Theresa May to launch wide-ranging internet regulation and security

Reminder that Labour had no such plans.

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>>60843205

check the catalog you dumb faggot

>>60843201
If you've got nothing to hide, you've got nothing to worry about. If you're not a kiddy-fiddler like Podesta, a muslim terrorist like Bin Laden or a traitor that sells state secrets like Snowden, you literally don't ever need privacy. Privacy is just a convenience excuse used by criminals and enemies of the state.

>>60843542
Credit card details.
Identity theft.
"Wrong think"

>>60843577
>Credit card details
It's up to the banks to enforce how secure their payment systems are.

>Identity theft
Internet regulation actually reduces identity theft.

>"Wrong think"
Wrong think is the gateway to terrorism. If you aren't morally upstand but keep a fake facade it's actually worse.

>>60843661
>It's up to the banks to enforce how secure their payment systems are.
Hence encryption, HTTPS, SSL certs etc etc

>>60843776
Exactly. Encryption should remain in the hands of corporations that are certified by the government to use such dangerous double-edge swords. It's no business for individuals.

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>>60843476
Why would I listen to a braindead socialist and a chickenhawk warmongerer?

>>60843977
fuck off wanker

>>60843977
That's the spirit. Now, hand over your private keys.

>>60843661
>Wrong think is the gateway to terrorism. If you aren't morally upstand but keep a fake facade it's actually worse.
And uh... who exactly judges the classification for an upstanding citizen then? What's the criteria?

>>60843977
Because when the option is between fascism and socialism you should probably choose the socialist.

>>60843661
>Wrong think is the gateway to terrorism. If you aren't morally upstand but keep a fake facade it's actually worse.
Seems to have turned out well in Sweden.
Oh wait.

>>60843930
You can't ban mathematics.

Even China, Russia, Saudi don't ban encryption.

Is the year 1984?

>>60844105
Of course you can ban mathematics. Anyone who is caught doing them is sent to prison. What part of this do you not understand?

>>60844046
Depends on the type of fascism.

>>60844105
HE'S GOT A CALCULATOR, SEIZE HIM

First you create the problem and then offer the solution.

Let the jihadists back into the country from Libya full knowing they would do something like this.

Glad to see it blew on her face, just not enough.

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>>60843201
I still can't understand how you dipshits from Madenhead didn't vote Lord Buckethead. Anything May does now is your own god damn fault!

Conservashit voters will ruin this country

t. UKIP voter

>>60843930
>Everybody is safe
>A handful of inter-business communications are safe
Hmm, I wonder which one is superior.

>>60844035

why him of course, since he's such an upstanding citizen fighting for our rights and liberties :^)

>>60845050
Everybody is safe if and only if the government has access to all communications in the nation.

>>60845087
That is far more dangerous than the occasional terrorist attack killing a handful of people (which it won't even stop, they will simply stop using it).

>>60845024

it's down to those 5 scottish constitutencies who went tory after at least 2 decades of being snp/lib dem/labour that even gave the tories a chance of forming a coalition in the first place, this was scottish sentiment 20 years ago for some context: www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1uSSRcn7UE

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I hate the EU but holy shit it's impossible to symphatize for the UK either.

>>60844977
>Let the jihadists back into the country from Libya full knowing they would do something like this.
It's not really that simple to restrict people from entering the country, especially if they're UK nationals.

>>60843201
>/pol/cucks will defend this

When a candidate is smeared across left, right, center and endorsed by David Icke, you know they are a genuine threat to the establishment.

>>60845087
that is true, but it's also a slippery slope

>>60845143
It might not be simple, but it is far easier than trying to totally prevent the use of any and all obfuscated communication and then having to go after talking in coffee shops because if encrypted messaging becomes impossible they will simply go back to doing it the old way.

>>60845159

it's not even true unless you consider thought police to be acting in your interest

>>60845173
That was an understatement; what I should have said is that it's basically impossible to restrict citizens from returning to their home country. You can have increased scrutiny on these guys, which I believe they did and still do, but essentially what you're talking about is a ban on travel to Middle East/North African countries, which is problematic for a number of reasons

>>60845212
Again, more problematic than trying to outlaw hundreds of pieces of software on millions of devices, restricting access to those pieces of software without destroying software development in the UK and wrestling half of corporate America into submission? I'm dubious.

You don't need encryption, what are you trying to hide? Anyone against this is basically a cuck because they hate order.

>>60845281
Hand over your chat logs then. I'll be waiting for the pastebin link.

>>60845281
Someone already tried that one.

>>60845303
You haven't answered why you need it

>>60845312
>privacy is bad

>>60845281
...Also hold on, how is opposing order being cucked? Is supplicating to other people not pretty much the definition of being cucked?

>>60845312
but I did.
>>60843577

>>60845312
All your chat logs, now.

>>60845367
>Listening to the ideas of an obvious Jewish plant
Who do you think wants all your data unencrypted, goyim?

>>60845367
>It gives terrorists protection so yes.

ira were bombing northern ireland and england long before encryption was a thing you dumb shit

>>60845390
Hitler wasn't a jew plant, goldberg

>>60845143
They do it all the time in "random" searches at airports, it's not uncommon to get taken aside in Heathrow if your beard is a certain length and you're brown enough
Yet they conveniently neglect to search the guy who's already been reported numerous times returning from a vrazy place like Libya

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>>60845401

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>>60845367
>Hitler
Literally the reason why the Jews are currently so powerful.

>>60845419
>>60845420
More jew lies, you're obviously not white.

>>60845444
>The man who gave the Jews all their power in the modern world was in no way part of the plan
Really makes you think.

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>>60845444
eat shit

>>60845463
Yet another jew lie, hitler was based and got rid of all known marxists and other degenerates.

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>>60843201
UK status changed from KEKED to KEKED TWICE.
And you know what?
UK cunts enjoy this.

>>60845484
Clearly he didn't since marxists and jews run the world now.

>>60845472
Doesn't prove anything that hitler was a jew plant.

>>60843476
Fuck off SJW

>>60845645
Good goy. Encryption is for terrorists.

>>60843476
>>60845725
Ron Paul is a race traitor jew lover, nobody here ever liked him.

>>60843542
What if I happen to think we need less immigration to our tiny island, because this causes a strain on public resources?

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/feb/16/man-arrested-facebook-posts-syrian-refugees-scotland

Or what if I want to quote a former prime minister?

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2014/04/28/uk-cops-arrest-man-for-quoting-churchill/

>>60845312
I have multiple bank details encrypted on my hard drive. I need access to them to pay my bills, but I also need them secure so nobody can take my money.

>>60843542
I bet you don't use https 4chan then.

>>60844046
>Trusting an idiot to completely liquidate your economy's wealth on social programs
I'd rather just leave that country at that point

>>60844024
No.
>Implying socialists don't have a history of violating people's privacy

>>60844046
when it comes to privacy they are one and the same

>>60843201
Honestly can't wait for all those white dudes to be locked up because they criticized religion.

>>60845975
Ron Paul is irrelevant to this conversation. We're discussing English politics.

>>60845024
Here's hoping some of the DUP guys slap down Mays attempts at putting through this internet stuff.

>>60845983
>What if I happen to think we need less immigration

couldn't find said facebook posts but given other highly publicised cases of people being arrested for what they've said on twitter I wouldn't be surprised if the facebook posts were vitriolic

>Or what if I want to quote a former prime minister?

not what he was arrested for, but I do think it's slightly ironic that one of the bills he was arrested for violating was introduced by the conservatives

neither of these situations relate to encryption, they both relate to things people have publicly posted or said

either way, I do think both of these cases should be protected under constitutionally protected free speech and privacy, it's just too bad the uk offers neither of these things and the tories are too interested in eroding our human rights

>>60846374
>desperate naivete

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>>60843542

I know this is bait, but for the sake of others who genuinely think along these lines:

In all the major cases of Muslim terrorism (Westminster, Manchester, London Bridge), rape gangs (Rotherham, Oxford, Telford and many more), etc the culprits have already been known to the authorities and yet they were still allowed to commit their atrocities.

Yet when it comes to "extremists" on the right (nationalists, anti-islam figures, etc) they seem to get swept up pretty efficiently.

May banned Richard Spencer from entering the UK for fear he will give a pro-white speech, whilst openly anti-white, anti-british, hate protests not only get allowed, but in many cases actually protected by police.

The case is the same for most terrorists across Europe, so lack of information is clearly not the issue here.

More information will just mean more being used against the nationalists who actually want to protect this country. There's absolutely no reason to believe Muslims won't get turned a blind eye to as always.

>>60846787
Thank you for your patriotism. Let me see your private keys. You're not some kind of terrorist, are you?

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>>60846959

I'm a good citizen so I don't use keys of any kind. Keys have pointy edges which could be dangerous.

>>60846787

They didn't stop Jo Cox's killer.

>>60846787

>Richer Spencer being "pro white"

since when is being a nazi pro white?

>>60847203
Since 1920.

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>>60843205
Neither did UKIP
You lads failed big nige

>Americunt
>moved to England two weeks ago
>HDD on shitbox T60 is encrypted
How fucked am I?

>>60847300

not as fucked as you'll be when you have to take that back through us customs

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>>60847173

Fair point. Because of that one white guy (who was denied medical treatment the day before) killed an MP we should remember that we are all just as prone to violence as the Muslims who committed almost every other major UK atrocity this century.

>>60847276

I did my bit for our Nige and voted UKIP. I hope Nige comes back as leader now Nuttall's resigned.

>>60847203

He's not a Nazi. Nazis would never say speak so kindly of homosexuality as he does.

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>>60847494
Good lad, you did the right thing

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>>60844046
>fascism isn't socialism
>national socialist party is right wing
>socialism is about small government and less regulation
>aligning yourself with either party means you're the very extreme of it and agree 100% with all of their policies
very funny desu

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Meanwhile in Canada

https://twitter.com/JustinTrudeau/status/873600926128504832

https://twitter.com/JustinTrudeau/status/873601054226698242

>Elsewhere in the manifesto, Corbyn said "publicly funded software and hardware" should be open source – making it possible for anyone to recreate and use the creations.
Jezza confirmed /ourguy/

http://www.wired.co.uk/article/jeremy-corbyn-digital-democracy-manifesto

>>60847513
>those teeth
jesus christ, if you're going white supremacy at least go with someone that actually sets the standards

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>>60843201
>suggesting that she might look to shut down or ban companies that didn't comply with her controversial proposals
You can't shut them down when literally every major website that matters operates out of the US.

>>60847751
>UKIP
>white supremacy
lmao

they shit on polaks because they are white while not daring say anything negative about darkies.

>>60845484
no son
the SS did all the work and blamed hitler for it
their plan was to unite europe with germany at the helm controlling all of the economy, and break up the ussr and yugoslavia... which all happened
ww2 wasn't about ideology, it was about securing money and power
more than half of the surviving documents about world wide spy games, true agendas of various factions of various nations, and etc have yet to be declassified
what we know for sure is that hitler was part jew and part of (((their))) master plan to seize control over the world's financial systems

>>60847796
then whats the point you cuck

>>60844011
kys dumb cunt

>>60847672
>meanwhile if you insult trannys you go to jail

lmao at you smelly nu male leafcuck.
Tech wont matter when people are raping your mum

>>60846787
>In all the major cases of Muslim [...] rape gangs (Rotherham, Oxford, Telford and many more), etc the culprits have already been known to the authorities and yet they were still allowed to commit their atrocities.

wow, it's almost as if you took some of the publicised cases of mudslime rape gangs and ignored all the britfag rape gangs that had people covering up for them, the most recent case being jimmy savile - never mind the countless times the catholic church covered up the abuses of their priests and impeded police investigations by moving priests from church to church

even the founder of the democratic unionist party, ian paisley, was involved in a cover up through not reporting information to the police that one of his close allies was fiddling kids - yes, the same democratic unionist party that is now forming a coalition with the tory cunts

hell while we're on the topic, both a british and an american agent working for mi5 knew in advanced that a car bomb was heading to omagh, and if that isn't enough, gchq were listening live to the mobile calls as it was happening - neither agency informed omagh police of the matter

or how about those secret letters northern irish police gave to ira agents on the run from english police that granted them immunity - which in one case led to the collapse of a trial for a car bomber, at least the DUP were against this one - but they were the wrong type of nationalists as far as the DUP is concerned

if you want to hate muslims go ahead, but don't coat it in a thin veneer of 'but when it's nationalists or white people doing it the police crack down on it immediately'

Why not just strengthen Immigration Laws?

>>60847672

canada isn't immune from it, c-51 ran amok for well over a year and it's looking doubtful as to whether csis will even be penalised for it

>>60847713

this might be in relation to things like gov.uk which are open source under permissive licences - about the only good thing our government has done of late

https://github.com/alphagov

just like government funded research, if government funded development of software or hardware isn't open source/open hardware what's the point in funding it through the taxpayer?

>>60847796
>they shit on polaks because they are white

poles aren't ethnically white as far as white nationalists are concerned, same for irish, jews, italians, eastern europeans et al

>while not daring say anything negative about darkies

I shared similar views pre-2010 when the BNP were still a thing and had the bulk of the racist lunatics, however you have to have been living under the rock to have avoided the public racism a good deal of ukip members have shared

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2013/02/ukip-party-bigots-lets-look-evidence
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/nigel-farage/11467713/No-dogs.-No-blacks.-No-Irish-is-now-Ukip-policy.html
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/ukip-general-election-paddy-singh-north-wiltshire-candidate-suspended-racist-tweets-holocaust-a7746041.html
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-40211531

>>60847873

not even close to what the law is about nor how it is going to be interpreted in the courts but carry on you disinformation spreading shill

>UK thinks they're just going to be able to shutdown it censor non complying companies services
>many of these services being American made and based in the US
>like Google and FB

Enjoy your shitty hugbox abortion subnet you yellow teeth cucks.

>>60847986
Because that would be intolerant, racist, xenophobic, and triggering anon. While we can agree to disagree, the new Internet censorships prohibit criticizing immigration laws, Muslims, and Islam. The authorities are on their way to your home as I type this.

Hopefully you can be rehabilitated to the right way of thinking

>>60846787
And then they say shit/pol/sting wont fry your brain. Clearly this stormwiene is way beyond crispiness.

>>60843201
who cares, they are out of the EU, not gonna affect the rest of the EU.
funny that if they were in the EU, such regulations would not have been allowed by the EU.

She may or she may not

>>60845645
>>60843977
https://www.dailystormer.com/this-is-real-im-not-joking-about-endorsing-jeremy-corbyn/

>>60845041
Reminder that most UKIP voters went Labour.

>>60843542
Is it too much for privacy too much for people to fuck off and stay out of our shit, its like having a peeping tom, "Well I have nothing to hide". I just want companies not to be up my asshole 24/7. Heres your (you)

>>60843201
>let in muslims
>forced to give up your privacy because of muslims
WOW. Its like this world cant be any more backwards.

>ITS FOR YOUR SAFETY GOY

>>60845281
My cuck porn faggot, I would rather the world didn't know about my fetishes.

If gays can use the "none of your business behind closed doors" bullshit then so can I.

>>60843201
1. She can't because hung parliament
2. The more she and the Tories push this the more they will lose power.
3. Ukip/dup might return otherwise you will see the birth of new parties

People are fed up with Orwell being reality. Tories are going to destroy themselves over this issue and it will be fucking sad to see since Labour are Marxists and will destroy Brittain.

But what's to save. UK is dead corpse already residents of it are just realizing the corpse is rotting and the maggots are coming out.

>>60843542
Privacy is a basic human right. In the US we have the constitution which is suppose to guarantee it but sadly people like you have been allowed to erode it over the past few decades.

If you keep trying to take people's privacy away eventually you will find yourself hanging from a tree. Time is not your friend shill.

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>>60847986
Protip: If you are cracking down on free speech and individual rights, it's not because you actually give a shit about your citizens.

UK fags like to talk shit, but this is exactly why our forefathers wrote the bill of rights the way they did, this shit happens all the fucking time all over the world.

People never change, they just forget really easy.

>>60850532
The problem is that the right to privacy is only implied, this allows courts and politicians to shit all over an otherwise perfectly clear document.

It's the same reason "Hate speech" isnt protected even though its no different from anything else.

I blame democrats, you can't tell me they aren't the nigger party because they clearly can't fucking read the constitution. Not that Republicans are innocent, thanks G.W. Bush RIP in piss you faggot.

>>60850548
Yes, because the US is well known for its extensive digital rights and lack of invasion of privacy by government organisations, right?

>>60850936
Well, I call people niggers online all the time and I've never been arrested, nigger.

Hell I'll even say this:
Islam is shit, behead all Muslims, race war now!!!!1!

....nope, no cops at my door.

Your constant dismissal of your own problems because "at least we aren't America" has lead you to this point, you reap what you sow.

But hey, with your free speech banning you definitely aren't like America now! How progressive of you!

Now excuse me while I go deport some Mexicans.

>>60844105
>>>60843930
>You can't ban mathematics.
>Even Russia don't ban encryption.
But it do. You can't import European version of ps4, many satphones or digital handheld radios and many other electronics because they are not approved by FSB as legal cryptographic device.
And Russia is in the process of banning vpns and getting full access to social networks and messaging services user data

>>60851201

What a great future, every personal information in the hand of mobs.

>>60851201
source?

>>60851264 use google translate or whatever
https://rublacklist.net/27951/
https://rublacklist.net/29198/

will /g/ be better without britbongs?

>>60851420
the amount of poojets will go down so yeah

Dunno about anyone else but i will literally (as in factually) take violent guerilla action against the state as soon as any draconian shit is passed. Its gonna be 911 2

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>>60851570
Meanwhile, outside Anon's front door...

>>60851581
You mean outside all our front doors when we get rounded up for visiting 'that sick sexual deviant antisocial message board'

>>60846787
This is what is happening. These suspects were known for a long time before the attacks, but the attacks were allowed, because the aim is not to ban maths, it's not to ban the encryption that is possible, it's to ban encryption that people use. Like whatsapp and such. They want to remove encryption not from reality (which is impossible, anyone with access to a laptop can write their own crypto, since crypto is prime numbers and multiplication). They want normal people to not be secure.

It's either this or they're actually stupid.

>>60851741
>It's either this or they're actually stupid.
We're talking about people who are 50-something or 40-something and are completely clueless when it comes to computers and technology in general.

>>60843205
Reminder that Labour are full of SJW womyn who are constantly talking about 'ending online hate'
What do you idiots think that means? Censorship

Voting for the Labour cucks because you think they will 'save' the internet is beyond retarded

>a womyn Labour MP had some guy arrested because he called her a jew on Twitter

>>60851825
It's almost as if the big parties want population control, but use different social motivations to have the population let them do it.

>>60845312
Protection of important business data, private collection of all my family photos from last 20 years, backups of site's database with hundreds of lawfully protected people's data.
Should I elaborate more?

You can't ban encryption. If you attempt to do that in non-faggot countries in eastern europe you will face the consequences from angry citizens.
UK people were always cunts who prefer 100% protection in exchange for civil liberties. 1984 has predicted this.

>>60851859
No, you actually CAN'T ban encryption. It's maths.
To ban it you'd have to ban computers.

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>>60851873
Whatever. Make it illegal.
I just don't understand why we got this thread on /g/. Who gives a fuck what this shithole youkey subcountry does?
Fuck them. Bunch of fags.

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>>60851894
This picture always makes me laugh.
I'm glad they decided to leave EU. Maybe with less cancer in charge we can reform and change this institution.

>>60851873

They're not going to ban encryption, they are going the pass laws which means you need to give them the keys to decrypt any encryption you use. If you don't you as an individual will be thrown in jail or face huge fines (depending on how much they want your data) and as a corporation you won't be allowed to do business.

>>60851894
Why are retarded Amerifats always defending getting stabbed by some nutcase? What is so good about it?

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>>60850967
SHUT UP, FUCKING BURGER!!!
WE ARE BETTER THAN YOU!!!!
FUCK PRUMPF REEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!

>>60851911
America already do that

>land of the free

>>60851911
But that's impossible too. Non backdoored encryption is freely available on the internet.
Terrorists will use that.

Or you know, meet up in person and just talk in private, like they did before encryption.

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>>60851916
Best thing you faggots ever gave us was Earl Grey, and we made it even better by putting it on ice.

Git Gud Bongs.

>>60851933
If you can't stop terrorists from getting bombs you DEFINTELY can't stop them from accessing a website with nonbackdoored encryption on it, and even if you could, good luck stopping someone from literally just writing their own non-backdoored crypto. It'd be trash most likely but it'd probably stump law enforcement long enough to accomplish a goal.

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>>60851910
lmao this came to the point where cctv cameras in london have integrated speakers, so the cop watching you can order you remotely to stop and wait for police arrival if you do something (((((illegal))))) or you're just suspicious.
Land of the free.
>>60851915
Why are retarded shitposters like you allowed to even post on 4chan?
You can't even carry a multitool in UK if it's a "hidden" knife, which means ANY SAK or multitool. You don't stab people with small SAK, do you?

>>60851941
And besides: Today's backdoor is tommorrow's russian hack.
The entire fucking world is scouring software looking for backdoors. So why make more?

>>60851915
>nutcases are obeying the law!
>let's make poverty illegal! This will solve all the problems!
get back into your containment zone, dumb britbong

>>60851943
>posts picture of a knife bin
>then moves the goalposts
>thinks cctv cameras "speak" to people
>calls me a shitposter
Fuck off retarded Amerifat

>>60851949
>stabbing people with knives is obeying the law
this is retarded even for an amerifat

>>60851974
I'm not an american you dumb nigger.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/6524495.stm
>"Talking" CCTV cameras that tell off people dropping litter or committing anti-social behaviour are to be extended to 20 areas across England.
>anti-social behaviour
>dropping litter
Check you facts, britfag.

>>60851938
we leant you the english language and you still haven't managed to learn it properly

git gud clapfats

>>60851992
Who are you quoting, retard?
If this is the '""logic""" britfags are using no wonder they trade civil liberties and right to self defense for (((((protection))))) from the state.

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>>60851999
>Implying
Face it dad, we learned this shit from the best.

>>60851997
>10 year old article that never actually happened
>let me tell you about your country that I don't live in
Nah, fuck you. You should check your facts

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>>60851997
>Home Secretary John Reid told BBC News there would be some people, "in the minority who will be more concerned about what they claim are civil liberties intrusions".

>>60852013
The fact that this is 10 years old is even more shocking.
>that never actually happened
BBC says otherwise. Feel free to PROVE me wrong. With data and actual source, of course.

>>60852007
Your post literally said nutcases are obeying the law by carrying knives and stabbing people with them

If this is the '""logic""" Amerifats are using it's no wonder they are regarded as the world's stupidest people and are happy with weekly mass shootings

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>>60851825
>Abloo abloo I can't be a Nazi on the internet :(((((((
I only want to vote Labour even more now.

>>60852030
>BBC says otherwise
Ok, let's see some follow-up articles about the 'scheduled' installations that aren't 10 years old. In your own time

>>60852031
I don't think you understand how meme arrows work on 4chan.
nutcases don't give a fuck about law. If they want to carry a knife to stab bunch of people they will.
By completely banning knives for everyone you take the ability to defend yourself from normal people.

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Why is mass surveillance bad? We wouldn't know that the Trump campaign had so many contacts with Russians if not for that. It's quite literally saving our democracy.

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>>60852033
Of course you do cuck

>>60843205
Conservative Plan:
>Misguided and poorly rationalised attempt to limit ease of access to unbreakable encrypted communications
Labour Plan:
>Decriminalise crime and nationalise terrorism to reduce terrorist attacks to an all-time-low.

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>>60852052
>his life is so empty he calls other people "cucks" on the internet

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>>60852046
>everyone should be carrying self defence knives so we can all be sure we can stab each other!
>why are there so many stabbings happening??
And the Amerifat shows his stupidity

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>>60852069
>his life is so empty he whiteknights cucks on the internet

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>>60852070

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>>60852077
>his life is so empty he gets his sense of identity and world view from 4chan memes

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>>60852070
Who are you quoting?
I know you're trolling, but seriously I'm happy that uk cancer is contained from the main land. Ban as many civil liberties as you can. Take as many refugees as you can. The sooner you face extinction the better. :^)

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>>60852102
>he is so underage he thinks cuckoldry was invented by 4chan
>and he is extremely triggered by it

>>60852117
Who are you quoting?

>Ban as many civil liberties as you can. Take as many refugees as you can
The mainland has done much more of this than we have, so you'll be extinct first. Enjoy :^)

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>>60852088
quality rebuttal

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>>60852127
Except I didn't say that you cotton headed ninny muggins.

>>60852141
>EU is one country.
Poland accepted ZERO refugees.
Believe me, it feels great to live in 100% white country with no criminals, no islam, no terror attacks.

>>60850532
nothing is a "right". fuck the entire ideology of "human rights". i only believe in liberty -- liberty only in the descriptive sense, not the normative one - because humans, as yet have minds that are free to think and control our bodies and our environment and thus secure for ourselves property and privacy ... though the infantilization of the public and their susceptibility to propaganda, brainwashing, and herd mentality does undermine that.

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>>60852156
yet, you can carry as many pepper gas cans/knives/machetes/swords/extendable police batons with no permit as you can.
Getting a gun license takes 2 months and you can even get full automatic weapons. Yet, there are no shootings. No niggers. No mudslimes.
So yeah, enjoy your police state, britcucks :^)

>>60852156
hitler was right about the poles

>>60852172
So you don't believe you have the right to liberty?

>>60852181
Is that why UK was almost purged off this planet during WWII?
Hitler was so right about britcucks.

>>60852187
no, i dont believe in "the right to liberty", because there is no such thing as a right. i believe that i -am- free, and that no laws or chains or prisons can stop that:
"L'homme est libre au moment qu'il veut l'être." Voltaire
"Free yourself from mental slavery, none but yourself can free your mind" Bob Marley

>>60852187
he's trolling, you know that?

>>60852156
>100% white
youve got tons of vietnamese, nigerians, and ameri-mongrels from (((NATO))), and a beauty contest for "bi-racial" poles.
and thats not even counting how most of the people is jewish to begin with.
i hardly think you can call it "white"

Just use tor ffs

If it gets around chink censorship then it'll sure as hell work for the Mummywall

>>60852235
Someone shove this guy in a mental asylum.

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>>60852280
>youve got tons of vietnamese, nigerians, and ameri-mongrels from (((NATO))), and a beauty contest for "bi-racial" poles.
source on that, sempai. :^)

>>60852156
>>60852180
Poland accepted loads of refugees, they just left the country when they realised it was shitter than the ones they originally came from

Most of your population also realised how shit your country is so they flocked over here en masse to clean our toilets for pennies as soon as they could

So yeah, get rekt :^)

>>60852367
>loads
Around 300 """""people""""". By private organisations. Government refused to accept any islamic refugees.
>they just left the country when they realised it was shitter
No, they left because poland has almost no social services system. So no free monies, like in germany.
>so they flocked over here en masse to clean our toilets for pennies as soon as they could
>most
no, not most. Only uneducated people uncapable of finding any jobs from poorest areas.
So they moved to UK and Germany where free monies is given to anyone.
Basically we cleaned our own society by opening borders to other EU countries :^) :^)

>>60844349
>>60851201
So? You can't still ban mathematics.
You can encrypt files with really simple algorithm on any computers/smartphones.

You think gov*rnment can ban computers? smartphones? calculators?

>>60845398
>lol what is the enigma machine
>lol what are ceserian cyphers
you are so dumb liek forreal

>>60845367
>>>/pol/
We have no time to read your bullshit

>>60847948
>these laws are being passed in an effort to crack down on terrorism and exploding crime rates in europe
>most terrorism carried out by muslims and islamic migrants have been linked to rise in crime
>point out that even when the authorities have knowledge of horrific crimes being committed by muslims they do nothing to stop it
>get called racist

boi are you so dumb to not understand that all you did was whataboutism to anon when anon was attacking the justifications being used to implement these laws

we are on the same side here lad no need to be a cunt about it

>>60852456

>You can encrypt files with really simple algorithm on any computers/smartphones.

Of course you can, but if the government want you to decrypt them you better do so or be thrown in jail.

Likewise when the government monitoring all internet traffic comes across encrypted information it can't decrypt, it is redflagged and the ip tracked, the source identified (as far as they can) and if they want to they can then compel the source under the same laws to decrypt said data.

It's basically a totalitarian regime by controlling nearly all flow of information.

I've had a horrible thought. One day, these threads will all disappear. People will be sick of posting in them, and it'll be old news.

But if the conspiracy theorists aren't here posting threads, how will we be sure they haven't genuinely been "disappeared"?

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>>60848867
>I don't like socialism and Antifags
>That must mean I'm a NEETsocs
Nice false dichotomy. Although that title is pretty fucking funny in hindsight though

>>60851915
>someone draws knife on an American
>gets shot
Only in the cities where guns are restricted do people get stabbed in America. The safest town I've ever been in allowed open carry, but most of the residents C&C'd instead. Not a single mugging, break-in, or murder in that town for nearly 20 years, and any scuffle is immediately broken up by bystanders, who are also probably armed.

>>60843542
Saying you don't need privacy because you have nothing to say is like saying that you don't need freedom of speech because you have nothing to say.

>>60852070
>Gun violence
You mean suicides, self-defencse homiceides and gun accidents which constitute the majority of "gun violence" (which it wouldn't even protect against anyways) or are you going to keep being vauge about it?

>>60855567
*self-defense related
homicide

>>60852051
>Being so cucked you actually are defending mass surveillance
I wonder what it's like being as retarded as you are.
Also,
>He believes Russia hacked US elections and China isn't the main cybersecurity threat in the world

>>60852033
>He doesn't want Theresa May to censor the internet
>He wants to censor people that have far-right views on the internet though for so-called "hate speech"
Really firing up the neurons

>>60852051
Wouldn't (and really shouldn't) they have told the voting public that Trump is under suspicion of Russian contacts and shit if they had that information prior to the November 9th election date if it were somewhat valid, like they did with the Clinton case during that same period of time?

>>60855836
Uh, they fucking did tell us? This Russia thing started before November 8.

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>>60855631
How does that make sense? China being a bigger threat doesn't mean that Russia can't also be a threat.

>>60856295
>>60856326
If Russia is such a threat, how come the DNC didn't allow the FBI to look at their servers when the investigation was somewhat relevant?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50GO7RJTcWc

>>60856326
The CIA literally has tools to pretend to be russian when hacking places, and the CIA has a history of always lying. The CIA hasn't told the truth about international blame ever. Oh I'm sure this isn't the third red scare to hype up the public into agreeing to some aggressive cyber-warfare and economic sanctions.
you know, like the other ones.

>>60852403
kek, the britcuck got rekt

>>60856460
Because the DNC is corrupt. Doesn't change the fact that Russia did it.

>>60856513
McCarthy was actually stunningly accurate in who he accused of being Russian spies. Bringing that up doesn't help your case, the threat back then was extremely legitimate. The public's reaction to it was overkill.

And the CIA would be the first to be able to recognize their own tools. Are you actually suggesting the CIA hacked the DNC and VR Systems and several other election officials which had the effect of hurting Hillary's campaign, in order to sabotage Donald Trump?

>>60856598
So the FBI (an "intelligence" agency) is supposed to rely on third-hand reports by private companies that could easily manipulate or manufacture evidence to investigate someone's servers rather than do it with their own resources, where something like that would be found out and punished almost immediately?

>>60856628
> The CIA's Remote Devices Branch's UMBRAGE group collects and maintains a substantial library of attack techniques 'stolen' from malware produced in other states including the Russian Federation.

> With UMBRAGE and related projects the CIA cannot only increase its total number of attack types but also misdirect attribution by leaving behind the "fingerprints" of the groups that the attack techniques were stolen from.

> UMBRAGE components cover keyloggers, password collection, webcam capture, data destruction, persistence, privilege escalation, stealth, anti-virus (PSP) avoidance and survey techniques.

>Recently, the CIA lost control of the majority of its hacking arsenal including malware, viruses, trojans, weaponized "zero day" exploits, malware remote control systems and associated documentation. This extraordinary collection, which amounts to more than several hundred million lines of code, gives its possessor the entire hacking capacity of the CIA. The archive appears to have been circulated among former U.S. government hackers and contractors in an unauthorized manner, one of whom has provided WikiLeaks with portions of the archive.

From https://wikileaks.org/ciav7p1/

He's suggesting (rightfully) that the CIA is full of idiots who are trying to put the blame on someone else of their fuckups.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fCESxU1Ccs

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>>60856678
>REEEEEEEEEEEEEEE IT WASN'T RUSSIA REEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Whatever you say Ivan. I'm sorry, but I trust the boy scout who can only say "gosh" and "lordy" as curse words over a pathological liar who has 5 children from 3 different women (would be 6 from 4 if he didn't pressure his mistress into getting an abortion).

>>60856858
That's the problem. We actually have no idea who did it. If you have someone that leaks software that can be traced back to multiple countries in the world to other intelligence agencies, pointing the blame at one singular country is pretty fucking stupid. Also the CIA literally toppled multiple South American regimes in the 70s has ties to drug cartels in Mexico and literally experimented with brainwashing and propaganda back in the day too, not to mention lied about WMDs in Iraq. I'd rather trust some fat fuck who is a relativly piggish than anyone that works there anyday, or at any intelligence agency since pretty much all of them are culpable for lying to the American people repeatedly, mostly on disply during that WMD debacle in the early 2000s. Of course you're stupid so you'll probably trust these people.

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>every politics thread on 4chan

>>60856968
Putin fucking said himself that it "could have been" patriotic Russians acting on their own accord after vehemently denying it for so long. Ring any bells?

>>60845041
Based DUP will save us
t. Other UKIP voter

>>60857208
That's literally what I'm saying: Anyone could have done done to supposed hacks (really leaks but we're not here to argue over terminology). It literally could have been a Brazillian eating sopa de macao since the CIA did leak all of their fingerprint spoofing software to the whole entire world at large. It also could have been Ivan and the crew. It also could have been Mohammed and his 4 wives in Afghanistan. There's no way to tell at this point.

This is an English politics thread. Burgerclaps get out.

>>60857302
*Anyone could have done the supposed hacks

>>60857302
So I guess his excuse didn't ring any bells and I have to explain why that excuse is suspicious. In Crimea and Eastern Ukraine, Putin vehemently denied any Russian government involvement with the rebels. Then he conceded it was "patriotic Russians acting on their own accord" (with very expensive military gear...). Then when the proof became undeniable, Crimea was already annexed.

And no, it could not have been anyone. In another testimony, the FBI said that their estimate for how much this effort cost was in the millions of dollars with thousands of employees. This was not some dude in Afghanistan or a script kiddie in New Jersey. This was a very rich organization with the ability to keep their employees from coming forward.

>>60843201
Everything that has happened in England in the past few years has made me fucking glad I left. What a shitty "1st world" country.

>>60852403
>So they moved to UK and Germany where free monies is given to anyone.

So they followed the same path as your own "people"

bravo Poland

>>60857493
Well that was a military invasion where there was undeniable proof that the Russians were involved (seeing they were using Russian military gear and all) over territory Russia wanted. No shit Russia invaded the Eastern Ukraine and Crimea. Meanwhile, here we have a case where like you said all you need is a rich organization with the ability to keep their employees form coming forward, which is basically is a good description of most intelligence agencies around the world like Mossad, the CIA, MI6 and the like. So we've reduced it from any random person to bureaucracies that are opaque and aren't kept in check by their host gov'ts. Yeah, that really clears up the shituation. It's not like any gov't can use a cyberattack to attack us at whim and make it seem like another nation not remotely involved did it in the first place. The difference between the Russian annexation of Crimea and the current situation at hand is literally the fact that it was immediately clear that Putin was trying to invade the Ukraine since a lot of those tanks and artillery were of the Russian variety, which frankly isn't that easy to copy in any sort of way (at least compared to software). In this case, we have literally a few hundred possible culprits and anyone of them is equally likely due to the fact that anyone can essentially spoof another country and launch a cyberattack there, all because of the idiocy of the people in the CIA.

>actually getting baited by the "nutin to hide nutin 2 fear"

>>60857777
The list of candidates is pretty slim. China would not hack us to help a populist that hates China. Iran has no reason to help a guy that hates the Iran deal and defers to Mattis on most issues related to Iran. Western Europe hates Trump, and Eastern Europe (besides Russia) doesn't have the resources for this kind of cyber warfare. Nigeria is too busy trying to find their prince's nephew to do it. Latin America hates Trump for obvious reasons. The list of countries with the resources for this kind of cyber warfare, and with the motive (Trump being critical of NATO on the campaign trail and praising Putin's leadership among other things, and Hillary being an aggressive war hawk against Russia), is not very big. RT shilled for Trump very hard during the election and still does.

>>60843542
You sure do like posting that, don't you?
https://archive.rebeccablacktech.com/g/search/text/you%20literally%20don%27t%20ever%20need%20privacy/

>trying to compensate for intelligence failures by legislating
they have more data than they deal with already and this cunt thinks drowning the spooks in even more data is the solution

>>60843201
Yep, she'll be gone before the year's out. Jesus, this is like a manual for how to go full retard.

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Feels good living in a free nation britfags.

>>60857865
It's always posted every single thread yet /g/ keeps falling for it.

>>60843205
Because they are weak now. /leftypol/ is just another kind of /pol/ bullshit.

>>60857920
Yet Trump has many ties to the Chinese gov't to the point that he even bragged that the Bank of China is leasing one of his buildings, not to mention they were able to steal credit card info from thousands of Americans and military secrets too. Also, no one cares about the Iran deal. Despite people saying that it will be the end of the world if Iran gets nuclear weapons if the Iran deal is ended, the type of uranium that Iran is using isn't consistent with the type that is actually used for making nukes like Kim Jong Un is using. Also, I'm surprised you didn't mention Israel since Trump is prety close to Bibi and their intel agency Mossad is eons ahead of that of Russia (to the point that they literally are in the same position China is in right now by stealing our military secrets and having essentially people in the gov't lobby for them). Not to mention, the Democratic Party as a whole has been strongly anti-Israel. Honestly, if any country did hack the DNC servers (hint: they weren't hacked. Why do you think the DNC didn't let the FBI look at their servers when they offered to do it?), it probably would be a party that has much more to gain in that respect than Russia like China or Israel. I these are states with literal cyberterrorism squads of sorts compared to Russia, which invests more heavily in it's military than anything else.

if we don't create a dystopian panopticon state the terrorists win

>>60857986
>Feels good living in a free nation britfags.
which nation is that?

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>>60858128
Jesus Christ. Even if you leave the DNC out of it, someone tried to hack VR Systems (a private contractor that makes the software that maintains the voter rolls in several states) and other computers involved in the election. They were not trying to change the vote tallies after the fact, but they could have been trying to change people's voter registration info so that their votes aren't counted. We had unusually long lines for people forced to cast provisional ballots (what happens when your voter registration has an error) this election. And then they also used they data they got to target advertising to moderates in swing states. Even if you leave the DNC hack out if this, this should get your blood boiling. Your party may have benefitted from foreign interference this time, but hostile foreigners don't have any party allegiance or ideology. They will help whoever they think will help them, even if it doesn't require collusion. Trump may very well have not colluded with Russia, his affection for Putin and hatred for NATO could be genuine, and Russia intervened to help him win of their own accord. We still need to punish the fuck out of Russia because the precedent that doing nothing would create would be disastrous. If foreign countries see that we will fuck their shit up for trying to interfere in our elections, they will be less likely to try. If they see that people like you don't care, they'll be emboldened in their efforts.

The scary thing is that Trump has not expressed any concern at all. He has not called for an independent investigation to find the real culprit if it wasn't Russia. He should be up in arms about this, trying to find the real culprit as fast as possible. Why isn't he? Why doesn't he seem to care?

>>60858374
Why would he? Shillary got btfo rightfully so. I'm glad the stupid cunt will die with her legacy being that she lost to a retard like Trump. She's an evil manipulative bitch. Not unlike nearly every political figure in the states. If the world ends I say good, it was worth it to spite the cunt

>>60858374
>The scary thing is that Trump has not expressed any concern at all. He has not called for an independent investigation to find the real culprit if it wasn't Russia. He should be up in arms about this, trying to find the real culprit as fast as possible. Why isn't he? Why doesn't he seem to care?
Because he is certain and already knows the answer: either he is certain that RUS was involved or that they were not. In the end, since he already knows the outcome, it is foolish to spend money in a 'investigation' since he already won.

>freedom
>security
>multiculturalism

Choose two.

>>60858417
>>60858420
The investigation would not be about re litigating the election. It would be about making sure this never happens again. Why aren't you on board with that? Democrats could be the beneficiaries the next time around. If Trump did not collude with Russia, any investigation will result in him getting to be president for his full term.

And if Trump does know who really did it, why isn't he telling us? It would clear his name with regards to the Russia scandal. An investigation would not be a waste of money, because he clearly doesn't know.

>>60858374
Except that part before where I said the CIA literally leaked software that allows basically any other intelligence agency in the world to spoof another country at whim, so we literally do not know who did it because there are multiple intelligence agencies around the world that hold this same software and they aren't going to talk at all. It honestly could be Russia, but at the same time it could be Israel, China, Iran or even our intelligence agencies trying to stir up shit, not to mention our literal national enemies at this point. We simply really don't know. The worst part of it is that if a real honest to god cyberattack occurs that takes out the US electrical grid or destroys our economy occurs, we literally don't know who did it. That's what really should make you make: the CIA basically fucked our national security up the ass in order to play stupid games overseas.

Also, there is an investigation by these same agencies ironically to get to the bottom of that whole supposed problem and they are independent (or at least should be) of the political apparatus so there you go.

Saying Russia is the root of all evil is pointles because we're literally in a situation where our intel agencies have very possibly sewn the root of discord in our national elections due to the fact that they can't keep a secret a secret.

>>60858374
T b H I think he believes what he says

and since HE didn't collude with Russia, he assumes that ALL stories about that are fake, trumped up by MSM

>>60850532
Privacy is not a right in the US

>>60850532
>If you keep trying to take people's privacy away eventually you will find them worshipping you as their protector and savior
FTFY

>>60858525
You're making no sense. The CIA created this program to falsify fingerprints. They would know what falsified fingerprints look like if it came from their own program.

The existing investigations have all pointed the finger at Russia. They've literally stated it was unequivocally Russia and there's no fuzz about it. If Trump has intel that it's not Russia, he should share it with them or start an independent investigation.

I'm not saying that Russia is the root of all evil. I'm not a Russophobe. I like Russian culture and Russian people. I do not like the actions of a specific group of people in the Russian government.

>>60848877
Which was the best way to get the conservatives to fuck off.

>>60852033
Even Stephen Hawking shat on your idol yet here you are talking the dumb shit you do.
Remarkable.

>>60858549
The fourth amendment disagrees.

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>Complain about the EU for years
>Leave
>Become airstrip one for the US, total surveillance state instead
>Durka durkas still there

really activates the old almonds britcucks

I'm laughing at every brit who didn't vote for Jeremy Corbyn
Hahahahahahahahaha

>>60858774
>praise the EU for years
>stay
>become a strong independent European state that gets flooded by uncontrollable immigration

>>60858589
>They would know what falsified fingerprints look like if it came from their own program.
You aren't getting the part where they essentially gave this very sensitive information to other intelligence agencies, who in turn did the same and do on to the point that Russian intel agencies, Chinese intel agencies, N. Korean intel agencies and intel agencies across Europe and most of the world at this point have this info. And it wasn't just Russian malware, it was malware from across the world too hence this from Wikileaks' Vault7 release:
>Recently, the CIA lost control of the majority of its hacking arsenal including malware, viruses, trojans, weaponized "zero day" exploits, malware remote control systems and associated documentation. This extraordinary collection, which amounts to more than several hundred million lines of code, gives its possessor the entire hacking capacity of the CIA. The archive appears to have been circulated among former U.S. government hackers and contractors in an unauthorized manner, one of whom has provided WikiLeaks with portions of the archive.

>The CIA's Remote Devices Branch's UMBRAGE group collects and maintains a substantial library of attack techniques 'stolen' from malware produced in other states including the Russian Federation.

>With UMBRAGE and related projects the CIA cannot only increase its total number of attack types but also misdirect attribution by leaving behind the "fingerprints" of the groups that the attack techniques were stolen from.

>UMBRAGE components cover keyloggers, password collection, webcam capture, data destruction, persistence, privilege escalation, stealth, anti-virus (PSP) avoidance and survey techniques.
Note they didn't say just limited to the Russian Federation, but including the Russian Federation.
So , the CIA has muddied the waters on a potential attack on another state be releasing it's own spoofing software into the wild

>>60858793
>booo hooo all these white polish people coming into my country working, paying taxes

it's not the EU's fault they decide to import Pakistanis and Indians

>>60858816
Here's my source: https://wikileaks.org/ciav7p1/

>>60858781
>voting for a literal cuck
He's as bad as May. Dead race.

>>60843201

Less Whites = Less Rights

>>60858842
>Have the choice between a leftist retard or conservative retard.
Those poor brits, luckily the US had the choice between a smart conservative and a letist retard.

>>60858838
UMBRAGE

>The CIA's hand crafted hacking techniques pose a problem for the agency. Each technique it has created forms a "fingerprint" that can be used by forensic investigators to attribute multiple different attacks to the same entity.

>This is analogous to finding the same distinctive knife wound on multiple separate murder victims. The unique wounding style creates suspicion that a single murderer is responsible. As soon one murder in the set is solved then the other murders also find likely attribution.

>The CIA's Remote Devices Branch's UMBRAGE group collects and maintains a substantial library of attack techniques 'stolen' from malware produced in other states including the Russian Federation.

>With UMBRAGE and related projects the CIA cannot only increase its total number of attack types but also misdirect attribution by leaving behind the "fingerprints" of the groups that the attack techniques were stolen from.

>UMBRAGE components cover keyloggers, password collection, webcam capture, data destruction, persistence, privilege escalation, stealth, anti-virus (PSP) avoidance and survey techniques.

>>60858816
>>60858838
A) Leaks worse than rape. WikiLeaks depends on (((anonymous sources))) like the failing NYT does. I won't believe anything until we get some concrete proof released to the public. Anybody could be framing the US government here. It could be some guy in Pakistan.

B) that was released after the election. Russia's interference started in 2015.

>>60858781
>Voting to give a a man who describes himself as a marxist unrestricted control over the Great Seal of the Realm
I get it's the centenary of the October revolution, but come the fuck on.

>>60858916
1. True, but this is an actual case of journalistic anonymity because the CIA can actually do things that may not be pleasant to these people. Not to mention they have put out verifiable information relating to their leaks 100% of the time ever since they first leaked the Iraq War war crimes footage, as opposed to the NYT, FOX, CNN , MSNBC and the like, who contradict past narratives with current ones
in order to push new narratives into the forefront. Remember when they said the election can't be hacked just a few weeks really before the general after Trump said some weird shit about mass illegal voting habits or something?

2. The Vault7 releases detail events from 2013-2016, about the same time as the so-called Russian interference
>What time period is covered?

>The years 2013 to 2016. The sort order of the pages within each level is determined by date (oldest first).

>WikiLeaks has obtained the CIA's creation/last modification date for each page but these do not yet appear for technical reasons. Usually the date can be discerned or approximated from the content and the page order. If it is critical to know the exact time/date contact WikiLeaks.

>>60859052
But the NYT has issued retractions and updated stories to correct themselves. They've published way more correct stories than false ones. Also about the Iraq War. https://youtu.be/LgQw8EhPJWw
So stop being a hypocrite and show me this concrete proof that's publicly available.

And I'm not disputing the date that the malware was created, I'm disputing the date that it was leaked and available for other intelligence agencies to use. They would need to work on it for a long time if they wanted to make it so that the false fingerprints it leaves aren't what the CIA would expect their own program to leave. The timelines just don't match up.

You still haven't explained why Trump doesn't seem to care. Actual people who are innocent who get interrogated during investigations ask a lot of questions about the real perpetrator. People who are guilty tend not to, because they know the real perpetrator won't be found. So either Trump is monumentally retarded, or he knows it was Russia and doesn't care.

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>If you've got nothing to hide, you've got nothing to worry about
>posts as Anonymous
>on https site

>>60859121
>You still haven't explained why Trump doesn't seem to care.
Because there is an investigation going on in Congress of sorts. There's no need bothering yourself about an ongoing investigation that has basically been going on for about 8 months now. Of course he doesn't care now. No one cared except really for Democratic partisans and the NeverTrumpers ironically.


>They would need to work on it for a long time if they wanted to make it so that the false fingerprints it leaves aren't what the CIA would expect their own program to leave.
Except we're dealing with a program that was intentionally made to perfectly spoof fingerprints from another country and it was essentially leaked so it was readily there to use in the first place. So, the CIA can only really suspect that it's their pet project. Not to mention that it wouldn't take a long period of time to copy that because it's the source code
is there.

>They've published way more correct stories than false ones.
Oh yeah. Like the ones where they basically admit that Vladimir Putin himself had little actual motive to attack Hillary Clinton. I remember that story too:
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/24/us/cash-flowed-to-clinton-foundation-as-russians-pressed-for-control-of-uranium-company.html?_r=0


This is about the Iraq War shit:
http://www.businessinsider.com/heres-the-full-version-of-the-cias-2002-intelligence-assessment-on-wmd-in-iraq-2015-3

https://www.scribd.com/doc/259216899/Iraq-October-2002-NIE-on-WMDs-unedacted-version
>So stop being a hypocrite
I'm not really being a hypocrite. When this is what Wikileaks has always done in that they leak first hand material from their target's, not make stories about them where they could easily lie like the NYT does. They even are aware that this isn't the best way to do things:

>>60859528
>Wikileaks has also decided to redact and anonymise some identifying information in "Year Zero" for in depth analysis. These redactions include ten of thousands of CIA targets and attack machines throughout Latin America, Europe and the United States. While we are aware of the imperfect results of any approach chosen, we remain committed to our publishing model and note that the quantity of published pages in "Vault 7" part one (“Year Zero”) already eclipses the total number of pages published over the first three years of the Edward Snowden NSA leaks.

It's the same reason they didn't name Chelsea Manning after "she" dropped the Baghdad airstrike video, because unsurprisingly naming sources when leaking gov't info is a bad idea. But then you have Snowden saying that the info looks authentic so there's that.

>>60857536
Ok so?
I consider both of these groups as subhumans.
Except mudslimes are sub-subhumans due to their toxic religion and culture. Even uneducated poles want to live in peace, unlike most mudslimes who - even passively - support sharia law.
Bravo you. Fag

>>60859528
...and those investigations have all pointed the finger at Russia. Lindsey Graham has proposed legislation to make the sanctions on Russia harder and more permanent. So why do you continue to deny it was Russia? Are you Russian?

I said it would take a long time to modify the code, not to copy it.

Hillary making a uranium deal doesn't mean Russia wouldn't prefer Trump. And yes, I do believe she belongs in jail anyways. I don't care what wrong she did, it doesn't distract from the things Russia did. She was incredibly anti Russia during the campaign. Trump supporters wouldn't shut up about how her no fly zone in Syria would start WW3 with Russia. She was more hawkish on Russia over Ukraine than Obama was. She was more pro EU and pro NATO than Trump is. Russia clearly preferred Trump, RT wouldn't have shilled so hard for him if they didn't.

>>60859619
I don't care. I believe my president, all leaks by anonymous sources are fake news created by the (((MSM))).

>>60859676
>...and those investigations have all pointed the finger at Russia.
Yet they had nothing to say when this the Vault7 information came out and they didn't even consider it at all despite it coming from the CIA as a first hand source. Really makes you think.


>Trump supporters wouldn't shut up about how her no fly zone in Syria would start WW3 with Russia.
Because like somewhat rational people, they don't want to get into another fucking war after Iraq and Afghanistan.

>Russia clearly preferred Trump, RT wouldn't have shilled so hard for him if they didn't.
There's nothing wrong with having an expressed opinion on a presidential campaign. Didn't Obama, just a week before Brexit, express his support for Remain in England itself? Having a political persuasion over a foreign election != influencing it.

Why would you need to modify the source code? The documentation is right there with it too.

>I believe my president, all leaks by anonymous sources are fake news created by the (((MSM))).
No. I don't listen to people who repeatedly lie to me about what's going on in the world and offer up clickbait as a resource instead of actual news. It's the same reason they were wrong during the election: the people in these mainstream corporations (RT,FOX,CNN, MSNBC,etc.) are only paid to give fluff stories to politicians. Why do you think the Huffington Post told Clinton staffers which stories she wanted published on her and the NYT?

https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/5988#efmADmAE6AF-AG1
These aren't news agencies, their propaganda artists. This has nothing to do with Trump really, but it has everything to do with the credibility of these so-called "journalists", who actively collude with a political campaign instead of doing honest reporting. If you are stupid enough to believe propaganda, good for you. I actually care about these issues to a point where I want someone with a good reputation to tell me what's actually going on.

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>>60859676
>I believe my president

>>60843542
what is your full name?

This woman is not only batshit crazy, but also ignorant as fuck. She called for a ban on encryption the other day and I just burst out laughing. She really has no idea how the internet works.

>>60843201
What are the chances of this actually happening in the UK? Also, if this does happen and the UK goes through with becoming like China, what country would be most likely to fall next?

>>60860021
*they're

>>60860021
So you genuinely believe that the CIA hacked the DNC, VR Systems, and other election officials, likely giving Trump the slight edge he needed to win, so that they could fabricate a story about Russia hacking the election, in order to get Trump impeached or at least paralyze his administration with scandals?

You still haven't offered proof this Vault 7 stuff was from the CIA besides anonymous sources. It could have been coded by some 400lb guy in New Jersey to make the US government look bad.

RT is a propaganda outlet funded by the Russian government. Obama expressed his personal opinion, but did not use government funds to fund media outlets in Britain. There's a clear difference. I brought up RT because you said Putin had no reason to favor Clinton. I pointed to the Russian governments own words to refute that.

RT is also not mainstream media.

You would need to modify the source code because in it's unmodified form, the CIA would be able to recognize the work of their own tools. They know what fingerprints they coded their own tools to leave.

I hope Trumpcare covers lung cancer, because you are asphyxiating in smoke but refusing to believe there is fire. Russia clearly saw Trump as a useful idiot at the very least. People like Paul Manafort and Micheal Flynn did not just coincidentally get so close to Trump. Sessions did not forget about his meeting with Kislyak while under oath, and then forget about another meeting with Kislyak that he left out of his correction to his statement under Trump oath. Did the CIA plant these people in the Trump campaign as well?

>>60858514
>Why aren't you on board with that?
I never said I did not want an investigation, my response was my opinion on Trump's state of mind in regards to opening an investigation concerning how he was elected. On the matter on why he does not just push the investigation itself to clear out his name: well, look at his cabinet. It seems that lots of them had contact with RUS one way or another, even if RUS had no direct way to influence the election outcome, he gets to go down in history as the "POTUS that RUS chose".

Sad pathetic Brits always voting away their rights.

>>60860173
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fCESxU1Ccs

It's the CIA. They've literally inserted propagada into US mainstream news media in the 1950s and used US citizens as the test subjects for MKULTRA.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Mockingbird
They're not exactly known for being truthful and doing good for the American people either really. Especially when they are revealed to have their own hacking sub-agency that can essentially spoof any nation in the world. In general, it's a good idea not to trust the CIA.

Because they have a reputation for releasing 100% true first hand sources over the past 10 years they've been operating.

RT is a MSM outlet just like CNN and FOX and MSNBC. It's funded by multinational corporations and gets kickbacks from politicians to cover them in a good light. Why do you think that these people are speaking well of John McCain and Lindsey Graham ,chickenhawk neocons that want to nuke Russia and Iran? Also, what makes you think that CNN, FOX and MSNBC aren't propaganda when they were pushing for the Iraq War not 10 years ago right before Shock and Awe, using very similar rhetoric to describe Saddam Hussein as they do to describe Putin now?

>
You would need to modify the source code because in it's unmodified form, the CIA would be able to recognize the work of their own tools. They know what fingerprints they coded their own tools to leave.
You realize they shared it to second-hand agencies and then it was leaked, meaning there was no modification necessary because the CIA indirectly gave the whole world's intel agencies, including ironically Russia and China. If Wikileaks has it, everyone has it.

>Meeting with an ambasador is a bad thing
How come there was no outrage when Bibi acted as an ambassador to the Trump campaign?

>>60860513
So you literally believe the establishment hated Trump so much that they hacked the DNC and various other organization to help Trump win, just so they could frame Russia to impeach Trump. I would assume you are a Russian bydlo, but your English is too good.

It's not just the CIA saying this. It's the FBI, the NSA, the DNI, etc etc. One organization can be corrupt, but all 17 saying the exact same thing? When saying that thing could get them fired by their boss (Trump)?

Either Trump needs to fess up and give the IC the intelligence that proves it wasn't Russia, or he needs to punish the hell out of Russia so that no other countries get any other ideas.

Those second hand agencies would need to modify the tools the CIA created if they didn't want the CIA to be able to recognize their work.

Meeting an ambassador is not a bad thing. Lying about it under oath is. Lying about it again when you submit the form to correct your statement under oath again is suspicious. You didn't address Micheal Flynn of Paul Manafort.

Why are you defending Russia so much anyways?

>>60860803
>So you literally believe the establishment hated Trump so much that they hacked the DNC and various other organization to help Trump win, just so they could frame Russia to impeach Trump.
No I'm saying the DNC tried to blame Russia continually for months now by saying the records that indicated they were corrupt had Russian malware on it during the DNC and that the Russians "hacked" John Podesta and the DNC (really he was an idiot that fell for a phishing scam and the DNC was so lacking secure it's password is obama08 and it sent passwords over compromised systems).

> It's the FBI, the NSA, the DNI, etc etc. One organization can be corrupt, but all 17 saying the exact same thing?
Yeah, these are all the same organizations that did say there were WMDs in Iraq and sold us that lie. So why would I chose to believe people that pass on deliberate lies like that?

Why? It's been months now and no real conclusive evidence that it was Russia, especially when you consider the Vault7 releases.

No they wouldn't. This is the documentation of the tools and the tools themselves. Very little modification in needed to use them, hence why it was a bad idea to share them.

Paul Manafort, during his time in the McCain camp of '08, was partnered with a Russian entity then. However, it's been 8 years and he severed ties with that Russian group since.
Flynn was fired for essentially lying to Mike Pence about being an advisor to a Turkish group and Russian group as well, and he's not under investigation for his connections to Russia, but actual corruption related to the previous charge of lying to Pence.

Because it's a distraction to the bigger problem of keeping politicians accountable. Russia has very little to gain in the US elections, just like we have very little to gain in elections in places like Kazakhstan. It's abundantly clear that the DNC concocted the story of Russian hackerd up in the first place

The terror attacks in the UK Westminster/Manchester/Bridge are all hoaxes.

They are psyops - psycological operations.

Run by the intelligence services and police to change the way you think.

Youtube search manchester hoax or london bridge hoax and they'll show you how they pull it off.

The media legally has to print propaganda about how muslims are bad and we need to invade middle east again and how you need to give all your data to the govt.

>>60860978
(cont.)
and the fact that they said that it was a phishing attack that did the job, something that pretty much no state hacking group uses since it tends to be spread over a wide group targets and only manages to get a few of them compared to the more direct way of actually doing a state-sponsored hack, which involves retrieving information through directly compromising their security, like China or Israel does. It's abundantly clear that this is just a partisan issue the Democrats have spun up in order to not address the fact that the DNC is corrupt. I don't like Russia or Putin really. I think Russia should vote someone in that isn't a complete corporate oligarch. But to say that Russia hacked the US elections, despite the so called technique to hack the election not even being something that Russia uses and the fact that the CIA has essentially muddied the water of the investigation by releasing tools that make it possible to spoof another country makes me doubt that assesment. It's fine to blame Russia for things it actually did and should be sanctioned for though like the invasion of the Ukraine, because there's unquestionable evidence Putin ordered that. Not so much hacking the election of another country

>>60860978
>No I'm saying the DNC tried to blame Russia
The DNC can both be corrupt and a victim of Russian cyber warfare. I want Putin, Podesta, Hillary, and Trump to rot in a jail cell for the rest of their lives. They're ALL corrupt. The DNC obviously didn't go to the FBI after the intrusion because they didn't want the FBI to find out about their corruption.

>Yeah, these are all the same organizations that did say there were WMDs in Iraq and sold us that lie.
They've also been right hundreds of times. And Iraq did have WMDs, we sold them to them. The specific claims coming out of the Bush administration were based on bad intelligence, not deliberate lies.

But if you can't trust anybody because they were caught lying once, why do you trust Donald Trump? He's lied about shit as mundane as his crowd sizes. He promised to release his tax returns. Do I need to continue?

>No they wouldn't. This is the documentation of the tools and the tools themselves.
Holy shit. Let me dumb this down for you to understand. The CIA made a blueprint for a gun. That gun kills people in a specific way. Somebody else got a hold of the blueprint for the CIA's special gun and used it against someone. The CIA would be able to tell if someone had used their gun because of way that the gun kills people. Like the bullet breaks up in a unique way when it hits the body. There's no evidence the Vault7 tools were used to frame Russia. The CIA would know, because they would be able to recognize their work.

>However, it's been 8 years and he severed ties with that Russian group since.
Except his contract lasted longer than that. The RNC also dropped using Obama letting Putin seize Crimea to smear the Democrats during the campaign. If that's not suspicious, you are blind.

cont

>>60852723
>what is steganography

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>>60843542
I really hope this is bait.

>>60861221
Does he knows we can still talk, like in real life, with other people?

>>60843542
Nice paste (You) got there.

>>60860978
>Flynn was fired for essentially lying to Mike Pence about being an advisor to a Turkish group and Russian group as well, and he's not under investigation for his connections to Russia
Wrong. He was allegedly fired for lying to Mike Pence (according to a man with a proven track record for lying), 18 days after Trump found out, and Flynn told the transition team he was under FBI investigation before he even got the job. Again, if that's not suspicious, you are blind.

>Because it's a distraction to the bigger problem of keeping politicians accountable.
So hold politicians like Putin accountable.

>Russia has very little to gain in the US elections
But that's bullshit. You yourself agreed that Hillary's no fly zone in Syria would lead to confrontation with Russia.

> just like we have very little to gain in elections in places like Kazakhstan
Are you actually comparing the most powerful country in the world to a central Asian gas station?

>It's abundantly clear that the DNC concocted the story of Russian hackerd up in the first place
The first people to blow the whistle were European intelligence agencies who were monitoring Russians.

>>60843201
will someone please shoot or kill these boomerfags already?

>>60861074
>and the fact that they said that it was a phishing attack that did the job, something that pretty much no state hacking group uses since it tends to be spread over a wide group targets and only manages to get a few of them compared to the more direct way of actually doing a state-sponsored hack, which involves retrieving information through directly compromising their security, like China or Israel does.
The FSB and GRU are smart. They know what a state sponsored cyber attack typically looks like. So they have all the reason in the world to try and make it not look like the attack came from a state.

>It's abundantly clear that this is just a partisan issue the Democrats have spun up in order to not address the fact that the DNC is corrupt.
Yet here I am, begging for Hillary and Podesta to go to jail, and I think this is all suspicious too.

>I don't like Russia or Putin really.
Yet you refuse to hold them accountable. If Trump has intelligence that points to someone else being responsible and trying to frame Russia, he would have brought it forward by now. He hasn't. Congressional REPUBLICANS agree it was Russia. It's not a partisan issue. It does get partisan when you bring up the issue of collusion, but that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about Russias actions.

>>60861200
>The DNC obviously didn't go to the FBI after the intrusion because they didn't want the FBI to find out about their corruption.
Or more likely they knew what they were saying is bullshit. If they committed a crime, the FBI can't do shit about it because they didn't have a warrant for sad crime at the moment.

>The specific claims coming out of the Bush administration were based on bad intelligence
That's my point. We essentially toplled the regime of Saddam Husseing and Gaddfi over bad intelligence, not to mention the Gulf of Tonkin which again was the result of bad intelligence. It really makes you think about how useful these agenecies are if they get most everything wrong in relation to foreign states.

It's fucking software they sent to second-hand agencies because they thought it was in safe hands, with documentation and the like. Tat's fucking how Wikileaks got it too, you idiot. This is first-hand info from the CIA. That's what Wikileaks publishes: first-hand information. and you can bet that if Wikileaks has it, every intel agency in the world has this information as well along with the source code left in the documentation. I don't know how stupid you must be to not know how Wikileaks works. It's the same reason they leaked Podesta's emails and the Baghdad air raid video, not commentary on them.

>Except his contract lasted longer than that.
Yeah nice evidence there.

>>60843542
If you don't care about your fucking privacy then FUCKING post your credentials right here right now. PROTIP YOU CANT


expoct us

>>60843542
also post your IP address so we can see what you download.

>>60861337
>If they committed a crime, the FBI can't do shit about it because they didn't have a warrant for sad crime at the moment.
That's not how law enforcement works, at all. If the DNC gave the FBI consent to go through their computer systems, and the FBI found evidence of a crime, they could turn them in to the justice department to be prosecuted.

>We essentially toplled the regime of Saddam Husseing
He was doing very bad things, the problem is that the US was enabling him in the years before so our moral high ground was null.

>Gaddfi
That was not bad intelligence, it was just a bad decision.

>Gulf of Tonkin
The US was in the wrong there.

>It really makes you think about how useful these agenecies are if they get most everything wrong in relation to foreign states.
No organization is perfect. These people have been right hundreds of times. You have a handful of times they were wrong.

>Yeah nice evidence there.
How would you react if a Democratic president hired an Iranian campaign manager who was paid millions of dollars to promote the interests of the Iranian government in the US and around the world, the rhetoric of the President was very pro-Iran on the campaign trail, but the administration dismissed it because that contract was 10 years ago?

>>60861244
>He was allegedly fired for lying to Mike Pence
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SkYStPeMjU

>So hold politicians like Putin accountable.
Fine.

>You yourself agreed that Hillary's no fly zone in Syria would lead to confrontation with Russia.
Yet she had business relations with the Russians as evidenced by the Uranium One deal. Why would you bite the hand that feeds?

>The first people to blow the whistle were European intelligence agencies who were monitoring Russians.
http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/donna-brazile-new-dnc-hack/2016/09/14/id/748246/

>The FSB and GRU are smart. They know what a state sponsored cyber attack typically looks like.
So does Mossad and Chinese cyberterrorism squads, which have stolen US military secrets and the private information of millions of Americans.
>Congressional REPUBLICANS agree it was Russia.

No shit. All of these Republicans in Congress are the sort that want to nuke Russia, including John McCain. Of course they want an excuse nuke Iran and Russia.

>>60851933
There's no such thing as private when your lightbulbs have a mic and an internet connection.

>>60861497
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SkYStPeMjU
Why should I trust some random neckbeard on youtube?

>Why would you bite the hand that feeds?
Because you have multiple hands that feed you. Trump has bitten the hand that feeds him multiple times. He does it so often American banks refused to lend to him... What makes you think Hillary is so different?

>http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/donna-brazile-new-dnc-hack/2016/09/14/id/748246/
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/apr/13/british-spies-first-to-spot-trump-team-links-russia
Bruh just face it, this isn't something the Democrats started. It's something they latched on to, but it wasn't even started by Americans. It was started by Europeans who face a very real and imminent security threat from Russia.

>No shit.
So why do you say this is a partisan issue in order to dismiss it?

>>60861434
>If the DNC gave the FBI consent to go through their computer systems, and the FBI found evidence of a crime, they could turn them in to the justice department to be prosecuted.

But that violates the 4th Amendment. You can only arrest someone for what is on the warrant you make as a law enforcer. You have to arrest someone for the crime that you have warrant for or else they can contest your warrant in court and they'll win because it wasn't covered under a warrant.

>He was doing very bad things
No shit. Doesn't give us a reason to destabilize a region.

>That was not bad intelligence,
Yet, he was well-liked in that region due to the numerous reforms he made that made Libya have an almost European country in terms of its economy. he probably did many dirty dealings, so yeah toppling his regime also had an obvious negative affect in the region.

>These people have been right hundreds of times.
Well it seems like they're desicion making skills over faulty evidence has led to some of the worst wars in the past 100 years. Not to mention that they're completely opaque so we don't know hat qualifies as evidence ot them. So until the day they become transparent, I'll choose to not listen to agencies that repeatedly make very bad decisions.

Paul Manafort is American thank you. He just worked with a Russian business group until about 2009. That hardly counts as a major effort of the Russians trying to influence the US elections in 2016.

If you're going to concoct conspiracy theories, don't try and pass it off as fact faggot.

>>60843542
le usual bait post

heres ur reply

>>60861630
>You can only arrest someone for what is on the warrant you make as a law enforcer.
No, the police don't need a warrant to arrest you for speeding or public indecency or anything. If you give law enforcement consent to look at your computers, and they find something illegal, they aren't required to put blinders on and pretend it didn't happen.

>Yet, he was well-liked in that region due to the numerous reforms he made that made Libya have an almost European country in terms of its economy.
Straight up propaganda. He spent the oil money funding communists in Peru and radical Islamists in the Philippines and supporting Mugabe in Zimbabwe. If Gadaffi wasn't overthrown, Libya would be worse off than Venezuela is today because of the drop in oil price. The problem is how we handled overthrowing Gadaffi.

>Paul Manafort is American thank you.
And American who took millions of dollars from foreign governments. If he had a (D) next to his name you'd be up in arms.

>He just worked with a Russian business group until about 2009.
Yet he still holds pro Putin views in 2017 and tried to influence the campaign to be more pro Russia.

>>60861721
>If he had a (D) next to his name you'd be up in arms.
Not really no. He's not the one running for President. He just had a consulting firm that managed to partner with Russians.

>The problem is how we handled overthrowing Gadaffi.
Honestly, we should have let the people of Libya do that naturally because everytime we get involved with an uprising, the group we prop up becomes a terrorist group. It's been a running theme since the Reagan years really.

Maybe because Russia isn't our enemy surprisingly enough. It really hasn't been since the end of the Cold War. It's only now that people are saying Russia is the worst thing to ever happen to human existence, meanwhile, while Russia is still a corrupt unmannaged political shithole, it's not nearly as bad as Syria where there's a literal terrorist group which has received US funds and weapons over the years, trying to destabilize another Middle Eastern country.

>>60861819
>Not really no.
If Hillary Clinton's campaign chairman had worked for the Chinese government, literally signing a contract to promote the interests of the Chinese government in the US and abroad, and Hillary's campaign espoused a lot of pro China rhetoric, you really wouldn't see that as suspicious just because it happened in the past?

>>60861845
>Hillary Clinton's campaign chairman had worked for the Chinese government,
You mean business men with ties to the government, because that's what happened in Manafort's case. He worked with Russian businessmen with ties to the Russian gov't.
>literally signing a contract to promote the interests of the Chinese government in the US and abroad
https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/03/much-ado-about-manafort/520743/
TL;DR: He was an image consultant. His job was to make investments in shitty cuntries look good. He also worked or the Phillipines under the Marcos regime and various Central African nations. He worked with Russian businessmen 10 years ago to make Russia seem like a good investment. Sue, he has no morals, but he isn't a Russian mole.

>Hillary's campaign espoused a lot of pro China rhetoric
So not demonizing Putin and saying things like he's Hitler along we must modernize NATO by making each of it's members pay a more reasonable share for their defense is pro-Russia

>>60861988
>He worked with Russian businessmen with ties to the Russian gov't.
That's how things work in an oligarchy. Putin rarely relies on official government agencies for things like this, he uses his oligarchs, because his oligarchs depend on the government teat.

>His job was to make investments in shitty cuntries look good.
America isn't a shitty country. Hiring someone like that makes me question Trump's judgement...

>but he isn't a Russian mole.
But the campaign was very pro Russia under his leadership.

>So not demonizing Putin
Putin deserves to be demonized based on his actions.

>we must modernize NATO by making each of it's members pay a more reasonable share for their defense is pro-Russia
Misrepresenting the NATO commitment to make our allies think they can't depend on us is beneficial to Russia. The 2% of GDP requirement is a deadline set for 2024. Nobody in NATO was leeching off of American tax dollars, because nobody in NATO pays money to any other member. The requirement is you pay your own military 2% of GDP, not to some centralized NATO fund.

>>60843205
>jacqui smith

>>60862054
>America isn't a shitty country.
I was talking about Russia shithead

>But the campaign was very pro Russia under his leadership.

Again, not demonizing Putin is somehow pro-Russia

>Putin deserves to be demonized based on his actions.
So do many other people in the world. Unfortunately, if you do that as a politician, you'll find you can't do diplomacy with them and what's the point in electing two people that can't do diplomacy because they insulted possible allies in some manner?

>Misrepresenting the NATO commitment to make our allies think they can't depend on us is beneficial to Russia.
How is it beneficial to anybody? You act like Russia will fucking invade just because Trump said some stupid bullshit on the campaign trail and somehow that's the worst thing he coud ever do. He didn't even say he wanted to dismantle NATO, just modernize it.

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>>60862151
>I was talking about Russia shithead
Don't call me a shithead, cunt.

>Again, not demonizing Putin is somehow pro-Russia
I would argue that demonizing Putin is pro Russia. The Russian people don't deserve such a corrupt, authoritarian leader that makes them suffer.

>So do many other people in the world.
And we do hate them.

>two people that can't do diplomacy because they insulted possible allies in some manner?
Putin has done way more than just insult us.

>How is it beneficial to anybody?
Because it divides us from our allies. Putin HATES that former communist countries ran away to the US with open arms because they were so abused by Russia for so long.

>You act like Russia will fucking invade
Putin will not invade the US, but he can invade our allies. He invaded Ukraine on a whim. There was that bullshit with Georgia (that I don't fully understand admittedly). Putin is more likely to abuse his neighbors if there isn't a strong United States protecting them.

>He didn't even say he wanted to dismantle NATO, just modernize it.
He tried to get Americans to turn against NATO. Obviously just coming out and saying "we need to leave NATO" won't go over well, you need to warm people up to it first.

>>60862216
>The Russian people don't deserve such a corrupt, authoritarian leader that makes them suffer.
Agreed.

>Putin has done way more than just insult us.
I'm talking about our politicians, especially those that ran for president. You can't insult one person publicly and expect them to give you any sort of favor. That's why you don't backtalk any possible allies: they might not accept your terms then.

>Because it divides us from our allies. Putin HATES that former communist countries ran away to the US with open arms because they were so abused by Russia for so long.

No it doesn't. No one is going to leave NATO because Trump said negative shit about their country because they still don't want to be invaded by Russia surprisingly.

>Putin will not invade the US, but he can invade our allies.
And we'll either attack them or try to get them to stop attacking our allies. Problem solved.

>He tried to get Americans to turn against NATO.

He said something similar to Japan and S.Korea too m80. Is it a grand plot for N. Korea to finally conquer the land of the rising sun or is it just a political tactic to get more support from his core supporters, who actually want that. My money's on the latter. He's essentially dropped a lot of that rhetoric since the election and hasn't really brought it up.

>>60862336
>because they still don't want to be invaded by Russia surprisingly.
Way to miss the point. The point is that those allies are less likely to be friendly to us, because they're not sure the US will defend them if they get invaded.

>And we'll either attack them or try to get them to stop attacking our allies. Problem solved.
That's very wishful thinking when the POTUS said he wouldn't if they weren't making their 2024 commitments today.

>He said something similar to Japan and S.Korea too m80.
Coincidentally, those are also core US allies that are next to Russia or Russian allies.

>or is it just a political tactic to get more support from his core supporters, who actually want that.
Please show me where all this anti NATO sentiment was before Trump.

>He's essentially dropped a lot of that rhetoric since the election and hasn't really brought it up.
So your best defense is "he isn't going to follow his campaign promises!". Really telling.

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>>60843205
>voting for left wing cucks

>>60861587
Because he's given a more realistic and acuurate output on what's going on in the world today.

Why would an essentially self-made billionaire need a failing economy to prop him up? China would make more sense if any of what you said was true really.

Can they at least bother to source any of this because these links could be literally anything the way they stated it.

Because it's not an issue in the first place. If it were, we would have more tangible evidence that actually corroborate it than an agency that essentially refuses to show it's findings to the American public rightfully really/

>>60862438
>Why would an essentially self-made billionaire
Bruh he inherited millions of dollars and couldn't prove he was actually a billionaire in court. I can't take you seriously when you're obviously drunk of Trump's cum.

>>60862434
He said, while giving money to Apple.

>>60862495
He inherited $50 million dollars after his father died in the 90s. He already made a good portion of his fortune by then. I think you're deliberately acting like an idiot:
>Believing conspiracy theories about Russia
>Saying that making a country actually move to modernize an out-of-date alliance is threatening them by possibly letting them get invaded

>>60862405
> The point is that those allies are less likely to be friendly to us, because they're not sure the US will defend them if they get invaded.

The thing is if we wanted that we would drop out of NATO.

>That's very wishful thinking when the POTUS said he wouldn't if they weren't making their 2024 commitments today.

Can't exactly make a payment if your getting invaded, which is also a great way to make a country indebted towards you. Look at post WWII France and Germany to see that in action.

>Please show me where all this anti NATO sentiment was before Trump.
>Reforming an alliance meant for the Soviet Union i to modernize it s somehow anti NATO

>So your best defense is "he isn't going to follow his campaign promises!".
No. I'm saying you weren't even listening to his campaign promises to begin with seeing that your'e saying things the MSM said Trump said instead of what he said himself.

>Coincidentally, those are also core US allies that are next to Russia or Russian allies.
Yeah, and did he not install new security units in S.Korea and have a showdown of sorts with North Korea for almost a few weeks? It really didn't seem like he was going to let Kim-Jong Un nuke S.Korea for some reason.

>>60862434

labour are very much centre/centre right, m8

>>60862542
>He inherited $50 million dollars after his father died in the 90s
Small loan of a million dollars :^)

The dude was so bad with his finances American banks refused to lend to him for a long time. He couldn't even turn a profit at casinos he was probably using for money laundering. https://www.fincen.gov/news/news-releases/fincen-fines-trump-taj-mahal-casino-resort-10-million-significant-and-long

>>Believing conspiracy theories about Russia
I'm not even stating that Trump himself colluded with Russia. I'm arguing that Russia did prefer Trump and interfered on his behalf. This is not a conspiracy theory, this is believed by Trump's own party and appointees in his government.

>>Saying that making a country actually move to modernize an out-of-date alliance
What's your blood Trump Semen level? Obama was trying to do that. The 2% figure Trump always quotes was put in place by the Obama administration in 2014 to be met by 2024. Our European allies have been increasing spending to reach that goal even before Trump started shitting on NATO. Why do you continually refuse to acknowledge you are wrong on this? You've been arguing it this entire exchange.

NATO is not out of date or unnecessary either. It has helped deter attacks against our allies and us. The only reason to be against NATO is if you want a member to be attacked by a non NATO member.

>>60862616
>The thing is if we wanted that we would drop out of NATO.
And the public would see that as incredibly suspicious. Public opinion needs to be turned against NATO for people to accept that.

>Can't exactly make a payment if your getting invaded, which is also a great way to make a country indebted towards you.
Just tell me straight up, do you even care about Russian aggression in eastern Europe?

>>Reforming an alliance meant for the Soviet Union i to modernize it s somehow anti NATO
Again, Trump is not modernizing it. He's MISREPRESENTING NATO to turn public opinion against it. I've been saying this for a while and you refuse to acknowledge it.

>I'm saying you weren't even listening to his campaign promises to begin with
I listened to the debates and plenty of his speeches. He is not a fan of NATO.

>It really didn't seem like he was going to let Kim-Jong Un nuke S.Korea for some reason.
North Korea is not super close with Russia, so that is no surprising. Japan is the main concern. They have a border dispute with Russia. I value our alliance with Japan over trying to please Russia.

>>60862641
>He couldn't even turn a profit at casinos he was probably using for money laundering. https://www.fincen.gov/news/news-releases/fincen-fines-trump-taj-mahal-casino-resort-10-million-significant-and-long


>I'm arguing that Russia did prefer Trump and interfered on his behalf. This is not a conspiracy theory, this is believed by Trump's own party and appointees in his government.

I have no problem with Russia favoring Trump over any other candidate. But to say that they interfered in the election for him is a conspiracy theory, since there has been very little actual evidence that corroborates that viewpoint and the first people to trot that line out was the DNC during the time of the first batch of DNC leaks. Just because warhawkish neocons believe that to be the truth doesn't mean it holds any credibility, because we're talking about senile people like John McCain here.

>NATO is not out of date or unnecessary either.
It's a deal that was made specifically with the Soviet Union in mind in 1949 and hasn't had major revisions since. That seems somewhat out-of-date to me.

>Public opinion needs to be turned against NATO for people to accept that.
Very few people have a strong opinion for or against NATO one way or the other in the US, because we have the military strength to oppose practically any force in the world.
>Just tell me straight up, do you even care about Russian aggression in eastern Europe?
I do, but I don't see how saying something about NATO, good or bad, is going to devolve into a Russian invasion. Probably because it isn't in the first place.
>He's MISREPRESENTING NATO to turn public opinion against it.
If he wanted to do that he would demonize it by saying it kills baby's or shit like that. Politicians have a tendency to demonize things they want to get rid of like how Democrats demonize guns and Republicans demonize abortion clinics. Saying we need to modernize it isn't exactly the type of language used to demonize anything at all.

>>60862832
>I listened to the debates and plenty of his speeches. He is not a fan of NATO.
Really , because if you did you would learly see he said make them "pay their fair share" or something of that caliber, which doesn't have the hallmarks of not being a fan of something. It probably has more to do with his want to make great deals or something like that.

>They have a border dispute with Russia. I value our alliance with Japan over trying to please Russia.
And they'll probably continue to have that border dispute. Who cares? That doesn't mean they'll invade Japan. In fact China is more of a worry in the region due to them grabbing Islands in the South China Sea and them revamping their military. You should be worried about China if you value our relationship with Japan.

>>60862832
>But to say that they interfered in the election for him is a conspiracy theory
Then why does his own government believe it? His own fucking appointee to the CIA, Mike Pompeo, believes it. You're only making your other points less believable when you refuse to accept this basic reality. Russia is a hostile foreign power. They hacked VR Systems to get data on our voter rolls. I've tried my hardest to leave the DNC out of this, because they're not relevant anymore and it just leads you to get side tracked. So please, stop going on about the DNC. I don't care about them. I'm talking about VR Systems being hacked.

>It's a deal that was made specifically with the Soviet Union in mind in 1949 and hasn't had major revisions since. That seems somewhat out-of-date to me.
Russia's behavior hasn't changed all that much from Soviet times. They still prop up hostile regimes like in Venezuela etc.

>Very few people have a strong opinion for or against NATO one way or the other in the US, because we have the military strength to oppose practically any force in the world.
Yet the vast majority of Americans have a higher opinion of our European allies than the do of Russia and want to defend them.

>Probably because it isn't in the first place.
How can you say that with Russia's track record? They aren't even ashamed of it.

>If he wanted to do that he would demonize it by saying it kills baby's or shit like that.
He knows his base, and that doesn't work on his base. They respond more to being told their tax dollars are going to leeches.

>Saying we need to modernize it isn't exactly the type of language used to demonize anything at all.
So then why does Trump repeatedly lie about the 2024 commitment?

>>60862872
>Really , because if you did you would learly see he said make them "pay their fair share" or something of that caliber, which doesn't have the hallmarks of not being a fan of something.
He believes they aren't paying their fair share when they are. He's either completely out of touch with reality and being told lies by someone with nefarious intentions, or doing this deliberately. He paints a false image of NATO that makes people resent our allies. Regardless of his intentions, he needs to fucking cut that shit out right now.

>It probably has more to do with his want to make great deals or something like that.
This fool couldn't even say what specifically he would like to change about NAFTA. He couldn't get Mexico to pay for the wall. Trumpcare does not fill most of his campaign promises about healthcare. He straight up does not make good deals.

>Who cares?
Patriotic Americans. Japan is our ally. Russia is our enemy. Get that through your thick skull.

>You should be worried about China if you value our relationship with Japan.
It's almost like this whole conversation is centered around Russia, not China. I do oppose China, but that's not relevant to anything that was said here.

I'm tired of arguing this Russia shit. Clearly nobody is going to accept anything if they already haven't.

>>60858860
smart conservative: hillary
lefitst retard: boynie

trump is a mentally deficient subhuman without a political ideology

>>60863059
>Hillary
>Smart
>Lost the fucking Rustbelt to a steak salesman who's an ardent asshole
>Smart

>>60862950
>Then why does his own government believe it?
Could it be that maybe bureaucrats won't have a job if there is no problem to be solved?

>Russia is a hostile foreign power.
Foreign power. Sort of. Hostile. Not really. Like Obama said in 2012, they're competitors. Russia really hasn't been our adversary since 1991, even earlier if you include glasnost.
>They hacked VR Systems to get data on our voter rolls.
Maybe, but it's also very possible someone that essentially used Russian-made malware to spoof Russia hacked VR Systems using the CIA's leaked tools did. Don't jump to conclusions until you consider all the evidence m80. The thing is with the Vault7 releases, essentially this whole Russia bullshit has to consider the very real possibility that someone somewhere used the CIA's software to hack a US firm.

>Russia's behavior hasn't changed all that much from Soviet times. They still prop up hostile regimes like in Venezuela etc.
>Venezuela
>hostile
They hate us, but they're hardly a threat being in the middle of a revolution and all due to socialism failing as always. And the fact that Russia is capitalistic is a major change fromthe Soviet days.

>Yet the vast majority of Americans have a higher opinion of our European allies than the do of Russia and want to defend them.
Most Americans don't care either way and really car more about what's in their pockets and how another war is a waste of resources.

>He knows his base, and that doesn't work on his base.
They are basically neocons minus the warmongering. They still are rampant moralists and want everything that doesn't conform to their views banned.

>>60863008
>This fool couldn't even say what specifically he would like to change about NAFTA
You mean the part where it takes labor out of America and puts it in a place like Mexico where jobs are cheaper or the part where it literally devistated our Rustbelt and working two jobs today can't even give you the same livelihood one job in the 80s could? Yeah, I prefer not to get rid of our workforce and ship it overseas thank you.
>He couldn't get Mexico to pay for the wall.
That's literally Congress' job. If you did think Mexico was going to pay for it directly, you are stupid. But it will cut the drug money that inevitably goes to cartels and Mexican politicians, so there's that.
>Trumpcare does not fill most of his campaign promises about healthcare.
You mean like repeal and replacing Obamacare like he basically said. Then again, the passage process of Trumpcare was so opaque that I didn't know what was in it, let alone anyone not in Congress, so who can say what really was in Trumpcare.

> Japan is our ally. Russia is our competitor.
FTFY, you fucking neoliberal/neoconservative faggot

>It's almost like this whole conversation is centered around Russia, not China.
But that's a country that Japan is worried about, not Russia. Why do you think they pay little heed to Russia at all?

>>60863302
>You mean the part where it takes labor out of America and puts it in a place like Mexico where jobs are cheaper or the part where it literally devistated our Rustbelt and working two jobs today can't even give you the same livelihood one job in the 80s could? Yeah, I prefer not to get rid of our workforce and ship it overseas thank you.
I never denied that NAFTA was bad. I pointed out that Trump could not list specific revisions he would make to make it better, because he said he would do that.

>That's literally Congress' job.
Not according to Trump on the campaign trail. He made a promise, he didn't say he would ask Congress to do something and say it could be possible, but don't get your hopes up.

>You mean like repeal and replacing Obamacare like he basically said.
He also said our premiums are going to go down, coverage is going to increase, and nobody is going to lose their health insurance. He also said the government was going to pay for it.

>FTFY, you fucking neoliberal/neoconservative faggot
Russia hates us. Look at the opinion polls of how Russians view the US. Look at their foreign policy. They hate us.

>But that's a country that Japan is worried about, not Russia.
So you're familiar with Japanese politics? Or are you just making assumptions?

Anyways, China being a bigger threat does not mean that Russia constitutes no threat at all and that we shouldn't be there to support Japan against them.

>>60863381
>I pointed out that Trump could not list specific revisions he would make to make it better, because he said he would do that.
He said repeatedly it's taking our jobs and stupid shit like that, but he has said why NAFTA is really a terrible deal

>Not according to Trump on the campaign trail.
The campaign trail isn't what actually happens. Congress is in control of our budget. They decide what we pay for or not.

>Russia hates us.
Really?
http://www.apnorc.org/projects/Pages/HTML%20Reports/public-opinion-in-russia-russians-attitudes-on-foreign-affairs-and-social-issues0401-6253.aspx
>Majorities of Russians see China as an ally and the United States and the European Union as adversaries; however, significant majorities say Russia should make at least some effort to improve its relationship with the United States and the European Union.
So basically competitors. Not enemies. They don't like us, but we're not enemies and really haven't been since the late 80s.

>Anyways, China being a bigger threat does not mean that Russia constitutes no threat at all
Russia's military actions have been toward the traditional Eastern side of Russia, with their failed escapade in the Ukraine and their help of Bashar Al-Assad in Syria. The Japanese literally face no Russian threat because they have nothing Russia wants. Japan is mineral-poor land, unlike Syria, and has no history with Russia outside the Russo-Japanese War, unlike the Ukraine. Not to mention we already are their proclaimed allies so basically the Russians are boxed in by another NATO-like agreement. And yes, I pay attention to Japanese politics, and the biggest threat to them is China, which unlike Russia has a growing economy and an actual intel agency devoted soley to cyberterrorism of sorts where they steal state secrets from other countries (like how they steal US military secrets and the personal information of thousands of Americans in literally the worst hack on US soil).

>>60863563
Not to mention places like Vietnam and the Philippines have also ran into problems with China's new island taking model, which has led to major political disputes. Don't forget that they are literally rebuilding their army and navy at the moment. I can see why the Japanese care about China more than Russia: because China's an actual threat to the sovereignty of Japan as compared to Russia.