95% engineers in India unfit for software development jobs

>>59985684
Dear Sir,

Please kindly do the needful and delete this racist post against Indians

>>59985695
It's not racist if it's true.

>>59985695
We're helping Indians by telling them to improve themselves.

>>59985684
Good. About as any other demography.

barely anyone is fit for software dev because it's such a fucking clusterfuck
>sysadmin
>get told to set up network, server and accounts
>use well-tested and well supported software that just werks after setting up(except the fucking printers)

>software dev
>WELL, WE'D LIKE THIS PART TO BE IN JAVA SO IT CAN COMMUNICATE WITH OUR WEB SERVICE, ALSO IT'S SOAP BUT IN THIS SOAP WE'RE ACTUALLY SENDING JSON WHICH IS THEN PARSED ON THE SERVER AND SENT BACK AS JSON IN SOAP.
>OH AND FOR THIS PART WE'D HAVE TO TRY OUT USING ANGULAR, BUT WE CAN'T INSTALL NODE.JS ON YOUR MACHINE BECAUSE ADMINS ARE LAZY, SO GO FIGURE OUT HOW TO DO IT WITHOUT THAT

>>59985684
Please delete this sir thank you have a very happy day but please you must delete this thank you

>>59985684
sir I am warning you delete this now or I think very less of you best wishes

>>59985837
So sysadmins have piss easy jobs which makes them even more lazy than they were on the day they were hired?

>>59985909
I imagine so, ofcourse depends on the company probably
I really can't wait to get the chance to change career, not because I want to be a lazy fuck but to actually get to fuck around with things instead of begging administrators to update my fucking visual studio. And it still took them 4 weeks just to do that, holy shit

>>59985909
Or maybe programmers should stop going for the latest meme programming language du jour with the company's projects and have a consistent approach to solve problems using established methods and technologies?

I think it was even one of you who first established the KISS principle...

>>59985695
D E S I G N A T E D
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>>59985695
Fuck off pajeet. Pajeets are not welcome.

>>59985995
yea, well we don't get to choose

>>59986002
fuck where did my beautiful square formatting go??
I bet some curryniggers programmed that response form.

Indians are useless but engineers != programmers.

>>59985684

Hmm, so just about on par as the snowflake crowd.

Given the option would you rather take an indian or a snowflake as a coworker?

>>59985995
>implying programmers get to choose
I don't think they want to use oracle products anon.

>>59985684
4.77% of a billion is over 40 million. Stay mad, white boy.

>>59986019
programmers and cs grads in the bay area are referred to as engineers.

>>59985684
No fucking shit. The only reason they're hired is because accountants think workers are interchangeable. It's already fucked that these non-white freaks are allowed into our country, but letting them bring their wives and families, and firing whites to hire them instead is unabashed genocide.

>>59985684

Not surprising at all, I once saw some code that was outsourced by a company to Inida that we had to pick up and it was the worst fucking code I had ever seen, like the people that maintained it just had no fucking idea what they were doing and just added every fix to a single class and one fucntion.

>>59986052

This, qualified Indians still outnumber capable westerners. How will the west ever recover?

>>59986039
Indian. They hate Muslims and love Hitler

>>59986182
Enjoy the stench.

>>59985909
ehhhh, I wouldn't say lazy. I see it as becoming more complacent in the situation you might be in and might not go out of your way to do as much when it just blows up back into your face.

When given the opportunity most sysadmins will go along with improving sitautions or infrastructure, but if they try to do it on their own accord, upper management gets on your ass and the end users are pissed something slight changed

>am sysadmin

>>59986100
Don't delude yourself pajeet

The only reason you're hired is because you are cheap labor to make shitty code but that's good enough for the job (in some cases).

When you need serious coders with good programming and mathematical skills you hire eastern europeans.

That's exactly why programmers at finance companies programming HFQ engines come from slavic countries.

There's not even a single paajet coding for JP Morgan.

>>59985958
being sysadmin is great.

If given the chance to get some server and networking certs, go for it. Those will almost always help you hit the job to get your foot into the door

>>59986052
>The study further noted that while more than 60 per cent candidates cannot even write code that compiles, only 1.4 per cent can write functionally correct and efficient code.

How many of those 1.4% are actually able to solve real world problems?
"can write functionally correct and efficient code" is literally copy-pasting code monkey tier.

>>59986182
Those were british colony days

>>59986226
I disagree.

>>59985684

Not that I'm surprised, do they still have schools where the programmers have never seen a computer before because all they did were to write code on paper?

>>59986339
why?

>Study: 100% of NEETs with no education or experience who browse /g/ all day less fit for software development than 100% of Indian engineers

>>59986226
I'm getting discouraged from applying to jobs since all of them want 3 years of experience and I've never worked on stuff like virtualization.
So now I'm stuck suffering through this dev hell until a position opens back at the place where I did my highschool practice. They'll have the same requirements as these jobs I'm avoiding but atleast I have firsthand experience there and know what they really need and what they work with.
I just want to be comfy at work

>>59986575
you're needed in the designated shitting street, rajeesh

>>59985695
>do the needful

my sides

>>59985684
oh so there' only 7000000 engineers to compete with for US jobs then

>>59987160
>7000000 people who are capable of writing a working fizzbuzz

>>59985684
>Over 36,000 engineering students form IT related branches of over 500 colleges took Automata -- a Machine Learning based assessment of software development skills -- and over 2/3 could not even write code that compiles.
>IT related branches
So "engineers" whose job is to ask people to make sure their mouse is plugged in don't know programming, who would have guessed?

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>>59986052
It is only 4.77% of the software "engineers" that can pass a basic programming test, not 4.77% of the entire Indian population. Only a tiny portion of India's population graduates college with a CS or similar degree, and thus would be considered by this hiring firm in the first place. Maybe the reason most of them can't code is because their reading comprehension is as bad as yours, pajeet.

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>>59985695
this pls

>>59985837
>>software dev
>>WELL, WE'D LIKE THIS PART TO BE IN JAVA SO IT CAN COMMUNICATE WITH OUR WEB SERVICE, ALSO IT'S SOAP BUT IN THIS SOAP WE'RE ACTUALLY SENDING JSON WHICH IS THEN PARSED ON THE SERVER AND SENT BACK AS JSON IN SOAP.
>>OH AND FOR THIS PART WE'D HAVE TO TRY OUT USING ANGULAR, BUT WE CAN'T INSTALL NODE.JS ON YOUR MACHINE BECAUSE ADMINS ARE LAZY, SO GO FIGURE OUT HOW TO DO IT WITHOUT THAT


you forgot:

>AND DONT EXPECT TO GET WELL PAYED FOR THIS WORK.

>>59987363
pls no bully.
Its hard to read correctly when the fifth pack of explosive diarrhea is on its way and all the good streets are taken.

>>59987401
I honestly can't believe I'm doing that kind of shit for this awful pay

>>59987363
>It is only 4.77% of the software "engineers"
Incorrect.

It was 4.77% of engineers in "related" fields, which didn't explictly even say those would would ever write a program in their jobs.

>>59985695
Hello bab

You like my moustache? I am married man will you show me? Can I see?

Hello?

Hello dearie

Hello?

Please bab

I'm here babby

>>59985684

i have to work with indian programmers on a fairly consistent basis

they live up to the stereotypes of not being able to think outside of the box to flat out lying about completing work

pretty sad state of affairs desu

>>59987401
Software devs in my area can make anywhere from around $40 to $100 per hour.

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>>59985898

HAHAHA POJEETS BTFO BY THEIR OWN POJEETS
LMAO

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Please delete this post.

t. Pajeet

I went to a tech seminar today which had an Indian speaker.
Contrary to all the other speakers, he fumbled every demo, talked incoherently and went over the allotted time for each of his lectures.

This is totally, 100% unsurprising. I work with a lot of indians in my area, and many of them at my company that I work with, they are smart, motivated, hardworking people who deserve to be there.

Third parties though.... ehhh....

So to get started, I'm a US based resource. My time costs my customers somewhere between $2,000-$3,000 USD per day (I don't make that much, but it's what my employer charges the customers I work with for my time). This means if we take an eight hour workday, and take the lower figure, my time is worth $250/hr to my customers.

I spend a *lot* of time upskilling my customers. Like, a ton. OK, I get it; to hire a kid fresh out of college in the US with a bachelor's in a related area, he's going to expect $50K-$60K plus benefits. The route of going with a contractor for $15K equivalent plus no benefits is appealing, right?

For starters, most third party support from India is bad. Companies lowball on the promise that they can meet needs, then the lowballers will throw active impediments and roadblocks on the work. You want one set of commands run manually across 1,000 plus servers and hand it over? It'll get done. Anything that requires any creativity or problem solving/analysis beyond basic troubleshooting steps? Forget it.

Assuming you get the less common scenario, which is that they are well intentioned and hardworking. Well, most of them on the lowballers are less experienced then their resume states. You have me at $250/hr upskilling a guy who makes maybe $5/hr or doing work/cleaning up after him (which doesn't include the cost of damages).

Okay, you've spent a ton of money on me to upskill the offshore guy. Well now he isn't worth $5/hr. He goes to a different company in pursuit of the almighty dollar (why shouldn't he watch out for his own best self interests?) and boom, all the knowledge transfer is lost.

But that is *nothing* compared to H1-B visa abuse. (More in a subsequent post).

>>59987589 here
So the H1-B visa is a non-immigrant visa that you can apply for when the qualified talent "doesn't exist in the US" (note the quotes, they're there on purpose). If you get approved you get three years, applicants can renew for another three years for a total of six years. The cap is 65,000 for bachelor's or less education, plus an additional 20,000 for masters degree holders. Government and academia are exempt. If we ignore the exempt groups, that's 85,000 per year times six years eligibility = A half million additional workers in the workforce. Most of the skilled jobs under H1-B are for IT. A disproportionate number of jobs are taken by Indians.

The H1-B visa lottery peaked in 2014; about 180,000 people applied for 65,000 jobs. These are correct applications with the fees paid and all. At that point it becomes a lottery, where 2/3 draw the "short stick" and get told to fuck off. Hey, we have to have limits right?

The problem is the rules suck, and many of those who didn't draw the short straw shouldn't even be here.

So, for starters. The H1-B visa is supposed to be for talent that doesn't exist in the US. It's not supposed to be a job replacement visa, it's not supposed to be a visa that lower paid immigrants take to learn and then offshore the job back home. This is often how it is used.

Companies will interview people with the intent to hire them, then post a new job posting on their website curtailed from the resume. This is to evade waiting periods on trying to prove, darn, no qualified americans applied (because the job posting was written backwards so only the foreign candidate will meet it).

Firms which use more than a certain percentage of H1-B visas are supposed to be punished. In reality, Indian companies will have 95%+ Indian employees in the US and pay them the minimum $60,000 to avoid these requirements, even if they're replacing people in $120,000 jobs (has happened over and over again).

>>59987657 here
They will bring people in on H1-B who claim more experience with a version of a product than said version has existed for and the guy won't know his ass from his elbow (personal experience; even the guy that flubbed the interview was not the guy they sent to the US, totally different voice and even less knowledge than a whitepaper).

It's sad because I know some Indian coworkers that are smart and deserve to be here. But the rules are a broken mess. Raising the H1-B cap is not the answer, tightening the rules on who qualifies is.

As far as India goes for offshore, business types are in risk management, if a third party fucks up then they can point fingers at them, but even that might not be enough to save people from getting fired. Companies are starting to wise up that offshoring 12 hours off is not necessarily a savings in the end with end to end cost, sure the resource cost is cheaper but not the quality of work or impact from lack thereof. India has some serious soul searching to do, because if the answer is that an overwhelming majority in India are seen as over-claiming their experience it's going to hurt their development to increase their GDP in the future, they'll be viewed as cheap yet inferior offshore work and stall.

/endbraindump

>>59987657
>>59987589
>>59987657

Dear Sir,

Please kindly do the needful and delete this racist post against Indians

5% of 6 billion people is still a fuck ton of people.

>>59987682

>because if the answer is that an overwhelming majority in India are seen as over-claiming their experience it's going to hurt their development to increase their GDP in the future, they'll be viewed as cheap yet inferior offshore work and stall

India has been viewed as a country sized sweatshop for ages now, most companies don't care because it's just so cheap for them. We can all argue about how well this has been working in the long run for them (ask Yahoo) but the people in charge aren't known for worrying about long term consequences.

Pajeets are here to stay, I'm afraid.

>>59987736
India's population is 1,326,801,576. On top of that this only takes into account engineers. So 5% of 5% is 3, 317, 003 or 3 million people.

Are Indians identical to Mediterranean genetically?

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>>59987736
>The whole population of India are engineers

>>59987895
no.not in the slightest.

>>59986016
Lol can you even triforce?

>>59986002
>>59986016

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Can this stupid "immigrants reduce wages!" meme please die already?

http://reason.com/archives/2017/04/14/welcoming-immigrants-means-higher-wages

>>59985684
not even indians like india, or other indians. why do you think they want so bad to leave india?

but tell them india is shit, and see how butthurt they get.

>>59987555
Checked

>>59989067
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lump_of_labour_fallacy

>>59989067
>Flood labour
>Expect the mass surplus of supply to somehow increase wages
I really think this author is lying

>>59986273
>t0ilet
THEY EVEN FUCKING SELF CENSOR TOILET

>>59987445
I make $5 an hour, how great is that
jesus christ, I actually make the same as pajeets on freelance sites

>>59985684
yeah no shit

>>59989344
>how can my preconceived notions be proven wrong by science?
Don't feel so anally flustered, kid. You're not always right.

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/09/when-america-was-great-taxes-were-high-unions-were-strong-and-government-was-big/407284/

>>59985909
>So sysadmins have piss easy jobs
jobs so easy that you're expected to not reach 5 minutes of downtime in a year period, or you'll be replaced

Why can't /pol/ FUCK OFF and stay in their containment shithole?

>>59985837
Node has nothing to do with angular.

>>59989652
What is npm?

>>59989447
You're link and it's sources had no science in them. It was 2 opinion pieces.
You're retarded if your going to ignore the supply and demand of labour.

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>>59989761
>implying supply and demand economics aren't obsolete
lol are you even trying?

Labour market supply and demand relations aren't linear, they're differential equations with several local maxima and minima.

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2017/01/economism-and-the-minimum-wage/513155/

>>59989814
>Implying they are
Can you refute your claim?

P A J E E T
A
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T

>>59987589
>upskilling

anyone else want to punch this faggot in the face?

>>59989534
The article has nothing to do with /pol/ and everything to do with the tech sector.

>>59985684
fock you

>>59985684
Most of the talented Indians already fled to the UK and the US a generation ago, it makes sense that the rest left behind are still wallowing in poo.

>>59989867

Google, Apple and a handful of other tech companies have just been caught red handed colluding among themselves to not compete for each others' talents so they can keep wages low. The labor market is a tad wee bit more complicated than just supply and demand of vulgar economics.

>>59990468
You could even argue that Google's strategy is to keep as much talent out of play as possible.

>>59990494

It's not really Google's fault that the best mathematicians and engineers of our generation are working at Wall Street machinating ways to screw the economy for profit

>>59989947
angry /pol/tard spotted

Why do Indians make /g/ so butthurt? I know a few that went to my school (highly-ranked CS school) that are very talented programmers.

Or is just /pol/ pretending to be /g/ again?

>>59990661
in b4 le epic "poo in loo pajeet" because I omitted a word.

>>59990676
Ironically, 4.77% also poo in the loo.

>>59990676
We understand, Deepak

>>59990984
you mean
>4.77% of people in india, including tourists poo in the loo

>>59985695
>Absolutely designated
Are all Indian posts shit posts?

>>59985909
I disagree.

I'm about to finish a degree program that sucked and didn't prepare me for shit. If I get a CCNA will I be able to reliably get a IT job? Where should I get my CCNA? Any other good IT certificates I should consider getting?

>>59987401
>job posting for jr developer paying 50k
>requirements are 8+ years java, spring, REST, angular, css, html, js, bunch of testing shit, good personality

Fuck companies. And fuck pajeets for pretending to be experts and filling these roles only to bring down the average salary and then fuck everything up because they're incompetent.

>>59985684
Kind sir, I am not keeping well with this, please do one thing, take updation and kindly revert in case of concern as soon as possible.

POO POO POO POO POO
EVERYWHERE

>>59986039
Snowflake because they at least don't smell

>company lays off hundreds of muricans
>CEO gets praised for saving money
>hires out the workload to pajeets for fraction of the cost
>realizes the work they do is shit
>hires my company to fix all the shitty code the pajeets are sending them

On one hand, it's work. On the other hand this is the current state of many tech companies. If it's not outsourcing to Asia, it's firing people to rehire them as contractors for shittier pay and no benefits. It's just not sustainable.

>>59985709
Racism is the belief that one race is superior to another. If one race is indeed superior to another, saying so is both racist and true. Just because some have made the word racism into a pejorative for political reasons doesn't mean that it can't be truthful.

>>59986039
I'd rather quit.

>>59994380

'Racism' means prejudice based on someone's race. Why are people trying to rewrite dictionaries?

>>59985684
This is on par with all other countries. Remember the lesson of FizzBuzz: 99.5% of all programming job applicants cannot program. Indians are no different.

I often hire Indian writers for my website.
Im not kidding when I say that only about 15% of the ""elite"" writers is capable of writing a proper text.

Most just try to machine spin a text, fail at elementary school sentences, are incapable of doing research or simply copy someone elses work.

>>59994572
And with a proper text I mean something a middle schooler could write.

>>59994521
Because you obviously have never used one that includes multiple definitions for a word.

>>59985684
eat shit pu khaka your mother fuc

They took MONTHS to develop what one of our Mexican devs took hours to complete. Even after we shipped them to Mexico for training we were informed all they did was download movies and be late.

>>59989652
Yeah I saw that too and was thinking that sums up current developers well; everyone else is a retard except you.

>>59985709
Exactly! What? Are we going to pretend that Latino teenagers don't have a bunch of kids? Or that blacks are statistically much more prone to violent crime than any other race?

>>59994813
As long as you don't make unreasonable inferences using the statistics, saying that blacks have statistically caused more crimes than any other race is not racist, no matter how angry Jamal gets when you say it.

>>59993401
What companies are those

https://qz.com/963530/h-1b-its-not-just-trumps-america-indian-techies-are-unwanted-from-east-to-west/

>Donald Trump’s message to bring jobs back to America has been loud and clear, but by no means is it new. With the rise of nationalist sentiment around the world, countries from the west to the east have been making moves to weed out the foreign worker population for years now.

Hmmmm...

>>59985684
It's so true. My company is in the process of 'in-sourcing' a bunch of Indians and they simply can't code. They're literally taking WEEKS to do a simple data insert task - e.g. insert one row of data into a table. The code that they write literally won't compile and is filled with bugs after we do fix it enough to compile. Our first year interns are literally better than these pieces of shit.

>>59985995
the problem with the "established methods and technologies" is that they're all fucking awful and consistently produce terrible products that everyone hates

have you ever used ENTERPRISE SOFTWARE coded in JAVA? of course you have, and it was awful, wasn't it -- that shit is the 'established solution'

and holy fuck, working with the established solution is miserable. after the first few years, you don't get a dopamine hit anymore from writing up a ProblemFactory in Java

I need novel languages and structures more than junkies need dope, anon.

>>59994725
you need it for npm so you can 'properly' use shit like grujt, bower and whatnot. Literally every tutorial (incliding official one) assumes you have node installed, and as someone seeing angular for the first time ofcourse you won't know any better than to follow those

>>59995673
Don't you need node to transpile typescript and run the Angular CLI?

>>59985684
4% of all indian engineers is how many engineers? like 300 million?

dont find solace in this

>>59995567
my company is doing the opposite. want to increase outsourced jobs from 60/40 in/out to 50/50.

>>59995748
Wait how many Indians are actually engineers - then take an 4% out of that.

>>59985695
>Please kindly do
wow. perf

>>59995737
I don't know, as said I never got it installed locally because admins are lazy and you need to wait for every change for like a month.In the end we ended up dropping trying it out. God I hate corprorations

>>59990625
Yeah...actually it is Google's fault, along with the rest of the self righteous hypocrites in the valley.

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>>59989067
>I don't understand the laws of supply and demand

Leave economics to the whites, pajeet. Protip: Libertarians are retarded and you shouldn't listen to them.

>>59989447
>Pajeet doesn't know that association does not imply causation

America would be the dominant economic force in the 40s-60s no matter the model used due to be the sole functioning post-industrialized economy not damaged by WW2. No shit you are going to do well when you have a monopoly.

>>59989814
Now I see, you weren't just pretending to be retarded.

So just 3 billion engineers left?

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>>59986081
Is that an American thing?

Up here in the Great White North, "Engineer" is a protected title, like "doctor" and "lawyer", in that you can't call yourself that without the proper credentialing and certification.

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>>59985684
You need DELET this now, dirty son of bastard bitch!

CURRY CURRY CURRY *smears poo*

>>59989401
Toilet is a topic indians try to avoid at any cost.

>>59986273
>In India some people need a degree for getting married,
AAHAHAHA

It's true sadly.

The best third world country's programmers are brazilians and chinese.