Linux is finally user-friendly

KDE is nice an- *crashes*

>>60829634
Try it again and stop spreading false information

>>60829634
KEK get out of here, faggot. KDE is probably the most stable at the moment. I'm saying that as a GNOME user.

>>60829634
You joke, but they actually released a broken update that made computers unusable yesterday: https://www.reddit.com/r/kde/comments/6g2t5d/kde_ships_kde_applications_17042/din33rg/

>>60829665
The most stable way to get a bricked computer if you don't know how to fix it from the terminal. See >>60829670

>>60829670
I upgraded yesterday and nothing broke. Just because it happened to some redditors doesn't mean that it happened to all the users

>>60829665
>the most stable
stop bullshitting. KDE is a buggy mess. things randomly crash all the fucking time, like kwin or Dolphin

>>60829861
When was the last time you used it? Since 5.9 everything is completely stable

If you don't use KDE you're probably a brainlet.

They still haven't fixed the thing where sustained writes to a USB drive can stall your system.

Dolphin also stalls when you do sustained writes to a disk and then try to view that disk through dolphin. It would be ok if dolphin just showed a loading icon, but the entire program just freezes.

>>60829634
Usually KDE recovers from a crash within 10 seconds for me, so the couple crashes a week aren't a real problem for me.

>>60829647
actual KDE user here. This is not false information.

>>60829665
>KDE is probably the most stable at the moment.
I found XFCE to be the most stable.

>>60829647
Today I installed Kubuntu, it was a D I S A S T E R.
Not only it was slow as fuck, but it also crashed like 6 times in about 2 hours of use.

>>60830168

>Kubuntu

that's the problem. Use KDE neon for a just werks KDE.

>close Kwrite
>all taskbar KDE applications stop working one by one

switched to cinnamon can't complain

I don't know here
>>60829665
has been living, but
>>60829634
is right, KDE is buggy shit. tried it, never again. Currently happily running Gnome on Gentoo.

How do I completely disable a discrete GPU a d use the Intel integrated graphics ?
Tried many things but none worked /were stable
Dell XPS 9560
i7 7700hq
GTX 1050
>elementary OS

>>60830457
nouveau.modest=0
in kernel boot params

>>60830480
I'll try thanks

>>60830514
correction

nouveau.modeset=0

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>>60829615
>KDE
I wouldn't argue it was good for normies even before this, not that I use KDE myself

>>60830542
Added nvidia and nouveau.modeset=0 to grub.
I don't think it worked that well.
It seems I have 6-8W discharging than before but I need to check.
Thanks anyway m8.

>>60830033
> I found XFCE to be the most stable.
My boy

>>60830542
>>60830790
NVM it seems to work well but still consumes way more that Intel mode only on PRIME (which caused me freezes)
It's quite blizzard.
The card doesn't appear anymore on lspci 3D but the fans still start to spin, and the power consummation is still quite high.
But thanks a lot I now know where to search.

What distro do you guys recommend to use KDE for? Please not Arch or Gentoo.

I use KDE NEON and i have no problems. I got some on other distros with kde but neon just werks

>sudo apt-get install thunar
>sudo thunar

Done and bypassed

>>60830889
nixos

>>60829634
Damn bro, how did you manage to invent a time machine to travel back to 2014?

>>60829615
>Linux is finally user-friendly
>terminal stuff
ok

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>>60830889
>Please not Arch or Gentoo.
What's your problem?

>>60830889
Antergos and pick kde at install

>>60830889
KDE Neon

>>60830033
>xf-screentear-c being best
they cant even get their compositor up to date

>>60830457
Nvidia bumblebee

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>>60831645
Just use the Nvidia compositor, works perfectly

>>60829897
>Since 5.9 everything is completely stable
>needed to get to .9 to become stable
>soon 6.0 plasma2
>everything broken again
my sides

>>60829615
>can't run dolphin as root
but why

>>60830033
>Usually KDE recovers from a crash within 10 seconds for me, so the couple crashes a week aren't a real problem for me.
are you a recovering windows addict?
how is crashing at all acceptable to you?

>>60834161
He's tolerant to degeneracy and shitskins.

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>>60830033
>Usually KDE recovers from a crash within 10 seconds for me, so the couple crashes a week aren't a real problem for me.

>>60830889
Antergos

>>60829647
nothing false about it KDE still has a bunch of problems especially with panels

>>60829665
KDE stable hahahahahahahahahaha

>>60830889
anything thats not arch or gentoo and not KDE

>>60829615
>KrashDE

>>60833571
so you dont fuck your system because anyone using kde must be stupid or 5

>>60834676
For what purpose would you need to run Dolphin as root?

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>>60834682
For what purpose would you need to run as root?

>>60834682
to delete something that you need root perms and dont fell like doing sudo rm or su and then rm

>>60834686
Administrative tasks through the terminal like a civilized person.

>>60834688
Sounds absolutely retarded, doing a sudo rm would actually be faster.

>>60834702
this

>>60834702
Give me one good reason to install KDE

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>>60829615
>Even if it was user friendly I would not use it because all of those pedophiles on linux.

You can not argue this.

>>60834682
while i agress it's *usually* a bad idea to run a graphical file manager as root, that's beside the point
root shouldn't be stopped from doing anything should one wish to do so
this is such a ... proprietary thing to do

>>60829665
KDE is unstable bloat shit piece of cunt fuck shit...
I'm stating this as KDE user.

>>60834723
It's the most advanced DE on Linux, supports HiDPI out of the box, has animations that scale with your refresh rate, easy to get rid of screen tearing by enabling Vsync and is the most customizable without having to edit config files. And many of the K app are actually really good at what they do and integrate well with each other so what you end up getting is a modern Windows desktop metaphor combined with a tight macOS sense of integration between applications and desktop.

>>60834743
Well, it's Linux, use file manager that allows you to run as root if you want to do so.

>>60834732
Pedos breathe oxygen.
Checkmate

>>60834763
The answer to all of that is who cares and haahahahahahahhahah

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>>60834926
Not an argument

>>60834948
Its just that the argument is full of retarded statements and bullshit

what a fucking farce

>>60829665
well as a GNOME user you prolly think GNOME is stable as well so I'm just gonna ignore your opinion if that's ok

literally the only 100% stable DE is xfce and that is only if you don't touch anything. KDE is definitely among the UNstable ones.

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>>60834958
それは議論ではない。

>>60834968
but it is

>>60830168
Xubu masterrace
>inb4 muh systemd

>>60829615
I used KDE for a while, and I did have issues sometimes with stability.
For example, if I'm running a Windows VM in VirtualBox, in KDE, sometimes the window would just instantly vanish because it crashed. So I'd have to reopen and boot up the VM again.

So I decided to switch to gnome + wayland.
In many ways, gnome seems more stable. But it's still not without its issues.

gnome is a lot less customisable, and it has some strange design choices I'd like to change but can't.
And there are things that don't work in Wayland, or are finicky.

For example, taking screenshots. A lot of screenshot programs don't work on Wayland. I liked using shutter.

Also, the clipboard acts weird sometimes. I often need to work on Microsoft Word/Excel in the Windows VM.
If I try to copy and paste charts from Excel to Word, sometimes it doesn't copy the chart as a chart, but as an image.
And sometimes copying flat out doesn't work, and sometimes it does.
Sometimes I try to copy something, and I go to paste it, and I find that it's pasted the thing that I'd already copied previously, and not the thing I'm trying to copy now.

it always has been

>>60829647
KDE is not much better than any of the other DEs in terms of bugs and crashing. basically all linux DEs will fuck up at some point, so just reboot and 10s later you're back.

Not sure why everyone parades their favourite DE so much. You should be in the terminal most of the time, and there is little difference in terminal operation across DEs

>>60834763
You're looking at KDE like it's bringing Windows functionality and MacOS usability and UX to Linux. I take issue with that since KDE doesn't have the manpower to really make a convincing argument in that way. How can you tell someone that you're creating a unified desktop experience when there isn't enough developer time to fix the numerous visual bugs that appear without warning? It's like the Pontiac Fiero trying to be like a Lambo, it's nice but no one thinks it's a Lambo.

Anyways, in my opinion a simple, rugged, fast interface is the way to experience Linux. No notifications, no laggy visuals in the interface, runs fast as fuck and reboots in 10s. That's the Linux dream. Fast and light. No nonsense.

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>running anything under root
>running anything involving x11 under root
>using the root shell for extended periods of time
They were right, you people really are fucking retarded.

is there any window manager that can remember window position like kwin?

I can't live without that but I hate KDE and its buggy panel

>>60830033
>Usually KDE recovers from a crash within 10 seconds for me, so the couple crashes a week aren't a real problem for me.
Explorer.exe has so far crashed only a handful of times in a year

>>60830457
Why would you do that? Can't you install the Nvidia drivers? I'm actually curious because I'm thinking of getting an xps 15 too but if the 1050 doesn't work with Linux might as well just get the xps 13 one instead of the 15.

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>>60829615
>make Linux a system ready for the general public.
Can KDE run windows games on Loonix?

>>60835755
can hotdog run potato on carrot?

>>60834743
>shouldn't be stopped from doing anything should one wish to do so
This. At worst it should warn you in case you forgot to su back and ran it as root by accident.

>>60830868
Your fault for using nVidia.

>>60830889
suse

Always loved KDE, if only because it doesn't have a stupid ass GNU/GNOME attitude

>>60833550
>software versions are decimal

>>60829615
"Finally"
That shit was happening even before 2014

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>>60836241

>>60829615
Linux MAY BE user friendly, but at WHAT PRICE?

Is there ANY distro that ships a working desktop, WITH filemanager, browser, mediaplayer, wifi-support, hotpluggable drives, printer and scanner support - BUT DOES NOT include systemd, dbus, polkit, pulseaudio, gsettings, gconf, dconf, networkmanager, keyring? Is there any?

I could compile gentoo with the right flags, but I am just to fucking lazy. I love my binary distros.

Even slim and wicd usually need dbus! I mean WTF.

I get the best results from debian LXDE and sysvinit installed and everything that sucks removed via dpkg -r --force-depends SHIT.

But even then, there are so many fucking errors because everything just depends on everything, I HATE THAT SHIT. It does not have to depend on everything. Even nemo runs fine if you don't try to connect network servers - because they fucking need gvfs which depends on fucking dbus which needs systemd.

So what is the price of a user friendly Linux?

I'll tell ya - it's Windnux+PoetterSoft

>>60829615
But what if I want to run it as root

What the fuck

>>60836852
>depends on fucking dbus which needs systemd
dbus has nothing to do with systemd.

>>60836881
Not dbus itself, but systemds dbus library.

Nevertheless: On a typical one user pc, I cannot think of any software that would ALWAYS REQUIRE a messagebus in the form of dbus. Optional? Fine.

>>60836922
Dbus is mostly a convinience thing.
Using it as hard dependency makes things easier on the applications that use it, since they don't have to abstract over the IPC they use.

And honestly, I think most things not asuming single user systems, but being able to do multiuser systems by default is a good thing.
It can be a bit more difficult to set up, but I for example really like how easy it is to decouple music player, torrent application and actual user from each other by means of users.

>>60836922
>but systemds dbus library
You mean sd-bus? I don't think it's use is that common outside of systemd.
You may be thinking of logind, which is systemd service that is interacted with over dbus.

>>60830457
Create a file
/etc/modprobe.d/blacklist-video.conf
Add these two lines:

blacklist nouveau
blacklist nvidia

Rebuild your initramfs:
On Arch you need to use the mkinitcpio thing.
On Gentoo you need to use genkernel or whatever you use.
On fedora you need to use dracut
Don't know about others.

Finally, reboot.

This is a permanent change until you delete the file and rebuild initramfs, if you want to do it temporarily, then just add this to your boot parameters:
modprobe.blacklist=nouveau,nvidia

>>60835775
>ble
>>60835755
yes

>>60836953
You know - that all right. Really. If you need it, you should and could get it.

But why the fucking hard dependencies? On each normal DE there is a whole bunch of stuff that is only there for one fucking application. For example gvfs. You need it (mostly) for your filemanager. Why does your filemanager hard depend on it. And why does gvfs hard depend on dbus. And why does my filemanager hard depend on gconf. Why is not storing its settings in a fucking textfile under $HOME/.config/$FILEMANAGER.$EXT?

And do you know what the best fucking joke is:
Pulseaudio and Poetters "it is network transparent" when at the same time the same community wants to abolish X in favour of something "yeah, no network transparency - X does not have that, too, you know... - but you can RDP".

WTF?

>>60836955
Granted, logind may actually be the main reason for the dependencies as found in apt. But that is not at all better in my opinion.

>>60837061
the way X is used nowadays isn't network transparent
and old native X network transparency is chatty as all fuck, and VNC/Xpra is literally faster

>>60830889
Opensuse

>>60837079
VNC is not literally faster. Are you fucking stupid?
X is not used right - you are correct.
Time for X12 so that it can be network transparent again. And BTW: most software that is written in a way that utilizes X wrong, simply does not make any sense over the network: browsers, mediaplayers, games...

>>60837061
>But why the fucking hard dependencies?
Because IPC(well, any IO) is hard and annoying.
Abstracting over it to support multiple IPC systems is something nobody wants to do.

>And why does my filemanager hard depend on gconf
Because it's intended to be used with gnome, where gconf is common.
But I agree, this is really annoying. This could be fixed by whatever library binds into gconf to be able to do a traditional config file in $XDG_CONFIG_HOME.

pulse is a fucking joke.
The network part of pulse is even weirder than normal pulse, believe me, I run it.


>>60837072
What does apt use logind for?

>>60837061
God damn, dbus is just some IPC protocol. It's not really anything to get worked up about.
If you actually look into what dbus does, you'll realise that it's actually a good thing. It allows various applications written by different people to interoperate MUCH more easily.
It allows for much more coherent interface. For example, try write a program which will make some arbitrary music player that a user has installed change track.

>>60830168
i bet you ware using firefox, just disable acceleration

>>60837104
X11 is fucking crap. Also, you clearly don't know anything about Wayland and how it actually works.
There is absolutely nothing stopping someone from writing a wayland compositor that is fully network transparent with a remote compositor.

>>60837104
>X is not used right - you are correct.
The thing that makes it non network transparent isn't that it's used "wrong"

It's the extensions X got that make it actually competitive in performance.
Such as clients using OGL and passing pictures to X instead of using a weird protocol to tell X to draw lines and text.

And for anything that uses DRI vnc will be faster, since it can compress the images and reduce RTTs for clients.

>>60837119
"Dependencies in apt" is my term for the dependencies that get installed whenever you install a package, but if you purge the package manually and the software still works, even if some errors are thrown, then it is not really a dependency. It's optional, it may be bloat.

>>60837137
"passing pictures" -> wrong usage. We are telling millions of devices everyday to draw lines in a certain way (web browsers) and then style them. But we cannot do that on the desktop. That's bullshit.

>>60837120
>arbitrary music player
Is there a default dbus interface for music players?
And if there is, in which way does it work better over dbus than some standard interface over a pipe $XDG_RUNTIME_DIR/music_player would work?

>>60837167
https://specifications.freedesktop.org/mpris-spec/latest/

>>60837133
>There is absolutely nothing stopping someone from writing a wayland compositor that is fully network transparent with a remote compositor
Outside of GL not being network transparent.

>>60837140
That dependency isn't in apt, but in the repos.
But this is mostly a wording thing.
And needs some context.

>>60837104
>VNC is not literally faster. Are you fucking stupid?
have you tried native X forwarding on a high latency link before?, sending a jpeg 'frame' is a fuckload faster than communicating every little detail one at a time

i'm not sure there's a clear and obvious best solution to any of this
but i think true/"classic" gui network transparency is a thing of the past

reminds me of a wayland speech that mentioned how they thought about making a way for clients to request for fonts to be rendered, and it ended up just being cheaper overall to give the client the whole font and let them render it themselves
it's not like haven't put any thought into these things

>>60837120
And for that shit I do need a fucking messagebus? Why does every program need dbus? Does every program need to communicate with my mediaplayer. I call bullshit.

There could have been a simple var in env and a standard to recieve messages in the player. Simple, easy. Not hard, bloated and nontransparent.

>>60837183
There is nothing stopping you from compressing it and sending it over. You can even optimise it and only send changes over ("damage"), so you're not constantly pushing a 1080p@60Hz stream over the network.

>>60837167
This guy gets it - thank you!

>>60837163
>We are telling millions of devices everyday to draw lines in a certain way (web browsers) and then style them.
try doing all those calls over a WAN link and let me know how well it goes

>>60837200
>There is nothing stopping you from compressing it and sending it over.
There's nothing stopping you from doing VNC all over again, which isn't what network transparency means.

>>60837179
>https://specifications.freedesktop.org/mpris-spec/latest/
this is cute. Now how about you answer the second part of the question?
In which way is this better over dbus than some pipes in $XDG_RUNTIME_DIR?

>>60837214
We are sending some static files that then describe how to render things, which are then rendered locally when you scroll.

What you are suggesting is akin to sending only parts of the HTML that are currently required and resending it on every scroll frame.

>>60837200
Are you actually listening to yourself?

>>60837195
On high latency links it does not make sense to run software on a server with the gui rendered anywhere but the server. If the latency is too high, you need a monitor on whatever is the server. OR you simply create a network gui via html or something else.

>>60837238
What the hell do you even want? Wayland isn't some archaic immediate-mode draw command shit.
Clients draw into framebuffers and those are passed around. You could send a single client's framebuffer over a network, and then the remote compositor can display it like a normal client.

>>60837261
>In which way is this better over dbus than some pipes in $XDG_RUNTIME_DIR?
How would that work if there are multiple processes that want to listen on that interface?

>>60837263
>you need a monitor on whatever is the server
Which is totally possible in any situation network transparent GUI may be used.

> OR you simply create a network gui via html or something else.
Which is totally a thing I want to do with any application I want to run remote

>>60837276
How is having many mediaplayers running but controlling them over your fucking panel an excuse for dbus?

>>60837276
>How would that work if there are multiple processes that want to listen on that interface?
Do you have any idea how DBus works?

If you have multiple players (so multiple servers) they will all listen on their own interface.
Just look into that MPRIS you linked for a second. They basically do

 $XDG_RUNTIME_DIR/mpris/<app_name> 

>>60837286
But Jesus - don't run remote software with local guis if the network latency is too slow. Are you running something via satellite downlink? In a local network - the place where it makes the most sense - RDP will be slower. On a slow WAN connection, it will be even slower.

>>60837293
Media players was just an example. There are lots of reasons for why a client would want to communicate with (possibly several) other clients.

>>60837263
>you simply create a network gui via html or something else.
nobody's going to do something like that, because whatever compromises you'll need to do to make this sort of gui work is most likely going to hurt local performance and flexibility, and remote guis are far less important than local guis

>>60837276
>Clients draw into framebuffers and those are passed around. You could send a single client's framebuffer over a network, and then the remote compositor can display it like a normal client.
So you can do VNC.
Do you even understand what VNC is?
Well, it has a lightly better integration, but that's mostly because wayland gives less information to clients than X, so integration clients that are inferiour is easier

Also you should listen to the talk about network transparency from the wayland guys.

>>60837328
>>60837263
-- oh, and special-purpose remote guis where it is important, are already done in other ways, most notably with web uis, which is a perfectly valid alternative/solution

>>60837326
>Are you running something via satellite downlink?
802.11N is to slow IMO.
I tried it, it's shitty.

> On a slow WAN connection, it will be even slower.
even if it's just latency, VNC will be faster than RDP.
If your throughput is also shitty, it will be much faster.
Simply because it reduces calls that have to go over the high latency line, and can compress the pictures that have to traverse it aswell.

>>60836852
Literally just install Gentoo.

does KDE have systemd depedencies?

>>60837335
>Do you even understand what VNC is?
Yes, it's basically just pushing frame buffers over the network, but it's the entire screen.
>but that's mostly because wayland gives less information to clients than X, so integration clients that are inferiour is easier
You're spinning that like less information is a bad thing. No, X gives clients WAY too much information and power. Security on X11 is non-existent.

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>>60836852

>>60837394
>You're spinning that like less information is a bad thing. No, X gives clients WAY too much information and power. Security on X11 is non-existent.
That's what you read into it.
More or less information being better or worse, is subject to the application.
For most things it's better, especially security.
The only downside is that it will force some applications into the compositor, so things get a bit less standardized.

> Yes, it's basically just pushing frame buffers over the network, but it's the entire screen.
Becaus that's what X clients require (at least some).
With wayland we get better integration, but pushing compressed frames over the network still isn't a network transparent protocol.
libwayland currently (and afaik there's no plan to change that) relies on shared memory areas for IPC, so unless you get that over the network, you are closer to VNC than network transparency on the protocol level.

And if you had seen/listened to the talk about network transparency from the wayland guys, you'd know that.

>>60837388
Too lazy. As I said: I like binary.

>>60837397
Maybe. The first iso seemed - unprofessional.

Why can't you run Dolphin from root? I don't see why I have to use the terminal just to edit or delete certain files.

>>60837505
Probably because it's way too easy to fuck things up catastrophically as root. File managers make it even easier, especially for inexperienced users who have no idea what they're doing.
I don't agree with their decision of refusing to open as root, but I understand why they did it.

>>60837470
>unprofessional.
Love these important sounding terms with no weight attached to them, keep em going buddy!

>>60829634
Fucking lol. Every single time I've tried KDE it eventually devolved to this.

>>60834958
And your evidence to the contrary is - hahahahahahahahhah. Great. You sure showed him now.

>>60830889
openSuse. It's there default DE and they've done a lot of optimization

>>60837643
Well, I will eventually use devuan. It's just that the initial setup desktop felt like 1996. I think they are doing a good job, a necessary job. My I wil just switch repos from debian to devuan once my pulseaudio/dbus/*kit/systemd-less LXDE debian is ready.

>>60833571
>>60837505
Maybe because a dialog box will appear and ask for your password if a file needs root access, kinda like gksudo? At least that would be the proper way. Would be retarded if that's not the case.

>>60837643
Professional systems use proper enterprise init implementations, like systemd.
Only toys like devuan do init with a bunch of ducktaped shell scripts.

>>60829815
Never reddit.
It breaks computer.

>>60830168
KDE is quite nice.
Kubuntu has been shit from day one.