Is C# a good language?

>>59964940
Good stuff. I went python, then java but C# is pretty good too. After that type of language you can start to look for a language that suits your needs. These days I'm on C++ doing opengl projects.

Good luck anon

It's OK, I guess.
It's not too much like C or C++, those languages are much more low level, it has more in common with Java.
C# is relatively safe so it's good for general application development where performance isn't totally critical.

All the C's are great

>>59964940
>Also, is it a good language in comparison with C and C++?
yes, not that this is a real archivement, though

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>>59964940
It's pretty much the official language of Windows (Microsoft uses it more than any other language on Github), so if you want to invest into the Windows ecosystem and Visual Studio, you can look into it.

Why is writing c# on linux such a pain in the ass? Visual studio code is shit and mono develop barely works half the time.

>>59964940
no you stupid nigger

>>59964940
It's decent as a language. But the world is actually using Java / Scala,

First of all because of all the existing libs and better cross-platform & sandboxing stuff, second because Java/Scala have superior libraries and overall hosting stacks, and third because Microsoft was a huge troublemaker and you don't want to trust them rather than the much better open source communities that formed strongly around various huge corporate conglomerates that contribute.

It's even a bit of a global issue, reducing reliance on MS a bit is even a somewhat political concern across Eurasia.

>>59967346
>But the world is actually using Scala,

>>59967288
Because it's Microsoft language for MS platforms.
You didn't believe in MS .NET open-sourcing, did you?

>>59967366
Yes, it actually is. Spark is one of the most widely deployed "cloud" server frameworks at this point.

Almost everyone who even has a cloud uses it.

https://spark-summit.org/2017/speakers/

Apart from that, we have sbt, akka, play, scalatra and more that are at least more widely used than, you know, Microsoft Azure or such.

But Scala is sitting (albeit very deeply entrenched now) in a cloud infrastructure - intelligent website type of niche. Java is of course still far bigger. And C# also has a niche on Windows desktop applications, but you know how the trend goes on these...

>>59967414
>cloud
this gets better and better, anon

>>59967418
Yea, this is obviously what most of the already deployed infrastructure looks like, and it's clearly better.

>>59967414

Scala might be running a lot of important things, but that code is maintained by very few people, and any future replacements will probably not be Scala.

Scala is on life support and kept alive only by the maintenance of a few major projects started by companies that didn't realize what a bad business decision Scala was.

For all it's good ideas and merit, it's just too fucking hard for 90% of programmers to grok (that includes me, and I like functional languages), making it too expensive to find programmers for.

Scala is not a good language to learn for the foreseeable future unless you have a specific reason.

>>59967516
> Scala might be running a lot of important things, but that code is maintained by very few people
That's a reality for almost every project. Windows or Oracle's DB or whatever else probably has pretty important parts only two programmers know about.

Actually complex projects like the Linux kernel where a lot of entities are actually involved with larger subsystems are more the exception than the rule.

> Scala is on life support and kept alive only by the maintenance of a few major projects started by companies that didn't realize what a bad business decision Scala was.
I heard this nonsense even before Spark and other projects just added a further bunch of tens of thousands of fairly direct (developer) users and millions of indirect end users.

It worked for most companies, regardless of it being more of a pain in the arse than the hoped you could actually get shit done with it.

You maybe aren't old to realize this, but this whole pattern of expecting insanely easy projects due to a new language and then realizing it's still hard work also happened with Delphi, Java, C++ etc.

What ultimately decided the viability of languages is whether they end up with niches and users, and Scala definitely has these.

> it's just too fucking hard for 90% of programmers to grok (that includes me, and I like functional languages), making it too expensive to find programmers for
Functional programming is annoying in general, but there is no easier choice to use the cores in a machine or even more, on a network.

And it's very clear Scala and its frameworks have been *by far* most successful at actually "getting shit done" across a broad range of applications.

You're free to be with the crowd that hopes for an easier replacement, but usually transitions from a situation like this is a matter a decade or more, not years.

>>59967335
Hi, Terry

>>59964940
C# is a good language.

Python is a pile of donkey doodoo because of whitespace being important.

C# gives you the freedom to write disgusting, unreadable code that still works.

>>59967400
>he doesn't know about mono, Roslyn et al

https://github.com/dotnet/roslyn

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>>59967400
OMG, the .NET framework isn't free and open source.... and was touched by the finger of Munkrosooft...BOTNET

That you, Rich?

>>59967618

An OS or DB system are not comparable to a language -- that's more comparable to Spark (which probably will continue to be used until a better alternative comes along). You need to use Ruby to use Rails. You don't need to use C to use Linux or Scala to use Spark.

> I heard this nonsense even before Spark and other projects just added a further bunch of tens of thousands of fairly direct (developer) users and millions of indirect end users.

And Scala is young. Spark was released at the peak of its trendiness like 3 years ago. It was an experiment, one with less reason to believe in it than Ruby, and the results are in: it failed.

Scala is like Ruby: a bright flash of light, before dwindling into the "that was a cool, exciting time," part of programmers' minds and off of company's roadmaps except the occasional straggler or dingling hopeful.

> You maybe aren't old to realize this, but this whole pattern of expecting insanely easy projects due to a new language and then realizing it's still hard work also happened with Delphi, Java, C++ etc.
First, the argument isn't "new language makes projects easy," it's that Scala is just too hard. Harder than C++. It's just too fucking hard to get or even train competent Scala programmers. C++ is only still around regardless of its unique capability to fulfill performance and systems niches (oh, and C++ did make things easier in these niches than before).

> You're free to be with the crowd that hopes for an easier replacement,

And there are easier replacements. Go, for example. Except Go is already proven to be a viable language when regarding business aspects (can't find a Go dev? No problem. Train your own easily).

>>59967774
Python has bigger issues than white space.

Ever tried to use it to write something that's more than gluing some libraries together, and maintain it over a few iterations of API changes? Ouch.

>>59967799
>>59967809
(You)

It's pretty good, even better than java. I really like that the fact you can convert VB.net program to C# with ease. Thanks .net for that.

>>59967852
Frankly, I gave it up before considering making any important programs. Felt more like a limited tool along the lines of HTML than a full thingamajig.

>>59964940
Learn F#.

And you'll never come back to C#.

>>59967843
> You don't need to use C to use Linux or Scala to use Spark.
Yes, and yet the majority of third party things still will be written in the most common "native" language -C for the Linux kernel, Scala for Spark. It's just easiest.

> Spark was released at the peak of its trendiness like 3 years ago.
Nope, released 7 years ago and became useful some time and fully "trendy" in like 2014-15.

> It was an experiment, one with less reason to believe in it than Ruby, and the results are in: it failed.
> Scala is like Ruby: a bright flash of light,
Wat? Ruby+Rails was used by ten hipsters and about two big websites that pretty rapidly again migrated for performance issues.

Spark on the other hand has a very dominant place in the big data / cloud processing industry - billions of dollars in existing investments depend on it and it seem like companies mostly are completely dropping financial restraints on switching over to this kind of cloud stuff now that they see it works after actual years of use in production.

> First, the argument isn't "new language makes projects easy," it's that Scala is just too hard.
Doesn't reconcile with the comparative extreme ease with which it took over a whole industry that was extremely troublesome before when it tried to do the same with C++, plain Java / C# and so on.

> And there are easier replacements. Go, for example.
Go? That's about as much a replacement as Ruby. It probably has its uses, but seriously, it doesn't compare or really compete at this point.

>>59964940
>Is it a good second language?
Its a good first language if you dont know java because 90% of all jobs requires knowledge in java/c#
>is it a good language in comparison with C and C++?
Different use cases.
You wouldnt write performance critical software in C#, just like you wouldnt write business applications in C.

>>59966569
I missed C+=

DOT NET
COREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>59967905
You can even convert those into C++.Net with a few bumps on the road but still fairly easy.

>>59964940

no

dont fall for the M$ meme. Their goal is to get everyone to use their shitty .net frameworks. Say no to the monopoly

>>59966569
What about C--

C# is nice. Not as performant as Java, but still nice.

>>59964940

It's a great language that is constantly being revised for the better, open sourced, multiplatform, not as verbose as Java, and is the flagship language in a great IDE (Visual Studio).

It has some smell to it since MS hasn't really showcased it within Windows OS an

>>59971235

....Windows OS and it's largely used in bland Enterprise Software (shudder to think).

>>59964940
C# is OK. It's modern and reasonably fast (faster than Java for sure). One problem is it's tied to Poosoft and x86 Windows. (inb4 "muh open source poo! muh Mono poo!") Another problem is that .NET started out as a good idea, but like everything else Microsoft has turned into an overly complicated, over engineered pile of shit.

>>59966569
>All the C's are great
C# is not 'a C.' It has nothing in common with C or C++ save a few minor syntax rules. C# is VB.NET with syntax that looks a little more like C++. That's all.

>>59967346
>the world is using Scala
Thanks for the laugh.

Java is S-L-O-W and, apart from Android, is absolutely fucking worthless for any application with a UI. There are far better cross platform options. Its "better libraries" also tend to make .NET look simple and well engineered by comparison. Enterprise FizzBuzz is not just a meme, it's the heart and soul of Java coding style. OOP is actually a fantastic paradigm but it has a bad name right now among younger developers and academics BECAUSE of fucking Java frameworks.

Java is also the pajeet language. If you want to smell curry for the rest of your life, become a Java dev.

And Scala? Scala is even slower than Java. Absolute shit.

>>59972061

isn't Java faster than C#?

>>59972095
Nope.

>inb4 someone posts a special snowflake synthetic benchmark

In the real world Java performance is shit. You can optimize a library call or class to perform well in a narrow case (i.e. a benchmark) in any language. Even Python is fast on some narrow use cases. Doesn't change the general use cases where Java gets its ass handed to it by C, C++, and C#/VB.

C is the fastest, followed closely by C++. C#/VB are a step down, but still reasonably fast in most cases. From what I've seen in the real world Java is a good order of magnitude off C# speeds.

>inb4 muh JIT lag!

Java's poor general performance has nothing to do with JIT lag.

>>59972061
Name few great languages to learn - I'm a newbie in programming - I've started with C++ and soon after I feel comfortable to write useful code for other people I will start also start learning C focusing hard on both of them until the end of this year - but I'm thinking of what other languages should I figure out.

C# is the only language I enjoy programming in.

C++ is too complicated
VB6 is too old
VBA is hell
Python is too hard to read because it isn't typed

>>59972494
Try languages that have strong type inference systems. If you like OO there is Scala, if you like FP there is Haskell, and if you like best of both worlds try F#.

>>59972203
>>59972061
Don't listen to this guy. He shows up all the time in /dpt/ and where ever C# and Java are mentioned in other threads to remind you how much he hates Java. Java has some performance issues in some applications, but it's not slow by any means. He loves to bring up the "real world", but never quantifies anything. Also doesn't realize that his bigotry towards Indian developers makes him sound like a fucking retard. (newsflash - there are just as many Indian C# and C++ developers as Java. They gravitate towards whatever is marketable / in-demand and OOP is super popular). At this point I would normally mention the reputable benchmarks that show C# getting edged out by Java, or solid metrics from a number of programming challenge sites that show Java submissions almost always faster than C# submissions on almost all domains, but there's not point with this ass clown.

>>59964940

No it's shit. Learn Python and C/C++

>>59964940
i FUCKING HATE the fact that in c# method names are usually written with a capical letter first. FFS method names are written camel case starting with a lower case letter. this rustles my jimmies really hard everytime i see it.

>>59973290

camel case in general is garbage

>>59973307
what do you use instead, underscores or hyphens?

>>59972494
>>59972631
>Python isn't typed
Jesus christ this ignorance

>>59972854
>or solid metrics from a number of programming challenge sites that show Java submissions almost always faster than C# submissions on almost all domains

All times below taken from HackerRank submissions on the first page of the Leaderboard for each named challenge. The times are for the worst test case in seconds.

Almost Sorted
https://www.hackerrank.com/challenges/almost-sorted/
C++: 0.03
C#: 0.06
Java: 0.65

Climbing the Leaderboard
https://www.hackerrank.com/challenges/climbing-the-leaderboard
C++: 0.04
C#: 0.58
Java: 1.87

Sansa and XOR
https://www.hackerrank.com/challenges/sansa-and-xor
C++: 0.07
C#: 0.24
Java: 0.95

Grid Challenge:
https://www.hackerrank.com/challenges/grid-challenge
C++: 0s (i.e. < 1/100th of a second)
C#: 0.1
Java: 0.37

I can post more, but the results are consistently the same. Java is the slowest of the three.

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>>59974116

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>>59974116
Here's another example. leetcode btw. I literally grabbed three solved solutions. Not sure if you're cherry-picking? or what...

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>>59974116
Need I go on? I could probably pick 50 more challenges from random domains and I'd see Java > C# in almost all.

>>59967288
Use dotnet core. It's the officially supported version of mono. And use whatever editor you want. Code isn't the only C# capable editor for linux.

C# is not as popular as java but it has better update support. Can be god and bad depending on your view. More features is better vs simple fundamental features.

Personally I think C# will run circles around java in the coming years and the recent free features such as vs community, azure free trial + azure web + sql free price plan for 8mb storage will encourage newcomers and directly address cost problems that c# has had in the past.

Also just a heads up: vs is the best ide on the face of the earth and has better intellisense / debugging for a wide range of languages than even their own native ide's. If you are using eclipse or paying for webstorm you are the pajeet.

>>59964940
C# manages to be slower, uglier and less portable than Java.

No it is not a good language, please avoid it and use Java instead.

>>59964940
better than java

>>59975952
shut up pajeet

>>59975279
>>59975303
>>59975316
>doesn't name the site
>doesn't provide links
>graph of all submissions including inefficient shit ones
>not best times of leading submissions on hardest test cases
Try again.

Also: you accuse me of cherry picking, but I suspect that's what you're doing. Namely picking tests that stress library functions more than code compiled to byte code and run on the JIT or CLR.

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>>59973290
>mfw literally who cares

>>59964940
It's poor man's F#.

>>59967414
Advertising how you have SBT is like advertising having herpes, frankly.

>>59973290
It came from Delphi, except Delphi wasn't case sensitive.

Noob here with a question you've probably been asked a million times.

What are some good resources to learn the language?? Was wanting to learn
.net and c# because I always see the two required together.

>>59974027
Try Ocaml and learn what type inference really is.