/dpt/ - Daily Programming Thread

>>61073559
C++ is the most powerful programming language.

C++ is the liquid feces that comes out of your ass after eating spicy food that expired a month ago.

how do i make it more qt

"Choose an option" println
"1. Rock" println
"2. Paper" println
"3. Scissors" println

rand 3 %
getln 1 -
- 3 %
dup 0 = "You have tied!" "" ifelse swap
dup 1 = "You have lost!" "" ifelse swap
2 = "You have won!" "" ifelse swap
print print println

C++ is for indian brainlets that can't use C.

>>61073575
Shit

Killing myself because the network and OS module at Uni is way over my head.

Is that thing male or female?

>>61073573
13 rupees and a plate of curry has been deposited to your Microsoft Visual C++ shilling account, pajeet. Thanks for your service and keep doing the needful.

>>61073591
Yes

>>61073575
Garbage

>>61073559
Or a rusty trombone eh Chelsea?
Eh?

>>61073614
Fuck off

>>61073640
i figured it out anyway lol have fun with your rust faggotry

>>61073614
brainlet

>>61073653
nerd

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Why c-fags and rustfags fighting each other instead both converting their userbases to python?

>>61073666
>>61073676
trolled hard, made you go through the inconvenience of reposting it

Both C and Rust are not very good.

>>61073692
Crust is pretty good tho

>>61073700
So is RustC

>>61073668
stop posting

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>>61073666

Anyone here played Shenzhen.IO?

>>61073825
>>>/v/

>>61073831
Great shitposting, faggot

>>61073831
shut up

>>61073825
Nonfree

I have difficulties understand algorithms I wrote 1 month ago.

I have to slowly work through like if someone else wrote it


is this normal?

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how do i make sense of this? i'm expecting it to do (i << 1) + (j << 4) + 8 but all i see is two adds and a mov?

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>>61073825
It's fun.

>>61073913
>is this normal
Yes. This is why you structure your code well and comment things that are potentially ambiguous. Use good names for variables and functions too.

>>61073913
>>61073945
Also if it's a big project, write documentation. A description of modules, functions etc, with a description of what they do, where they are used, what data goes in, what comes out.

>>61073825
Why not do the real thing?

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I'm just too tired right now but it needs to be done

slice[1]=largeArray[i-2]
slice[2]=largeArray[i-1]
slice[3]=largeArray[i-0]
slice[4]=largeArray[i+1]
slice[5]=largeArray[i+2]

How do I produce this for a generic range of the large array, if it'd go out of bounds for either side just repeat the last valid value (i.e. index largeArray[clamp(0,maxIndex, i)])

I've played with wolfram alpha in substitute for a brain but I can't figure it out.

Hey /dpt/, I'm looking for an introduction book to compilers. Any recommendations?

>>61074002
>last valid value
closist valid index, jsus

>>61073921
please respond

>>61073996
It's good practice either way and artificial constraints can force you to learn how to be more efficient.

>>61074014
The dragon one.

>>61073921
The shifts are in the asl part of the add/mov instructions.

>>61074014
dragon book

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Wew.

rust is reddit: the programming language

>>61074066
Man I don't care if Rust is good or not, I refuse to deal with its syntax. I really like the concepts too which is a bummer, there has to be a better way.

>>61074048
>It's good practice either way and artificial constraints can force you to learn how to be more efficient.
I'm not convinced. It's the same as learning how to play guitar with the game RockSmith.

>>61074056
Where asl is probably arithmetic shift left. Find a doc for whatever isa you're using.

Taking a python for networking class on Udemy. Well rounded and all that

>>61074002
It's just

int count=5
int modifier=-count/2
for (int i=0;i<count;i++){
    slice[i]=largeArray[i+modifier];
    modifier++;
}

For odd values of count and integer division.

>>61074072
What language is 4chan: the programming language?

>>61074111
lisp

>>61074080
which parts of its syntax do you dislike?

>>61074118
fn

>>61074116
>escapist refuge for edgy teenagers and antisocial unemployed autists
Looks about right.

Does DPT include HDLs? Trying to keep my Verilog skills up over summer break but I'm not sure what to make.

>>61074102
I need more than just odd values. In the case of non-odd values it needs to be biased towards the bottom.

slice[1]=largeArray[i-2]
slice[2]=largeArray[i-1]
slice[3]=largeArray[i-0]
slice[4]=largeArray[i+1]

>>61074116
Lisp is love, Lisp is life.

>>61074157
clojure is highest paid language on avg
I dislike lisp too but i wouldnt lie about it

>>61074157
Get a load of this faggot who hasn't even read SICP.

>>61074118
Most of it to be honest, and there's all that unwrapping and their choices of symbols. What I do like it just what they get from C and what I don't like is everything else which is everything that makes rust, rust.

>>61074087
You're entitled to your opinion but I'm curious if you've tried it, your answer will effect my opinion of you but there's no need to go beyond just your response.

>>61074193
Unwrapping has nothing to do with syntax.
>everything that makes rust, rust
Type system and borrow checker make rust rust, not syntax.

>>61074157
hello there reddit

>>61074215
The syntax is what makes up every language, it's legitimately the thing you read and write, I feel like it's the most important thing if you expect humans to write it, if I don't like the syntax I can't like the language, sorry.

>>61074208
You sound like an edgy teenager.

>>61073559
Has anyone here written a compiler?
I've just finished a very simple one from a C based language to some assembly for a VM I made and I'm about to start w/ output optimisation.

Any tips for me?

>>61073825
all programming games look fucking dumb

>>61074251
get a girlfriend

>>61074251
I've heard LLVM is really good.

>>61074251
Read the dragon book.

>>61074244
I'm 24, I'll be 25 in July. I think I'm more boring and practical than I am edgy although I guess at times I probably can be. I don't know where you're getting that though or how it relates.

I was just curious if you had tried it or not, I think it's unfair to cast something aside as a toy and say it's not valuable for educational purposes if you've not even tried it. The similarities between the fake thing and the real thing are good enough for a beginner but regardless they're fun exercises either way that can be refreshing compared to real tasks, not to mention the tasks are assigned so you don't have to come up with something yourself and you don't have to buy the parts.

>>61074274
That piece of shit is so outdated it's not even funny, and it spend so much goddamn time focusing on parsing when that shit is so easily done with the bajillion tools there are.

>>61074243
>The syntax is what makes up every language
lmao

>>61074286
>using shitty tools for parsing
"no"
If you do not know the theory behind parsing and decide to use a shitty library instead then you should kys.

>>61074286
>that shit is so easily done with the bajillion tools there are
this is how I know you're retarded. why even bother writing one then?

>>61073559
i thought it was in prison now. why is it allowed to tweet?

>>61074275
I haven't tried it and I'll never try it.
Why would I bother with a simulator? I don't need stimulation from a video game in order to program.

>>61074324
obama released it after assange said he would turn himself in in exchange for its release

>>61074303
You still need to know the theory to use any kind of parser generator or combinatoric parser, and the dragon book is not a good source to learn that.

>>61074310
The point of writing a compiler is not to waste your time on hand-writing your parser.

>>61074289
What's the issue? At the end of the day the code you're writing is what is syntactically valid in the language, nothing else defines a language more than the syntax.

>>61074324
He got out.

>>61074274
Read Modern Compiler Implementation in ML, Engineering a Compiler, Second Edition and Compiling with Continuations.

>>61074303
why are you telling all programming beginners to kill themselves
do you not realize people die of old age? if all the beginners die before their time, the discipline itself dies with them, because everyone better and more experienced than them will also eventually die

>>61074326
You sound like an edgy teenager.

>>61074336
False, Obama released him before leaving.

>>61074303
>>61074310
He clearly already has the language parsing you fucking script kiddies.

>>61074351
>non-free software
no u

>>61074360
lol?

>>61074361
Can you please stop using 4chan, it's proprietary.

>>61074375
False

>>61074352
obama has no respect for justice

>>61074286
>taking >use the <meme> book< seriously

>>61074351
I still don't get you. If you want to learn assembly, read a book and do exercises.

>>61073581
C is only a typed assembly with UB everywhere, everyone can use it.

>>61074386
The tranny did nothing wrong.

when you have an if statement with three pretty long conditions is it good practice to split it into two if statements for readability?

>>61074286
>done with the bajillion tools there are
LALR parsers have terrible error messages. Most compilers that are trying to be taken seriously use hand-written recursive decent parsers.

>>61074352
http://time.com/4636953/wikileaks-chelsea-manning-julian-assange/
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/news/julian-assange-barack-obama-pardon-chelsea-manning-to-make-life-hard-commute-sentence-wikileaks-us-a7542896.html

what reason would obama have to release him other than to virtue signal to sjw transfags

>>61074400
no

>>61074417

what do you do? just three statements over 3 lines?

>>61074395
>>61073581
C doesn't protect you against your own incompetence, so only programmers who have the faintest clue can actually use it.

>>61074337
>>61074272
This is purely a learning exercise for me, but thanks

>>61074341
>>61074274
>>61074286
Thanks for the suggestions, I've used the Dragon book, Engineering and some others. Whats wrong w/ the dragonbook? I thought it was fine but of course I haven't done this before

>>61074326
Not him but video games are a valid and potentially powerful format to convey artistic meaning and although their use for this purpose has not yet been explored much the results so far have been promising (e.g. mother 3, yume nikki) so although researching further on this front may not be a valid kind of computer science it is unquestionably a valid kind of digital art and you should fuck off because it is okay to art instead of sciencing

>>61074415
The condition was for manning to be released right away, he was not. Afterwards Assange revoked the promise since it was not followed. Afterwards Obama released him.

>>61074429
Literally >>>/v/

>>61074427
The books >>61074341 mentioned are good.

>>61074421
One statement over any amount of lines that you want.

>>61074427
The dragonbook is fine, ignore the autists.

>>61074426
In C++ this also holds.

>>61074429
>Not him but video games are a valid and potentially powerful format to convey artistic meaning
Stopped reading there.
Video games are entertainment, not art.

>>61074426
Actually this holds in like bazillion of programming languages.

>>61074399
not him but that statement is self contradictory
it may not be illegal to be a tranny but it should be and they should have held that creature on those grounds alone
(just kidding i actually support transgender rights and the only reason i said that was to be edgy)
(also i know literally nothing about the case in question so for all i know maybe she (YES SHE) actually did do something wrong and actually didn't deserve to go free so don't quote me on saying she deserved to go free because i literally never actually said that, all i said was that i was joking when i said she didn't)

>>61074439
I know, thanks for those. I've not read the ML one or Continuations, but I will

>>61074286
fag

>>61074384
Can you link me to the current source that we're posting on right now and its license please?

>>61074394
I already know 2 variants, x86 and POWER. I've never read a book outside of references. Why assume that 1) I don't know ASM 2) the game is intended to teach it? More importantly why focus so much on me specifically when this is a general topic. The game is fun but it also has an educational value to it despite that not being its main intention. There's a big difference in doing something for hobby/fun and doing something for work/pay, both can teach you something either way though.

My only issue with you is that you'd dismiss something without actually knowing what it is or having tested it for yourself first. Like I said originally though I'd rather not get into meta discussion, I simply wanted to know if you had or hadn't, since you haven't I don't think your opinion is worth anything but that's just my take on your character, it's not really relevant to the discussion, it just makes me disregard what you said previously. You can't make hasty generalizations like that, especially on the basis of random analogies with other tangentially related things.

>>61074482
Nice shitpost

>>61074435
Unnecessary, my post was about computer science, it even mentioned the words.
>>61074465
>Stopped reading there.
>Video games are entertainment, not art.
For now, maybe. But not exclusively so. Mother 3 was art. Yume Nikki was art. A lot of other games were art, but not nearly as many as are just entertainment. Slowly but surely, we can change this.

>>61074406
>only LALR parsers exist

>>61074495
>Can you link me to the current source that we're posting on right now and its license please?
What do you mean exactly? The source of the backend?
I do not have it, but I do not have the binary either: the only people who have the source also have the binary, which means that it is free.

rewriting gentoo in ARM asm

>>61074498
thanks m9
i tried real hard

>>61074465
>doesn't even read the whole argument before responding
I was right in my assessment, this hard headed attitude is bad for you.

>>61074520
I don't think you're being genuine with me, Anon. That's not very nice.

>>61074503
>all nonfree

>>61074532
>I don't think you're being genuine with me, Anon. That's not very nice.
What? I am not sure what you are implying here.

>>61074532
>I was right in my assessment, this hard headed attitude is bad for you.
I'm not interested in discussing video games here.

>>61074533
Unfortunately this is indeed the case. And there's some precedent to it. Information wants to be free. But art is not information in the same way that information wants to be free.
On the other hand, code is also generally not art, not even when what it does is art. So here's what I propose. There should be a strict dividing line between what of a game is art and what of it is information. Games should be nonfree content (the "assets") authored in a format that can be presented by free software (the "engine").

>>61073921
Someone hasn't heard of SIMD

>>61074573
>But art is not information in the same way that information wants to be free.
This is false, ALL information wants to be free, including the artistic kind.
Moreover remember, free as in freedom, not free as in money.

>Games should be nonfree content (the "assets")
I disagree, people might want to make other games with a different theme based on these assets, why should they be stopped? Why are you against new art being born from old one?

>>61074603
Small Instrument, Multiple Dicks?

>>61074603
shalom bisqwit

>>61074544
I think you're being disingenuous with the intention of riling me up and/or garnering attention.

>>61074554
The problem is your reluctance to see it as anything but a video game. I hold the position there is educational value in it, the other Anon seems to think there is artistic value in it, it can be more than a toy for leisure and it shouldn't be cast aside just because it appears to be like something else at first glance.

Beginners are common in these threads and I think some of them could benefit from such a thing. You have to remember that people learn differently, just because something did or did not work for you does not mean it applies to everyone. I think new avenues for learning are a good thing and they shouldn't be shunned so soon.

>>61074630
Does he post here?

Gamification is a meme. If you want to learn assembly, go read a book and write code. If you want to play puzzle games, go play puzzle games, but don't delude yourself into thinking that doing it will somehow teach you real assembly, you might as well try to learn how to drive in GTA.

>>61074631
>I think you're being disingenuous with the intention of riling me up and/or garnering attention.
I literally proved to you why 4chan is free for the definition provided by the FSF, what else do you want?
If you disagree with what I said then please provide proper counter-arguments.

>>61074631
>I hold the position there is educational value in it
Not as long as it is non-free

>artistic value in it
Not as long as it is non-free

>>61074638
almost certainly not

>>61074631
>The problem is your reluctance to see it as anything but a video game. I hold the position there is educational value in it, the other Anon seems to think there is artistic value in it, it can be more than a toy for leisure and it shouldn't be cast aside just because it appears to be like something else at first glance.
Good for you. I still won't touch it in a million years.
>Beginners are common in these threads and I think some of them could benefit from such a thing. You have to remember that people learn differently, just because something did or did not work for you does not mean it applies to everyone. I think new avenues for learning are a good thing and they shouldn't be shunned so soon.
Beginners should start by reading a book and doing exercises. I'm sure there's some value to the game, but, like I said before, it won't beat the real deal.

Working on a Lisp interpreter. I'm trying to imitate Racket in some parts and it got me thinking: what are actually these keywords like "let" or "if"? These aren't procedures, they aren't even a value by themselves (syntax error when trying to evaluate them). But they aren't macros, because that would mean they are defined in terms of something else, yet there is no way to define 'if' and 'cond' without one of these, is there?

>>61074708
let can be a macro (read let over lambda), if is a special form.

>>61074613
>This is false, ALL information wants to be free, including the artistic kind.
I disagree.
>Moreover remember, free as in freedom, not free as in money.
I agree with this though. But I also think that art should be literally the opposite: free as in money but not free as in freedom. It's like when someone does a painting and hangs it up in front of their house (except no one would actually do this because it could get stolen) and you can drive by and look at it as much as you want for no charge but if you went up there and scribbled a mustache on it that would be vandalism.
>I disagree, people might want to make other games with a different theme based on these assets, why should they be stopped? Why are you against new art being born from old one?
With a different theme BASED ON the assets, or with a different theme WITH the assets? An artist's work is a piece of himself. If you take literally the exact same assets -- or even edited but still recognizable assets -- and rearrange them to mean something different, you're not just saying something, you're changing what the original artist is saying. You're manipulating his speech. If you make the assets yourself, and they're recognizable as the same people, places, or things, then that's not the same thing, because the original artist's soul is not in your work, it's yours instead. That then would constitute a derivative work or a parody or satire. But just straight up using someone else's work in something new is fucked up, it's like capturing the original artist and tying their hands between their back and forcing them to read a script with a gun to their head.

>>61074708
You can emulate let as call to lambda, so

(let ((a 10)) (+ a 5))

is equivalent to

((lambda (a) (+ a 5)) 10)

But yeah, you need cond to implement if as a macro, this is why it's usually a special form.

>>61073559
Just wrote a basic clickbot in Julia with a GTK-based GUI for my own use: https://pastebin.com/EX5mwZYD

It's kind of hacky, but it works exactly as I want it to work.

>>61074658
I'm good, you can have this one.

>>61074690
I'm not trying to convince you to use it, as I mentioned before I was only curious if you had or had not because you seemed to have a strong opinion on it as if you had experience. That's all, my intention is not to get you to try it, only to find out if you did or not. I don't know why you keep stating that you're not going to try it as if you have to.

>Beginners should start by reading a book and doing exercises.
This stubbornness is what I'm talking about, it's bad to assume that what worked for you will work for everyone. This however is a meta side topic.

>like I said before, it won't beat the real deal.
Like I had previously said, that's not the intent either.

There's obviously some communication issue going on here, either I'm not conveying things properly or you're failing to see the point of this thing. You mention that there may be value in it but what value you're seemingly not sure of. Either way I don't wish to continue, it's more likely that we simply disagree on the topic even if it seems like it's being discussed poorly at the moment. I have to back out of this one for now because I'm a bit tired, it won't be good for either of us.

>>61074783
You sound like an edgy teenager.

>>61074727
>>61074756
Okay, thanks. It would make sense to implement those as a separate value type then? Until now I was using Lua types to represent everything and both functions and special forms were just functions of environment and argument list (arguments being not evaluated, lambda specifically evaluated them). Now I wanted to introduce actual data types to differentiate between Lua types and Lisp types and I noticed it would be confusing to keep functions and special forms in the same type.

exokernels are the future

Monokernels are eternals.

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god is a cube looks more interesting even though i was skeptical at first. programmable nanomachines

DOMkernels are the future

>>61074733
>I disagree.
Why?

>But I also think that art should be literally the opposite: free as in money but not free as in freedom
This is against free culture.

>and you can drive by and look at it as much as you want for no charge but if you went up ...It also would be illegal if someone stole your private keys, hacked into your git repo and started writing horsedicks in your free as in freedom source code.
It is more like that you can drive by, look and copy it so you can also put it on the front of your house, modified or not.

>With a different theme BASED ON the assets, or with a different theme WITH the assets?
Either with the same assets or with derivative assets.

>An artist's work is a piece of himself
This is a literal meme. He loses literally nothing if someone else uses it with due credit. Instead, the humanity wins.
It's like me saying that a programmer's work is a piece of himself, or that a scientist's proof or algorithm is a piece of himself (this sounds more sane to my mind).

>or even edited but still recognizable assets
You are not allowed to even use edited but unrecognisable assets.

>you're not just saying something, you're changing what the original artist is saying
No? This sounds completely retarded.

>You're manipulating his speech
"Oh no, he edited my source code, HE IS MANIPULATING MY SPEECH"
This is retarded, instead, he makes a game based on another one so he can enjoy it better than the original. It affects nobody in a negative way. In fact it does not affect the original artist at all.

>because the original artist's soul is not in your work
Okay, I am convinced. Artfags are schizophrenic.
Tell me how the hell this is different with programs, algorithms and proofs.

>it's like capturing the original artist ...
You are not forcing anyone, you are making the changes yourself.
Reminds me of some butthurt japanese companies that get pissed off due to DJs.

>>61074783
>I'm good, you can have this one.
What?

>>61074832
That comes from /agdg/ you know.

>>61074783
What are you trying to prove?

>>61074832
>god is a cube
long awaited fez sequel?

>>61074840
yes that's where i found out about it

>>61074832
Nonfree
Also, the creator of it is using a shitty 3d engine and at the same time he said that porting it to linux was a pain and started shit-talking gnu/linux users.

>>61074859
>started shit-talking gnu/linux users
Anyone who uses GNU-infected Linux deserves it.

>>61074111
HolyC

>>61074859
if he was using a prewritten 3d engine chances are it wouldn't be hard to port it to linux. what a retard

>>61074841
I think it's rude to try and push the discussion further after the other person has conceded or wishes for a peaceful resolution. I feel like this conversation is dipping into a 1 on 1 about character, and less the subject anyway but more importantly I don't think I'm mentally fit enough to continue, I've been awake longer than I should have been.

>>61074926
>I don't think I'm mentally fit enough to continue
You are not, you are a retard.
Are you even a programmer? What are you doing here? Did the tranny picture at the OP attract shitheads like you?

>>61074839
>Why?
Has anyone ever told you that if you're reading something, and you have a question, you should wait until you've read it all to ask the question, because your question might be answered later in the message, and if you insist on asking anyway, it's hard to tell whether you didn't understand the rest of the message or just didn't read it?
>It is more like that you can drive by, look and copy it so you can also put it on the front of your house, modified or not.
Oh yeah I guess it is.
>This is a literal meme. He loses literally nothing if someone else uses it with due credit. Instead, the humanity wins.
If the derivative work becomes more popular than the original, then the original comes to be seen through the lens of the derivative work, and so the original intended meaning is lost.
>It's like me saying that a programmer's work is a piece of himself, or that a scientist's proof or algorithm is a piece of himself (this sounds more sane to my mind).
It's incomparable. Art's purpose is to convey emotion. Programs, proofs, and algorithms, on the other hand, are meant to be used. Using them is not a violation of the creator's speech, it's an acknowledgement of that speech, because that speech is "look at this thing, isn't it useful."
>"Oh no, he edited my source code, HE IS MANIPULATING MY SPEECH"
Not comparable, see above
>This is retarded, instead, he makes a game based on another one so he can enjoy it better than the original. It affects nobody in a negative way. In fact it does not affect the original artist at all.
It has the potential to negatively affect the integrity of the original message, see above
>Tell me how the hell this is different with programs, algorithms and proofs.
see above
>You are not forcing anyone, you are making the changes yourself.
No, the original artist of the assets you're using is making the changes, and you're forcing him to. It's just that when he's there with you making the changes, he's not in the flesh.

>>61074926
I don't care about you as a person. Neither do I care about your game. Go to sleep.

>>61074922
it's unity

File: gbgpsfagsbtfo.png (390KB, 1920x1080px) Image search: [Google]

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reminder that haskell is fast
>inb4 "hur a dur, gigabytes of garbage per second"
and it cleans it all up too
and yet it's still fast
antihaskletsbtfobrehmotherfucker

>>61075038
What people don't realize is that 1 GB/s of garbage is completely meaningless when GHC's garbage collector runs proportional to the amount of LIVE objects.

>>61074999
keck, confirmed for retard then

>>61074938
I do contracts for embedded systems, sometimes I work with electrical engineers but I never went to school for that so I feel weird about accepting that title. Regardless we do the same work, I don't do it full time because I think I'd go insane with all the client demands, the pay is good enough that I can take the time inbetween too. I do regular systems programming as a hobby, mostly for myself but if I make something general enough I tend to release it.

>>61074959
You shouldn't even indulge in discussion if you don't care about the thing being discussed. I regret being patient with such an ignorant curmudgeon who can't even grasp simple concepts and gets mad at others for it.

>>61075038
Haskell has completely unpredictable performance, it's a minefield of slow.

>>61075038
haskell is obfuscated by design

>>61075071
>ignorant curmudgeon who can't even grasp simple concepts
Why, I never! Watch your language, sir.

>>61075071
>You shouldn't even indulge in discussion if you don't care about the thing being discussed. I regret being patient with such an ignorant curmudgeon who can't even grasp simple concepts and gets mad at others for it.
You're retarded, even by 4chan standards.

>>61075077
use strict evaluation then

>>61074950
>Has anyone ever told you that if you're reading something, and you have a question, you should wait until you've read it all to ask the question
No, in any case I would forget it, just like I forgot to remove that part.

>If the derivative work becomes more popular than the original
It means that the derivative is probably an improvement, at least for some people.

>then the original comes to be seen through the lens of the derivative work, and so the original intended meaning is lost.
I am unsure how this is the case. But anyway, I think that this is a small price to pay.
Moreover the only ones that lose the meaning are the ones that decide to view the original over the lens of the derivative, while they are free not to do so. The creator nor the players of the original are affected.

>Art's purpose is to convey emotion
I disagree, art's purpose is give some form of enjoyment to the person that sees it, or at least when assuming that the person that sees it is the creator.
The enjoyment might be some pretty lake, a cute anime girl, a cute anime girl having sex, xkcd-like art, a vase, a vase made for tiles for a game.
The art might contain some of the emotions of the creator but these only play a role on affecting the enjoyment that the viewer sees.

>are meant to be used
Used, not necessarily modified or shared. The same thing for art might be viewing it.
In any case, I do feel that I am expressing emotions and beliefs in my algorithms and programs.

>it's an acknowledgement of that speech, because that speech is "look at this thing, isn't it useful."
I would claim the same for art.

>It has the potential to negatively affect the integrity of the original message, see above
So it should be clear that this is a derivative work, in order to make it clear that these are not the words of the original creator but of the creator of the derivative.

>No, the original artist of the ...
This makes absolutely no sense. Anyhow, I could claim the same for programs.

>>61075077
>this analogy is meaningful to him
>he has never carefully navigated his way through a literal minefield and survived with all his limbs intact
>he thinks he deserves to be called a programmer

>>61075106
That was a generous comparison. You can send robots to clear out the path in a minefield, GHC can't tell you shit until it has already exploded in your face

>>61075096
Not an argument
>unga bunga me no likeum video game, you no likeum video game!!

>>61075085
God forbid someone be concise when the other person is obviously having a hard time understanding something more sparse.

>>61075106
>navigated
>she didn't survive the minefield by blind luck
>she thinks she deserves to be called a programmer

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>strict evaluation

>>61075071
Are you a girl? Or a furry maybe?

>>61075142
Let me drone on about my character on an anonymous imageboard, that's what everyone is here for, to get to know me personally.

>>61075157
A yes/no won't dox you.
I ask because I think that I know who you are, that guy with the girly furry character?

>>61075132
>God forbid someone be concise
Oh please, you're anything but concise. For some misguided reason you seem to abuse gratuitously verbose long-winded logorrhea, when a simple fuck you would do.

>>61075100
>It means that the derivative is probably an improvement, at least for some people.
Yeah I guess.
>I am unsure how this is the case. But anyway, I think that this is a small price to pay.
It's the full price. It's as full a price to pay as there can be, because meaning is the essence of what art is.
>Moreover the only ones that lose the meaning are the ones that decide to view the original over the lens of the derivative, while they are free not to do so. The creator nor the players of the original are affected.
Yeah I guess.
>I disagree, art's purpose is give some form of enjoyment to the person that sees it, or at least when assuming that the person that sees it is the creator.
>The enjoyment might be some pretty lake, a cute anime girl, a cute anime girl having sex, xkcd-like art, a vase, a vase made for tiles for a game.
>The art might contain some of the emotions of the creator but these only play a role on affecting the enjoyment that the viewer sees.
I don't agree at all. Art that gives enjoyment is pretty popular, and a lot of art can be classed in that category, but that's not all that art is. There is art that's not enjoyable. There's a lot of it actually, and I'm talking about art that's not MEANT to be enjoyable. Art that's meant to convey emotion, such that none of that emotion is enjoyable to feel, not even to the creator. Art that hurts. Needless to say, it doesn't tend to be very popular--except among academics, who eat that shit up.
>Used, not necessarily modified or shared. The same thing for art might be viewing it.
Okay?
I don't disagree with this at all. But I also don't understand what the point of it was.
>In any case, I do feel that I am expressing emotions and beliefs in my algorithms and programs.
That's really cool actually.
>I would claim the same for art.
I guess you could say that the ability to widen a person's perspective is a kind of usefulness.
>So it should be clear...
(running out of characters) seems like a good soluti

>>61075136
why is it bad to be the kind of person pictured though
i envy him, he looks a very long ways off from ever starving

>>61075157
Do you have de benis :DDDDDD

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>not developing exclusively on and exclusively for windows
>being this much of a girlmale

>>61075211
He's a short way off from a heart attack, he's hot and sweaty, he's sad and lonely, and he has to use a stick to wipe his ass crack because he can't reach all the way without getting some shit on him wrist.

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>>61075211
i'm confused
are we to assume from this that you're an anorexiafag?

>>61075180
A "fuck you" is fine when someone is being a shithead (or better yet just ignore it) but I really can't tell with that guy, maybe that person was trying their best and really wanted to have a discussion, I like that so why not engage with them.
I think they're being a shithead but not on purpose so I'm trying to express my disapproval but not in a way that's too harsh.

If you look at the reply chain too you can see my posts got progressively longer because the person I was talking to didn't understand things so it got progressively more verbose as I had to explain more and more details that they were missing, I'm not like that out of the gate.

Alternatively; fuck you, why do you give a shit faglet. Don't talk to me or my wife's son ever again.

>>61075178
>I think I know who you are, please confirm it for me
Anon...

>>61075252
At that point why even wipe? There's always going to be some shit in there

index : [A : *] [n : U] Array A n => (i : U) => (i < n) => A

>>61075181
>It's the full price. It's as full a price to pay as there can be, because meaning is the essence of what art is.
>Yeah I guess.
Considering the above, I would say that there is no price to pay, as only the ones who select to not look at the original with a clear vision will lose its meaning.

>There is art that's not enjoyable. There's a lot of it actually, and I'm talking about art that's not MEANT to be enjoyable. Art that's meant to convey emotion
Actually I would include consider that also as enjoyable art, take this manga for example: https://www.mangaupdates.com/series.html?id=22930 (seriously, read it). It might not give you happiness nor make you laugh but I think that the sum of it gives you enjoyment as in you have read a well made manga that portraits certain feelings and situations very well - enjoyment might come in the form of something that you view as sad.

>But I also don't understand what the point of it was.
Because I believe that by that definition both art and programs etc are meant to be used, in contract withw hat you said before
>It's incomparable. Art's purpose is to convey emotion. Programs, proofs, and algorithms, on the other hand, are meant to be used.

>(running out of characters) seems like a good soluti
This is why I did the ... in my quotes.

>>61075268
You wrote 150 words just to end with a fuck you.
Case in point. Game, set, and match.

>>61075271
>>61075252
This is why we bidets need to be a global standard.

>>61075271
The smell. Oh god the smell.

>>61075304
Bidets are now shilling for themselves on the Internet.

I knew the IoT bullshit would go too far

>>61075300
I was obviously joking you autist, the meat of my point lies above it and you know that, stop dicking around just for the attention.

>>61075271
>At that point why even live?
ftfy

>>61075304
I see people here in the US scoff at bidets, and it boils my clean butthole.

>>61075315
I'm not looking for attention, mate. I'm making fun of you.
No hard feelings.

>>61075268
Just a yes/no. I can't find your fur-affinity profile right now to link it here.

4chan is free as in freedom

>>61075271
400lbs, can confirm
>>61075211
I don't know what your situation is if you're close to starving but if it ever gets better I advise you not to take advantage of it too excessively. Life as a fat slob is garbage, programming becomes your only escape

>>61075338
Kisuka?

>>61075333
>No hard feelings.
I'm sorry, I'm in a bad mood and I'm trying to pass the time here but it's not going so well for me or anyone here. I need to fix my sleep schedule though so what else can I do that takes such a low amount of energy.

>>61075338
Even if I was why would I confirm it? Why would you trust what I say either way? No, I'm not a furry. Why do you care and how is that on topic?

>>61075364
Wow you're a furry?
I'm a ponyfag and even I find that disgusting.

>>61075377
>Pone
*pukes*

>>61075377
Wow you're a ponyfag?
I'm a pedo and even I find that disgusting

>>61075377
Hilarious and original.

>>61075377
Wow you're a ponyfag?
As in a fan of MLP? Like, JUST a fan? Because that's fine. It's for little girls and you're probably a grown ass man but there's nothing wrong with unconventional gender expression.
Or do you mean as in you FAP to MLP? Because THAT, is fucking disgusting. I'm a vorarephile and even I find that disgusting.

>>61075392
Wow you're a pedo?
I'm a shotacon and even I find that disgusting.

>>61075404
Wow you're a shota?
I'm a faggot and even I find that disgusting.

>>>/b/

>>61075428
Yes, I am a cute shota =3

>>61075445
At least you're not a feetfag. Feetfags are the worst.

>>61075449
What about footfag shotacons?

>>61075364
>>61075377
>>61075392
>>61075402
>>61075404
>>61075428
>>61075445
>>61075449
good thread everyone

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>>61075449
A-Actually
;_;

>>61075463
a girl talked to me

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I'm learning Fortran, and it seems like a comfy language. People have been telling me that there's typically only one way to do a given thing in Fortran, which leaves little room for doing stuff wrong, and I think I'm starting to see what they mean.

Anyone else here like Fortran?

And btw, ow do I use LAPACK? I don't know much about programming to be honest besides syntax. Before now I've been writing in Python using Spyder, which literally just werks. I didn't need to mess around with SciPy or anything, just install Spyder and "import" everything. So how do I "install" LAPACK? And how do I get the BLAS? Do I just download some files and place them in the right folder, then continue using gfortran to compile?

>>61075474
>a girlmale talked to me
ftfy

>>61075474
NORMIE

>>61075474
A female grill or a trap?

>>61075474
ree get out

>>61075488
don't take this away from me

Decided to say fuck the C++ sucks and is for pajeets memes, and start building some shit in it.

Omfg people who shit on C++ are retarded, and probably just shit on it because they're too dumb to get over the learning curve.

The language fucking melts away, leaving you in full control of the semantics you meant and wanted, yet also elegantly abstracts away that control when you don't need and want it.

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Working on my compiler's v1.0.0 so I'm mostly bugfixing. I got multiple recursive calls working now.

>>61075497
C++ is for indian brainlets

>>61075474
>>61075496
If you want to genuinely continue the discussion with me later just leave some contact information and I'll get back to you when I'm not dead in the head.

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>>61075461

>>61075497
*++ is a mediocre language at best. It enables substandard programmers that cannot handle C into systems programming.

>>61075497
people exaggerate. There are big problems with C++ but the same is true of any language that has utility rather than just being wanked over.

>>61075497
The anti-C++ memesters are as retarded as the anti-C ones and probably don't program anything important.

>>61075497
I like writing C++, I don't like reading other peoples C++, they probably don't like reading mine either because of how easy it is to write. I know this is true for lots of languages but I mean especially for undocumented C++.

>>61075582
>The anti-C++ memesters
Count Linus in, pajeet. KYS

>>61075588
problem with C++ is that everybody writes it differently. Without a consistent style guide you're fucked.

>>61075605
Java sucks too.

>>61075605
>Count Linus in
You wish.

>>61075605
Fuck Linus he's an asshole. He was needlessly mean to Terry over email. Terry is of course fucking crazy but he doesn't deserve such cruelty just for that, the only thing he deserves for that is pity.

>>61075497
C++ is an ass backwards piece of garbage what should never have existed. C++ single handedly killed programming by letting the flood gates open for literal fucking brainlets

>>61075631
that's Java m8

>>61075624
>he fell for the terry email
It was not linus you dumb fuck.

>>61075631
>C++ single handedly killed programming
>there is still programming
explain

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>>61075617

>>61075644
>there is still programming
that's not programming, that's pajeet POOing in the LOO

>>61075606
The forced format of Go is honestly one of my favorite things about it, people shit on that language for being easy to work with, as if that's a bad thing. I seriously think the ubiquity of it alone is worth dropping all the features of C++. Maybe.

>>61075641
oh

>>61075644
>Your brain on C++ hatred.

>>61075635
At least Java has modules

>>61075645
>Java is so bad it almost makes C++ not seem like total trash.

>>61075654
>that's not programming, that's pajeet POOing in the LOO
>"hur a dur C is POO"
objectively incorrect

>>61075290
is U a universe?

>>61075658

Even the worst programming languages have something to like.

>>61075641
Fuck off back to plebbit, neo-/g/
http://harmful.cat-v.org/software/c++/linus

>>61075683
Unsigned pointer sized integer.

>>61075682
C supports POO, simply refer to the previous thread

>>61075682
C++ is for people that need POO to work with

>>61075662
Yes
1: multiple times he has gotten fake emails that use the technique at 2
2: smtp does not need the mails to have a valid FROM address, you also do not need to own the address
3: the email was at the spam, meaning that it probably had invalid DKIM
4: when he replied he got an invalid address mail back

>>61075687
>can't read

>>61075683

import universe u;
~ath(u) {} execute(null);
this.die();

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>>61075684
Not C++

>>61075690
ah

>>61075704
People who unironically mention this website have an IQ inferior to the amount of characters in the URL.

>>61075725
$ echo -n http://harmful.cat-v.org/software/c++/linus | wc -c
43

>>61075693
>C supports POO, simply refer to the previous thread
there's no turing complete language that doesn't so this is irrelevant
>>61075701
>C++ is for people that need POO to work with
this is also irrelevant, the claim was that C++ killed programming, the explanation given for the fact that there is still programming was that it is not programming but in fact POO, I don't care what C++ is, C is not POO and it is still in use, therefore the explanation provided is invalid

>>61075624
>Fuck Linus he's an asshole.
C++ "programmers" get upset when they are called out. Linus said nothing wrong

>>61075740
>there is still programming
>>61075654

>>61075744
>C++ "programmers" get upset when they are called out.
Incorrect, that's not what I was upset about, I was upset about the (untrue) fact that Linus cyber-bullied Terry.
>Linus said nothing wrong
If Linus had indeed cyber-bullied Terry -- which, need I remind you, I did believe until a moment ago -- this would be incorrect.

>>61075777
>t Linus cyber-bullied Terry.
Why the fuck are you bring that shit up? Who was talking about that youtube vlogger?

>>61075762
>61075654
see: >>61075740

>>61075744
How retarded can you be?

>>61075777
He is the same person that posted >>61075687, ignore him.

learning node so just doing a dumb backend only program where i can enter in movies i want to watch, it will pick a movie at random from my saved list if i want, and then i can move them over to a 'watched' list

>>61075790
>Why the fuck are you bring that shit up? Who was talking about that youtube vlogger?
it was literally in the same message you replied to 5 minutes ago

>>61075802
you can do this quicker and easier in excel...

>>61075793
>If I ignore him things will be better
Deluded C++ "programmers"

>>61075815
What are you blabbering?

>>61075841
>What are you blabbering?
This meme is as cancerous as "whomst arst thee quothing"

I used to hate C++ too. Then I read Stroustrup's book.
The thing about C++ is you can't hack it. You have to know a huge portion of the language to really grok any one part of a language.
For a lot of programmers, that really rubs them the wrong way, because we like to just start hacking before fully understanding something.

People who hate C++ generally either have their head too far up their ass to understand why C is such a shit language, are too dumb to grok an admittedly complex language, or are too impatient to actually put time into studying something.

>>61075833
>>If I ignore him things will be better
Yes, after all the thread will feel quite a bit less shitty.

>>61075841
I would have to ask you the same thing, how was >>61075687 relevant to anything? Do you lack the ability to read?

>>61075853
Or perhaps they value their time.

>>61075853
>Then I read Stroustrup's book.
Then I realized he was shilling Microsoft. Then I got rid of his advertisement brochure

>>61075853
>C is such a shit language
It's not though.
C++ is a good language too though.
I like them both.

>>61075857
>how was relevant to anything?
It was relevant to the post I replied to. I know it's hard for a single digit IQ C++ "programmer" to fathom

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>>61075857
>Yes, after all the thread will feel quite a bit less shitty.

>>61075853
>The thing about C++ is you can't hack it.
Cringe.

>>61075665
sepplets btfo

>>61075853
There is nothing (NOTHING) complex about C++.

>>61075876
C++ is not a programming language,

>>61075876
>It was relevant to the post I replied to
Well, I fear that it was not.

>C++ "programmer"
I don't feel like I should be explaining myself but the fact that I am not one makes you seem like even more of a retard.

>>61075853
This.
Although, simplicity is a point in C's favour. With C, you only need to understand
>statements and expressions
>functions
>pointers and arrays
>structs, enums and unions
>function pointers
and everything else is basically fluff. C++ is absolutely full of useful features but they're hard to learn and are easily misused.

>>61075506
>not "if n <= 1 fib := n"
Nice useless second if

>>61075860
C programmers don't value their time.
Doing the same shit over, and over, and over again, because they "like to feel in control," rather than having any practical language facilities to manage higher level abstractions.

>>61075868
Ah, C has its places, I'm sure. But I can't really imagine any place I'd rather use it. See my critique above. My biggest issue with it. If you're doing, say, embedded, I guess it makes sense because you'll have to take that control either way.

>>61075911
> I fear that it was not.
That's because you lack enough IQ to understand

>>61075924
Well, the fact that it was irrelevant still remains.

>>61075890
Sounds like you never learned it.

>>61075913
>C++ is absolutely full of useful features
C++ is absolutely full of useless "features"

FTFY. Only a 15 year old millennial will think those are "features"

>>61075920
>Doing the same shit over, and over, and over again
Wut?

>>61075890
Try to implement it.

>>61075935
Sounds like YOU never learned it

>>61075853
You really need to 'hack it' because it's so flawed.
You need to manipulate the vtables if you want to use that version of dynamic dispatch since it's simply a very nerfed system by the spec. Plenty of other examples are like this. Templates are very weak when used in their comfort zone.

The sensible answer to using C++ features is that generally they're inferior to the options if you have any sort of standard. Which you should because if you don't C++ is simply a bad language. It gives you control over things and if you don't use that control then leaving things in the hands of GC systems and JIT like Java will get you further.

>>61075920
>C programmers don't value their time.

Correct. They value the computational time and complexity of their programs; they value writing good software and robust code more than their time, to a fault.

How do i make a makefile that compiles sources from src dir to objs dir and links those to a file in $(TARGET) dir?

>>61075853
>hack
>grok
i agree with you tho

>>61075940
>millennial
Like you?

>>61075932
The fact that C++ is the worse piece of shit in the history of programming still remains too.

>>61075951
>You need to manipulate the vtables if you want to use that version of dynamic dispatch since it's simply a very nerfed system by the spec.
I feel like this is a response to a post that doesn't exist. What exactly are you talking about?

>>61075953
First Google result.
https://www.cs.umd.edu/class/fall2002/cmsc214/Tutorial/makefile.html

>>61075967
Irrelevant to the topic though.

>>61075959
>n u
Did I hit your home there?

>>61075978
You are right. C++ doesn't belong to the topic of programming.

>>61075920
C does have "practical language facilities to manage higher level abstractions," though. Just not the same ones C++ has.
Only four are built into the language:
>functions
>macros
>records
>inheritance
But others are trivial to implement, and well chosen macros can make them trivial to use:
>classes, as ADTs and/or as structs of function pointers
>interfaces, as structs of function pointers
>namespaces, as extern singleton structs

>>61075979
It's not a no-u argument, read it again.
You are literally a millennial, just like most people in this thread (if not every)

>>61075853
Put 5 more useless, superficial buzzwords in and you reached the level of C++

>>61075975
Why are you giving me a link that doesn't even remotely describe what i want to do faggot?

>>61075992
>I am braindead and I can't read
--you

>>61076001
>just like most people in this thread
Yeah, C++ "programmers" are millennials.

>>61076014
>I am a buttflustered brainlet: the post

>>61075953
gnu make is some arcane wizardry

>>61075999
>>61075999
>>classes, as ADTs and/or as structs of function pointers
This will either be convoluted as fuck or inefficient.

C++ is for indian brainlets

>>61076024
Are you admitting to being a C++ programmer?

>>61076032
Nah, more like the truth.

>>61076048
>more like the truth.
I know

>>61076048
C++ is not a programming language itself. It's C with 2 more standard libraries

>>61076044
>convoluted as fuck
That's where the macros come in.

>>61076056
Glad that you understand.

>>61076061
>It's C with 2 more standard libraries
How about the syntax changes?

>>61076063
I'm curious now, could you rewrite >>61073354 with macros to make it better?

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>C++

>>61075969
Its an example of a feature in C++ that's designed to be completely illegal to touch that you'd need to hack to get some use out of it. And it's not just one of the minor "look we can emulate multiple returns"-features. It's an actual feature that conflicts the stronger idea that exists in OOP and first class objects.
Not with good reason either i might add. They have the double indirection right there and they could give us first class objects. They explicitly went against that for some reason and now it's really just a dead feature. Realistically you substitute your virtual function calls with your own construct. Or you could do my rather insane suggestion that's not even portable between compilers. Nevermind platform.

That's where C++ is at with its features. It gets very complex if you actually use it to write quality software. If you don't you're probably just deluding yourself by programming in it.

The biggest advantage of C++ is its cultural dominance. You can hire C++ programmers easily. As you might with C# or Java. You won't find the same in C99 or Asm or any other language. But that's on the management side of things. I guess you guys probably don't care.

>>61076067
>How about the syntax changes?
They exist to be compatible with the 2 new standard libraries

>>61076069
I'll give it a shot and get back to you.

>>61076079
k

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C++ "programmers" are brainlet indians

>>61076074
I still have no idea what the fuck you're talking about. You have some idea of dynamic dispatch which is better than C++'s implementation with virtuals but you don't make it clear what it is.

New thread: >>61076117

>>61076069
Not that guy but can you not see how there's lots of repetition in that? You can just make a macro that takes the pointer, casts it, dereferences the vtable and calls the function on it (or for my personal preference I'd have that macro let me call the function of it so I'd have the calling site look like Convert(ptr)->say_hello();).

>>61076120
Oh. Anon that's obvious. Read up on first class objects (I can't realistically be asked to teach you OOP in this thread).
Compare the requirements to what you can do in C++. Look at how they differ in terms of what you can do with the function calls.

There's good reason the person who coined OOP doesn't consider C++ oop oop.

>>61076132

I'm not familiar with C macros, I genuinely want to see what can be done.

>>61075826
i could do it quicker and easier tearing up pieces of paper and putting it into a hat, but the point is to learn node

>>61076156
They're just very simple text substitution.
I wouldn't call them good ever but they're clearly a plus here if they're all you got.

>>61075999
Well, yeah, that goes without saying.
Yet C maintains a culture of doing the same shit over and over again, and C programmers will shit on C++ for making that costly to do in idiomatic ways, as, yes, OOP has an overhead.
But that overhead of OOP leads to, IMO, more powerful abstractions. *Can* I do the same things in C? Yes. Are they as ergonomic? No. For example, dependency injection. I've seen some pretty weird tooling to get similar effects, like code generating the C code.

>>61076155
You're talking about smalltalk-style OOP, I guess? My only experience is modern languages like Java and C++.

>>61076219
>-style
Anon OOP is OOP. No need to complicate it. C++ "OOP" isn't really oop. It's inheritance (not really OOP either) with a simple dynamic dispatch system. It's incredibly weak inheritance too. It could have been built in a way that you didn't need to declare the inheritance structure if that's all they're going for. They could easily infer that from use and have every piece of data just be the minimum to get the code running.

But it's not OOP.
>>61076184
>is it as ergonomic?
I'd argue it's about as ergonomic as the C style that was presented. You can solve a lot of the issues through very simple metaprogramming. But you get better control too. Which is nice. You could swap the vtable pointers for instance. You could fork the vtable and make what's effectively a new class during runtime. There's so much neat stuff you never get to do in C++.
>I'd never swap the vtable pointers that's crazy!
Yeah maybe. But there's a lot of problems that get solved by that actually. And you don't have to.

>weird tooling to similar effect.
I can agree that implementing this is better than using metaprogramming to emulate it. But don't frown on metaprogramming. It's nice when you understand it.

>>61076498

Java is what most people would call OOP today, but it doesn't seem to be what you're describing. Why are you so afraid of simply establishing some clear definitions?

>>61076109
This is a problem with hiring practices in India. The managers there are more concerned about building up large fiefdoms than with hiring quality people. The Indians I've worked with who live in the US are generally good developers.They're probably even above average.

>>61076069
https://pastebin.com/wXNXraWB
This is as far as I got. It compiles, but it segfaults and I haven't nosed around long enough to understand why. I'd look into it more but I have plans that are happening soon.