Wind Energy Has Officially Become Cheaper Than Fossil Fuels

>>61142226
nuclear is the future. small reactors can be produced, they are much more manageable and safer. even old big nuclear power plants caused less deaths and illnesses than coal

>>61142506
>inb4 /pol/ drops in to scream about "muh clean coal"

>>61142226
*with heavy government subsidies

>>61142506
>wind more effective than nuclear now
>"lol nucular be teh future nao lmao"
Ummmm no? Try again, sweetie! ;p

>>61142533
You say that as if it was a bad thing.

>>61142545
>Something being mass produced and subsidized is cheaper than something regulated tighter than a nun's cooch and out of mass production
woooow

Sweden moved their entire country to nuclear power in less than a decade cheaply and safely.

Usual crazy lies from ecunuts

WInd energy is utter shit, possibly worse than solar

>>61142584
>we should mass produce un-regulated nuclear power plants to compete with wind power
Are you actually this fucking stupid. I see where tripfags get their reputation from.

>>61142636
>I won't believe the science due to my political beliefs
That's why nobody takes the right seriously: it quickly gets obvious you're not defending any truths, but the big corporations' economical interests.

>>61142636
Depends heavily on the area.
But it has great potential, just like Solar.

Still, there are literally no disadvantages to wind power in the long or short term.

>>61142753
You know big corp does wind turbines and solar cells, right?

>>61142771
yea but they're good corporations that have the interest of humanity at heart.

>>61142766
>Still, there are literally no disadvantages to wind power in the long or short term.
There's plenty of disadvantages, from fires to area issues, along with energy storage costs and the somewhat unpredictable nature of wind
>>61142798
jewposingasgoodgoy.png

>>61142753
>>I won't believe the science due to my political beliefs
What science?
These (((NGOs))) and lobbies just shill their BS and make up numbers.

Wind energy IS shit and can't even compete with massive subsidies.

This is a fact.

If solar or w.e was cheap and actually efficient I'd be happy to power my entire trailer for little to no cost.

But sadly it ain't.

Reminder that all this green acconomie BS only exists thanks to Global Warming scare psyop.

So right off the bat you know it's utter crap and terrible in the long run.

>>61142851
>>61142828
>>61142811
Wow, fossil fuel industry IDF out in full force this afternoon!

>>61142226
Too bad you can't store or transport the energy

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>>61142903

>>61142741
>Gen-4 nuclear power doesn't exist
Wew lad, it's like you want poor people to freeze to death in their living rooms.

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>>61142226
I give OP another 2 weeks or so after posting this.

He was a brave man... F

>>61142545
>sweetie
I always see you posting. Please make a goddamn trip so i can filter you. I dont ever want to see the word sweetie on the site

>>61142741
>>61142741
Nuclear isn't just regulated like a ''nun's cooch'' as the tripfag put it, it's also underfunded in every sense of the word.
It's underfunded as a university branch/study/science.
It's underfunded as a business
It's fearmongered in media
It's not been tought to public and left as an unknown

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>>61142959
wtf I love renewables now

>>61142545
It's not really cheaper than nuclear if it needs to be heavily subsidizes.

>>61143066
>responding to a post containing "sweetie"

>>61143026
>and yet, tories still won the election
WTF IS WRONG WITH THE BLOODY VOTERS!

>>61143070
Now post a video of a nuclear plant going wrong.

>>61143019
I don't see how this is relevant in any way. Are you implying that well funded nuclear power will suddenly not need to be regulated?

>>61142533
No, offshore wind farms no longer need subsidies.
That's the point.

>>61143078
Labour is more PRO green agenda than Tories you realize that correct?

The only ones against the bs were UKIP (RIP)

>>61142226
Who the fuck cares? Wind cannot serve as a base load (read: 100% always ready reliable) power supply. So either it's stuck helping out a little bit during peak hours (when the wind is actually blowing), or it's backed up by natural gas generators on hot standby (read: burning fuel) making the price more expensive than just using the natural gas in the first damn place.

And that's where wind works at all. Also where no one gives a shit about slaughtering local bird populations.

The solar/wind crowd just can't seem to grasp this fundamental concept. One of the key differences between wealthy first world countries and 3rd world shit holes is the availability of cheap, abundant, always on, always available electricity. Without that you can't have refrigeration for food and medicine, you can't have modern healthcare, businesses can't reliably operate and deliver goods, you can't shitpost on the Internet while watching anime at 2am, etc, etc.

>>61142545
>>wind more effective than nuclear now
>>"lol nucular be teh future nao lmao"
>Ummmm no? Try again, sweetie! ;p
Nice to be condescending when you have zero fucking clue about the electrical grid. If you don't understand what "base load power" is, you need to keep your mouth shut when it comes to national energy policy.

>>61143101
>The median cost of generating energy from offshore wind generation declined approximately 22%, but remains substantially more expensive than onshore wind facilities, especially in the U.S.

Literally from the sources of the so called "article" you linked moses

>>61143070
>wind-fags can't even build a glorified fidget spinner without it bursting into flames
>meanwhile, scientists are harnessing fusion, the power of the sun, without setting anything on fire

HOW WILL WIND EVER RECOVER?

>>61143066
>what is natural capital?

>liberal opposition of nuclear power
>dude chernobyl corporations LMAO

>advocators of nuclear power
>dude efficiency LMAO

>>61143105
>Wind cannot serve as a base load (read: 100% always ready reliable) power supply.

It can once you link up wind farms over a large area.
Because the wind is always blowing somewhere.

Specifically: if you build offshore wind farms along the North Sea from northern France to Poland and link them all up they will generate a very nice steady amount of power as weather systems move from west to east.

>>61143090
Before we do that, post a video of a wind turbine producing a terawatt-hour.

>>61143104
Tories are pro-freezing old people to death, you realize that?
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/806222/Winter-fuel-allowance-Tory-manifesto-pensioners-social-care-crisis

PS: most former UKIP voters swung Labour this election. Stay mad.

>>61143185
And then transmission losses fuck you sideways.

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It's literally the voluntary thirdworldization of the West.
You couple insane kWh and regulations with global free trade and you=mexico in 30 years or so (China was admitted to WTO in 2001)

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>>61143185
Are you the same guy that was arguing for a geosynchronous array of microwave emitters to do that?

>>61143141
I didn't link any articles.

All I know is the next offshore wind farm my country plans to build will be done without subsidies.
It's a pretty big story.

>>61143185
>Specifically: if you build offshore wind farms along the North Sea from northern France to Poland and link them all up they will generate a very nice steady amount of power as weather systems move from west to east.
And you will plunder the wages of every man and woman, force them to subsist on potatoes and rice, force them to wear duvets indoors, just to do what 10 nuclear power stations could.

You worthless commie scum.

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>>61143206
>most former UKIP voters swung Labour this election. Stay mad.
Hey buddy I'm more than happy to see ur island literally and figuratively raped to death by Achmed&friends

Stay mad

>>61143206
>doesn't know the meaning of "means-tested"

The best way for people to afford energy, is if it's cheap.

If the greens had their way, no hike in the fuel allowance would compensate for soaring prices.

>>61143244
did you see that on the telly? Or read it on major newspapers?

Then it obviously must be true 100%, just like everything else they report on.

>>61143105
Possible workarounds using some large scale "powerbank" solutions that store the excess, unused power for later use might work, but no guarantees obviously, and the cost of implementing these power banks are probably still too high to be realizable right now.

>>61143253
It's called graphene batteries sweetie.

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>>61143211
Western Europe is already connected into one big power grid (see pic).
And we already get hydro power from Norway, so distance isn't a big issue either.

Only real obstacle is working together.

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>>61143321
wow

>>61143070
What part of a wind turbine can even catch fire? Are the turbines oil cooled or something?

I always thought they were almost 100% metal.

>>61143253
Wind is cheaper than nuclear power.

Nuclear power requires government subsidies, if not for daily operation then surely for the cleanup job at the end of a plant's lifetime.
Wind doesn't.

>>61142811
>Fires
The wind isn't on fire
>Area issues
There are only boats out on the ocean, and hermits on mountain tops.
>Energy storage costs
There are transportation & storage costs of everything (trains and floating roof tanks aren't free), not sure how it is specific or unique to wind
>Unpredictable nature of wind
Do you even read NREL or just Fox News?

but muh coal

>>61143346
If you don't have an argument then just don't post retard.

>>61143078
It's almost as if workers don't want their money taken from them and wasted on bloody windmills

>>61143349
Probably the motor winding insulation.

>>61143185
>It can once you link up wind farms over a large area.
No, it cannot. The farm would be prohibitively massive. We could not afford it, to say nothing of land use and bird deaths. One city like Los Angeles or New York would need a state sized farm to meet their power needs reliably. And even THAT could fail under certain weather conditions.

>Specifically: if you build offshore wind farms along the North Sea from northern France to Poland and link them all up they will generate a very nice steady amount of power as weather systems move from west to east.
And be blown the fuck out with the first major storm. Stop jacking off to "green energy" porn and think about the problem rationally for once. Can a suburban home owner put enough wind mills on their tiny plot of land to power their home? Not even close. Now take a look at the size of a major city on a map. Triple that land area for enough power for suburban homes. Now triple it again for reliability. Oops! We forgot skyscrapers, condos, industry, civil infrastructure (lights; water pumps), etc, etc. So increase your land mass by...I don't know...50x for good measure.

Now multiply that figure by all the major cities in the U.S.

It ain't gonna happen and the taxpayer shouldn't be funding enviro porn for greenies to jerk it to. Nuclear is the future.

>>61143367
West Virginia on suicide watch.

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>>61143349

Wind and solar mainly have a problem with energy storage not energy production. The best energy storage we have is basically utilizing hydro-electric. Pump water into a lake during peak hours and then let water out during off hours. It's a nice simple solution but probably not environmentally friendly and not really feasible for a lot of places.

>>61143352
>Wind is cheaper than nuclear power
No it's not.

>Nuclear power requires government subsidies
Not everywhere.

>if not for daily operation then surely for the cleanup job at the end of a plant's lifetime
Gen-4 nuclear fission technology exists, plants are just huge concrete containers, they can be used for hundreds of years.

By the way, the vast majority of the cost of decommissioning a nuclear site is simply recycling concrete.

>>61143398
>Can a suburban home owner put enough wind mills on their tiny plot of land to power their home? Not even close.
That's because cities are generally not build into particularly windy areas, and even if they were, there are lots of other buildings blocking the wind.

>>61143099
Yes, actually. Not "unregulated" but a lot less insane than now. Current regulation is written for the admittedly risky plants designed in the 60s. Modern 4th gen plants and newer need less restrictions.

>>61143404
All this green energy is expensive as fuck. Look at California or Germany. Who cares if we can do it or not, I don't want to triple my power bill every month. Coal, and gas will be needed for many decades to come.

Who wants to live next to one of these, just look at the moving shadows.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbIe0iUtelQ

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>>61143349
>>I always thought they were almost 100% metal.
>metal doesn't need oil for lubrication
>electrical components can't burn
>metal can't grind, break, even burn
TRUST ME GUYZ WE NEED WIND POWER!

You know what would not fail in a storm like pic related? A nuclear power plant.

>>61142753
This. Fuck republitards and their evil corporate masters.
OUR corporate masters are the good guys. I know this because OUR corporate media said so.

>>61143470
Muh dead birds. Turbines are devestating to the local wildlife. Solar too.

People say there is no such thing as perpetual energy, but for all intents and purposes, the sun and weather, as a result, are basically perpetual as they will keep happening like clockwork for the next million years.

>>61143480
Yeah, all were doing is trading PG&E or Exxon for Tesla or some other shit.

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>>61143465
Just reduce your power consumption by 2/3.
Muh luxury become a non argument when the welfare of the entire planet is at stake.

Sadly this is the way of the future.

Sustainable negative growth will be imposed at at local and governmental level throughout the world in the next 10-20 years.

>>61143508
Air conditioning is a basic human right. A few years ago, 15,000 French died because they believe air conditioning is bad for you. If you believe in global warming, you must accept air conditioning as a necessity.

Hydro electric, nuclear fission, and solar is where it's at and where it will be at as far as fossil fuel alternatives go. Two of them can provide great base load near water and away from it respectively while another is fantastic for small time, personal use.

Wind takes up too much land and does not have enough resistance to the environment as the others do. Plus when a turbine breaks, fixing it is a pain in the ass.

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>>61143398
I'm not talking about a 3rd world shithole like America.
You lack the technology to build offshore wind farms.

But we're already building those farms in the North Sea as we speak.
And with every new farm they become spectacularly cheaper, to the point where they no longer require subsidies now.

I just hope for you Trump will keep sucking that Saudi dick - you need it.
Maybe grand the Saudi's the right to do a couple more 9-11's?

>>61143488
So will nuclear power, which is more effective than wind, solar and tidal.

>>61143455
>That's because cities are generally not build into particularly windy areas, and even if they were, there are lots of other buildings blocking the wind.
They can't do it any where you tard. I used to live in a rural area. When the state started subsidizing wind mills several people put them up. These were people with acres of land. The most any wind mill ever did was reduce their electrical bill a bit. You can't run an entire household on a windmill.

This gets to the heart of one of my problems with humanity: a bunch of fucking "math class is tough" Barbies offering their opinions on shit. You have clearly NEVER gathered the numbers and crunched them yourself. If you had, you wouldn't peddle this shit. Some CEO pays some media outlet to push wind hoping for a government subsidy so he can become rich off the taxpayer. That's all this shit ever is. That's because it's mathematically impossible to be what you dream it is.

But you dream it any way. And the rest of us have to pay for your fantasy.

>>61143529
>If you believe in global warming, you must accept air conditioning as a necessity.

But AC contributes to global warming.
You're willing to trade a few 10k dead old people for the future of 7bn of us?

Think again sweetie.

>>61142533
Somebody didn't read the article.

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>>61143508
>We should all live like africans
>White people need to stop reproducing
>We should import africans to compensate
Why is Germany obsessed with becoming Africa? They're going full GERMAN EFFICIENCY ™ on turning themselves into Germbabwe

>>61143508
>Just reduce your power consumption by 2/3.
No. Fuck you. Your theories about the end of the world are as ignorant as your theories about electricity because you are mathematically illiterate. I will not suffer to satisfy your fucking superstitions any more than I will suffer because a dot Indian thinks I should worship a cow.

>>61143535
>Maybe grand the Saudi's the right to do a couple more 9-11's?

>be me
>15yo europoor
>believe 9/11 is an inside job
>believe everything else the (((media))) tells me is however 100% true

wew lad

>>61143508
>the welfare of the entire planet is at stake
No it isn't.

>Sustainable negative growth will be imposed at at local and governmental level throughout the world in the next 10-20 years
Japan has had sustainable negative growth for 2 years, and the governments of the world immediately leapt to try and flood Japan with shitskin muslims.

The powers that be want NOTHING but a clamorous, poor, dependent, in-fighting population.

>>61143546
Stop posting in the internet, that consumes electricity.

>>61143530
>Wind takes up too much land

Which is why you build them at sea or on farm land.

>>61143560
Do you heat your house by surrounding it with open firepits?

>>61143477
Wind makes people feel good and it creates a lot of jobs.
It is far easier to automate most jobs on a nuclear plant than replace the manufacturing, building and maintenance of wind turbines.
Storms like what you showed are rare enough that you can work around the problem.

>>61143574
9/11 was an inside job of the Saudi government, yes.

They did it to show the Americans who their real master is.

>>61143529
>you must accept air conditioning as a necessity.
Nobody has AC here because it doesn't get hot enough.

>>61142506
LNG is much cheaper than nuclear now because of the U.S. shale gas boom.

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>>61143585
I offset that by only taking 1 shower per week, as water is also a nonrenewable resource if you wasn't aware.

>>61143607
>creates a lot of jobs
It's soviet-tier make-work bullshit.

I don't want the energy sector to create jobs, I want the energy sector to produce plentiful energy.

>>61143530
>Wind takes up too much land
They usually build them on farm land where nothing is going on in the first place. Certainly America doesn't have that problem where they take up too much space.

>>61143628
>water is also a nonrenewable resource
Do... do you take shower in a fusion reactor or something?

>>61143574
>((((meme brackets))))
>cant read
Perfect fit.

>>61143465
I don't know about Germany, but California suffered from neoliberal deregulation. Watch Enron: The Smartest Guys in the Room.

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>>61143610
Not for you then?

>>61143443
>>Wind is cheaper than nuclear power
>No it's not.

Read the article dummy.

>>61143535
>>You lack the technology to build offshore wind farms.
>global technology leader
>"hurr durr you can't build magic wind farms like our magic wind farms"
You are a God damn idiot. Mathematically illiterate. Ignorant about electrical production. Too stupid to even think about what will happen to those windmills during a bad storm.

>But we're already building those farms in the North Sea as we speak.
>And with every new farm they become spectacularly cheaper, to the point where they no longer require subsidies now.
Enjoy your blackouts.

>I just hope for you Trump will keep sucking that Saudi dick - you need it.
>"hurr durr america needs saudis for energy production"
We don't use oil for electrical. We haven't for many years. Oil is used for transportation. Most of our oil comes from our hemisphere. Middle eastern oil is far more important to Europe than to North America. And if push came to shove, the U.S. could provide its own oil. Prices would go up, but we have the infrastructure in place right now with the advances in fracking over the last decade.

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>>61143643
http://wwf.panda.org/about_our_earth/teacher_resources/webfieldtrips/water/

There's no shame in being ignorant, as long as you're willing to learn.

>>61143607
>Wind makes people feel good and it creates a lot of jobs.
I don't pay taxes so you can feel good and create make work jobs.

>>61142226

>around $100 per megawatt hour

= $0.1 per kilowatt hour = twice as much as I currently pay for my energy after taxes.

Water and nuclear power FTW.

>>61143535
Lel You also literally gave away all your gas for pennies

>>61143696
Please stop posting sexy girls in military fatigues, my dick can only get so hard!

>>61143631
What a dumb comment. There's no industrialized country that doesn't have people working in energy sector, energy is a basic necessity to keep other sectors working. I fail to see how having people working in it is a bad thing.

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>>61143628
>water is also a nonrenewable resource
>water
>"non renewable resource"
Oh fuck me you're ignorant.

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>>61143737

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>>61143727
They're brave IDF soldierlettes anon.
Protecting your freedom daily.

>>61143631
>"I don't want to create jobs!"
>"gee, I wonder why we're in such a deep recession and no one's buying anything! welp, guess I'll have to close my store..."

>>61143744
Clean water. Something places like Africa, India, and China don't have.

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>>61143631
>It's soviet-tier make-work bullshit.
Because it's not in an office?

It's jobs low-IQ's people can learn that are much better than most jobs they could ever do.

Solar and wind are definitely getting more economical to the point high-yield locations (very sunny or windy areas) no longer need subsidies to make profit.

There are ongoing debates about what tech should be the stopgap between coal and solar/wind/battery while the latter improves enough to be economical in most region in the world, not just the sunniest and the windiest places.

The prevailing concensus used to be nuclear, but with massive cost overruns and delays with the newest reactor designs (they were specifically designed to avoid construction complexity as much as possible to minimize delays), people are losing confidence in nuclear, not to mention a meltdown, however unlikely, can be catastrophic.

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>>61143488
This. Sun and Wind are far superior than goal and natural gas. There's room for nuclear power to come into play too. No point in burning dangerous toxic and limited resources anymore.
Don't be so stupid coal shills.

My family has been supported by the coal industry my whole life, not miners so we are not at risk considering steel will always need to be made, but seriously, make room for obviously better and more effecient new technology.

This IS the technology board right? Or am I on /pol/ somehow?

>>61143745
And yet solar is cheaper than both. So who cares?

>>61143785
>yet solar is cheaper than both
[citation needed]

>>61143721
>You also literally gave away all your gas for pennies

We used pretty much all of it ourselves.

>>61143771
Nah, mate, most of the jobs are in a factory or instillaton. China does well because they pay these people shit.

>>61142226
>dropped to around $100 per megawatt
>$100 per megawatt
>$100
This is peanuts for what hydro costs to generate.
>>61142533
My mom works as a power generation scheduler for all the dams on the Columbia river. She says that wind farms even get subsidies when they aren't generating power. They also set some of these farms where there is barely any wind.
For wind energy you need wind which is not always consistent (like solar). For hydro, the river always running.

>>61142506
Not if you have retarded nimbys around. Even clean energy is not safe from their scourge.

>>61143778
>This IS the technology board right? Or am I on /pol/ somehow?
/pol/ has been raiding /g/ for quite sometime now, lad. They realized we're one of the few non-conforming remaining boards on 4chan, and they simply couldn't accept that.

>>61143767
It's called rain, anon, and it happens regularly just about everywhere that isn't a desert.

>>61143737
>What a dumb comment.
Foreshadowing.

>There's no industrialized country that doesn't have people working in energy sector
And there's the dumb comment.

The job of the energy sector is to produce energy, not to create jobs.

If the job of the energy sector was to create jobs, we should immediately scrap all non-human anatomy forms of power generation, and just have rooms of people riding generator-equipped stationary bikes.

All paid for by the government of course, $50,000 per annum, plus insurance and family dental, with 10-weeks holiday per year.

>>61143778
It's clearly not as efficient tho.

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>>61143607

>Wind makes people feel good and it creates a lot of jobs.

Maybe one of the most dangerous jobs currently available.

It really sucks that our goverment is stealing tax payer money to pay for this wind farm bullshit. They are popping up fucking everywhere, they look horrible, are loud and dangerous to people working with or near them. Electricity costs 0.05c/kWh currently but the law says wind farm operators are guaranteed something like 0.15c/kWh and the tax payer has to pay the difference to the companies. Needless to say the greedy fuckers are building those cash printing machines as fast as they can.

>>61143809
Megawatt HOUR, not megawatt.

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>>61143815
>everywhere that isn't a desert
You mean places like Africa, India and China?

>>61142903
/pol/ is an overflowing cesspool that splashes shit onto almost every other board on this site.

>>61143791
Okay I'll admit I wasn't completely correct it's cheaper in certain markets

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/24/business/energy-environment/solar-and-wind-energy-start-to-win-on-price-vs-conventional-fuels.html

https://qz.com/871907/2016-was-the-year-solar-panels-finally-became-cheaper-than-fossil-fuels-just-wait-for-2017/

Wind and solar are only getting cheaper though

>>61143778
>>61143814
>Everyone who disagrees with me is /pol/
>If you don't blindly embrace every new thing you don't belong on /g/

The Boogeyman syndrome is real. Have you considered you just aren't able to handle that 4chan has become older and more conservative?

>>61143814
I seriously think it's the other way around, everyday is another shitty liberal circle jerk.

>>61143767
>looks at water cycle
>"but much clean water is not renewable!"
EVAPORATION CLEANS WATER 100% YOU MORON

Africa, India, and China don't have sufficient potable water supplies because they're 3rd world shit holes lacking decent civil infrastructure to transport water. And in India's case they're too stupid to stop themselves from shitting in the rivers they drink from. That doesn't mean "water is not renewable" or "clean water is a scarce resource."

>>61143758
>the answer to recession is intentional inefficiency

>>61142226
They are fucking ugly though.

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>>61143694
>Ameridumb
>tech leader

HA

HA

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

(pic related: technology your country can't even operate let alone build itself)

>>61142533
Just like coal and oil then

>>61143846

You say that, but everytime somebody disagrees with you, you accuse them of being /leftypol/.

https://rbt.asia/g/search/text/leftypol/

test

>>61143837
>Everything that isn't socialist dogma is /pol

It's hard to be tolerant of other people, isn't it?

>>61143814
>/g/
>non conforming

90% of normie Chan has been infected by pol and now they're bleeding into other chans and I see a lot of them coming from here. Pol attitude is normie now, controlled opposition like. Though I know there are still non conformers here but I'm sure I'll be seeing you on /pol/ free underground communities soon.

>>61143858
>what is aggregate demand?
God, please make economic illiterates stop posting ITT. Amen.

>>61143844
>Wind and solar are only getting cheaper though
Solar is entirely dependent on rare earth metal prices.

Wind is only cheap if 90% of the work is done in China, leading to further de-industrialization of your home nation.

>>61142959
Lmao, gen4 will be ready *maybe* un 2030.
Learn to read the fucking Wikipedia at least.

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Reminder that /g/ is a lgbtpq+ friendly, Isreal friendly (best ally!), progressive boards.

Everyone else pls go

>>>/pol/

>>61143165

This guy gets it.

http://grist.org/business-technology/none-of-the-worlds-top-industries-would-be-profitable-if-they-paid-for-the-natural-capital-they-use/

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Do liberals/commiecuks really believe that you can run an economy with crappy intermittent power?

>>61143820
>If the job of the energy sector was to create jobs, we should immediately scrap all non-human anatomy forms of power generation, and just have rooms of people riding generator-equipped stationary bikes.

That wouldn't really create jobs but you know we could probably do that actually and redistribute the power based on how much you put into the system. However that wouldn't be the primary method of generation because it would be too unreliable and people just couldn't afford to do that constantly. It could be a method to lower your power bill.

>>61143858
It's not inefficient.
It just spends the money on man power rather than natural resources.

And in the current economy we have plenty man power to spare, whereas natural resources become scarcer.

>>61143855
Enjoy your non degrading, nano sized plastic in absolutely everything

>>61143773
>Solar and wind are definitely getting more economical to the point high-yield locations (very sunny or windy areas) no longer need subsidies to make profit.

Nope. Here's one of the best designs in one of the sunniest locations on the face of the planet.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivanpah_Solar_Power_Facility#Performance

>There are ongoing debates about what tech should be the stopgap between coal and solar/wind/battery
Only among idiots who don't know any better. Solar/wind/battery (kek...let's fuck the environment up with heavy metals) will never be man's power source. We're going to keep using fossil fuels until governments stop dicking around with nuclear and encourage simpler, fail safe designs.

>>61143913
>>>61143844
>>Wind and solar are only getting cheaper though
>Solar is entirely dependent on rare earth metal prices.
Bullshit.
>Wind is only cheap if 90% of the work is done in China, leading to further de-industrialization of your home nation.
It doesn't happen in EU.

>>61143913
Why are you singling out wind energy for this?

By that logic, pretty much any manufactured good purchase further deindustrialize your home country since everything from plastic toys to gas turbines are made in China.

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>>61143002
Sure thing sweetie

>>61143846
I think you mean blindly conservative. Think about the bigger picture, nobody cares if the future is irrelevant to you because your older.

>>61143906
>what is aggregate demand?
A meme used to justify literally any imaginable government measure.

A form of desperate rationalization of never-ending human expansionism on a planet with limited resources.

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>>61143913
That applies only to solar panels. A solar plant that uses a series of mirrors to heat a central focus point doesn't require rare earth metals.

>>61143931
That's what many countries are doing much better than you americucks

>>61143913
"Rare earth metals" aren't actually rare in the first place. If China raised the prices on them too high other groups would start mining them and the prices would begin to fall again. The only reason no one else does is because mining is destructive and disposing of heavy metals is bad for the environment. China is the only one that wants to mine them.

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>>61143941
>Solar/wind/battery (kek...let's fuck the environment up with heavy metals) will never be man's power source.
It will when you're on daily electricity rationing from the UN worldwide dipshit

Wind is also shit because most of the power grids are not build to handle the variable output of wind turbines.

Increased reliance in wind and solar power is going to lead into third world like brownouts and blackouts sooner or later.

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>>61143875
That's not your country at the top of the list.

>>61143913
>Wind is only cheap if 90% of the work is done in China

BULL SHIT.

They don't build wind turbines in China to ship them half way across the world.
They build them locally.

And erecting and maintaining them most definitely creates local jobs.

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>>61143931
Do cuckservatives unironically think more and more people aren't becoming economically literate and in turn becoming immune to their economical fallacies?

>>61143970
You need base load power you retarded n*gger. This is why we need fascism. Under liberal "democracy" every single clueless retard has a say on complex issues like managing the power grid.

>>61143938
>when you're so triggered you come up with a non-response

>>61143993
Then improve the fucking power grid.
Seriously, even fucking Poland can do that much. Get your shit together, burgers.

>>61143941
>some old solar plant had performance issues in 2014, so that means the newest solar panels rolling off the lines right now aren't efficient when solar panel efficiency has been going up ~5% year-over-year

>>61144003
>"it creates local jobs!"
>t. Broken Windows Fallacy

>>61143997
That only indicates which country can/want buy moar gpus

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>>61144006
???
/pol/ is a socialist board.
It's actually liberals that are pro global free trade, pro corporativism now

Have you been living under a rock?

>>61144006
Only thing a Democrat is good for is raising my taxes and telling me men can actually be women after all.

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>>61143997
True.

We just build the most cutting edge advanced computer tech.

But you have the most peaceful niggers

>>61143815
The rain that falls in certain places is far from clean, though.

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>>61144021
America actually produces more renewable energy than your slavn*gger shithole.

>>61144034
It would be broken window fallacy only if they were tearing down pefectly fine wind turbines to put up almost identical one in its stead.

>>61144034
>spend $100k per year importing oil from terrorist sponsors = great

>spend $100k per year to have a local chap maintain some wind turbines that generate the same amount of power = "broken windows"

Thanks, Mohammed.

>>61144042
>socialist
What a funny way to spell neocon.

>>61144045
I know, glad I support the Green party instead.

>>61144009
So you're saying that the States already reached the point where the peaks are entirely covered by renewables?
Not even Germany has reached that point.
Also,
> what is hydro pumping storage
> what is hydrogen generation
> what are batteries (at the single home level)

>>61144079
It is a broken window because it destroys capital stock such as fossil fuel and nuclear plants and replaces it with stupid windmills.

>>61144026
>>some old solar plant had performance issues in 2014,
>built 2010-2014
>"old"
You don't know about Ivanpah SPF yet you're preaching solar and wind power on /g/? At what point do you recognize your own ignorance and stop posting until you learn more?

>>so that means the newest solar panels rolling off the lines right now aren't efficient when solar panel efficiency has been going up ~5% year-over-year
>comparing solar panels to concentrated thermal
>thinking solar panels are more efficient or cost/effective than concentrated thermal
>thinking solar panels can power the world when concentrated thermal can't meet it's targets in the fucking mojave desert
WEW LAD

>>61144063
And China much more than murica.
What's the point?

>>61144095
are you actually memeing son?
The neocons control both parties, especially Dems.

Are you coming from rebbit or....?

>>61144054
KEK. You have me on Obongo's meaningless "prize."

But US still grabs the most tech/science nobel awards and patents.

>>61144126
I know that. Which is why I support the Green party instead. Did you miss that part?

>>61144108
Nobody is breaking down power plants that haven't reached end of life yet.

We just build fewer brand new coal plants.

>>61144102
>So you're saying that the States already reached the point where the peaks are entirely covered by renewables?
No, he's saying that wind is NOT A BASE LOAD SUPPLY. How fucking difficult is this to grasp? Base load = X power level is available ALL THE FUCKING TIME.

ITT: Retards who decided to link particular techs to political affiliations and are fighting over them purely based on "my team is better than your team" tribalism

kys everyone

>>61142226
so we're supposed to plaster the countryside with these ugly ass things?

>>61144147
At higher cost than replacing the coal plants with new coal plants, or natural gas, or nuclear.

When you cry "it's more expensive BUT IT CREATES JOBS" you're still committing the broken windows fallacy.

>>61144102
>already reached the point where the peaks are entirely covered by renewables

Renewable energy isn't manageable you retard. You can't control when the wind blows. That means you need a lot of back up fossil fuel plants to cover any shortfall and that raises the costs of the entire power grid. Not only that but when there is a lot of cheap wind energy wholesale electricity prices fall to zero which means other plants lose money and have to close further destabilising the power grid. It's a giant mess

>hydro pumping storage
Not economical and there aren't enough sites to build such facilities

>hydrogen generation
Meme tier

>what are batteries (at the single home level)

Not economical unless you go entirely off grid

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>>61144150
What's wrong with avoiding using electricity every once in a while when the turbins ain't spinning?
Are you THAT spoiled

>>61144150
Cali has so much energy, they have to pay millions a day to get other states to take it.

>>61144132
US is also 20 times bigger than my country.

And you were doing great until the 1930's.
But when I visited your country a couple of years ago it was like stepping back in time 25 years. - it really is that bad.

>>61144150
And I ask you again, have the States reached the point where the grid does not support more "non-baseload" power?
I don't think so.
Besides, your country is big, you just have to build more interconnections between states to distribute the local peaks from wind power.

>>61143846
Conservatism isn't about renewables vs nonrenewables. It's about handouts vs standing on your own. Nonrenewables shit on everything every step of the way e.g. acid mine drainage, slag, derailments / pipeline ruptures, etc. and don't have to pay for it. When they do have to pay a little bit, they blame regulation for not letting them shit things up for the rest of us.

>>61144147

Germany actually forced all its nuclear power plants to close by X date. That alone was a huge destruction of wealth. Of course Germany has the second highest electricity prices in Europe after Denmark (another wind power powerhouse).

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>>61144126

Dems is about to get taken over by progressives though.

>>61144174
>At higher cost than replacing the coal plants with new coal plants, or natural gas, or nuclear.

Nope.png

Same cost.
That's the whole point of this thread.

>>61144182
>what's wrong with food spoiling and going hungry
>what's wrong with medicine expiring and people dying
>what's wrong with unreliable work, production, and pay schedules
>what's wrong with grandma dying because there's no ac in a heat wave
>what's wrong with water supplies failing
>what's wrong with living like they do in Africa and India

>>61144182
In some places avoiding using electricity means suffering in 100+ degree temperatures.

>>61144204
OK, I'll give you Germany.

But they're the only ones and it had nothing to do with clean energy. - they replaced them with coal plants.

>>61144199
what emirate are you posting from again?

>>61144223
Ummmm.. rightists are the ones advocating for things to go to waste because they can't be given away for free, sweetheart.

>>61144223
>grandma dying

Good thing she died before she could leech $500K from Medicare to extend her life by 2 weeks.

>>61144185
Only for a few hours and certain days. For example if the wind blows at the middle of the night and electricity consumption is low. I have already explained that ITT. I bet 90% of the posters here don't even understand that there is no way to store electricity it has to be produced at the exact same time is consumed.

>>61144182
>renewables are so shitty you have to change your entire way of life around them
Nuclear is the only way to go. Solar is when we actually get to mine asteroids and can build exoplanetary structures.

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>>61144223
>living like they do in Africa and India
Maybe it's time we take it down a notch and level the field, and YES commit to a more sensible lifestyle like those places you mentioned

>>61143461
Nice trip you fucking idiot

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>>61144199
>And I ask you again, have the States reached the point where the grid does not support more "non-baseload" power?
WTF are you talking about? What does it mean to "support non-base load power?" There's no "supporting" that, there's simply throwing up your hands when the rolling blackouts come.

>Besides, your country is big, you just have to build more interconnections between states to distribute the local peaks from wind power.
You have no fucking clue how many windmills would be necessary to try and make a stable grid because you are mathematically illiterate and have never run the numbers. I agree with >>61144009 because I'm sick of dealing with retards who think their opinion is precious even though they have done zero research.

And no, regurgitating what Al Gore tells you in a video is not "research."

>>61143979
>save the environment with solar panels!
>while fucking the environment even more while mining the materials required to manufacture them!

How much wind is there on the US-Mexico border? Could we make the wall wind powered?

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>>61144287
>Ecoterrorists are now openly admitting they want to live like African'ts

solar panels can be had for 29 cents a watt.
good luck finding wind turbines for anything close to that

>>61144261
I already told you: graphene batteries.
Every home installs a minimum of 12000VA or gets fined by 2025.
It's a pricey investment but totally worth it in the long run.

>>61143979
What are those "rare metals" anyways?

>>61144309
Half of it is mountain.

It's cost prohibitive to build a wall there, let alone power generators.

>>61144305
Why do macfags think they're welcome on /g/?

>>61144034
Somebody doesn't understand that the fuel costs are the major expense of fossil fuel plants. So the "broken window fallacy" looks like this:

You have windows lining the street. They are shitty windows that, every day, spall hundreds of glass shards. These glass shards cannot be cleaned up. They are an environmental pollutant. Every day we send glaziers around to patch these shitty windows, for them to spall again.

The proposal we have is to ditch these shitty windows for more sturdy ones. They cost more up front but they do away with the pollution and the glaziers' daily patching which only creates more pollution.

You say Broken Window Fallacy, I say Fixed Window Ingenuity.

>>61144289
stop talking to yourself tripfag

>>61144324
29 cents a watt*

* Not including the large scale power storage infrastructure that costs as much as a hydro plant, which you should have built instead

>>61144328
Batteries are uneconomical maybe in the distant future it will make sense

>pricey investment
Then it isn't worth it with the current technology and costs. Stop with the wishful thinking.

I thought 4chan was nationalist. Why are there so many Saudi shills who want us to be dependent on a finite resource that's primarily found in the middle East over energy sources that are domestic?

>>61144349
nobody is talking about storage.
nuclear power plants dont store energy either.
why is everyone on /b retarded?

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>>61144321
>want to live like African'ts
It's not about "want" is about "need".
It's the only realitic way to save our planet for our beautiful caramel grandchildren

>>61144345
>Wind turbines do away with pollution
No, they do away with CO2 emissions. They create unprecedented amounts of visual, noise and light pollution.

Don't confuse pollution with emissions, or renewable fuel with carbon neutral fuel. They're entirely different categories.

>>61144305
Lmao, it's pretty depressingto know that on the other side of the ocean live these dumb people brainwashed by their billionaires.
Check out what we're doing in Denmark, Sweden, Germany etc. with offshore wind and HVDC transmission.

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>>61144254
>advocate for shit electrical grid
>bad things happen because shit grid
>IT'S THE REPUBLICANS FAULT
Typical brain dead lefty.

>>61144287
>Maybe it's time we take it down a notch
No. I want fucking FTL starships. I want humanity to colonize the Milky Way.

>and level the field,
>MUH EQUALITY!
No. I don't deserve to live at their level because I do not behave the way they do. When they want to live like human beings they can change their behavior.

>and YES commit to a more sensible lifestyle like those places you mentioned
>"sensible"
You want to live like a filthy animal, you go right ahead and move to one of those shit holes.

>>61144394
>CO2 emissions
>not poisonous

Pick one

>>61144393
Try winning an election on a platform of "let's live like apes".

>>61144389
Are you retarded? If you build a grid entirely based on solar you NEED storage. Or you will have rolling blackouts constantly. Nuclear doesn't store energy because it produces consistent power output.

>>61144394
>manufacting steel
>no polution

>>61144305
>>61144397
And by the way, avoid to link shitty articles from the even more shitty and corrutpted UK tabloids.

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>>61144397
Denmark and Germany have the highest electricity prices in the Western world

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>>61144394
>if I can't see anything there's no pollution!

>>61143628
How bad do you smell?

>>61144411
>CO2 emissions
>Poisonous
Is that what they're teaching in schools these days? The concentration of CO2 needed for toxicity would take literally millions or billions of years to reach at current rates.

>>61144420
I'm only considering operational costs and pollution to be fair, because all plants require some sort of large scale mining (be it copper, steel, uranium or fossil fuel)

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>>61144405
>You want to live like a filthy animal, you go right ahead and move to one of those shit holes.

What does it solve if there's people like you producing 10 to 50 times the CO2 emissions at the same time?

The problem can't be fixed until the West reaches a much more sustainable equilibrium.
Meaning 4-6kwh per household per day on average.

>>61144411
CO2 is odourless and colourless it is not a pollutant in the classic sense. It only affects the environment indirectly and that is up for debate anyway

>>61144436
And?
They are doing well anyway, and they accept it because they are not old fat cunts that don't care about their future.

>>61144417
>needing a grid
kinda missing the point, 12 yr old

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>>61144441
>Complains about CO2
>Posts a picture of nitrogen and sulphur pollution
Smog isn't CO2, sweetie. Read a book. Or even the Wiki article. Hell, the fucking Google definition would help you here.

>>61144448
Pretty bad desu

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>>61144466
>Le based sweden xD

>>>/r/eddit

>>61144329
According to wikipedia the lanthanides on the periodic table + scandium and yttrium. They're not actually "rare" but the extraction process is difficult and expensive. This has caused mining to slow or cease operation in most countries outside of China and America.

>>61144306
Well minign is not good for the environment but if it resumed in the west it would be following the environmental regulations of the west which can be more stringent than China's

>>61144472
WTF is this "sweetie" shit a new meme or what?

>>61144328
VA isn't even a unit of energy you dumb fuck.

>>61144466
Let's get this straight. You claimed renewables were cheap and cited Germany. Anon showed you renewables are expensive and cited Germany's actual electrical costs. Now "cheap doesn't matter anyways!"? You lost, and want to move the goal posts. Sorry sweetie.

Fuck turbines
They kill birds and are noisy and have shit capacity

Wind is for cucks. Go nuke!

>>61144471
Home storage doesn't change anything nigger, it just INCREASES the storage cost because you need large lithium batteries instead of a shared community kinetic battery like a pump station. Keep digging that hole! Maybe you'll strike oil!

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>>61144495
Get a hold of this sweetie

>>61144382
>Batteries are uneconomical maybe in the distant future it will make sense

They are making good progression with formic acid cells.
And I think it can be the answer.

Unlike normal batteries you don't need more formic acid cells to store more energy.
You can just build holding tanks to store as much formic acid as you like.

You could for example fill up your formic acid reserves during autumn when there is lots of wind.
And then use it to generate electricity during summer.

It's also possible to transport it on ships if some continent has a shortage while another has a surplus.

>>61144537
>fill up your formic acid reserves during autumn when there is lots of wind.
>And then use it to generate electricity during summer.

Are we talking lake sized tanks for a 2 bedroom home or...?

>>61144537
Or you could just pump water up a hill with excess power and run the pump backwards as a generator during peak loads, letting water flow back downhill. Hydro dams are cheap and well understood, and can be used to store energy. It's a kinetic battery.

>>61144531
>>>61144471 (You)
>Home storage doesn't change anything nigger, it just INCREASES the storage cost because you need large lithium batteries instead of a shared community kinetic battery like a pump station. Keep digging that hole! Maybe you'll strike oil!

>using lithium in batteries
you may as well stop posting now

>>61144557
Why is it that all these solutions sound incredibly impractical?

Where would this stuff be located exactly and how many people would it service

>>61144489
Personally I also don't care if Chinese and African environments get fucked due to shitty mining practices.
Not my problem.

Better than global warming, which actually affects me.

>>61142506
>nuclear is the future.
And will remain the future. For the foreseable future.

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>>61144575
if Chinese and African environments get fucked due to shitty mining practices

But then we have to house all the 3 BN African refugees

>>61143070
It's a hybrid turnine you cunts it's diesel + wind storm night it works on diesel t keep smooth energy generation

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>>61142798
>>61142753
>>61142828
>>61143480
>>61142903
So I really don't understand. If Big oil/coal was so afraid don't you think they'd put their immense profits into renewable energy? They're smart people and renewable energy seems to be the inevitable future. Why would they past off the chance to gain the monopoly? This doesn't make sense. Why does no one think about this? Am I missing something?

>>61144499
Never claimed renewables are cheaper (maybe another anon), but they actually are, compared to other ways to limit CO2 emissions.
What I can say is that they are definitely feasible without too much sacrifices, if there is the will and a bit of long term planning.

>>61144574
>Where would it be located?
Wales. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinorwig_Power_Station

>Why does it sound impractical?
Because macro engineering isn't vogue anymore.

>>61144569
What do you propose then, nigger? Or have you just ran out of arguments? Solar induces storage costs. Period. Deal with it.

>>61144345
>Somebody doesn't understand that the fuel costs are the major expense of fossil fuel plants.
Somebody doesn't understand that fossil fuel plants are still cheaper, and replacing something cheaper with something more expensive...with no other gains...all for "muh jobs" is the essence of the fallacy.

>>61144397
>Check out what we're doing in Denmark, Sweden, Germany etc.
You idiot. TOTAL electrical production for those three countries (GWh):
Germany: 648,400
Sweden: 154,900
Denmark: 34,581

U.S. RENEWABLE energy production (GWh): 609,057

The U.S. produces more electricity from renewable sources than Sweden+Denmark do from ALL sources. And nearly as much as Germany produces from ALL sources. And don't forget that smaller European nations with high RE use are backed up by fossil fuel plants else where in Europe. Kind of like lefty California can fall back on Texas when the sun isn't shining.

The U.S. has more land and nearly as many people as the entire fucking European Union. Keep that in mind before mouthing off.

>>61144601
Renewables are a front pushed by Big Oil to halt nuclear progress. It worked.

https://www.forbes.com/forbes/welcome/?toURL=https://www.forbes.com/sites/kensilverstein/2016/07/13/are-fossil-fuel-interests-bankrolling-the-anti-nuclear-energy-movement

>>61144508
Your cat on average kills hundreds of birds per bird killed by a turbine

>>61144609
all the excess energy my panels produce goes into heating hot water. super fucking cheap.

>>61144631
I very much doubt my cat kills bald eagles

>>61144628
>>61144601
Fixed link
https://www.forbes.com/sites/kensilverstein/2016/07/13/are-fossil-fuel-interests-bankrolling-the-anti-nuclear-energy-movement/

>>61144449
>The concentration of CO2 needed for toxicity would take literally millions or billions of years to reach at current rates.

It's increasing at over 1.5 part per million per year.
Currently at 400 parts per million.

So at current rate, the atmosphere would become 100% CO2 in about 666.400 years.

>>61144597
You also have the 3bn African refugees if the place where they live reaches 50°C (and it will happen)

>>61144612
You do realize Texas gets a lot of energy from "lefty" sources like wind? It's brought the cost down quite a bit.

>>61144631
>Outdoor cats
Nobody is defending nigger tier cat owners. Why are you trying to distract with a tu quoquoe?

>>61144660
>1.5 is half of 3
>666 years
>666 is a multiple of 3
Halflife 3 release confirmed!

>>61144660
>looking at short term trends

>>61144612
How do Americans define "renewable"?

Does coal count as renewable becasue Jesus will make more coal?

>>61144489
They're called rare earth because they're not renewable at all. Compared to them, fossil fuels are renewable, since the supply can be reestablished a few hundred millions of years down the road. Not so with those metals, unless we eventually become capable of energy to matter conversion

>>61142506
fpbp

>>61144411
>>CO2 emissions
>>not poisonous
>Pick one
CO2 is literally the foundation of the food chain and therefore all life on Earth you moron. It's what plants breath. We are all carbon based life forms. Holy fuck what do they teach in school today???

>>61144432
>England's grid problems all over the news
>"herp derp it's just shitty tabloids"

>>61144459
>What does it solve if there's people like you producing 10 to 50 times the CO2 emissions at the same time?
Once again: I will not live like an animal because you are mathematically illiterate and therefore believe in a global catastrophe religion.

>>61144459
>The problem can't be fixed until the West reaches a much more sustainable equilibrium.
>Meaning 4-6kwh per household per day on average.
No. I would join a violent revolt against any government that tried to impose this 3rd world living standard on me. You can go fuck yourself with that shit. You people get close to implementing something like that and you will be facing bullets.

You don't basic facts about electrical production and the grid. You've never run any numbers regarding same. You believe in fantasy land bullshit. And I will not suffer for your "feelings."

>>61144666
After a few countries collapse under weight of migrants, which will happen before Africa hits 50°, navies will be more than willing to sink migrant ships. Governments learn slowly, but they do learn.

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>>61144689
>Jesus will make more coal
Jesus will in fact NOT make more coal, as the End Times are nigh

>>61144676
>I can't read.

666.400
sixhundredsixtysixTHOUSANDfourhundred years

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nqNa6992ih4

>>61144689
I asked my teacher in middle school. The definition she gave me was if it can replenish itself in under 100 years. So fossil fuels can't be renewable since they take over 100 years to form.

>>61144685
>le moving goal posts

>current rates
>CURRENT rates

KYS

>>61144743
Most of the western world uses 1,234.56 standard. If you don't I'll happily admit I read wrong.

>>61144752
Except we can make synthetic oil. It's not likely to be done on a "fuel the world" scale, but it's not impossible.

But we come back to the point that renewable and carbon neutral are two different and distinct goals. Synthetic oil is renewable, nuclear is carbon neutral, neither is the other.

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>>61144660
>the atmosphere would become 100% CO2
>100%
>CO2

>>61142226
Yeah wind farms destroying ecosystems is a real great solution

>>61144612
>You idiot. TOTAL electrical production for those three countries (GWh):
>Germany: 648,400
>Sweden: 154,900
>Denmark: 34,581
>U.S. RENEWABLE energy production (GWh): 609,057
>The U.S. produces more electricity from renewable sources than Sweden+Denmark do from ALL sources. And nearly as much as Germany produces from ALL sources. And don't forget that smaller European nations with high RE use are backed up by fossil fuel plants else where in Europe. Kind of like lefty California can fall back on Texas when the sun isn't shining.
>The U.S. has more land and nearly as many people as the entire fucking European Union. Keep that in mind before mouthing off.


Are you fucking retarded? You have literally explained why you're wrong. The US are much bigger and richer than those countries put together.
And just for your interest, there isn't much energy coming from fossil fuels towards Germany and Denmark, when they need it they use nuclear from France (and I'm not entirely against nuclear)

>>61142506
And small reactors are compatible with wind farms and other renewables. Their small size allows them to ramp up and ramp down power production

>>61143070
>>61143422
This was sad, they hugged before dying.

>>61144689
>when your BTFO so bad your only option is to try being a smart ass
RE has a standard definition. Look it up.

>>61144628
>>61144658
Ingenious. And people rally behind this ploy

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>>61144767

No, it's really just you, the poo-in-loos and the ching chong ding dongs.

>>61144788
Synthetic oil produced from CO2 using nuclear or solar would be carbon neutral.

And yes, there are US firms and labs working on this right now.

>>61143185
>It can once you link up wind farms over a large area.
>Because the wind is always blowing somewhere.
But is it always blowing enough in enough places to serve the minimum requirements of the entire grid?

(The answer is no.)

>>61144108
>fossil fuel
>capital stock
it's millions of years old. fully depreciated.
>>61144150
Wind is a base load supply. There is always wind power on the grid all the fucking time.
>>61144177
>hydro pumping storage
>not enough sites to build such facilities
http://energystorage.org/energy-storage/technologies/sub-surface-pumped-hydroelectric-storage

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>>61143836
well, not a lot of people live on those regions, pic related is a rough overlay of population density
and if anything, cheaper power makes desalination more viable

>>61144796
>Are you fucking retarded? You have literally explained why you're wrong. The US are much bigger and richer than those countries put together.
WTF does that have to do with anything? You mouthed off about America being "backwards" for not have RE at the same scale as Denmark or Germany...YET WE HAVE MORE.

>And just for your interest, there isn't much energy coming from fossil fuels towards Germany and Denmark, when they need it they use nuclear from France (and I'm not entirely against nuclear)
The point is they're relying on someone else to fill in the gaps because RE is not BASE LOAD. Denmark and California may get away with that shit, but only because of France and Texas. The human race cannot run off solar, wind, or unicorn farts.

>>61142226
>Futurism llc
>sponsored by the Dubai Future Foundation
Yeah, these articles totally aren't shilling for the US to abandon domestic production of oil and gas so that the Middle East Countries can continue being fucking filthy rich. Seriously, you guys are so fucking stupid to believe anything about renewables that comes out of this hack outlet. It took me <5 minutes to find this information.

>>61144690
I don't know if you can consider them "renewable" but they weren't really used up. You can break down old electronics and extract the heavy metals (including rare-earths) from them and then reuse those metals in new products again and again, basically recycling. I don't think it alters the chemical or physical properties of the metal at all. I know with some metals like aluminum it's more efficient to reuse them than it is to mine them.

>>61144871
>Wind is a base load supply. There is always wind power on the grid all the fucking time.
Base load = the minimal required supply. See: >>61144866

>>61144612
USA: 14% renewable
Germany: 33%
Denmark: 57%
Sweden: 60%
Norway: 98%

Face it, you lack the technological know how to get into green energy and now your white trash is shouting "muh coal jewbs"

>>61144903
>WTF does that have to do with anything? You mouthed off about America being "backwards" for not have RE at the same scale as Denmark or Germany...YET WE HAVE MORE.

Do you you have an idea on what the word "percentage" means?

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>>61144906
>stop using fossil fuels

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>>61144925
>lack the technological know how to get into green energy and now your white trash is shouting "muh coal jewbs"
But green energy sucks balls and your elderly are literally dying off bc electricity is too expensive. How are you bragging about this?

Not to mention 90% of the shit gets manufactured in chinkland

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>>61144925
stay mad

>>61144978
Here in Germany, the government and media have started referring to electricity as a luxury. America, green energy is expensive.

>>61144906
And while we discuss on whom we should buy energy from, these people are actually investing billions in renewable energy in their countries.
I wonder why...

>>61144924
Being part of the base load doesn't mean you have to generate it all on your own.

Base load is spread out between several energy sources, and wind can indeed be a part of it although it's limited to the minimum output (ie: time with least amount of wind).

>>61144925
You can't compare the US to individual EU nations which are on the scale of US states. You have to compare the US to the EU.

The US is at roughly 14% and the EU at roughly 16%. Difference is not tech. The US taxpayer doesn't want to fund this shit.

>>61144950
Do you not realize, yet, that you have to compare the US to the entire EU? Germany barely compares to one of our two largest states. Denmark would be like...fucking Rhode Island.

>>61145034
Besides in the right areas wind blows pretty much always.
IIRC in the northern sea they can produce energy >85% of the time.

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>>61144978
>your elderly are literally dying off bc electricity is too expensive.

lolwhat?

>>61144436
>>61144466
Actually, it shows that Denmark has the cheapest electricity generation cost, cheaper than Finland. Taxes and VAT are arbitrary.

>>61145044
And rightly so. If wind and solar are truly cheaper they wouldn't need taxpayer funding.

>>61142545
Nuclear isnt a fossil fuel.
Ergo, no wind isnt outperforming it given the evodence ITT

>>61142226
Well ya, I dont even understand how people need science to tell them that burning fucking coal is ass-fuck retarded. Like what is this the 1800s?

I'd also like to know to how long a term they're comparing the costs for a nuclear plant. Because newer ones are like 99.99% efficient, and have almost no waste, but if you calculate it over, say, a 10 year term, its going to look a lot worse than over 25 just because the initial cost is so huge.

Although I think we should be using a combination of wind, solar, hydro (less so than the others, it has a pretty big environmental impact at first) and nuclear for most of our power needs.

>>61145070
>If wind and solar are truly cheaper they wouldn't need taxpayer funding.

And wind doesn't.

(well, modern offshore wind using superior European technology, American shitmills are still hugely expensive due to no engineering skills)

>>61145044
>You have to compare the US to the EU.
No dipshit, as
US=320,000,000
EU=501,000,000

>>61145034
>Being part of the base load doesn't mean you have to generate it all on your own.
Solar and wind are not base load power supplies. Being able to generate a few watts at any time != base load. Base load means if you contract with a region to provide XYZ MWh, you better fucking deliver it.

Ivanpah solar is facing a real risk of being closed down because they promised CA they could deliver a certain amount of electricity and the are at less than 40%. This is a new plant in one of the sunniest locations on Earth with the world's best and brightest running the numbers and it's still failing. Solar/wind are pipe dreams.

>>61145086
>Replying to a two hour old post that was already btfo by four anons in four ways

>>61145044
EU is composed also of poor underdeveloped ex-communist countries.
Some of them (Poland is the biggest) still rely heavily on coal, but they really have no other choice at the moment.

You can't take those countries in a comparison with the US.

>>61145100
>wind doesn't.
Keep lying

By your own admission MAYBE one plant will not need subsidies anymore bc u herd it on tv derp herp

>>61145120
>California in 20 years will be Poland now, a poor ex-communist state with crumbling infrastructure
really makes thing jiggers jagger

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>>61145120
Sure, let's just use your arbitrary decision on who's in the EU.

>>61145068
Right, how dumb do you have to be to post a (chronostatic) image about life expectancy when someone mentions the 100ks of elderly that die every winter in your yuropoorland