Linux complaints

>>59954237
Why are you even messing around in there?

>>59954237
>config files
>/usr/share
>/usr/lib/
>/usr/include
you're retarded

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>>59954254
Because matlab was not installing correctly with the right execution permissions so I had to go in and change them manually

>>59954287
>pic related

I've had to edit cmake files in there to get certain programs to build correctly

>>59954237
>/home/user/bin
>/home/user
kek

>>59954351
I try to store everything I build from source in ~/bin and 95% of my configs are dotfiles in ~/ so I don't really know what you are getting at here

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>>59954237
install gobolinux

It is made by retards for retards with no proper standard of doing things.

>>59955967
so fucking comfy

can lennart make this the default for all distros?

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>>59954237
also /usr/sbin

probably a few others

do not get me started on python site-packages and pip

Why there are no drives in linux

Daily reminder that /usr was meant for user's files

>>59956031
>do not get me started on python site-packages and pip

FUCK PIP

I can never figure out where the fuck it stores anything or when it chooses to conflict with my package manager, EVEN WHEN I AM USING VIRTUALENV

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>>59954237
>Also general linux complaint thread.
>usr
>not where the user directories are

>>59956055
>>59956091
Is this bait?

>>59956073
donot get me wrong it is better than nothing

I reccomend using pip install --user though, and let the package manager install what you have packages for

pip3.5 install etc for different python versions

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>>59954329
>.cmake
that's not a configuration file

>not having /bin/laden

>>59957754
>automatically comes up upon system boot
>automatically created at boot if it doesn't exist
>tiny app lets you nuke it...GRAPHICALLY
>then recreate it and nuke it AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN ad infinitum

Yeah, the directory tree always struck me as a mess.

Who knew backwards compatibility with 1970s operating systems would be so messy?

>>59954237
>using a secret club OS

It's your own damn fault, my friend.

>>59954237
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filesystem_Hierarchy_Standard

The /usr level directories were added because ancient Unix systems had very limited storage so the devs just mounted more storage volumes under /usr.

Linux has these redundant directories because it's unfortunate enough to compatible with Unix which also has them.

>>59956046
>no drives in linux
what?

>>59954237
educate yourself
http://tldp.org/LDP/Linux-Filesystem-Hierarchy/html/index.html

Some of the directories make sense like
Second party stuff goes in $prefix
While third party stuff goes in $prefix/local

But user/share is a fucking mess

>>59956091
it used to be, senpai

>>59956021

There is a package called gobohide which let you do the same thing on non gobolinux distros

http://gobolinux.org/?page=doc/articles/gobohide

https://github.com/gobolinux/GoboHide

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3519952
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9554134
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13011594

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>>59955967
>>59958497
thats beautiful. it looks like those """"linux"""" systems showed in csi shows

>>59955967
>distro solves annoyance in a beautiful way
>will never become mainstream
>can't use snowflake distro because snowflake
linux is such a curse

>>59954237
in arch, all binaries are in /usr/bin
tell me, which one folder holds all your binaries in windows?

>>59956031
you shouldn't be using pythons' package manager in linux, linux already has a package manager
it's useful on things like windows, but just messy on linux

>>59959349
a lot of python packages do not exist for the distributions package manager
sometimes you also do not want it globally installed

writing say an ebuild is a bit more effort than doing pip install --user

>>59959366
do whatever you want, just don't complain about something you chose to do

>>59956073
Pip install --user helps

Microsoft Windows doesn't have this problem.

>>59958297
> GNU + Linux
> backwards compatible

>>59958436
I think he's asking about drive letters like D: E: etc.

>>59961021
Well Unix is backwards and it's compatible with that so it seems to add up.

>>59954237
How did apple manage to make BSD so user friendly?

>>59961116
They bought NeXT and touched up NeXTSTEP's UI

>>59956046
>>59961036
"drive letters" are just mountpoints
the device and partition nodes are not exposed to the visible filesystem like they are in linux

basically;
windows device node: \\.\PhysicalDrive0
linux device node: /dev/sda
windows mountpoint: C:\
linux mountpoint: / (or any directory under it)

i was a bit thrown off by the whole single filesystem (VFS) thing in linux first time i used it as well, but it makes sense in its own way

>>59961885
You can mount drives under directories in windows as well but no one does it.

Okay but seriously why in the fuck does linux have all this /dev/ttyS0 /dev/ttyAT0 nonsense bullshits?

>>59961917
yea, that's true

>>59954237
Ah, so I'm not insane?
I'm new to Linux, and I thought there was something I wasn't understanding. It's just stupid, I get it now.

>>59954237
>/applications
>/library
>/developer
>/support
>/network
>/users
>/volumes
OS X does not have this problem.

One thing that''s always pissed me off about linux is battery life. Why is battery life in linux so shit? I get linux runs on fucking everything from toasters to supercomputers and they can't optimise it for everything but holy shit even winshit with Butt Fuck Telemetry TM has better battery life.

>>59962287
>I get linux runs on fucking everything from toasters to supercomputers
you answered yourself

>>59954399
>~/user/bin

top tier kek

>>59962287
>>59962311
Even with TLP optimisation, it's shit. Plus winshit runs on a ton of devices as well, I get ~2 more hrs battery life in winblows than linux.

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>>59962222
Yes it does.

>>59962287
install tlp.
thank me later.

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>>59954237
I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you're referring to as Linux, is in fact, GNU/Linux, or as I've recently taken to calling it, GNU plus Linux. Linux is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning GNU system made useful by the GNU corelibs, shell utilities and vital system components comprising a full OS as defined by POSIX.

Many computer users run a modified version of the GNU system every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of GNU which is widely used today is often called "Linux", and many of its users are not aware that it is basically the GNU system, developed by the GNU Project.

There really is a Linux, and these people are using it, but it is just a part of the system they use. Linux is the kernel: the program in the system that allocates the machine's resources to the other programs that you run. The kernel is an essential part of an operating system, but useless by itself; it can only function in the context of a complete operating system. Linux is normally used in combination with the GNU operating system: the whole system is basically GNU with Linux added, or GNU/Linux. All the so-called "Linux" distributions are really distributions of GNU/Linux.

>>59962417
No, you piece of shit. It's just Linux.

>>59962417
No, Richard, it's 'Linux', not 'GNU/Linux'. The most important contributions that the FSF made to Linux were the creation of the GPL and the GCC compiler. Those are fine and inspired products. GCC is a monumental achievement and has earned you, RMS, and the Free Software Foundation countless kudos and much appreciation.

Following are some reasons for you to mull over, including some already answered in your FAQ.

One guy, Linus Torvalds, used GCC to make his operating system (yes, Linux is an OS -- more on this later). He named it 'Linux' with a little help from his friends. Why doesn't he call it GNU/Linux? Because he wrote it, with more help from his friends, not you. You named your stuff, I named my stuff -- including the software I wrote using GCC -- and Linus named his stuff. The proper name is Linux because Linus Torvalds says so. Linus has spoken. Accept his authority. To do otherwise is to become a nag. You don't want to be known as a nag, do you?

I'd like to point out that we Linux and GNU users shouldn't be fighting among ourselves over naming other people's software. But what the heck, I'm in a bad mood now. I think I'm feeling sufficiently obnoxious to make the point that GCC is so very famous and, yes, so very useful only because Linux was developed. In a show of proper respect and gratitude, shouldn't you and everyone refer to GCC as 'the Linux compiler'? Or at least, 'Linux GCC'? Seriously, where would your masterpiece be without Linux? Languishing with the HURD?

>>59961885
>the device and partition nodes are not exposed to the visible filesystem like they are in linux
Not the anon you were typing at, but this piqued my interest, so I looked into how to view Windows device nodes; looks like the good stuff is only viewable with a kernel debugger, but you can see some stuff in the Registry: HKLM/SYSTEM/CurrentControlSet/Enum/<device type>/<instance identifier>.

Neat.

BSD's file system isn't as retarded as the one in most linux distros

>dude let's put everything under /usr lmao

>>59962630
yea, windows (NT) is a strange beast, internally, windows is very different, it's just presented the way it is because of legacy support
running win32 software on windows nt is not unlike what wine does, win32 is a layer that runs atop NT, nothing a typical user does ever interacts directly with NT

>>59962699
>tfw you realize your current OS sits atop the desiccated electronic bones of OSes going back to NT, or even DOS

>>59962287
Either you are using resource intensive WMs like GNOME and Unity or your hardware isn't optimized for Linux.

>>59962340
You probably have an older laptop
Anything 15w ulv runs equally on tlp Linux and windows 10

>>59962717
>"going back to NT"
current windows is still NT, it's just not called that "on the box" anymore
but otherwise yea, microsoft can't really drop/replace things completely, lest they risk breaking old software

>>59962748
You think there's any chance they might make a clean break at some point, start from pseudo-scratch?

>>59962748
>lest they risk breaking old software
Which they do anyway. Windows 7 was pretty much a "fuck everything before XP and most stuff after it" release until updates came.

Hierarchical filesystems were a mistake.

>>59962760
What's the alternative?

>>59962766
>Hierarchical filesystems
Leaving everything lying around in the root, like in the old mac days.

>>59962753
they would need to somehow be forced to do so
legacy support is pretty much the reason people still use windows

>>59962758
they try not to, while a lot of stuff does break, it's honestly pretty amazing how much keeps working
it's absolutely not an easy task to make something both "modern" and "runs hacked-together software that uses long-obsolete functions and hasn't been updated in 20 years"

I think most of this thread is summarized in 4 letters

RTFM

>>59962800
Unironically, yes.
Files should be identifiable by a unique hash by the filesystem and then sorted through a relation database.

>>59962892
>dragging databases into filesystems
shiggy

>>59962892
as long as I can view my data in some sort of tree-like structure, I'm in!

>>59962892
That is pretty much what a hierarchical filesystem is supposed to do you fucking idiot
Unless you're suggesting something like WinFS which is never going to work, for a lot of reasons.

>>59954237
It started off simple, /bin for binaries, /etc for anything those binaries needed, /var for their output and working files etc, and /home for whatever the user wanted

Then there was /sbin for system binaries, /usr for less essential programs, /usr/share for platform independant stuff, /usr/local for the opposite of that, /usr/lib for shared libraries, /usr/lib64 because 64-bit was unimaginatively bolted on, and /opt to let 3rd party programs do whatever the fuck they want

>>59962993
i thought /sbin was for scripts

>>59962993
So say you download a source and build it, and there's no installer, are you suppose to split up the output binary, resources, libraries into those folders? Or just stick the whole mess in /home/bin and call it a day

I like the Linux filesystem...

>>59962993
Is /var/ like... Temporary files?

>>59954329
>mathlab
I gave up on trying to make it run on Linux

>>59963037
they're stuff that changes a lot mostly

>>59954237
Does it even matter? Just put them all in your $PATH and forget about the actual path of the command.

>>59963018
I could be wrong but I thought it was for system administration
>>59963026
If you can do `sudo make install` just do that, otherwise just build it wherever and put a link to the executable in ~/bin

>>59963037
No, that's /tmp

>>59963018
/sbin are system binaries. Some systems only add it to the $PATH if you are root or using sudo

>>59963037
Amongst other things, like logs, and Apache defaults to serving /var/www

Just don't mess with it. Use your package manager, /opt or your ~/bin.

>>59963081
So what is the difference between var and tmp? I know its a dumb question, I just want a conversation ;_;

So long story short, use BSD and not a retarded cousin of UNIX.

>>59962766
There's hash based filesystems. Used for stuff like CDNs or stuff like that.

>>59963101
Well nothing bad aught to happen should you delete the contents of /tmp, but there's probably more useful stuff in /var. Some systems mount /tmp as ramfs for that reason

>>59963101
Tmp files are deleted on reboot or scheduled. Never expect a file there to last too long. It's usually in a ram filesystem, not your disk.

Var is for files used by the programs, they put them there and they can expect them to be there. You can find stuff from logs to database files to VM filesystems.

>>59963081
>>59963067
http://man.openbsd.org/hier
ah you're both right

>>59962916
>implying a fs isn't a DB

shiggy

>>59954237
Let's go through those to see what my system actually has:

>/bin
A symlink. Not a directory.
>/usr/bin
Where they should be.
>/usr/share/bin
Don't have this.
>/sbin
Again, symlink.
>/usr/local/bin
Pretty stupid.
>/usr/share/local/bin
Don't have this.
>/opt
This is literally the entire point of opt.
>/home/user/bin
This makes sense, where else would user specific binaries go, not that I've ever met anyone who actually does this.

>/usr/share
I think calling the contents of this "configuration files" is pushing it a bit.
>/etc
Where they should be.
>/usr/lib
Not what you think it is.
>/usr/lib64
Not what you think it is.
>/usr/include
Not what you think it is.
>/usr/etc
Mine's empty. Would be pretty stupid otherwise.
>/opt
This is literally the entire point of opt.
>/home/user/.
This makes sense, where else would user specific config go? I guess you could put them in a /home/user/etc/ folder but that seems like splitting hairs.

In conclusion, two of those are legitimate complaints, at least on Arch, but only one of them is utilized. Maybe other distributions are worse I don't know, but it seems like you're reaching (and don't understand half the shit you're looking at).

>/home/$USER/bin

it's called ~/.local you fucks ~/.local/bin, etc.

>>59963247
it's so retarded

i wish there was a variable so all the freedesktop shit could go under ~/local instead, i use a similar layout myself

>>59963218
>>/home/user/bin
>This makes sense, where else would user specific binaries go, not that I've ever met anyone who actually does this.
I put mine in /home/user/.bin/
they're just scripts and it's added to my $PATH

>>59954237
~/AppData/Local
~/AppData/Roaming
~/AppData/LocalLow
~/Documents/GayProgram.conf
~/ProgramData/GayProgram.conf
HKEY_GAY_PROGRAM
~/Documents/Games/GayProgram.conf
~/Documents/My Games/GayProgram.conf
~/Program Files/GayProgram.exe
~/Program Files(x86)/GayProgram.exe
~/AppData/Roaming/GayProgram.lnk -> ~/AppData/Roaming/GayProgram/dist/1.3409/exec/gayprogram.exe

daily reminder that macOS is the only one that has gotten it right.

>>59963834
>daily reminder that macOS is the only one that has gotten it right.
it's a little difficult to compare macos with windows/linux in this case, as macos effectively started from scratch in 2000, allowing them to disregard anything that wasn't relevant or ideal at the time

if anything, the fact that they needed a reset suggests that they got it so wrong that it made more sense to start over

>>59964046
Actually OS classic was pretty nice as a standalone system, they hid all the nasty stuff in resource forks that had their own mini database format, so each program was just one icon that the user could drop wherever they want just like today.

Of course, this same thing meant it didn't play well with the internet or command line tools etc. But the old mac filesystem was comfy in isolation.

>>59962941
>WinFS which is never going to work, for a lot of reasons.
WinFS didn't work because
>Microsoft,

There are other projects in that direction, like TagFS. And it's a really good idea, because data almost never relates to other data hierarchically (only), and metadata and data relationships are so important that they should be at the very base of the system.

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>>59954237
>/bin
---->fundamental commands for the OS to function
>/sbin
---->fundamental admin commands
>/usr/bin
---->Most normal user level commands
>/usr/sbin
---->Most normal admin level commands
>/usr/local/bin
---->Empty by default, where custom scripts are placed for all users to use
>/usr/local/sbin
---->Empty by default, where custom admin scripts are placed
>/home/faggotJoe/bin
---->Where users can place their own scripts for only them to use

Learn how to path you fucking faggot

>>59955967
>>59958497
Holy fuck... I'm switching to Linux soon, and this was one of the main things that bothered me.
Definitely going to check out GoboHide. That's fucking beautiful.

>>59964379
Just because you can explain it doesn't mean it's good. It's not intuitive

>>59963834
Thanks for this. Windows's hierarchy is a fucking pita compared to linux's and only the dann Microsoft fanboys pretend otherwise, and not even count in windows doesn't have a proper package manage. The damn store is full of crap and while chocolatey is a huge step in the right direction it practically only executes the same installers silently.

>>59964465
>It's not intuitive
Seems pretty intuitive to me. Maybe you're just to unintelligent too use Ganoo plus Linux.

>>59957754
underappreciated

>>59963045
What?
>download .deb
>dpkg -i
Never failed for matlab

>>59954329
>with the right execution permissions
yea what the fuck is up iwth this?
My ifup script for kvm always gets reset to non-executable and its starting to piss me off.

>>59963026
give it its' own subdir under /opt and create a symbolic link to the binary in /usr/local/bin is what I'd do.

25 years is a long time for a set of distributions

you start to collect idiosyncracies without a central guiding force.

>>59954237
/bin -> bare minimum set of programs required for a user to use the system, such as bash, ls, cp
/usr/bin -> additional

/sbin -> essential programs that are run by root and during the system bootup process
/usr/sbin -> additional

/usr/local/* -> user addition, e.g. from ./configure && make install

>>59966603
>/bin -> bare minimum set of programs required for a user to use the system, such as bash, ls, cp
why isn't this in /kernel/bin or something?
>/usr/bin -> additional
why isn't this in /users/username/bin or /programs/?
>/sbin -> essential programs that are run by root and during the system bootup process
why isn't this /kernel/loading or something?

I get that you can explain what they are, but it's not intuitive at all. I don't get why so few people don't care to improve Linux and just go "THIS IS THE WAY WE DO THINGS BECAUSE IT'S HOW WE'VE DONE THINGS".

>>59966667
>why isn't this in /kernel/bin or something?
not part of the kernel
>why isn't this in /users/username/bin
because they're not user specific, they're installed system-wide
>or /programs/?
name too long
>why isn't this /kernel/loading or something?
again, not part of the kernel
>it's not intuitive at all.
it's intuitive if you know how the system works.

>>59966603
That's correct but Linux doesn't use the root level directories like /bin and /sbin I believe. Or at least it has no actual need for them. In a typical Linux distro the applications are all managed by outside developers so they're all supposed to be in the /usr/bin and /usr/sbin directories. The root level directories are for compatibility with other *nixes

>>59968057
It gives you the option to have /usr in a

squashfs

image.

But 90% of users won't ever confront the need.

>>59959266
C:\Windows\system32\

>>59954237
historical baggage

NixOS makes this different

>>59954237
~$ locate <gayshitimlookingfor> | grep <criteria>

Pleb.

>>59969483
>locate
>not which

>>59954237
the configs for named are also in /var/lib/ sometimes (dunno much but this is opensuse)

What would it take for Red Hat or Canonical to switch to the GoboLinux filesystem?

>>59962344
These are hidden symlinks to other dir's on the system to not break shit that likes to be *nixy

>>59963112
So long story short, nothing newer than haswell 1 will work on BSD

>>59970642
An actual need. They won't change everything just because someone who used Windows from childhood is confused by new things.

>update a program
>it updates 300 random libraries and other programs

t-thanks?

>>59962320
What?

That would be ~/bin

>>59970642
GoboLinux and OSX symlink the old *nix directories to their new "standard" directories so compatibility wouldn't even be broken in the process. I think the reason no one has bothered doing something like this is the lack of motivation. It's easy to stick with the current setup than it is to change and disrupt the workflow of other people.

Tiered account privileges and dynamically linked libraries are the reason. As a user ~/ is the only thing you need to worry about. These are the only binary paths available to you.

printenv | grep PATH

As an admin

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>>59970644
NO.

test

If you compiled and built from scratch you can define where the ld linker will look

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>>59954237

>>59955967
more like homolinux amiriteoramiritelolololol fag