>Electric cars is DOA Wait nevermind

>>59988439
DOA?

>>59988551
Dead on arrival

>>59988439
The only way to save the environment is:
-Reducing individually owned transportation vehicles (cars, motorbikes)
-Producing electricity powered public transport vehicles, lots of them such as they are enough to carry everyone without stacking 100 people in a bus
-Charging them via the public electricity grid which is powered by nuclear plants (solar panels, windmills and hydropower plants are literally may mays)

If you charge your electric car with the electricity produced from coal, gas or petrol, you are literally falling for the consumerist jew and not doing any good for the environment.

>>59988810
>hydropower is a maymay
Feels good having the cheapest power on the western half of the globe, no byproducts and no retarded high school oil worker memes

>>59988973
>Creating artificial lakes and destroying the natural habitat around them
>Good

We can literally split some fucking nuclear atoms to produce energy. Chernobyl won't happen again. What is your problem?

>>59988439
>electric cars
almost as bad of a meme as self driving cars

>>59988810

Wrong.

>>59989002
The 90% salmon meme is already dead, the damage is done and it's still passable, as 4/5 people are not wild fishing from rivers like they were during the first dams
Planning has gotten much better with dams and the locations for resevoirs now have to pass several committees of environmental safety, some of the worst-located dams have been demolished for this too.
In addition to planning the dams so that newborn salmin aren't born in a lake, there's also "fish-friendly" dams for returning salmon, with fish ladders/tunnels and the like. Really the issue is more with newborn salmon than returning salmon, as the return process is actually no longer an issue with modern dams, and with planning against dams near spawning grounds, the problem has pretty much stabilized for half a decade.
This isn't the Wild West anymore, and well planned dams create the cheapest and some of the lowest maintenance power around
Don't have to deal with dumbass oilers, don't have to deal with 50 years of nuclear bitching, don't need to suck government titties to afford shitty solar panels or windmills

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>>59989087
No.

I drive a hybrid & it's not even about the environment, its that the MPG is nice - fewer trips to the gas station saves time & money

>>59989095
I'm a damn scheduler from the Pacific NW and confirm this.

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>>59988810
Putting solar panels directly on the cars might help a bit.

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>>59989210
Dank an extra 5 watts

>>59989095
>Imagine processing a bunch of kilograms of uranium would power an entire city
>Not having to build artificial dams and alike
>Leaving natural habitat alone so we don't destroy it further than we already have

I am also impatiently waiting for the 22nd century because the things I listed above is totally beyond the reach of the current centuries' recources.

>>59989210
>Rainy day

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///M POWER

>>59988439
Wtf is that shit? lmao

>>59989236
>Rainy day
Oh no, imagine if some kind of technology existed where you could store power that has been collected...

>>59989236
I'm not saying nuclear is bad but it is unrealistic with the amount of shitheads in the country, I know for a fact a public nuclear plant would never pass in this state. It is expensive and it is limited by resources, a small complaint but still may be important when the state runs out of money
You don't have to convince me that reacting otherwise useless dirt is a good power source, it's just not gonna happen for a LOT of places
Like the Hawaiian government pays 100% of the expensive solar panel costs for every fucking homeowner, but the people are so against nuclear because it's "bad" they allow their taxes to be drained into subsidies struggling to grab at power.
Never mind the several armed nuclear missles on the island, that's fine because America, it's the power plant that's gonna kill us all

>>59988551
Dawn of Ashes.

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>>59989210
I think Tesla doesn't put them on their cars because it doesn't look good.
But they managed to make good looking solar tiles so eventually they'll end up in the cars.

Also Apple has been trying to put solar panels behind the iPhone screen for a long time now but can't figure out how to do it.

>>59989341
Actually I was talking about implementing nuclear power throughout the world but I never considered the "muh nuclear is bad" may may would be serious.

In a case where your state runs out of money, the nucler power will be least of your concerns but lets adress it anyway. There are tokamaks under development, those are capable of trapping plasma in a magnetic field and withdraw power from it. These machines can self-sustain, meaning that you only need to add hydrogen to them once they are on and we have plenty of hydrogen in the oceans.

If we can't convince people to use nuclear, we can convince their kids. Their dogmatic opinions will die with them, eventually.

>>59989323
It would take hours for a solar panel that size to collect an amount of energy that the car would piss through in seconds. The best it could do is heat up the cigarette lighter.
People talk about solar power like there's some kind of conspiracy keeping it suppressed but it's really not that good in a world where we take electricity for granted and suck it up like it's nothing.

>driving a lithium hog

>>59988810
Charging your electric car with electricity from burning coal/gas/petrol in a modern brayton cycle power plant is still much more efficient than burning gas in an otto cycle ICE. Thermodynamics matter. You get a rough doubling in efficiency, which is pretty huge.

>>59989647
Are you seriously saying lithium batteries have a higher energy density than gas?

>>59989210
Solar panels are great. But car roofs only have space for like half a square meter of solar panel. Not worth it, just put the solar panels on the parking lot instead.

>>59989647
A static oil power plant engine is much more efficient than something working at all rpms that's made to be lightweight and maintained by scrubs

>>59989672
what does energy efficiency have to do with energy density? oh right, nothing.

>>59989672
Lithium ion batteries have a higher efficiency than gas burned in an ICE for storing energy.

Burning gas in an internal combustion engine only gets you half of the energy you would get from burning it in a modern power plant. Storing that same energy from the power plant in a Lithium ion battery is 95% efficient.

In other words, for storage, Lithium Ion batteries are much more efficient than gas.

Energy density is a complete red herring. Modern electric cars have >300 miles range, which is more than enough for anyone who doesn't live in Alaska.

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Elon will retire on mar.......

>>59989785
>Energy density is a complete red herring

Not for aircraft

>>59989310
Only manchilder buy bmw

These overpriced shitbirds take like 2 days to fully charge.

I'll pass, I'd rather wait for ~20K $ ones that have 100 kWh batteries and charge to 100% in 10 minutes.

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Why don't we just keep using gasoline power plants but not let the CO2 escape?

>>59988439
Nice looking coal powered car you got there.

>>59990010

this is being done

>>59989002
>Creating artificial lakes and destroying the natural habitat around them

Converting the environment into something different. If you removed the dams around the world the lakes they formed would be lost radically changing the environment and ecosystems.

Don't think of it as destroying the habitat when you build a hydro dam it's just changing it. Also don't assume that natural is better or worse than manipulated.

>>59988551
Dear or alive

electric cars are a meme,
electric motorcycles are where it's at
>mfw Tesla announces focus on bigger cars and now trucks
for what fucking purpose. give me a bike that can get 500 miles on one charge for $10k that's all I ever wanted

>>59990111
That thing better come with five foot tall speakers on it blasting fake engine noises or something. A practically silent motorcycle sounds like a fantastically easy to way to die.

>>59989647
In pure terms of energy in to energy out yes. But utility has a vast value that needs to be adjusted for. Batteries are terrible at storing energy. Liquid fuels are great at storing energy.

The end solution is to create synthetic liquid fuels from nuclear power plants that are running at reduced capacity at night.

>>59990147
Sounds good desu

>>59988439
Literally $70,000.
No.

>>59990111
Only turbofags drive motorcycles.

>>59990169
No. Filling up a car with liquids requires a huge infrastructure of specialized equipment, while batteries just use the grid. Batteries are just a lot more practical overall, and the battery + electric engine combination has a number of moving parts in the single digits. It is far more robust.

The practicality advantage of batteries far outweighs any of the minor performance advantages that alternative liquid fuels might have.

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>>59990184
The Tesla Model 3 will only cost $35,000 when it's released.

>>59990111

This. Needing a whole 5 seat car is a ridiculous method of transport just to go back and forth to work every day. Very few jobs require you to bring any more than a briefcase, another outfit, or some PPE so there's no reason for most vehicles on the road to not be something like this. Even a "green" car like a Civic or whatever seems excessive.
If you're traveling as a family that's a different story of course but most vehicles are way bigger than they should be.

>>59990257
You're wrong, it's massively inconvenient and as the grid starts shifting towards charging cars then there goes the whole renewable energy capability we have the slim chance at grasping now. Whether you look at industrial or personal consumption there is a huge amount of energy required, all the time. Then you have to factor in huge amounts of the materials used in electric cars versus the cheaper and more readily available materials for ICEs.

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>>59990306
Forgot pic. There are also vans that are this size.

>>59990279
>only $14000 more than any other 4door 4cyl
>only

>>59990257
>Filling up a car with liquids requires a huge infrastructure of specialized equipment,
Which we already have.

You can transfer liquid fuels at energy rates that would take days to charge batteries. As well as the mass being moved is far less.

Batteries don't cut it for use outside of short trips.

>>59988810
Wow. Just wow. Is the 'murrican propaganda really that strong?

You idiots. People is not the problem. Even if everyone stopped using cars and everyone recycled 100 % of the shit they use, the world would still be fucked.

Why? Because factories waste more energy and emit more CO2 than every person in the world, combined.

They don't want to put filters in their pipes and chimneys because it's too expensive to maintain, they don't want to reduce the amount of water and energy they waste because the machines would be more expensive to maintain, they don't want to recycle their emissions because it's too complicated and they keep transporting shit using the most contaminating cargo ships that exist because there are no emission regulations in international waters.

Factories are the culprits of climate change. The biggest amount of trash is always construction materials, computers and paper. All straight from some company.

People isn't the problem. We should contaminate less, sure; but the real problem here are companies.

>>59990306
Economical 5 seat cars use less fuel than a motorcycle.

Only way to go more energy efficient is by going larger: buses, trains, etc.

>>59988551
Found the newfag

>>59988439
>cars is
stopped reading

>>59990279
Just buy a used prius

>>59990169
>nuclear power plants that are running at reduced capacity at night.

Are they?

I think they only run coal and gas plants at reduced capacity at night.
Little point in not running a nuclear plant at full capacity all the time - fuel is super cheap.

>>59989310
>///M "power"

>>59990622
When we convert to a full nuclear electric grid they will have about 60% of their max capacity idle in a normal day.

We can use that free capacity to make liquid fuels.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8zOHZINyG8

>>59990635
Or you can use the excess electricity and grid capacity you have at night to charge electric cars.

Which saves you time during the day as you don't have to go for fuel stops.

>>59990514
I think you're half right. It's true that manufacturing the mountains of shit that we buy and throw out is the main problem, but on top of that the average person really doesn't care about the amount of electricity they personally use in a day. My old LG Rumour 2 had a 950mAh battery and lasted days. Now everyone has phones that use batteries with 2000mAh at the absolute least and they use the full capacity daily.

>>59990622
They aren't, not because of fuel costs but because you don't get to just insta-dial the output of a nuclear plant. It's a dick and three-quarters to get it critical and the latent heat makes any attempt to reduce output lag on the scale of hours/days.

>>59988551
Dope or advanced.
It's a wierd /o/ term.

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>>59988439
>dump oil futures amid peak production hype in the 90s
>oil production continues to increase
>Oh fuck.jpg
>buy rare metal futures
>shill for green energy policy
>convince people the world is in danger if they don't stop using cheap energy
>do it all knowing the composition of the Earth makes the "green economy" impossible
the world is fucked no matter what, prepare for Amish life

>>59990257
>Batteries are a lot more practical over all
Fuck no. If this were the case, airlines would use them, industries would use them, the military would use them, etc. Batteries take relatively forever to charge compared to filling up a tank. They lose capacity with use and environmental conditions, weigh a fuckton, and sacrifice lifetime for charging speed. They're not practical for transportation compared to gas or other liquid fuels.

>>59990279
>Tesla build quality
Fuck no.
>Giant flat tablet replacing all controls and gauges, so you always have a lit square in the corner of your eye, destroying your night vision
>Batteries that wear out in a few years
>Losing half your range in the cold
>Going into limp mode if you drive hard
>Weighs as much as a pigfat R35

>>59988973
But you're killing g a lot of fish

>>59990257
Filling up a car requires just a normal electrical feed, it's not like gas stations are fucking tied to a god damn pipeline.

An electric car charging station requires the high voltage equipment to support it, not to mention requires more space since all of the vehicles have to be there for so much longer at a time

>>59988810
>nuclear plants (solar panels, windmills and hydropower plants are literally may mays)
Nuclear plants are the meme. Windmills and solar have long fallen in price. They threaten natural gas production, and are already making coal obsolete. How many nuclear power plants are built vs solar or windfarms?
Furthermore, solar is much more flexible than nuclear. Even ignoring concerns like Chernobyl or Fukushima, you still need a large body of water in order to provide enough water to keep the production of power cool unlike solar where you can install on just about any household rooftop or for solar in any windy hill.

>>59992489
>or for solar in any windy hill
Or for windmills in any windy hill*

>batteries

why not electrify the roads and charge people per mile or whatever unit of measure.

>>59988439
Electric cars are still utterly useless for very long distance driving, or driving outside of a major metro. I can drive across a continent in a normal car, I can't in a reasonable time frame with an electric car. Get back to me when this is fixed, why would I drop that much cash on a vehicle I can not take anywhere?

>>59992581
>what is fast charging

>>59988810
Fuck the environment. I just want an updated Tesla Roadster so I can go FAST and never need to go to a gas station or worry about fuel ever again.

>>59990379
worth it for the uniqueness, unique engine noise and feeling all high tech and shiieet

>>59992613
Most of the world doesn't have charging stations, but does have gas stations. Using the best charging method that doesn't require a charging station you only can get 92km after an HOUR of charging, and that is assuming it is a 240v outlet (it won't be). Meanwhile with gas I can go much farther much faster, and I don't have to beg someone to let me use their outlet. Electric cars are dogshit at long distance travel.

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Can someone redpill me on hybrid/full-electric cars?

Why do I also see a lot of Toyota Priuses on Craigslist with "salvage" titles?

How much does recharging your car cost compared to gas, and where the fuck do you even go do it?

>>59990659
>Or you can use the excess electricity and grid capacity you have at night to charge electric cars.
>Which saves you time during the day as you don't have to go for fuel stops.

You would need to only charge at night then. Also batteries are inferior to liquid fuels and liquid fuel engines.

>>59990669
Your phone has about a fridge worth of computing electrical demand backing it.

That's each and every phone. The 2 amp hour battery is nothing.

>>59989002
>Creating artificial lakes and destroying the natural habitat around them
kek, I imagine dumb americans never progressed in their hydro plants technology.
The new hip thing ("new" as in the last twenty fucking years) is just creating a smallish tunnel across a mountain and let the water of a river pass through. The water moves the turbine and gets back at the river afterwards.
You guys absolutely suck at civil engineering.

>>59992699
Mate every American house and business has a 240v line, it's what you plug your dryer into

>>59992720
>hybrid
Shitty compromise, might as well just make a super efficient combustion engine.

>full-electric
Expensive, range issues

>"salvage titles"
People who buy Priuses are people who genuinely hate driving. As a result they do so poorly and end up in accidents which total their cars (that is, the repairs to damage exceed the resale value of the vehicle).

>recharging your car
You can look up how many Watt-hours per mile the car uses, decide how many miles you wanna use in your example and multiply. That gives you Watt-hours for the example trip. Divide by 1000 to get kiloWatt-hours, kWh. Look on your electric bill to figure out your local cost per kWh. That's bare minimum cost; don't forget inefficiency at the charger. You'll always draw more than you put into the batteries.

>where
You install a 240V charger at home, and/or use public charging stations. Just look up the maps online.

>>59992489
You don't need large bodies of water to cool either the nuclear reactors or for steam condensing, it's used because it's super cheap and nuclear even as rather terrible PLWR are cheap as fuck to run.

Solar and wind are not a threat to gas because gas is currently the best in terms of reaction to grid demand.

When a cloud flies over your solar plant and output drops by 50% in 5min some other plant is having to ramp up to cover that lost production. Similar for when wind power fluxes.

Advanced nuclear would be even better than our current designs with better load reaction and even lower operating costs. It's economical to make a reactor that uses only a tiny trickle of water if that's a design demand. Even then most of the water 'use' in current reactor designs is really just a very short term borrowing of water.

Solar and wind are not dispatchable and battery tech isn't any where near being effective as a grid buffer. Any magic battery tech that would work for grid level storage can be more cost effectively matched to a coal or nuclear plant.

>>59992799
Yes, but a 240v outlet is rarely seen outside of a building. If it is they will not let you use it either. As my example was a road trip; you have no access to your house when you are miles away from it, and most businesses will not be able to accommodate.

>>59989095
On the other hand, not everyone has a convenient mountain range right next to an ocean causing massive amounts of rainfall from which dams can be used to harness by proxy, the massive amount of solar energy that went into creating the situation in the first place.

There's going to be three forms of energy in the future:

Space based solar power
Nuclear fission
Nuclear fusion

>>59992857
If we ever get fusion to work economically we have no need for fission or solar.

But we have no evidence that fusion can ever work.

Solar in space is a viable application of solar, but trying to convert it into something we can transport down to Earth has large technical requirements to overcome. Larger than the technical requirements of getting space industry online and making solar panels large.

Fission works, and we have superior breeder cycle fission reactor designs to work with. We could go full fission and never bother with fusion. At the very least in terms of project planning for governments we should go full fission and work with that for the next 1000 years and if fusion ever does work switch over then.

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>>59988439
*catches fire*

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>>59988439
>panasonic batteries
>in a $100 000 car
keke

>>59992613
A fantastic way to wear your battery down.

>>59989210
400 Watts in a car that draws 100kW?
>>59989494
>Need thing to absorb light
>Want to let light through it tho
>Need to use light powered by the energy absorbed from absorbing light to push light through the light absorber.

>Lol fukk hydrogen it's stilly
>Wait fuck you can fill a hydrogen car in seconds when we're building robots to switch out the batteries of teslas at gas stations because charging takes too fucking long?
>I-imma see if hydrogen could work...
Good job musk.

>>59988810
>The only way to save the environment is:

Except there is nothing that needs to be "saved" you moron. Keep falling for the neo-communist world wide redistribution meme like a good goy.

>>59992489
>Windmills and solar have long fallen in price

The government subsidizing an industry to make things "cheaper" doesn't really count.

>How many nuclear power plants are built vs solar or windfarms?

Retarded example since it was illegal to build more nuke plants for several decades.

>Furthermore, solar is much more flexible than nuclear

Yes, because every place in the world is as bright and sunny as Arizona right? Fuck off retard.

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>>59992364

>>59989509
The dogmatic opinions about nuclear are made by the media. You'll never get nuclear accepted while the media is working against it.

>>59993838
The oil Jews are behind this, no doubt

>>59993803
maybe its the /o/tist in me but id buy that

>>59992798
Run of the river hydro electric is expensive and low output.

It's more or less shit.

>>59988551
Dopest of All ™ (MKBHD)

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>>59994081
I'd like to think we all would

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>>59993838
>"the media" is behind people not wanting to live next to a goddamn power plant

Do you wear a helmet when you post here?

>>59994203
I'd live next to a nuclear power plant.

>>59988439
Electric cars are the future.
Check this article of the new generation of lithium ion batteries that hopefully will hit the market before 2020
https://news.utexas.edu/2017/02/28/goodenough-introduces-new-battery-technology

Also, there's a lot of shit going on on this read.
There's nothing wrong with nuclear, as long as it is well planned and such.

A Combined Cycle natural gas generation plan is one of the most reliable, economic and efficient ways to generate enectricity at a large scale, asn it's also the cleanest of the fossil fuels, it will provide us of power for a while now. And thats OK.

Next come the renewable technologies which thank god are low in price and in the raise, hopefully they will take on as much as thhe coal plants are going out of order, and in the future will make a bigger part of the total generation.

Now, emerging technologies is where the shit is really at. Gasification and fuell cells have some REALLY interesting potential going on. Hopefully we can harvest them properly inthe near future.

My bet (and hope) lies on an efficient ethanol fuel cell.

>>59994655
Fuel cells are a meme

>>59992613
>80% after 30 min charge
>topped off after 2 hours maybe
vs
>insert pump
>take piss/buy mtn dew
>done pumping when you get back
Get back to me when the energy/sec is on par to a gas pump

What would happen if a country would provide some helps so citizen would be able to have a solar panel on his roof + creating laws forcing new buildings to have a better isolation system / using good materials ?

Is it possible ? How much would it would lower the need of nuclear energy on a country ?

>>59992720
As a first order approximation, electricity is almost free compared to gas for a car of the same size.

>>59993563
Building battery replacing robots is cheaper than building a hydrogen refueling station. I kid you not. Hydrogen is as ludicrously impractical as it can possibly get.

>>59988551
Driver of America

>>59997498
Hawaii uses many solar panels for their energy needs but the locals in that area usually pays fuck ton of taxes for that (government gives away the solar panels). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_in_Hawaii?wprov=sfsi1

But
>Polluting the environment while producing solar panels
>Polluting the environment while producing batteries
>Not just using nuclear

>>59997798
>> Waiting a decade for a nuclear power plant to be built.
>> Putting up with pollution from coal during that time.

China is building both nuclear and solar as fast as they can to get rid of coal. End result is that they have a lot more solar than nuclear.

Building out nuclear capacity is SLOW. People tend to see that 10% nuclear portion of the US grid and assume that it happened overnight, rather than as a multi-decade long effort.

>>59997925
Then lets start building them now and finish our job by 2030 because I am sure that poles won't hold up much longer against global warming.

>>59997961
God emperor Trump probably won't allow energy companies to get permits for building them though, because he said the war on coal was over.

>>59988810
Buying electric cars and supporting renewable energy will slowly transition energy. Of course at first some or all your electricity will come from coal etc. Completely natural. Transition from an old system to a new system.

>>59988810
>>>59988439 (OP)
EU for the win!
>-Reducing individually owned transportation vehicles (cars, motorbikes)
People that live in the country side need them but most people in the cities either use bikes or public transport
>-Producing electricity powered public transport vehicles, lots of them such as they are enough to carry everyone without stacking 100 people in a bus
Most public buses in my country are running on LPG but they're switching to electric ones really fast. Also most of PT is done by trams anyway.
>-Charging them via the public electricity grid which is powered by nuclear plants (solar panels, windmills and hydropower plants are literally may mays)
Maybe they're a meme in the states, but 70% of our energy comes from hydro or wind and the rest from solar, nuclear and a small portion from natural gas (the last coal plant was kill in the 90's). Sucks to be an oil cuck.

>>59988439
>It's real in my IQ89 mind

>>59989002

Let's just ignore tons high level radioactive waste that's here to stay. What could possibly go wrong..?!

>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_nuclear_power_accidents_by_country
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_safety_and_security
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_books_about_nuclear_issues

>>59998007
>energy companies to get permits for building them
lol wtf do they teach you kids

>>59998562
>Lets pollute Earth so much with fossil fuels and leftover from the electronic productions that it gets impossible to live on the planet anymore
>Instead of burying some tightly sealed radioactive waste hundreds of meters underground.
>Or instead of simply launching that waste to space if it ever becomes a problem (it can't)

Fuck off filthy arab. Its your fault that you built your entire economy around fossil fuels.

>>59998627

Didn't teach you three mile island and fukushima anything??

I mean since most nuclear accidents happen in the US, I could actually ignore you shills, because sooner or later something will happen.

It's just common sense:
You have hundreds of thousands of tons of toxical waste that won't vanish for billions of years.
So how can you expect nothing will happen in this time? Because mankind is such a reasonable and peaceful species..? :^)


And everything for some lousy bucks for atomic energy shills...

Of course coal is not the answer, it never really was. Unless we develop sustainable energies (without deadly waste, that is) we are making "technical debts" and play with the existance of mankind..

>>59998814
Rising sea levels, vast climate changes, literally melting poles obviously didn't teach you anything.

Nuclear plants is clearly better than fossil fuel, hydropower and windmill plants. Fission reactors (tokamaks) are clearly better than nuclear reactors (in theory). But there is a catch, we need to dispose more energy than we harvest from tokamaks, to run them for 5 minutes or so. Its a half baked technology, currently.

So I am waiting, please present valid alternatives to nuclear energy.

>>59998814
Who cares? I'll be dead by then.

>>59999999

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>>59993519
>>Need thing to absorb light
>>Want to let light through it tho

>what is nokia clearblack

>>59989310
hello armenia

>>59998814
TMI:
>Hire competent people to run your reactors
>Containment systems (unsurprisingly) contain disasters
Fukushima:
>Gentleman's agreements are bullshit and Japan still has authority problems
>Who knew

There's already storage for high level waste, but uninformed environmentalists screech and flail when people try to use it. Old fuel can be recycled, but that's verboten since people thought it was important to appeal to morons who don't know what they're talking about.

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>>59988439
Range is shit, "fueling" takes forever.
Shit product, will not buy.

>>59998899

>Rising sea levels, vast climate changes, literally melting poles obviously didn't teach you anything.

Which doesn't concern the sustainable energies I was talking about earlier...


>So I am waiting, please present valid alternatives to nuclear energy.

It's about where you put your R&D into. You can't expect new energies to be efficient as fossil fuels which has been researched for a much longer time or nuclear power which haven been reserached with a lot of money/manpower since WW2.

That's why people like Elon Musk are so damn important, because industry only cares about the highest profit. If you make 90% of that profit with something differnt which doesn't destroy environment, they will still take the first option.

I'm not against capitalism, but those are simply the laws of economics: common goods will get looted until they vanish, unless politic prevents it. But politicians are constantly under pressure from various lobbyists, and fussil fuels have a very very strong lobby.

So the best waay to change things is from with the economy. And Elon does a great job there.


>>59999377

TMI:
1) No matter how good your security sytems are, humans can always fail, especially under severe pressure.
2) Sometimes the is a thin red line between "Wowo, we managed to contain it at the last moment!" and "Oop, we better leave this continent for good.."

Fukushima:
1) Whenever there's A LOT of money involved, people won't give a shit about honesty, security or even humans (who knew?!)
2) Even in 2011 with all that "hurr, we learnt our lessons!" there's a chance for a Major nuclear accident (the possible highest level in the International Nuclear Event Scale).
3) "We have a shitload of nuclear waste water? Just put it in the sea! Problem solved.. :^)"
4) "What ruin? Let's put some walls arround it, people will forget about it eventually.. :^)"


BTW Chernobyl is not "over", it's still there, lying under it's sarcophagus, waiting.

>>59997766
Isn't it basically just like LPG?
You can even just have an on site hydroxy generator.

>>59998990>
>what is nokia clearblack
Another word for OLED?

>>60000766
i guess you didnt even spare a second to look at the picture?

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>>59989002
You laughed at us Dutchies for for too long, but who's laughing now faggot, soon we will empty our lands with our powerful mills and guard ourselves with our mighty dikes. You'll see fucker.

>>60000694
>Waiting
Waiting for what? Your post reeks of somebody who's mostly read shallow popsci articles about what happened at both plants. When there's a lot of money involved and high stakes, people care far more about honesty and safety. Just look at the airline industry. TMI also happened forty years ago. Both reactors and safety systems have improved in that time, and TMI was an example of staggering incompetence which has since been studied extensively and learned from. It's downright offensive that you compare western nuclear power and Chernobyl in the same post, and I don't see anybody here saying it's "Over."

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>>60001652
>Mighty dikes

>>59998814
Your "evidence" is made up of two events that could have been prevented by more training.
Next.

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>>59998899
Tokomaks are fusion reactors and are nuclear reactors just as much as fission reactors. Shut the fuck up if you don't know what you're talking about.

>>59990724
uranium expended by 2080.....
total fabrication