120Hz iPad Pro

>>60762341
Interesting.

Can't wait to see it on macbook too

>>60762341
Begone, Apple shill.

>>60762341
Sounds like botnet.

>>60762341
sounds neat but I have yet to see anything run at 120fps on an iPad. It still will be better than most android tablets and make itself look smoother thanks to that screen.

Honestly, I wouldn't mind getting it, so long as it isn't expensive as fuck.
I know it's more than likely going to be, but here's to hoping.

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>>60762759
>>60762797

LIKE
FUCKING
CLOCKWORK

>>60762341
dayum, brah, can't wait to fire up facebook on that thang, mmmh mmhhh.

>>60762797
A fast refresh panel sounds like a botnet?

>>60763265
Starting at $650
Honestly, you can't get a better hardware from any laptop on that price range.

>>60763452
>based on what you're looking at

>>60762341
Refresh screen 120hz TV do it but is useless.

>>60762341
Nice but how will you see the difference if nothing will be able to run at 120fps?

All those games in the store are either too demanding or do not support any framerate over 60 because that could break the physics(google skyrim physics fps glitch)

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>>60763348
>font
Kill me

>>60763540
True, prob the "effective" rate with the backlight, that would be funny.

>>60763544
Mostly UI animations, scrolling and simple 2D apps.

>>60763544
You do realize that it is very much possible to code a game engine in a way that doesn't tie game physics to fps? (Google... I don't know, "game physics and fps")

Games probably won't run at a higher fps than currently, but the OS animations and browsing should be snappier

>>60763544

Oh you poor Hertzlet, he's never navigated a UI in over 60Hz.

>>60762341
Without root access to the UNIX system, it's just a useless piece of plastic for Instagram posting.

> Android still baretly into 60fps animations
> iOS on 120fps
BTFO

>>60763348
>back when ponyposting was allowed
good times

LAGDROID BTFO

>>60762341
>this thing has a faster refresh rate than 99% of PC monitors
Don't forget, it also has a HIGHER RESOLUTION than 99% of PC monitors!

Crazy.

>>60763640
>You do realize that it is very much possible to code a game engine in a way that doesn't tie game physics to fps? (Google... I don't know, "game physics and fps")
Yes i do realise they can run on higher framerates the problem is will the shitty developers behind "free 2 play" games bother with it
>Games probably won't run at a higher fps than currently, but the OS animations and browsing should be snappier
So, a pretty feature that is useless, more power demanding and battery draining?

>>60762341
Apple is shit but at least they are pushing 120hz, it actually makes a difference

>>60763348
That is a poor example because it's still retarded to have a resolution that high on a laptop. When the first 5k iMacs came out, /g/ was praising Apple.

>>60763764
Do you really need less battery life?

>>60763793
Not really useless. Have you even used a 120 / 144 Hz monitor? If that's your argument, why even bother going above 30 fps. As for its impact on battery life, that remains to be seen.

Cool, happy to see this. Clever to adjust it for still images too

This is actually fucking incredible. There is no mobile device with a screen that fucking good, wide color and SIX HUNDRED nits of brightness refreshing at 120Hz.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/8852/mediatek-demonstrates-120-hz-mobile-display

Sorry iToddler, Apple didn't innovate this time, just like every other time. Someone else did it before them, they claim it as their own and brag about "innovation"

Are Apple haters, dare I say it, BTFO?

>>60763237
it will work with the browser while scrolling

>>60763864
>Not really useless. Have you even used a 120 / 144 Hz monitor?
Yes it was quite nice but useless for anything that did not involve professional FPS gaming. plus you need a good gpu(if not gpus) to hadle most games at for example 1440p@144fps
> If that's your argument, why even bother going above 30 fps.
Unlike 60fps to 120fps,60 fps is a necessity for me because be eyes hurt with anything else
> As for its impact on battery life, that remains to be seen.
Physics dictates it will happen unless they use a bigger battery and/or a much much more efficient GPU

>>60764012

>shit announced at a show and never released
>thinking 'first' means anything
>thinking all manufacturers don't explore tech at the same time but differ in the time they deem the tech mature to release

Silly pajeet, don't you know how this works and why Apple always wins? Its about execution. A high refresh rate panel isn't even innovation, for anyone. Its just a high refresh rate panel.

>>60764012
wow amazing, where can I buy those mediatek displays?

>>60763824
>Do you really need less battery life?
10 hours is not enough?

Apple does dynamic screen updares. Static shit = low updates (24Hz) and Games = high refresh rate. Videos = 24/29/60Hz depending on the source.

It's awesome!

>>60762341
120hz is useless except for games....... you dont even have a mouse curser, the only other noicable thing that 120hz improves. Fucking meme technology.

>>60764048
yup I guess so. This also allows them to market the blur-free meme as hard as the display industry does with 60hz< displays

VR headsets use mobile phone displays that push over 90Hz.
It's actually useful if you have a pen and write on the screen, as any lag ruins the illusion of actually writing.
And I'm sure it's going to be 60Hz most of the time in order not to drain the battery, 60 is good enough for animations.

>>60764049
>Physics dictates it will happen unless they use a bigger battery and/or a much much more efficient GPU
Would you stop being so condescending. "Its impact on battery life" obviously means that at this point, we do not know how big the hit on battery life will be and if it is properly accounted for by a larger battery / more power efficient technology.

You also don't need to quote every single sentence.

>>60764112
No it's not especially when encoding 1080p anime from the sd card with subtitles on VLC with brightness at 60 to 70%

Battery goes down like crazy

>>60763544

> Nice but how will you see the difference if nothing will be able to run at 120fps?

Apple's mobile processors have been 1 full year ahead of the competition (Snapdragon) since the iPhone 6 in 2014. Say what you will about their products but their silicon team is no fucking joke. The new A10X chip will probably take 120Hz without breaking a sweat.

>>60763793

> So, a pretty feature that is useless, more power demanding and battery draining?

They have variable refresh rates now (which isn't a first in a consumer product like they say, there's at least FreeSync / G-Sync) which means they can render at 24Hz or 120Hz depending on the displayed content. If 120Hz consumes significantly more battery, 24Hz will consume significantly less.

That's a neat application of the technology; I don't think any of the laptop companies pushing G-Sync in their gaming laptops has thought about doing this for battery life. (Not sure if they even can since they don't control the full stack)

Response times for touch based feedback from the device matters more if you care about smoothness in smartphone/tablets. So having 120 Hz won't matter to much other than for gaming

finally apple changes industry standards in a good way

Who cares, it still runs with iOS.

>>60762341
Apple continues its trend of putting great screens on horribly gimped hardware.

>>60762341
Niiice.
Though, why 20ms latency with the pen? Isn't that too high?

>>60764201
Intel was talking about this for a while for laptops + memory on the TCON for passive refresh, but they it takes a vertically integrated company (or one with the pull) of Apple to pull this off.

AUO has dynamic displays for the purpose of low power https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBR6PrjQTzQ&t=330s

>>60764327
>A10X
>gimped

How is Apple able to do this and get 10 hours of time?!??!!

>>60764327

>A10X
>gimped

Show me a more powerful processor in a tablet or phone. I'll fucking wait, you clueless retard.

iOS 11 actually seems pretty cool, they finally added things like a proper file browser and dock and things like that. I'm almost tempted to get the new 10 inch iPad Pro instead of the Samsung Chromebook Pro with Linux that I'm thinking about getting since I'm going to college this fall, especially with the Affinity Photo app they announced since I'm a photographer, and iOS will have much better stylus support than what I'll be able to get on Linux.

I have a beefy desktop at home so I don't need a Windows laptop or Macbook on the go, but I'm still annoyed that the iPad relies on the cloud for everything and you can't even do something as basic as hook up a USB stick to it, even if you have a USB OTG adapter.

>>60762341
Why the fuck does mobile trash get all the attention?

>>60764574

You, can't be serious, right? This person isn't actually this dumb is he lads?

>iPad has 120hz refresh rate and 2k resolution
>movies are still 24hz and 1080p

When it the rest of the world going to catch up already?

>>60764502
>>60764535
>The CPU is the only hardware it has
They finally added file browsing to it but the ipad is still toy tier with the lightning connector.

>>60764584
t. Mouthbreathing appledrone

>>60764607
>file browsing
>hardware

>>60764574
millions upon millions of users.

>>60764635
The hardware is bound to the software since nothing else runs on it.

>>60764159
Use Plex or Handbrake to transcode to something your iPad can play natively you goof. Your battery tanks in that situation because VLC is using the CPU to decode the video, which as it turns out, is incredibly inefficient.

I have marathonned shows with natively encoded video on 12h international flights on my iPad Pro and always have plenty of charge left over after landing. It's good quality shit too; not quite 10-bit 1GB per episode sort of quality, but much much better than HorribleSubs/CR quality and more than good enough for viewing on a fucking tablet.

>>60764674
lol, nice weasel words

>>60764586
Have you seen 48fps movies?
They look like shit.

>>60764704
Nice rebuttal.

>>60763640
It is possible a code things to scale with refresh rate, however the issue is that also takes more processing power. When you're very limited in processing power and have a unified ecosystem that up to this point did not have 120 Hz why in the fuck would you bother coding for 120 Hz if it's gonna make the game or application run worse?

We see a lot of games come to the PC as consul ports are limited to 30 FPS or 60 FPS, not because the engine can do higher frames but because everything's coded to only work at 60 at most. It might not be hard to alleviate that bottleneck but it still actual work people have to do what on an ecosystem where they don't fucking want to.

>>60764714
you think I am going to waste my time rebutting your relativist definitions

>>60763793
As for draining the battery, there's 2 things that do that. One of which is having a stupidly high resolution, as that demands more power to render what should be a very simple to the object, though hardware is gone to the point where the power that it takes to render at higher resolutions almost within margin of error it's still more power.

And then a higher refresh rate, it's the reason why e-readers can go weeks without being charged even on small as fuck batteries you get the screen set up once every couple of seconds to minutes and it's good to go indefinitely. This would allow the iPad to go from 60 Hz down to 24 Hz, and with future iterations possibly even lower I don't think anyone's ever really done a test that goes from 120 Hz to 60 and 30 in their power draw but I can easily imagine the hardware scaling back to only needing to display 24 frames a second would not only decrease power use but also the monitor refreshing would decrease power use, it's really hard to spin the set of bad thing.

The only real complaint that you can have from this is that they didn't get a panel that can run an even lower refresh rate.

>>60764607

You didn't even remotely respond to the point. You could have just not replied but you deliberately replied with some random shit and made yourself look even worse. Recognize when the winning, or at least salvaging move, is not to play. Jesus fuck, the IQ level of this board must be dropping by around 3 every year.

Show me a more powerful non-x86 mobile CPU, or just don't even respond.

>>60764049
You want to know how I know you've never use the high refresh rate monitor, I have a 144 and a 60 Hz right next to each other, if I drag-and-drop something on the 144 Hz it's smooth but if I take that file and move it over to the 60 Hz it feels like it's a stuttering mess anymore. Literally every fucking aspect of your computer becomes better the higher the refresh rate is.

To run a screen at 120 Hz need to have a GPU that's running at 120 Hz and you need to have the CPU able to feed the GPU, that demands power
Same thing for 60 Hz but to a lesser degree
now imagine your browsing the web, you scroll down and it's going at 120 Hz, then you stop scrolling it scales back to 24, and now it's using less power.

Now let's go over to YouTube, you play a video and now it's playing at 30 frames a 2nd your monitor decides I don't need to be running at 60 or 120 frames I'm going to run at 30, that is a lot of potential power that's being saved there granted relatively small and probably a sub 20% increase but it's a power savings that benefits you overall.

>>60764707
Have you seen 60fps interpolated anime? Aside from the random artifacts, they look amazing. Also there is no excuse for any CGI movie to be less than 60fps.

>>60764807
Battery drain also largely depends on third-party developers. Bad developers will constantly be requesting unneeded UI relayouts and unneeded repaints, sometimes to *the entire screen*. Apple has done things to try to mitigate this, having control of the whole stack, but in the end there's limits and devs just have to be good.

So if you're having battery issues with your iOS device, take a good look at the apps you're using. Generally speaking, the more native the UI the app is, the more likely it is to be efficiently written. Web wrapper apps are notorious offenders, but there are also some apps that just use a totally custom UI stack instead of UIKit and absolutely none of them are as efficient as UIKit.

– full time iOS app dev

>>60764933
The Hobbit was half an CGI movie and it was unwatchable in 48fps.

>>60764866
I never said that the CPU was bad, I said the overall hardware was functionally gimped, which includes the toy operating system that you're forced to run on it. Things like not having cursor support or needing a dongle to output video are ridiculous limitations for a product that's supposed to provide laptop functionality.
>non-x86
And that's one of the primary reasons.

>>60765003
Stop being autistic, you know exactly what I mean when I say CGI movie.

>>60765091
And I'm saying it's a nonsensical distinction.

>>60765003
agreed, high FPS might have more information than low FPS but stylistically low FPS is preferable in film
But computers/vidya should have high framerates

>>60762341
This is actually great. About two years ago I bought a 144hz monitor and I've been spoiled since. I bought a cheap android phone that had a 30hz refresh rate and it literally made sick. The feeling of nausea I got was the result of the slow feedback of the screen. I returned it and got one for double the price with a 60hz refresh rate, and the experience was much more usable. If apple makes an iPhone with a 120hz screen I'll definitely switch from android. The iPad tho is a pretty shit idea and I'm not interested in one.

>>60765207
Why not just sell your 144Hz monitor instead and
get used to the low framerate again?

>>60765318
>why not gouge out your eyes and live under an overpass

>>60765113
It's not a non-nonsensical distinction, you dumb cunt, do you play video games at 24fps?

>>60765318
>Why not just sell your color LCD monitor instead and get used to black and white CRTs again?

>>60765373
games and movies are different things

>>60765444
CGI movies are basically video games that are 100% cutscenes.

>>60765362
I have a low framerate monitor and I'm completely fine with it. They way you guys talk about 144Hz makes not want buy a monitor with high refresh rate ever.

>>60765451
Nobody gives a shit about the FPS in cutscenes.

Apple does something good for a change.

Now I'll just grab a good Android phone 2 or 3 months down the line with a 120Hz, since I don't want a toy OS.

>>60765488
Return to whatever shithole you came from.

>>60765501
Says the /v/tard.

Sir please the needful delete

>>60765513
You're a stupid 3rd worlder with a shitty toaster that can barely maintain 30fps in games and who doesn't understand the difference between a film with CGI effects and a CGI movie.

I'm pretty sure 120Hz is cpu clock speed op

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>>60762341
>iPad

>>60765469
Its absolutly amazing, but if you don't have a good graphics card for it then don't bother. Its nice how much they've come down in price. I bought an acer 144hz monitor last year for $200, and that was considered cheap. Now days they sell closer to 120 bucks

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>>60765553
stay mad pajeet

>>60762341
who is the target group for this astonishingly useless feature

>>60763749
Sup

>>60765542
By that "logic", shouldn't you pity me instead of being so angry?

>>60765597
normal people. 60hz is too low for daily use. It wasn't acceptable back in 1999, and it isn't acceptable today.

>>60765597
People who play mobile games and like buttery smooth UI animations.

>>60765619
I'd pity you if you admitted your ignorance and tried to improve yourself instead of wearing it like a badge of honor.

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>>60765058
>hardware funcitonally gimped, which includes the toy operating system
>hardware includes the operating system
What did he mean by this?

>>60765597
mobile gamers. normal ppl.

>>60765629
I went from a decent CRT to a shitty TFT with lower resolution and refresh rate and I didn't care.

> Adding features humans are objectively and biologically incapable of using
Did they throw in a 24bit audio DAC while they were at it?

>>60765637
What ignorance? All you do is come back to >muh vidya while we're talking about a very different media.

>>60765663
you aren't normal so your opinion doesn't matter

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>>60765637
>mobile games

>>60765722
Little kids deserve a nice, smooth experience when they're playing their Angry Birds.

I didnt know it was even possible to do that on a tiny tablet

Everyone likes to copy Apple so this is great

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>Apple introduces an objectively beneficial feature that puts their products ahead of the competition
>Android pajeets swarm in to excrete everywhere

Funny thing is, they'll be bragging about their 120Hz screens next year when Samsung and crew inevitably follow in Apple's footsteps.

>>60765575
>believing gooks
Almost as bad as pajeets.

>>60765718
What? The whole world switched to TFTs pretty damn quickly. And early cheap TFTs were really really shitty.

>>60765657
>Piece of hardware is only capable of running one operating system
>Why bring up the operating system when talking about the limitations of using the hardware
I wonder.

>>60763481
Also from any desktop. What's the point?
Completely different devices, for different purposes.

>>60765855
>Hardware=software
The retardation continues

>>60765834
alcantara's garbage.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aebUNgMhQV4

>>60765553
>needing a fan in your tablet

We're probably going to see 120Hz screens on the iPhone - and just like everytime, every other manufacturer is going to copy and fail.
Maybe when the Galaxy S9 puts 120Hz you'll see the Android lag with more clarity

>>60765916
No but the hardware is gimped by the software.

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>>60765827
>Mediatek introduces an objectively beneficial feature that puts their products ahead of the competition
>iToddler pajeets swarm in to excrete everywhere

Funny thing is, they'll be bragging about their LED screens next year when Apple and crew inevitably follow in Android's footsteps.

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>mfw bought an iPad Pro 9 inches 128gb with pencil 16 days ago and too late to return it
>a fucking 120hz 10-bit refresh

A-at least I get iOS 11 right g-guise

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what is the point of this? does it stick to a case or something?

https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MQ0W2/apple-pencil-case-midnight-blue?fnode=37

>>60766236
>iPad
see >>60765553

>>60766373
I will die before I have to use a pajeet poo 10

>>60766335
Just pee on it and see if you're preggers

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>>60766236
>buying a device right before keynote

Excellent! Now I can play candy crush and angry birds at 120fps!

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>>60766505
I wouldn't buy a first gen apple anything
9.7 is technically iPad Pro 2, they're stepping into 120hz and they have a tendency of fucking up everything on first try
Can't wait for normies to freak out and report "my pad thing is slow" because it switched to 24hz on accident

>>60762341
Why wouild you ever need 120Hz on a tablet?

You apple fags are just throwing money at Apple jews for no reason.

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>>60766972
>Why wouild you ever need 120Hz on a tablet?
Why would you need a color screen or a retina screen on a tablet?

>>60763689
>He doesn't know that iPads are made of glass and al-oo-min-ee-um

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>>60762341
Come back when iPads run a full version of OS X or at the very least something other than a poorly scaled phone OS. iOS is straight garbage.

>>60762341
>>60762341
So, freesync with radeon chill.

>>60764381
The pen on the current pro is 49 ms, a wacom cintiq has ~100ms input latency. Surface's stylus is 78 ms. This shit's best in class.

>>60767998
I can see it now, "For what purpose? who draws that fast????"

>>60762341
But can it play WEBM?

>>60768060
"I've been using 300ms input for years and never had an issue, apple is jewing you out for no reason"

>>60768073
But can it merge folders?

>>60768073
webm is dead.

>>60766876

>>60763741
>I can't wait to play my eSports on my iPad that I will have to repair for $800 in the next month

>>60768212
>being this mad
It's okay if you can't afford something, y'know?

>>60762341
Who the hell actually buys tablets to begin with? They peaked and died out years ago.

>>60768782
you're delusional and uninformed.

>>60766844

>not purposely forcing 24 FPS to maximize battery life

>>60762341
>>Refresh Rate also means it works better with Apple Pencil. 20ms latency.
huh? even 60Hz is only 16.6ms latency

>>60767057
that's a good question

>>60771112
16.6ms display latency in addition to whatever the processing latency is, numb nuts. 16.6 ms is the absolute minimum you can get if you could somehow get instantaneous 0.01ms lag on input. Processor improvements, software refinements, probably some pen hardware improvements, and the 8.3ms latency gain from the display all contribute.

>>60771267
that's really cool and all, but why would the pen polling be limited to the display's refresh rate?
even consoles' from the 80's could be programmed to decouple input from the display refresh rate

>>60768073
Does it have a smidgen of file system resiliency or data integrity?

>>60771308
>why would an input device be impacted by the display which drives it

hmm

>>60771340
it's not a light pen, is it?

>>60771371
It's the most advanced writing utility for entire humankind.

>>60765121
It's stylistically preferred because we're used to shit technology (low frame video). Special effects need to improve dramatically because of the increased temporal information. It's easier to spot fake shit with more frames.

>>60764535
Tablets and phones are gimped hardware.

Does anyone even care about Android tabs anymore? Peak was nexus 7, but haven't heard since that one surface knockoff nexus flopped.
I don't hear a drop from Samsung about them, and haven't seen an Android tablet screenshot since ICS.

-A ZenFone user

>>60763814
how are you still this retarded? does your operating system not scale properly?

>>60763764
If someone does a eDP board for this like for the iPad 3 when those screens where like $60 then I'd use one as a monitor

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>>60773364
>costs more
>requires more power
>more expensive to fix or replace
>bad for static content that need imperfect scaling
>bad for games in terms of performance
>doesn't offer a benefit for casual computer use besides smoother edges on things

I mean it makes sense on a gaming setup that is designed for that. it benefits games, it's on a desktop so power isn't much of a concern, any system like that will have the GPU to back it up, it might have other monitors for different content etc.

it makes much less sense on a mobile device, especially if it's not a mobile workstation or gaming device. it's pretty much only for smooth edges where personally I think it's not worth it. UI elements not being completely smooth doesn't bother me. having to scale videos up or games down does. I would prefer the longer battery life too.

this is why I don't want more than 1080p on my small laptop, I'm even fine lower than that as long as the panel is good and it's not 640x480 or something.

>>60762341
I wasn't expecting this. Actually pretty cool. I still probably will never buy a Tim Cuck era apple product, but if I ever want to buy an over expensive tablet this is the one I'll get.

>>60764112
>10 hours is not enough?
frankly no. any device in 2017 should get 10 hours MINIMUM. closer to 20 or even over for casual use should be the goal. but you see it in phones too, no ones cares that you can only use your $800 phone for 4 hours.

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>>60765575
>gook woman
>credible

>>60762341
enjoy your battery short life

>>60762341
> 10000000000$

Fuck that son.
Even if Android tablets lag behind, they still cost 1/4th the price. I mean my Note 10.1 tablet had QHD display and an S-Pen for what... 3 years now?

Would not ever waste so much money on a tablet as an iPad Pro.

>>60762532
I'd actually be really keen for it on macbooks.

I'd consider upgrading from my 2013 model.

>>60765553
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJWWtV1w5fw

>>60762341
>They can also dynamically adjust refresh rate based on what you're looking at. Which can save power.

So it will be a huge battery drain, and there will be an option to turn the refresh rate down, which everyone who wants >3 hours of battery life will do right out of the box? So it basically shouldn't exist? Great.

>>60762341
That doesn't sound half bad but I wonder what it will actually be able to run on 120hz. They would have to make some major hardware upgrades from previous versions to get consistent 120hz. If they manage to pull through I may consider getting one.

>>60764159
Sounds like your videos are in a format not supported for hardware decoding so it is using the cpu which is horribly inefficient.

>>60774801
It's has the most advanced mobile processor, screen and stylus on the planet.

>>60762341
>20ms latency
Are people supposed to draw with this, or is it just another gimmick to charge kids out the ass with

>>60764314
This.

>>60762341
People still use tablets?

Anyway, this is good news. It's a fucking disgrace that most screens are still 60Hz.

Oh wow ok buy this 1200 dollar tablet instead of a 300 dollar monitor sure

https://www.amazon.com/VG248QE-1920x1080-144Hz-Gaming-Monitor/dp/B01DDR0FE2?th=1&psc=1

>>60762341
>120 hz
Wow, Apple is desperate

>>60777214
Not enough to put back the headphone jack and accept that it's here forever

Does the 12.9 inch have a 120hz screen as well?

File: albanian fighter.jpg (284KB, 960x960px) Image search: [Google]

284KB, 960x960px

>>60775558
Don't go for the Touch Bar, please!

When will they let Steve come back? He is the only one that can run apple well

>wow, now I can play my games and have virtual reality on my iPad pro
-No one, never

>>60762341
120hz is a retarded meme, especially on a fucking tablet that can't even run anything that fast.
Why is there so much apple shilling lately?

>>60777359
I've got some bad news for you...

how incredible if we all get 120hz HiDPi in the future

>>60777614
What? Did they ban him forever?

>>60777552
>120hz is a retarded meme
at least it's not 144Hz

>>60777552
Found the poodroidtard

File: 1492861763464.gif (669KB, 480x480px) Image search: [Google]

669KB, 480x480px

>>60762341
>120xfaster
>diesxfaster
poeple will defend this

>>60773782
Wow, this thing has 1.5 RAM!

I will really enjoy this when I try that locked down piece of crap in an apple store