Is 64-bit software a meme?

>>60249576
with 32bit you can't access more than 4gig of ram, maybe you're just using useless shit software.

>>60249576
just use 32 bit OS then

>>60249576
does 32bit still exist? I think in this day and age 2GB ram is more expensive than 4GB.

>>60249616
But why would CCleaner need 16 GiB of memory to clean my junk?

Anything which uses RAM proportional to the activities it's performing. I'm not sure about the "good" applications but that opens the door for any possible ones. Got a good reason to have enough browser tabs open to consume a dozen gigabytes of RAM? Enjoy.

>>60249576
Yes, your eye can't see 64-bit.

3D or video editing software which will use more than 2GB memory

>barely found any difference whatsoever goind from 32 to 64 bit software

you bought a computer just for web browsing?

>>60249576
Also anything which uses 64 integers in algorithms.

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64 bit is a meme and unnecessary
no program should realistically need more than 2GB or ram

Now even embedded devices (phones) have 64b micros

>>60249644
Kill yourself, you dumb fucking shit smear.

>>60249576
I need 64 bit integers for genome analysis. Like if I want to calculate something for the entire human genome which is 3,000,000,000 base pairs

>>60249695
See this>>60249713
Some programs require nearly 24GB of RAM to execute in reasonable time for scientific research.

Every fucking robot that moves around have 64b, in 10 years your fridge will have one

>>60249644
Is not about the OS, is about the software. Near everything now has a 64-bit version and is rather ridiculous. Even the simplest programs come on 64-bit and I fail to see any improvement or need to take over 4 GB of memory from them.

Unless they have memory leaks and developers decide they have to take it all instead of 4. So a 64-bit version leaks better.

>>60249717
> need 64 bit
> 3,000,000,000
3,000,000,000 can be represented by an unsigned 32 bit integer

>>60249576
Is OP being a fucking faggot a meme?

>>60249695
dumb anime poster

>>60249576
x86_64 enables more than the 32bit mode. more and more capable registers etc

on gentoo there hasn't been much of a reason not to use 64bit binaries by default for like a decade now

even if not all are noticeably faster in all usage patterns there just is no fucking point in sticking with 32bit mode except in special corcumstances

>>60249576
You are clearly not the target of higher end computers - when i shitpost or jsut browse web, 2gb and dualcore 1.3ghz cpu is enough, and i have a small laptop to do this. But when i need to work, suddenly i need 64gb of ram, and a lot of processing cores, so thats where 64bit comes to play. (before any autostic screams that you can have multiple cores on 32bit - i know).

32bit apps are constrained to the 32bit instruction set.
For well constructed applications it makes a huge difference.
There's not that many well built applications around so in general it doesn't make that big a difference.

The ram limit is the most noticeable effect right now.

I'm in general support for 64-bit, the only argument I've seen in support of 32-bit is the instructions and data accessed can be cached much more effectively.

Has to do with instruction length and data length.

>>60249807
>on gentoo there hasn't been much of a reason not to use 64bit binaries

Well OP clearly asked for real world applications.

>>60249742
ay, my bad, yah, on the progrma level it doesn't make sense to use 64bit unless absolutely necessary.

>>60249713
are you poor?

>>60249849
Some other distro powering his daily mongolian loli cartoon streamings then.

>>60249576
Personally, I think 32-bit OSes are useful when your machine supports up to 4GB of RAM or less.

>>60249882
Yea, it does. General purpose CPU registers go from 8 to 16 in 64 bit mode and more.

Oh you probably bought 50x more processing power than you need, but that doesn't really count...

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>>60249920
>tfw I installed Windows 10 Pro 64-bit to a friend
>athlon 3200+
>2 GB of RAM
>iGPU

>>60249997
>Oh you probably bought 50x more processing power than you need, but that doesn't really count...
What did you mean by this?

>>60249695
640K ought to be enough for anybody.

>>60249738
not only for scientific research:

have a couple machines that run stuff from http://www.iris.co.uk/

with i think 256gb ram per node and we have 4 of those

>>60250004
>athlon 3200+
>Windows 10
What even is the point? An athlon 3200+ can't do jack shit these days.

>>60250028
That is why most people do not notice any difference.

There is no need for, or any perception of, more efficient execution on 64bit taking place on machine that has eight cores to do a billion^2 calculations each core plus a GPU over ten times as fast for floating point maths, if it is just used to watch one young girl cartoon and all delay in that is due to IO.

>>60250142
He wanted Windows 10. So I gave it to him.

He is definitely complaining more about the sluggish of his system.

>>60250201
He should at least have a Core 2 Duo (a Conroe or a Wolfdale would be nice) and 4GB of RAM.

>>60250201
What was he running previously? Unless he's ready to upgrade he should honestly stick to that until he is. I had an athlon 3200+ myself and even with a dedicated GPU its performance was unbearable.

I could literally max out the cpu simply by moving the mouse.

>>60250258
Windows 7. I really didn't want to argue. I told him once that he should stay on 7 while he buys anything better. But he wanted 10 so... His problem.

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I fell for the 32bit now how do I get my 1gb back?

>>60250308
Friends don't let friends install Win10

>>60250750
You can't use the memory for applications, but Gavotte RAMDisk can run with PAE and use memory above your 3GB. This can be used as a straight up RAM disk, use it for a pagefile, etc.

>>60251474
pagefile on a RAM disk?

>>60250750
Install Gentoo

>>60251491
It sounds counter intuitive, but sure.

It's probably also worth considering doing it if you use a RAM disk and you're one of those autists that even with 16GB+ of memory still enables a small pagefile because it makes things "unstable" without it.

Yes, it's a meme but having to look for shit in Program Files and Program Files (x86) when trying to locate an exe is annoying so

There are plenty of x86-64 only vidya these days and I think this board is full of gaymens.

>>60249576
When 99% of the software becomes 64 bits.

Intel and AMD could simply remove the 32 bits compatibility parts and use those free silicon space to cut costs or to make the processor more powerful.

>>60249695
>Limited to than 3.5GB of assets

If you want graphics to be stuck in 2008 forever, sure.

>>60252472
Intel tried doing this shit with Itanium. Thank AMD for x86-64

>>60249644
The bank I work for requires the installation of a 32bit OS for some computers. There are still very old programs being used that won't work on 64bit.

TEMPLE OS

>>60249616
>software using more than 4GB
>useful

>>60249695
no one should realistically need more than 512mb of RAM and a 30hz 640x480 monitor. technology is a meme. i'm funny because I hate technology on a technology board and post anime gifs.

>>60255238
>512mb of RAM
sure
>640x480 monitor
sure
>30hz
what the fuck

>>60255145
>jobless, the post
I work as an electrical engineer in a consultancy. Pretty much anything from autodesk uses more than 4GB on shit tons of our projects. But I guess if you don't like buildings or other public works then I guess that software is useless.

>>60249576
It makes a very significant difference for Firefox, but honestly I don't understand what you mean by regular stuff.

Having a 64bit address space is useful for ASLR as you can map memory pretty much anywhere.

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64 bit is not a meme, it's straight up better. There is no reason to cling to archaic standards.Not all things need 64-bit, but there are a few things that really do benefit from it (vidya.) There's literally no reason no to go to it unless your a poorfag who can't afford modern infrastructure.

>>60249616
i thought it was more than 2 gig ram? only reason I didn't top off my old laptop to 4 gigs was my computer guy friend told me "don't bother going higher than 2 gigs if you're shits 32 bit"

>>60255238
really it's all you need for gaming

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>>60249576
The only reason 64-bit exists it's just because of the Year 2038 Problem.

>>60255145
okay basement linux user

>>60249695

Do you know how shitty things function when you're trying to search through 30k or 40k items at a time?

Then trying to apply a change to all 40k items?

I'll stick with x64 thanks

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Nintendo 64 came out in 1996.
21 years later PCs are only just catching up and some people still argue that they don't need 64-bit
It's tragic really

>>60253859
Isn't 64 bit compatible with 32 bit programs? Can you give example on programs that won't run on a 32 bit OS?

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>>60255238

>>60257449
64 bit is only 32-bit compatible if you want it to be that way. The only reason you can run 32 bit programs with a 64 bit Intel/AMD processor is because they have backwards compatibility.

In the case of an envrionment like an OS it's basically the same. Windows is backwards compatible when it comes to architectures, but Linux distros tend to be 64-bit only envrionments until you enable 32-bit.

>>60257449
16-bit programs.

>>60257444
I hope you're only pretending to be retarded.

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>>60249695
Please stop making retarded posts and attaching anime images to them, it makes us anime posters look dumb

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>>60257638
no

>>60257589
[if you couldn't tell already by the picture he posted]

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>>60257522
you can run 16bit windows programs on 64bit linux

>>60257638
You're mentally ill by virtue of being an anime poster in the first place

>>60257589
Don't get mad just because it's true

>>60257444
there were 64bit workstations before AMD64, and there were 64bit servers before those
ps. linux got amd64 support in 2001, before the first cpus for it even came out

>>60255394
also this

I have to use software requiring 16 GB minimum, and that is with intensive caching enabled

Slightly related: does anyone know if the Surface laptop comes with 32-bit windows

If it's 64-bit, can you reformat it with a 32-bit os

The 4GB RAM would run out so quick on 64-bit

The human eye can't see more than 2.99 GB of usable memory.

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>>60255329
faggot

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>>60257638

don't they?

>>60258748
Kill yourself.

>>60249576

DAWs benefit dramatically. Even if it was basic audio tracks being thrown into ram. 40 x 5min tracks would max out 2gb of ram.
>reading them from disk is limiting
In ram, the tracks can be manipulated almost instantly, processed and sent back into ram.

64bit opened the door to having access to all sorts of tools in 'real time'. Simplest case...reversing a track while playing, then reversing it back again. Can read that out of ram almost instantly. Within ms.

What is /PAE even good for if it can't enable memory above 4GB anyway (kinda like HIMEM.SYS would enable memory above 1MB in DOS)?

...
64-bit was a mistake.

/thread

>>60249576
I hope you posted that image ironically.

>>60252472
32bit will never ever go away for as long as x86 CPU's still boot up in 16bit mode, and they will always boot up in 16bit mode for as long as Intel is interested in backwards comparability.

64-bit is just unwieldy. Memory addresses are ridiculously long. Same reason IPv6 has been "taking off" for like a decade and a half and still can't, because hardly anyone wants to deal with those long unwieldy addresses. Computing went mainstream with 32-bit, and it's enough for any basic stuff. Nobody actually need a 64-bit address space, it's 4 billion times a 32-bit address space. It would be enough to implement memory extenders like in the DOS days to get as much above 4GB as needed. Only servers and supercomputers really need 64-bit or more.

>>60249695
>I have never used my computer for anything useful or lucrative.

>disable javascript
>36mb usage
>enable javascript
>250mb usage

YOU CAN'T MAKE THIS SHIT UP

>>60259585
>computers couldn't be and never have been used for anything useful or lucrative before 64-bit became available

>>60258193
waaaait

How did big servers work before that?

>>60259593
Not at all. I can browse most webpages fine with a Pentium II for as long as Javascript is disabled. With it enabled, that computer is brought to a halt by many if not most pages that employ much Javascript.

The optimum is 64-bit mode with 32-bit exes, going 64-bit for those cases where it's needed. Solaris did it this way 20 years ago. Some linux is heading that way with x32, which makes sense more than 64-bit more.

>>60259707
linux has had an x32 abi since 3.4

>>60259764

Who's using it though?

>>60250142
Not too bad actually
Got a 3200+ running lubuntu
Works well enough for browsing

You guys must be using x64 version of LAVFilters when you are watching weeb shows because it's quite faster than x86 one.

>>60250142

Running an AM2 5600+ here, runs nice with FreeBSD 64-bit.

>>60256804
It.s 3.3gb.

>>60249616
You can enable PAE since Windows 2000.

Only some shitty 3rd party drivers shit the bed because of it.
So instead of telling them to fix their shit, Microsoft disabled it by default.

>>60259627
I was totally flabergasted by this. It's not the amount of text, not the amount of images, but the amount of shitty javascript that ruins the web experience for older devices.

>>60258748
MS actually has an FAQ for this

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/2858199/supported-operating-systems-for-surface-pro-4,-surface-pro-3,-surface-pro-2,-surface-pro,-surface-3,-and-surface-book

> Unsupported installation scenarios

> 32-bit operating system support

>>60260113
It's mostly because shitty webpages have either of these facets:

1) so many libraries as you mention, increasing the memory hit. Obvious one really. On low memory machines, this is worse because you end up getting even harder hits due to paging.
SSD helps. Just be sure to use a TRIMming program if the OS has no proper support for it.

2) the JS fucking rapes the DOM.
The DOM is still horribly written and high-as-fuck overhead.
The effects of it have been hidden because of faster machines and instruction hints that optimize around it. There are even ones you can write in JS to state "okay, a graphics operation is about to happen, prepare your anus".
You can tag HTML as things that are going to update regularly in CSS and JS. (some are hidden behind animation functionality)
But on lesser machines, it really fucking shows how awful the DOM is.

You can test this by running the same code in 2 ways, write one that uses webworkers, write one that uses the DOM.
Make them count to 10 quadrillion or some huge number.
Have webworker just store value then print to DOM when finished.
Have the DOM one write to DOM as fast as it can, but write it so that the writes to DOM do NOT halt the increments!
DOM will lose despite the fact the increment is running separate from the DOM updates. Even without it being used it still adds crazy overhead to the JS engine. (which is why webworkers were created in the first place, then threading got added)

3) The JS itself has deep enclosure depths.

{ 
  {
    {
      { 
       ...  and so on

Shit like ^ is fucking awfully slow the more layers down you go.

JavaScript simply isn't optimized for the task it is doing now.
It was never supposed to be used for this.
The DOM editing was a horrible hack on a horribly inefficient language.
And it still isn't fixed and has no plans of being fixed.

>>60259580
128-bit adresses, but hey "let's give everyone /56 block"
why they didn't make it 64-bit in the first place?
>>60259593
anon but my meemer.js framework needs to download 700kb of external javascript from 8 different sources and 3 megs of ads are here just because i need to make for a living

>>60255145
>never compiled

>>60259854
not sure

the main barrier to using it is that you need x32 libraries to go with your x32 applications
that means it's basically another architecture, as far as package maintaining is concerned

>RAM
>memory
Why do people mention this but never mention registers and feature sets?

>>60249576
This is the most winbaby thread I've ever read

>>60255145
useless cunts like you oly need arch and 256 MB in a shitty and old computer. real people wh>>60255145
has a job need a lot more than you in your basement.

64 bit does just allow higher ram access but allows the CPU to load/work on larger blocks of data. If a program isn't written like shit and doesn't thrash cache all the time you'll theoretically get more throughput.

>>60259613
Proprietary unix

>>60249576
Is this house md?

Current gaming consoles are AMD64 with 8GB ram. 32bit is getting obsolete even for kiddie toys.

>>60249695

1. Even if you do not have any single program using more than 2 GB of RAM, you may have many such programs running on one computer, to the point where at the very least, a 64-bit OS is necessary.

2. For certain instruction set architectures (namely x86 and ARM, which is what we see on all consumer devices), the 64-bit extension carries more benefits than merely the amount of RAM allowed. Even if we do want to push for lower RAM usage overall, we should still encourage the use of things like x32, which mix the 64-bit ISA with a 32-bit address space.

>>60252472

>Intel and AMD could simply remove the 32 bits compatibility parts
It is literally mandated by specification. If you removed the 32-bit compatibility, you would cease to have an x86-64 CPU. Operating systems built for x86-64 would not run on such a platform.

>>60259707

Regular 32-bit executables = garbage. Never use regular x86.
x32 = optimal for smaller applications.

>>60249695
>t. page file user

>>60249776
That's true but sometimes you need more like 6,000,000 since humans are diploid :)

>>60264007

Missing some zeroes there.

>>60249695
>I have never seen a production database

My company releases software that has 20k+ users on at any given time. We have servers with TERABYTES of RAM for some of the databases.

>>60263170
Ok

>>60249695
>t. cat-v.org

>>60249695
Then I guess it's a good thing we have the right to bear RAM, not the right to need RAM.

the thing that I hate the most about 64-bit is that half of my programs are in "Program Files" and the other half is in "Program Files (x86)".
Triggers my OCPD

64-bit is a self-serving meme.
64-bit programs require literally twice as much memory to run because all pointers need to be 64 bits. 8 BYTES OF MEMORY PER POINTER.
Imagine an array of pointers to type char.
It's incredibly wasteful.

>>60253859
win7 pro and above have xp compatibility mode

also linux+wine is basically a godsend for retro softwares. Better compatibility than windows itself.

>>60249576
By that logic most software should be 16 bits.

It's just an address space. If the processor likes 64 bit address spaces use them.