DIY builders struggle to meet price with fewer features

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>>60825543
>A $120 retail Windows 10 license Tax isn't included with the PC Gamer piece, nor is any consideration for the "cost" of the user's labor to assemble the computer.

>>60825543
Fuck that noise. I can do better for $5000, the literal price for this turd.

>>60825676
prove it, spec out the build

>AMD is raping Jewtel
>Apple makes a computer bang for the buck (with possible thermal issues thanks to Intel Housefire Xeons
>Trump is mining salt as crazy
Best timeline ever.

>>60825687
he can't

>>60825786
More like I'm not going to waste my time. Repeat after me:
FIVE THOUSAND DOLLARS

>>60825811
>he can't

>>60825782
This isn't completly accurate, though. Apple in the past did some other computers that where bang for the buck in their times, but Apple went lazy and then became overpriced machines relatively quickly (I'm watching you, Mac Pro 6,1)

>>60825543
fuck off retard

>>60825543
>a 1300W power supply listed as 92 percent taxed
that's not what that means, the max consumption as specced is probably well under 500W.
E5-2620v4 is 85W, the M5000 is 150W.

>>60825811
>>60825687
>guys i totally can do a skateboard flip i just don't feel like it right now
>also my dad works for nintendo

>>60825687
Not him, but if I can get a list of the crapple specs, I'll give it a shot

>>60826002
> For $4999, users get an undeclared 8-core Xeon processor, four Thunderbolt 3 ports, four USB 3 ports, a single 10-Gig Ethernet port, 1TB of SSD storage, 32Gb of 2666 MHz ECC RAM, and as-yet unreleased Vega graphics

>>60825543
bullshit
https://pcpartpicker.com/list/dLcWTH
under $3500 for equal or better parts, only thing missing is the thunderbolt expandability, since intel sucks at moving their own tech on desktops.

>>60826090
No OS, no 10GbE, monitor is discontinued

>>60826198
apple's OS is "free"
there isn't any consumer boards with 10GbE until x299 launches
the LG 5k monitor still doesn't take it over-budget.

>>60826198
OS is always free

>>60825543
Some idiot on reddit make stupid comparation.

I also pulled up the exact same configuration and got it $400 cheaper.

There are some things to note here.

You are getting a dual CPU motherboard with 16 available DIMM slots.
You are getting a workstation graphics card valued around $1800 to $2000.
You are getting a much better monitor than the Apple monitor.
You are getting 3 Years ON-SITE support.
1300W power supply listed as 92 percent

Basically they're incomparable.

>>60826246
>apple's OS is "free"
AKA baked in to the cost
> there isn't any consumer boards with 10GbE until x299 launches
That may be, but you're still not matching specs, so thunderbolt isn't the only thing missing (and it's still missing in a big way if you only have one port)
>>60826278
If you hit the pcpartpicker link from pcgamer it shows the total as $3349.52, cheaper than their article says ($4686.71):
https://pcpartpicker.com/list/LkDgcc

>>60826278
>You are getting a workstation graphics card
iMac pro is supposed to have a workstation card as well, although nobody knows until it ships.
>You are getting a much better monitor than the Apple monitor.
$5400 for the lenovo doesn't include any monitor. Post a screenshot of your config that's cheaper?

where can i find the specs for the imac pro ?

>>60826341
Mac graphics are rebrand gaming Radeon.
Nvidia workstation graphics had support for dozens design,3D and Engineers software.

Mac lack support for software, Apple trick is compare gaming card price to workstation graphics, making thousand of dollar on side apple.

X299 begin platform Apple are based iMac pro.

>>60826464
what the fuck am i reading

>>60826341
https://pcpartpicker.com/list/h8jfgL
I upped everything to the most expensive equivalent options and added the 10GbE card, still under $5000,

This article is full of shit, DIY people are not having problems outspeccing the imac pro at that price, integraters might because they don't have the strings to pull like apple does, and rightfully don't want to cut their profit margins.

>>60826002
>I don't know the specs but I'm sure that I'm right because muh Windows muh gaymes muh /r/pcmastuurrrrayce

>LE OVERPRICED HARDWARE MAYMAY XD I CAN BILLED MY OWN UGLY LOUD BLOATED SPACE HEATER FOR CHEAPER
/v/ BTFO

>>60826341
it's getting radeon vega, did you wach the presentation? Pricing isn't official yet, but there's no way it'll exceed GTX titan pricing.

>>60826086
Is that really all you get? Jesus fuck, you can do that for 3 grand tops on Windows.

>>60826551
>https://pcpartpicker.com/list/h8jfgL
You've still got fewer features, your one and only thunderbolt3 port will be used up driving the 5k monitor (and that at a lower res), and the NIC doesn't support Nbase-T (2.5 and 5Gbps).
So while you may be close (and probably good enough for the usage of the purchaser), you're still not meeting or beating the iMac pro in every spec.

> This article is full of shit, DIY people are not having problems outspeccing the imac pro at that price, integraters might because they don't have the strings to pull like apple does, and rightfully don't want to cut their profit margins.
Totally agree, article is crap, but the kinds of people that would buy the iMac pro aren't going to be building it themselves. The comparison with the Lenovo workstation is still valid IMO.

>>60826667
>Windows
you're obviously downgrading.

>>60826682
You can install OSuX on it if you like, won't change the price.

>>60826667
Not with the superior aplel display

>>60826700
Display doesn't cost 2 grand alone.

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>>60826086
>Builders can't spec out a comparable build using undeclared and unreleased parts.
>APPLEL IS WINRAR!!!!!!!!

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>>60825543
>8bit trash

>>60826662
> no way it'll exceed GTX titan pricing
How much is the titan? Most of the lists in this thread are using the GTX980Ti, seems like it'd be more than that at least.

>>60826551
The graphics card that will come with the mac is going to be more like $2000

>>60825782
>bang for the buck
LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

Neither of those shitposting machines are bang for buck tier
they are "im a huge faggot raep my face" tier

>imac starting at 5k
>assuming it will have all the parts listed as "up to"

I don't think it's fair to part together a computer and try to say it's less money.

You need to find one that comes put together and warrantied to work together as a unit and is shipped that way. That would be the competition

not a bunch of cobbled together parts

>>60826791
You're fucking retarded.

why is it a requirement to pick the same components?

for 5k you can build a superior machine with like three 4k displays and a fuckton of I/O

>>60826681
actually the thunderbolt coudln't be used for the display, since it's not linked to the graphics adapter.

the 1080Ti and the titan Xp support DP1.4 which can drive 5k 60Hz.

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>>60825543
>http://appleinsider

>>60825543

Hold on a second, how do they already know the performance necessary to beat the iMac? Especially that Vega?
Also
>downgrades the power supply to 1000W which might be too low for reliability

What?

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>>60826820
All the builds are using this, which takes DP input from the GPU.
You still can't drive the LG ultrafine 5k at full resolution since that requires apple special sauce to run dual DP over TB3.
If you don't have TB3 you can't drive the LG ultrafine 5k at any resolution since it doesn't have DP in.

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>>60826800
>I don't think it's fair to part together a computer and try to say it's less money.
>You need to find one that comes put together and warrantied to work together as a unit and is shipped that way. That would be the competition
>not a bunch of cobbled together parts

he's right you know

5k is retarded and useless at 27".

>>60826246
ASRock has X370 consumer boards with 10G.

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>>60826723
MACTODDLERS BTFO

>>60826851
>downgrades the power supply to 1000W which might be too low for reliability
see >>60825938
they think the workstation is using 92% of 1300W, which is pants on head retarded.

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>>60826723
DELET

>>60826086
I rounded it up.
I could not effectively match the specifications, so you get more, but pay more.
https://pcpartpicker.com/list/vzpy2R

>os
Linux bitch

>>60826884

That's exactly my point. That must draw 600-650w at the absolute most.
But still the kicker is we don't know what kind of parts the iMac has, for all we know it could be a chink type psu. Also since all they did with the MBP was grab a consumer gpu and call it a "pro", I'll refrain from comparing it to quadros for now.

All in one desktops are retarded. It has all the disadvantages of a laptop AND a desktop.

>Worse thermals
>No user replaceable parts
>No (internal) expansion Possibilities
>Can't take it with you

>>60826971
>>No user replaceable parts
except for the hard drive, ram and processor

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>>60825543
>Even the DIY crowd can't meet the iMac Pro price
There you have it folks, Apple's shill squad thinks that Lenovo is a DIY group that competes with Apple's price point.

Or does AppleInsider only hire homosexuals that can't English?

>>60826938
>get more
Ok, but you still lack TB3, 2.5/5GbE, and a 5k display
You might not need them but it's hardly better if you're doing any kind of work that needs them.
>>60826873
Got a link? The only ones I see have 2.5 and 5GbE.
>>60826971
Totally agree, but I suspect this is targeted at business users who will never upgrade or replace parts at the component level.
Basically people who buy iMacs now and can't justify a full Mac Pro setup can get this (meaning, they can request it from their IT department)
It's not for people like me and you.

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1) nobody will buy an iMac pro
2) people who have enough money will rather spend just on the monitor $3k for an EIZO or even more on a Sony OLED
3) if the old McTrashcan overheated what will happen to this?

Overall I give around 3 points out of 10

>>60827010
>what is reading comprehension

>>60827054
>What is basic exposition in the English language

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>>60825543

>>60825543
Do people not realize that $5000 is the STARTING price? The fully specced price will be much higher.

>>60826988
Those aren't user replaceable, as they are hard to get to and void warranty if you open it up. Except for ram, I had no idea the imac had a ram door.

>>60827028
>TB3, 2.5/5GbE
He has PCI and displayport so no need for TB, and he has 10gbit Ethernet.

>>60826723
>implying

>>60825592
>what is pirating

>>60827028
TB3 is useless and relatively unavailable.
>2.5/5gbE
What. It has a 10gbE card. Who needs slower shit.
I did not see a 5k monitor in the specs I got.

Regardless, the point is that the Mac is hard to build to because it's using junk. I went with a 12 core because they don't make 8 cores that crack 3ghz for any benefit in price.
I went with 64gb of ram because it is the smarter choice.
I originally planned for a 2tb ssd because 1 is not enough, but the fucking p5000 is so expensive. Speaking of, it is a notable gpu. A true enterprise gpu that isn't some cut down mobile chip like they will use in the mac.

>10gbit Ethernet
>implying this is even useful

don't even want it

>>60827105
Wow.
Even my 5 year old EIZO can do native 10 bit (and 3D LUT which I'm assuming the iMac lacks) and 93% DCI which was pretty good at the time (probably only the HP LP2480zx had better coverage with its full RGB backlight)

Maybe in 6 months when this thing actually comes out the parts going into it will be a little cheaper

prices of computer parts tend to go down over time

What you are not factoring in is when some normie has an issue with his imac pro, he can just take the whole thing to a store in his town and they will fix it for free under warranty.

if you build your own you have to trouble shoot driver issues and cooling issues and who knows what and firmware updates and make sure everything works together then if anything breaks narrow down what is broken yourself and deal with that specific manufacturer over the phone and through the mail

that service of the whole device being under one warranty with intown repair is worth a lot to a normie

>>60826681
Lenovo use x99, iMac pro would use x299, x299 add Ethernet 10Gbps, still x299 need to be release.

>>60827124
Do you not realize that everyone is trying to meet the base specs?
>>60827131
> no need for TB
Debatable, but as far as a line item it's still missing
(also SD card reader but that's more minor)
> has 10gbit Ethernet
10GbE isn't always backwards compatible, 2.5 and 5 are actually newer than 10Gb.
Again, likely not a deal killer but still something the iMac Pro has that your build does not.
>>60827180
> 3ghz
Nobody said the 8-core is over 3GHz.
If you don't use TB3 that's fine, but this is geared towards people who use things like this:
https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/ultrastudio

>>60827285
Anything under 3ghz in 2017 is fucking pathetic.
Someone posted earlier a solution for thunderbolt

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>>60827105
>>60826723
MACTODDLERS COOKED AGAIN

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>>60825543
Even if you buy all the necessary components to match iMac Pro's specs, you'll still end up with SHIT user experience. And your resale value will be 50% less too.

Going against iMac Pro is a LOSE-LOSE proposition.

Apple wins again. Apple poojeet haters on a suicide watch!

>>60827529
>Anything under 3ghz in 2017 is fucking pathetic.
Few xeons have a base clock of 3GHz or higher
>Someone posted earlier a solution for thunderbolt
Yeah, the ThunderboltEX 3 is single port and ASUS only. Won't work with your EVGA board.

>>60827859
>match iMac Pro's specs
A shitty 8bit monitor from 1995?

>>60827882
So pick the Asus. I only went with the board I had because it was like $10 cheaper
>most aren't 3ghz
Still doesn't mean they aren't pathetic.

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>>60826723

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>>60827105
>>60826723
ITODDLERS

PERPETUALLY

CONTINUALLY

CONSTANTLY

INCESSANTLY

EVERLASTINGLY

UNREMITTINGLY

INTERMINABLY

PERMANENTLY

ETERNALLY

BLOWN

THE

FUCK

OUT

UNTIL THE END OF TIME

>>60826735
>macfags think apple uses pro cards

Hahahahaha

I for one think the new imac computer is great

The 5k display is going to push monitor makers to step it the fuck up, and they fucking need to. I'm sick of every year getting a rehash of 27" 1080p 60hz screens. What in the flying fuck are these companies even doing?

Where's my 4k/5k 32" 10-bit HDR ultrawide with low input lag and 120-144hz refresh rate and adaptive sync?

Why is it taking so long to get this out on the market? They were showing all this tech off 3 fucking years ago, and instead of actually fucking making it they just dump another 1080p screen on the market instead.

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>>60828000
>A shitty 8bit 5k display with an applel sticker is going to push monitor makers to step it the fuck up

>>60827171
Something that 13 year olds do. Something that I haven't done in over 15 years, and I still haven't spent more than 50 bucks in software in that time.

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>>60825543
can you get any more stupid?
the new iMac Pro doesn't ship until December

you can't try to compare prices with a machine already in the market, 6 months in advance

in December, you are paying the Apple tax BIG TIME, lad

>>60828000
Let me know when your """"""""great""""""" display can do true 10-bit instead of just faking it.
http://www.144hzmonitors.com/best-photo-editing-monitor/

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>18-core processor and high end video card cooled by 2 tiny laptop fans
Man, this thing is going to thermal throttle like a bitch.

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>>60828097

>drop monitor
>instead of losing $800 max you lose $5000
How is no one afraid of this? It's bound to happen to some.

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>>60828097
>>60828117
What did he mean by this?

>>60826723
I'm not defending apple but dude, you're putting the imac pro price tag on the regular imac.
The 5K iMac Pro does have a 10bit screen.

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>>60826723
>>60818988
>>60819088
>>60819093
>>60819101
>>60819103
>>60819112
>>60819113
>>60819160
MACTODDLERS

PERPETUALLY

CONTINUALLY

CONSTANTLY

INCESSANTLY

EVERLASTINGLY

UNREMITTINGLY

INTERMINABLY

PERMANENTLY

ETERNALLY

BLOWN

THE

FUCK

OUT

UNTIL THE END OF TIME

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>>60828335
>t. mactoddler

>>60828053
>lol windows is expensive, people pretend it's not a tax
>I don't pirate, you can't pirate, it's cheap anyways

Pick one faggot

>>60828828
>it's easy just break the law lol

not an argument

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>>60826723

>>60826723
How will mactoddlers EVER recover?

Why no Ryzen build? Easily shaves off $1000+ over a Xeon.

>>60829027
you get what you pay for

>>60825543
The difference is that the lelnovo can be upgraded without a knife and does not use laptop parts

>>60829042
Yeah a faster 8/16 processor that supports ECC still. I'll give you PCIe lanes, but to be fair Ryzen is a consumer part and still almost completely matches that crappy <3GHz xeon at 1/4 the price.. Looks like any of the threadripper parts will more than match what's in the Mac.

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>can't build something that isn't released until December

>>60825676
Even if you do, it's not going to be an AIO

>>60829284
>it's not going to be an AIO

Leave it to a mactoddler to care more about form than function. This is why you technology illiterates are universally regarded as brain dead retards.

>>60826715
A 5K P3 color gamut 10-bit display does tho

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>>60828727
DELET

>>60825543
>8bit trash

>>60829366
Function is important but form is too. AIOs save space.

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Does the iMac Pro screen have HDR? I'm guessing "no" as Apple is always 3 years behind on technology. You have to be beyond fucking retarded to spend $5K and not get HDR in 2017.

wincūcks btfo

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>>60828727
MACTODDLERS

PERPETUALLY

CONTINUALLY

CONSTANTLY

INCESSANTLY

EVERLASTINGLY

UNREMITTINGLY

INTERMINABLY

PERMANENTLY

ETERNALLY

BLOWN

THE

FUCK

OUT

UNTIL THE END OF TIME

>>60826938
>no ECC ram, no thunderbolt, slower storage, worse screen
>so you get more
how delusional can one person get

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>>60829461
>being this poor

>>60829589
>not wanting unnecessary clutter makes you poor
>wanting to maximize available space makes you poor
epik

>>60829367
>

>>60829367
>A 5K P3 color gamut 10-bit display does tho
Too bad macshit doesn't have that.

wat

>>60829573
you_are_this_mad.jpg
>>60830059
>go to lunch
>go shopping
>this thread is still going
ishygddt

>>60830122
umad?

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>>60826682
Even Win ME is a massive upgrade compared to ᴴᴼᴹOSᴱX

>>60826551
Just a question: how much time till all this thermal waste fuck the display from inside or it have some sort of insulation?

>>60830199
I'll take Mac OS X 10.0 over any Windows version any day.

>>60830199
Why is Applel such a joke?

>>60826246
>there isn't any consumer boards with 10GbE until x299 launches
This is wrong as there is or was never a rule that prohibited ethernet chips that aren't integrated into intels northbridges/southbridges.

I remember seeing a few 10GBit boards a few years back, of course these utilized additional thirdparty controller chips, but you are still full of shit.

>>60825543
>Imgur member "Squaruss" posted a comparison to a Lenovo workstation. The build included an 8-core E5-2620 v4 processor, a P910 motherboard with two Thunderbolt 3 ports, 32GB of 2400MHz ECC RAM, a Nvidia Quadro M5000 GPU, two 512GB M.2 PCI-E SSD in RAID configuration, a SD card reader, 802.11ac wi-fi, and a 1300W power supply listed as 92 percent efficient. No 10Gbps Ethernet option was available for the workstation, but the build includes a pair of Gigabit Ethernet ports.
I remember this getting posted yesterday and the poster getting BTFO by the fact that you have a far superior motherboard expandable up to 512GB of RAM with dual CPUs, a workstation graphics card at $2000, a much better monitor and 3 years on-site support.

>>60825543
>8-bit chinktrash panel with pretend 10-bit mode

>""""""""""""""""pro""""""""""""

lmao

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I own an iMac 5k and if I want to upgrade the CPU I LITERALLY need to cut the screen open.

>>60827105
Your Eizo costs as much as an iMac though. There's no way Apple would subsidize that much.

>>60825687
The parts inside aren't released or are not available, you can't make that argument

>>60830695
I don't get why they moved away from the magnets. I just need to put a piece of tape on mine and pull the glass off.

>>60830713
>t. poorfag

>>60830748
I don't think you understand, and I don't think I can bother explaining it.

>>60827105
Probably posting from a Dell Ultrasharp with dithered 10-bit. Maybe he's even posting from an "8-bit" dithered monitor.

>>60826464

Nigger what

>>60826800

>cobbled together parts

What the fuck are you doing on this forum? Close out this safari tab and go back to reading huff post on your MacBook pro in Starbucks.

>>60826988

I'll believe that when I see it. Apple has bee soldering fucking everything to the board with basically nothing user replaceable on the new mbp's

>>60830981
RAM looks replaceable, from the shots it definitely looks like DIMMs rather than soldered.
CPU is unknown, under that block could be anything, socket or soldered shit, who knows.
Hard drive is also unknown, from >>60828097 it looks to be behind the heatsink but you can't really tell if they're modular or not.

Anyway, Apple are already using their own proprietary connectors for drives so even if they are you would need some kind of adapter or stealing drives from other machines.

>>60830981
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APPTejhw8F8

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>>60830981
>I'll believe that when I see it.

>>60827131
>Except for ram, I had no idea the imac had a ram door.
The iMac Pro doesn't have one, they removed it in order to make room for their new cooling solution.

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/GN2tYr

I think I have to compromise the RAM with this CPU because there are no ECC 2666 options available (even if I disable compatibility filter), but otherwise it seems to be equal or better to the iMac Pro offering (the P4000 can drive four 5k displays for example) for $1000 less, so that $1000 could go into a better monitor or something.

its modular(tm)

>>60828867
But it is a reality

>>60826723
ahaha nigga what
I haven't owned an 8 bit monitor in years
what chinkshit are they outsourcing to?

>>60830772
http://appleinsider.com/articles/08/03/31/apple_hit_with_another_millions_of_colors_lawsuit

Apple has been sued because lie about color deep

>>60825543

These comparisons never work because macfags always dictate that the comparison hinges around whatever feature you can't easily find on equivalent PC hardware.

If you build a computer that is superior in every other way, but has 2 thunderbolt ports instead of 3, suddenly that missing port is the most important part. Same with 1 Gig ethernet vs 10 Gig ethernet. Same with 5K monitor vs a 4K monitor. Etc etc etc.

This of course only goes one way. If Apple only supplies a garbage GPU (which they do on ALL of their products), it doesn't matter that on a PC you could easily include a 1080ti, you don't get credit when comparing.

Even if you could create a computer with exactly the same specs, they still have an out because they will point to footprint or design or warranty or some other meaningless bullshit.

>>60825835
5 star post

>>60825543
https://pcpartpicker.com/list/pd7kKZ

>>60828053
>paying for digital content
all digital content money is donation
stop paying the digital jew
also
>paying microsoft any money ever

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>>60826723
>Sell workstation for creative production
>8 Bit Panel
>8 bit fucking panel

Holy shit you can't make this shit up.

>Pick really weird set of features that noone makes in popular formats
>see nobody can spec-for-spec beat apple builds?!
meanwhile
>build a system using popular/common parts that accomplish the same thing
>wipe the floor with the apple system in either performance or price

>>60830122
>Defend Apple
>BTFO'ed

Holy shit embarrassing.

>>60825592
>>60827171
>>60828053
You could easily get a legitimate W10 pro licence from Microsoft by simply getting W8 pro from Microsoft on release and then upgrading to 10.

>>60829482
No, it doesn't. It doesn't even offer true 10-bit color.

>>60832566
>>60832680
>muh bits
holy shit it's Sega vs Nintendo all over again.
Bits mean literally nothing, windows is limited to 64bit for fucks sake, which is a 2002 bitmap.

>>60832723
Nice bait heres your (You).

If your not then that is just actually sad.

>>60825687
For high end workstation, the hardware they use makes no sense.

The comparable (well, slightly better) Ryzen 7 + X370 system (whole PC without 10G NIC and GPU) is mere $1100.
https://pcpartpicker.com/list/CCYVQV

Then you can add:

+$200 - for 64GB RAM
+$150 - dual SFP+ NIC (nobody uses fucking RJ45 10GE).

Then you can proceed to blow $3900 on GPU and display, if you need it. If Apple puts in there something of comparable worth, then sure, however gauging price on unreleased HW in december is the marketing trick here I guess.

>>60828000
what? there are at least 2 really fucking good 5K displays, and more amazing 4K displays than you could count.

>>60826723
That's not the iMac Pro though.

>>60832742
>however gauging price on unreleased HW in december is the marketing trick here I guess
you are spot on with this
it all depends on what the unreleased xeon and vega card offer
and how much they'll go for

and that's why your list is complete bs
you also can't ignore that applel is using ECC ram and a cpu that supports it

>>60832785
>>60828727


Read the thread idiot.

>>60828097
well xeons usually stay pretty cool, but yeah that and a vega is gonna output some legitimate heat. Probably won't thermal throttle since the thermal design seems adequate, but it will sound like a fucking jet if you're rendering footage.

>>60832818
Ryzen does support ECC.

>>60832865
still need to buy it

>>60832824
Not zyr, but did you read the article?

>>60832818
If you use exact same hw as apple, then sure, you end up somewhere well above $2k with the base system. That's why it makes no sense, there's no reason for server hardware in a desktop, when desktop hardware of better performance costs about a half, it's only less reliable because it doesn't need >1year uptime.

>it all depends on what the unreleased xeon and vega card offer

Well, one can speculate, I suspect the GPU and CPU won't be anything exciting.

The CPU is very likely to be E5-26xx line. There's a slight possibility it will be E7-48xx, which costs arm and leg, but if that were the case it could justify price of the system on material cost alone (the cpu still doesn't make sense in desktop tho). Again, Ryzen 1700 and 1800 are comparable to that, and are 30-40% cheaper.

Vega is most likely the one announced by AMD, say Vega Nova, announced at $600, or if 16GB version, $800.

So I'm putting hopes in their display. It doesn't look very good from specs alone as announced, but it could come out pretty good in reality (apple panels are historically good quality, even if they looked shite on paper).

>>60825687
same parts but not a gimped piece of shit os ;^)

>>60832723
Apple shill pls go and stay go.

>>60826884
If it was a shitty switching PSU, that would be accurate. might only be able to produce 1300watts at PEAK

>>60833111
I think you are too stuck in >>>/v/ to see why one would want ECC ram and a professional video card in a workstation desktop
you can't just use the cheaper gaming version of everything and say apple is overpriced and pointless

>>60826086
Dang guys it has THREE USB ports. Glad they didn't forget to highlight that.

>>60830764
Go back to /r/iamverysmart faggot.

>>60833239
*FOUR

>>60828727
Mactoddlers will defend this.

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>Support for 10-bit spatial and temporaldithering.
from imac pro product page, so it's the same situation as the non pro model.

>>60825543
That computer has no place in the world.
If you have ever quoted a repair for apples AIO builds you would know this.

Usually the GPU fries first because its unable to cool itself. Or the GPU fries the HDD because the whole thing is a heat trap.

This is what happens when a computer is designed by marketers and not engineers.

>>60826086
>Thunderbolt ports and USB ports are features
Kek

>>60830258
>X 10
"Mac OS ten ten"

>>60833262
First day out of /b/?

>>60829589
When you're not leaching your real estate from the public, space becomes an actual concern.

>>60833262
Go back.

>>60833817
Mac OS X is the name of the OS, 10.0 is the version

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>>60826723

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>>60834121
Mac OS X was rebranded to OS X and then rebranded to macOS

>>60834208
The names are not retroactive.
>10.0-10.7
Mac OS X
>10.8-10.11
OS X
>10.12-10.13
macOS (fuck that though, it's still OS X)

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>>60834208
Get out pedophile.

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>>60834226
fair enough

>>60834233

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>>60825543
Faster CPU for less money with a far better display set up

>>60834317
>non-ECC memory
>muh gaymen GPU
>SATA SSD

>>60825543
>appleinsider investigates apple, finds apple better than competition

>>60834332
Ryzen Supports ECC, it just needs specific motherboard combos, not going to bother with that, the 1080 will be as fast as Vega AMD has no high end GPUs right now, there's still almost $1500 left in the budget for anything else, you could easily fit a 1TB PCI-e SSD

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>>60826086
Bam
Cons:
>no thunderbolt
>2400mhz ecc instead of 2666, might be overclockable though
I don't think you can really get 4 thunderbolt ports outside of Macs. I saw some mobos with two connectors and some others with a single connector and a thunderbolt header but that would only get you an extra 2 ports for a total of 3 with an add-on card.
Also, the RAM is unbuffered ECC so it works with Ryzen.

>>60827276
This shit never happens unless the concept of legos truly escapes your grasp. Worst case scenario you end up with DOA components which is under warranty and will be handled just as and if not more quickly than an Apple replacement assuming it arrives DOA. Even that is rare.

>>60834355
I don't care what it can support, the point is that you're suggesting a gaymen rig as an alternative to a workstation. Plus it's not an AIO.

>>60834371
5K at 27" is just stupid though, 4k is already dense enough

>>60834398
Who gives a shit if it's an AIO? it's $1500 cheaper for more performance. you'd get an extra workstation with the money saved on just 2 of them.

It also won't completely thermal throttle and overheat, there's a damned good reason you don't shove 300W worth of components into an AIO shell.

How is it not a workstation?

>>60834436
5k is to display 4k footage plus toolbars when video editing

>How is it not a workstation?
no professional video card for one

>>60834436
>5K at 27" is just stupid though, 4k is already dense enough
Well isn't the whole point that it matches what the Mac can do? Also, it's a 10-bit monitor.

>>60834436
>Who gives a shit if it's an AIO?
Should be rather obvious, people who buy AIOs. Who does isn't important, the point is that they're two separate form factors. It's like saying lol that laptop sux xDDD I could build a much better desktop for that price lmao
>It also won't completely thermal throttle and overheat
You don't know how well the iMac Pro cools, it doesn't come out till the end of the year.
>How is it not a workstation?
Non-ECC memory, gaymen GPU

>>60834462
It's an 8-bit monitor that uses dithering to simulate 10-bit

>>60834466
>Non-ECC memory, gaymen GPU
>ryzen
>gaming CPU
idk if ur meming but the Ryzen has shit IPC compared to an i7, it's not made for games

>>60834482
I never said anything about the CPU, you dumbass. Although since we're talking workstations an Opteron would be more proper.

>>60834398
>Plus it's not an AIO.
That's a good thing.
It means it won't overheat and throttle under load and if something dies you can swap it out immediately instead of having to take the whole thing to an Apple Store and wait days.

>>60834461
>5k is to display 4k footage plus toolbars when video editing
I'll let you in on a little secret. No one gives a fuck about 1:1 representation when doing editing.
Editors will spend a lot of time zooming in and out of portions of scenes anyway. Do you think no one is recording in 8k because there are no 8/9/10k monitors available to edit it on?

>>60834461
>5k is to display 4k footage plus toolbars when video editing
Okay? Or you can have 3 4k displays for far better productivity

>>60834466
>You don't know how well the iMac Pro cools, it doesn't come out till the end of the year.
A 1080ti cooler is larger than the cooler for the iMac Pro, and the iMac needs to cool a CPU and GPU with tiny ass blower fans with only one tiny vent opening

>>60834461
>>60834466
All a professional Video card gives you is better drivers for CAD/3D applications and access to true 10-bit color. For photoshop/video editing a professional GPU isn't going to help much.

You could throw in an WX 7100 if you really wanted to, it's $619
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814105069

>>60834480
>>60834462
True 10-bit monitors are way more expensive, the iMac Pro display only had 92% Adobe RGB I thought.

>>60834482
>but the Ryzen has shit IPC compared to an i7
it's 10% behind the i7 7700K in games, 20% in the worst cases, it's like 100fps vs 120fps, when paired with 1080ti SLI the R7 and i7s start to tie even at 1080p.

>>60834482
He said gaming GPU, not gaming CPU.

The iMac Pro has ECC RAM and a workstation GPU. The build has non-ECC RAM and a gaming GPU.

GPU can be easily solved by going for a P4000 or P5000 but part of the problem is that the AMD GPU in the iMac Pro is a fantasy GPU. No one knows anything about it so there's no way to price an equivalent.

>>60834522
Again, how do you know it throttles?

>>60834525
>A 1080ti cooler is larger than the cooler for the iMac Pro, and the iMac needs to cool a CPU and GPU with tiny ass blower fans with only one tiny vent opening
Sounds like you're making more assumptions.
>All a professional Video card gives you is better drivers for CAD/3D applications and access to true 10-bit color. For photoshop/video editing a professional GPU isn't going to help much
I don't give a shit what your excuse is, workstations don't have gaymur cards.

>>60834498
>I never said anything about the CPU, you dumbass.
Well I'm sorry, I guess I just never thought anyone would be enough of a retard that they'd recommend a Quadro over a GeForce.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LC_sx6A5Wko
>b-but muh double precision tflops
The last Nvidia card with good double precision performance with the Titan Z.
>Although since we're talking workstations an Opteron would be more proper.
It really wouldn't.
https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+Ryzen+7+1800X&id=2966
https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+Opteron+6380&id=2498
>>60834547
>The iMac Pro has ECC RAM and a workstation GPU. The build has non-ECC RAM and a gaming GPU.
It's not my build so I'm not defending the RAM, I'm just saying he's dumb.

>>60834573
>Well I'm sorry, I guess I just never thought anyone would be enough of a retard that they'd recommend a Quadro over a GeForce
I'd never recommend a Quadro nor a GeForce.

>>60825687
hehehehe guys Apple sucks because Tim Cook is a fag or something hold my beer I'm going in

boobeeboobeeboop umm nah going back to Overwatch brah just kidddin

>>60834525
>All a professional Video card gives you is better drivers for CAD/3D applications
tl;dr marketing lies
>and access to true 10-bit color.
http://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/3011/~/10-bit-per-color-support-on-nvidia-geforce-gpus
The only thing those professional cards give you is support for that crazy 8k Dell display, the consumer ones just crash on it.

>>60832723
almost got me

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>>60834573
>>60834547
Ryzen can easily support ECC, the point is simply to show a build with more performance for less money, the GPU performance is about equal, you can easily throw in a professional GPU, but most applications don't need one as most applications don't need ECC, why would photoshop need ECC?

>>60834553
>Again, how do you know it throttles?
I want you to think for just a second about what it takes to properly cool intel's X99 chips, it's usually a 240mm AIO or very large tower cooler, here is a 120mm AIO review, unless you crank the fan which results in 53db at 2500RPM, your CPU runs hot as fuck

>>60834590
Directly from that page
"Due to the way most applications use traditional Windows API functions to create the application UI and viewport display, this method is not used for professional applications such as Adobe Premiere Pro and Adobe Photoshop.These programs use OpenGL 10-bit per color buffers which require an NVIDIA Quadro GPU with DisplayPort connector."

You need professional GPUs for True 10-bit color in professional applications

>>60834636
>I want you to think for just a second about what it takes to properly cool intel's X99 chips, it's usually a 240mm AIO or very large tower cooler, here is a 120mm AIO review, unless you crank the fan which results in 53db at 2500RPM, your CPU runs hot as fuck
You can't say shit till you know how it performs.

>>60826464
fuck off pajeet

>>60825543
iMac Pro isn't good as a workstation. AMD doesn't support CUDA which is a standard for GPU computations. AMD CPUs can be cheaper at computational cost. None of them can be replaced.

>>60834674
In the terms of programming Macs are a more pajeet thing than a Linux PC because they don't require insightful knowledge of the technology.

>>60834660
Do you lack understanding of basic thermodynamics? Intel's 3.2GHZ Xeon has a 135W TDP, and apple's iMac Pro claims a 4.5ghz turbo boost, and that's not even getting to the 18 core option which would be completely impossible to cool in that AIO

It doesn't have a chance in hell of cooling the components, the Trash Can Mac Pro had overheating issues

https://ark.intel.com/products/92979/Intel-Xeon-Processor-E5-2667-v4-25M-Cache-3_20-GHz

>>60834677
If you're on a mac you're using Final Cut Pro which is highly optimized as is, and Probably photoshop which doesn't really even need a GPU for most things.

For anything else you wouldn't be using a Mac

>>60834729
Call me in December when you actually know how well it does.

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>>60828727
MACTODDLERS

PERPETUALLY

CONTINUALLY

CONSTANTLY

INCESSANTLY

EVERLASTINGLY

UNREMITTINGLY

INTERMINABLY

PERMANENTLY

ETERNALLY

BLOWN

THE

FUCK

OUT

UNTIL THE END OF TIME

>>60834748
Do you know anything about computers in general? Do you really not understand that you can't cool 300W with two tiny blower coolers and a tiny ass copper heatsink.

>>60834553
>Again, how do you know it throttles?
Because it is an AIO with shit all space to fit a decent heatsink that has to handle all of the thermal load of both the CPU and the GPU, each with only two heatpipes to transfer ALL the heat from them to the heatsink in order for it to be dissipated.

Basically, it's an impossible situation to run under load.

>>60832670
Yea let me just get in my time machine

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>Intel in current year

>>60825543
But wouldn't costing as much as or less than its Windows counterpart not make it "special" anymore?

>>60834797
Of course I do. What I also know is that this computer isn't out yet so all you can do is speculate.

>>60834802
>>60834748

>>60834879
We can make educated guesses based on the knowledge of existing processors and coolers.

>>60834902
>We can make educated guesses
In other words: We can speculate

>>60834879
>apple meme toys
>not throttle

Pick one.

>>60834909
I've got quite a few Macs that don't throttle.

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>>60825543

iMac

>pro

>>60834916
2 rupees have been deposited at your designated shitting street Pajeet.

>>60834908
Well I'll be here in December ready for you to eat your shit.

>>60825687
https://pcpartpicker.com/list/VQKCnn

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>>60826829

>appleinsider

>>60834879
>>60834908
No you idiot, it's basic fucking thermodynamics, why do you think most apple products thermal throttle or run hot as fuck? Every Watt used in a PC component is turned into waste heat that you need to dissipate.

>>60834939
I'm not shilling anything, just stating facts.

>>60834978
>Every Watt used in a PC component is turned into waste heat that you need to dissipate
Yes, you retard, that is basic fucking thermodynamics. And until you see how well it cools, all you can do is speculate.

>>60825543
>people can't build a computer with components that aren't on market yet nor is the price or the date of first sale known
>AppleInsider

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>>60835004
The iMac's components at minimum will use 300Ws under full load

This cooler with a proper 140mm fan is a 300W TDP cooler

This cooler does not fit into the iMac Pro

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>>60835004
Speculation from experience says this will be a overheating throttling piece of shit.

Only delusional mactoddlers would speculate otherwise.

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>>60825543
I'll buy one if everything is upgradable. I could forgive a soldered CPU but not the RAM, hard drive, or GPU.

The only thing stopping me from buying more Macs is the lack of repairability and upgradability.

>>60835071
Everything is soldered, you might be able to remove the hard drive, but you wouldn't use a workstation with a hard drive anymore, PCI-e Storage and the rest of your storage is on a NAS

>>60830772
He probably didn't pay $5000 for an 8-bit monitor though :^)

>>60835085
The RAM is certainly upgradeable, I don't know about the rest.

>>60835085
That's still a fucking hard drive, you idiot.

>>60832670
let me grab my time-machine right quick

>>60835099
I thought they were making it soldered this time around, heard that somewhere during the coverage, Lisa already reviewed it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jK85P0m2Tck

>>60835027
Forget that idiot, he's baiting the living shit out of you.

I'm just hoping the first iMac Pro starts a literal housefire.

>>60835131
There are photos of the guts >>60828097 where you can clearly see the RAM is socketed.

>>60834970
Nice gaming build, but it's not even comparable to an 8 core Xeon+32gb ecc memory+10gbit Ethernet, thunderbolt ports, 5k display
I'll give you a bonus point for including an ups

>>60835269
https://pcpartpicker.com/list/GN2tYr

>>60834978
You seem angry.

It seems that you are poor and can't afford a Mac.

>>60835546
I'm not stupid enough to buy a mac I think you mean

>>60835277
No

>>60835546
>t. mactoddler poorfag that's too poor to afford a real 10bit monitor

>>60835594
It is about as equivalent to an iMac Pro as we can get right now, not knowing what the Vega shit can do.

>>60825543
What the fuck?

They seriously say that $5000 is a fair price for this piece of crap?

>>60832742
No thunderbolt port
No 32GB ECC ram
No ~Vega GPU
No 10GB ethernet

Not quite the same

>>60833216
>professional video card in a workstation desktop
anything that isn't quadro is trash tbphf

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>>60835630
>It is about as equivalent to an iMac Pro
Yeah, no.

Keep trying.

>>60826859
So you want to introduce lag and when it's lagging call people out that your imac is smoother? Sorry sunny Jim not going to work

>>60826086
Definitely Broadwell Xeon D

>>60835706
You forgot the most important:
No apple sticker

So am I understanding this right? They're saying this thing dissipates a kilowatt of power but it's an all in one? Holy shit dude. That's either a loud fan or a throttle fest.

>>60835826
I'm sorry if you can't look past the outward appearance.

I suppose that is worth the last $1000.

>>60835930
tim cook has really created the ultimate cooling solution this time

You do realize that Apple will eventually lock out OS X the same way it locked out iOS, right? Soon you won't be able to run any programs not approved by Apple.

This is a common scheme employed by a ton of organizations, dating back to early video games. Sell the hardware at a loss, make the money back through platform gains. Remember, Apple takes a cut out of every app store sale. Since there is no alternative app store, Apple owns the user. If developers want to get to the user, they gotta pay Apple.

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>>60835972
>Using outdated CPU
>Not using 3GB/s SSD
>Not using proper Vega 16GB HBM2 11Tflop GPU (price unknown since it's not out yet)
>5k monitor (Panel worth at least $1.200)
>Not using Intel 10GbE (probably $450-500)
Should I go on?

>>60836012
Yeah, no.

That's not happening.

Apple knows devs use it and they keep iOS separate, as the more "locked down" device to protect your identity.

Apple is not a degenerate company, they actually care about the small market that the Mac has (below 10%). They won't gimp the market.

They have added such things as SIP (System Integrity Protection) which can be disabled, but these just lock down kernel extensions. And also disabled non App Store applications from running, but it's an easy bypass (or you can completely disable from Terminal).

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>>60836065
>Apple is not a degenerate company

>>60836040
>Not using proper Vega 16GB HBM2 11Tflop GPU (price unknown since it's not out yet)
That isn't in the $5000 base model. The performance of either Vega GPU is unknown.
>Not using Intel 10GbE (probably $450-500)
Did you miss the 10GbE card in the build?
>Using outdated CPU
Using the equivalent CPU to the model in the base build.
>Not using 3GB/s SSD
The 960 Pro is a 3GB/s SSD.
>5k monitor (Panel worth at least $1.200)
Your complaint is that the 5k monitor I picked isn't expensive enough?

Please, go on.

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>>60836084
>$215 billion Revenue in 2016
>$256.8 billion Cash on Hand
>49% of Smartphone marketshare
>75% of Tablet marketshare
>9% of PC marketshare
>Holds many patents still used by other companies
>41 years in the industry and considered a tech giant

Nice try.

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>>60836095
You have failed. Try again.

It's known that Apple surcharge is only about $200-400 when it comes to the Pro line.

It was the case with Mac Pros, it's the case with this.

They're usually fairly priced all things considered. This myth needs to die.

>>60836118
I'm sorry, I thought you had more complaints.

It seems you have nothing.

>>60836129
You're just shitposting, I'm too lazy for a rebuttal because you have skipped other threads that debunk this myth that Macs are overpriced.

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>>60836107
>>$256.8 billion Cash on Hand

You mean 5B cash on hand and 250 stashed overseas, with 120B+ in dodged taxes and governments breathing down their necks to collect, and 120B+ in debt because no cash to fund operations.

Literally history's biggest bubble waiting to pop. The tears will be fucking fantastic.

>>60825543
>Little is still known about the "entry-level" iMac Pro, regarding technical specifications. For $4999

Aaand stopped reading right there.

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>>60836138
>Still supports Microshit, which was sued by the U.S. government for having a Monopoly in the 90s-2000s
>Still uses Winshit aka NSA botnet
>Still supports a company that built a legacy on terrible business tactics (Bill Gates & Steve Ballmer) and treating people like shit.
>Dumps all American CEOs and hires pajeets to replace them and live on American soil
>Ships all manufacturing to Foxxconn, same place they make iPhones.

>>60836137
You're the one fucking shitposting.

You didn't even properly read the build and threw up some complaints about it. Arguing over the performance of graphics cards that have no benchmark yet.
Claim to have more complaints yet nothing to show.

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>>60836159
>*yawn*

You seem angry and poor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=upzKj-1HaKw

>>60836188
>shitposting intensifies

>>60836190
Go to sleep.

>>60836231
So you really have no other complaints about the build? Maybe I didn't choose cheap enough PSU and case? Of is it because I put a keyboard and mouse combo on there by mistake and added another mouse.

>>60836257
I already told you I've been using Macs since the 1990s and they are fairly priced.

The Mac Pro that came out in 2006 and all the Pro Macs after have been fairly priced.

I'm too lazy to type out again or find infographics to point this out.

You're just shitposting and sucking dicks in the /g/ bubble.

Macs are beloved by the people who use it.

If it wasn't successful or needed, Apple would stop making them. They're hardcore Capitalists.

>>60834804
>>60835112
There is still a free update for people using assistive technologies

>>60836065
It'll happen gradually. One day you'll suddenly not be able to bypass it any more.

>>60836279
So nothing. Thank you for confirming it.

There you have it folks, a fairly equivalent build you can have right now with $1000 leeway to improve the GPU/RAM/CPU/monitor.

Of course, in 6 months pricings will change, different components will be available. It'll be interesting to see how it prices then.

>>60826198

OS is free as in libre.

>>60826565
Windows is not relevant. This is a hardware discussion.

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>>60836107
>Answers degeneracy accusation by pointing to profits and an overwhelming control of nigger technology markets.

The market has been rigged so that degeneracy is the only thing profitable.

>>60836138
Windows is literal pajeetware, only good for playing video games

>>60836300
No it won't happen. They have to start from scratch for that to happen. They have told people countless times that macOS and iOS are separate things, but they share features like Handoff, etc.

This is why they didn't do what Microshit is doing, shoving the Tablet UI meme on desktop users.

>>60836303
You're an idiot.

>>60836342
Keep using Winshit.

>>60836342
>>>/pol/ please

>>60836382
>irredeemable applefag gets gtfo and has to resort to OS insults

>>60829482
to be fair, HDR is shit at the moment anyway

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>>60825543
>appleinsider

>>60829461
>AIOs save space
umm, not really? you can make builds very small these days without much effort or cost, even ones that stick into the backs of monitors. if anything a DIY build is better because the PC can be placed anywhere within reason, like spaces that would never be used otherwise and won't get in the way, then you just have the monitor which can be mounted.

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>>60835022
Consider the dinky ass coolers on most reference GPUs like the 1080FE or Vega FE though, the one in the iMac Pro is quite a bit larger and uses two squirrel cages instead of one. It'll certainly be fine for the typical use case of a full load on CPU/GPU alone with a partial load on the other. For P95+Furmark maybe not unless they really crank the shit out of those fans but that still wouldn't be any different from something like the Titan XP which comes with only pic related and just barely escapes throttling at 300w with 80% fan speed in Guru3D's review.

>>60836459
>t. virgin

>>60834371
>no thunderbolt
Dropped

>>60836573
Na, I think that heatsink is larger than the cooler in the iMac Pro, looking at >>60828097
There's also the fact that your GPU cooler is directly on top of the GPU, which often has heat pipes as well but is also a big slab of metal to soak up heat from the chip, while in the iMac Pro it is entirely reliant on just two heatpipes to draw all the heat away from the chip to the heatsink.

And there is zero VRM cooling in the iMac Pro.

>>60837703
Dude, have you used an imac before? The entire back frame of the computer is basically a large heatsink during heavy use.

>>60826739
fuck off back to 9gag

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>>60825543
>unknown xeon processor
>unknown vega gpu performance with unknown pricing
what the fuck do you expect?
8core ryzen already supports ECC, so you can get the whole build with 1080ti for like $2000 and a monitor for similar price
I'm pretty sure it's still going to be cheaper to get a build with threadripper, ECC RAM and high-end vega
that's probably like $2000 max
then you get mobo, psu, case and all that other small shit etc for like another $1000 and a good 5k monitor for like another $2000 if you wanna go crazy?
that's 2x cores and better gpu, already way better than the $5000 entry model
>>60826723
AND A SHIT PANEL
WELL WHAT DO YOU KNOW, LOWER THAT MONITOR PRICE DOWN TO LIKE $1000

>>60837703
Reference coolers like the one I posted don't have heatpipes and they're certainly not a big slab of metal, the Titan XP's heatsink is about 3x4 inches. In that render of the iMac the heatsink takes up about 1/6 of the 25.4" width of the whole system so the shorter side of the heatsink is at least as long as the long side of the Titan XP heatsink.

>>60834772
spotted the poor

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>>60827276
>What you are not factoring in is when some normie has an issue with his imac pro, he can just take the whole thing to a store in his town and they will fix it for free under warranty.
>if you build your own you have to trouble shoot driver issues and cooling issues and who knows what and firmware updates and make sure everything works together then if anything breaks narrow down what is broken yourself and deal with that specific manufacturer over the phone and through the mail
>that service of the whole device being under one warranty with intown repair is worth a lot to a normie

TRUE

>>60839998
the ultimate redpill is realizing that the normie is using the imac to update social media, maybe run photoshop, or even premier. they will generate thousands, paying for the imac, a car, a house even... while the average /g/ is just interested in faggy games

>>60836791
>t. faggot

>>60841022
>t. I live with my mom and make no money

>>60825543
>>60825824
That was ALWAYS the case with Apple

>>New machine announced
>Competitively priced
>>6 months after release
>Same specs, same price as on release day
>>12 months after release
>Same specs, same price as on release day
>>2 years after release
>New model announced (competitively priced)
>30% discount on 2 year old hardware

Long-time professional Mac users know you get fucked if you deviate from Apple's blessed schedule.

See https://buyersguide.macrumors.com/

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ITT: poor people arguing over computers neither side could afford

>>60825543
>Fewer features

Well fuck. If that's true, I will surely buy the mac! But can it play my games? No? Well then that seems like fewer features on the apple side to me, buddy!

But I got told, sure.

>>60829461
AIOs save space

My SilentiumPC Alea M50 supports almost any GPU you can throw at it, I can watercool the fuck out of it and the footprint fits a 60cm desk quite nicely with plenty of room to spare in front. I dare you to fit a full sized graphics card into the iCan.
>implying apple supports any hardware without a fruit on it
How naive of me.