systemd grants root privileges to user accounts that start with

>>61184526
still ranting against systemd? move with your times, gramp.

Assassination when, I wonder.

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Poettering did nothing wrong

>How does he keep getting away with it?
Because major distros already use systemd.
Also dumb people think that all linux distros having the same init system some how decreases fragmentation even though init system should be just service start, service stop and service restart.

Post rare lennarts itt

>>61184526
then dont create invalid users you faggot

>>61184612
>it's not broken! You are just using it wrong!

>>61184526
Systemd is a very active project and vulnerabilities like this is unavoidable. They'll patch it and release it soon

>>61184612
http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/009695399/basedefs/xbd_chap03.html#tag_03_276

>3.276 Portable Filename Character Set
>The set of characters from which portable filenames are constructed.
>A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z
>a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r s t u v w x y z
>0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 . _ -

>3.426 User Name
>A string that is used to identify a user; see also User Database. To be portable across systems conforming to IEEE Std 1003.1-2001, the value is composed of characters from the portable filename character set. The hyphen should not be used as the first character of a portable user name.

It is a valid user according to the POSIX standard. useradd lets you add it, too.

>>61184642
But they have closed the issue and said they won't fix it.

>>61184660
>said they won't fix it.
?

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>>61184686

>>61184526
B-but I thought systemd was perfect, not a backdoor, had no bugs ever and was fixing all the problems with other init systems???
STOP LYING YOU FUDDING OP WHY DO YOU HATE PROGRESS????

Microsoft just migrated our shit from our infrastructure to theirs (using winbind to get AD on linux servers). All the usernames are numbers by default. Sounds fun.

This madman needs to be stopped
http://systemd-free.org/

>>61184701
>40 (!) thumbs down
MY FUCKING SIDES

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Give me one good reason for still using a distro with systemd in 2017.
Install GuixSD. Install Void. Install Gentoo. Remove systemd. Purge cancerd.

>>61184701
Hmm. This does look unimpressive

>>61184612
The fact that you don't agree with attackers is no reason not to defend against them.

>>61184729
>guixsd
no packages and many breakage. I like the idea and would love to be able to use it, though.
>void
no packages and slight breakage. almost a viable option.
>gentoo
unironically the best linux distro in 2017. either the package compiles or it's broken, you never get to try to use a package that both compiles and is broken. updating and dependency updating work significantly better than in any other distro since you can recompile dependents against the new dependencies instead of having to upgrades, too.
this property also means you can keep a stable system with only the minimal required unstable programs, something no other os managed to pull off yet.
finally, its repos are huge, only rivaled by arch.
however, compiling can get really annoying sometimes and there are no good comprehensive binhosts. additionally, they have nowhere near enough maintainers so many packages aren't maintained correctly, such as old-stable version of software being marked as unstable and requiring the -9999 branch to get the current unstable, not live/devel/nightly, version. Other examples, the texlive maintainers are clinically retarded and remove important texlive tools because "I don't use it so nobody does!" and there's literally no way to get such tools back.

>>61184721
he saved gnu+linux for desktop

systemd is the new Internet Explorer. Widely used at one point of time, integrated in applications, and insecure.

Supporting GNOME and KDE on FreeBSD in 2017 is like supporting IE optimized webpages on Mozilla and Opera in 2002.

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systemd is worse than ISIS.

>>61184526
>we'll hence enforce something that resembles more the universally accepted set, rather than accept the most liberal set possible.
>letters and text
>the most liberal possible username characters
How is the retard in charge of anything?

you guys are so fucking retarded. systemd is great. if it was this bad, not everyone would have suddenly adopted it.

>>61184820
You're the retard. It's been widely adopted not because it's good, but because corporate money and influence (Red Hat) is backing it.

>>61184820
Right, it does seem suspicious doesn't it.

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>>61184820
Biting it; Most of the people believe there is an old man with grey beard in the sky watching you masturbate.

thank god we turned over init to the pulseaudio guy.

what could even possibly go wrong desu

>>61184820
Erry tiem.
To this day it still bothers me to no end that not a single adopter, be it an OS maintainers or a developer, dared to give a single hint of an explanation as to why they went systemd that was even remotely realistic. The best we got was KDE's "we supported 10 systems, now we support 2 (the ones that work with systemd) which means less lines of code, therefore systemd is great because dropping support for 8 systems totally couldn't' have been done without systemd for the exact same benefits".

>>61184701
Some of the responses are great https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/6237

>>61184729
Wonder how hard it would be to make a minimal alternate implementation of systemd (I mean just the init component, not all that other shit). Maybe something that can parse systemd service files and translate them to runit service scripts. Aside from the weird baked-in udev integration, I bet 90%+ of services don't actually need most of systemd's weird obscure options.

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>>61184831
>but because corporate money and influence (Red Hat) is backing it.
yeah red hat influenced archlinux, mageia, suse, ubuntu, ...

>>61184526
>How does he keep getting away with it?
He works for Red Hat a wholly subsidiary company of the USA military establishment.

>>61184849
Systemd wasn't adopted because it's good, it was adopted because it's slightly better than all the alternatives. And the main way in which it's better is that it satisfies the GNOME -> logind -> systemd dependency chain (thanks, Red Hat)

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>PID 1 handles network components

>>61184849
The faster boot was pitched as a big plus. The built in container support is what got it most of its support though.

>>61184844
... That's not funny!

>>61184849

Arch's init script maintainer gave a write up over why they decided to switch.

>>61184882
Red Hat is developing systemd, and Red Hat-paid developers are some of the main contributors to GNOME and other projects who now depend on systemd. Ubuntu and many other distributions that use those projects and thus had to adopt systemd. It also benefitted them because it makes the maintainers' work a bit easier, but clearly there are many people who thought the overall balance was overwhelmingly bad (see the Debian vote).

>>61184916
>The faster boot was pitched as a big plus
Which isn't a good enough reason. Every distro would use runit if that was the case. Also openRC is often just as fast as systemd.

>>61184939
yeah it's the big linux __conspiracy__, we know.

>>61184916
Container support didn't exist until very long after it was adopted everywhere, though, and boot time are actually false (they compare serial sysvinit vs parallel systemd, never parallel sysvinit nor serial systemd, and systemd's parallelism actually has proven to be a massive source of bugs, while other systems don't have that issue).

>>61184946
>Also openRC is often just as fast as systemd.
not gpl licensed.

>>61184950
What conspiracy? It's just Red Hat pushing their interests, which is to be expected. But don't pretend systemd was adopted because of technical merits.

>>61184968
You're right, it's BSD which is even better.

>>61184928
And that explanation was 100% bullshit and might as well sum up to "we chose it because we were paid to choose it". There wasn't even a single hint of reality in the writeup. And in this case it's worse than in all other cases except debian's because it flies straight in the face of arch philosophy.

File: eJwVzEEOhCAMAMC_8ABaixDwNwQJutEtofVk_Lu71znMba5xmMVsql0WgHWXwmO1ojxyq7Yxt6PmvostfEJWzWU761cFCCl6Tyk4jDT5iBEozeTc30KYMM0e4Rd1--nNPC-eAiGM.jpg (8KB, 196x250px)

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>poettering added the not-a-bug label

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every.
single.
time.

how is this not a meme yet? I knew it was going to be closed, not a bug before I even clicked the link that's all he does "ur shit is broke fgt" "stfu *blocks*"

>>61184906
>it's slightly better than all the alternatives.
How come nobody is able to provide even one (1) actual argument to support this, then? "i-if you don't like s-systemd you're.... you're a bigot who hate women!!!1" is not an argument, no matter how much lennart wishes it was.

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Official systemd flag

>>61184974
yeah dude, redhat is controlling every gnu+linux distribution. they are so powerful.

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Weasel does it again...

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>>61185023
>Sigh,

>>61185012
> ignoring the evidence

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>>61184866
>>61184990
It is comforting to see people ignoring the not-a-bug and trying to pinpoint the bug and how to fix it.
Poettering has zero credibility even among the systemd contributors.

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>>61184981
Dunno, these sound like some reasonable technical concerns to me

>>61184701
>not a bug
So is this guy the Stephen Molyneux of /g?

>>61184993
>How come nobody is able to provide even one (1) actual argument to support this
Try reading the other half of the post before you fire off an angry shitpost in reply

>>61185084
Paid shill detected. Even a child would have no problem understanding why every single word in this entire dissertation is complete and utter bullshit. Any kind of googling at all will further demonstrate this.

>>61185097
>every distro uses gnome
lol

>>61185086
Point 2 is news to me.
Never hear it before.
Me thinks he pulled it out of his ass.

>>61185084
Those are reasonable excuses. The mistake is thinking that the unproven systemd would live up to its promise and not looking at the downsides.

>>61185112
>Me thinks he pulled it out of his ass.
He struggles with admitting he dun niggered, saying sorry and just fixing the problem

>>61184526
today on "what happens when you program everything in low-level terms in languages like c instead of using higher level concepts"

that the textual content of a username can introduce bugs of any kind is proof of seriously shitty programming and suggests all sorts of nasty mixing of data with logic where it shoild be kept separate. why do people keep doing this to themselves?

>>61185146
yes if only our operating system's init were written in java enterprise edition. thanks for your valuable contribution to the thread.

>>61185146
You can program in c and still validate your input. Isn't qmail written in c? The problem isn't the technology.

>>61185086
>>61185112
As suspected it is bollock.

>User=, Group=

>Set the UNIX user or group that the processes are executed as, respectively. Takes a single user or group name, or numeric ID as argument. For system services (services run by the system service manager, i.e. managed by PID 1) and for user services of the root user (services managed by root's instance of systemd --user), the default is "root", but User= may be used to specify a different user. For user services of any other user, switching user identity is not permitted, hence the only valid setting is the same user the user's service manager is running as. If no group is set, the default group of the user is used. This setting does not affect commands whose command line is prefixed with "+".

>>61185191
This. It doesn't matter if you program in Rust, Haskell, Python, or plain old C, no language can save you from these sorts of logic errors.

>>61185092
it's Stefan not Stephen my friend

What the fuck happened?
Back in 2005 (that's 12 years ago!), we had 2 great DEs: KDE 3.5 and gnome 2, both extremely stable, fast, light and featureful.
Now we have the choice between the buggiest, slowest, least featured piece of garbage to come out in the past 12 years, or nothing. How the fuck did that happen?
Then there's the whole systemd fiasco and every maintainer and developer showing their true colors.
Then there's the lgbtqbbqlmao+ bullcrap. Yes, let's spend 90% of the budget trying to attract the 0.000000001% (unsuccessfully, too) instead of actually improving the product. Also let's shoot ourselves in the foot until we are literally not allowed to do any software development because we don't have enough incompetent special snowflakes on staff.
Meanwhile have the BSDs improved? Not even a bit. Wangblows? A billion times worse than ever before. Other OSs? There's redox or whatever, and fuck CIA, but they're just starting development and will no doubt be just as shit as everything else.
And let's not forget 4chan. Whereas it used to be a great place to mess around as well as discuss serious topics with people who actually cared about their hobbies, now it's purely about consumerism. Absolutely abhorrent. And not a single alternative imageboard worth a damn appeared, ever. They either devolve to the same or worse as modern 4chan or they get murdered by reddit-tier admins.
How the fuck is the entire world so impossibly shit now? What the FUCK happened?

>>61185236
He's not making any claim about the current behavior. He's saying that it's reasonable to put additional restrictions on system user names (can't start with digits, for example), even if you allow the full flexibility of POSIX for normal users.

>>61185146
It has nothing to do with C, in fact, 70 replies in and nobody has corrected the OP. It doesn't "grant root privileges to user accounts that start with a number", that's wrong.

What happens is that unit files ignore invalid options (in this case User=) and since the default user is root the unit is executed as root but you have to be root to create the unit anyway, it is a bug and it should be fixed but it's not what you faggots think it is. It really is amazing how little /g/ knows about anything.

>>61185248
Technology became adopted by normies and now caters to them.

>>61185165
>>61185191
if you understood grammar, you'd see that i meant writing in high level languages is optional, using high level abstractions was the essence of my point

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>we'll hence enforce something that resembles more the universally accepted set, rather than accept the most liberal set possible.

Embrace Extend Extinguish

>>61185283
Please explain what kind of abstraction you would use to prevent this problem.

>>61185267
He claims the User= setting is only for "system users" and not "regular users" which is complete bollocks and no such thing is mentioned as you can see on the man pages.

>>61185284
i like this picture. where does it come from? what's the name of that cake again? it has to do with that blue cat, no? doremon or something like that.

>>61184526
Some ubuntu guys discovered this, patched it, then released the news that they had.
That's right. It's nothing.

>>61185301
not making any sort of logic depend on the characters in a username string would be a start. it's a username, not a bitmasked variable holding flags, how did anyone fuck up badly enough to make the chars of a fucking username determine behavior?

>>61184820
it was the Jews. They made them do it

>>61185316
https://whatanime.ga/?auto&url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.4cdn.org%2Fg%2F1499002220121.jpg

>>61185348
because it takes integer uid or a username, which are probably treated differently

>>61185304
That kind of is what it's for, though. The purpose of User= is to let you run a daemon under a dedicated, unprivileged user account. It would be very unusual to run a system-level daemon under the account of a real (human) user.

>>61185358
ok... thanks... actually wanted to talk a little... (╯︵╰ )

>>61185348
What are you on about? The only "behavior" affected by the user field is which user it runs the daemon as.

>>61185248
Reddit.

No-one cares about OSs because the web is where it is at. But no-one takes the web seriously because of the irresponsible memers at Reddit user cute kittens as vectors to infiltrate people's attention spans.

>>61185377
well theres the bad design then: parsing a single piece of data as 1 of 2 possible things based on its apparent format, with the sets of possible values partially overlapping and the format check not being wholistic. uid and username should not be interchangeably used in a single parameter unless uids are impossible to ever be acquired as usernames, which they are not because theyre text strings with a subset of the same characters

>>61185386
I agree but nevertheless it ain't explicitly prohibited either nor does it specify anywhere such user must be a system user. As always with anything Poettering everything is half ass baked. Open to interpretation "Only by him of course" and nonsensical.

>>61185377
Pretty fucking trivial and simple fix for anyone who's not clinically retarded (i.e. not lennart): quotes around the value means username, no quotes means uid. Or, you know, how about making uids and usernames work the same instead of being so different?

>>61185274
If the admin writes a service file with three expectation of it running as a user but it ends up running as root all kind of shit could happen depending on what it executes. You should assume that you program is going to be used by malicious incompetents, not just sane reasonable omniscient admins.

>>61185248
DEs are literally pointless, who cares

>>61185274
Wrong, usernames that start with numbers are valid. At least get the facts right before niggering on about everyone else being wrong.

>>61185429
Or you can just say if you try to parse it as an it and fail, print an error and bail instead of moving on with clearly unexpected privileges. Unexpected, that is, because someone put a fucking User directive there.

>>61185396
the devil is in the details of how that parameter is parsed. a string parameter being 1 of 2 possible types of data based on nothing but loosely validatable content like which characters are used is a rookie mistake. this is javascript-level data fuckery with variables possibly being of any type in the world until you read them, like some sort of schrodinger's variable. Is this param a username or uid? who knows? we would if we didnt stuff them into a single variable, which not even people working in js are stupid enough to do.

>>61185494
Why don't you spend a bit of the time you take to tweak your wm to try to reduce your weight from your current 1000 lbs?

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>>61185393
Sorry. Here have a hug.

>>61185461
this guy gets it and probably has an actual job in IT

Then provide counter arguments to his point. I'm not a systemd fan, but I'm not dense enough to call him a shill when there are clearly some benefits to systemd. Those benefits made maintainers jobs easier which is why they switched.

Sheesh, jobless children on /g/ are so petulant

>>61185537
Congrats, you're more dense than densium.

>>61185510
i have done zero tweaking to my wm,

fuck who cares what your screen looks like lmao, as long as it allows you to move shit around and doesn't kill you with bloat it's fine

just install xfce and leave it at default if you want something simple

>>61185496
Wrong. They are not valid in systemd unit files.

In OP's link:
>Yes, as you found out "0day" is not a valid username.
>Note that not permitting numeric first characters is done on purpose: to avoid ambiguities between numeric UID and textual user names.

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>>61185562
>DEs are literally pointless
>hurr durr just install XFCE
Lurk at least 2 years before posting.

>>61185565
But usernames come from the underlying system and this behavior is documented OR ENFORCED. If it was enforced they would print an error and give up. But instead they... run as root. I understand that is the default but if someone is feeding you ill formed instructions then they are clearly expecting a certain behavior and you should inform them of the error. Especially if you are fucking PID 1.

>>61185565
congrats, your chromosome test result is back.
>above average.

>>61185619
*Not documented
Or expected

>>61185594
xfce has a simple window manager that you can tweak graphically. no learning curve and does a job

Please could you all stop dissing systemd? you are not helping GNU Linux

>>61185619
I agree with you? I'm not defending systemd.

>>61185625
What I said
>unit files ignore invalid options (in this case User=)

How is this wrong? I think you think I said you can't have usernames that start with a number, that is not what I said, if that were the case this bug would not exist.

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>>61184526
DELETE THIS

>>61185681
(((You)))

>>61185690
>valid means invalid because I say so
Hello lennart.

>>61185711
What the fuck are you talking about retard?

>>61185727
Whatever you say lennart.

>>61185770
>I was just pretending to be retarded

>>61185783
>my name is lennart poettering suck my cock choke on it

>So, yeah, I don't think there's anything to fix in systemd here. I understand this is annoying, but still: the username is clearly not valid.

-Lennart Poeterring

OP post is fake news.

>>61186031
The username is completely valid. See >>61184644.

>>61186075
linux doesn't care about posix

>>61186031
Hello lennart

>>61186094
top fucking kek, lennart just made a rant about this

https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/6259#issuecomment-312494264

>>61186112
I dont know why g hates him so much. I mean read that comment. This guy is down to earth and wants results instead of philosophical bullshit.

>>61186031
>sysadmin didn't know that the username it's invalid because it has always worked before
>sysadmin creates service file for daemon that runs user input
> uses User directive to reduce daemon privileges
>PID sees that the service file is "syntactically invalid"
> no error is printed
> proceeds to run it as root
I get that falling back to default behavior is easy but in this case it is exactly the wrong behavior. Not only did you know that the file is invalid (so why run it?) But the user directive was explicitly passed, so presumably someone doesn't want it to run as root, even if they fucked up the name.

>>61186112
he's right. and poettering is more relevant to linux than posix is.

>>61186112
that just sums up exactly why I don't like systemd

>Note that not permitting numeric first characters is done on purpose: to avoid ambiguities between numeric UID and textual user names
String comparisons? Why is linux so shit?

>>61184791
This anon knows their shit
t. Gentoo user

>>61186112
Sad but not surprising to see more cluelessness out of him. Debian, for one, explicitly makes the username policy both configurable and overridable by the system administrator:
>NAME_REGEX: User and group names are checked against this regular expression. If the name doesn't match this regexp, user and group creation in adduser is refused unless --force-badname is set. With --force-badname set, only weak checks are performed. The default is the most conservative ^[a-z][-a-z0-9]*$.

>>61186147
*doesn't know, it's invalid
*PID 1
Fuck you phone

>>61185248
Unfortunate combination of Facebook getting popular and the financial crisis.

>>61186173
Yes, but the _standard_ behaviour is well defined and is the same for all users. The only clueless one here is you.

>>61186173
debian is now powered by systemd, they will comply.

>>61186182
>Yes, but the _standard_ behaviour is well defined and is the same for all users
Yes, it is well defined. It's defined by POSIX, which says usernames may contain any combination of alphabetic and numeric characters, as long as they don't start with a hyphen.

>>61186134
>philosophical bullshit
He doesn't value interoperability, the thing that made *nix useful in the first place.
>locked and limited conversation to collaborators 35 minutes ago
lol what a down to earth guy

>>61186195
systemd and linux doesn't care about posix. fuck posix.

>>61186226
fuck you

>>61186226
t. literal inbred

STOP ATTACKING HIM OVER STUPID SHIT

NAME one SCENARIO WHERE YOU WOULD WANT TO CREATE A USERNAME THEY STARTS WITH A NUMBER

>>61186195
No one cares about posix, not even the kernel (Linux itself). Why should systemd care about it at all?

>>61184572
Because systemd is seen as a fix to linux (and traditional unix)'s restrictive permission system by basically making the init system which has root permissions handle the graphical environment to provide functionality closer to windows.

In other words systemd is made to bypass linux security measures because users don't like them because they get in the way.

I think the permission tree is outdated for consumers but systemd isn't the right solution, a remodelling of the permission system as every process being equal and being able to conditionally request elevated privilege would be better. Yes, I'm saying Linux needs a windows-like permission system. That's what systemd horribly tries to accomplish.

>>61186247
Lennart Poettering's nickname is 0pointer.

>>61186262
Holy fuck please stop posting.

>>61186247
my username is 1337

>>61186276
he's right, let him talk.

Friendly reminder
http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/the-biggest-myths.html

>>61186247
Afaik arabs use numbers as a replacement for some letters so it can be just some arab dude name as username. But it's not lije it sonehow relevant.

>>61186247
A username that matches a program's name for isolation. The program starts with a number (e.g.: 0ad).

>>61186247
you want your folder on top of a ls or dir list for extra e-penor points

>>61186262
If you want something more fine-grained than the standard unix permission system (or POSIX ACLs), write a daemon that manages access to the specific resource you care about, either by proxying requests or through file-descriptor passing. There's no need to reinvent half of userspace.

>>61186296
What a gruesome joke

>>61186262
Programs can already conditionally request elevated privilege without the need for systemd.

This is fun. we should troll Poettering more.

>it's another fake outrage
As always, Poettering did explain WHY he does not consider that an issue. But people bring in the most irrelevant shit to make him seem wrong. So we care about POSIX now, huh?

>>61186400
Nice shilling.

>>61186403

>>61186400
His explanation is wrong though. He says the username is invalid, but according to who? POSIX allows it. GNU tools allow it. Most modern Linux distros allow it. By all appearances, the name is invalid according to "muh feels" and literally nothing else.

>>61186531
Fuck off bigot.

>>61186531
According to systemd's rules. His software, his rules. Accept it or leave linux.

>>61185386
Understandable, then what if some prick makes a good floss web api server and call it 404api? Wouldn't we call the system user for that service 404api? It's compliant with POSIX and EL7 will let us so why the fuck not?

>>61186400
>>61186418
>>61186567
>>61186570
Hello poettering

>>61185461
Breaking change for all the monkeys that already have written their configs.

tfw init systems will soon be responsible for sandboxing and managing the logins :^)

tfw init systems will soon be responsible for basic window manager tasks

tfw the init systems will take over the bootloader and grub for legacy

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itt: retrogrades being butthurt

you guys are the scum of the linux scene.

>>61186629
What do you mean, "will"? Have you not heard of systemd-nspawn (containers), logind, and systemd-boot?

this is 2 bugs

why did nobody create a separate issue for the second bug?

>>61186247
You want to attack someone's system by exploiting the fact that using a username starting with a number can get user-level scripts elevated to root privileges. You know, the exact reason that people want this patched

>>61186769
they did.
>>61186112

>>61186400
>run useradd
>get root
>get in to the kernel
>steal your shit and fill your hdd with CP
BUUUT POTTERING SAID ITS NOT A BUG
F-FUCK POSIX

>>61186531
>He says the username is invalid, but according to who?
Well, since no one had defind what is wrong and what is right for GNU/Linux before based Poettering finally did it.

>>61186112
Based. POSIX and the Unix philosophy belong in the trash.

>>61186909
To add.
SystemD literally makes x86 ring protection obsolete.
If you run SystemD right now, you're practically running a fancy version of TempleOS with no HolyC.
I hope that poeterring or however you spell that does not fix that bug so the entire ecosystem running systemD becomes a malware ridden mess. Thats the only way to grab attention to the issue.

>>61186909
Don't you need root to add users?

>>61186998
yes there is no privesc vuln here. it's just stupid bug, not a security problem.

>>61187078
>it's just stupid bug
No, it's not a bug. You can tell because it's tagged "not-a-bug". Kindly disregard the fact that Lennart plans to change the handling of the User option so this doesn't happen any more.

>>61187118
lennart acts exactly like /g/ people do, why do we hate him again?

okay this cunt literally has to be a NSA employee

>>61187230
What are you talking about? He's literally single handedly makes decisions that the whole community could not make before. Not his faults he's both oblivious and ballsy.

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This is beyond silly now, why is debian/ubanto/arch not doing anything about this? OPENRC WORKS FFS

>>61187230
Red Hat is basically NSA anyway.

>>61186965
Templed init when?

>>61186094
That is a lie.
Linus goes to great lengths to follow POSIX.
GNU also follows POSIX, with some very rare anomalies when POSIX is clearly brain damaged, but always offers a way to restore POSIX compliance (by setting the POSIXLY_CORRECT environment variable, for example).
Also the fact that the very name POSIX was suggested by rms.

You Lennart apologists are truly twisted beings.

>>61187266
>idiot inserting crippling vulnerabilities into literally all linux distros is actually doing a good job

>>61187278
red hat isn't "basically" NSA, it IS NSA!

>>61187291
>inserting crippling vulnerabilities
Except this "vulnerability" should not even exist in the first place. Community could not decide naming principles do Poettering did.

I didn't even know you could have numbers in your name

>>61187278
that must explain why their software isn't essentially shit

>>61187316
POSIX has already spoken on this. linus should just add in a feature to the kernel to raise a LOT of warnings whenever systemd is used. this shit has gone too far.

>>61187344
>POSIX has already spoken on this
That means nothing.

>>61185084
Arch developers writing shitty init files makes systemd good?

We all know Arch linux security is a fucking joke and the people who maintain that hobbyist piece of crap should not be trusted for secure computing.

>>61187344
The distros will just patch that out if the kernel because they can't have enough of poetteringware.

>>61187344
the kernel doesn't care about the userspace. leave linus alone.

>>61186247
Just figured out one scenario. My username to my webhotel provider's server starts with a number. I've had it for ten years and I have a shell access to it, and it runs debian. Pretty funny, I could get root access to a server which handles tens if not hundreds of webhotel customers and probably among them all their emails and shit.

>>61187394
>Pretty funny, I could get root access
Confirmed for not having read/understood the actual bug report

>>61187267
they all voluntarily switched over to systemd

>>61187375
>standards mean nothing

>>61187382
then the lead devs of those distros should be fucking sterilized.

>>61187391
does it really matter if the userspace is deliberately intruding into the kernel?

>>61187394
>debian

sorry, that's irrelevant - systemd only cares about MAJOR distributions

>>61187473
>>standards mean nothing
Well, yes.
Just because some standart exist does not mean that it's applicable for every single thing.

>>61187496
The rest of the system more or less follows POSIX, why can't you Lennart?

Yet another step closer to the death of Linux

>>61187531
>more or less
lol ok

>>61187496
>I will only apply the parts that are convenient for me!
What is even the point of following standards then?

>>61184526
he's a fag, right? who's his boyfriend? some other Linux fanboi?

>>61187473
>does it really matter if the userspace is deliberately intruding into the kernel?
can't be. the kernel provides system calls and virtual files (eg: /proc/), what the user will do with them is none of the concern of the kernel.

>>61187563
Sorry, but who does follow POSIX in this case?

>>61187531
he can do what he fucking wants, he'd fucking LENNART MOTHERFUCKING POETTERING

You are not fit to lick his boots.

Fucking neckbeard scum.

What's the problem of /g/ with LennartWare? The guy started has an amateur dev on the kernel and got hired by redhat, he should inspire you. Stop the hate.

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this is fucking bullshit.

>>61187610
see here
>>61187286
>inb4 but they don't actually follow it to the letter
at least they are trying

>>61187672
the problem is that he's bringing in private company philosophy into an open source project.

>>61187681
Because they don't want to follow it to the letter.

>>61187688
No one forbids that.

>>61187678
>Tested on Debian with shadow-utils 4.4 and adduser 3.115, only adduser complains, useradd doesn't.
use useradd, and then do as the bug report says to create a service for that user.

I feel like I should really do the right thing and start using a non-systemd distro.

but arch is so fucking comfy and just works (despite the memes about X breaking, never happened to me).

>>61187688
Commie alert.

>>61187732
>>61187748
>well nobody says it CAN'T be done so let's do it despite the consequences
i look forward to when systemd goes closed source, fellow NSA officials.

>>61187688
Hello there! You seem to have used the term "open source".
The term "open source" was created by a group of people that did not want to be associated with the free software movement. When I say "free" software (which is one of the alternatives preferable to "open source"). It's not about price; in that case I would say "gratis", or "free as in free beer". It's about "freedom"! This is what the free software movement is fighting for.
So what is "free" software? Free software is any software that guarantees the user the four essential software freedoms:
> 0. Run the program as you wish.
> 1. Study the source code and change it so it does what you wish.
> 2. Redistribute exact copies of the program.
> 3. Distribute your modified version of the program.
Some people decided that they wanted to restrict the user; but being able to study and modify the "open source" code is not enough! This is directly hurting the cause of the free software movement because it takes away the sociological "freedom" aspect of free software and turns it into a technological one.
So for those reasons I ask that in the future you use the terms "free", "free/libre" or, if necessary "FLOSS" (short for "free/libre and open source"), though the latter should still be avoided.

>>61187775
>i look forward to when systemd goes closed source
So people will just use forks.

>>61187732
That won't stop anyone form hating him and anyone from redhat for their microsoft dev mentality.

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>>61187780
sorry RMS.

>>61187802
>implying all distro head devs won't be bought out by then

>>61187720
>don't want
Like the other guy said it only happens rarely and there is always a way to enable proper behavior.

>>61187825
>implying distros won't be forked too

>>61187864
>implying copyleft and permissive licenses won't be illegal by then

>>61187864
>implying the CIA won't start a top secret direct action division to kill all distros
welcome to minority report!

>muh rejection of systemd
>muh unix philosophy
whatever you do, you will be assimilated. SUBMIT NOW!

>>61187913
>>61187916
THANKS TRUMP

>>61187230
NSA doesn't employ people like him. People who are abroad. He is CIA. Like many people from popular IT companies.

>>61187945
desu senpai trump is probably the only person who could possibly be convinced to prevent this from happening.

>>61186400
>So we care about POSIX now, huh?
Nope. The issue here is, people who disagree with the adoption of systemd, are holding systemd up against their own philosophies of what an init system should be. They are two different approaches and really have very little in common. Right or wrong, Poettering never claimed to be adhering to the POSIX philosophy.

>>61188215
Apparently, he never claimed that his software worked either

>>61188294
True. I'm not going to pretend to understand the thought process behind systemd's adoption, ultimately, if people wanna be mad, blame your distro. Lennart is a twat for sure, but "our people" put him in his current position.

>literal bug in the way systemd handles usernames
>B-BUT THAT'S NOT A VALID USERNAME
>people point out that it is indeed, to POSIX, GNU and Linux standards, an actual username
>NO! YOU'RE WRONG! WE DON'T FOLLOW POSIX! WE FOLLOW OUR OWN RULES!!!! WAAAAHHH MOMMY MOMMY PEOPLE DON'T LIKE SYSTEMD
>and once again a bug in every Linux distro using systemd goes unfixed because Poettering wants it that way

>>61188215
>POSIX philosophy.
You are confusing two things.
POSIX is a standard set of features and behavior designed to establish a common base for operating systems.
What you probably meant is Unix philosophy, which is a certain way of writing programs.

>>61188482
>people point out that it is indeed, to POSIX, GNU and Linux standards, an actual username
So you do name three different conventions and claim that it's a standart.

>>61188397
People generally disagree that it's the distro maintainer's own fault from how the intrusion happened. For small distros with few maintainers, they have no choice but to follow upstream which means adopting systemd. For bigger distros, they all appear to have many redhat employees among them, hence why they are forced to adopt systemd as well. Gentoo devs are already spread super-thin and they still take the effort to maintain forks of software that got gobbled up by systemd. It's not that everyone else should be blamed, it's that they should be praised.

>>61188507
Well which standard or convention does SystemD follow? I'm curious because I'm pretty sure whichever one it is the username "0day" is still valid. Unless SystemD follows SytemD conventions, in which case Poettering just gets to make shit up as he goes along I guess.

>>61184526
These are just problems with C.
Use modern C++.

>>61188507
>name 3 standards
>and claim it's a standard
Why yes lennart, that's exactly what everyone in the world is doing right now. And what's your excuse? Note that your own documentation doesn't describe any difference in your handling of usernames.

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>>61188507
>So you do name three different conventions and claim that it's a standart.
Oh no, it's retarded!

>>61188535
>valid
Not equal to standart.

>>61188544
No, use rust.

>>61188568
H A S K E L L
S T R O N K

>>61184612
Why? I like having root access.

>>61188546
>>61188563
>if standarts have one thing that work similar then the whole code follows all of those standarts at once

>>61187945
>THANKS OBAMA
ftfy

>>61184701
>it's not a bug, it's a feature!
This guy is clearly 100% security illiterate.

>>61188605
Only one of them (POSIX) is a standard you retard.
Not that GNU software or Linux kernel deviate from it in any meaningful way.

>>61188633
>Only one of them (POSIX) is a standard you retard.
>POSIX, GNU and Linux standards
Yeah ok.

>>61188649
You are free to believe whatever you want, just don't expect others to play along.

>>61188667
What does that even mean

>>61188529
>It's not that everyone else should be blamed, it's that they should be praised.
I really wasn't trying to make a case for or against systemd. Just stating that Poettering didn't just force himself upon Linux. The community could have just as easily told him to fuck off.

>>61188633
>GNU and Linux don't deviate from POSIX in any meaningful way
You clearly have not even the remotest idea of what you're talking about.

>>61184526
what's wrong with SystemD?

>>61188680
I hope you have actual arguments because so far you're just shitposting really badly.

>>61188592
>GC
>pseudo-pure-functional
>>>/trash/
idris could be viable maybe someday if they don't fuck it up too bad.

>>61188748
>I hope you have actual arguments because so far you're just shitposting really badly.
Irony.

i hope lennart chokes on a bag of dicks

>>61188777
Checked.

>>61188673
Lennart isn't an outsider, he's a redhat employee. It's not "lennart forcing himself upon linux", it's redhat. And redhat have been doing that forever, and since they have their dirty claws everywhere, by hook or by crook, they invariably took over. It's not like there was any option for most groups, as I tried to describe above.

>>61188762
So I take it you're just talk.

>>61188795
Just write "I win."

>>61188748
I'm not here to teach you for free or to convince you of anything. If anything, I'd rather you keep believing that shit unironically so you embarrass yourself further in life (which I doubt you really do, you must be just trolling).

I'm just putting this out there for the newbies and the unwary, lest they fall for your horseshit (or trolling).

>>61186134
>instead of philosophical bullshit

someone post the pic of lennart complaining about how linux is too white and something needs to be done about it

>>61185086
Point 2 is concerning. Reeks of either a lack of planning or, more likely, a willingness to make another sweeping change to systemd rather than fess up to a fuckup.

>>61188535
>Poettering just gets to make shit up as he goes along I guess.
Sort of. At least, that's how it would appear to the community. His responses to criticism also sort of infer this. However, I highly doubt this is the situation. I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that their are some clearly defined goals and people working behind the scenes reviewing and directing the project. Lennart, I think, needs to stop speaking publicly and have a representative speak for him. His personality is often times a bigger issue than the bugs that are presented to him.

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>>61188823

>>61188848
https://plus.google.com/+LennartPoetteringTheOneAndOnly/posts/J2TZrTvu7vd

>The open source community is quite a sick place to be in
>The Linux community is dominated by western, white, straight, males in their 30s and 40s these days

Also,
>Recently, people started collecting Bitcoins to hire a hitman for me
kek

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>>61185248
>Back in 2005 (that's 12 years ago!), we had 2 great DEs: KDE 3.5 and gnome 2, both extremely stable, fast, light and featureful.

/g/ likes to overstate how dire the situation regarding DEs is. Mate, Xfce, Lxqt, and KDE Plasma are all decent. It's mostly just Gnome 3 and its inbred descendants that are a mess.

>>61189024
You forgot Lumina.

>>61188930
He's right though, POSIX has always been a guideline but never a rule. To make it a hard rule would be a senseless limitation to a system that is literally always in motion. Possibly painting yourself into a corner for no real reason. It's sensible in a way, if you exercise restraint.

>>61189040
Lumina is so damn great.

Thank you trueos for showing me.

>>61189003
>Recently, people started collecting Bitcoins to hire a hitman for me

How can I donate?

>>61189049

Lennart plz go

>>61189024
Literally only mate is decent and it's still a buggy piece of shit. All the others are impossibly bad, lxqt most of all and that's really saying something since you actually included modern KDE in there.

>>61184526
>systemd-resolved is the nonstandard, vulnerable-by-design DNS resolver that they're trying to push
Thank God this isn't on Ubuntu LTS.

>>61189138
yet

>>61189024
>KDE Plasma
Come on, man, you can't be serious. Gnome and KDE are equal opposites, Gnome is run by control freaks with blinders, and KDE is a clusterfuck with no focus and lot's of bugs as a result. I use them both, but I'm not going to lie, they are far from perfect.

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>>61189138
It's the default resolver on 16.10 and 17.04, so it'll likely be on 18.04 LTS. There is no escape. Submit.

>>61184526
I used to defend systemd but this is a whole new level

>>61189079
I've never defended Lennart, only the truth. Lies and misinformation only distract from the necessary focus required to get issues resolved.

>>61184820
Systemd was adopted out of pure convenience, e.g. by the Arch devs, not because of any benefits to the user. There are actually no benefits to the end user, only those to the lazy dev.
See:
>https://lists.archlinux.org/pipermail/arch-general/2015-July/039443.html

>>61189087
I'll bite, what's wrong with modern KDE?

>>61189176
I didn't say perfect, I said decent. For what it's worth, I use Lxqt these days, which isn't perfect either but I like it.

Also, Gnome 2 wasn't exactly bug-free itself. Mate provided some badly needed updates.

>>61189203
I want to rape Madoka.

>>61185084
>reasonable
https://lists.archlinux.org/pipermail/arch-general/2015-July/039443.html
>It has never been a minimalist distribution. Splitting packages is rare compared to other distributions, and dependencies aren't made optional whenever possible.
>It has also never been a distribution offering much user freedom / choice compared to Gentoo and even Debian.
>Arch is the *opposite* of a user-centric freedom. The opinion of users has no weight here. Only the developers have an opinion, and there aren't voting systems as there are in Debian.
>Arch has *never* been minimalist... a Linux kernel with every module available and every feature enabled at least when there's no non-bloat related cost, feature-packed/complex GNU tools, nearly all optional features enabled across all the packages, etc.
>What hypocrisy? When have you seen the developers state that they care about user freedom, or that the distribution is based on minimalism?
>Community memes don't define the distribution, technical choices by the developers do. It's clearly not based on what you say it is, and *never* has been. It has always used significantly more disk space and a measurable amount of additional memory than Debian and especially Gentoo as a consequence of keeping things simple (again, from a development perspective).

>>61189169
>>61189203
I am familiar enough with Linux now that by the time 16.04 expires in a couple years, I will never need to use systemdick again.

>>61189371
That's what you think, but you'll have to pretty much use gentoo or void to escape.

OK

>>61189024
Unity is great. Still supported for another 4 years IIRC.

>>61184612
IT'S NOT A BUG IT'S A FEATURE!!!!111!!!!1
t. Lennart

>>61184526
>usernames that start with a number
you mean it parses User=0day as User=0
the systemd-resolved bug is ridiculous though

>>61184526
>obstinate retard
>german
like pottery

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>>61189629
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lennart_Poettering
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kay_Sievers
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harald_Hoyer

Germans can't tolerate nice things.

>>61189296
i am an end user and i never had to do anything with systemd excepting one time to turn on dhcpd

You just have to use systemd to create users :^)

https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/systemd-sysusers.html

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ITT: coolfrogs defending their edgy shit init system thats only upside is not being systemd

>>61189306
Akonadi, nepomuk, balloon or whatever the plasma indexer is now called. It's so troublesome that everyone deactivated it, therefore they changed its name to try to force people to use that buggy trash.

WE ALL NEED TO STOP USING SYSTEMD.

>>61190046
And you would have had the exact same experience regardless of the init system in use by your distro.

>>61189333
tl;dr

Arch is for developers not users. systemd is good for the developer. Lusers are whining about shit that ultimately doesn't matter to them.

>>61191237
>systemd is good for the developer
it's not though

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>>61189738
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ztOV2wrrkY

>>61187286
>Gnu's Not UNIX also follows POSIX
Yeah, no. Lots of UNIX weenies can tell you in great detail all the things "wrong" with GNU because to them UNIX is a religion. All of the standardized bugs and quirks are Features (C).

Ok, now i hate systemD and i will leave parabola gnu/linux.

Whats the best distro without systemD?

>>61191318
What's the point of this post? GNU does not care about UNIX.

>>61191332
Gentoo.

>>61191332
>PCLinuxOS if you don't want to use Gentoo.

>>61191417
>>61191433
Thanks. I will read about these distros. :)

>>61191256
Logind is good for DE developers, from what I've heard. ConsoleKit was unmaintained and apparently not in very good condition.

>>61191457
DE are literal garbage though.

how hard is it to type a name and password into the console BEFORE you get a gui? what brain damage requires a gui to log in

>>61191489
Congrats, your chromosome test came back. Above average!

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>SJW open sores
>NSA niggers devolving the ecosystem
>desktop environments getting progressively worse

as a wintard im amused at the current state of linux

>>61190107
Gnome has Tracker that's also hard on i/o, though not as bad as Baloo.
Indexers are great when they work but they don't quite scale with folders full of memes and doujins.

>>61186262
They way macOS has handled this for the past few releases is to have single purpose helper processes with permission to do what's required of it and no more. For instance, if you try to rename a file in the Finder and admin privileges are required to do that, the Finder spins up a daemon, the daemon asks for a username+pw, and if valid credentials are provided the task is performed. The Finder itself can only operate in directories where the user has full permissions.

>>61191631
If wangblows had not changed in any way whatsoever, we would have reached a crossover point with the introduction of systemd. However, given that wangblows became a few million times worse, it ended up devolving at a much faster rate than GNU.

>>61191631
good thing that i use openbox. been using it many years and nothing in it has changed.