Will internal sound cards ever make a comeback?

>>61136286
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/high-end-pc-audio,3733.html

>Using world-class headphones, a $2 Realtek integrated audio codec could not be reliably distinguished from the $2000 Benchmark DAC2 HGC in a four-device round-up. Again, all four devices sounded great.

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>>61136286

The audio dudes like external hardware and the normos don't need anything more than onboard. Sound cards are completely fine products but they don't have much of a market.

>>61136310
fucking audiophiles need to be shot.

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>>61136310
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

but people will still claim they can hear the difference.

>>61136355
>audiophiles need to be shot
Agreed! But they should be forced to listen to their favourite albums on $5 desktop speakers first.

>>61136377
>mild discomfort intensifies

>>61136286
They only matter to professional musicians dealing with electronic music. It's useless for listening, because the quality of on-board DACs is good enough to be nondistinguishable from dedicated cards.

>>61136397
They're apparently good for recording audio too

>>61136320
Pretty much. There just isn't a lot to be gained by sticking an interface in the PCI-E slot instead of an USB3 port and the outside of the PC is a far nicer place to be in terms of EMI, so internal cards serve a niche few really care for.

>>61136286
>and whats your experience with it?
My brother bought some fancy Asus card a few years ago and I remember he always had a slight hum coming out of his speakers that seemed to increase when the load increased like scrolling down web pages etc.

>>61136310
Only true if the implementation is good, the codecs themselves are all pretty good - but how well it's isolated from the rest of the motheroard is a per-board thing.
That article uses a Asus Rampage III Formula.

The same could not be said about a cheapo $50 mainboard.

I use one for dolby live because my receiver only supports digital surround input. Also I recently put one in a pc I build for a friend because it was cheaper to get an analog surround soundcard + motherboard then a motherboard with analog surround ports.

>>61136410
I'll give you that. That's why I wrote "for listening".

>>61136310
/thread

Dedicated soundcards still make sense if you need ASIO drivers or lots of I/O, but for most people integrated is good enough.

those were the days

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_A1GNx0M9M

>>61136286
>>61136310
Also most of the best USB DAC use C-Media chips.
C-Media was once upon a time ridiculed for making 'shitty' (8330 was actually awesome) SB16 clones and being used as on-board audio by the likes of PCCHIPS, quite often coupled with a shitty SiS chipset and onboard video.

>>61136286

op your post was shit... you talked nothing about technology and used a bunch of corporate brands and marketing words that mean jack fucking shit

ill cut through all of it and give you a short answer

no

because 2009 there might of been some dsp asics and positional audio codec intelectual property different companies were trying to push

now its all been abstracted and commodified with object audio formats and a few other niches i wont get into (sperical harmonics)

second in terms of sound quality it all down to the power supply and how clean the power quality is and powering off the mobo is just noisy as fuck

thirdly i dont care for sample rate but 24bit depth is the shit, i can hear a vast improvent over dithered and noise shaped 16 bit... 24bit is pretty standard these days wasnt back then

fourthly might of helped with the audio overhead on weak processors back then not so much now

tldr: pci audio cards it was gaymen thing to get gaymin bucks totally divorced from the rest of the audio community - standard aguments not apply - dont nit pick

>>61136511
>powering off the mobo is just noisy as fuck
>24bit depth is the shit, i can hear a vast improvent over dithered and noise shaped 16 bit

(You)

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>>61136286

soundblaster cards made all the difference this is from pentium 3 era, had a xonar dx for a long time then stx 2

also considered a great investment even as the onboard audio vastly improved

considering audiophilia price range op amp rolling could be relevant for a comeback but audio will always stay somewhat of a niche market

>>61136511
You're missing one aspect though - Vista.
The removal of true kernel audio killed vidya effects like EAX, so there was no reason to have a one audio processor over another, it was all down to implementation on the board.

Now most every decent motherboard has seperate layers for left and right, isolated grounds, a completely isolated area from the rest of the motherboard, quality caps, etc - there is most nothing an pci/pci-e card could provide that onboard could not outside more ports (and a modern implementation is pushing ~14ch ports at once)

External can provide less interference for silly audiophiles, portability across systems and more ports, but that's about it.

>>61136286
There's little reason. Only good if you need the amplification and don't want external options.

Fuck soundblaster.
>>61136570
>soundblaster cards made all the difference this is from pentium 3 era, had a xonar dx for a long time then stx 2
You don't know what you're talking about kid.

>>61136286
A really good sound card can be had in the range of 100-150bux
Where is the problem? Just buy one if you want one.
I always do.
It's not like I'm paying thousands for pixie dust audiophile bs, its just an audio processor on a board with some amplifiers and usually better grade caps.
Made up stigma imo.

I like my sound card mainly for two reasons
1. The ports emit light, f.e from the headphone one there's green light. Makes it easy to see when it's dark.
2. I've used it on a few mobos, and on a few of them I would get noises when I scrolled or so if I used the onboard sound, never with the dedicated sound card.
It's just PCI though, so I'll probably have to ditch it when I go for AM4... Not sure if I will notice worse sound quality then, don't expect to, but I will miss those lighted ports...

>>61136811

I was a kid back then, aureal tech were the first in 3d positioning, turtle beach montego card then sb came out with sb live and eax then wrote a wrapper for a3d so aureal is the legit innovator if that's what you're referring to

>>61137022
>aureal tech were the first in 3d positioning
They weren't. Rest of you sentence makes no sense.

Pre P4 if you wanted sound period that was't a PC speaker you needed a sound card or midi interface.

>>61136286
I use one because my MoBo's sound is broken.

>>61136286
They have never gone anywhere.

They never were a normie thing.

>>61137067
Wrong.
Plenty of Slot-1 boards had onboard audio.
Pre Late P3/Athlon you needed a NIC though.

>>61137166
Show me a single slot 1 mobo pre 2000 with onboard audio.

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>>61136286
The age of the pcie soundcard is over, you're just in time for the age of pcie audio coprocessors.

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>>61136310
>faggot namefag
>shit article
Makes sense.
>>61136286
The soundcards arent too popular because people buy external DACs for some reason. Perhaps because of niggers like you telling them shit you have no idea about.

Having a soundcard (20$ XonarDG) is pretty much the same experience as having a DAC but inside the case.

It has enough power to drive high impedance headphones without an AMP
It has WAY LESS noise/interference
Higher power amp provides better lows

Before i got myself a Xonar DG i was suffering bacground noise and realtec piece of shit just couldnt run the headphones loud enogh.
The best 20$ ever spent, no noise, redundant power, higher quality sound reproduction because no nouse and enough piwer for lows.

The only reason you dont have a soundcard is because youre a dumb nig/g/er and listened to other nig/g/ers.

Screencap this post.

>>61136286
Hard to fathom why anyone would use anything but optical out to a separate receiver.

>>61137192
>$900 pcie dongle for your massively overpriced plugins
fuck UAD, seriously

I don't think so. Sound cards used to have a real purpose, the CPU was just too slow to mix multiple sound channels and do other things (run a web browser, a game, etc) at the same time. Integrated sound cards were garbage because all the mixing was done in the driver and you essentially had a single output channel.

But sound hasn't really advanced since then. CPUs have gotten orders of magnitude faster but the workload of sound has remained more or less the same. So everything now is an "integrated sound card," from the integrated sound on your motherboard to the sound on your video card via HDMI. There's just no need for dedicated sound hardware anymore.

>>61136286
is there a reason they disapeared?

I used a Xonar for a long time.

It had really good shielding and was totally noiseless otherwise, as well as nice mic audio quality with it's filtering shenanigans even on a normie-tier headset mic.

The amp was okay and I could knock things off of the cabinets in my neighbor's house without distortion (Good speakers.) but it wasn't really necessary.

9:10 onboard is good enough. Head phone quality can matter quite a bit, though, and obviously the myraid of OS issues (Windows capping max volume, sound enhancements, mic noise, bass/treble imbalances, the entire linux sound subsystem...)

>>61137227
>There's just no need for dedicated sound hardware anymore.

Try and plug some 64 Ohm phones into your shit

>>61137166
To help you out kid since I'm sure nothing is showing up on a google for you. Onboard audio didn't happen till 2000s when the P4 came out. Later P3 mobos had different solutions.

Late k6 mobos had on board audio. Those came out in 98/99 and I think were the first consumer mobos with audio on board.

This excludes proprietary audio cards that some mobos had.

>>61137218
Nah, the plugins are worth it for what they do and at the very least having consistent processing times for everything justifies the cost.

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>>61137176
Boom.
It's AT format, so no rear panel outside of 5pin DIN for AT keyboard.
Output is all via headers, but you can see the ESS 1869 in the lower right corner.

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>>61137192

The soundblaster AE-5 coming in July looks good

>>61136310
lmao what? I can tell the difference with my 200$ headphones. Realtek cant drive them for shit

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I don't think so. External DAC/Amps are basically sound cards and not only are they really popular if you look at the battlestation threads here and the subreddits.
They're external of the computer which helps for isolation and can provide a ton of power if they're not USB powered.
That said I think people under estimate onboard audio. I have a gaymen z170 motherboard that I got for $160 and it came with a p400 case. The onboard is superior to my $99 dragonfly black. Absolutely no static or background noise, it's very fucking impressive for motherboard audio.
I see no place for dedicated PCI-E sound cards. It's either good on board or external dac/amp($60-100ish)

>>61136310
music producing anon here. some things to note
>music producer of 11 years/12 years of experience
>never heard or cared about flac
>can hear the hear the difference between 128 point sync and 512 point sync and 24bit wav only when comparing
and what i have to say is this. i can tell if i have a good sound card or not, in particular i had some $1000 lenovo ideapad which had great sound, my current pc is a very low end 5-6 year old pc and i hate the sound drivers on it, everything sounds compressed to death like there is no room for sound, and wonky in general, all of my external windows and internal daw settings are where they should be but it still sounds like trash.
long story short there is definetely a difference and i feel like bad sound cards/drivers will increase ear fatigue by a huge margin

I'm thinking a good use for soundcards these days would be for dedicated media players that hook to some outlandish sound system. I dunno, I'm just rambling.

>>61137284
Ya that needs a proprietary card...

>>61137098
this

>>61137192
Not worth the price, don't buy those meme shits.
You can literally use a FPGA or DSP.

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>>61137342
No, it doesn't kiddo.

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>>61136286
>tfw I have one of those soundcards in my PC RIGHT NOW

My only regret is that Auzentech went bankrupt and now I have to go and look for a custom driver on an obscure website to get it working properly. I think it's still missing some functionality without the official software, though it's not like I ever used that in the first place.
I never considered it a bad investment either, though it is completely overkill for my needs. I could just as well have gone with something cheaper and really have gotten the same out of it since I run S-PDIF from it into my AV receiver, but most of the cheaper (and even most of the more expensive) options at the time were all PCI based.
Since PCI is just about gone now, having a PCI-e card with the connectivity options I need is nice.

Of course, futureproofing isn't why I bought it back then. I just needed the digital output and chose the Bravura because I was young and dumb, had money to spend, and I found it looked nicer than the rest. Still nice to have though, S-PDIF is still found on very few motherboards even today. At least it's not something I want to specifically choose my next motherboard by.

>>61137364
>Not worth the price.
>Accurately replaces hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of vintage gear.
Have you even touched an 1176 in your entire life?

>>61137383
You may want to read the manual kiddo.

>>61137444
It's a meme since other hardware can do the same shit, but also do other functions.

It's literally a Console vs. PC type argument.
You are advocating locked down proprietary single use hardware.
The other poster is advocating you just do the same with commodity FPGAs.

>>61137098
t. underage fag

Early PC motherboards didn't have audio at all and it's only in the last 5-10 years that onboard audio has started to be good. Before that, soundcards were pretty much a requirement if you wanted decent audio.

>>61137526
You might want to...
The mainboard has an ESS1869 onboard.
I know this, not just from looking at it but owning a PCCHIPs mainboard with a Celeron 333.
Not that board, I had a 440BX chipset with an onboard SiS6326AGP.
>As an aside that CPU was pretty good at 450mhz.

>>61137628
yeah, even in 2005 most onboard audio was still shit. there were massive improvements in onboard sound quality in the last decade. now if you don't have decent headphones or speakers you can use onboard and not tell the difference. if you get something that needs a lot of power to drive or is just really good, then you can get a benefit with a sound card or external DAC.

>>61137307
yeah, i'm not sure how this test was conducted, but this sounds bad af. there is a noticeable difference between onboard sound and offboard with even an $100 pair of headphones (ATH-M50), even on a computer built in December 2016 (e.g. modern mobo).

>>61137698
You need proprietary shit for it. A single or even handful of obscure mobos doesn't change the fact that as a whole no slot 1 mobo has on board sound till the 2000s

>>61137307
>>61137703
>currency ($) after the vlaue
> bad af
The test was done by people who aren't 12 years old.

>>61137732
>somebody makes a single typo
>LOL YOU'RE 12
cool ad hominem bro
Toms is relatively shit as a review site. they even concede on the last page that the realtek is only "near-fi". I don't know how they can make the claim that the audio codec couldn't be "reliably distinguished". they admit that the testing methodology had issues on volume levels for the realtek at different point which was corrected mid-test, invalidating all of the results.

again, I think that onboard sound has come a tremendous way, and most people aren't going to notice a difference. but with the right headphones or speakers and sufficient quality media (which I would concede the track types listed by Toms appear to be), it should be easy to distinguish.

and I'm not a "cable risers" guy who thinks you should get $1,000 cables farted on by pixies. I think you can spend less than $100 on a soundcard and get massive improvement and anything beyond that is incremental, just like I think ~$100 is the bang for the buck on headphones.

but I think tom's methodology of playing "try to guess the chip" is a distraction. they should have done different runs and then just asked notes on the audio quality.

the biggest flaw (which toms admits) is that they did not test low impedance headphones, which integrated sound is going to have an extremely difficult time driving.

>>61137827
Is it your phone that makes your sentence structure like that or do you have some mental condition?

>>61137338
Any AV receiver made in the last decade has HDMI or at least optical input that works perfectly with any GPU or integrated sound card

>>61136310
You don't understand, pleb. My ears have developed a range of hearing beyond the average mortal. OF COURSE if you just let some random nobodies try to tell the difference, their inferior aural palate won't be able to discern the difference. Such is the blessing and the curse of the audiophile.

>>61137920
Different people do actually have different hearing ranges.

>>61137861

are you going to discuss the subject or just keep proving you wish it would rain cocks right into your mouth

>>61137968
If you'd like to discuss the topic in a format that isn't eye cancer sure.

>>61137986

ok patch together an RFC for what you quantify isnt eye cancer on 4chan and we'll all just keep talking while you fuck off

>>61137966
Naturally. And it just so happens to be those who spend the most money on audio equipment have the best hearing.

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>>61136310

I think someone needs to consult with an otorhinolaryngologist.

>>61136286
Still using a C-media 8738
it sucks on Linux distros but the integrated ones aren't better either.

Would appreciate some recommendation if someone knows a soundcard which works properly(and filters low-frequency for 5.1 speakers without hacking configs)

>>61136318
This

>>61138125
I'm not saying that, I'm saying 2 different people will have 2 different frequency response curves.

>>61136286

Nope, the era of internal sound cards is pretty much over.

External DACs are the future. Thunderbolt removes the latency issues with USB.

>>61137255
>onboard audio didn't happen until the 2000s

u wot m8

I had a Pentium MMX system in 1996 with unbelievably shitty c-media audio on the motherboard that would buzz whenever I moved the mouse.

>>61137716
Niger even socket 5 systems with onboard were a common thing in the mid to late 90s

>>61137332
if you are a "music producer" you wouldnt take some shitty laptop audio with 1hr latency so btfo...

>>61138538
ya but let's say consuming media is the only reason you want a better audio solution than onboard there is literally no reason to take a external dac if there are shielded internal solutions that can basically output the same quality without taking up space on the desk or somewhere else?

The essence stx is a perfect example, the shield does an awesome job at negating noise and jitter and honestly equipped with LME49720 i haven't heard a better external dac in the same price range.

In the external case you could also use spdif instead of thunderbolt

>>61138613
>>61138677
>common
Ok kiddos/

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>>61137628
>t. underage fag
How ironic, considering you look like a underage fag now.

No, sound cards where never a normie thing, someone with a 486 probably didn't play with it or even know it deeply enough to get or have a sound card for it.
Someone who already built their own computer and knew how it worked and played on it, wasn't a normie.
For a slight time you could get a pre build with a sound card, but mostly normies got used to sound on their computers when they started coming on board.

>>61137067
Holy shit you're dumb as fuck.
It made me cringe and laugh so hard.

>>61137176
>t. 16 year old
you are like the autistic fucks in /vr/ who think and act they are wintel gods but actually they don't know shit

>>61139009
>No, sound cards where never a normie thing
Not him but you seem to be ignorant that you needed a dvd decoder or if you had a fast CPU it was still highly recommended. Was probably the main reason the Live cards sold so well.
>>61139040
>>61139072
>>61139009
>normie
>cringe
>t.
>wintel
K, kids.

>>61136310
Mobos have better dacs but I don't think having a dedicated high quality dac card to be bad. It's not like this shit is super expensive. I have one sb zx I paid 100$ years ago and I keep carrying it to new builds. My live card survived till w7 from p3

>>61136880
Exactly. It's not a monster price tag, they can last 4-5 years til no more drivers, and you end with better dacs and amp.
Sometime I will try the integrated dac on my Mobo never really tried it, my card is 4 years old.

>>61137332
> ear fatigue by a huge margin
Agree with that. Probably the reason is phase distotion on low-level sound cards.

>>61138967
>common
Yes, like in every poverty pre-built, which was the majority of sales.

>calling everyone kids while fabricating history he knows nothing about
Spotted the actual child. You're probably the same fag that was butthurt about the gotek floppy emulator on vr like a week ago.

>>61139472
Oh hey it's the paki who has a the massive hate boner against gotek. Small world.

>>61139521
Pretty sure it was compensating alternate history kid that was mad about the gotek

>>61139114
>thinking wintel or normie are kid terms
I got some bad news for you Mr.I'mAoldFagRlly-but-IuseKidUnIronically

>>61139558
Ya you. I brought up how a gotek was useful for booting win98 from a usb and you lost your shit and rent on a rant about it being terrible.

>>61139521
He's not me, faggot. You really are an idiot.
I also never said I hate Gotek, I said for 99% of use cases it's useless.

We also all know how you throw around "kid" unironically, really makes one think.
>inb4 he's an autistic 45 year old faggot with no life or a teen with autism

We love making fun of you, but please, stick to /vr/, it's the autism containment board.

>>61139615
Ok kid. Just ignore that 99% of prebuilds had some kind of sound card.

>>61138967
>He thinks you can't use 3 sound cards on anything newer then a 486
>He dosen't know about Slot 1 motherboards and how common on board audio was with those

Topkek.
Did you also see the Vogons thread about your retardation, even Phil posted.

>>61136310
>$2
>integrated

What? How does it have an individual price if it's integrated? Or do they mean from the manufacturer, in which case even high end DACs use $4 DAC chips

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>>61139632
I haven't said anything about sound cards or pre builds. I literary lurked until I saw your post about "Gotek hate" and knew you though it was actually me.
It must be hard living with autism, I also see I hit a nail on the head with something I said how you went all pussy and quiet. Sorry.

>>61139639
>topkek
Oh no... this kid again.
>Did you also see the Vogons thread about your retardation, even Phil posted.
Do give a link so I can screencap there retardation. You're probably just making shit up though.

>>61139664
Man you're stalking for me. Pretty funny kid.

>>61139676
>>topkek
>Oh no... this kid again.
>on /g/
>doesn't use topkek
Pls anon >>>/vr/

>>61136286
All my audio gets piped over HDMI to a receiver that handles the DAC process.

Though I probably still can't hear the difference between DACs, requiring only a single cable to pipe multichannel surround sound audio with no performance impact on the main PC is pretty nice.

>>61139691
Sorry for not surrendering to your memes yet. Maybe soon I'll start calling everyone a "cuck" and ending my sentences with meme.

I still want that link btw.

>>61139689
That would be funny, if you would have mentioned you are on /g/, but no, I was the one who said that he browses /g/ and you where the one accusing a random anon of being me.
Seems like it's you who can't get over something.

Btw, /g/ ain't that tech illiterate as /vr/ is, your shit will be laughed at and ignored quite easily here, as we know how simple minded you are on "your field".

>>61139710
>I still want that link btw.
You can't find it yourself?
I won't give it to you, for all I know about Vogons, you pretty much fit the bill for being an autistic mod.

>>61138613
This, I have three slot 1 boards, all have a gameport and audio in/out

>>61139716
I rarely post here anymore because /g/ is that tech illiterate. Just look at the amount of phone, amd, and /csg/ threads.
>>61139738
Made it up as I thought.

>>61138967
>>61139114
>>61139632
>kid
I really hope you won't come to any /retro/ threads

>>61139786
On /g/? Those are a cancer pit. Believe me I stay away.

>>61139760
>/g/ is that tech illiterate
>implying /vr/ isn't tech illiterate and autism center

>amd
>says he's a oldfag
>talks about AMD like it's a bad thing

I have an stx I wouldn't call my self an audiophile or anything but I can tell a difference it isn't placebo it is genuinely better and so is recording.

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>>61139803
I'm glad, you and Justin can just sit in /vr/ retro computing threads.
Oh wait, those aren't a thing anymore, because all the cancer and autism.

Reminder that the ASUS STX can randomly blast your headphones with an ear defening sound.

>>61139806
/vr/ is a lot better. At the very least there aren't phone threads.

AMD had its moment with Athlon in the 2000s. Not much past that. The amount of shilling today for AMD is out of control when Intel has been ontop for what? The last 10 years at least?
>>61139829
They pop up from time to time. It's good to space them out. keeps cancer like you to a minimum.

>>61136355
why tho
what's wrong with better audio?
why do you hate your ears?

>>61136376
BLACKED

>>61136286
I'm still waiting for some mainstream sound shader tech. Like VST's but better.

>>61139853
>keeps cancer like you to a minimum.
>says the tech illiterate
Oh the irony.

>>61139853
>/vr/ is a lot better.
For someone who is not very tech savvy (you), I'm sure it's a safer place.

>At the very least there aren't phone threads.
>threads related to technology on a technology board
Does this produce buttpain in you?

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>>61141146
Not him but I actually used to be the main OP for quite a while some years ago for /vr/ computer threads, anons like him were the ones who shit the place up, it's sad to see they actually didn't even understand that.

>>61141146
>>61141228
I'm seeing the irony frogposter.

I remember that punk from vr PC threads. Doesn't know Jack shit about PC hardware before 2005 and is constantly trying to imply he's older than everyone else when he's clearly some teenybopper on summer break or some shit. It's not just about sound cards either. He was trying his damndest to convince people that there was no such thing as hardware conflicts with early plug and play a while back.

>>61137527
Are there libraries/pre-written code for FPGA boards that achieve the same thing as those cards? If not, sure it's possible but coding VHDL/verilog is a very slow process. Even with systemC it's still a fucking drag.

>>61143202
It's funny how you ignore that more 3 anons telling you you're an idiot not counting me. But since I called you kid it stung.

>>61137284

nice board design

>>61136315

2 dollar chinese trash in a shiny 10 dollar case aka 'the head-fi special'

>>61143453
I didn't even talk to you. You were just an incredible dumbass and a terrible liar.

>>61143569
Thread is archived kiddo. Sorry your age was shown in that thread.

#soundcards4lyfe
#onboardnever

>>61143615
You're trying too hard. It's one thing scrolling past your bullshit on /vr/ but you just had to bring your cancer to /g/.

>>61144322
Sad

>>61136286

Right after UART 16550A expansion cards come back, I expect.

>>61136575
>Vista
Multiplatformism killed EAX more than VIsta did. You could still get EAX effects and hardware acceleration in Vista with OpenAL (or using a wrapper). The fact is developers dropped it because consoles didn't support it, and consoles are more important money makers for publishers than PC gaming is.

>>61137201
Nobody is gonna screencap this post.

deluded audiophile blown the fuck out

I use a sound card because I don't want the latency of an external USB DAC and have a fuckhueg case anyway.

I use a non-integrated DAC because I want clean EQ and EMI shielding. Onboard audio can distort if you have heavy EQ curves.

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>>61136310
>Audiophiles in a nutshell

>>61137176

Fucking retard, onboard audio has been a thing since Pentium 1 and probably even before that. I'm pretty sure you could find Compaq 486 motherboards with onboard audio.

>>61136286

no because you're adding noise by having a connection at the PCI port

the best sound will always be the on-board audio jacks at the back of the mobo

>>61144886
I don't know who I hate more; Audiophools or tech-illiterates like you who make fun of audiophools. It's hard to pick.

>>61136478
Exactly what i was thinking of. As a kid i'd just choose the one that sounded most best, like AWE64 or whatever.

>>61139639

>Did you also see the Vogons thread about your retardation, even Phil posted.

I'd like to see that.

In most cases the onboard audio suffices. I own a Xonar STX, mostly because of the integrated DAC. It helps with high ohm headphones. If you don't own them you can go with the onboard sound.

>>61145131
I'm sorry If I made you mad lmao

>>61137319
This
Got my DT990pro hooked up to my AX370 gaming 5 board
Works just fine
My old piece of shit MSI 970 gaming could also drive them well (audio was the only redeeming quality of that board)
But my laptop has a garbage soundcard, its extremely noticeable even with cheap headphones

I had to get used Xonar DGX because my MSI GTX970 was interfering with my onboard audio on my 6 year old AsRock motherboard (noise coming out of speakers depending on fps of the game played, not just coil whine).

realtek's 1150s and up are good enough, but the problem is still down to execution. I've seen some newer 1220 implementations in high end boards 270 mobos that are actually much worse than the one in my now aging z87, which at the time had one of the better implementations.

>>61145205
You did. Now fuck off back to /v/ where tech-illiterates should stay.

>>61137201
Can drive what? 250 ohm headphones? DT990 pro sound like someone is whispering. Sound cards with maybe the exception of asus xonar ST/STX don't have enough power to handle power dependent headphones. Sure for 32ohm easy to drive headphones like M50x they are fine. There are plenty 100$ DACs (not usb powered) that blow the fuck out of most sound cards. Monoprice DAC cost 80$ and have legit 900mw in 32 ohms. It can power anything you don't have to think twice if you get new headphones. For that alone it is worth it.

>>61136310
>http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/high-end-pc-audio,3733.html
>So TL;DR we gave a bunch of retards headphones to listen to the difference and they didn't notice a difference so nobody will
>Stupid audiophools lmao
Obviously these stupidly priced retard dacs are not going to improve shit but going from crappy onboard sound to literally any DAC AMP you will notice a difference

>>61138938
Because when you upgrade you don't have to think what the mobo layout or how many slots you GPU take. Also if you ever switch to ITX you have to shove your STX in your ass because that is the only place it cant fit.

>>61145225
You really aren't powering those headphones fully
just get a cheapo schiit thingy
What x370 board you got? I have the crosshair vi and the audio is meh

>>61137201
>Falcon
>Treating him like a generic namefag
How summer are you?

>>61145244
>assmad audiofool

>>61145225
>>61145724

same have a deluxe board with top audio and it's meh as far as keeping everything neutral and flat eq'd

uboth get an stx 2 and call it a day, uni xonar drivers

optional replace the opamps with 2x muses02 and a muses01 in the io

also drive some lsr305 or 308s

>>61145762
get his dick out of your mouth before you post

>>61136286
>AOpen AX4B 533 Tube
Will onboard tube amps ever make a comeback?

>>61145131
>I don't know who I hate more
Hating yourself, or dad is the only correct answer. Or am I just projecting?

>>61136286
Well maybe if a new sound format comes out that simulates the instruments in real time or some VR shit that requires crazy real time signal processing

>>61136286
I bought a new ryzen system and even though it's a high-end ax370 board (gigabyte k7) the sound card on it is absolutely shit compared to my essence stx. I immediately noticed my music didn't sound very good so I had to plug it back in.

I'm not sure why everyone keeps shilling internal(motherboard soundcards as being just as good as a PCI one.

>>61137284

I owned this board, threw it in an old AT case and overclocked a celeron with a TNT2 Pro.

People were shocked it ran unreal tournament

fucking memories

>>61146081
Sour grapes
People buy computers and cheap headphones with cheap onboard audio, and get incredibly upset over people who buy good headphones with external audio. Since they don't have the money or don't want to spend the money it becomes "YOU CAN'T TELL THE DIFFERENCE ANYWAY AUDIOFOOLS"

>>61146157
And then double blind tests demonstrate that they can't.

>>61136376

Someone has to teach the kid touchdown dances.

>>61146209
>We can't tell the difference so you can't either

>>61146325
Special ears, or placebo?

>>61146357
>We tested with a couple people and they didn't hear a difference so you won't either
>Just tell everyone they are stupid or it's a placebo
>sour grapes

>>61136310
i dunno about today's mobo sound but my 2009 pc makes lots of noise connected to my amp. That noise the processor makes when a process is running.

>>61146410
>sour grapes
Scientists are just a bunch of dumb assholes, so buy this $65000 sennshit orifice goy. Or are you too poor?

>>61147060
>scientists
>literally just some dudes they picked from around the office

>>61136286
90% of people still believe that if you open the side panel of your computer you """void the warranty""". so no. they wont

>>61136310
>http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/high-end-pc-audio,3733.html
>The tests aren't perfect, and we don't claim they are. They cannot be generalized beyond the specific cases we tested, and we don't claim they can be. Nevertheless, we hope you'll find them interesting within the scope of their applicability.
>Of course, we also have to acknowledge our own shortcomings and the limits of these tests; neither is perfect. We are audio amateurs, not audio professionals. However, we've tried to create the best possible tests, documenting each and every step along the way so that others can conduct their own experiment and form their own opinion. If you see a way to improve upon our process, we welcome this and look forward to seeing your results, too.

>Have USB gaymen headset (Logitech G35)
>Works bretty gud at first
>Eventually fucks up on its own (took care of it, yet the cable and then the plastic case both committed rm -rf)
>Get another headset (Razer Kraken, the second shitty headphones I see the most today after Beats)
>Works OK, but absolutely no volume control on the headset itself
>Headset was so sensitive I had to put Winblows volume to something like 15 or 20
>Any whisper or footstep sounded like anal demons spitting in my ears at 2 kbps
>Headset committed rm -rf within two years (G35 lasted 5 years before it fully died)
>Decide to go analog
>Get a Steelseries crap, plug it to my jack ports (motherboard audio chip)
>Some magnetic induction sorcery happens
>Everything coming out of the headphone output also goes to the mic input
>People on Skype could literally hear when I listened to music or watched a video
>Get an external DAC (Fiio e10k), plug headphones to it
>No more bullshit, works F L A W L E S S L Y
>Crystal clear whispers and footsteps

Sound cards are obsolete as fuck. Analog headphones with an external DAC is the way to go.

>>61143469
Schiit makes all their own gear in the USA.

No, they are a meme for audiofools

>>61147949

schiit are like corsair and cryorig.
>It's all hype

>>61148078
I'd say their higher end tier stuff is, but the magni/modi and fulla 2 are well priced and perform well for that price. It's nice gear. No complaints.

>>61136286
They're completely pointless unless you need multiple high quality inputs. Any good usb DAC will do you for home needs.

>>61136286
>>61136310
>LOL AUDIOPHOOLS

we have this thread once a week, how does it still get this many responses?

>summer

>>61143469
MADE IN THE USA

>>61137383
>10/10

>>61148571
Summerfags are usually underage and have no job so the concept of an external DAC and decent sounding headphones makes them feel uncomfortable and inferior, so they make shit-tier threads like this bashing enthusiast groups to feel better about being the poor/useless grunts of late stage capitalism and having shit music taste like most cringy underage turboautists.

No.

External is superior because of isolation.
Plus the built in shit your computer comes with is good enough.

>>61148579
Also all parts sourced from manufacturers in the USA.

Beats the fiio and smsl chinkshit amps.

>>61136376
Yup. https://gizmodo.com/363154/audiophile-deathmatch-monster-cables-vs-a-coat-hanger

>>61138187
Politifact is literally fake news

>>61138187
This.
I use the OBJECTIVE2+ODAC(250 bucks) and it sounds totally different from my z270 motherboard audio.
It sounds clearer at higher volumes and the highs are lot more defined than my mobo audio(Realtek ALC1220).

While sound cards won't ever recap their former popularity and necessity in their current form, there still is a market and utility for them. Onboard motherboard audio still is far away from being close to "audiophile" quality, even on the best motherboards out there. External solutions can certainly work, but they are often reliant on USB (which can be laggy), can be over reliant on Windows, can be quite expensive, and can be messy (either by needing a daisy chain of devices like separate DACs and amps, or just creating clutter).

Internal sound cards can be competitive if they offer an all-in-one solution that has high performance and the price is competitive.

Someone mentioned a new Creative sound card, and while we will have to wait for the reviews to see for sure, the basic specs on the XAE5 make it look pretty damn competitive. I mean, a 32 bit ESS Sabre DAC with individual amplification for each channel plus some other goodies for $150 is stiff competition to a lot of the more common external solutions I see talked about.

Whether it succeeds or not, I would like internal sound cards to continue to come out every years to stay up to date with things, even if it stays a pretty niche thing.

i still use my creative xfi card. it was such an improvement from my on board sound from the prebuilt i purchased in 2008. funny my current board has 7.1/spdif but i still love to install my sound card on every new build

>>61144886
whats a matter with him?

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>>61136355
>fucking audiophiles need to be shot
audiophiles didn't invent the sound card meme. they used to be used for actual work, and in those cases similar devices are still very useful when you have complicated audio setups for say recording. the mobo companies got a hold of it and made it part of the gamer meme tech trend. also "alternative" audio software systems that were all the rage in 90s games sometimes relied on support from audio cards. then everyone realized it doesn't matter since it can all be done in software using on-board hardware and in 99% of cases it all ends up stereo in the end anyways. how many games even have support for surround sound anymore? even though it would be very immersive for first-person games.

>>61136286
Because they're built into the motherboard. You don't still buy dedicated USB 2.0 cards do you?

>>61137201
a soundcard is just a shittier version of an external dac/amp unless you're using it as an actual interface. spec for spec in terms of actual audio quality an external will be cheaper or better. also putting any analog audio component inside a case full of noise-causing shit is a bad idea.

>>61147450
Real scientific studies have been done before. Results = audiophiles are fucking retarded as fuck.

>>61137319
>The onboard is superior to my $99 dragonfly black
probably because phone dac/amps are a clusterfuck currently. they all have some flaw. either they get hot, or the sound is not neutral, or they have software problems with devices, or they draw too much power. you can get ones that you have to charge but then you're really talking a different class of addon with added bulk that people don't want. with a desktop powering through USB is fine, it's consistent and there is minimal size restrictions. on mobile a good dac/amp draws as little power as possible so as to not drain your battery, though that also results in less power for your headphones, so at that point you're just using it to clean up the phone audio.

>>61149340
>Real scientific studies have been done before.
No they haven't

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>>61137332
Did you try setting the Environment to Large Hall?

>>61149134
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L34S4Tt1EuQ

>>61139009
>sound cards where never a normie thing, someone with a 486 probably didn't play with it or even know it deeply enough to get or have a sound card for it.

Sound cards have been "normie" since the 386.
The fucking Adlib card and Sound Blaster Pro sold literal millions.

>>61150725
>No they haven't
Ugh Yes they have.

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>>61150758
Didn't know this was a YLYL thread

>>61136310
>btw we used beats to check this

>>61136286
Might have already been mentioned before, but it's better to have an external one to prevent noise from all the other components, since the audio is analog.

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>>61151089
>ugh
Fuck off to Tumblr

Is it worth buying fiio e10k as an external sound card for my laptop? Heard many good opinions, but want to know if the difference is really noticable or is it a meme.

I used to sell audio amplifiers on ebay that were pretty much a generic machined allow casing from an amazon shop and inside some cheap circuitry from China that was used in alot of handheld radio boomboxes in the 90s and onwards. Took a 9v battery, plug it between your headphones and your mp3 played/phone/whatever.

Advertised it as used by john lennon, elton john and other musicians for awhile. People bought them up like hot cakes we were pushing out 50 units a week which was alot since they were hand assembled and it was just 3 people doing it all. each unit cost around $4 to make and we were selling them for 180 to 220 a pop. It all came to an end when PayPal froze our account and ebay shut us down for fraudulent advertisement.

I miss the old days of the internet

>>61137201
>>>/pol/
How's summer going, newfag?

>>61152436
we should set up more traps to kill off the drunk drivers

>>61152582
that was fake/misreported
they did paint over it, but nobody crashed into it

>>61152453
What headphones do you have? e10k is pretty shit, it's only good as a replacement for very shitty sources. It's amp is pretty underwhelming in terms of power, and that's what actually matters. On the other hand if your headphones are not power hungry it doesn't matter. And for that matter if your headphones are not power hungry then you will only need external dac/amp if you can hear audible interferences (for instance buzzing coming from headphones when no music is playing). If there is one thing in this shitty "test" falcon posted, it's the fact that there is actually very little difference between DACs alone. You pay for additional functionality (lamps, op amps, outputs etc), less interference and more powerful amp - which is 90% of the reason why you should ever consider dac/amp.

>>61136420
His point still stands. The chip doesn't matter fuck-all. Reducing interference is a much bigger potential gain in quality then these chips could ever do themselves.

>>61143202
>that there was no such thing as hardware conflicts with early plug and play a while back.
[TRIGGERING INTENSIFYING]

>>61149134
Oh. My. Goodness! My senses feel assaulted … as would my wallet, if I had had to pay for these. With every smack of the snare and blare of a trumpet my eyes wince in pain. Fast transient edges are transformed into indiscriminate micro-bursts of tizz. Likewise, low notes are powerful, but have lost all definition as they are reduced to a bloated blur. The mid-range seems like it could be pretty good, but I hear it as so disconnected from all else that I could hardly keep track of what’s what in the confused aural picture. I’ve heard worse headphones before, but for $2749 these have got to be the worst price/performance headphones I’ve ever experienced.

Of course, maybe I just don’t get Ultrasone’s S-Logic.

>>61152691
Im considering buying somic v2 or other open headphones with not that much resistance. So fiio e10k is a meme after all? The reviews treat it like second coming of christ in budget segment. I would like to up my audio game, but im a poorfag, so 160 dollars is all i can offer atm. Any recommendation on gear for listening to music on laptop?

Audigy 2 ZS

that fucking card was never going to die

at some point i found modded drivers, that would make it into a Audigy 4, let you get all the latest features and drivers.

>>61153643
I have this also. If you're having problems connecting the card, disable on board audio and unplug other irrelevant systems. The card has only limited PCI number space which it can work in.

And holy fuck you retards haven't mentioned cmss-3d. No on board audio comes even close. OK maybe SupremeFx. Just fucking buy an old Creative card with 10$, install daniel_k's driver package and enjoy.

>>61154120
Oh and after you've installed the card everything can be enabled again.