/pcbg/ - PC Building General

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>>60551366
CPUs:
>DX11 and older API games and Console Emulators rely on higher core frequency for better performance
>DX12, Vulkan, and OpenGL APIs tend to rely on thread count, but also higher core frequency (core scaling ends at around 8 threads)
>Encoding or Rendering favors a mix between core frequency and thread count, so an [email protected] can match an R5 [email protected]
>Livestreaming needs both higher core frequencies and thread count: streaming DX11 or older games need at least 4 available threads (1-2 threads for game, 2-3 for encoding), streaming DX12 games need at least eight (4-6 threads for game, 2-4 for encoding); this is why the i7-7700K is unbeatable as a quality livestreaming CPU
>24/7 Network appliances (NAS, seedbox, router, etc) do not need high core frequency, just more threads; Intel Atoms and embedded Celeron/Pentiums are ideal for this due to their 4 thread count at sub-15W TDP
>AMD used to excel at AES encryption throughput, but not anymore: consider an Intel Goldmont SoC for DIY VPN router or encrypted NAS
Rule of Thumb:
Embedded Quad-Cores/Dual Cores (no HT) - Facebook/Shitposting/Chinese-Cartoon-Watching Machine
Dual Cores (HT) - 1080p eSports Gaming Machine, light programming work
Quad-core (no HT) - 1080p AAA Gaming Machine, 1080p Livestream (minimum), moderate workload
Quad-core (HT) - 1440p/4K Gaming, 1080p Livestreaming (eSport, some AAA), heavy workload
6-core - 1440p/4K Gaming, 1080p Livestreaming (AAA)
8 or more-core - Live video encoding to HEVC/VP9

tl:dr - Buy Intel if you're primarily gaming and occasionally working, buy Ryzen if you use obscure, uncommon apps that doesn't use CUDA acceleration for work and game occasionally

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>>60551407
Intel CPUs:
Under $100 - Pair with $40-$60 H110/B250 mATX motherboards*
>Pentium G4560 - unless G4600/G4620 goes under $75
Under $180 - Pair with $40-80 H110/B250 motherboards ($100 Z270 mATX for the 7350K)
>Core i3-7100 - has AVX/2, 16-bit FPC (or F16C), and FMA3 compared to the Pentiums, but only 3MB of L3 cache
>Core i3-7300 - if you need more L3 cache (unless the 7320 is under $170)
>Core i3-7350K - look no further for a performance budget gaming build for games running older APIs or emulation
Under $300 - Pair with $60-100 B250/H270 motherboards (At least $160 Z270 ATX for the 7600K)
>Core i5-7500 - only get the 7600 if you can get one at a 10% discount
>Core i5-7600K - best value gaming CPU
Above $300 - Pair with $170+ Z270 ATX motherboard or 2011-v3 socket X99 system
>Core i7-7700K - the ideal livestreaming and 4K gaming CPU, best performing gaming CPU of all time
>Core i7-6800K - better for multitasking and livestreaming with more expansion options for less than the 6850K
>Core i7-6900K - for when you need 8 real cores for multitasking and encoding
>Core i7-6950X - 10 cores that can't be beat, but at a very high pricetag
* - All Celeron and Pentiums can use ECC RAM and run on C232/C236 motherboards
Xeon E3 CPUs: Can use Unbuffered ECC RAM, but needs more expensive C232/C236 chipsets
>Xeon E3-12X0 v6 - no iGPU
>Xeon E3-12X5 v6 - HD P630 iGPU
>Xeon E3-1220/1225 v6 - non-HT Xeons (equivalent to Core i5s)
>Xeon E3-1240 v6 - best value Xeon: Core i7-7700 at $270
Xeon E5 CPUs: Can use Unbuffered and Registered ECC RAM, comes in two major varieties for UP and DP platforms
>Xeon E5-16XX v4 - UP/single-socket
>Xeon E5-26XX v4 - DP/dual-socket
>Xeon E5-2630 v4 - best value Xeon: 10 cores/20 threads for i7-6850K money

>>60551407
Ryzen CPUs:
Under $200 - Pair with A320 or B350 motherboards
>Ryzen 5 1500X - mediocre at everything, more L3 cache than an i7, but only as powerful as an i5 (you get what you pay for)
Under $250 - Pair with B350 motherboards
>Ryzen 5 1600 - decent six core, but not much going for it otherwise; Core i5s are a better choice for gaming
Over $300 - Pair with B350 or X370 motherboards
>Ryzen 7 1700 - the hidden gem of the Ryzen series, consider this over the Core i5 for anything other than gaming; only get the 1700X if it's on sale, but it's offset by the need to buy a $30+ cooler separately
>Even then, strongly consider X99 Intels for better connectivity options and more memory buswidth

What cooler should I get for a 1600X?

>>60551446
>>Core i5-7600K - best value gaming CPU
Should precise that it's the best value for INTEL, because the R5 1600 beats it at gaming value (or not even gaming specifically)

>>60551474
>Core i5s are a better choice for gaming
Oh wow, where have you been this past month?
i5s are utter complete shit, the R5 1600 shits on it because of CPU usage

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBKHsMar1Jo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6Ovmxfejvo
https://youtu.be/JypkqwpOtNI?t=8m

The r5 1500x also is moderately better because of the extra 4 threads
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MjgLMASZJlg

Do they make SATA cables that aren't so thick and more easily bent/routed in a case?

>>60551407
>tl:dr - Buy Intel if you're primarily gaming and occasionally working, buy Ryzen if you use obscure, uncommon apps that doesn't use CUDA acceleration for work and game occasionally
What? What does CUDA has to do with CPUs?
Why is the R5 1600 not considered a better choice over any i5 when it is and when every reviewer says so?

You're not that guy that tried to force his logicalincrement & pcpartpicker saved links are you?
You won't mind if this OP gets edited a lot throughout the following threads, do you?

Can anyone give me a quick rundown on HDDs? Are Seagate still much worse than WD when it comes to reliability?

>>60552057
Yes, Silverstone and Startech.com make SATA round cables, which are about as thick as USB3.0 header cables
https://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-6-Inch-Latching-Round-LSATARND6/dp/B006K2617I
I think Silverstone's are thinner.

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>>60551474
>>60551446
>>60551407
>>60551366

>>60552021
Why are you getting a 1600X? It's generally not worth it over the 1600.
>>60552087
Seagate, WD, Toshiba, and HGST all make equally reliable drives. Just buy the one you're most comfortable with and make sure their warranty plan isn't shit like Toshiba's.

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>>60551446
>>Core i7-7700K - the ideal livestreaming CPU and 4K gaming CPU
the more i read this OP the more i wanna ditch it already
so much effort put in there yet so much lies in there too
could be so good but isn't

Looking for a good 34" 1440p 21:9 curved monitor, max 17.5lbs without a stand, must support VESA mounting, minimal bleed, preferably >60Hz and under $1,000. What do you guys recommend?

>>60552083
>Why is the R5 1600 not considered a better choice over any i5 when it is and when every reviewer says so?
That's news to me. The i5-7600 is generally better than the 1600 in almost every respect apart from obscure or specialty software. Compared to the i5-7400 and you'll have a point, but you're comparing to the entire i5 range, which that statement is grossly inaccurate and deliberately misleading.

Is this a good basic/mid-range modern graphics card? https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01IPVSGEC

>>60552114
That doesn't look like it would routed any easier. The silverstone look dubious, what gauge are they using? Also, that price is insulting.

Why are all monitor risers so fucking huge? My monitor's base is like 6"x9". Why do I need a 21"x11" riser? Whose idea was this?

>>60552148
Is Seagate's Skyhawk disks any good value?

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>>60552188
>The i5-7600 is generally better than the 1600 in almost every respect apart from obscure or specialty software.
wrong.

>>60552188
I presume you're new to /pcbg/ or haven't been here in a long time? Because it's told again and again every single thread. Please watch the videos posted in >>60552041
There is nothing inaccurate or misleading about it. The i5 has only 4 threads so it reaches very big CPU usage and has not much room for other programs to run (read: you need to close everything before starting a game), and it often has spikes to 100% causing noticeable sudden drop of FPS (noticeable in the first video that is showing Battlefield 1)
Whereas the R5 1600 has SMT (leaving more room for other stuff) and most importantly two more cores, so it doesn't reach nearly has high CPU usage and has an enormous amount of room for other stuff. It's also priced similarly to the 7600k (although it does not require a cooler which makes it technically cheaper).
Why did you decide to make this OP, are you even a /pcbg/ regular? If yes how in hell did you not notice all the talk about the R5 1600 being vastly superior to any i5?

>>60552160
What lies? The 7700K pulls ahead of the R7 and R5 in every single game apart from the more recent DX12 titles that takes advantage of more than six threads. Even when livestreaming 720p at 3500kbps, the i7-7700K pulls much better average FPS figures than any of the Ryzen CPUs. I have yet to see a single popular eSport or AAA game to buck the trend. You get outright lower FPS with Ryzen even when livestreaming. The only benefit from having more cores is that Ryzen won't suffer from as large of an FPS drop as the 7700K under similar circumstances, but the 7700K pulls such high numbers from the start that it doesn't matter at all.
>>60552230
I found it. It's much thinner, but at double the price. Probably two 12 gauge wires?
https://www.amazon.com/Silverstone-Lateral-Low-Profile-Connectors-CP11/dp/B00HDEBGSQ

>>60552261
>The 7700K pulls ahead of the R7 and R5 in every single game apart from the more recent DX12 titles that takes advantage of more than six threads.
and it BARELY does that while hitting huge spikes in CPU usage in comparison, so you can't run anything in the background like Discord.

>>60552261
>What lies? The 7700K pulls ahead of the R7 and R5 in every single
I'll quote the line again:
>Core i7-7700K - the ideal livestreaming CPU
The R7 1700 (priced similarly to 7700k) has four more cores than the 7700k. How does this not make it the ideal livestreaming CPU?
>Even when livestreaming 720p at 3500kbps
Ah yes i sure enjoy playing and streaming my games at 720p
Anyway, the 7700k has half the cores. 4 cores for AAA gaming + livestreaming is pure idiocy when the competition offers twice as much cores for the same price. Sure, maybe it can stream minecraft at 720p at a higher FPS, but that's about it. Play an AAA game while streaming it, or play Esport while streaming and it'll most likely shit the bed because of CPU usage.
>You get outright lower FPS with Ryzen even when livestreaming.
This is a bold claim, where are the charts to support it?

Considering even my R7 1700 has been a bottleneck while i was recording GTA V footage at high quality (which, reminder, uses all 16 threads of the 1700), i call total bullshit on your claims.

>>60552322
>(which, reminder, uses all 16 threads of the 1700)
And by that i meant both x264 and GTAV

>>60552252
>The i5 has only 4 threads so it reaches very big CPU usage and has not much room for other programs to run
That's not true and you know that. No matter what OS you're running, you will ALWAYS run background tasks alongside whatever game you're playing. The Core i5 only has four threads to process them all, and yet pulls better numbers in every single DX11 and most DX12 titles when paired with Nvidia or Radeon cards. Having more threads which aren't being fully utilized and are only drawing additional power is not ideal in any situation. The Core i5 posts better performance numbers in some of those videos than the R5 does, but it still uses less power while doing so because it only has four cores. This is where core count loses to per-core performance.
>and it often has spikes to 100% causing noticeable sudden drop of FPS
As does the 1600, and yet you say nothing of it, as if you're being paid by a certain company to drown out criticism against their product.

>>60552283
I played Wildlands with Discord and UPlay running in the background just fine on a 7700K. No noticeable performance loss or "stuttering".
You're making mountains out of anthills.

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non shill general!
>>60552344
>>60552344

>>60552352
>That's not true and you know that.
I posted video evidence supporting my claim, and asked you to watch them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBKHsMar1Jo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6Ovmxfejvo
https://youtu.be/JypkqwpOtNI?t=8m
>and yet pulls better numbers in every single DX11 and most DX12 titles
See video above. Are you gonna watch the evidence supporting my claims or keep doing your own claims without anything backing you up?

>As does the 1600, and yet you say nothing of it,
Are you telling me the r5 1600 hits 100% CPU usage in the same games the i5 does? Watch the videos?

>as if you're being paid by a certain company to drown out criticism against their product
No evidence backing your claims, ignore my evidence, resort to calling me a shill. Dumb OP, dumb person.

Actual thread:
>>60552344
>>60552344
>>60552344
>>60552344

>>60552322
>How does this not make it the ideal livestreaming CPU?
The R7 1700 (and the entire AM4 platform, for that matter) suffer from inconsistent performance in a lot of current next-gen titles, as well as hardware incompatibilities (such as getting XMP profiles to work out of the box). The 7700k is practically plug-and-play while offering much better gaming performance out of the box. The Intel line up's user-friendly and headache-free experience pushes it up even further in my own personal recommendations for Twitch livestreamers and eSport competitors. AMD fumbled the ball with AM4 and are still trying to make up for lost ground with microcode updates. I can not and will not recommend any AM4 CPU until it's gotten to the same out-of-the-box usability as the LGA1151 socket, which will take another few months.

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>>60552404
are (((you))) even trying?

>>60552404
>I can not and will not recommend any AM4 CPU
*to most livestreamers and eSport competitors
>>60552322
This is a bold claim, where are the charts to support it?
Personal experience on an R5 1600X. The Wildlands failed to reach the same consistent 60+ FPS on a GTX 1060 during a demo livestream. I've had no such problems on a Core i7-7700K that was left at stock.

>>60552404
Well it happens than /pcbg/ regulars and people that have come here and made an AM4 build based on our recommendations strongly disagree with you.
You are free to leave this general and never come back considering how you ignore anything we tell you.

>>60552344
>>60552344
>>60552344

>>60552435
Dispute the points like a rational person, and maybe then I won't shut down your inane complaints and overblown statements with disdain.
The Core i5 and Core i7 offer a better user experience for most gamers and liverstreamers. The Ryzen series is simply not there yet and I can not recommend it because of that.

>>60552463
You call me ignorant, and yet you're the ones running away to another thread with your tail between your legs! That's a first.
>people that have come here and made an AM4 build based on our recommendations strongly disagree with you
Because their metrics and needs from their computer differ from the majority of the buying public. Gamers make up a large portion of new component buyers. They don't care about how a CPU runs on some obscure OS. They only care about pure gaming performance, which Kaby Lake delivers in spades.

>>60552400
>Are you telling me the r5 1600 hits 100% CPU usage in the same games the i5 does?
Then tell me why is it that the R5 1600 fails to match the i5-7500 in average FPS figures, despite having this "CPU overhead" advantage. One would ASSUME that the R5 1600 would be able to stretch its metaphorical legs and produce higher figures with some of its underused threads running?
But that simply never happens in any of the games you've showed me thus far. There is a clear problem with Ryzen and that it's in a poorly optimized state. The Ryzen might have lower CPU usage, but it does not take advantage of that to produce higher performance, which is what gamers want.

>>60552496
>ignores facts in favor of personal bias
>people make another thread so they don't have to listen to a shill
>"lol tail between legs"
How about get a brain in your skull? You ignored all evidence of Intel getting their ass handed to them all because you love sucking dick.
Just because you're a retarded shill doesn't mean we have to listen to you. I bet you have a MAGA hat too you stupid fuck.

BTW, SAGE ALL THE THINGS!

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>>60551474
>Ryzen 5 1600 - decent six core, but not much going for it otherwise; Core i5s are a better choice for gaming
>Core i5s are a better choice for gaming

>>60552568
But you see, with my 1080Ti I only get 100fps instead of 110fps! Ryzen btfo

>>60552589
Yeah I don't understand those people that are like muh average fps. Ryzen gives you so much better min fps which makes your games so much smoother.

>>60552617
don't forget to sage this thread so it dies and the Intel-fag commits sudoku.

>>60552589
So you're admitting that a r5 1600 does bottleneck graphics cards?

>>60551088
Ah..
I really wouldn't get a sandy bridge. That's literally 6 years old now.
What about a G4560?

>>60551407
>Quad-core (no HT) - 1080p AAA Gaming Machine, 1080p Livestream (minimum), moderate workload
>Quad-core (HT) - 1440p/4K Gaming, 1080p Livestreaming (eSport, some AAA), heavy workload
This makes no fucking sense.
Both because 4c/4t drop below 60fps at times even games from FOUR FUCKING YEARS AGO, you dumb shill, and because resolution doesn't affect per-frame CPU performance,

>>60552021
whichever one you want the most :)

>>60552344
>>60552344
>>60552344
Actual thread, sage this one or do not engage in discussion in it.

>>60552041
It's annoying that this has to be posted every thread.

I think it's the same dumb shills that come in here questioning the 1600 recommendation over the 7600 most of the time, too.

>>60552087
Hard Drives
>SSHDs are not worth the money unless you can only fit ONE drive in your build's case
SSHDs are all 5900RPM drives with 8GB flash drives embedded in them. Once that flash dies (and you're not using it as a write-through cache), then you're fucked.
>5400rpm/5900rpm drives are best used in archival/NAS or media playback use
Expect lower temperature, lower noise, higher reliability, and between 70-160MB/s of performance
>7200rpm drives perform well for production and gaming
Expect warmer temperatures, higher noise, lower reliability (apart from enterprise-based drives which I'll get to below) and between 90-210MB/s of performance for 500GB-3TB drives OR 100-230MB/s for 4TB-8TB non-SMR drives.
>SMR are crap
They take longer to write to and vary in consistent write performance due to how it writes to the outer track as a temporary cache first, and then writes onto the disk in overlapping layer. DO NOT USE SMR DRIVES FOR ANYTHING OTHER THAN ARCHIVAL OR READ-HEAVY PURPOSES, unless you have an SSD acting as a cache for it. Using SMR drives on their own is tricky and actually warranted HGST to make a presentation on using SMR drives for specific read-heavy applications.
>Cache size and platter speed makes a huge difference for everyday performance
Go no less than a 7200rpm 500GB-3TB HDD with 64MB of cache or 7200rpm 4TB-6TB HDDs with 128MB of cache for gaming or production. 5900rpm drives can work alright with 32MB cache, but 64MB of cache will boost random read performance significantly
>SAS drives are not compatible with SATA!
So that supercheap HGST Ultrastar on Amazon can't be used in your build without a SAS HBA/RAID adapter.

>>60552235
Skyhawk is designed for multiple threads of constant writes onto the disk. It's not really good performance for the value, since they're more expensive than the regular 7200rpm desktop drives they sell.

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>>60551366
Hello /PCBG/!

I am building a Vidya/Streaming/youtube rig and I need some advice:

I haven't bought a computer in over 10 years, so I'm going as top of the line as I can... however I don't want to stray too far above a budget of $3000.00

My first question is this: Do I sink half (or more) of my funds into an intel I7 6950X, or go for the AMD Ryzen 7 1800X at nearly 1/3 of the price? pros and cons would be nice as I am neither an intel nor an AMD fanboy and don't really understand the differences between the two chipset archetectures past the ratings on3dmark (which put the AMD at only slightly slower for the money)

>>60554142
The Ryzen 7 1700X, without a doubt. It is cheaper than either of your choices and can be overclocked to match the 1800X. The difference in encoding times is not negligible between the 6950X and the 1800X, but you can buy more equipment and hardware to speed up your work elsewhere in doing so.

6950X for the processor alone, is 1600 dollars.

An 1800X gives you 99% of the performance, for less than 500 dollars.

>>60554216
>>60554245
can either of you explain why the 6950x is so much more expensive than the 1800x? Is AMD prone to bugs like my friend says, or is intel just playing off of it's popularity/marketshare?
OR, is intel actually a superior product in some way that's substantial?

>>60554292
The 6950X offer more PCIe lanes from the CPU, more memory channels for higher total capacity and faster transfer rate, and has two more cores. That aside, Intel is free to charge however much they want for their components. My understanding is that the dies Intel uses to make all of the Core i7 and Xeon E5-16XX are the same and thus rely on the quality of yields. The 6950X and E5-1680 are all highest quality yields since the silicon needs to be flawless for all cores to operate with lower voltages. That's one of the reasons why it costs so much.

Ryzen, by comparison, is a third of the size of the 6950X's. Smaller die combined with absurdly high yields (something like 80% of Ryzen dies come out fine, which is very rare for a new process) means that AMD can sell Ryzen 7s for much less than their Intel counterparts. But the reason why the die is so small is because they cut a lot of features and connectivity to make it cheaper.

>>60554292
There's no reason for most people who would make use of HEDT performance to not go with ryzen purely on value but intel HEDT is better in some areas like memory bandwidth size it supports quad channel memory and I remember seeing some shit I didn't fully understand about intel being better at some obscure instructions, but at the end of the day broadwell-X and ryzen 7 are both consumer devices so within that scope the AMD performance is appropriate and in value for money right now it's got a massive lead

Alright. Got a couple of questions. First:
>can I OC Ryzen 5 1600X or potentially 1700 to 3.9+ GHz without going too high on temps with the Cooler Master MasterAir Pro 4 cooler
>give me a yes or no and an estimate on temps if you can for each
And....
>does the Gigabyte GA-AB350-GAMING have dual bios?
>inb4 google, i did for both. For mobo question it said support for dual bios. Im guessing yes, but "support" makes me uncertain

>>60554521
>Cooler Master MasterAir Pro 4 cooler
Yes, but I can't guarantee that it will hit 3.9GHz. You're lucky if you get 3.8GHz on all cores. Temperature isn't the issue with Ryzen, it's the frequencies the cores want to maintain. At worst, you're looking at 3.7GHz on all cores at about mid 50 degrees Celsius at room temperature with the fan running at 100%. Add about 7-10 degrees for 75% fan speed.

>>60554521
>does the Gigabyte GA-AB350-GAMING have dual bios
And yes, it does support dual BIOS, but I believe you have to back up both profiles on a flash drive after setting them because I only see one BIOS chip on the board. That might mean that it stores the BIOS profiles on a non-volatile flash somewhere on the motherboard rather than in a second BIOS chip

I need to buy a new external hard drive soon. My two current ones are around 7 years old and I haven't looked into hard drives since when I bought them. Is Seagate still a brand to avoid? As I'm noticing WD drives are slightly more expensive and of course I would like to save money where I can, though stability is worth the price if I need to spend more. And are 4TB drives stable or would it be better to buy 2x2TB?

>>60554600
Noise is absolutely no problem. I live next to a fucking train and under a plane flight pattern. Ive actually seen my house from a plane back to the closest airport. I lived next to fucking crackhead neighbors for as long as ive been in my neighborhood, which is many years. Thyve hsd many a party thats gone on too long too loud at night. I sleep just fine. I just dont want to be cooking.
>>60554657
Goddamn it. I hope not

>>60553014
So there's sage wars between different camps of shills now?

>>60554701
Yes, but unlike the cowards who fled to their safespace, I will continue to answer questions factually.

>>60554679
Seagate Expansions are cheap and alright. The Seagate Backup Hubs are literally the same exact drives in a different enclosure with a price uptick. I've been using one on and off for the last two years without a hitch. What are you looking to do with the external drive?

>>60554693
>Goddamn it. I hope not
That's not a big deal. You can buy a second or third BIOS chip on ebay for literal pennies. And all motherboard manufacturers do this for their cheaper motherboards to reduce costs and save space on the PCB.

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/Y8p2Gf

I'm coming from a AMD 760k and an R7 260X

Does this upgrade make sense? I only play older games (and some Doom.MSG V).

>>60554847
>https://pcpartpicker.com/list/Y8p2Gf
Yes, although I'll argue that the GTX 1050 is slightly better than the RX 560 in older APIs due to Radeon driver's higher CPU overhead.

>>60554679
>As I'm noticing WD drives are slightly more expensive
Yeah, that's why I don't buy WD external drives. You either buy the cheapest drive you can get away with. Then you stress test it when it arrives by doing a full format (with sector scans), encrypt the drive in place, and then perform a full drive wipe within the first 48 hours to see if anything happens with near 100% load in the first few hours of its life. Statistically, a drive malfunction from the factory reveals itself with 95% regularity within its first 100 hours of its life. Once it passes this gauntlet, your drive is pretty much past the point where any obvious or serious fault would normally occur.

But consider buying an external hard drive dock instead. All of the manufactured external drives have shitty power delivery systems, poorly-built USB controllers, or both. The power delivery component is the leading cause of external hard drive failures outside of hard impacts or physical trauma. Most +$40 external drive docks have slightly better power delivery, but do what I did and buy a RAID or multi-bay external hard drive enclosure. They tend to have much beefier components to deal with a larger power drain over time.

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So I'm planning on building a new system, and I'd like to use water cooling instead of air cooling. However, I haven't ever used water cooling and everyone I talk to tells me that I'm going to 'regret it' if i try to build it myself because of leaks and water damage etc. Is water cooling that hard to set up?

Also, is it possible to have a completely sealed system using water cooling, to protect against dust damage? For some reason my computers tend to gather a LOT of dust, and I'm in a hot climate so you can imagine the problems i have normally. (no, I'm not a smoker, but yes I do have pets, so i have an idea where the dust comes from)

>>60555680
It's easy if you're mechanically minded. There's a few AIO's that are fully made, just mount to the CPU and case that perform better than current Air coolers. Corsair GTX being one of them.
No you can't really have a closed system. but you can have a lot less air flow through the case if yo externally mount the radiator with enough space to draw from air outside(spacers under the mount to keep it off the case, then tape the hole).
You will still need cool air going through the case for the graphics card and RAM. But should be able to get away with one 120mm intake, and one 120mm out take.
AIO's should have a failure warranty, where they're liable for any and all damage caused.
Not the case with custom made loops, unless it's physically the part, not so much a leaky connection because it's hard to prove that it wasn't user error.

AIO's are also very reliable because of the payouts they'd have to make if they fail.

For any further questions post in this thread linked. >>60552344
This is not an active thread due to frivolous marketing done via the OP.

Do people here HONESTLY believe that having shit like Discord open in the background interferes with gaming performance? What the fuck is wrong with you idiots? It's 2017 not 2001.

>>60555680
>Is water cooling that hard to set up?
It's annoying, not hard. Getting all the right fitting, cutting the tubs to the right length without putting too much strain on different fitting, topping off the water level inside the reservoir without getting air bubbles trapped somewhere in the system, and then having to bleed the system dry to replace the fluid every 2-6 months is a hassle.
>is it possible to have a completely sealed system using water cooling, to protect against dust damage
No, the only way to have a truly dust-proof system is to remove the dust from the environment. There was a protoype case I saw with a built-in HEPA filter for your type of situation, but I don't know if they even made it into production. Your absolute best bet to minimize dust intake is cover any seam on the case with foam tape from the inside, reduce the number of fans taking air into the case, and to dust the area around your computer every day. Fan filters do exist, but having used some in the past, I can safely say that it prevent dust from getting into the fan, but not anywhere around it.

As for your current situation, I'd recommend a regular tower air cooler only because it's a lot easier to clean with compressed air compared to getting dust out of those tiny spaces between a radiator fin.
Let's start by minimizing dust intake by looking for a case with as few bottom and top intakes or seams as possible. Look for a case with a covered front intake, preferably with a removable front filter. Only have one or two fans as intakes in the front, and one fan at the rear exhausting. Buy the thinnest window sealant foam tape, then plug up those panel gaps by removing all the case panels and taping any part where metal-meets panel. Do the same with any obvious exterior gaps, but use regular tape for regular gaps or holes. You should also buy fan gaskets to mount between your fan and the case.

>>60555965
Not only will you cut down on dust ingress significantly by doing so, but you will also experience much less noise as much of the sounds from a computer case is caused by the fans vibrating against the case panels.

I'd also consider investing in an air compressor with a humidity trap rather than buying cans of compressed air, since you'll need to clean the inside of the case every week or so. Vacuum or dust daily around the outside of the case, or twice a day if your filters turn white and hairy within two days. Clean your front filter once you can see more white than the filter's original color.

Apart from building a clean room and putting your computer in there, there is not much else you can do for dust control.

>>60555897
>This is not an active thread due to frivolous marketing done via the OP.
Go fuck yourself, there is no marketing going on apart from the rampant AMD shilling in your thread.

>>60555914
The AMD marketing is strong in the other thread. They're trying to convince people that a quad-core can't run games at 1080p without stuttering when Core i7s have been doing that for almost a decade now.

>>60556032
>>60555965

So do you think it's worth it, instead, to simply avoid water cooling altogether and go for an Air cooled system instead? I've done some reading about those massive cooling radiators that they're strapping to CPUs now and how the weight of them is slowly ripping the mounts off of mobos and causing damage. Is this true? Should I be going for a non conventional 'side laying' case if this is an issue?

also, I was watching this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8EN3K-eaVA&spfreload=1 (sorry if the channel is shitty, I just take info from wherever I can) talking about positive vs negative airflow and was contemplating a positive airflow solution with filtered fans. since you have experience with filtered fans, do you think it would work?

i bought this pc with the intention of upgrading the graphics card from the r7 350 2gb to the gtx 1070

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883230169

will i run into any problems?

im pretty tech illiterate and new to this pc gaming thing

>>60556261
>Is this true?
I think you mean air coolers, and for the most part decent air cooler manufacturers build strong brackets that can distribute the load on the PCB a lot more evenly.
The only reason why I'd recommend an air cooler for your situation is because you're going to be dealing with a lot of dust and dander, and it's a lot easier getting dust out of spaced surfaces on a heatsink than the tiny fins of an AIO radiator.
>positive airflow solution with filtered fans
Normally, I'd say yes, and that's pretty much the solution I offered in my previous post. The only issue is if your front fan filter doesn't filter out most of the incoming dust.

The best way to keep a case dust-free is to manage the dust outside of the case before it gets a chance to enter your system. Dust and clean regularly.

>>60556294

>>60556294

>>60556294

Also forgot to mention, whats the minimum integrated graphics that will drive a 4k monitor?
Just for daily use.

>>60556275
First off, they put an overclockable CPU in a motherboard that can't do overclocking at all.
You'll need to buy a new motherboard if you want to take advantage of that processor, otherwise you should find a non-K i5 prebuilt for less money.

And yes, you can swap out the graphics card to a GTX 1070, but make sure that the PSU that comes with the system can handle the extra power drain and has the needed PCIe power connectors. That's a fairly terrible power supply that comes with that prebuilt.

>>60556326
The 7870 is the same GPU as the R9 280X. I think you need to consider purchasing a used GTX 970 or R9 290X in order to truly "upgrade" from a 7870.

What's your budget?

>whats the minimum integrated graphics that will drive a 4k monitor
Any current Intel HD Graphics or AMD APU R5 Graphics.

>>60556400
>>60556326
Sorry, that's any current Intel or AMD APU that supports HDMI2.0 or DisplayPort 1.2, so basically any modern Intel or AMD system.

>>60556356
i called new egg directly and they said there should be no problems

the psu said that its 600w and the 1070 only needs 500

>>60556473
I bet you can find a cheaper i5 pre-built for about $100 less on newegg. That's my only real objection to that particular PC, since it seems like CyberpowerPC is trying to dupe people into pay $100 more for a single part that can't even be utilized properly on their product.
>the psu said that its 600w and the 1070 only needs 500
The PSU is an 80+ rated non-mod made by some OEM-only supplier with a bad reputation. The PSU could handle up to 600W, but I doubt the supplier bothered testing the PSU after manufacturing, nor did CPPC test them after delivery. That system will probably use no more than 400W at maximum load, but do you trust the PSU to hold it's end of the bargain when that time comes? I don't.

>>60556400
>7870 is the same GPU as the R9 280X
wasn't the 280x a rebranded 7970 ghz?

>>60556609
You know what, you're right. I think it was the R9 270X that was the rebranded 7870.

The 280X isn't as large of a performance jump compared to the 270X, and the R9 285/380 aren't faster than the 280X. If you can pick one up for under $100, then that's pretty good, but you have to remember that a lot of these GPUs were used in cryptocurrency mining rigs, so their lifespan is fairly limited.

My advice is to save your money and buy a new GPU for about $150. You can buy an RX 470 for that price and that's about double the performance of an R9 270X.

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>>60556321
Air coolers huh, do you mean like a Scythe SCFM-1000 Fuma?

One of the reasons I had planned on going to water cooling for this system was because of clearance issues with the CPU heatsink and adjacent Ram sticks.

just to clear things up, I'm >>60554142 as well, and I'm trying to build up a system with that budget. I'd be willing to throw another grand if necessary but I really would like to keep it under 3k just because.. well.. I had to save for nearly half a year just to get this far and I'd really like to start actually putting stuff out there on twitch/youtube rather than waiting any longer.

Is there any way, do you think, to put together a system that will allow me to get ...

>"1440p/4K Gaming, 1080p Livestreaming (AAA), Live video encoding to HEVC/VP9" etc.. ?

I've been planning around these specs from a youtuber that I watch, but he's got far more disposable cash than I:

CPU: Intel i7 6950X
CPU Cooler: Corsair H100i v2
GPU: EVGA GTX 1080 ti
RAM: 32GB DDR4 (4x8) Corsair Vengence 3000Mhz
Motherboard: ASUS X99-A II
PSU: Corsair RM850W
SSD(s): Samsung M.2 960 PRO SSD 512GB (OS)
Samsung 850 EVO 1TB (Programs, Games and Recording)
Case: Corsair 750D
OS: Windows 10 Pro 64 Bit

Monitor(s): BenQ 24" XL2430T 144hz (Left secondary monitor), BenQ 24" XL2430T 144hz (Middle main monitor)
AOC E1659FWU (Right OBS Monitor)
Microphone: AT2020 USB+
Microphone Accessories: RODE PSA1
Samson SP01 Shockmount

The thing is, he quoted his system at $5K so I'm trying to chip away at things to bring costs down.

>>60556507
well the pc is already on the way so its too late to stop it now

what if i was to get a gtx 1060 instead? it only requires 400w, would i be safe then?

>>60556706
>SSD(s): Samsung M.2 960 PRO SSD 512GB (OS)
>Samsung 850 EVO 1TB (Programs, Games and Recording)
chip away at these, total waste.

>>60556706
>but he's got far more disposable cash than I:
That's fairly overkill for a start-up Youtuber. You don't throw money into a computer like that unless you're making an income off of it and the reduced time between uploading videos can mean losing a few thousand dollars in ad revenue.

Give me a minute, I'll fix that build

What's the best b350 Mobo for getting a Ryzen 1600x to 4ghz and ram speed at 2933mghz?

>>60556792
Getting Ryzen's memory controller to work with any DDR4 DIMM above 2666 seems to be a crap shoot at the moment. I'd say Gigabyte and ASRock's higher-end B350 motherboards are a good place to look, but I'll make no guarantees that you'll be able to get higher than 2666MHz on those.

You'll probably also have a tough time getting 4.0GHz out of a 1600X on any motherboard.

>>60556866
Should I just go x370 then?

>>60556898
No, a B350 will be just fine. Using an X370 motherboard won't change anything if your CPU's silicon is just crap. Look for one of the high-end B350 boards and pray.

>>60556706
https://pcpartpicker.com/list/3tnVPs
Alright, you might not like the screen downgrade I did here, but trust me when I say this: running three monitors at mixed refresh rates is a fucking nightmare to work with on a normal day.
A single ultrawide 1440p monitor is a perfect stopgap until ultrawide 2160p monitors become more affordable. Also, don't fall for the 144Hz meme if you're not playing competitive eSports. Your gameplay won't suffer and your viewers are going to be stuck watching your videos at 30 or 60FPS.

Also, 5TB seems like a lot, and it is. That's more than enough room for saving raw footage, finished videos, and an entire game library on it, and still having room for other things.

>>60557230
Wow... ok let me take a look at this for a minute.

>>60557257
Let me know what exactly you're looking to do with this build. What games do you plan on streaming? Where do you plan on streaming? What software are you going to use? What bitrate are you going to record in? And anything else computer related that you might do.

>>60556128
an i7 is 4c/8t, you retard.
That has only been said in regards to i5s, which are 4c/4t, and it's true.

>>60557230
jeez you really took some time on this! I didn't even know about this build site either. Then again I'm not a /g/ regular so please forgive my ignorance lol.

The build needs to be strong enough to stream even graphically intense games (i guess FPS's would be the upper end nowadays, crysis, Ark, etc) at as close to max settings as possible while still being able to get professional results on the viewer end. (up to and including 1080p HD for youtube videos, and smooth, 1080p(60) on platforms like twitch). I'll be honest, I'm new to the whole streaming/youtubing thing so I'm learning as I go, but I'd really like to make a go of this. (eventually, if I could do this full time it would be amazing. As it is I would just do it whenever I get home from work) So forgive me if I don't exactly know the bitrate stuff atm.

But I'll mostly be doing gaming, which is why I need the beefy rig. Regular videos/vlogs etc dont take much computer power to transfer I'm sure.

Btw, email me at this throwaway please, I really appreciate you taking the time to walk me through this.

[spoiler][email protected][/spoiler]

>>60557464
>at as close to max settings as possible while still being able to get professional results on the viewer end
Youtube's encoding will ruin whatever details are in the captured footage (they are usually below 4500 kbps for 1080p footage, which makes most fast-moving scenes look blocky and irregular), so forget about preserving texture quality outside of slow-paced scenes or still images. The only way around this is to upload high bitrate x264-encoded videos at a high quality preset and hope Youtube's reencoding software doesn't fuck things up even more. You'll need to toy around with the settings to get the best possible video quality at the smallest file size, since uploading will take a significant amount of time.
>1080p(60) on twitch
Not happening until you get partnered, which could take time. Your best bet is to stream at 720p 30FPS at the maximum 3500 kbps bitrate allowed by twitch for non-partnered users. That might seem like a downgrade, but it's the highest-quality video setting you can get away with without going below HD.

Either case, live encoding requires a lot of grunt, as does running most modern games. The R7 1700X can pull both tasks off, and the only way to get better results is to use a two-computer set up where you have one dedicated gaming system (an i7-7700K fits the bill) connected to a encoding and recording PC (the R7 1700 works here) that does the live encoding and uploading to twitch or Youtube while encoding and recording a separate stream onto a local drive. But as you can tell, that costs a lot more money, since you'll need to invest in a $400 HDMI 2.0 capture card, an HDMI 2.0 splitter, and an entire computer on top of that.

>Regular videos/vlogs etc dont take much computer power to transfer I'm sure.
They do take

>>60557591
You really don't need a high end CPU on a dedicated streaming machine. I'm pretty sure that dual core Pentium could pull it off.

Can anyone tell me if I need to upgrade my mobo? I picked the cheapest one that was compatible with my PSU because I know that I won't be overclocking and I trust ASRock, I just want to make sure I'm not missing out on any important features or capabilities down the road.

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/CRGF9W
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157767&nm_mc=AFC-C8Junction&cm_mmc=AFC-C8Junction-PCPartPicker,%20LLC-_-na-_-na-_-na&cm_sp=&AID=10446076&PID=3938566&SID=
http://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/A320M-DGS/index.asp

>>60557632
compatible with my *CPU

>>60557464
>Regular videos/vlogs etc dont take much computer power to transfer I'm sure
They do take processing power to render to a Youtube or livestreamable format, since you'll have to re-encode the video source down to an h.264 4:2:0 format video. Most cameras already do this, but higher end 4K capable cameras have their own settings that requires a bit of live encoding to make it streamable to twitch.

>>60557606
It will need to do both streaming and recording, because using archived footage from twitch or Youtube to make a video out of will lead to significant downgrade in quality.
It will also need to be able to edit and process videos as quickly as possible in order to keep up with a daily video upload schedule (which draws the most viewership and ad-revenue on Youtube, if I'm not mistaken). This set up could allow him to both livestream from the gaming PC and encode past videos on the R7 1700 PC at the same time.

>>60552400
don't hijack threads for your personal beef

>>60552463
>generating false consensus
And take your psyops bullshit back to /pol/ too

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>>60557591
Right now I have a bit of a potato (see image) but it should be able to act as the dedicated streaming machine, while encoding and recording right? (or is it too weak?)

>>60557706
It will struggle with 720p live encoding, but it's possible. I'll bet that a single 1700X can outdo that old computer+ a dedicated gaming computer.

>>60557706
That is a little too old for live encoding, pretty sure. Isn't that shit older than h.264 itsself? Not good.

>>60557632
Read this
>Ryzen's SoC - comes with the CPU itself
Supports Dual Channel DIMMs, Up to 16 PCIe 3.0 lanes (and up to 8 PCIe 2.0 lanes to the chipset), Up to 2 SATAIII ports (or none if M.2 is set at full bandwidth), Up to one M.2 at PCIe 2.0 x2 (PCIe 2.0 x4 if SATAIII ports are unused)
>A320
4 DIMMs (Max DDR4-2666*) , no CPU PCIe lane allocation, Up to 4 PCIe 2.0 lanes, 2 SATAIII ports, M.2 limited to PCIe 2.0 x2 (half that of the H110 chipset)
>B350
Same as A320, but up to 6 PCIe 2.0 lanes and supports overclocking

You're not missing all that much

Does anyone here have the Corsair Carbide Air 240 mATX case?
I'm looking into getting it but I'm having trouble finding a good CPU cooler that fits into it. I'm getting a Ryzen 1600X and was thinking about the Noctua UH-12S SE-AM4 but it's too big for the case, so now I have no idea what to get.

>>60557464
Sent, or do I need to send you pictures of my email address to verify?

>>60557735
>>60557726

yeah it's nearly 10 years old now, which is part of why I'm willing to justify such a large wad of cash for the new pc. I just wish i had a little more so I could splurge on the more high end bits, but i don't own any of the perepherals (mic, stand, new monitor (I'm still using https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824002122 lol.) though I would probably use the old one as a second monitor for twitch streaming (chat/moderation/etc)

>>60557230
are you
>>60557796 with something similar to this address?
'africanamericanafricanamerican@largeafricanamericanpenises' email address? lol

>>60557784
Use the pcpartpicker height filter for CPU coolers
The maximum height for that case is 120mm, which rules out most tower air coolers and only leaves AIOs or flat/c-type coolers.

>>60557770
>4 DIMMs (Max DDR4-2666*)
Where is this from? As far as I know, my mobo supports two sticks of ram and can support DDR4-3200+ (which is important because the RAM I'm getting is 2800)
I don't really understand the ports part I guess, but I know that I just need one slot for my gtx 1060, and 2 SATA ports for my HDDs, and MAYBE a port for a SDD down the road

>>60557880
>I just need one slot for my gtx 1060
What I meant to say is that I just need enough slots to support my gtx 1060, I'm not 100% but I think it might take up two PCI express slots

>>60557907
AMD only guarantees DDR4-2666 on any AM4 CPU, so any RAM speed higher than that is like going over Kaby Lake's DDR4-2400 specification
>>60557880
>I think it might take up two PCI express slots
Physically, since it will physically block the PCIe slot below it, but that particular motherboard has nothing below the primary x16 slot. All you have there is a x1 on top and a x16 slot right below.
You don't have to worry about losing PCIe slots.

>>60557591
>The only way around this is to upload high bitrate x264-encoded videos at a high quality preset and hope Youtube's reencoding software doesn't fuck things up even more. You'll need to toy around with the settings to get the best possible video quality at the smallest file size, since uploading will take a significant amount of time.
>1080p(60) on twitch
Not happening until you get partnered, which could take time. Your best bet is to stream at 720p 30FPS at the maximum 3500 kbps bitrate allowed by twitch for non-partnered users. That might seem like a downgrade, but it's the highest-quality video setting you can get away with without going below HD.

Just out of curiosity, will the setup you listed earlier have enough power to do the heavy duty stuff once I do get partnered, (assuming I do ) and can it handle encoding high bitrate X24 videos?

>>60557997
messed up my greentext, but you know what i mean

>>60557997
Yes, without a doubt. I'll dare say you could handle two or three 1080p60 9000kbps livestreams and recording at the same time with the 1700X, so you'll still be able to use this build if your channel ever grows large enough to fund a new gaming PC for you.

>>60557907
oh Anon, it only plugs into 1 slot, it's double width in terms of physical scale only, so it could potentially block one but it won't on that.

>>60557837
Goddamnit, I missed that filter option. Thanks, dude.

>>60558031

Sounds great! btw, did you actually email me, or has someone else done so pretending to be you? just asking.

>>60557993
Okay so if I want to use my DDR4 2800 ram I need to make sure that my mobo supports it, which it appears that it does?
It sounds like you're saying my mobo is fine since I'm not overclocking and I should have the enough ports for the components I plan to use.

>>60558067
Well, ASRock claims they support up to DDR4-3200
http://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/A320M-DGS/#Specification
But take it with a grain of salt because all motherboard manufacturers say the same thing right now, and people are still complaining about their motherboard not POSTing past 2666.

>>60558077
Well the price is good on this 2800, and I think 2666 was where the first plateau of performance improvement started in this article I read, so that's fine
Oh one more question, the specification says it supports CPUs "up to" 65 watts and the 1600 is listed at 65 watts. Is it a problem to have those numbers be the same, or is that normal?

>>60558102
It won't support 95W "X" Ryzens without a downclock or some sort of voltage setting change. It probably also has to do with the XFR feature on "X" CPUs.

>>60558102
Also, because of how Ryzen's CCX is directly tied to the base clock and how XMP profiles are basically base clock overclocking, you'll see consistent performance jumps with each increase in RAM frequency. Too bad Ryzen can't handle anything higher than 3200MHz at the moment.

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>>60558147
Here's the article and graph I was thinking of when I talked about plateaus. It kind of looks like there are plateaus but that's probably just because there are only five plot points
http://www.legitreviews.com/ddr4-memory-scaling-amd-am4-platform-best-memory-kit-amd-ryzen-cpus_192259
Anyway thanks for the advice, I think the final verdict is that this mobo is fine for my purposes and shouldn't hinder me in the future