $20 discount if you pick the garbage keycaps

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>>61289839
I got the blue case and absolutely love it. It's heavy as fuck, but looks really nice. You can't really go portable with it, but the bonus is that it will NEVER slide anywhere ever.

I got mine on Taobao for $60 way back, you should only get it if you want to go maximum end game since the original case is actually well constructed. Also, if you ever want to grab a number pad or something, there's apparently one guy in China that makes these things so all the colors are uniform, so you don't have to worry about matching.

Does anyone else have difficult deciding on one single switch to use exclusively?
For example I keep a magicforce with blacks, heavy and linear, and a noppoo with blues, light and tactile, on my desk and switch between them constantly.
I'm on the magicforce right now and i love the way it feels with it's nice pbt caps and the weight behind the keys. Then I'll swap over to the blues and love how light they feel, the nice pom under my fingers, etc.
I'm trying to figure out a solution that just lets me keep one board on my desk and feel satisfied.
Perhaps something thats heavy like blacks but tactile like blues with nice PBT in a compact 75% or TKL layout.
Keyboards are such a fucking rabbit hole.

>>61291462
Yeah, happened to me at first.

Also, when you say garbage, how garbage are we talking?

Keep in mind I've used nothing but 10 bucks keyboards all my life.

>>61291202
Nah its a membrane. Just because it uses a capacitive spring it doesn't change the fact that it needs a membrane to house it. There's nothing wrong with that since the model M is also a membrane keyboard

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>>61291315
Why?

File: K550-1-e1444438423951.png (902KB, 1004x1004px) Image search: [Google]

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Is Yama 550 any good?

>>61291520
i mean, it's possible to use them, but it will be so much nicer if you get thick pbt keycaps in cherry profile

for example
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/NPKC-Blank-side-printed-Cherry-Profile-Thick-PBT-Keycap-ANSI-ISO-layout-For-Cherry-MX-Switches/32807123075.html

>>61291565
>Yama 550
>$90 for no-name switches

Absolutely not.

>>61291646
how about quality?

>>61291185
Saved

>>61291489
That's fucking comfy

>>61291489

Wouldn't it make more sense to just get a Pok3r from amazon considering warranties and everything.

>>61288152
I like it, looks like a strange 3d rendering in the thumbnail.

>>61288717
Industrial SSK is gonna be $1000 minimum, which is why owners love flexing it

>>61290711
Can you spoonfeed me? It looks like a standard PS/2 but then I'm not exactly an expert by any stretch
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/263078652092

>>61291565
i think this would be better

https://www.banggood.com/Ajazz-AK60-110-Keys-Side-Craved-NKRO-Blue-Switch-RGB-Backlight-Mechanical-Gaming-Keyboard-p-1116001.html

>>61292003
wait i'm not sure it has cherry mx switches. at least the blue switches might not be cherry mx

http://www.gearbest.com/keyboards/pp_624879.html

>>61288152
That's completely disgusting. Go fuck yourself.

>>61286445
>use an IBM IMS database at work
>log in via 3270 emulator
>need to hit shift+Fkey to hit F13-24
>I'd probably get fired for bringing a keyboard that actually has those keys

>>61286499
this

f row keys are underrated and so are left hand side keys

>>61291566
Well; I guess I can try the default keys first and if I don't like them order the ones you linked, still cheaper than the Tada, and I would also like a blank keyboard.

Thanks.

>>61292107
>Using a 3270 emulator
>Not using a 3277 terminal via 3274 controller the size of a washing machine.

You could drive them all mad from the beamspring noise alone.

>>61286499
The F row does affect ergonomics, the number of rows on the keyboard affect how far away from the user you can put it. On my current keyboard, having an F row pushes the other 5 rows closer to me, so I can't position my arms properly compared to having a keyboard without it.

>>61291943
The Tada68 already has a warranty if you get it from kbd or originative, plus the metal case is better built

>>61290665
>>61290711
>>61291997
Alternatively there's this for £30: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/272434516554

Can someone tell me where I can easily by adapters if needed? And which one of the two (F for £80, or M for £30) is better value?

>>61292283

But wouldn't you have to send it back to china, insane shipping costs and long wait?

>>61292212
Dear god I wish. Maybe one day. The company is stupid enough that if I got into a position of power I could demand "greater reliability" from "original equipment" and get away with it.

>their idea of security is hiding everything through insecure proxies and unencrypted VPNs and putting warnings up that read "UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS WILL RESULT IN PROSECUTION" like that ever stopped anyone
>our trainer gave us Excel spreadsheets and instructed us to fill them out with all of the passwords we use to log into everything
>still have Office 2007 installed on every computer, with all the vulnerabilities that entails
ISPs are a fucking mess.

>>61292368
nah the sellers take care of it. Same thing when you buy a topre keyboard. Even though they ship it back to Japan you pay 5-10 bucks shipping then wait a couple weeks for them to get back to you

>>61291943
you don't really need a warranty for a mechanical keyboard, if it arrives in one piece you're good to go, if it breaks it was probably your fault and a warranty wouldn't cover it anyway and you can just repair it yourself

>>61292334
The model F is much better built then the M It cost $350 back when it came out), and has NKRO. The problem however is the unusual layout of the keyboard. The model M is more standard, and since its a membrane keyboard it only has 2KRO. You need a $40 adapter for both.

>>61292824
Fug. That's £60 for the keyboard, £20 for shipping, possibly another £20 in taxes if I'm unlucky, and like £30 for an adapter

Are you sure it's not PS/2? It looks like PS/2. What is it then?

>>61292882
Terminal keyboards only came in din or rj45. you need an adapter either way.

>>61292882
It might be cheaper to get that smae exact keyboard here
http://www.elecshopper.com/ibm-1395660-terminal-keyboard-122-keys.html

i cant decide between mx cherry reds and browns, please redpill me on either

So lads:
We will see chink capacigive buckling springs in the near future?

>>61293059
No, reds are too light and browns aren't tactile enough. Get blacks or clears.

>>61293059
Are you extremely precise in your typing?
If not, don't buy reds. you'll make an absurd amount of typos since they're so light.

>>61293067
Will they have an F-row

>>61293098
had blacks and i absolutely hated them
>>61293112
yeah thats my biggest concern, i tend to make some typos already and with reds it may be even more frustrating. i would go with blues but they are too loud ._.

Asked on /wdg/ and got no answer, maybe some of you work on the field.

About to order a Magicforce, will I miss the F row for web dev?

>>61293067
they're already here :^)

>>61293175
Scroll up and you'll see the answer

>>61293175
While you could always scroll up and read like 30 character-limit posts of autism about it, the short answer is no, you'll quickly get used to pressing a modifier.

I only miss the F row when I randomly need to hit a shortcut, e.g. I've got one hand on my mouse and the other picking my nose or something while browsing the internet, then I need to refresh the page.

>>61293181
Well, that doesnt cost a small fortune

>>61283641
They did everything wrong, they should've put the same wireless tech into it that they did with the G900, instead it's wired only which is a heap of shit for me, I just have to deal with this fuckawful reception that my Anne Pro has from any more than 5 feet.

I've had a Ducky One with Blues for a about two years own ad I've been fairly satisfied. Typing on it is pure sex and it feels very therapeutic. However, people have been complaining about the noise especially when gaming.
I'm in the market for a 60% or 80% mech keyboard for primarily gaymen, does anyone have my good suggestions?

What's the difference between Razer Green switches and Cherry MX Green switches?

>>61293273
>60% for gaming
You're gonna regret that choice, boy.

>Model F XTs are everywhere
>The ATs which have an actually sane layout are impossible to find
How would I go about getting one, and how much can I expect to pay for it?

>>61293302
I mostly okay FPSs and I keep hitting my keyboard with my mouse, what's wrong with 60%?

>>61293316
Oh yeah, and in reference to the autism itt, is the only difference between the F77 ("the best keyboard ever") and the model F AT the existence of a F-island on the left? Or are the differences in construction/quality/propertiesetc.

>>61293296
Razer Green switches have Blue-weight springs and are made by Greetech who suck.

>>61293335
I guess If you only play FPS then that's fine.
Mobas and rts games typically need F keys, but if you don't play those then you should be fine.
Just get the Anne Pro, not expensive and looks nice.

>>61293296
they feel nothing a like

>>61293273
>>61293335
There's nothing wrong with 60% for gaming, don't listen to autists. The only exception is the very few games which REQUIRE a numpad (since you said you wanted 60% or 80% I assume you don't need a numpad). Make sure you get a programmable board though so you can remap things if you need.

>>61293059
bump

>>61293142
matias quiet click if you don't mind many keycap options.

>>61293059
I'm kinesis advantage 4 lyfe so i'm stick with reds or browns as my only choices, and honestly I think they're equally awful.

Blues are dreamy, though.

>>61293658
You want gateron reds and browns.

>>61293059
gateron brown

>>61293296
razer green is roughly equivalent to cherry mx blue. cherry mx green is heaver

>>61293340
4704's are built entirely out of metal, the feel of the switches themselves are much more tactile. On my 4704 I literally feel the spring vibrate under my fingers which doesnt happen on my f122 or f84

>>61293134
They already do.

>>61286469
Go put in the work yourself then you fucking ungrateful cunt.

Any sugerences on how to search for Model M terminal keyboards on eBay?
Parts numbers, nicknames, etc. Anything is good.

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Posting the greatest keyboard ever made
>b-but where is my f row
Learn how to use layers, cunts. They're acceptable on your tada memes, so they're acceptable on these boards too.

>>61294194
>tada
>meme
>not realizing you purchased the biggest meme of all mechanical keyboards

>>61294128
The fat terminal model Fs with the huge 6 inch bezel is just as well built. Its just that the 4704 are rarer.

>>61294233
I purchased the greatest keyboard ever made, one that still works after about 35 years. One that is fully programmable, has a solid metal case with perfect powdercoating, can be configured in HHKB style layouts, ANSI, or ISO by just re-arranging flippers, a board that can take any model m keycaps or custom ones produced by unicomp. Stick with your pleb tier shit kiddo.

>>61294250
No they're not, the top shell is made from brittle plastic. The 4704's are entirely metal. My F107 weighs nearly 5KG.

>>61294261
>fully programmable
So is the tada
>solid metal case
You can get one for the tada as well
>perfect powdercoating
Not an argument
>can be configured in HHKB layout
I thought you were trying to prove it's NOT a meme?
>ANSI or ISO just by re-arranging flippers
Aren't there differences in the PCB? If not, then that's a valid point.
>that can take any model M keycaps or custom ones by unicomp
More like a board limited to cumstained model M keycaps or ones bought exclusively from unicomp, while the tada can take any cherry keycap in a dozen different profiles, at least three different types of plastics, dozens or hundreds of different colourways, etc.

Don't get me wrong, it's a great board, but your arguments are shit.

>>61294273
Alright, good to know

>>61294128
> the feel of the switches themselves are much more tactile
I thought they used literally the exact same switches?

>>61283641
to the person that told me about the ducky one tkl, thanks this thing feels really nice and smooth. 89$ was definitely worth it, glad I didn't fall for the rgb meme

Corsair Strafe or CMStorm QuickFire Ultimate guys?

>>61294402
It sucks that they raised the prices by 10 bucks, cause I bought one last year for $79. I still think its worth it even with the price hike.

>>61294387
The metal case for the tada is aluminium and although it's a step up from all the plastic shit, it's still prone to being dinted easily and it's hardly a 'case' in the first place, more like an aluminium base. The metal used on 4704's is powdercoated die cast zinc and judging by my original 4704 from 30 years ago, I'd say they were pretty much indestructible.

Perfect powdercoating is definitely an argument. Have you never owned a poker before? It's like their metal cases were spray painted or some shit. At least with powdercoated cases you know they will last.

HHKB / UNIX layout isn't a meme

The PCB's are exactly the same, you put stabilizer inserts into the keys you don't need, or a spring and flipper into it if you do need it allowing you to choose either ISO or ANSI. The same is true for Model M's.

These 'cumstained' model m keycaps are better quality than the majority of cherry keycaps out there, and unicomp offer everything you could possibly want unless you want to fall for some DSA or SA memes.

My arguments are shit? You just wrote off something I said by claiming it was a meme. Lmfao.
>>61294398
They do use the same switches, but the internals are different which effects the feel of the switch.

>>61290604
probably not, but you could suggest to kbdfans and ymdkey to sell loose PBT DSA spacebars, because the same way you want to do it, people might want cherry profile keysets but with a DSA profile spacebar, as an alternative to flipping the spacebar

>>61294496
all this cope. are model F users the saddest of all?

>>61294855
If I could get an AT layout with 4704 build quality, I would be the happiest of all.

>>61294515
That's actually a good idea. I sent kbdfans an email, and they seem to be a small and niche enough shop that it might just result in something.

Someone should make a new thread and link it here before we die. We're on page 8 already and I'm tired of having to go back to the catalog and search for the next one, which seems to be necessary more often than not here for some reason.

Not me though because I'm lazy

>>61294855
They're the happiest of all because they found end game.

>>61294928
Make it yourself fag boi

>>61294163
>model m
I mean Model F.
Please respond ;_;

Fuck off and die you cunt
>>61295256
>>61295256
>>61295256

>>61294496
>The metal case for the tada is aluminium
>it's still prone to being dinted easily and it's hardly a 'case' in the first place, more like an aluminium base'

I don't care about the rest of your snobby elitist post, I just came here to tell you that you have absolutely zero idea what you're talking about. This aluminum Tada case is a fucking tank that weighs 5 pounds and can probably stop a bullet. This thing will outlast me and cannot "dint" [sic] in any capacity. So shut up about shit you clearly have no clue about.