I just realized, Vega is a turning point for AMD GPU division,

MOAR COARZ

>>60031730
Yes, Vega is basically Maxwell, including tiled rasterisation.

>>60031730
so what you're saying is that it's going to burn down my house.

>>60031745
The exact opposite what's happening with Vega?

>>60031780
If Titan XP's 250W TDP is going to burn down your house then yes, AMD's 250W TDP Vega will also burn down your house.

t. 5.1GHz 7700k owner

>>60031745
It's bigger cores, actually.

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>>60031730
DESIGNATED

>>60031730
Vega 10(?) - 7.728 ALU per mm2
GP102 - 8.1528 ALU per mm2


Though 15% of the die size is dedicated stuff that's not the ALUs, but Nvidia does seem to have more of them per mm2 now.

>>60031730

How did you came up with the idea that dividing the die size by the #stream processors gives a good and comparable estimate of the size of the shaders?

Vega will have a radically different memory controller, different scheduler etc. I bet the shader size of Pascal might still be bigger, especially considering the lack of a hardware scheduler.

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>POOR VOLTA

While Nvidia was fucking around with clocks for 2 gens AMD has been improving IPC

>>60031881
Because neither AMD nor Nvidia is gonna ever tell you the individual shader size, and everyone knows over 80% GPUs are ALUs, so there's no more accurate estimation besides getting a electron microscope.

Nvidia uses a good amount of die size on ROPs and geometry units, AMD doesn't, which again makes Nvidias shaders smaller.
Then you got the GDDR5 memory controller vs the HBM2, the HBM2 is quite a bit smaller, so again less room to fit in shaders.

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>>60031885
And now AMD has also improved their clocks
Nvidia is LITTER RALLY FINISH

>>60031730
The Geometry units have 2x the throughput per clock in Vega, but what about the shaders? I doubt they're twice the IPC, at most I give them some 30-40%

>>60032352
only time will tell
>Just™ Wait™

>>60032380
Computex isn't that far off

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>>60032394
still a over a month

>>60032402
You can't wait a 5 weeks?

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>>60032424
No

My GPU died suddenly on me a week ago. I'm looking to spend 500 Canadian moneys on a replacement. What's the best thing I can get right now?

or are there any announcements/releases in less than a month that would give more options or lead to price cuts?

>>60031883
All these features Nvidia has years before AMD copied and stole them

Tiled based immediate mode rasterization Maxwell Sept 2014
FP16x2 performance Tegra X1 January 2015
512TB 49bit virtual address space Pascal April 2016
HBM2 support Pascal April 2016

AYYMD HOUSEFIRES, nothing but a shameless uninnovative copy

>>60032518
doesn't nvidia copy all of AMD's ideas too though?

>>60032518
>nothing but a shameless uninnovative copy

kek'd heartly

When unified shaders first became a thing didn't AMD have like 800 when Nvidia was at like 400?

Nvidia first to unified shaders & CUDA compute Nov 2006
First to FP64 compute, 2008

All these were first invented by Nvidia, AYYMD nothing but an inferior copy

>>60032514
Vega at Computex in May.
Even if it's shit, Nvidia might drop prices on the 1080 and 1070. Can't see them dropping prices on the 1080Ti and Titan though.

>>60032518
>>60032580
Nice meme. Are you also implying that Kaby Lake is a copy because it's x86_64?

>>60032529
Considering they are using GDDR5 memory, fucking yes.

>>60032518
Dumb underage Nvidiot.

Tiled based rasterization is a PowerVR technique from 1996, also used in like 10 different major selling products like consoles before Nvidia "invented" it.
FP16, aka binary16 is a 2002 standard, Nvidia's modern consumer GPUs, including the Titan XP are fucking 1/64 FP16 so what the fuck.
AMD GPUs have supported unified memory since 2013.
HBM* is a Hynix/AMD invention, AMD had several HBM GPUs in both enterprise and consumer in 2015.
Meanwhile Nvidia was backing HMC which bombed hard.

Now,
Unified shaders have been in Geforce 8 series, which is 2006, and AMD 2000 series, which were also 2006.
Nvidia has only moved from shader clocks to unified clocks in 2012, talk about decades behind.
ATi has introduced tessellation with TruForm in 2001.
AMD integrated the memory controller with K8
GDDR3/5 were largely ATi/AMD and Hynix efforts, again, Nvidia only got it with Fermi.


Get back to /v/ you cancer.

>>60031730
>Vega is the first AMD arch since forever where AMD had bigger individual shaders than Nvidia.

So considering GCN and it's successors have much greater IPC that Nvidia, and more shaders, and comparable clock Volta will be the next 200$ GPU trying to undercut 580X for budget market?

>>60032903
Found the virgin

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>>60032950

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>>60032950

People here really believe that Nvidia was first with unified shaders?

>>60032903
You're a moron and it shows

Tiled based deferred rendering is not the same as tiled based immediate mode rasterization

AMD HOUSEFIRES HD2000 series did not launch until May 2007, months late and behind Nvidia

Keep on lying though, uneducated ignorant AYYMDPOORFAG

>>60031730
Predicting performance would be pretty easy if they strapped in another 2048 cores, but they haven't, they didn't change the amount of ALUs at all, and considering the huge jump from 28nm SHP to 14nm FinFETs you can't really make a precise judgment on its performance, all we really know that Vega is clocked somewhere close to 1600MHz, is that boost or stock I don't really know.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/2116

>November 8, 2006

http://www.anandtech.com/show/2231

>May 14, 2007

Never ever trust AYYMDPOORFAG LIARS, they can't even get their facts right

>>60033030
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiled_rendering

>Tile-based rasterization is nothing new in graphics. The PowerVR architecture has used tile-based deferred rendering since the 1990’s, and mobile GPUs from ARM and Qualcomm also use various forms of tiling.

Even fucking Larashit had it before Nvidia.
t. David Kanter

You know what's even funnier? Adreno which is a AMD GPU sold to Qualcomm, had it before Nvidia.

>>60033081
Tiled based defered rendering != Tiled based immediate mode rendering

Are you that stupid to understand such a simply fact? Oh yeah, you are, I mean you even lied about AMD having unified shaders in 2006 which they never had

>>60033108
http://www.realworldtech.com/tile-based-rasterization-nvidia-gpus/

Okay sir, I trust you more than Kanter, you know the guy who actually brought the subject up first.
Just admit that Nvidia can't make new innovations for shit, it's not difficult.

>>60033144
Nvidia is way more innovative than you

First to unified shaders, first to GPU compute in 2006 while AYYMD couldn't respond until 2012

>>60032424
for 12 year olds 5 weeks is like forever.

>>60033172
I hope they are, I'm not a private IP company.

>first to unified shaders
By 7 months.

About the same time it took for Nvidia to pull out Fermi ;)
Which was still using hotclocks, some 10 years after ATI moved from them, also GDDR5.


Nvidia : 2
ATi/AMD: 10

>>60033108
Imageon = Adreno
Imageon = 2002
Tile based rendering , 2002-2015 Ati/AMD PowerVR, MS Talisman, Dreamcast, Larabee
Tile based rendering, 2014 - Nvidia

Welcome aboard Nvidia.

>>60033206
Nvidia first to HBM2, GDDR5X in 2016, AYYMD still can't use higher clocked GDDR5 because their GPUs consume too much power, ahahahaha

Even first to GDDR3 back in 2013

Stay mad, uneducated faggot

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>>60033175
>le you-have-to-be-18-(eight-teen)-years-old maymay

ebin :-----------DDDD

>>60033233
None of these are ever used in a PC

Stay mad, uneducated faggot

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>>60033238
HBM? Another AMD invention? Where's nvidia's Hybrid memory cube?
HBM2? Take a look at the Mi25, with HBM2.
>Graphics DDR3 SDRAM (GDDR3 SDRAM) is a type of DDR SDRAM specialized for graphics processing units (GPUs) offering less access latency and greater device bandwidths. Originally designed by ATI Technologies,[1] it has since been adopted as a JEDEC standard.
>Originally designed by ATI Technologies,[1] it has since been adopted as a JEDEC standard.


>>60033248
>i-i-it doesn't c-count..


Your tears are succulent.

>>60033248
Let's recap.
AMD/ATI:

First to unified clocks.
Inventors/Joint inventors of HBM and GDDR
First products with GDDR/HBM
First to tessellation
First to unified memory
First to fully enabled integrated memory controller


Nvidia:
First to unified shaders by 7 months
First to launch a tactical weapon called Fermi
I guess also first to to install spyware so you can record your gaming

>>60033078
>Never ever trust AYYMDPOORFAG LIARS, they can't even get their facts right

22 November 2005, ATI Xenos on Xbox 360 a full WHOLE YEAR before Nvidia G80.

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>>60033304
>I guess also first to to install spyware so you can record your gaming

>>60033323
>console

Not PC

every once in a while I enter these threads in hopes of learning something new or getting some info on upcoming gpus, but instead am treated to a few dudes flinging shit at each other and not being productive in any way

this board fucking sucks, you're all autists

>>60032931
no. at least not this year and won't be called vega

>>60033010
wasn't gpu in 360 from amd?

>>60033304
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memory_controller

>Some microprocessors in the 1990s, such as the DEC Alpha 21066 and HP PA-7300LC, had integrated memory controllers

Still lying about AMD inventing things? Pathetic

>>60033357
>Team Green on full damage control

wew lad

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>>60033357
Oh man that backpedalling.

Just grit your teeth and admit it, Nvidia can't invent shit, the only decent thing they invented is CUDA, which is pretty damn good parallel compute framework.
PhysX isn't even their invention.

>>60033389
Half finished job

>DEC Alpha 21066 and HP PA-7300LC, had integrated memory controllers; however, rather than for performance gains, this was implemented to reduce the cost of systems by eliminating the need for an external memory controller.

As far as I know AMD's IMC was revolutionary.

>>60033357
What difference does it make when you claim that Nvidia was first? And that's the reason the PC launch was delayed. Plus Windows Vista came in november 2006 anyway,

AYYMD didn't invent anything, they bought ATI garbage, 5B for a shit company with shit technology, TOP KEK

Still over 2B in debt

Radeon will always disappoint as long as that pajeet is in charge

>>60033357
SiliconDoc please.
You're embarrassing INElite-sensei

ATI didn't invent anything either, they bought ArtX, another company

Everything Nvidia did, Nvidia invented it without buying another company

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>>60033444
3dfx

>>60033444
>what is 3dfx

>>60033444
>3dfx
>ageia
Lmao

>>60033457
>>60033465
>>60033471
Nvidia only bought 3DFX patents and IP, they didn't buy the company, try educating yourselves, uneducated morons

>>60033444
Why are you arguing here when you don't even know your own fucking history?

This is some next gen brain damage, you don't even have to be born in the 1980's to know this, you can fucking GOOGLE it in a second.

>>60033386
Yes, Xenon was made by AMD.

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>>60033500
This needs popcorn

>>60033498
anon, I don't even know how to react to this
patents and IP is THE COMPANY

>>60033498
Brain damage.

Nvidia is the most innovative company, first to GPU compute, first to variable refresh rate, first to FP16x2 performance

AYYMDPOORFAGS here are all uneducated AYYMD asskissers and asslickers unable to think beyond worshipping a shit company that is dying from bankruptcy

>>60031730
>Now the question remains how buffed up are the individual shaders in Vega compared to Fiji? They almost have twice the transistors dedicated to them.

I actually thought this was because they're buffing up FP64 again, but it's not the case, Vega 20 is apparently the FP64 chip, not Vega 10.
So the extra transistors go to pure single precision

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>>60033498
>Nvidia only bought 3DFX patents and IP, they didn't buy the company

>>60031802

That's different though. Nvidia doesn't have a history of housefires like AMD does. 250W TDP of Nvidia doesn't actually mean 250W like it does for AMD. AMD's is worse.

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>>60033811
Lol? Here's AMD last 250W TDP card, the 7970, everything else high end has been 280-300W

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>>60033811
>Nvidia doesn't have a history of housefires
>what is fermi
I thought you have to be 18 to visit this site

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>>60033811
>>60033857
And here's the 250W Pascal (not XP)

>>60033889
>>60033857
Wait.
So even the 500W PSU is excessive?

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>>60033498
Nvidia only bought their ideas and inventions, they didn't buy the company

>>60033811
First of all, TDP stands for thermal design power, not power consumption.
Secondly, everyone changes how they measure TDP every generation, it's retarded.
And Intel's mobile CPUs are the worst culprits.

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>>60033926
>how do i greentext

>>60033909
Depends if you're overclocking, how much drives and shit you have.

Even at that you'll be fine, but I'd personally always leave some 40% of the PSU unused due to efficiency

>>60033939
People also forget to mention how much power the VRM and VRAM use, a good 20-30W for the high end GPUs alone goes to VRM, and another 50-60W for high clocked GDDR5

The GPU dies themselves are insanely efficient, this is why APUs are fucking awesome when they have a shitload of shaders in them.

>>60031730
Op = fag?

>>60034002
Slightly less for the VRM, but you're right.

>>60031730
All of this means nothing because apis are dinosaurs besides vulkan

>>60033811
Remember seeing a chart recently what showed that ATI/AMD have historically a lower power consumption than Nvidia. That chart even had a extra 1000 mark just for one Nvidia card.

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>>60033811
>Nvidia doesn't have a history of housefires

>>60033811
>Nvidia doesn't have a history of housefires
How new are you?

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>>60033811
>what is fermi

>>60033811
Nvidia invented housefires.

>lets look at high level measurements without concern for lower level details which developers will have to concern themselves with to gain substantially.
It's far more important for mainstream games on pc to consider the driver overhead right now. If your gpu architecture facilitates the driver to work more effectively you can see good performance.
It's rare to be fragment shader bound.

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>>60034760
>>60034667
>>60035312
>>60035366
>you merely adopted the fire... i was BORN in it

>>60031730
>GCN will be deprecated and driver development won't continue
Well, it was a wild ride
>>60033248
PowerVR Kyro were launched for PC's in 2002
>>60033172
>>60032580
ATi Stream and the Close-To-Metal initiative predate CUDA
Also, BrookGPU predates both
Stop lying dumb Pajeet
>>60032903
/thread
>>60033010
Nvidia Pajeets and /v/fags love to lie
>>60033498
They also got most of their employees
Totally not buying the company, right?
>>60033592
Variable refresh rate was already part of the eDP VESA standard

>>60037188
Vega ia still a 16 wide vector arch, GCN is alive.
Though there's really no performance to squeeze out of anything older than Polaris now.

It's happening boyz!
Raja is teasing Vega
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_ZMOn0X6jw&list=WL&index=6

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>>60033248
>None of these are ever used in a PC

There were AGP cards with PowerVR GPUs. The driver releases were terrible, but they existed.

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>>60033357
btfo

>>60033811
>Nvidia doesn't have a history of housefire
Now you remember gtx 480

120€ for used 290X TRI-X yes or no? I have currently 7870 oc'ed at 1250MHz

>>60037626
That's a hard one. I have a 7850 and an R9 290 Tri-X, it would definitely be an upgrade but if you have the money I almost wonder if it wouldn't be worth it to buy a 570 or 580 new.

>>60037626
TRI-X 290X were great, get a slightly higher overclock out of it and you're golden.

If you don't care about power consumption I'd go for it.

Because 100% of the die was shaders...

Based on die size alone, Vega should surpass 1080 Ti at 4k by 10-15%. No doubt it will perform lesser (Vega) at lower resolutions. Vega is built from the ground up as a 4k processor.

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Just sold my R9 390 after AMD gimped it with latest drivers.

Which 1080 should I buy. MSI or Asus (ASUS one is cheaper by $10)

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>>60037579
>The Architecture

>>60037716
>>60037744
Yeah, that's the thing I am wondering too. I have money, it's just that I would probably use it only for year. I am planing to do completely new build next year with ryzen+ and vega.

>>60037778
Do you have something to back that up

>>60037834
Oh, well if it's short term save your money. Just make sure the thing works first before you pay for it.

>>60037870
Yeah I will probably just wait and keep my money.

>>60037805
Tile architecture

>>60037859
Ohm.... My word that I just sold my R9 390?

>>60037971
The gimping that is

https://www.skhynix.com/eng/pr/pressReleaseView.do?seq=2086&offset=1

>SK Hynix Inc today introduced the world’s fastest 2Znm 8Gb(Gigabit) GDDR6(Graphics DDR6) DRAM. The product operates with an I/O data rate of 16Gbps(Gigabits per second) per pin, which is the industry’s fastest. With a forthcoming high-end graphics card of 384-bit I/Os, this DRAM processes up to 768GB(Gigabytes) of graphics data per second.

>More memory bandwidth than 512GB/s max for HBM2 with 2 modules and much cheaper than dealing with through silicon vias & interposer cost

AYYMD IS FINISHED & BANKRUPT

AYYMDPOORFAGS CONFIRMED ON SUICIDE WATCH

http://cdn.wccftech.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/AMD-Vega-GPU_2.jpg >512GB/s max memory bandwidth, slower than GDDR6

>>60038016
HBM3 is supposed to be 1TB/s

>>60038016
>Both Hynix and Samsung are working on HBM3 (Samsung is calling its version "Extreme HBM"), although neither has committed to a firm release date. AMD's current GPU roadmap points to its Navi architecture—the follow up to Vega, which itself follows Polaris—using "NextGen memory," and is due for release in 2018.
>Both Hynix and Samsung
>Hynix ALSO WORKING ON GDDR6
HYNIX BTFO AND FINISHEDDDDDD HYNIX! HOW WILL HYNIX EVER RECOVER?

Now keep your retarded ass cooled down, Nvidia uses HBM2 too

>>60038032
HBM2 is already 1TB/s with 4 stacks.
4 stacks and that amount of bandwidth are currently not necessary for the consumer market though.

>>60038081
Yeah, but AMD is only putting two stacks on Vega dies.

>>60038147
Do you really want Vega to be delayed even more and come out more expensive because you want to pointless extra half TB of bandwidth that the shaders can't even use?

>>60038163
No, just pointing out that until HBM3 comes out Nvidia will still win that pointless dick waving contest in the consumer market.

>>60033172
>moving goal post

It's funny watching people think that somehow AMD will pull a miracle with Vega.

>>60038186
Until, and after. Nvidia can sit on Pascal for another year before they actually move their asses to work on the next gen arch. All because Polaris is ridiculous and Vega, like I said, as miraculous as it may be, it's unlikely to surpass the effect caused by Ryzen, which was kind of shitty by itself.

>256bit GDDR6 card will have 512GB/s of memory bandwidth, same as HBM2 2 stack meme but much cheaper due to not dealing with immature through silicon vias & interposer cost

TOP KEK, AYYMDPOORFAGS

>>60038287
The waiting never ends

>>60037999
My Heaven benchmark went from 1740 to 1600 from 16.11 to latest driver updates.

Also every second comment in this thread

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/663wjv/radeon_software_crimson_relive_edition_1743_whql/

>>60038313
AYYMD GIMPING IN PROGRESS

>>60038313
Impossible. Didn't you hear, AMD fixed all their driver problems years ago?

>>60033857
Underage b&

>>60038382
Shit meant to reply to this >>60033811
Lmao

>>60038347
Did you? Where? /r/AMD? Another universe? Because as awesome as ReLive is, the thing underneath they call driver still sucks. Nvidia's not far from it too. It's a bulky shitty piece of software made by rocket scientist monkeys whose job is to not break the other archaic modules, and they still fail from time to time.

>>60031730
It releases in literally 10 days. I will wait for the benchmarks be for buying amd again, been burned before.

>>60038420
That was ironic. Back in the ATI days their drivers were even worse, but ATI fans would never admint that. Now they claim that 'drivers sucked back then but they're great now', which is still bullshit.
nVidia fucked up a bunch of times too in the last couple months but I have to say that personally I had far fewer problems with nVidia drivers than I had with ATI/AMD drivers

>>60038347
>>60038420
I'm the one who sold the 390. To be fair AMD stepped up their Driver game in the last year. I think there was at least 2-3 driver updates a month.

That being said, Its pretty fucking sickening when the Fucking Freesync doesn't work, performances gets worse and teasing AMD Vega for 140 days now. Fuck you AMD.

>>60037716
Would be worth it if he doesnt care about power consumption. The 290x outperforms both the 580 and 570 when overclocked and beats them both at memory performance, it's power consumption that presents the only drawback (and not having 8gb of memory on most models but outside of texture mods the cards wont use much more than 4gb before performance suffers)

>>60038186
It's almost as if AMD will be using GDDR6 when it becomes available for whatever arch they're planning by then. HBM2 boasts reduction in power, which means more power can go towards the core itself without bloating the consumption of the entire card.

>>60038558
It should stay that way.

Enthusiast cards = HBM, even overclocked uses way less power than GDDR*, and if your GPU ain't bandwidth limited it's even better

Highend - Lowend = GDDR*

Flagships should never ever have to waste power on VRAM when they could use it on the ASIC

>>60038558
Are you retarded?

>>60038458
The last AMD GPU I've had was the 4770, and I never had issues with it, including with its drivers. Now I'm on a laptop with a GTX 860m and I've had plenty of issues. The 365 driver clusterfuck that cucked every Maxwell owner was a real pain in the but. But it showed how fuckep up their shit is. AMD is just as terrible as I see people complaining from time to time.
As of late, they're playing nice, but only until the next arch or windows update come out.

>>60038464
Freesync 1 is terrible. Freesync 2 fixes pretty much everything that the first did wrong, but it requires AMD to have tighter control over the monitors that support it, thus slightly increasing costs. I'm glad, tho, since it's still cheaper than GSync.

>>60037626
not worth the 120€

Will AMD release medium tier gpu with vega architecture? Something like 200€

>>60033811
I thing this is a +18 years site
And anon this is not YLYL

>>60039083
Doubt it, vega seems mostly focused on the high-end. They already have the RX 580 & 570 that they just released 5 days ago around $200, it doesn't make much sense to release $200 cards when you don't have anything relevant above $250 (fury x is old and hot). It does make sense to fill the holes they have for cards above $250 (rx 480) so they will do that, release competitors to the gtx 1080 & 1070

>>60039083
Expect to see a ~€300 vega card with 4GB of HBM2 at some point. Probably not at release though.

AMD say High Bandwidth Cache will make up for 4GB of VRAM. We'll see.

>>60039915
>AMD say High Bandwidth Cache will make up for 4GB of VRAM. We'll see.
They already demoed that recently, running the latest deus ex with only 2GB of VRAM better than the same vega card with 4GB

Why's people hyped over Vega? Didn't you see how shit it was on CES running Doom on Vulkan on 4K at 70fps?

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>>60040854
>prototype card on fury x drivers (read: drivers for a completely different architecture that doesn't work the same way at all) manages to reach 1070 levels of performance
amd btfo.

>>60033811
>>60033857
>>60033889
>>60033939
>>60034250
>>60034667
>>60034760
>>60035312
>>60035366
>>60037588
>>60038397
Holy shit so many fags falling for low-tier bait

But anyways check this one out:
https://youtu.be/2QkyfGJgcwQ

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>>60041329

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>>60033357
>>60033248

>>60041329
Come on, that was not bait.

You know there are kids on this board dumb enough to not know any GPU history predating 2012

>>60033811
NEVER FORGET FERMI

Will we be able to force games to use FP16, like in the Geforce FX days? I remember Half life 2 being playable on a fx 5200 with that trick.

>>60041904
No, but games really should start utilizing fp16 and int8, fucking consoles do.
There's no need for fp32 everywhere, it's just a waste of precision

File: Weow lad.png (45KB, 569x739px) Image search: [Google]

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>Buy rx 480 4 gb.
>Flash for free 4gb of ram
>580 comes out flash to 580 for even better OC Damn AMD sucks guys... I can't wait to sell this card as a 580 and buy Vega.

>>60043311
I'm tempted to buy one of the cheapo gigabyte 480 8gb and flash it to a 580 and sell it for $300 or however much it is but still make a healthy profit then just buy a 1070 with the money

>>60044108
Some of the Bios aren't available online yet... Like I have an MSI card but I flashed with Power color Bios. I'll re flash maybe when I see a MSI 580 bios, cross brand works fine so if you're scamming people you might wanna think about that.