Ban C

sure when somebody makes a good language to replace it

>le ban C maymay XDDDDDDDDDD
>>>/reddit/
Sage, report and hide.

>>60505805

If you care about speed, you do it in either assembly or in C. And since C compilers write assembly better than 99% of programmers, you plain just do it in C.
High level / "safe" languages are typically dynamic or have runtime resolution of some sort and therefore making it slow. I bet you're the type to think that pointers are unsafe, too.

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>>60505837
Rust doesn't have this problem

>Ownership
The compiler uses an affine type system to track the ownership of each value: a value can only be used at most once, after which the compiler refuses to use it again.

fn main() {
    let original = "Hello, World!".to_string();
    let other = original;
    println!("{}", original);
}

yields an error:

4:20: 4:28 error: use of moved value: `original` [E0382]
4     println!("{}", original);
                     ^~~~~~~~

This, notably, prevents the dreaded double-free regularly encountered in C or C++ (prior to smart pointers).

>Borrowing
The illumination that comes from Rust is that memory issues occur when one mixes aliasing and mutability: that is, when a single piece of memory is accessible through multiple paths and it is mutated (or moved away) leaving behind dangling pointers.

The core tenet of borrow checking is therefore: Mutability XOR Aliasing. It's similar to a Read-Write Lock, in principle.

This means requires that the Rust compiler tracks aliasing information, for which it uses the lifetime annotations (those 'a in &'a var) to connect the lifetime of references and the value they refer to together.

A value is borrowed if someone has a reference to it or INTO it (for example, a reference to a field of a struct or to an element of a collection). A borrowed value cannot be moved.

>Mutability (without aliasing)
You can obtain only a single mutable reference (&mut T) into a given value at any time, and no immutable reference into this value may exist at the same time; it guarantees that you have exclusive access to this tidbit of memory and thus you can safely mutate it.

>>60505877
Don't bother replying to him, these kind of threads are made by Rust shills, they'll just reply with more memes.

>>60505877
We've reached the point where we are not restricted by hardware anymore. 8 cores 16 threads are the new norm. You should notice:

Computers are enormously quicker but software development is not faster.
Dependency management is a big part of software development today but the “header files” of languages in the C tradition are antithetical to clean dependency analysis—and fast compilation.
There is a growing rebellion against cumbersome type systems like those of Java and C++, pushing people towards dynamically typed languages such as Python and JavaScript.
Some fundamental concepts such as garbage collection and parallel computation are not well supported by popular systems languages.
The emergence of multicore computers has generated worry and confusion.

>>60505947
>We've reached the point where we are not restricted by hardware anymore
What a retard. I write programs that routinely grind the fuck out of the current hardware. Fucking game shitters.

>>60505980
Write good programs then

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>>60505862
>This mad

>>60505947
>Computers are enormously quicker but software development is not faster.
I've also noticed that computers are enormously faster, but software is not faster. That's because of people like you.

>>60505902
Good post. anon. Thanks. I'm not into programming but if I am I'll definitely look into Rust

>>60506058
>but software is not faster.
Back in the 80's, people used to write CLI programs, which were not resource intensive. GUI applications are more costly and thus you feel that difference. What remained from the 80's style computing is the practice of unsafe programming.

>>60505902
>The compiler uses an affine type system to track the ownership of each value: a value can only be used at most once, after which the compiler refuses to use it again.
Which is also why rusffags always use the latest nightly Rust builds, so that they can use the latest and greatest (((unsafe))) features, so they can actually use their shitty language for anything more advanced the Hello World.

>>60506084
In case you hadn't noticed, GUIs have been ubiquitous since the 90s.

>>60506100
And those were slow

these are my favorite threads

>>60506105
Not slower than today's GUIs.

>>60506125
That's because todays hardware are faster

>>60506134
That should mean that the old GUIs should be slower.

>>60506157
No, the current hardware makes up for it

>>60505805
>Use rust
Nice sjw shilling, heck we could go even further and use nodejs or electron

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>>60506085
lol, this. I can't way for Rust to take over just to see all the new CVEs constantly found in unsafe blocks written by people who thought rust would be safe.

>>60506171
I'd rather not have kernel level security exploit than your confliction of philosophical stand point

>>60506167
If hardware has become faster, the programs running on it should also run faster. The fact that they don't means that software has become slower. Because of people like you.

>>60506194
?

>>60505805
we'll ban C if you rewrite the whole kernel first or give bajillion of dollars to fund it. bear in mind that I'll have to review the code so you better get to it

t. linus torvalds

>>60505947


>implying you know shit about application performance

I'll bet this anon loves Electron apps

>>60506222
Top quality argument 10/10 really made me think

>>60506221
Linux is a C purist kernel (project philosophy), you can't rewrite Linux in other languages

>>60505902
>SJWust
kys

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>>60506266
So where is your argument?

>>60506179
>>60506085
servo is now on rust stable, so you don't know at all what you are talking about

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>>60506281
fuck off commie scum

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>>60506391
So all you got is:
>kys
>SJW
>Commie scum etc.

Are you so upset that you have lost your clear mind? Or are you trying to fit into the thread and look cool?

>>60505947
Every layer of abstraction eliminates a decade of CPU advances. And multiple cores won't help here at all.

>>60506248
watch me

>>60506442
Elaborate. Also, things like macros aren't really big of an abstractions

>>60506391
you don't judge a programmer by their opinions, only their code

>>60505980
you are fucking terrible with your algorithms then you dumbass

>>60506485
How hypocritical.

>>60506506
Why is that hypocritical? And why is a little bit of hypocrisy bad? Everyone one is hypocrite

>>60506442
>Every layer of abstraction eliminates a decade of CPU advances
LOL you don't understand zero cost abstractions

>>60506506
http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=7516

>Rust toddlers need IDEs to fix their syntax errors
>Rust toddlers need compilers to fix their logic errors
>Rust togglers need languages to collect their garbage

>>60506503
>>60505993
I'm actually pretty good. You just have no idea what you're talking about.

>thinking I write "apps" or "games"

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>>60506418
>>60506485
fuck off commie scum.

every line of code you write in Rust destroys white peopluation.

>>60506536
>IDE is bad
hmmm, I wonder how old you are

>>60506540
Is this false-flagging? kek

>>60506546
>integrated DESIGNATED environments

>>60506525
The SJWs who push for Rust don't judge by the code alone, so it's pretty hypocritical of them to demand that. Do I really have to spell it out to you, you tumblrina?

My philosophy is tit for tat.

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>>60505805
>t. Go bootcamp kiddie

>>60505805
It's ok. Linux being free and open source means there are a million eyes looking for this sort of thing so it would be immediately found out and patched when it was first introduced 25 years ago.

>>60506536
A good compiler and a good IDE is what you need if you are developing anything but fizzbuzz. Also, Rust is not garbage collected. Learn and educate yourself, neo-/g/

>>60506560
Now that's edgy

>>60506573
The problem is not in Linux, the problem is in C

>>60506538
Like what faggot? I'd like to hear about the hard core programs that you C retards claim to write.

>>60506576
>neo-/g/
t. /r/unixporn

>>60506560
I'd say you are 15~16

>>60506453
OS adds a huge overhead(you could see examples even in Terry's videos, where his scheduler was 3 orders of magnitudes faster than Linux's). Language itself introduces overheads. Then there are languages for VMs. About 30% percent of CPU time is spent on dereferencing pointers. Macros are just code transformations, so really no big deal here, but they can inflate the resulting code.

>>60506590
But it's open source. Open source is free of exploits.

>>60505805
>Linux
>Secure
Pick one. Now that grsec is effectively closed source (prove me wrong and post patches, faggots) it has worse security than Windows 10.

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Languages like Rust are for autists. It's time to move on to C#.

Give me a single reason C# can't fulfill all of your programming needs.

>>60506595
Physics simulations.

>>60506603
So some overheads are not avoidable? Who knew?
>>60506610
Nothing to do with source being open or not
>>60506616
It's fixed already, idiot

>>60506618
>Slower than Java
kek

>>60506616
GRsecurity is mostly placebo

>>60506630
Who cares? Performance is good enough with modern hardware.

Look at Android. It gets slower and slower every year, but as mobile hardware becomes more and more powerful, effective performance remains unaffected.

>>60506654
>Slower than Android apps
kek

>>60506618
Human garbage like you should be collected

Microsoft Windows doesn't have this problem.

>>60506540
>every line of code you write in Rust destroys white peopluation.
HAHAHAHAHA

>>60506565
They are free to do that, it has no effect on the language's usability or the code they produce. I don't care about what their opinions are.

>>60506670
Microsoft Windows has tons of other problems. Like that one bug that lets hackers encrypt HDDs and wants ransom :^)

>>60506623
>It's fixed already, idiot
lel, like how the exploits in Windows were already fixed before WannaCry was a thing. How many of these silly Linux CVEs need to pop up before you dumb niggers realize that it's a swiss cheese operating system with more holes than a beehive?

>>60506690
You do realize that you are in the wrong thread, right?

>>60506687
Only on unupdated systems ;^^^^)

>>60506620
Sounds like you are a shitty programmer then. Most shit are done with high level languages calling libraries when needed. You are probably trying to reinvent the wheel and failing at it at the same time.

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>>60505902
>Rust
into the trash it goes

>>60506654
>It gets slower and slower every year
Ugh, no. You probably meant iOS.

>>60506690
>How many of these silly Linux CVEs need to pop up
Eh? The source being open, many more researchers are actually reviewing the code. Linux is getting more secure one CVE at a time. Where as windows...
Even google gets fed up that MS is not patching the exploits and publishes them to the public.

Linux fixes CVEs, Windows hoards CVEs until someone finds it out

>>60506709
That's good, I'd rather not waste 4 hours a day updating system

>>60506442
t. retard

>>60506715
Very well thought out post anon. It's very well structured and consists of properly backed arguments that one cannot refute. Perfectly appealing for /g/

>>60506727
This fallacy again
If the source is always open, why the fuck so many vulnerabilities appear so often? Are lintards utterly incompetent?

>>60506727
>Linux
>getting more secure
At the rate they keep adding "features" and shit to it, no it isn't.

>>60506775
>If the source is always open, why the fuck so many vulnerabilities appear so often?
Because people are studying and finding exploits? Is it too hard to understand?

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>>60505805
Little to do with C, everything to do with monolithic design.

As long as the kernel is basically megabytes of object code running in supervisor mode, bugs like this will keep popping up. You simply can't make something that big bug-free.

This is ignoring Linus doesn't give a fuck about security. Best workaround until serious OSs based on seL4 such as Genode are ready for general use is to do what all "masturbating monkeys" (Linus dixit) do. Run Openbsd.

>>60506775
Anon, you DO realize you are in the wrong thread, right?
You DO realize this thread is for autistic programmers, right?

Have you ever felt you don't belong somewhere before?
Now is the time.

>>60506536
>>Rust toddlers need IDEs to fix their syntax errors
I don't use an IDE.

>>Rust toddlers need compilers to fix their logic errors
And apparently C fags could use that too.

>>Rust togglers need languages to collect their garbage
Fucking retard, Rust doesn't have a GC, it uses RAII like C++ does.

>>60506784
>Is it too hard to understand?
just give up, the level of intelligence of /g/ is somewhere between /v/ and /pol/. Whether /pol/ or /v/ is smarter I don't know.

>>60506814
True

>>60506784
And what is stopping the NSA from finding these exploits before you lincucks and not telling anyone?

>>60506618
Give me a single reason why brainfuck can't fulfill all of your programming needs.

>>60506829
How is that any different to windows, you dumb faggot. Just go back to your graphics card thread.

>>60506775
> Are lintards utterly incompetent?
I'd say they're a mixture of the best programmers various companies have, and then also more average ones from many other companies.

Do you think we have more competent programmers stashed away somewhere?

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>>60506814
>somewhere between /v/ and /pol/

>>60506711
You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

>>60506536
There is no Rust IDE yet you retard.

>>60506829
NSA finds exploits tells no one. (They also buy backdoors from MS too and MS keeps it alive until contract finishes)
NSA and other people finds exploits in Linux and other people post CVEs

>>60506838
>How is that any different to windows, you dumb faggot
exactly, how is open source any different than windows?

>>60506849
You keep telling yourself that.

Maybe when you grow up, you can learn efficient problem solving and not fail at optimizing things in C when it is not needed. I bet your projects are a cesspool of shitty code. Have fun with them

>>60506862
Because, anyone can review sources and detect exploits. This is why CVE lists exist, moron

is it really that bad? i dont want to lose my uptimes

>>60506854
Visual Rust

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It's funny how whenever Rust is brought up, no one can come up with any actual arguments against the language, and when they do, they are almost always wrong due to not knowing a thing about Rust other than memes.

Literally all they can spout is "m-muh SJWs XDDD". Rust is a systems programming language for straight white men.

>>60506893
No. it's not bad. Just update your shit and you are done

>>60506897
This, quite essentially

>>60506848
Case on point

>>60506887
But if they can do it, why does it keep getting found 20 years later? You think all those neckbeards looking for them would find them faster..

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>>60506769
thanks anon

>>60506919
That's mainly an issue with C, hence welcome to my thread

>>60506769
kek

>>60506795
https://marc.info/?l=oss-security&w=2&r=1&s=openbsd&q=b

>>60506848
it's literally just /v/ pretending to know about tech but ending up asking for help, and /pol/ pretending to know about tech but pushing political agendas, and neither side realizes how fucking stupid and incompetent they come across. the b8 comes off as equally as stupid

>>60506795
>You simply can't make something that big bug-free.
In C*

>>60506842
Microsoft seems to have plenty.

>>60506919
Anon, that's because it's not only Microsoft that is examining their own codebase, many other companies and their employees and hobbyists do it as well :)

>>60506784
So the source is always available to NSA and KGB?

>>60506919
because C makes it easy to have undefined behavior. please stop arguing and instead understand why rust exists in the first place. rust is the solution to your arguments and you don't even know that

>>60506974
Every OS's source is available to the NSA. KGB does not exist

>>60506887
I guess that's why shellshock is detected immediately
lmao

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>tfw white male and want to use rust but don't want to beaten down by ski mask baseball bat antifa crowd

What should I do bros?

>>60506973
Google finds MS exploits and tell them all the time, whats the difference?
Open source allows people to find exploits easier but also allows everyone, including criminals from finding more expoits.
Close source means everyone, including criminals less chance to find exploits.
There is literally no difference.

>>60506997
Straight white male here who uses Rust.
You're safe.

>>60506997
stop being a degenerate and make your own rust compiler that is free from mozilla influence

>>60506971
Plenty, eh?

https://www.cvedetails.com/vulnerability-list/vendor_id-26/Microsoft.html

> 1915 vulnerabilities with score higher than 9,

>>60507001
>Google finds MS exploits and tell them all the time, whats the difference?
>whats the difference?
Google gets fed up and publishes the bug so that prompts MS to actually fix the bug

>Open source allows people to find exploits easier but also allows everyone, including criminals from finding more expoits.
That's not how it works. (See: wannacry, atom-table exploit, UEFI golden key etc)

>>60506849
Fuck off

>>60506881
C is not the only language I use you imbecile. Stop posting already, you're full of hot air. The last simulation we did took 8 days to complete. The median time is 2 weeks. We need all the optimisation we can get. I know full well when optimisation is required and when it is a waste of time.

Ever heard the saying "don't teach your grandma how to suck eggs"? This applies to you right now. You can keep writing your toys.

>>60507001
>Google finds MS exploits and tell them all the time, whats the difference?
Does it really work though?
http://resources.infosecinstitute.com/microsoft-fails-patch-flaw-gdi-library-google-publishes-poc-exploit/
I'm pretty convinced MS was hoarding this exploit because they had contracts with three letter agencies

>>60506926
How can open source be perfect if the language can sink it? Linux is open source which means it can't have exploits no matter the language, because a million eyes are scouring the code 24/7 to make sure there are none. You're telling me this is a lie?

>>60506897
It's funny how whenever Rust is brought up, all anyone can do to prop it up is memepost.

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>>60506935
And that's the whole openbsd, not just the kernel.

It's really telling when it's this much better. Only two remote holes in like forever?

>>60507071
You can purposefully take bad decisions in an open source project. Open source won't solve that problem

>>60507071
>Linux is open source which means it can't have exploits no matter the language
why are you so stupid that you have to strawman? The idea is that you have FEWER exploits. if this isn't bait WHY ARE YOU SO STUPID. if this is bait why are you wasting your time?

>>60507071
>if the language can sink it?
Language has nothing to do with Open source/close source debate

>>60506897
see
>>60506848
>>60506937

>>60507098
He probably realized by now that he's in the wrong place. This thread is not for underage kids and their epic windows vs linux or closed vs open source battle.

This thread addresses a very precise and accurate issue.

>>60507023
425 "products" many of which are combined.
Linux has 15 products and has 120 with a score higher than 9. So it's 4.5 per product (far less in truth) vs 8.

>>60507221
Microsoft developers, everyone

>>60507169
I can't tell if it's underage pajeets or actual bait, but either way it makes me physically convulse reading the arguments and how wrong they are

>>60507095
Million eyes, bud. It is literally impossible to have a bad choice that isn't known and patched within minutes.

>>60507221
If you realized your arguments are quite invalid (hopefully by now) please consider reading this article
http://www.garin.io/rust-vs-c-pitfalls (if you are not a progdrammer) or http://cantrip.org/rust-vs-c++.html (if you are a programmer)

Learn what this tread is about

>>60507115
Linux is open source which means it is free of exploits no matter what. Only closed source can possibly have exploits as it doesn't have a million eyes checking it and is limited to only the skill/trustworthiness of the devs, and they have nothing on a million eyes.

this is a result of shitty overcomplicated spaghetti code, nothing to do with the flaws of c

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>>60505805
>the Jews are responsible for this exploit, we need to ban C
Go home /pol/, you're drunk.

>>60507280
There are no pitfalls that a million eyes can't find. That's the beauty of open source. It's immune to this sort of thing.

>>60506881
>when it is not needed
>kernel and device drivers
Brah. I'm sure you'd love to have a C# operating system but unless if we can make processors out of something other than matter we won't get there.

>>60507296
Why is she always unimpressed?

>>60505902
rust has some decent ideas but horrid syntax and a cancerous user base.

anything that seriously wants to replace C needs to find ways to provide Rust-level safety semantics in a much cleaner and minimalistic way, rather than littering every goddamn method signature with reference lifetime annotations.

>>60507349
>rather than littering every goddamn method signature with reference lifetime annotations.
another comment that comes off as ignorant. Rust has lifetime elision and they recently added more

>>60507239
>Million eyes, bud. It is literally impossible to have a bad choice that isn't known and patched within minutes.
Moron, there's counterevidence in that. This bug, and every bug found in any open source project.

>>60505805
wut animu is this pic from? google shows more 4chan threads

>>60507239
>within minutes
>20 year old exploits in Bash
Oh now I'm laffin.

>>60507403
you literally are too autistic to detect sarcasm

>>60507388
well maybe if they didn't want people to have negative opinions they should have waited a bit longer before shifting into 200% shill overdrive.

>>60507349
>anything that seriously wants to replace C needs to find ways to provide Rust-level safety semantics in a much cleaner and minimalistic way
That thing has existed for decades. It's called Ada.

>>60507429
the rust community actually explicitly tells people not to evangelize or shill rust, it's just the people outside of the community that do that like on /g/

but you also wouldn't know that

>>60507460
> citing inner circle bullshit policies
> slighting others on 4chins for not knowing about said circle-jerk club happenings

what point are you trying to make exactly?
when the language first hit the mainstream a year or two ago, I gave it a look.
they should have kept things in stealth mode longer, and you can't blame that on plebbit and /g/ people.

>>60506836
Because I'm not autistic enough.

>>60507292
>>60507456
/thread

>>60507541
>REEE I don't like X because of Y
>Y isn't an issue anymore
>REEE It's not my fault my uneducated opinion on something I don't actively use is wrong, it's YOUR fault
kay

>>60507570
>>60507456
>Ada
>Minimal
>Clean syntax
LOL

>>60507599
>implying

>>60506897
It's funny how Rust shills have no argument against C besides posting anime pictures.

>>60507625
http://www.garin.io/rust-vs-c-pitfalls

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>>60507006
don't trust him anon

>>60507650
>http://www.garin.io/rust-vs-c-pitfalls
See
>>60507456

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What's with the crusade against C lately? Is it because it is a language that requires you to actually do some hard learning instead of Kode with Karlie level coding?

>we have processors with 8 and 16 cores, and 32GB RAM available
>let's try to make efficient and light code because we could achieve amazing speed and efficiency?
>"NO, LET'S USE ALL OF THE RAM AND PROCESSOR!"
>"ALSO I DON'T WANT TO BE ACCOUNTABLE FOR FORGETTING TO free(p)!"

Explains a lot why software nowadays feels a lot slower than software from 10, 15 years ago.

>>60507650
Show me the size of your anime folder.

>>60507698
>Explains a lot why software nowadays feels a lot slower than software from 10, 15 years ago
because you are a nostalgic retard

>>60507698
C actually enables shitty and lazy programmers, anon

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>>60507418
>he can't recognize crops instantly
watch at least 1000 anime before posting

>>60507698
>Explains a lot why software nowadays feels a lot slower than software from 10, 15 years ago.
Upgrade your pentium 4 build, autist

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>>60507707

>>60507707

find ~/Pictures/Anime -type f | wc -l

35

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>>60507698
Yeah look like linux kernel developers have a lot of hard learning to do. fucking retard

>>60507728
That's why companies shouldn't hire shitty and lazy programmers. Because they don't know how to program. If your environment corrects every single mistake you make in your code, that not only reduces flexibility but also stimulates bad coding practices.

I feel like we're building a world where everyone is a fucking pussy. There's not anymore that urge to be the best, to learn, to explore. 2c.

>>60507731
>>60505805
Who is this cute goyim?

>>60507737
>Upgrade your pentium 4 build, autist
What's the difficulty in grasping the idea that only because you have a lot of processing power available, that does not mean your project should use ALL of it?

Is it some sort of self-entitlement?

>>60507770
>he thinks coding is macho
lel, if you don't hunt your own food and build your own house, you are a pussy faggot

>>60507770
>that not only reduces flexibility but also stimulates bad coding practices
>There's not anymore that urge to be the best, to learn, to explore. 2c.
what is wrong with you?

http://blog.burntsushi.net/ripgrep/

>>60507785
>macho
I have not said that at all. In fact I'm one of those /g/ faggots with the rainbow socks and all.

And no logical argument has been raised yet except for "get with the time gramps".

>>60505902
>Rust doesn't have this problem
>It just has all these other problems instead!
okay.

>>60507831
it has compiler rules because with them the language becomes theoretically sound. When you compile a rust program you are ensured that it has no undefined behavior. you could argue that a safe rust program has no bugs, depending on your definition of the term

>>60507785
kek

>>60507804
RIP grep

>>60507831
..That don't allow double free

>>60505902
Wait, so if I get this right. Say I get the result of something and stuff it into variable X, then I want to modify that result and keep the value of X as a baseline, then I have to put X into Y and modify X, because if I put X into Y and modify Y then I can't use X?

>>60507926
No, that's what borrowing is for

>>60507899
might as well make a 100% safe language then. While we are at it let's ban everything that is slightly dangerous. ban knives, forks, even spoons. Cars can't go faster than 10mph. Everything must have round edges so people won't get cut.

>>60505877
>And since C compilers write assembly better than 99% of programmers,
That's only true because most programmers these days don't know assembly well enough to write good assembly code intuitively. People who actually know assembly as their main language can easily do better than compilers, the only real advantage they have is speed.

>>60505902
>Rust doesn't have this problem.
It has others though. No stable ABI, horrendous binary bloat, and doesn't have nearly the portability of C.

>The compiler uses an affine type system to track the ownership of each value: a value can only be used at most once, after which the compiler refuses to use it again.
That's pretty ridiculous though, it basically forces you to write your programs in SSA form, which isn't remotely what most programmers find intuitive.

>>60505947
>We've reached the point where we are not restricted by hardware anymore. 8 cores 16 threads are the new norm. You should notice:
We've also reached the point where we can't even run a word processor while playing flash games from 2008 without experiencing noticeable lag. And 8C/16T are far from the norm. Many people still have 2C/4T. Besides, many algorithms simply can't be efficiently parallelized, so more threads and cores won't save you there.

>>60506198
Running the same code on faster hardware should produce higher execution speed. Since modern software running on today's hardware is slower than old software that did the same thing running on old hardware, that indicates that software has become less efficient.

>>60506525
>ESR
wew

>>60506540
>every line of code you write in Rust destroys white peopluation.
Please explain your reasoning and how you're not a delusional stormcuck.

>>60506618
>VM lang, can't run on bare metal
>has no real presence outside of the Microsoft ecosystem
>unsuitable for anything you actually want to be closed source, since it's trivial to decompile

>>60507961
Knives are to be allowed in the kitchen block
Unsafe codes are to be allowed in the unsafe block :)

>>60507977
>People who actually know assembly as their main language can easily do better than compilers
holy fuck you are retarded

>>60507977
>People who actually know assembly as their main language can easily do better than compilers
That hasn't been the case for about a decade if I'm remembering correctly.

>>60506735
That's why I have an old XP machine, so I have something to mess around with while my real computer is being updated.

>>60506829
Nothing, however since the NSA is only a small fraction of the programmers out there, it's most likely that someone else will find it first.

>>60506980
>KGB does not exist
That's what they want you to think!

>>60507456
Yeah but Ada is unfortunately a language designed for ``other people" and its naming convention is idiotic.

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>>60507977
>>60508013
did he actually fall for the assembly meme?

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>>60507977
>People who actually know assembly as their main language can easily do better than compilers
Jesus

>>60508106
*molests*

>2017
>still writing monolithic kernels in C

>>60505805
Rust is an anti white male language.

>>60507977
>No stable ABI
stable since 1.0, at 1.7 now
>horrendous binary bloat
holy shit do you not understand linking? really? rust can compile to smaller than C code
>doesn't have nearly the portability of C
what does this even mean? rust compiles to LLVM opcodes
>many algorithms simply can't be efficiently parallelized
you can simply parallelize an iterator and get a speed boost, you are just too retarded to realize this

>>60508177
White race must be weak as fuck if a language effects it

>>60508187
The jews fear the white might and are trying to cripple us.

>>60508201
So that's why we fear Rust?

>>60508177
that's like saying C is not free open source software because intel/amd has a proprietary compiler for it. Oh wait there's gcc and LLVM

>>60508186
>holy shit do you not understand linking? really? rust can compile to smaller than C code
Isn't it mainly because of Rust's custom heap allocator? You CAN disable it, but it requires excessive effort, compared to languages that generate reasonably sized binaries by default.

>>60508212
You're not white if you fear rust. Rust will be destroyed because SJWzilla has an agenda.

>>60508212
kek

>>60508232
https://lifthrasiir.github.io/rustlog/why-is-a-rust-executable-large.html

>>60508261
Yeah, so you can't even strip out the bloated allocator if using the stable build of the compiler. That's exactly my point.

>>60508311
if you want to do unstable things then you use unstable rust, what is your point beyond that?

>>60508343
So you will get similar problems, if you need to do ustable code, you will get bugs and security holes, just like C

>>60508368
again, what is your point? very little code in rust needs to be unstable, and if you want to do something unstable it cannot be guaranteed to be safe or stable, by definition.

>>60508397
this

>>60505947
>fundamental concepts such as garbage collection ... are not well supported by popular system languages

You fucking mongoloid, there's no fucking garbage collection in C because there's no garbage to collect. Garbage collection is a fucking crutch for programers who are too scared of memory management, so they have the system take care of it, and the system sucks ass at memory management.

>>60508311
Why is that so necessary for daily users?

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>>60508397
I dont buy the notion of
>very little code in rust needs to be unstable
You are running on the assumption that rust is perfect/near perfect, no language or compiler is or will ever be. So to think that rust is the panacea of the programing world is pretty naive.

>>60508343
I'm saying it's a problem that non-bloated binaries are considered a feature of ``unstable Rust".

>>60508418
It's not ``neccessary", but considering that other languages can produce non-bloated binaries without relying on ``unstable features", it puts Rust at a disadvantage in comparison.

>>60508418
Not necessary for the daily user, but C and possibly rust will be run in a very limited hardware, so he may need small code.

>>60505805
I would normally agree, but kernelspace is one of the few areas where C is ok
This is more of a problem with the programmer and static analasys tools

>>60506795
>Linus doesn't give a fuck about security
he doesn't give a fuck about free software
he doesn't give a fuck about open source
he doesn't give a fuck about nvidia
he doesn't give a fuck about system administration
he doesn't give a fuck about MIT
he doesn't give a fuck about money
he doesn't give a fuck about you
what does he give a fuck about?

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>>60508441
no, I'm operating on the assumption that rust has strong guarantees, which is does, and if those guarantees aren't met then it is merely an ICE that needs to be fixed. Not all things are guaranteed. Some forms of data races and memory leaks are not considered undefined behavior / unsafe. Logic errors are not considered unsafe, but you do have a guarantee you can't have an OOB index, etc.

>>60508456
>it's a problem
wtf does that even mean? how many circles do you need to run around in just to be able to strawman, much less provide an actual problem

>>60506795
Enjoy your FBI backdoor cuck

>>60508508

>no, I'm operating on the assumption that rust has strong guarantees,
That make the code size bloated
>which is does,
Proof please
>Not all things are guaranteed. Some forms of data races and memory leaks are not considered undefined behavior / unsafe. Logic errors are not considered unsafe
So rust is not that amazing, like you make out to be

>>60508558
>That make the code size bloated
do you not understand the concept of zero-cost abstractions and how code size or file size has nothing to do with performance?
>Proof please
what? you want me to do formal proofs of an entire language just to win an argument on the chan? there are people already working on that
>So rust is not that amazing, like you make out to be
LOL.

OpenMEMEsd has an FBI backdoor, linux is still most secure.

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>>60508582
So bloated code is ok, even if it might be used on a limited hw system, because some programers are lazy. And you say how good are the guaranties of rust and yet provide no proof of them.
If you are gonna shilled something and someone ask to prove that what you are saying is right and you blow them off, why should anyone believe you?

Isn't it trivial to prevent double free by using tombstones? It is in fact possible to combine "low level" with "safe", the problem is people assume they can write Java or Python in C and then complain when things don't work the way they intended.

>>60508582
>zero cost abstractions
nothing in life is free and until you learn that you will always be a substandard programmer.
there are no free abstractions, even if they only cost some small amount of compiler and code complexity, which evidently is not the case here because rust makes executables that are way too fucking big, way too fucking bloated (which is not the same thing), and the language is way too fucking complex.
in anticipation of /sci/-tier brainlet memes as your entire argument, simplicity and complexity can't coexist, no matter how smart you think you are.
>proof please
>I'M NOT GONNA DO A FORMAL PROOF OF THE LANGUAGE
yeah because that's what he asked, clearly
i feel like strawmans are evolving into ubiquity
>LOL
i don't like to say this but this is not even remotely an arguement

>>60506769
>it's very well structured
Unlike Rust

>>60508644
>So bloated code is ok
your definition of bloated is arbitrary and based on your opinion
>even if it might be used on a limited hw system
you are free to shim your own std/libc and get your rust code down to smaller binaries than C can. It takes like two lines of code
> And you say how good are the guaranties of rust and yet provide no proof of them
Because I'm not smart enough or dedicated to use formal proof systems that are pretty much the hardest possible thing you can do related to computer software. Just like how I know superposition in quantum mechanics exists but I don't know how to prove it because it's not my field.
> you blow them off
Yup, I blow you and others off because your arguments are either extremely petty or strawmans.

>>60508732
>you are free to shim your own std/libc and get your rust code down to smaller binaries than C can. It takes like two lines of code
Except you have to use the nightly compiler to do it. Which I'm sure differs from the stable compiler in more than just ``like two lines of code".

>>60508722
>nothing in life is free
zero cost abstractions are free :^) and don't act like I don't know where you are trying to go with your strawman
>yeah because that's what he asked, clearly
he simply said prove it, and I said I will not or cannot prove it to the level I assume he is asking me to, which is formally. would you like to give another standard as to which he is asking for?
> i don't like to say this but this is not even remotely an arguement
that's because you gave a fallacious argument, so I didn't bother responding. "It doesn't offer 100% safety and instead only 90% compared to C's 0% safety therefore it is not amazing". Please tell me why I should respond to that with anything other than "LOL".

>>60508768
You seem.to be someone who is not here to convince others to try rust, but to lord over others how amazing the thing you are shilling is and when asked to provide evidence, you strawman, pontificate and even out right get into semantic just to say that rust is better

>>60508748
I'm pretty sure there are plans to be able to do that on stable, but I could be wrong. I know rustc has worked in direct redox libstd/libc abi support and that goes a long way for having a generic abi that can be stabilized
>>60508802
Buddy, you're in a rust shill thread. Have you forgotten where you are? I'm responding to strawmans against rust, that's all. If you want to take that as elitism you're free to do so

>>60508827
Fuck (((C))) shill, rust is the future.

>>60505805

I swear I tried reading all of the thread, and yet I can't spot how is this a problem of C rather than a problem of programmers. Why should I switch to a language simply because I can't keep up with 500000000000 lines of code?

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>>60508768
>nothing in life is free
>free things are free!
don't need to strawman when you're making yourself look stupid

>i cannot prove it to the level i assume he is asking for
using a strawman as reasoning for not providing an argument when questioned on a statement that you yourself admitted is an assumption and then immediately tried to pass it as truth is not an argument.
pic partially related, could not find original.

>that's because you gave a fallacious argument
wasn't me, not that it matters
>so i didn't bother responding
>please tell me why i should respond with anything other than mocking to something that i disagree with
because you'll have an argument that way?
maybe you don't quite get how this works, if you have a fucking point you should use it instead of looking like a retard in front of people who don't necessarily agree with you.

would like to remind you all that rust requires a compiler/vm written in c++, as no other options exist.
if rust bootstraps itself and proves it can be as sane as c++ (which it fucking well should be able to do), it would have a vastly greater chance at winning over the "academics who think that they are too smart for simplicity" audience.

>>60506665
underrated post

>>60507977
>We've also reached the point where we can't even run a word processor while playing flash games from 2008 without experiencing noticeable lag.

This. It's ridiculous a 4GB system with a dual core lags with a word processor and some video going on. It's called shitty programming.

Looking at you, Javascript/Java/C#.

Go is better than C and somewhat better than Rust. It's generally faster and less prone to these kind of C holes. I don't know why you are pushing Rust so hard, anons, but Go is the better solution. A lot more portable than Rust, too.

>>60509002
nah go isn't that portable
i do like it though
it's not really competing with c, but it is with rust, regardless of the dipshits who think that OS development is primetime for a language with more abstraction layers than you can count.

>>60508950
>don't need to strawman when you're making yourself look stupid
what I DON'T need to do is argue the definition of what a free-cost abstraction means. Why would I let myself be baited into that pointless argument?
>using a strawman as reasoning for not providing an argument
again, you're not answering my question but just trying to tell me that I'm strawmanning. To what level do you expect me to be able to prove the guarantees? If it's not very high I can just direct you to RTFM. I assume you're not going to do that because this isn't reddit and am not going to write a 5000 word essay for upvotes.
>because you'll have an argument that way?
again, why would I bother to answer RTFM type questions? on 4chan especially? with people I don't give much of a shit about?
>if rust bootstraps itself and proves it can be as sane as c++
It has, it just doesn't fully implement libc because that would be a lot of extra development effort that would be a waste of time. Although, redox already has and they are working on being 100% self hosted. It already has proven itself to be as capable/sane as C++ with the projects that have been produced by it and the theory behind it, but if you need to be proven that with a reimplementation of LLVM... well you can go fuck right off

>>60506795
cute umi

>C is bad because it lets you do bad things on the hardware level
Ban Von Neumann architecture

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>>60509063
free-cost abstractions don't exist because nothing is free.
i guess i need to spell it out, but you're *free* to give up.
you lose simplicity at the bare minimum, and many, many require vastly more than that.
"free" only referring to runtime cost is stupid, because by that definition, we should just be glad we have a syntax for infix arithmetic operations and function definition and calling, and use tested gotos and loop with pointers. there's no perfect medium.
>you're not answering my question
your exact phrasing being "would you like to provide ..", and, no, i would not.
yes, i'm not, because it was a fallacious question, you know very well what he wants you to say because otherwise you couldn't have an assumption as to it, and, by your own admission, you assume what he wants is outside of the scope of effort you are willing to put in.
>i am not going to attempt to make a point because that's reddit
really elicits neuron firing
how about you make a point and stop complaining about having to
>why would i bother to have an argument
i don't know, why live?
maybe you'll look more intelligent to people you don't know.

writing a compiler for your language in your language would most definitely be a good way to prove to me that it is not trash, yes, and i am not currently impressed with anything else written in rust.
>go fuck right off
you're not very nice, you know that?

>>60509272
>free-cost abstractions don't exist because nothing is free.
they do exist, but you seem to want to redefine the word free/zero in the phrase, which was what I didn't want to deal with getting involved with in the first place. It's a STUPID argument. You don't get to redefine a descriptor based on being pedantic about a word, and then go on to try to have an argument about it that you'll think I'll entertain. If you want me to be nice then stop trying to have arguments with me that you KNOW is stupid, but you're only doing because you are bored
>you know very well what he wants you to say
>because otherwise you couldn't have an assumption as to it
an assumption implies that I don't actually know, but have an educated guess about. that's not an admission of anything. regardless, I don't understand where you are trying to go with this, or how you answered the question. is my argument fallacious, or his? I'm guessing you'll say both and if you do then my answer is simply "okay".
>how about you make a point and stop complaining about having to
because your arguments are boring and you are boring by extension
>writing a compiler for your language in your language
the rust compiler is arguably more interesting and difficult than a normal bytecode compiler, but alright. It just doesn't do the final step for portability/time reasons.
>you're not very nice
die in a fire

>>60505805
Why not just use a safe C implementation and stop whining asshole?

>Safe C? But that's so slow!
>I know! Let's use an even slower replacement!

Even gcc and clang allow you to compile code without UB, why don't you?

>>60505902

fn jews(i : i32) {
  let mut array: [i32; 3] = [0; 3];
  array[i] = 2;
}
fn main() {
  jews(5);
}

Rust is unsafe, kill yourself.

Also, it's syntax is extremely shitty and its lack of implicit typing is cancerous.

>>60505902
>This, notably, prevents the dreaded double-free regularly encountered in C or C++ (prior to smart pointers).
This only happens if you're a diversity hire like most Rustfags

>>60507302
There is an operating system running on C#.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singularity_(operating_system)

>>60507302
Are you a tard?

>>60505902
Im not saying "let" every time I want to do something. You can go fuck yourself right now.

>>60505805
You know what C is good for.

C is good for solving small problems one at a time with great attention to detail.

You know what C is not good for

Cobbling together some piece of shit monolithic system like Linux.

>>60509718
That doesn't even compile you fucking fucktard

>>60509882
>You know what C is good for.
Yes, nothing

>>60510090
>That doesn't even compile
There is probably some syntactical error there, I am not willing to install the rust compiler on my thinkpad in order to test it. The point remains the same however.

>>60510117
Nice damage control

>>60510117
https://play.rust-lang.org/?gist=cad60d18e29556d85f86a6311cbec353&version=stable&backtrace=0

Yeah, there's an error because rust does not allow you to do OOB indexing and it refuses to compile

>>60510117
>Can't write 5 lines of Rust
>"Hurr durr rust isn't safe xDD"
Fucking poorfag autist

>>60510123
Huh? I am unsure what paint you are trying to make.

>>60510124
No, this is not the error. The error is that I used i32 instead of usize.
Here you go

fn jews(i : usize) {
  let mut array: [i32; 3] = [0; 3];
  array[i] = 2;
}
fn main() {
  jews(5);
}

>>60510131
I admit that I am not the most proficient man in the world for rust as I assumed that arrays get i32 instead of usize for indexes. However I don't think that this is an answer to my argument.

>>60505902
>Rust doesn't have this problem
Rust have platform supporting problem, because llvm is shit.

>>60505805
>Remember when C was invented half a century ago,
The other half must be newer.

>>60505902
You know what Rust can't reliably do? Pass all tests on FreeBSD. Or OpenBSD.
Fuck off.

>>60507082
It tells me they fucked up their openssl fork. Total nih syndrome combined with zero support from 3rd parties. If you want security and don't want to bankrupt due to brake down randomly, use hardened linux or freebsd.

>>60506795
>Little to do with C, everything to do with monolithic design.
This

>Best workaround until serious OSs based on seL4 such as Genode are ready for general use is to do what all "masturbating monkeys" (Linus dixit) do. Run Openbsd.
Not this, OpenBSD, SeL4 and Genode are shit.

>>60510144
>No, this is not the error.
yeah, this should be checked with a linter mostly. Clippy will catch that but the rust compiler lets it through. With rust it will warn/error during compilation if you use a constant and then panic on runtime if you use a variable.

otherwise it's impossible to OOB because normally you work with iterators, and you can't OOB on a vec.

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>>60505805
>This exploit has scored 10/10 CVSS score.
wow. if i'm attacked i have to restart the system. C and Linux totally BTFO.

>>60510237
Same can be said for any language.

>>60510203
wtf?

>>60510247
>Same can be said for any language.
yes but other languages don't panic by default and can or will continue running after an OOB access, which is 1000x worse

there's room for improvement there for sure, maybe something similar to unreachable code branches?

>>60510247
>C
>Vectors

>>60510240
It will kill the download of your chinese cartoon porn that you were trying to download via dialup for the past month.

>>60510144
>Panics
What's wrong again?

>>60510257
>other languages don't panic by default
This is an implementation property.
Instead of changing languages, just put on a flag on your gcc.

>>60510263
That it allows it to compile.

>>60510261
wtf i hate c.

>>60510275
>That it allows it to compile.
Which doesn't give you FALSE values instead of panicking and closing the program

>>60510275
or you know, I'll keep using rust for the thousand other reasons I use it?

not sure how you're going about your gymnastics. "Instead of changing your language so you can get panic by default, you can just add a flag to your gcc". What the fuck? No one switched to rust just so they can have panic by default.

>>60510285
Giving you false values is not necessarily worse. You probably would not mind if the wing of your airplane turned 0.01 degree less but you would mind if the rust program that it runs on crashed.
The best would be to use a language that never gives you false values nor crashes.

>>60510310
>Giving you false values is not necessarily worse.
Stopped reading right there

>>60510310
Jesus christ, these are the people that defend C

>>60510310
>Said like a person that doesn't know about the Patriot missile issue.

>>60510310
>What is error handling
>You probably would not mind if the wing of your airplane turned 0.01 degree less
wow

>>60510298
>or you know, I'll keep using rust for the thousand other reasons I use it?
People all the time say "switch to rust, it's safe kid" while the solution is to just put up a flag in your gcc compilation.

>No one switched to rust just so they can have panic by default.
Didn't they get memed to switch to it for "safety"?

>>60510323
Crashing your program is unacceptable.

>>60510328
I do not defend C, I prefer languages that have proper type systems.

>>60510335
>What is error handling
Something irrelevant to the discussion.

>You probably would not mind if the wing of your airplane turned 0.01 degree less
How is this false? Or more like, how is this worse than the wing becoming unusable?

>>60510310
>The best would be to use a language that never gives you false values nor crashes.
so uh, rust?
top kek

>>60510349
>What is error handling

>>60510350
>so uh, rust?
No, as you can in the example before it crashes.

>inb4 panics are not crashes
They are the same thing. Something which is not supposed to happen, happens. Just use a language where such retardness does not exists.

>>60510358
Something irrelevant to the discussion?

>>60510349
Have you actually written any program in your life? Be honest.

>>60510371
You must be one of those F(((P))) autists not knowing what error handling does

>>60510372
Sure? Why are you asking?

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>>60510310
>You probably would not mind if the wing of your airplane turned 0.01 degree less

Please do not let this man anywhere near anything that someone's life depends on.

>>60510360
>rust protects against 99% of common undefined behavior but my edge case that no one ever really does and is caught by a linter is a reason to not use rust
I'm honestly stunned.

>>60510310
Perma NEET high schooler spotted

>>60510384
Do you know what undefined behavior means?

>>60510332
Can someone make a Feels Guy with a flag that says Floating Point with him cry/mad?

>>60510380
>Lying in the internet

>>60510379
I am unsure what the point that you are trying to make is. Are you planing to become more clear?

>>60510381
Are you claiming that having an unusable wing would be better?

>>60510384
>>rust protects against 99% of common undefined behavior
False, as you can see in the example before. OOB is one of the most common cases of UB in C.

>>60510391
Phd student actually.

Stop replying to him, he's trolling and you know it

>>60510403
>OOB is one of the most common cases of UB in C.
you cannot OOB with a vector in rust, and slices are rarely used. Maybe for C you can use that argument, but not for rust.

>>60510403
Do you seriously not understand?

In any sort of system, bad data is much harder to work around than a blatant failure.
I'd rather the flight computer shut down mid flight than fly off heading for 1000 miles and end up in buttfuck texas vs denver.

>>60510403
>Phd
>Doesn't know a thing about error handling
The power of American institution these days

>>60510438
>PHd
>"False data is okay"
>I don't know to handle exceptions, it's bad

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>>60510403
>>60510310
You chose this future

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>>60506011
>Thinking this so much as even constitutes trolling

>>60510428
Kill yourself.

>hurrr he disagrees with me so he should be trolling!!
Yeah, enjoy your meme "safe" language, faggot.

>>60510431
>you cannot OOB with a vector in rust
Here you go:

fn jews(i : usize) -> i32 {
  let v = vec![0, 2, 4, 6];
  return v[6i;
}
fn main() {
  jews(9);
}

>>60510432
I am simply saying that getting wrong results is not necessarily worse if the system can continue working in some cases. In most cases it probably is however.
As I said before, the best is to both have the system working and not have false data, which is why you should use a language with a proper type system.

>>60510438
Repeating the same things without trying to make your point clear will not get you anywhere.

>>60510458
Hm? Are you claiming that I am wrong? If so, would you mind reasoning about it?

>>60510472
oops
>return v[6i;
return v[i];

>C air plane
>Gets bad data
>Lands in N Korea instead of Japan
>Blows up wings and all 400 passengers

>Rust plane
>Gets panic while parsing data
>Exception detected
>Back up engine online
>Safe landing

@60510472
You are trying too hard to fish all that (you)s. You may even be false flagging C users.

>>60510478
yeah, I fixed it. why the fuck is it letting you index into a vector

>>60510483
>C air plane
>Gets bad data
>Used the gcc flag that enabled the memory sanitised because wasn't a retard (but was retarded enough to use C or Rust or other shitty languages on a fucking plane)
>Exception detected
>Back up engine online
>Safe landing

>>60510472
Learn how error handling works

>>60510472
Can you define a type with a specific range in rust?

>Used the gcc flag that enabled the memory sanitised magically
Oh the level of bait.

>>60510478
this is how you write idiomatic rust

fn main() {
  let v = vec![1, 2, 3];
  match v.get(7) {
    Some(x) => println!("Item 7 is {}", x),
    None => println!("Sorry, this vector is too short.")
  }
}

>>60510510
>He doesn't enable that one GCC flag that turns OOB access into optimal maximum value

>>60510514
>Actually replying to trolls

>>60510529
it bumps the thread

>>60510540
We're at bump limit, senpai.

>>60510519
What are you on about?

>>60510495
You should learn to provide proper counter-arguments when you disagree with something instead of acting like a whiny child.

>>60510504
For the last time
>Repeating the same things without trying to make your point clear will not get you anywhere.

I really do not think that error handling has much to do with OOB.

>>60510510
Not to my knowledge, maybe they changed that however.
I know that you can do it in Ada.

>>60510513
>magically
There is no magic in this world anon. To retards everything can seem as magic however.

-g -Og -Wall -fsanitize=undefined -fsanitize=address -fno-omit-frame-pointer -D_FORTIFY_SOURCE=1

I think it needs gcc 4.8+

>>60510514
Does not change my point that Rust is an unsafe language.
In fact, you can do the same in every single language, even in C with a library.

>>60510519
What?

>>60510529
>He disagrees with me so I will call him a troll without providing any argument.

>>60510540
You really a re a retard, huh?

>>60510558
>Not to my knowledge
I asked because I like Ada. That's a deal breaker, tbqh.

>>60510571
Ada is really cool. I want to try SPARK sometime as I hear that it adds some nice stuff on it.

>>60507460
>the rust community actually explicitly tells people not to evangelize or shill
I'm calling bullshit. That's precisely what they do, it's a long march through the development communities.

>>60510558
There is also -fcheck-pointer-bounds but needs MPX

>>60510585
Spark is nice, I even got the new book on it. Too bad it's notparticularity useful for solo projects.

>>60510615
Which book?

>>60510587
https://www.reddit.com/r/rust/comments/62gzio/psa_please_stop_asking_other_projects_to_convert/

it's on the sidebar as well, niggers don't even allow memes

>>60510621
Building high integrity applications in SPARK

>>60510631
Thank you! I think that my uni had it at the list of suggested books for a MEng module about safe programming or something.
I will check it one of these days.

Like it's been already mentioned, Rust is trying to reinvent the wheel. Now, how much is Mozilla paying you to shill Rust here?

>>60510667
0.00001 BTC/post

>>60507731
Hmm, would be nice if you gave a name. Still nothing pops up.

Though yeah, didn't realize it was 'shopped

>>60510558
Where did all these rust shills go to? Did they disappeared off the thread after the got BTFO?

>>60510514
Ahahaha C apologist eternally BTFO
>>60510558
>Controlling damage this hard
Nice try NSA

>>60511597
0.00001 BTC have been deposited into your account.

>>60505805

C++ already has ownership semantics. Double free doesn't exist in idiomatic C++ because explicit free/malloc doesn't exist in idiomatic C++.

>>60505805
wait, what the fuck? why is no one talking about this exploit anywhere? why is there no elaboration on exactly what it does or which kernel versions it affects? t says "through 4.10.15", does that mean only 4.x or does it also affect 3.x? how do I know if I'm safe on CentOS?
Fuck this shit, this kind of bullshit makes me want to retire early

>>60506623
>So some overheads are not avoidable? Who knew?
great job moving the goalposts