Rust hate thread

>>61064444
>C is the only true, good, language
now-now grandpa, go take your medicine and watch the latest episodes of baywatch with the group

>>61064444
>C is the only true, good, language.
Quads confirm, Allah be praised.

>>61064513
I bet you're a faggot nigger lover.

Who would
C++ or Rust

>>61064526
all this

>projecting

no!

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>>61064444
Why don't you just make a C appreciation thread instead of being so edgy?

You cancerous people are what's wrong with this board.

can't wait for summer to be over

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>>61064444
Rust is love, not hate. We love C, we use libc ourselves. If you hate us, we forgive you, be free.

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What benefits would I gain from using rust as a C programmer?

>>61064574
Anime is year round

>>61064710
AIDS

>>61064574
>Miku
Get in with the times, it's Maki now.

>>61064710
Try it, it's not habit forming... i promise anon

>>61064760
Maki is a forced meme

don't take /g/'s advice for languages
Rust is good
if you wanna learn, just try it
Don't come here for approval

As soon as I learned you need to download external libraries to do certain OS things like poll() I ditched it, its a meme toy language

>>61065079
You need to import 2 modules just to do wildcard expansion in Python and check if a file exists.

>>61064444
>C is the only true, good, language.
I agree, but you misspelled C++.

>>61065160
Show me a readable STL implementation.

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>>61065160
>C++

>>61065188
>>61065197

t. brainlets

>>61064574
It's the middle of winter, fucking retard.

>>61065188
99% of them.
Being too dumb to understand them != unreadable.
Stupid blub.

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>>61064444
>C is the only true, good, language.
>quads
The prophecy is true

Literally the only people who bash on C++ are people who are literally too retarded to understand the language. They've only ever known C their entire life, and they've only ever written toy programs.
They have never before written a real program where C's shortcomings start to become very apparent.

They're simply just incapable of understanding higher concepts on top of the lower level concepts.

It feels good being good at low level programming and high level programming.

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>>61065293
>Linux is a toy program

>>61065313
There are good C programmers, but there are none of /g/.

>>61065079
>you need to download external libraries to do certain OS things like poll()
did you even understand what these "libraries" do? did you know it only takes 3 lines of code to make poll() unsafe?

>>61065322
There are no good programmers in general on /g/, so why take any of these threads seriously?

>>61065425
Yeah you're right.
I knew I was the only good programmer on /g/.

>>61065293
As a long time C programmer, I just recently started a few toy projects to evaluate C++ in relation thereto, and I came out of it not overly impressed.
I wanted RAII to be a nice thing, but in practice I found that all the extraneous class-writing necessary to actually use it outweighed the advantages, especially for one-off things, and doubly so when you have to write like three constructors and two assignment operators for every little throw-away class.
Since I often have to "reinvent the wheel" to have some basic polymorphism in many programs, I was hoping that C++'s built-in OO would be a convenient thing for the common cases, but with all the constructor chaining, namespacing and putting everything in header files, that too didn't exactly impress me.
I wanted templates to be a good replacement for fmax/fmaxf/fmaxl and similar retardedness, but yet again I wasn't too impressed with putting everything in header files and also the increased compilation times it caused.

Also in the end I just felt more limited. I admit it may have to with just getting used to it, but there were quite a lot of places where I felt I just had to trust the compiler to do "the right thing" with copy-elimination and whatnot, rather than just being able to type out exactly what I wanted.
Also, while it's hard to argue for it to any length, there's something to be said for the inability of C to handle common abstractions automatically for you. I may swear at it while you're writing it, but in the end I find that the code simply ends up less complex than it would have been in C++ if I had implemented a "nice class structure". If I want to do some simple data structure, I just do it, not having to think about what abstract base classes I wrote previously that I should reuse in this particular case.

It's not that I found C++ completely broken or anything, it's more that the extra complexity and compile times and libraries don't seem to be worth the rather limited advantages.

>>61064444
>C is good
90% devs are incompetent, C requires competent devs. Rust is perfect for the other 90%. It isn't even bad.

>>61065444
>I may swear at it while I'm writing it*

>>61065444
Some of those are valid criticisms, and they're all C's fault.

>>61065501
>and they're all C's fault.
If anything, they're C++'s fault for trying to be two things at once. I really did often feel that way many times while trying it, that it would have been better if they had ditched the "wanting to be C as well as high-level" and went for something more pure. It seemed to often end up being the worst of two worlds.

>>61065515
You are right, pretty much every complaint about C++ basically boils down to not abandoning C completely.

Rust gets a lot of things right, but it got two things really really really really really wrong - the BC and immutable by default, which outweighs all of it's upsides. Sadly.
I hope one day C++ abandons it's C roots.

>>61064957
>rust is good
>says reddit
No thanks, I would rather not chop off my balls in the name of muh safety

>>61065445
So what you're saying is Rust allows non competent programmers to flood the market and laden it with technical debt?

Mozilla can kiss my ass

>>61064513
confirmed for faggot nigger lover

>>61065079
this will be fixed. they're adding unix apis to the standard library.

>>61065636
It's better to flood the market with a better programming language than flooding the market with security vulnerabilities.

>>61064444
Rust is fantastic at its job: Isolate SJW trash and their misandrist, white-hating, cis-hating, straight-hating CoCs.

>>61065554
>pretty much every complaint about C++ basically boils down to not abandoning C completely
I very much agree with this, but just to be clear, that doesn't imply anything bad about C. It's just that C++ tries to combine two things that are too different, making it somewhat schizophrenic.

>>61066051
god you people are fucked in the head lol

>>61065554
The borrow checker is what lets it pass arguments to functions by move as the default without having to deal with use after move errors. It enables Rust's biggest performance improvement over C++ in practice: making it really hard to accidentally perform a deep copy of some big data structure.

High performance (pass by move and pass by const ref) is the path of least resistance that is syntactically lightweight to type, and is guarenteed to be safe by the BC and immutability by default.

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>>61064444
C is for brainlets

>>61066223
>t. literal brainlet

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>>61066302
True, C is meant for "Simple minded" people

>>61065444
>I wanted RAII to be a nice thing, but in practice I found that all the extraneous class-writing necessary to actually use it outweighed the advantages, especially for one-off things, and doubly so when you have to write like three constructors and two assignment operators for every little throw-away class.

I don't understand this. What "extraneous class writing"? Builidng RAII into an existing class the old way just involves writing a destructor, but even that's not necessary most of the time; just use std::make_unique() or RAII'd container types from the standard library.

Having to write multiple constructors or overloaded assignment operators has to do with move semantics and isn't related, and usually when the compiler is forcing you to do that you've done something awful.

>>61066335
>Builidng RAII into an existing class
Yes, the problem is what you don't have an existing class for some local data management, like when you want to manage some file descriptor that you got from a syscall or a library somewhere. Without RAII, you can simply use an int to pass it around and close() it when done with it, whereas with RAII you need to write a class just to manage it, which also needs copying and move semantics so that you can pass it around function calls.

>>61066042
Nice double speak

So you want to flood the market with "strong independent coders" who don't know fuck all about programming and you think security will improve?

Fucking laughable

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>>61065209
Maybe in your backwards country, meanwhile in the 1st world summer is where the sun shines and it snows on Christmas.

>>61064444
>C is the only true, good, language.
This.
Quads don't lie

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>>61064444

Politics aside, is Rust a good language?

>>61064574
/g/ is like that 24/7/365
summer never ends

>>61064957
If you care so much about safety just using Go or Java. Rust is literally cancer. It literally exists because bootcampfags can't be bothered to write good quality C.

>>61068199
I started looking into it at one point, and wasn't immediately impressed by what I saw. It looked pretty much like a C look-alike with safety restrictions to make you not shoot yourself in the foot, and no obvious advantages over C.

That being said, those were just my fast first impressions and there's a case to be made that I should be looking into it a bit further. Using move semantics by default for all value passing seemed like a slightly neat idea.

let greetings = ["Hello", "Hola", "Bonjour",
                     "Ciao", "こんにちは", "안녕하세요",
                     "Cześć", "Olá", "Здpaвcтвyйтe",
                     "Chào bạn", "您好"];

Someone should let them know that their sample greetings only use major language and further marginalize the languages of already oppressed cultures. I reckon there should be at least a couple of Native American, Pacific Island and Sub-Saharan languages in there, and probably remove the English greetings since it's the most oppressive of all.

>>61068585
>the subtle GDP ranking
raicisss as fuck

>>61068272
Same feeling here. One of the issues I found is that I still needed to interface with quite a few C-based libraries. If I'm glueing together a bunch of C libs then there isn't as much point in using rust as compared to any other high level language that can talk to C.

I'm guessing at some point a bunch of libraries will have native ports, but that isn't today.

>Literally reinventing the wheel
Every programming language reinvents the wheel with maybe one or two additions to make it stand out. In Rust's case, this is the borrow checker. Otherwise, it just takes all of the good parts of C++ and adds modules.

>completely bloated
How? What features that are a part of Rust do you feel it would be better off without?

rust doesn't have buffer overflows

>>61069142
cargo

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>>61064444
Whoa dude, be nice to the Rustbros.

>>61064526
>trying to be this edgy
Back to /pol/ newfag

>>61066563
>which also needs copying and move semantics so that you can pass it around function calls.
I disagree. You may just be over engineering your classes.

It shouldn't really be any more complicated than this:

struct Descriptor {
    int fd;

    // Either use the default brace-initialization, or:
    Descriptor(int fd) : fd(fd) {}

    // Some methods to work on fd
    // ...

    ~Descriptor() {
        if (fd) {
            close(fd);
        }
    }
};

The default copy constructor, move constructor, copy assignment, and move assignment are plenty enough for this class, there's no need to manually define them.

>>61069142
>What features that are a part of Rust do you feel it would be better off without?
The borrow checker.

>>61071971
Actually I just got up and didn't realize that you'd want to deep copy the descriptor when you copy it.
Ignore my post.

>>61069312
This.

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>>61071311
>Unironically hating /pol/
You have to go back.

>>61065438
But you're on /g/.

>>61072529
And?
I said I was the only good programmer on /g/.

>>61072621
But there are no good programmers on /g/.

>>61072659
Except for me, of course.

>>61072498
Why would you send someone to /pol/ if they hate it?

>>61072699
Again, go back.

>>61065554
>the BC
BC prevents double frees and most of possible leaks

> immutable by default

Immutable by default is better. Otherwise people almost never write "const" even though variable is never mutated.

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>>61072498
>Unironically liking /pol/
Stay in your containment board

>>61069096
>>61068272
> C look-alike with safety restrictions to make you not shoot yourself in the foot, and no obvious advantages over C

ADTs?
Type safety?
Trait system?
Portable primitive types?
Monadic error handling?
Sane macro system?

Are you blind?

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>>61072743

>>61072829
>Portable primitive types?
Using explicit-width integer types is a mistake. It doesn't make your program "portable" to use 64-bit ints everywhere when you want to port to a 16-bit architecture. That's exactly when you need an ABI whose widths can be adapted to what is natural in the platform.

If you're going to say that "you never want to port to a 16-bit architecture anyway, they are obsolete", then you have no argument to begin with, because if you only want to port between LP64/LLP64 architectures, then the primitive types in C are fixed already and there's literally nothing to worry about.

>>61064444
Rust SJWs want to replace the word [triggerwarning]bad[/triggerwarning]

https://github.com/rust-lang/rust/issues/41646

>>61072877
>It doesn't make your program "portable" to use 64-bit ints everywhere when you want to port to a 16-bit architecture

Why not? The definition of "portable" is that it runs the same everywhere.

>>61072909
Sad!

>>61072929
"Doing the same thing" isn't really meaningful when it's now running at 10% of the performance you'd want.

>>61072829
>Type safety?
C is typesafe.

>Trait system?
Meme that produces terrible abstractions. See: any popular Rust library. Makes you realize that OOP is A-Ok if you don't go overboard with it like Java land.

>Portable primitive types?
#include <stdint.h>

>Monadic error handling?
FP in Rust is crippled. Iterators are crippled. Like eating a salad at McDonalds.

>Sane macro system?
Macros are terrible. Anything that isn't a one liner causes a mess. Complex
patterns over multiple macro invocations become undebuggable. Can't even build
identifiers.


All this shit gets only hyped because Rust has a cult following.

>>61073086
>FP in Rust is crippled.
Call me when C gets basic shit like pattern matching. Fuck.

>>61073237
There's a difference in that C doesn't try to be an FP language. If you're going to implement something only to implement it badly, you're better off not trying in the first place.

>>61073332
>If you're going to implement something only to implement it badly, you're better off not trying in the first place.

if only the js crowd understood this...

>>61073332
>There's a difference in that C doesn't try to be an FP language.
Yes, the language is made for "simple minded people"

>>61073550
What, because functional programming is too intellectual and noble to be available to simple-minded people? Spoken like a true brainlet.

Even if it were true, though, why would it be a good thing to express the exact same thing in a form that makes it less understandable?

>>61064444
C++ > C

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>>61064444
It's endorsed by traitors to the United States of America too.

>>61064786
You're a forced meme you nigger

>>61074594
So? She also endorses breathing oxygen and eating food, right?

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It's endorsed by the true patriots of the United States of America.

>>61074594
That thing kinda resembles Marlin Manson. Gay and ugly.

>>61074824
>(((she)))

>>61074824
>she

I'd still hit it though

Friendly reminder that C now (since 2011). I love this language.

>>61074977
>Friendly reminder that C now (since 2011)
???

>>61074991
...has generic macros. Sorry, fucked up. Thank you for noticing.

>>61075014
Now instead of

[vm][234][add|sub|mul|div]

you only need add/sub/mul/div. Perfect for OpenGL programming.

>>61075014
It's not truly generic since you still have to write all the functions the macro maps onto. It's an improvement though.

>>61074977
>>61075014

>Add macros for function overloading
>Call it generics

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>>61065951
>>61064526
How can you be on this level of samefag?

>>61075176
Great minds think alike.

>>61073779
>less understandable?
Only for "simple minded" people that is

>>61074191
Java >> 50 ft pile of pajeet feces > C++

>>61075068
>>61075088

It's generics with mandatory specialization, lol. Also, it prevents you from abusing templates. I love it.

>>61075862
And also, VLAs are nice. Do any other languages have them? C++ does not have them AFAIK.

>>61075900

g++ has a compiler extension for them. VLAs were made optional in C11, they're generally considered to be bad.

>>61075862
>Also, it prevents you from abusing ___
Fuck you with your condescension.

>>61075855
I'm not sure what to make of this? Is this bait?

>>61076138
/g/'s really hating on C++ a lot lately.

>>61076256
>lately

>>61075938
By "you" I didn't mean you in particular. I meant it like "a person".

>>61076320
It's been especially bad the past few days.

>>61076346
I've been reading C++ hate threads for as long as I can remember.

>>61076344
I'm aware of that. I don't want to use a language which treats me like a toddler.

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>this thread

>>61076362
Then C is still your best choice. With C++, however, don't forget to wrap your pointer before sticking it into data.

>>61076388
Post the C 3d anime girl with the C++ 300lb fairy

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>>61076404

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>>61076418

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>>61076428

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>>61076434

>>61076434
>>61076442
kek

welp

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>>61068224
>Go or Java
nice runtime and gc m9

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>>61065445
So Rust is for incompetent people?

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>>61069332
>Code of Conduct
Always gets me

>>61079146
Implying that Go's CoC isn't a million times worse.

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>>61079164
Go's code of conduct bans all forms of microagressions: https://golang.org/conduct

>>61079218
Are generics microagressions?

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>>61079218
>https://golang.org/conduct

>Aditya Mukerjee <[email protected]>
>Andrew Gerrand <[email protected]>
>Peggy Li <[email protected]>
>Sarah Adams <[email protected]>
>Steve Francia <[email protected]>
>Verónica López <[email protected]>

>>61079324
Quoting:

Avoid destructive behavior:
*Discussing potentially offensive or sensitive issues; this all too often leads to unnecessary conflict.
*Microaggressions: brief and commonplace verbal, behavioral and environmental indignities that communicate hostile, derogatory or negative slights and insults to a person or group. 

From context, it looks like this may be the case.

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>>61079359
Let it burn. Let it all burn.

>>61065444
For one-offs, use a scope guard (also called final_act, etc.).

>>61079343
>> Aditya Mukerjee
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2401114/Aditya-Mukerjee-flight-Hindu-man-barred-flying-JetBlue-questioned-religion--despite-TSA-clearing-board.html
>> The ordeal began when Mukerjee tested positive to certain explosives, he believes due to anti-bedbug spray.

Kek.

>>61079398
Doesn't work very well when you want to return a value.

>>61079397
this

nim and D > rust and go

>>61081366
Crystal is looking very nice as well

>>61064444
C is garbage

rust might be an ok language in five years

>>61082012
Here's the truth right there.

>>61073086
>C is typesafe
This is the intellectual level of C retards. They don't even understand basic computer science concepts like type safety. Just stop fucking using a language from 1970, surely programming languages have evolved since then. Rust is objectively better than C, stop pretending it isn't, that's just to be expected because it's a recent language with creators that have access to the new theory.

>>61081366
nim looks really nice

>>61082090
Type safety is just an ideology, though. There's nothing necessary about it. If you like it and it makes you productive, then good for you, use it, but don't pretend it's objectively superior.

>>61064513
>LOL C is OOOLLLD you STINKY grandpa
great argument pal.

>>61083399
>old is bad
KILL YOURSELF

>>61083399
to be fair
>C is the only true, good, language.
isn't an argument either


t. cfag

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I usually program directly against the vdso that the kernel injects. That said, I must agree with you in that the standard library is severely crippled when interacting with the host system.

Maybe Rust will become production ready in a couple of years (no, npm dependency shit trees are no an acceptable substitute)

>>61065079
see
>>61085151

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>>61074594
Poor guy. The amount of suffering he must have been put through for his mind to break this badly.

You're a hero Bradly, a fucking hero.

>>61084549
>new is bad
KILL YOURSELF FUCKING SENILE CUNT

>>61083091
>Type safety is just an ideology, though. There's nothing necessary about it.
A type safe language is inherently more safe and less error prone. Most system errors occur because of C being an insecure language that is easy to hack with things like buffer overflows and binary patches that would be impossible with a type safe language. If Rust catches on in systems programming, over night a lot of security vulnerabilities are going to disappear. The people here who are trying to defend C are simply idiots trying to stop something that will inevitably happen. You cant have a rational argument with these people because there is no rational reason they can give to C being the ONLY systems language that people should use. C needs to die, it will die an uneventful death as soon as enough qualified systems programmers start using Rust and produce code that takes a tiny fraction of the time to develop and debug

>rust's entire compiler which is just a LLVM backend is literally implemented in C++ despite all these rust fags claiming it's useless and stupid

>>61064551
>reddit spacing
>reddit pling

>>61085449
>LLVM and Rust are the same project

>C is the only true, good, language.
*C++

>>61085213
>The amount of suffering he must have been put through for his mind to break this badly.
thats not what happened. and hes not a hero hes a pussy and a coward

>>61085907
> Not what happened

Then what happened? From how he was treated, it seems that was exactly what happened. You don't treat human beings like this and expect them to function normally afterwards.

rust seems a little complicated
why is it so popular with people who probably never wrote a line of non-trivial code in their life?

>>61086393
low level programming with memory safety

>>61085355
The problem I see is that a lot of people that develop low level systems in C are not computer scientists. They are EEs, who couldn't give less of a fuck about safety. To persuade them to give up C and instead start fighting a BC will be very hard.
(And the engineers that do care about safety are already using Ada or C with formal verifiers.)

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>>61064444

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>>61065079
nigga......

>>61069096
inb4 its a new language give it time

>>61064710
Not being able to write safe code. There is no verified compiler, nor is there any toolchain that allows you to verify rust code.

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>>61069312
>mfw cargo has a built in git

>>61064444
wtf
no

C# Master Race

>>61065135
Yes, but they are in the standard library.

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>>61064444
checked