poettering - DEBUNKED

>>60553370
Poettering is a complete retard
Cant't rememeber exactly what it was, but someone BTFO him and he just closed the issue

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>>60553405
It was him not understanding how rm -r .* worked and assuming that it'd also target . and ..

>>60553405

most of the """closed""" '''issues''' are left there with no straight answers.

poettering is a real threat.

http://lkml.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/1404.0/01331.html

And by "their" you mean Kay Sievers.

Key, I'm f*cking tired of the fact that you don't fix problems in the
code *you* write, so that the kernel then has to work around the
problems you cause.

Greg - just for your information, I will *not* be merging any code
from Kay into the kernel until this constant pattern is fixed.

This has been going on for *years*, and doesn't seem to be getting any
better. This is relevant to you because I have seen you talk about the
kdbus patches, and this is a heads-up that you need to keep them
separate from other work. Let distributions merge it as they need to
and maybe we can merge it once it has been proven to be stable by
whatever distro that was willing to play games with the developers.

But I'm not willing to merge something where the maintainer is known
to not care about bugs and regressions and then forces people in other
projects to fix their project. Because I am *not* willing to take
patches from people who don't clean up after their problems, and don't
admit that it's their problem to fix.

Kay - one more time: you caused the problem, you need to fix it. None
of this "I can do whatever I want, others have to clean up after me"
crap.

Linus

At some point we will be dealing with two userlands, and then he will dare to fork the kernel. Just wait and see.

>>60553429
Thats a perfect representation of everything he does
He works on shit he does not even fully understand and refuses to accept when he is wrong

>>60553429
To be honest both . and .. do fit the .* pattern, don't they? So it's an exception they aren't affected?

>>60555775
>and then he will dare to fork the kernel

Nah, systemd will just take over kernel stuff.

>>60555898
So, with systemd having been wedged into the foundations of most relevant distros, is Linux doomed? Of all the people working on Linux, why was his shit adopted of all things, especially that given its current scope, it's the single most critical thing right after the kernel?

>>60556122
It's not doomed. OpenRC is on the rise and works just as well as Systemd for basically everything
All it will take is one good major security issue in Systemd due to Lennarts incompetence and distros will be at a race to replace Systemdicks with OpenRC and all the others systems that Systemd has eaten over the years

>>60556564

SyndromeD had that trivial DOS last year, and earlier this year a local escalation exploit.

>>60556564
Oh yay, I can't wait to go back to editing init scripts instead of letting a system daemon handle everything.

>>60556564
>All it will take is one good major security issue in Systemd due to Lennarts incompetence and distros will be at a race to replace Systemdicks with OpenRC and all the others systems that Systemd has eaten over the years

it's nice to dream sometimes, huh cuck?

>>60556990
>>60557026
Fuck off Lennart

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>>60556990
>Implying you had to do that before Systemdicks came around
underage detected

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>>60556122
I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you're referring to as Linux, is in fact, GNU/Linux, or as I've recently taken to calling it, GNU plus Linux. Linux is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning GNU system made useful by the GNU corelibs, shell utilities and vital system components comprising a full OS as defined by POSIX.

Many computer users run a modified version of the GNU system every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of GNU which is widely used today is often called "Linux", and many of its users are not aware that it is basically the GNU system, developed by the GNU Project.

There really is a Linux, and these people are using it, but it is just a part of the system they use. Linux is the kernel: the program in the system that allocates the machine's resources to the other programs that you run. The kernel is an essential part of an operating system, but useless by itself; it can only function in the context of a complete operating system. Linux is normally used in combination with the GNU operating system: the whole system is basically GNU with Linux added, or GNU/Linux. All the so-called "Linux" distributions are really distributions of GNU/Linux.

>>60557248
dumb interjection pasta poster

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>the kernel should just stop doing this...

>>60557026
Already happened with Windows. Are you trying to say that systemd is any different?

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here you go, another meme to add to the "pottering_how_does_it_work" folder

>>60557785
Any chance you could zip and volafile that folder?

Why is that piece of shit allowed anywhere near projects surrounding Linux?

>>60557815
He should just dump it here

What are some good, easy to use distros that don't use systemd?

>>60557958
The only people autistical enough to care about systemd are only interested in timesink autist distros

>>60557730
>Already happened with Windows.
Windows replaced svchost.exe with OpenRC?

>>60557958
PCLinuxOS is probably the most prominent non autist distro without systemd

>>60553429
"Locked and limited to collaborators" is a busy person's shorthand for "you've made your point, now someone needs to write a patch".

>>60557958
PCLinuxOS is the most popular, and also the most friendly one. Others you may want to try are Devuan, Slackware, Gentoo, or Void. Then there's also some smaller ones like AntiX or Puppy. And of course the *BSDs (not stricly Linux, but Unix-like also).

>>60557958
you can substitute it in almost every distro

>>60558060
>PCLinuxOS
That's the most retarded thing I've ever read.

>>60558186
What the fuck do you mean?

>>60553370
>ITT retards who don't understand shit can't see why Poettering is right

>>60558450
This

>>60558450
>why Poettering is right
Hi Lennart

>>60558356
He's right, is an awful name.

MKULTRA was performed on children? I never realised.

That's even more fucked up than I previously though.

>>60553429
To be honest this is quite a corner case.

Could someone explain the bug?

>Creating a bond device just because the module is loaded is almost always a bad idea
Isn't he right?

>>60557958
Void

>>60557958
it's fairly easy with arch but you'll have to live without gnome kde and maybe wayland at least for the moment

>>60559342

I thought wayland without systemd was pretty easy to do

Did it change?

>>60559342
>without gnome
>without kde
>without wayland
So nothing of value is lost

>>60559342
>kde and gnome available on bsd
>wayland is available for testing on dragonlybsd
pls don't spread bullshit

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>*nix luddites are screeching again
Literally, who cares.

>>60559350
wayland with what desu
maybe weston or enlightenment would work but you'd probably have to use abs
sway from repo doesn't work and building localy fails (dont remember the error)

>>60559389
> with arch

>>60557958
>Easy to use that don't use systemd
Manjaro OpenRC or Sabayon or Puppy. The first two are really nice and have no more a learning curve than any of the other baby distros.

>>60556019
Yes. It's all well documented, too.

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>>60557785

>>60559505
People whose systems are being fucked up because of dumb bugs in systemd that Lennart refuses to fix.

>>60557785
Of course he has a not-our-bug tag

>>60559505
>he thinks systemd is an init system

>>60553429
This was fucking retarded. First, the issue gets fixed. Then Poettering starts whining about how this is an UNIX issue (when it isn't), people point out that it isn't an UNIX issue and he just locks the issue.

>>60558734
It's a corner case that FUCKING SHREDS YOUR FILESYSTEM.

>>60557785
why is he wrong though

>>60556122

It would be funny if somebody forks systemd and converts it into a library that the other init systems can use.

>>60556122
>why was his shit adopted of all things
probably because it was convenient for them.

I'm still amazed at how much you whine about it without really thinking through that such massive quick adoption can only mean that it offered a huge advantage to developers.

>>60558520
Why? Because it's not random bullshit like the overwhelming majority of Linux distro names? Its actually one of the (if not THE) most sensible ones: "Personal Computer Linux Operating System", what is wrong with that? Is it innacurate, misrepresenting what it is? No, quite to the contrary.

>>60560164
Exceptions like this affects performance. Learn from C

>>60561433
calm down nerd lol

>>60561403
Because it says in the fucking standard to ignore '.' and '..' ...

Best thing is POSIX offers standard compliant C functions for path name matching [aka glob(3)] but Mr. NIH had to write his own crap.

>>60561430
You clearly have little to no knowledge about the circumstances under it was "adopted". It was being pushed very hard by groups of extremely vocal shills. Given that all of the Red Hat ecosystem would obviously adopt it anyway, what they needed was only Debian, Arch, and OpenSUSE to adopt it, and the rest was just a domino effect as the majority of other relevant distros are descentants of Fedora or the other three. It was all political and the little merit that was there was centered around gimmickry like "muh faster boot times" and such, completely downplaying all the glaring issues and hiding them behind a smokescreen until the decisions were made and the doors were shut (even then, the "battle for Debian" was won by the systemd pushers only minimally, causing huge shitstorms and resulting in the departure of a large number of long-time Debian contributors).

>>60561449
>Exceptions like this affects performance.
So does keeping track of permissions instead of running everything in ring 0, but it's there for a very good reason.

Is this dude right?

>Linux systems Administrators Can't Avoid systemd!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULTTg-dX7Qc

>>60560164
What are . and .. really anyway? Are they just hardlinks to the current and parent directory, respectively? Or something else?

>>60561449
Is your file system destroying not fast enough?

>>60561433
>>60558520
>>60558356
>>60558186
>>60558060
who the fuck would name something PCLinuxOS
I've never heard of it so it must be dumb and I'm not going to bother looking it up you stupid nigger cattle

>>60561545

well he has a point, in enterprise environment you will probably have to deal with systemd and you wont have much choice because they would find someone else to employ easily

>>60557958
Salix OS, gobolinux

>>60561784
>"I've never heard of it so it must be dumb"
>calls others "stupid nigger cattle"

Kek
It's one of the major distros you nigger

https://distrowatch.com/dwres.php?resource=major
>It lists 10 Linux distributions (plus an honourable mention of FreeBSD, by far the most popular of all of the BSDs), which are generally considered as most widely-used by Linux users around the world.

Way to make an idiot of yourself

>>60561503
glob .* does match . and ..
It's rm that ignores . and ..

>>60557958
slack?

>>60561845
no it's not dumb fucking shitstain
nobody fucking uses it
people just look it up often because retards like you namedrop it and nobody else has fucking heard of it

>>60558450
/thread
UNIX and POSIX userland were a mistake

>>60557248
God I hate this pasta. GNU has nothing to do with Linux at all. You can use Linux without a single GNU package being installed

>>60561513
>what they needed was only Debian, Arch, and OpenSUSE to adopt it, and the rest was just a domino effect as the majority of other relevant distros
not that guy, but the thought alone that Plebian, Arch or OpenSuse are taken serious by other people and bistro maintainers instead of being perceived as the incompetent fucks maintainers usually are haunts me big time.

>>60561784
>not calling it MouseAndKeyboardScreenPCLinuxOSDesktop

>>60558047
It's more like "I don't want hundreds of people shitposting on my issue tracker"

Before that feature was a thing people used to get into epic arguments regarding important issues like some maintainer's latest offensive tweet. I got quite a few episodes bookmarked they're fucking hilarious.

If I was the owner of the repo that'd be the standard response to any entitled person's issues. If they want to bitch they should make a damn blog.

>>60561842
Wow, gobolinux isn't dead yet?

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>>60562226
Hahaha, right. Stay mad, stupid faggot.

>>60561413
You know what's even funnier? The fact none of you will ever do anything even remotely constructive.

Talk is cheap. If you can't walk the walk then STFU. If you can't put in the work then nobody really cares about your opinions.

>>60562432
>I got quite a few episodes bookmarked they're fucking hilarious.
link them then

ITT
*autistic screeching*

>>60562481
https://github.com/nikolas/github-drama

>>60561845
>It's one of the major distros you nigger

Not it isn't. Distrowatch doesn't mean shit.

>>60562473
At least he's not doing something destructive like Lennart.

>>60562511
Last time I checked the legacy init systems still exist. Why don't you make your own distro without the stuff you don't like?

Oh right. Too much work. Don't know how to do it.

>>60562511
>https://github.com/nikolas/github-drama
Destruction and creation are the same thing after all...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bg5KT3M_FJk

>>60562540
But my distro already doesn't use systemd.
Why would I make a new unnecessary one?

That's like creating an init system even though plenty of decent init systems already exist.

>>60562507
>http://www.pcworld.com/article/204767/a_guide_to_todays_top_10_linux_distributions.html
>5. PCLinuxOS

>inb4 "pcworld doesn't mean shit"

Haha faggot

can somebody list pros and cons of systemd, without childish meme biases

>>60562490
That's literally every systemd thread and I'm getting worried for the noobs coming over to Linux with the idea that they should try to use a systemd-less distro. They'll soon realize they got memed hard.

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>unironically using systemd

>>60562636
The article mentions Distrowatch multiple times which again says nothing about a distribution's real world usage. Also the article is from 7 years ago, couldn't find anything more recent? Oh that's right you didn't even read the article, you just googled something real quick to try to prove a point.

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Have (you) ever been negatively affected by something that systemd did?
No?
Thought so.

>>60562744
Yes.
It really fucked up the boot times on my ARM board.
I also had to change tons of shit on my service management web interface to use that systemctl garbage.

>>60553370
does somebody use Arch with runit and systemd uninstalled? Looking for instructions on how to do this.

>>60562744
rendering 10 years of Ubuntu documentation useless without supplying adequate replacement

>>60562444
>""""""""independent""""""
>popularity based on page visits per day to find out what the fuck it is
>only 88 people have actually written something about it since 2003
thank you for proving my point

>>60562767
>>60562814
wow it's fucking nothing.jpg

>>60562840
No bro, Zorin OS (1042 HPD) is totally as popular as Fedora (1051 HPD) and antiX (411 HPD) is more popular than Xubuntu (322 HPD), for sure.

>>60562814
Wat. Ubuntu was going for upsteart shit anyhow, and they always could have used OpenRC or whatever else apart from systemd if they wanted.

Ubuntu's maintainers are trying to make software, but it's usually not the case that they're systematic and skilful enough about it to achieve something good.

>>60562743
Truth of the matter is that PCLinuxOS is one of the most popular non-systemd distros, and probably easiest to recommend to someone who looks for a systemd-less general purpose desktop distro without a steep learning curve and with a good repo featuring codecs and lots of drivers out of the box (unsurprisingly, the first two people who made a specific recommendation to this guy >>60557958 recommended it).

>>60562811
I thought runit has documentation?

Pretty sure you can treat this as you installing runit as anyone would do it.

>>60562743
>>60562840
>>60562946

Then, dismissing Distrowatch as a reasonable metric of distro popularity, what do you believe is a reasonable metric then? Just a random user's own impression gathered from visiting random pages on the internet over a period of time? Or what exactly? If you question one possible source, at least try to provide some alternative.

>>60563022

>Then, dismissing Distrowatch as a reasonable metric of distro popularity, what do you believe is a reasonable metric then?

Average daily number of active developers divided by time in hours between a new zero-day exploit being discovered and a patch being available in the repo.

>>60563066
And were would such statistics be available in a format that allows for an easy comparison?

>>60562974
I never disputed that, I never even mentioned systemd but saying it's one of the major distros because it's ranked highly on distrowatch is bullshit.

>>60563022
We don't have a perfect metric and even if nothing better existed it wouldn't make Distrowatch good. The only even decent metric is Steam's hardware survey http://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey?platform=linux but it's obviously still very flawed.

>>60562744
hardlocking my desktop by restarting a crashed (caused by a driver issue) X every 100ms. a sane init would be slowing down or giving up after a certain amount of attempts. even SSHing into that machine didn't work. only option was rebooting to a non-X target.

>>60562974
it isn't popular.
>>60563022
yes, random user's perspective is much better than distrowatch.
>>60563115
we basically have the equivalent of steam hardware survey right here on /g/, they're called screenfetch threads.

>>60563214
>using linux on the desktop
no one is going to take you serious if you are stupid enough to run linux on a desktop

>>60563224
No, they're called thinly veiled desktop threads.

>>60558676
Wasn't that like at least half the point

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>>60553370
Use PCLinuxOS fags. No systemd there.

>>60563224
>it isn't popular.
You just keep repeating that without any backup of your contrarian claims. It arguably is one of the most popular distros listed here http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page#GNU.2FLinux_distributions and the fact that two people recommended it immediately to >>60557958 seems to kinda hint at that.

>>60563358
and yet you never see it in screenfetch threads, which means nobody actually uses it.
sure, if you go to the fsf website trisquel and gnewsense are the most popular distros, but don't tell my you believe anybody fucking uses that shit

>>60563004
I meant the part where you actually uninstall the systemd package and still have your OS working with the dependencies on it

>>60563358
the only popular distros without systemd are void and gentoo

>>60563391
You install and use runit, then you uninstall systemd and fix whatever exploded -if necessary by recompiling it from sauce.

>>60563460
and then you fucking kill yourself
actually that won't be necessary, because you'll be dead anyway once you fixed your systemd that way

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>>60563224

>>60563382
Because only arch babbies visit screenfetch threads. PCLinuxOS users don't care about that shit, they just want a functional desktop OS.

>>60563358
>>60563445
/g/ screenfetch threads are in no way representative. /g/ has an obvious over-representaton of Arch-based distros and more obscure shit like Void, while it has an under-representation of Slackware or PCLinuxOS users. Gentoo has been a huge meme for almost a decade so it's hard to tell how many unironically use it as opposed to install it for the feat alone.

>>60563557
Was meant to quote >>60563382 instead of >>60563358.

>>60563513
in other words they don't give a shit about GNU/Linux and are baby duck winbabbies
gotcha
If I ever meet one of the 8 pclinuxos users out there I'll be sure to tell them to go fuck themselves

>>60563587
>Windows
>functional

>>60562811
Use a real distro.

>>60563587
>all Linux users are on /g/ (and specifically are shitposting in screenfetch threads) and aren't Linux users otherwise

Ok, then believe whatever you want to. Nobody ain't gonna waste more time pointlessly trying to change your mind.

>>60563557
because slackware isn't used either
are you retarded anon?
it isn't some population maymay at work here, /g/ has a lot of arch users because arch is popular.
There aren't many big distros out there:
Ubuntu
Mint
Debian
Fedora
CentOS
Arch
Gentoo

void is gaining popularity but isn't quite there yet. it will probably overtake arch eventually.

>>60563508
wow exactly 1 wanker said so 1 month ago, this must be the word of allah

>>60563643
shoo shoo, Lennart

>>60563664
>Implying I am supporting sytardD
Get off of arch and use slackware or some shit, arch is garbage.

>>60563677
>Slackware
don't have time for that, sorry

>>60563657
that's not what I'm saying, I'm saying /g/ is a subset of linux users that is representative of them as a whole.

>>60563382
>>60563587
>>60563659
People actual think screenfetch threads are representative of users.

>>60563693
>Don't have time for Slackware
>I'll just reinstall arch everyweek because it broke again
keep being a dummy anon

>>60563721
>implying it broke
have fun with slackware

>>60563659
> /g/ has a lot of arch users because arch is popular
...with arch users.

>void is gaining popularity but isn't quite there yet. it will probably overtake arch eventually.

So far it still hasn't even reached top 100 on distrowatch, meaning hardly anyone looks it up.

>slackware isn't used either
No comment on that one.

>wow exactly 1 wanker said so 1 month ago
>everyone I don't agree with must be a wanker

>this must be the word of allah
not technology, go discuss mudslime stuff elsewhere

>>60563693
>>60563732
I am just amazed people think Slackware takes more maintenance work than Arch. This thread is ass-backwards.

>>60553370
I hate poettering, but I don't see what's wrong with this.

>>60563721
>People actual think screenfetch threads are representative of users.

They are representative of screenfetch thread frequenters. According to that, literally nobody uses the commercial versions of Red Hat or SUSE either, because those who do administer them have better things to do that sit around with babbies in screnfetch threads on /g/.

>>60563769
Arch doesn't take any if you're not a brainlet

>>60563739
>...with arch users.
that's not how popularity works. if it's "popular with arch users", why are there so many "arch users" here to show it's popularity? Because arch users are common, because arch is popular.

>So far it still hasn't even reached top 100 on distrowatch, meaning hardly anyone looks it up.
Again with distrowatch... I thought we went over this?

>No comment on that one.
Good, it doesn't seem like you're very well informed anyway.

>not technology, go discuss mudslime stuff elsewhere
Good job missing the point shitstain

>>60563782
in other words, RHEL and SUSE aren't popular with regular GNU/Linux users.
They may be popular with enterprise users, but we aren't discussing them ITT

>>60563782
I wasn't clear with that post, but I meant to say that in disbelief. In other words, I agree with you.

>>60563732
>have fun with slackware

But I am, Anon. :^)

>>60563807
that's good to hear. Status report on the piss bottles?

>>60563769
>what is dependency management
Slackware in a nutshell.

>>60558356
the name just screams asbergers

>>60563827
Why do I need dependency management? Unlike arch, which the devs put the bare minimum amount of work into, Volkerding makes sure a large amount of common libraries are installed and working. Only a few deps ever need to be installed for a few packages.
If you really want dependency management though, there are plenty of well supported slackware package management tools that do that.

>>60563858
>Why do I need basic package management features
It takes third party tools to get dependency resolution. Hilarious. Regardless, the lack of said feature puts more maintenance on the user.

>>60563876
Not when it means the distro never breaks.
Meanwhile in arch-land
>To install a new software I gotta upgrade ENTIRE SYSTEM
>OH BOY THIS SOUNDS LIKE A GOOD IDEA
I just don't understand this appeal

>>60563858
>large amount of common libraries are installed and working
in other words bloat

>>60563802
All "regular GNU/Linux users" are siiting around in screenfetch threads all days? Or is it primarly the Arch afficionados? Because arguably it's the latter. While I agree that Distrowatch is not a perfect popularity metric by any means, it still should be a way better one than goddamn screenfetch threads. You would be surprised to learn how many Linux users don't come to 4chan at all (hence they're not on /g/, hence they're not in screenfetch threads), while most Linux users do frequent Distrowatch every now and then and browse its distro database for information. People who believe otherwise are hopeless cases of special snowflake syndrom combined with a total lack of recognition thereof.

>>60563901
if the software depends on a new version of software, what do you expect them to do?

>>60563901
That's simply not true. Enjoy manually installing dependencies.

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>>60563903
>Thinks libraries being installed is bloat

>>60563926
in what way is a single bit that I don't require on my hdd/ssd not bloat?

>>60563926
>install random libraries because you aren't sure which ones are required for the software
>not bloat

>>60563913
people who go to distrowatch are people who DON'T use linux and want to look something up. If you use Debian, you don't have to look up how popular it is on distrowatch to get "information" about it.

>>60563955
>having to resolve a shitton of dependencies each time when installing something because having had done it in advance would be "muh bloat"
>not a huge waste of time and effort

>>60563968
>people who go to distrowatch are people who DON'T use linux

Obviously wrong, but whatever.

>>60564001
>dependency checks aren't automatic and less than a second
Come on not all Slackware users are as dumb as you.

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>>60563955
>>60563951
>I can't spare to waste 100mb of muh disk!

>>60564022
>install software
>No automatic dependency check
>have to manually read documentation and install dependencies one by one
>not a huge waste of time

>>60562432
this
the issue was swarmed by expert programmers from /g/ after it has been linked here

>>60564070
>expert programmers from /g/
kek

How did an anti-Poettercuck thread devolve into an Arch/Void vs Slackware/PCLinuxOS shitslinging contest (although one has to admit the second group seems to be the more civilized one in general)?

>>60564131
Poettering isn't worth the time.

>>60563926
They're just autists who can't handle having a few MBs of software getting installed without their say in it.
They rather spend time unnecessarily installing everything manually hence the need for automated dependency resolution.

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I'm not going to create a new thread for a simple question, and I think this is the right one to ask it in.
So, why does pulseaudo take so long to start? Can I speed it up somehow?

>>60564275
Because it's made by Lennart Poettering

>>60561607
Every directory in Unix is a special file that contains names and identifiers (inodes) of the files it contains. Every directory is created with two special entries "." (which points to the inode of the directory itself) and ".." (which points to the inode of the parent directory, or itself in the root directory).
While using .* inside the shell also expands to "." and "..", the rm command is expected by the POSIX standard to ignore them so it doesn't recursively remove the entire file system tree. systemd however, did.

>>60564306
I understand, but how do I fix it?

>>60564320
remove it

>>60564325
I'd like to, but I like my porn with sound.

>>60564320
>>60564363
Use ALSA

>>60555775
They actually dared to fork it last year, Just In Case™.
https://github.com/systemd/linux

>>60564363
You'll want apulse for applications like Firefox with a hard dependency on Pulseaudio, then.

>>60564363
PulseAudio is just a virus that sits between ALSA and your playback software. It's completely optional.

Alternatively you can also use OSS instead of ALSA.

>>60564418
>like Firefox
firefox on my system isn't linked against PulseAudio

They should just fork systemd; it's not inherently terrible, they just need to narrow the focus and stop making it devour larger and larger portions of the OS and take it out of poettering's cheeto covered hands.

>>60564474
Red Hat won't have that though.

>one systemd to rule them all, and in the darkness bind them

>>60564571
So we just need two manlets to smuggle systemd on Red Hat's central servers to get them to crash and bring it all down?

>>60564474
systemd was built to be irreplaceable

>>60553429
Proof systemd users are utter retards

>>60557958
duvaun

>>60558734
Systemd cuck

>>60562744
90 second shutdown sequence.

>>60558734
But it's not.
"/*" won't match hidden files.
And lots of hidden files get created in /tmp.

>>60565250
this.
also nfs unmount NEVER

>>60563508
Fucking memers like you always forget the fact that the most popular distro, without systemd is PCLinuxOS. Gentoo can have systemd anyway...

>>60565333
I can install systemd on PCLinuxOS too with enough effort.
The default init system is what counts.

>>60565250
Wait, systemd is the reason I sometimes have to wait a minute and a half for my system to shutdown?

>>60565519
yes

>>60565519
>Wait, systemd is the reason _____ ?

Yes.

>>60553370
This is pretty typical Poettering behaviour sadly.
This is proof that there is some ulterior motive going on in the Linux world in regards to systemd, no one that lazy should have this much power

>>60565817
Wait, systemd is the reason of American hegemony?

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>>60556122
I'd just like to interject for one bit. What you're alluding to as Linux, is really, GNU/Linux, or as I've lately taken to calling it, GNU and Linux. Linux isn't an operating setup unto itself, but really another free piece of a fully working GNU setup fashioned into something practical by the GNU core libraries, shell facilities and required setup components completing a full OS as described by POSIX.

Quite a few computer holders operate a flavor of the GNU setup every single day, but do not know of. By a strange series of events, the edition of GNU used currently is often called "Linux", and its holders do not know that it is practically the GNU setup, created by the GNU Project.

There is in fact a Linux, and they are indeed using it, but it is but a part of the setup they use. Linux is a kernel: the program in the setup that distributes the machine's resources to the other programs that you run. The kernel is an essential part of an operating setup, but cannot work on its own; it will work only in the shadow of a fully developed operating setup. Linux is normally used with the GNU operating setup: the whole setup is practically GNU with Linux added on, or GNU/Linux. Every one of the "Linux" distributions are really distributions of GNU/Linux.

>>60565897
Because refusing to implement workaround of others bugs or stupidities is laziness?

>>60565954
dumb stale pasta poster

>>60565917
Yes.

>>60564691
Poettering openly admitted that the goal is to build a whole operating system around systemd. I think that this operating system is being built and has been for years - not from the grounds up, but rather in a parasitical manner, by latching the systemd larva onto an existing ecosystem and then consuming and replacing it part by part, like with the Ship of Theseus. At some point Red Hat will say "hurr, apparently systemdOS is what Linux evolved into, tough luck, deal with it".

>>60566188
(((citation needed)))

>>60566802
And it's gonna be a poorly documented mess so Red Hat gets more people to buy their support and training services.

>>60566855
Like clockwork.

>>60566855

probably gonna have some NSA backdoors as well

>>60566841
About . and .. he is right.

based lennart

>>60566895
>". and .. are problematic"
>". and .. were a mistake"
>". and .. considered harmful"
>". and .. are a broken concept"
>t. Lennart Poettering

>>60567037
Yes. They're a fucking mistakes.

>>60567060
Doesn't matter, because POSIX rm fixed the fucking problem. I called him lazy for that because he didn't even know that rm didn't remove . or ..
It's literally an almost zero cost to fix that issue.

>>60566881
>NSA/systemD will be the operating system of the future

>>60567114
. and .. are not children of a dir. That's a fucking nonsense. It's an issue in POSIX design. He doesn't have to implement a workaround.

>>60567154
And then someone gets their / destroyed, because Lennart couldn't be bothered to write 4 lines of code to prevent the removal of . and ..

>>60567254
No. Because people don't want to fix POSIX.

>>60567290
People who want POSIX fixed work on plan9.
Pajeets that want Windows for 0$ work on systemd.

>>60567349
By the way systemd rules because it fix a lot of nonsense of old Linux.

>>60567380
SysV isn't some nonsense of old Linux.
The oldest still active distro never went for the SysV init script nonsense..

>>60567428
Why does systemd speed up booyby 10?

>>60567481
Because it slows down shutdown by 30.

>>60567481
>booyby
boot by

>>60567505
That's a fucking lie.

>>60567507
>>60567481
>>60567380
This is a red hat promotional poster, don't respond, he's clearly shilling.

>>60567528
90 second shutdown sequence is lie?

>>60567528
t. never used a distro with systemd

>>60567481
It doesn't. It's slower than parallelized init scripts.

I guess if you start dozens of dbus services at boot then it might have an advantage but why would you do that?

>>60567349
Foreigners with brown skin that wants things for nothing will not work at all. I'm amazed by the effort they put into avoiding work and avoiding to pay for services. They can spend hours going back and forth arguing with the employees in a store just to avoid paying.

Stingy brown people that refuse to pay for services should be sent away.

>>60567566
Your post is so inane, it's breathtaking.

>>60567548
He is a lucky one tee bee aitch

>>60567148
You'll have the choice between MS Botnet10, Apple mac-iOS, Google FucksYa, and Red Hat systemdOS, all of them implementing extensive telemetry as well as remote provisioning (such as forced updates for everyone) completely out of band via Intel ME mechanisms.

>>60562744
systemd-journald crashes all the fucking time on Ubuntu Mate 17.04 that's pretty much stock
Can't wait to migrate to Devuan

>>60567060
But DOS/Windows has them too. The are filesystem (pseudo)objects and exist virtually in any filesystem, no matter if FAT??, NTFS, or ext*.

>>60559505
remember when systemd was just a init system. Good times.

>>60567917
Devuan 1.0.0 final when?

>>60567991
At that time it was the freshly-hatched larva that >>60566802 was mentioning. Since then it has been eating and growing.

>>60566802
(((citation needed)))

>>60568194
He made a blog type of post a few years back either on freedesktop.org or on 0pointer.net (think it was the latter) where he declared that an OS is the goal. Can't find it right now, but it's there somewhere (there were /g/ threads about it too back then iirc).

>>60568194
http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/the-biggest-myths.html
>It's not just an init system anymore, but the basic userspace building block to build an OS from
>building a simple OS based on systemd will involve much fewer packages than a traditional Linux did

>>60568611
>>60568489
He's not talking about building his own OS, retards, he's talking about having a foundation on which others can build an OS around.

https://access.redhat.com/videos/403833

I'm watching this and so far everything systemd does seems really good.

>>60569156
Wow systemd looks good in a systemd advertisement?

>>60569248
Yes

>>60569248

well at least they got something right, it would be rather pathetic if they fucked up praising systemd on the redhat.com video

>>60569301
>xyz appears to look good in a xyz advertisement

What a surprise

>>60569465
>>60569248
Pls don't read my sentence completely literally. My point is that you guys shit on systemd but if you actually see what it does, it's really good.

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>>60569736
They might present some features that sound neat but it says little about the quality.

>>60569736
>but if you actually see what it does, it's really good.
I see.
90 seconds shutdown sequences are really good!

>>60569801
>1 issue
>the whole thing is trash
I'm sure that issue is fixable too.

>>60569800
The fact that it's so widely used and has so many contributors makes me feel like it's at least decent in quality. I mean, if it was shitty it wouldn't be so widely used.

>>60569933
No matter how shitty the software if Red Hat pushes it, it gets adopted.

Look at stuff like hal and ConsoleKit.
Even the creators now admit that it's shit.

>>60569933
Since a decade or so technology has been heavily shifting from meritocracy to idiocracy. Markets have been cemented, consumers have been dumbed down, pajeets and other """oppressed minorities""" were pushed into tech, and decisions have become overwhelmingly political rather than technical in nature. Shit gets adopted if the shilling for it is effective enough, shit itself needn't be (and mostly isn't) good at all.

>>60569933
>I mean, if it was shitty it wouldn't be so widely used.
Kek. You mean to say that chiclet keyboards in all laptops is because they are so "good"?

>>60570355
That got shit to do with identity politics, it's just good ole corporate greed.

>>60570414
github literally had a rug that had meritocracy on it and it was removed because of identity politics

>>60570473
The fuck has github to do with importing pajeets?

>>60570414
>identity politics
>affirmative action
>virtue signalling

Can we still get off this shit ride somehow, or is it a lost cause?

>>60562744
I once unplugged a pendrive without unmounting first and it freezed my entire Debian system.

Windows shit right there.

>>60565157
systemd users dont know who the fuck poettering is dipshit

>>60570709
Except you could expect shit like that in Windows 9x maybe (where problems reading off a CD often put you in a bluescreen loop requiring a reboot), but not so much in NT-based systems.

>>60570803
>where problems reading off a CD often put you in a bluescreen loop requiring a reboot
Pretty sure you could get out of those without needing a reboot.

>>60571159
Sometimes you could, other times you couldn't because it would stall everything else. Remember 9x was DOS-based under the hood.

Goodbye Poettercuck thread. Godspeed GNU/Linux. killall -9 systemd

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>>60564275
heeeelp

>>60571665
this can't be real

>>60571688
It was awhile ago,but it loaded in fine,i dont know what the fuck the kernel was doing but i randomly checked it and this was the result.It didnt take an hour to boot but it was running in the background i guess?

>>60563787
https://wiki.installgentoo.com
Someone needs to clean this up.

>>60566855
p o t t e r y

The Apple Macbook Pro with Retina Display doesn't have this problem.

>>60572737
It does when you install systemd/Linux on it