>2017 >not using emacs wtf are you doing /g/?

>>60677355
Using Spacemacs what are you doing?

>>60677355
I have to use Kinetis Design Studio for work :(

Also whenever I use emacs, I spend all my time making fun elisp programs to automate stuff but I never actually do any work

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using vim, a functioning text editor

>>60677355
For anyone looking to get into Emacs take a look at prelude. Also download the keybindings cheatsheet or try evil mode for vim keybindings

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>>60677376
spacemacs is totally overkill

what are the advantages of emacs as an editor over vim?
convince me and ill try it out

sublime text just werks :-)

>>60677839
Tramp, elsip, magit... but it also depends on what languages you use

>>60677869
Spouting names is not an argument. Why would someone want any of those things?

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>>60677899
Tramp is the most useful function of any piece of software I have ever used. Back in undergrad, I wouldn't even need to forward my graphical ssh session from our workstations; I could always just tramp in.

>>60677869
C and C++ mostly, some varying assembly as well
>tramp
doesnt seem very useful unless you work remotely which i dont

>elisp
i dont use lisp

>magit
could just as easily use fugitive plugin for vim if i want git inside my editor

>>60677899
Those are names you can put in Google and see some examples. I dont actually plan to convince you of anything. It's there for others to find some gems of Emacs. The stuff I wish I knew when I first tried Emacs and vim

Multithreaded emacs when?

>>60677937
Elisp is decent scripting language and it's really easy to program emacs to work like you want.
Tramp is nice because editing over ssh is just as easy as editing local files.

>>60677355
>2017
>Not using vscode.
Its like you dont wanna comfy

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>>60678262
>text editor phones home to redmond and shares usage data with cops
no thank you, anon

>wtf are you doing /g/?
I'M
USING
SUBLIME
TEXT

I tried Emacs for ~1y. Quitted.

> terrible GUI implementation, doesn't render well
> terrible TUI implementation
> default keyboard shortcuts are trash
> build-in terminals are trash, all 3 of them
> 1.5 million lines, what I use could be implemented in under 50k and better
> no sandboxing and security mitigations, impossible to audit yet can do anything
> legacy bloat
> elisp, because you really needed to reimplement common lisp with different keywords and worse optimization
> can't use other language for custom functions
> can't implement TLS properly
> annoying temp buffers and screensplitting
> slow macros
> slow functions
> terrible config tools, keeping startup low is hell

What's good: Magit, region-based selection, dynamic execution, philosophy behind Tramp (not sure with implementation)

>>60678818
and Dired, editing filenames as buffer with macros is best feature ever

>>60678818
>> terrible GUI implementation, doesn't render well
What doesn't render well? I've never had a problem with this. Could it be OS specific?
>> terrible TUI implementation
What do you mean by this?
>> default keyboard shortcuts are trash
Yes, it's a good thing those aren't hardcoded in
>> build-in terminals are trash, all 3 of them
Which built-in terminals? I use eshell quite regularly and enjoy it
>> 1.5 million lines, what I use could be implemented in under 50k and better
Is it 1.5 million lines of C?
>> no sandboxing and security mitigations, impossible to audit yet can do anything
Yep, that's a problem. That's why it's a good idea not to run extensions from sources you don't trust
>> legacy bloat
literally meaningless, any software that's used will develop some odd lumps
>> elisp, because you really needed to reimplement common lisp with different keywords and worse optimization
There is a partial implementation of guile emacs, which uses Scheme rather than elisp. I will agree, elisp has some rough edges
>> can't use other language for custom functions
see above. Also, why can't you call out to a third program? I believe emacs uses etags for this purpose
>> can't implement TLS properly
What's improper about it?
>> annoying temp buffers and screensplitting
How could these be improved?
>> slow macros
>> slow functions
Which macros and functions are slow? Or are you saying that the emacs macro and function implementation is slow?
>> terrible config tools, keeping startup low is hell
What do you mean "config tools", are you referring to the startup script system? My emacs starts quite quickly, although I did find it to be a bit of a drag using pre-built systems like spacemacs.

I'm considering trying out either evil mode or spacemacs.

Is it a meme? What should I expect?

>>60679161
evil-mode is just vim like bindings for emacs.
spacemacs is bloated package with gay defaults.

You should use emacs and learn emacs bindings, it's useful to know them if you use linux because nano, bash and some other stuff also uses them.

You should not use spacemacs but install packages that you need and configure it yourself. Spacemacs is slow.

>>60679192
>it's useful to know them if you use linux because nano, bash and some other stuff also uses them
Nano literally has the keybindings on-screen at all times, and I usually use vim keybindings in my shell line editor. I also can't think of a situation where I'd have emacs without evil available, but no vi.

Regarding spacemacs, is it basically emacs but with preinstalled packages and preconfigured defaults? I thought it was more like a fork, but if that's all it is then you do have a point.

>>60678950
> what doesn't render well?
scrolling
> good thing those aren't hardcoded
noone want's to fight bad defaults, whole package ecosystem just goes with these keybindings and if you try to fight it, you get awkward collisions. Ofc EVIL has quality and many people solved it, so it's legit way. I don't really enjoy vim's modes...
> terminals
they can't handle curses, plus they are slow for big outputs
>1.5 mil lines
to be specific: only 340k of C, 1.1mil of elisp
> sandboxing
I would love to see editor that has good priviliege separation and tried to implement strict pledge bindings. Because Emacs try to take over everything, you are connection ssh with it, downloading files, entering passwords and encryption keys into it etc. It's not transparent what context reads it.
> TLS
does not check certificates by default, uses weak crypto. And that's just packge.el. Anything else can create connections (sandboxing and priv separation lacking)
> slow macros
yes, the execution of macros is slow. Compare it to other emacs clones (mg, zile, there are plenty of them)
> configs
use-package is pretty ok, but it still doesn't handle updating and precompilation well. Because of terrible defaults, the config file is doomed to be long and solve every detail. There are few packages that can't be probperly defered and has slow loading. It's realistic to keep it all under 6s, hard to keep it under 3s. Spacemacs ignores this requirement. It's still faster than VStudio.

>>60679323
>It's still faster than VStudio.
>It loads faster than a web browser with an editor inside it
Kekkity

>>60677720
you could use evil-mode, a functioning text editor for Emacs

>>60679161
Spacemacs is a cool idea, but it takes longer than eclipse to load and is very poorly documented. You can build your own good emacs system, and it's quite a bit of fun.
The spacemacs functionality can mostly be replicated with evil-mode and helm. The emacs wiki is pretty good imo

>>60679464
>takes longer than eclipse to load
Ok, what the fuck.

I'll give evil-mode a whirl then.

>>60679161
Spacemacs is shit. Just install evil mode with emacs.

>>60677355
Because a real IDE is better. And having to remember 10000 shortcuts to be effective with it and then fuck up your hands from entering said combinations is shit. If I have to edit a config file in a shell I'll just use vim or nano.

>>60677355
I've been using vim with lots of plugins I collected over time
I gave spacemacs a try and I've been using it more and more, especially for writing in tcl.
The transition from a fully plug-ined vim to spacemacs was almost seamless
I don't want to learn emacs from scratch as of now. I guess that as time passes I'll learn more about it through daily usage and tweaking.
It just werks anon, I have work to do, and it helps.

>>60677355
I switched to vscode as soon as they implemented a decent vim mode :^)

>>60679666
>writing in tcl
why?

is there anything like slime/cider for node.js for either emacs or vim?

>>60679692
vscode is a worthless botnetted meme editor

>>60679804
>worthless
it's rather valuable to me as it helps me get shit done

>botnetted meme editor
vscode is not a meme, unlike calling legitimate software "botnetted"

>>60679707
My trips don't lie
> why
VLSI engineering heavily relies on tcl. How about you convince the companies making the tools to use Guile as the embedded scripting language instead? I'd be thrilled.

>>60680571
It wasn't meant to be accusatory, just wondering. Not that surprising, engineers tend to be the last to adopt new technologies

emacs is indeed better than systemd

>>60679415
the ux just isn't as good as with vim in my experience, specifically when the bits of emacs behavior start poking through. plain vim doesn't have the bits of latency, etc., and i've decided to stay with it after cycling through vim, emacs, evil-mode, and spacemacs in no particular order. i will say that gnus is a nice mail client, but it just doesn't meet my preferences with text editing.

>>60679863
it's not a botnet, but i personally dislike the idea of a text editor designed to phone home to microsoft with data that's then potentially given to law enforcement. even if it's completely disabled through software settings, i don't like that kind of stuff being in my programs.

Anyone else use Atom, it's pretty comfy.

>>60680879
Aye evil-mode took a bit of getting used to for me (C-] and C-g instead of Esc bothered me at first), and I still use vim for quick editing jobs of rc scripts and whatever.

>>60680930
Takes wayyyy too long to start. Also fuck electron.

>>60677355
>not using Notepad++

>>60680917
it can be disabled. if that's not enough then you can remove every web call from the source and compile it yourself.

>>60677355
I'm tired of holding Ctrl and Alt key all the time.

>>60682662
get foot pedals faggot

>>60677355
more like eWhacks lmao

I want to like Emacs, I really do, but I can't. It's cool that you can do all sorts of stuff from your text editing environment, but it's not worth it.

Emacs is slow to start

Emacs is single threaded and gets blocked easily

Emacs requires constant hand configuration of not just your elisp but also any binaries that are installed and used with whatever mode is popular this week.

It's far too easy to spread malware using ELPA

Org-mode markup is trash from the 80s

... I could go on but I don't care enough.

>>60677822
>leuven is a dank theme

Can someone redpill me on that thing about using Emacs as an OS?

I learned that people install browsers, media players... all that stuff in it. What's the point?

>>60684272
Some people like emacs enough to want to stay in it for everything. most people just swap startx for emacs. not sure what else you want to know about it.

>>60677355
>>2017
>>not using emacs
>wtf are you doing /g/?
saving myself from repetitive strain injury from holding 3 modifier keys at once for everything

>>60682662
evil-mode, nigger.

>>60684560
what the hell? people use emacs as a window manager?

>>60677355
Because the latency of evil emacs sends me into an autistic rage and I go back to vim. Every. Single. Time.

I'd honestly prefer to use emacs, really. It's got loads of features I want and my co-workers all use it. Too bad the delay makes my brain hurt.

>>60680699
I didn't mean to imply it was accusatory. I apologize if it came through that way.
> engineers tend to be the last to adopt new technologies
Interesting. I don't know if this would apply in this case since we're just using Tcl, not embedding it in the tools. It's a good question why the software companies providing our tools do.
I got curious some time ago and read about the Tcl flame wars. There was heated debate if it's a suitable language for embedding.
It's been around since about the same time Guile;
So, which scripting language do you think would be a good solution to this problem? I guess it could be provided in parallel with Tcl.
Keep in mind that while tcl has some ugliness around it, it can be quite comfy when you get used to it, it just doesn't have a wide usage outside specific industries.

>>60677937

> comparing fugitive to magit

yeah right...

>>60679293
Not him. I use and like spacemacs.
What I like about it is the organization of configuration already thought for you. You can still customize it, but layer system is cleaner than bare emacs.

If anyone uses Emacs, just be honest with me about this, does it fuck up your hands?

>>60677355
I really want to, but evil-mode is kinda shitty.
I used it for quite some time, but I'm just too rooted in vim. I'll try it again for sure, though. org-mode alone is a pretty good reason to do so, as is e-lisp.

>>60691443
Redpill me on org-mode. What's so amazing about it?

I went back to neovim as spacemacs was giving me the shits with breaking updating all the time and taking too long to start and latency...

Still use it for org mode though, which i like as better kind of ipython notebook.

>>60677355
>2017
>Not using vi which ships on all distro esp when working on high node count servers

>>60692080
neovim > vim > vi

>>60691947

Think of vim folds, but in those folds you can put snippets of code that you can execute and get output into your document. Other markup and formatting features that you can export multiple formats html Tex pdf, embed images, plots etc, probably more shit than I even know.

It's like an advanced version of omnioutliner if you know what that is...

>>60677376
Spacemacs is literally a config for emacs.