Dropout programmer

>>59953715
It depends entirely on your attitude and effort.

Any position that goes through an HR person will be closed off to you. HR people need to validate their positions so they only accept people with formal credentials to interviews

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>>59953715
if you think college is hard then wait until you have to work in a factory 12 hours a day 6 day a week for minimum wage.especially with your loan.my advice to you is to shut the fuck up,accept that you not gonna have a life for 3-4 years,study like crazy then get a comfy job with amazing pay.believe me if you drop out you gonna regret it.

>>59953769
It's not that college is hard I feel like I'm wasting my time... in college it's 4 years to learn how to program with java??? I taught myself python within a month

>>59953830
thats great and all but without a degree,you are still fucked.also you may learned python and java in your free time but you are not gonna learn uni math in your free time.or algorithms.i could do the sum the first 2 000 000 primes problem since i was 15 yet i still went through college.

>>59953830
>they are going to teach me java for four years
If this is true you are going to a scam school

>>59953957

this

Where are you going, OP? It sure as hell isn't MIT or UVA.

Which online school are you "dropping out" of?

Do you know people already? Because that's the real point of college. Anyone with a couple brain cells and learn programming in a minuscule amount of time, it's the networking and people you meet that will help you in the long run. If you have this already, you're wasting your money.

>>59954015
not really i plan on contributing to open source shit and putting whatever programs i make public to get exposure

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>>59953891
>i could do the sum the first 2 000 000 primes problem since i was 15

>>59954074

Answer the question about where you're going. I haven't even heard of a college teaching java for all four years. That's insane.

>>59954080
You can write an algorithm that can find 2.000.000 primes instead of 4? Amazing if you ask me.

>>59954074
Stay in school. At this point if you don't have a portfolio ready to show on the spot and prospective offers you have no business dropping out. Suck it up, network, suck your teachers dicks, built your portfolio ASAP, do whatever you have to do to get noticed. Take advantage of your school's resources. They're there for a reason.

>>59954107
its a UW school. i was more so explaining taking english, sciences, public speaking, etc feels like a waste

>>59953830

Do you know how networking work?

Do you know how OSes work?

Do you know how databases work?

Do you know how to write an interpreter?

>>59954131
yea i plan on doing alot of open source stuff and making my own programs to add to my portfolio while working 40 hours a week at my current job

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>>59954110
with this reading comprehension skills i have to ask you how old are you?

>>59954146

Oh so it's not four years of java, but 50% non-related courses and 25% required and 25% electives.

That's standard anon. Standard. And yes it is a waste. Just wait until you have to take a health or diversity class.

>>59953715
at least in germany you're basically fucked without a degree; the only option would be becoming a freelancer

>>59954195
but is it a stretch to say that if i contribute to open source shit and build up my portfolio that i could have an entry level job in around a year instead of the 4 years college takes

>>59954239
As long as you keep your ear close to the ground and go to job fairs and meet people you could be fine.

>>59953830
A CS degree tells your employer that you have spent countless hours learning, practicing, and becoming good at what they want you to do. Whether or not you can learn it on your own doesn't matter to them unless you can prove it somehow.

>>59954180
What if I tell you I'm your father?

>>59954239
Listen I'm just going to level with you. Yes you'll be able to get a job, but without that stupid piece of paper you will eventually hit a hard cap on how far you can advance because eventually they will just start passing you up for promotions because you don't have a degree. So if you are fine being a low level code monkey you're entire life then you'll be fine but if you aspire for greater things you'll eventually find yourself back in college anyways.

>>59954168
Do you have a gf?

>>59954146
Those classes aren't a waste. Being able to effectively communicate is essential to any work you may do. Not every compooper job is SEO, and you need to know enough math and science to at least be able to articulate the way your programs functions and work with other experts that need you to write programs.

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>>59954290
dad,please go back to elementary school.

>>59954180
>The first 2.000.000 primes
>The primes in first 2.000.000 integers
Gee, I wonder what is the difference??
Go back to high school, retard.

>>59954299
(Not OP)
This is the exact opposite of what people in industry have told me. They insist that it makes it very difficult to get a job to begin with, but once you've got a couple years experience, that's all anyone looks at and degrees become irrelevant.

>>59954282
>A CS degree tells your employer that you have spent countless hours learning, practicing, and becoming good at what they want you to do.
No it really doesn't. CS degrees (around here at least) involve fuck all programming and even when they do it's invariably in groups, allowing weaker programmers to coast by on their friends. Plenty of people can get to the end of fourth year scarcely able to do Fizzbuzz.

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>>59954334
what in the holy mary fuck are you talking about?
collect the prime numbers from 0 till 2 000 000 in an array using a for loop with an if else inside then sum them with another for loop.what cant you understand in this like literally how old are you 12?go the fuck back to /v/

>>59954374
Holy shit, not only (you) can't differentiate between simple sentences, (you) can't also read what is in front of (you). It wasn't shills that was shitting up this board, it was fucktards like (you).

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>>59954409
this much damage controlling.go back to the gpu war threads "big boy"

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>>59954434

>>59954239

To some a degree means you lived off daddy's money for four years wasting your time. That's essentially what it is now for a non-Ivy degree.

If you really are talented and motivated, yes you are wasting your time and money. But if you were, then I daresay you wouldn't be on 4chan making a thread about it, you'd be doing what you allegedly want to do with the rest of your life, which is programming.

Get off this shitty website and go write something. We'll test it for you and tell you the truth. But stop wasting time, unless there's something else going on.

>>59953830
kek you are a retard enjoy being hobo,

>>59953715
I managed to pull it off but I'm legitimately better at it than 95% of people

Also my salary is lower than what it would be if I just sucked it up and graduated from Visual Studio school like a good goy

YMMV

>>59954374
Why not just sum+=prime?

>>59954304
>haha I may not be competent enough to work in the field but at least I have a gf

>>59954722
any advice youd give? like what should be in my portfolio, how much should i contribute to open source etc

>>59954742
nah you should extend the ICollectible interface for that

>>59953715

dunno if bait but you're a fucking retard and I hope you do drop out and you inevitably end up working at a McDonald's for the rest of your life because you think that all it takes to get a job is knowing a bit of C# and Python.

If you can't handle college you won't be able to handle a job.

Grow up and learn some responsibility

>>59954780
>extend
What.
When did I even mention Java? The assignment asks for the sum of all primes under 2 million, why not just sum each prime to a total whenever you find them?

>>59954742
thats how i do it too.when i already have the array with the prime numbers collected i do:
ulong SumOfPrimes = 0;
for (int i; i < Primes.Length;i++)
{
SumOfPrimes += Primes[i];
}

[spoiler] sorry i dont know how to docode blocks on 4chinz [/spoiler]

>>59954353
>No it doesn't
>Anecdotal evidence

>>59954812
or you could read the thread instead of coming in like an autist. i said im not dropping out because of college being difficult, rather im dropping out because i think i could find a job within a year if i contribute to open source codes and build my portfolio up. 1 year > 4 years of college

>>59954816
Otherwise how would you even know how long the array should be? Sure, there's some sort-of-repetable occurrance of primes, but it's still a wild assumption. A list would be better for this task, but again, why.

>>59954775
disclaimer: I'm from Canada so the environment might be different where you are. we don't have a college racket here and AFAIK that also reflects on the community so you might have a harder time than me all things considered.

for starters, know what the fuck you're talking about. learn as much as you possibly can. as others have said, HR people will probably just bin your resume. your ticket into the field is by making the right impression on actual engineers.

prioritize getting relevant experience over having a dream job. work on certifications also, those are great to have.

you can accept a less-than-stellar job offer (eg help desk) if it lands you into a team where mobility is possible. this means help desk for a company with a fairly big IT department is OK. that's what I did; initially answered the phone and now work as a software dev + occasionally Linux sysadmin full time, because I was able to perform those tasks when the need arose. shit like Geek Squad and call centers are dead ends, obviously.

once you're actually INTO the field and have some contacts, you may rise through the ranks strictly via networking but that's largely circumstantial and it's best to have other options (eg certs and shit).

leave yourself a door back into education. you might have or want to go back to college for multiple reasons. finish your semester with the best grades you can even if you decide to drop out.

>>59954831
Have you got anything better?

>>59954853

yeah you're gonna find yourself a nice call center job because no one is going to hire you over the BA student who understands the theory behind CS

>>59954951
ive heard many kids who only have a degree are barely competent in the single language they know... i would be coherent in many languages and have code that I've written i could show employers

>>59954945
Regardless of location, earning a degree in CS shows that you took and passed classes where you understand the foundation for CS and theory, and if you aren't a retard and graduate with a 3.5>, recruiters will suck your cock and start you off with bigger salaries as compared to a code monkey that is self taught and has to work his way up

>>59955015
ive heard many kids who dont have a degree that drop out and end up eating shit for the rest of their life

>>59955018
this is correct

I make 4$ an hour less than the CS grad I work with does and we do the same fucking work

being a dropout and having a job is possible but honestly I don't recommend it

>>59955033
and 90% of those deadbeats had no ambition

>>59955018
I'm not doubting that recruiters will believe you are more competent if you have a degree. I'm doubting that they're right.

I've carried talentless hacks through several consecutive years by just taking the group project away from them and coming back with it done solo. I have spoken to these people at length and seen them balk at taking a module because the projects in it required hundreds of lines of code to solve. A CS degree alone does not force you to do enough stuff to put you anywhere near being good.

>>59955042
any advice youd give? what did you do in order to get the job you have considering you have no degree?

>>59955049
if you had ambition you would realize that you could do excel in your college/uni career (grades, networking, research) and do so much better than dropping out and being a hermit working on open source projects and being a deplorable with no CS background

>>59955116
>deplorable
Oh dear...

>>59955087

doubting that having a high gpa in a stem field doesn't indicate that you work your ass off?

once again anecdotal evidence on how a degree is irrelevant. just because you had a bunch of retards in your special groupwork uni doesn't mean it's the standard that all people working towards a CS degree are under qualified than the self taught dropout

>>59955015
If people with degrees are that but how bad are you? Explain decorators in python if you know the language

>>59955155
>doubting that having a high gpa in a stem field doesn't indicate that you work your ass off?
I'm sure it's a hallmark of hard work. I'm not talking about hard work, I'm talking about competency.

>it's the standard that all people working towards a CS degree are under qualified than the self taught dropout
I don't think that. I just think that if you assume it means the person is a competent programmer you're in for a bad time.

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>>59953957
>He thinks sophomore through senior years are like intro classes

>>59955187
Employers would rather have a drone that operates on memory over a creative person as creative people are more of a risk

>>59953715
>>59953715
It'll be easy as fuck if you have any charisma. Get your foot in the door at a few places and build up some references and experience asap and youll be fine.
I was basically in your shoes 3 years ago and now I'm a pen tester on the CISO path.

>>59955297
Have you considered going back and finishing school?

>>59955202
How can you lean java for four years?
Logic...OOP...Advanced OOP...what else?

>>59955318
That's all you're taught programming wise in 4 years

>>59955243

this

Managers want people who will do what they say so they can continue to charge $120/hr for them. They sure as hell don't want really smart and creative people, because they'll get bored and quit or, worse, start running their own business while working on site.

Even in interviews, hide your power level. The last thing you want to do is intimidate your boss in an interview because you won't get hired at all.

t. self-employed

>>59953830
You taught yourself, that's cool and all, but are you using the best practices? I'm not a programmer, but I know that there are times you write a script out and you can leave exploits.

>>59954146
UW Milwaukee was a waste of time when I was going for CS 2 years ago

Do a boot camp if u want to fast track into a job with network

Otherwise stick with it and make friends you'll still make 73k going that route versus bad negotiation pay without the BS degree in CS

>>59953830
> cs degree is about learning how to program
You did not even understand CS 101, either that, or you were being scammed, maybe you are right to quit.

Don't worry, it will be fine.

I'm going to quit my dev job and become a basement dwelling neet again in order to work on my game full time. I need a career break and it's time for a change (am I completely screwed if I do this?)

>>59956567
I've only seen boot camps in larger cities otherwise I would

- You have no work experience
- You don't finish what you start
- You can't prove that you know how to program

Don't drop out of something before ypu have something else already in line.

>>59954742
If you store them in an array, it'll save some loops if you want to find the sum of primes less than another number.

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Droppout OP uni is a scam anyway,just have something to present in that portfolio or start working on something to impress suits,

>>59954951
there physics majors who dont know shit to CS theory and do fine in programming

>>59957175
- "You have no work experience"
in programming thats true and as ive mentioned multiple times in this thread i plan on writing code and contributing in open source projects to get that experience.
- "You don't finish what you start"
based off me feeling college is a waste for programmers you think im a lasy sack of shit? I taught myself python so i guess youre 1 example is already irrelevant.
- "You can't prove that you know how to program"
once again if you read the thread ive talked about contributing to open source and adding my own coding to my porfolio

not sure if youre a downie or shitty troll

>>59953830
God I fucking hate you shitters. CS is not about programming. You study CS because you want to learn how things operate at a lower level. Go fuck off to Software Engineering or IT if you want to learn how to program.

CS classes teach some programming because you learn CS topics through programming.

It's not anyone else's fault but your own for not understanding the difference and getting upset that CS isn't teaching you enough """"programming"""".

>>59957593
aww does me feeling that 4 years is a waste when i can teach myself and be employed in 1 year bother you that much? no idea why your emotional about this but whatever

>>59954304
Not op but I know these things and have a gf, they aren't mutually exclusive, don't insult others because you have confirmation bias.

>>59957691
Nah, I'm upset that you're confusing the two, you fucking inbred hick. It goes to show you don't know what you're talking about.

And I'm getting my PhD in a few months because I want to teach, so no, those four years wasn't a waste.

>>59953769
Please if you didn.t make it that does not mean he will become the same fucking full blown need as you , please go fucking kill yourself with you 12 h work per day.. Fucking pice of shit bastard.

>>59957766
im not confusing anything. I stated i feel i could teach myself to be proficient in programming far faster then a 4 year degree would take. Never did i say "wahhhh why am i not learning how to code more in class wahhh"

I doubt you'll be getting a PhD with zero reading skills

My brother in law dropped out of community college after a year, and he's working at Google now.
It's definitely possible.

>>59957829
Lmao are you retarded?
>in college it's 4 years to learn how to program with java??? I taught myself python within a month

You're complaining that you aren't learning enough programming languages while taking a CS degree.

>college is so dum i majored in english and i'm not learning enough maths :(((((((((((((((((((((((

>>59957840
if youre actually serious could you tell me the steps he took if you know at all? Not really in regards of how to get hired at google but how did he get the exposure he needed (like working on open source)?

>>59957893
I'm telling the truth, but I haven't talked to him in that much detail about what steps he took to land the job.
I do know that if you can manage to land a job at one of the big 4 though, you're basically set for life.

For example, he worked on the Google glass project, and when that got scrapped he moved to Apple for a little under a year. Then he decided to move back to google and they took him back no questions asked.
Sorry I couldn't be of more help anon. I wish you luck though.

>>59957766
*weren't

>>59957884
LMAOOOOO NOW I KNOW YOURE A 12 YEAR OLD PRETENDING TO BE SOMEBODY THEY ARE NOT...

>in college it's 4 years to learn how to program with java??? I taught myself python within a month

Once again (because as i stated earlier your reading skills are basically zero) I WAS MAKING THE POINT: WHY SPEND 4 YEARS TO GET A JOB I COULD GET IT IN A YEAR


im done talking to you if you cant read basic sentences that have a straight-foreword point kid.

>>59957972
Enjoy working at McDonalds with that shit tier intelligence, anon. He was arguing that you're ragging on college because of your fundamental misunderstanding between CS and SE.

>>59958010
mfw ive had a job better than mcdonalds doing data entry since i was 14.....

>>59953715

1) It depends on the country. Some countries do employ programmers without any degree a lot, others make it harder for people without a degree.

2) WebDev is the way to go. If you have no degree, you're probably better of with python+javascript+html+css than C#, since C# is a "big company language" and they (probably) won't hire you.

3) Get a portfolio. Make your own website. Make sites for your friends. Just get some shit done to prove you are the man a company should hire.

4) Get the low hanging fruits. Java, JavaScript, Python. There are a lot of Jobs out there.

>>59953891
>sum the first 2 000 000 primes problem since i was 15
I thought it was the sum of primes below 2000000

>>59958110
i live in America if that helps and since ive learned python you think i should learn java next?

>>59958110
I hope any of this is remotely true.

If I filled a site full of all the snippets I've randomly coded over the years would I get some pleb-tier job? Does this happen in the real world?

>>59958149

It depends on what you want to do.

Freelancer is always an option, because you "hire yourself". So personally I would start developing websites with python (backend) and some frontend shit (obviously JavaScript and CSS and HTML). And get good makes some bucks and then get hired because you have the skills you need.

Java would be more if you plan to get into a bigger company. I'm not saying it's not possible, but it will probably be harder.

The former is simply a matter of motivation, if you make a website every few month then it's only a matter of time until you will get hired. PLUS you will already earn some money (not that much, of course) by freelancing. It's the simpler way.

But maybe just check what skills are "hot" where you live. Or go to some programmer dudes and ask him politely what skills you should learn to get hired. Many programmers will probably understand you.

>>59958162

Well, there are two skills you need to prove your empoyer:
1) You are smart enough (i.e. have a conversation, know a few languages and so on).

2) You get shit done.


Obviously a college dropout should focus on the second point. Because even if you are smart as shit, they will assume you can't finish things.

Some code snippets are fine, just try to make bigger projects and FINISH THEM.

It takes about a year to get enough practice with all web dev tools to be employable (as a rule of thumb), so be patient. Just keep on coding and don't give up. Make something like a chessgame in Python or a funny website or..

It doesn't really matter what you do, just keep on doing things and put them on GitHub.

Or maybe do an intership. It would be better to get it NOW (while you aren't a dropout yet) though..

>>59958110
>3) Get a portfolio. Make your own website. Make sites for your friends. Just get some shit done to prove you are the man a company should hire.

Examples of things I should implement in the website to show I'm employee material?

>4) Get the low hanging fruits. Java, JavaScript, Python. There are a lot of Jobs out there.

Same question. I don't know what kind of projects to make to demonstrate what I know.

>>59953830
Lots of places require a degree. It is the first step in a long list of filters.

>>59958690
The fact that you're so willfully directionless is testament to the value of a degree programme: it forces you to do things.

Yeah, you could theoretically self-teach your way to a job, but realisitically you're going to arse around for a year before landing the morning shift au McDo.

>>59954353
>Plenty of people can get to the end of fourth year scarcely able to do Fizzbuzz.

Do people actually believe this happens at college? Like really? FizzBuzz can easily be done by highschoolers.

>>59958935
Do you not understand where the concept of fizzbuzz comes from in the first place?

>>59955318
Anyone that thinks this has no degree. Computer Science is not all programing. Plus you can learn multiple languages as electives.

>>59958955
A """blogger""" who took a boot camp and was probably confused by low level math. That's why you get a degree. The math matters.

>>59958329
thx for the helpout, you are like this dude
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxGRhd_iWuE

I am not at the level of coding a chess AI though, I have made a lot of puzzle games.

Are there any other sites like github where I can upload things to confirm I made it?

>>59953769
>CS degree
>amazing pay

>>59954015
What if you don't like interacting with people?

>>59955184
>Explain decorators in python
you serious nigga? That's pattern designs 101

>>59959339
if youre a programmer you better get used to alot of interaction

>>59958690
Find things that interest you and make prototypes, or even prototype websites. Drop your source code to github or some similar place and use it as reference. These go a long way.
And if you don't want to make full blown sites just snippets and parts that you think could be improved, just do them. Just make sure you have it somewhere accessible and can show it to ppl as a reference. It also helps to get involved in the scene (meetups, hackathons, anything) and do some networking if you can. In IT, most places are liable to look past your lack of degree since programmers are in high demand and if you're capable and not a complete waste of skin, you're bound to be able to support yourself and it doesn't take much to be able to advance once you're in.

>>59959339
learn C#, azure, aws wizardry and server-side code. You'll have to interact with one, maybe two ppl in the entire office (or more if you're a people person), and still get paid wads of cash, because the shit you do. There are a lot of jobs in IT that let you get away with being antisocial. The pinnacles are probably server-side programming and linux sysadmin. (there might be more obscure shit out there, but I've yet to meet them).
Or just join the IT department of any large multinational corporation. That's where the shut-ins go.

>>59959339
then you picked the wrong career choice

>>59953830
Yea stick to college,
I learned pyrhon in 3 days n write 3 prograns in a week, within 3months I had actually contributed ti the languague and shortly after landed a job
How coding min 15 hiurs a day if u cant do tht thn u wont land a job without college

>>59953830
I joined the army for 4 years. No deployment or anything. I wish I went to college instead. Stay in school real life is bleak without a degree

>>59953715
Drop out. One less retard driving software developer wages down

>>59960034
if i dropped out i would be working for less then average which would drive the price down

although if your autism is looking at this in a different way you can elaborate

>>59960034
>i can be very easily replaced by a literal retard with a useless degree

Nice slide that op. Kys. We don't want your help.

>>59957972
>>59960207
Just drop out op. I'm relishing at the idea that you will fail at anything you do with the attitude you've shown with your replies on this thread. Your plan so far has been "teach myself x language" and "contribute to open source", something you should have been doing in tandem in your college career. Your lackluster plan and lack foresight gives a pretty solid indicator of where your life is going, and blinding yourself with the pipe dream of being a self taught engineer while you show zero ambition and no cognitive skills will pretty much lead you nowhere.

Even if you did stay in college I'm pretty sure you wouldn't be able to finish your classes and your life will still be going down the same path, so do whatever you want.

Good luck!

>>59960466
"something you should have been doing in tandem in your college career."

cant contribute to open source when ive been taught 0 languages in class and am too busy taking fucking public speaking.

whats your next shit argument?

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>>59960466

>>59960577
lmaoo hes taking his shit life out on me but whatever

>>59960568
those just sound like excuses anon. I thought you taught yourself python? Haven't they been teaching you Java?

Prerequisite classes are eating up all your freetime? Yeah, no. You're just a lazy idiot, just like I suspected.

>am too busy taking fucking public speaking

seriously cringed at that. You need a reality check

>>59954110
I wrote that program in HS too. Its just for loops and modulo which is trivial

>>59953759
if anything that should degrade their position, shouldn't it? anyone can say "you need X Y and Z documents before you can talk to us"

>>59960635
cant even take the "programming" classes that my school has until i complete certain math classes. Which, of course, makes so much since considering the insane amount of mathematical algorithms i had to know to teach myself python.

>>59960577
>>59960603

did you just reply to yourself?

>>59954831
do you know what computer science is? it's fucking math
it's the math and logic involved with how math and logic problems are solved, it's about computation, not specifically computers

>>59958119
No, it's the first prime divisible by two million.

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Dropped out of highschool in 2001... Got GED and then dropped out of college in 3rd semester.

Learned html in 2010 became CTO medical company 2013

>>59960669

>cant even take the "programming" classes ..
so you haven't even earned your AA and you haven't started your electives for your BS. STEM is not the field for you if you wanna call it quits already. Just drop out and join a trade school, we always need more plumbers and welders.

>mathematical algorithms

like what? fuckin quicksort? what the fuck are you even saying?

you don't know what you're doing with your life. you want an easy way out and you're acting lazy as fuck. I feel bad for your parents.
You sound like the type of dude that will have to retake calc2 3 times until you are put on academic probation. Save yourself some time and dropout now. Go eat shit on /g/ and get the fuck out of the thread. You've already decided what you wanna do, you just want people telling you what you want to hear.

>>59960727
Youre right i have decided. i made this thread to get a gauge of how difficult it will be to get a programming job without a degree.

Just Because i dont want to be babysat by professors that tell me "learn the difference of dir() vs help for the quiz next week" that makes me lazy? in my eyes its the opposite. But if you had to be babysat to learn how to program thats cool dude

>>59960781
>babysat by professors
>implying that senior-level classes will ask you trivial questions like that
>implying you earn a CS degree just to learn to program

you will not find a job. you don't finish what you start. you will get swallowed by the world when you try to apply for a job and all you have in your portfolio are "automate the boring stuff with python" exercises and no open source contributions because you do not have the discipline to sit down and go through a repository that someone else created and understand the style, concepts, and techniques they used. Pair this with your resume that will only list an irrelevant data entry job and a high school diploma?

You aint shit

>>59960871
"all you have in your portfolio are "automate the boring stuff with python" exercises and no open source contributions"

I guess once again ill explain to you; I plan on learning multiple languages and contributing to a lot of open source shit, along with putting my own projects on github. what part of that is flawed?

If you aren't capable of finishing a CS degree then you probably aren't capable of working as a software developer. You could still do QA work though.

>>59960958
im capable. Its not that im failing classes or anything like that. I feel im wasting my time as my expectation for myself i to have an entry level job within a year and a half of dropping out. 1 and a half years with no debt > 4 years with $10,000's of debt

>>59961016
you're not

I'm almost dropping out of a second degree. Which I kind of hate because I feel wasting years on this shit kind of invalidated my first degree.

So I think I'll just lie on my resume and pretend I never did a second study to begin with.

>>59955806
They generally don't teach best practices, you'll learn those from your employer.

>>59961128
And why am I not? I'm not failing classes and I'm taking the classes I have to (gen eds). What part of that points to me not being able to finish my degree? Idiot

>>59957395
you know what impresses suits? Having the mettle to stick with something for 3-4 years and get a qualification at the end.

>>59961243

because you think its easy and you're small brained

>>59961322
I've never even implied it's easy. Honestly it's probably more difficult because I don't have babysitters telling me what to learn and when to learn it.

>>59961370

calling professors babysitters shows how tiny your brain is and how in over your head you are

be a failure

>>59961370
You either go to a complete shit college or you're a dumbass that isn't taking advantage of your professors massive amount of knowledge.

>>59961376
Over my head but I've taught myself a language already? Damn I'm so retarded thinking I could teach myself programming. You know after the amazing points you've made I'm gonna say fuck it and delete the language I've learned and just go back to public speaking and bio-Chem, because after all why the fuck learn programming if you want to be a programmer.

Like others have said the purpose of your degree is not to teach you to program, you really are expected to teach yourself that. You are mistaken to think that the purpose of the degree is to teach you to do X. Rather it is mean to give you the tools you need to CONTINUOUSLY learn. After you get past entry level, your value to employers is not being about to do X but rather determine which is the best way to do X and identify all the ways NOT to do X. I get where you're coming from and you are correct in the short term, but you will not regret finishing your degree in the long term.

>>59961451

you thinking that knowing how to program is all it takes to have a career in the industry tells enough about how stupid you are

i cant believe that you're saying since you taught yourself one of the most basic high level languages you think youre ready to take on the endeavor that is finding work without any education

i teach programming languages and concepts to elementary school kids, i think they're ready to drop out and find jobs just like you if what your saying thats all it takes

you're a fucking moron

>>59961458
Thanks for having a level response. so you have he opinion that it shouldn't be incredibly difficult to find an entry level job if I do what I've mentioned throughout the thread? (Learn multiple languages, contribute to open source, build my own portfolio)?

>>59961609

if knowing multiple languages, contributing to open source and having a portfolio was all it took to get into a competitive entry level job, there would be a lot less CS students

there are too many people like you that are clouded by the idea that you can shortcut yourself into the industry by doing X in your own time. it's not that simple. you're gonna be extremely let down when you find out its not the case

>>59961505
Once again I guess I have to explain to you; I'm not under the opinion that because I know python that I'm even remotely qualified for an entry level job. I also understand a degree makes getting a job incredibly more simple. But if I teach myself multiple languages, do open source stuff, and build my own portfolio you still think I'm an idiot that won't be able to find an entry level programming job because I lack a degree? Honest question

>>59961642
So I'm fucked without a degree regardless of how proficient I am as a programmer

>>59957972
>I WAS MAKING THE POINT: WHY SPEND 4 YEARS TO GET A JOB I COULD GET IT IN A YEAR

because attaining a degree statistically increases your lifetime maximum income.

You might have got a job in a year, but you won't earn as much over your entire lifetime. Great forward thinking there m80.

Coworker I knew was the senior QA guy at my last job. 0 formal education, all self-taught.
He's now the lead developer for the entire company. Largely because he's been working with the product for so long, and the ENTIRE dev team quit because management was so fucking bad
But hey, he still did it.
The new lead QA was actually my replacement because I left, and he's making twice what I was now.

One of the senior devs before everybody walked out was a 20y/o without any formal education too.

>>59961676
no, you're just gonna have a harder time convincing people you're worth their time.

I'm involved in employment decisions at a startup. Degrees aren't required but we probably won't be very interested if you can't demonstrate intellectual capability otherwise. We have 3 PhDs and 2 graduates in a company of 5.

>>59961762
then take into account the difference in wage vs debt from a 4 year degree, plus the profits ill be making (if i do get hired) while a college student is making no money and piling more debt.

i feel the actual wage gap after that comes closer to zero

>>59961646
your plan is not as foolproof as you think. you keep saying these things but I think you're underestimating just how little those contribute to the decision of hiring you.

what do you even mean by build your portfolio? you have no idea yourself.

>>59953715
Big *programming* companies usually don't care if you have a CS degree, but they also only hire the absolute best.
Big companies that do other things (engineering, science, banking) but still have large IT departments won't even give your resume a second glance without a degree.
I'd recommend the degree or else you're closing a lot of doors, OP.

>>59961813
>spend $100,000 to learn what a portfolio is and memorize algorithms that you will one day google.

>>59961806

making no money and piling debt? tons of college students have part time jobs and especially in CS, get paid summer internships. About half of the sophomores that I know landed summer internships making 30/hr at various fortune 500 companies

talking about debt and the deficit from working at year one as opposed to year 4 is a shitty excuse and a terrible motivator

especially when you probably wont become a guru in a year. you'd be surprised how fast time flies, and with your replies here i wouldnt bet that you have it in you to land yourself a well paying job in year 1. maybe youll find something that pays 12-13 dollars doing freelance work, but theres no room for growth there, maybe youll get a nice entry level for 15 and in a couple of years youll stagnate because you have no real foundation for the concepts of what you are working with and how to apply them to different technologies and platforms

sorry

>>59961646
Once you do those things you may be employable, but you have not done those things.
Its like saying 'I've completed my couch to 5k, so I'm going to quit my job and become a professional runner, I plan on training very very hard first though, so don't worry'.

>>59961866

where did you pull that figure from and what is it relevant to? you didn't answer my question. you have no idea what to include in your portfolio.

you keep saying it like it means something or you know what it means but youre just using spewing bs lol

no one in college expects you to memorize any algorithms, i don't know why you're assuming that, the most important thing is understanding algorithm efficiency and how it interacts with memory, compilers, etc

once again proving that you don't know shit

>>59961813
if you dont mind me asking do you have experience in the hiring process of programmers? Is it really more about the degree rather than what the applicant can actually do?

>>59961931


refer to

>>59961852

this is spot on

even if you are a decent programmer, you would have to be amazing to be considered at a good company without a degree

go check out your local university listings at the requirements for entry level/ graduate level jobs

even if you are a good programmer w/o a degree you will rarely get to the point of being invited for an interview, and if you do, the questions are not just programmer based.

they don't just sit you down and give you a program to code, they ask you complexities, design choices, so 'knowing a bunch of languages' doesn't really cut it

>>59953715
D O N ' T
O
N
'
T

DO NOT.

D O N O T
O

N
O
T

you will become like me. you do not want to become like me.

>>59961609
In short yes, if you do those things I and are willing to relocate to where the jobs are then you will have no problem getting an entry level job. Particularly if you shoot for entry level web dev type stuff. Ppl here like to shit on it but it is a good foot in the door and will help you build experience and at least pay the bills while you develop yourself/options

>>59962009
to be fair i have a unhealthy obsession with things that im interested in. programming has been all ive thought about, watched videos about, and wanted to talk about since i started learning my first language. did you share that same obsession?

>>59962039
thanks, any language you'd reccomend that would help me get a foot in the door the quickest? like the most sought after languages for employers?

>>59962057
you will burn out and fail

>>59962057
I used to, yes. I also thought I was the shit.

just get the fucking paper.

>>59962057
ur acting like ur hot shit but ur just stubborn and before u know it you will be knee deep in shit from ur poor choices

>>59962067
Honestly at this point specific languages don't matter. For your long term development you should be learning solid OOP concepts and general good development practices and specifics of the industry you want to work in.

If your goal is to get a job ASAP focus on Python. Learn Django, databases, understand ORM, understand how requests work, understand async, be functional with Git. JS (with some frameworks not just basic JS)/HTML/CSS will be a big requirement as Django is for web shit. That is the bare minumum to get you an interview and I'm probably leaving out a few things. Solid understanding of basic SOA and creating Restful APIs will really help up your chances.

"Once again I guess I have to explain to you; I'm not under the opinion that because I know python that I'm even remotely qualified for an entry level job. I also understand a degree makes getting a job incredibly more simple. But if I teach myself multiple languages, do open source stuff, and build my own portfolio you still think I'm an idiot that won't be able to find an entry level programming job because I lack a degree? Honest question"

damn yea i really sound like im hot shit.....

>>59953715
>programming job
>without degree
easy.
Try now getting a software engineering job without a degree. Impossible if you don't know the right people.

>>59962186 again here,
I would recommend you to start looking for jobs right away and keep up with it. It will give you a very good idea of what the industry is looking for. Go to meet ups and network like crazy. You have no experience so you don't know what the industry is really like (I'm no expert either), but 'tech' is full of a lot of bullshit faux excitement sjw shit. You are having a hard time dealing with the responses you are getting here and I honestly believe everyone here so far has generally had your best interest in mind. They really giving you honest answers, even if it isn't what you want to hear. Thats a lot better than teh passive aggressive SJW faggots you're gonna be dealing with in industry. So back to my point, network and meet people and find out what the industry is REALLY like before you drop out. It may not be as glamorous as you might envision.

>>59962193
Right now the market for programmers is flooded. IT companies claim otherwise in the hopes that they can import more pajeets and drive wages down even further. But believe me, it is fucking flooded. We're talking 1,000+ applications per job opening.

Getting a job WITH a degree is difficult unless it's a degree from a top rated school. (Think MIT or CalTech.) Not having a degree just hurts you.

That doesn't mean you can't get a job and have a successful career without one. Much more of life is due to luck and who you know then people...especially college professors and HS teachers...like to admit. But if you have college paid for and it's not a disrespected degree mill I don't see how finishing can hurt you. You should finish AND do all the other stuff you're talking about.

t. Self Taught
Fluent in a half dozen languages and all the SQL engines
Has written software that literally runs several businesses
Struggling to find enough contract work or FT employment

P.S. I've never seen the market this bad. I had an easier time getting work during the .com burst and the housing crash.

>>59962266 cont,
Also, aside from purely severely abused pajeet code monkey shit there is a lot of bullshit non-programming business shit (akin to your non-programming general studies classes) that you're gonna have to deal with. That shit don't stop since you're out of school so be ready for that. You will be working with other people, building to their designs and specifications which you will not always agree with. Business requirements will nearly always trump everything no matter what anyone says.

>>59953715
You'll have to be good to get a job without a degree, unlike with a degree.

>>59962307
>t. Self Taught
get a degree and a master

>>59962338
At this point in my life the time and money are both prohibitive. Plus, I have numerous friends in the field...most with their 4 year degrees...and the feedback is there's no point in adding a degree (or in my case getting the first) unless it's a really well regarded school. The short list that has been tossed out (in no particular order):
UC Berkley
Standford
CalPoly Pomona
CalTech
MIT

But I'm sure they would tell anyone who is young and already in school to stick it out unless it's a shit degree mill. I would say the same.

I've been really discouraged the past couple of years and quite frankly have been considering another field entirely. I may not have a degree, but I was programming in JH/HS because I loved it. I've always loved computing and software engineering and my bookshelf is filled with books like Knuth's Art of Computer Programming series. And I'm not kidding when I say several businesses run on software I wrote for them entirely on my own. I was so confident in the 2000's, before the housing crash, that I turned down FT work to make more doing contract. Not having a degree didn't hurt back then.

Now? There's a bum rush on IT degrees and certificates. The normies are running to it hoping for a guaranteed middle class life like they did to real estate before the housing crash. Nursing isn't even this bad because you have to have the degree and pass state tests to be a nurse, and the math is harder then it is for a normie in a lower tier CS course. (Hence the list of schools above. An EE degree at MIT is going to have harder math than your typical nursing program.)

tl;dr - OP, stay in school.

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>>59953830
>>59954168

>networking
>OS
>databases
>compilers

In addition:
- Embedded systems
- Distributed systems
- Math
- Graphics
- Cryptography
- ML/AI

Not to mention that:
1. Employers are actively targeting universities, so it's much easier to find a job while in school.
2. Your classmates are your future network/colleagues/employees/employers.

In theory you could just drop out, self-study the subjects you need, network through meetups, build a portfolio, contribute to open source and try to get a job that way. But do you really think you could do all that in less than 4 years on your own?

>>59953715
Build a lot of projects and find work because good luck... If the target company is hypercucked by college, good luck

if the target company is less cucked, then you won't be making average price

if the target company isn't cucked, you may have a fair shake, but it's probably been fucked by numerous retarded "programmers"

---

The problem is companies use college as a litmus test - and retards still make it through, and waste a few months of company resources. if you don't have a degree you *really* need to prove yourself


Good luck anon.

>>59962266
no lie if theyre far fucking left im going to end up yelling "white privilege isnt real" or something like that and get fired

>>59959273
it's a relatively nice paying job. I live in ohio and companies can pay 40-60k out of school on average (depending where you find work and such you can get more)

>>59962581
They are all far left, its a modern industry that massively benefits from globalism.
Are you sure you want a job anon? If you like programming just do it as a hobby whilst collecting neetbux

>>59962613
CORRECT. your only options are SJW fags or shrewd business fags who don't give a fuck about you or your skills/passions/tech beyond its ability to help them make a buck.

>>59962613
just because of the industries retarded political views that doesnt at all change the fact that this is the only job i want to do

>>59962736
The work you want to do and the jobs you are thinking of applying for are very different things anon.
The work you want to do is programming using a bunch of languages, creative problem solving etc. etc.
The job is nepotism, networking and people management, not only ensuring your team does their jobs properly but also ensuring they do the proper jobs so you get a pat on the ass and a nudge up from the right boss.

In BR if you have a degree you don't even go to common jail, you are sent to a special one.

>>59954282
lol

>>59953830
Easier to land a job when you speak to employers at a career fair in college, plus unless you do contract with small startups or some shit you're almost certainly going to need a Bachelor's just to get a foot in the door. Blame bureaucracies and a saturated job market for that.

>>59953715
>How much more shitty will it be to find a programming job without a degree
It won't be any more shitty if you actually have a portfolio of your work.

>>59959273
CS is in the top ten for starting salaries by most measures.

>>59962601
>I live in ohio and companies can pay 40-60k out of school on average (depending where you find work and such you can get more)
I live in Ohio too and got 50k starting in one of the lowest cost of living cities in the state and I'm self taught.

>>59953891
>also you may learned python and java in your free time but you are not gonna learn uni math in your free time.or algorithms
How so? What secret knowledge on math and algorithms does a university have that you can't get anywhere else? Oh wait, it doesn't, it's all available online for free.

>>59954146
You shouldve done it like the CC route maing
> went to local CC and got my AA on a full academic scholarship ( big cc with a lot of donations/funding) w moneys left over for laptops and headphones etc
> got my basic AA, did all those boring classes in a lax environment.
> community college is partned with all the big state schools to transfer towards a bachelors
> almost done with my degree with less around 5k in debt
> Feelsgood.jpg

>>59953715
IKTF OP, I got expelled for reporting a security issue which violated their network AUP.(and they're trying to prosecute me too. Fun)

>when you disable IMAP on the exchange server for "security" but all of your webapps are a security nightmare
Pathetic

>>59953759
This isn't really true
Experience is much more valuable in this world

>>59953715
>not being mentally disabled and getting money from the government to sit on your ass all day

>>59959011
Yeah computer science is an all around computer knowledge degree mainly pertaining to algorithms.

>>59961806
>debt from college
>not getting a full scholarship
I dont think you're as smart as you think you are...

i was super depressed and dropped out but managed to get a decent job because nobody bothers to get good at c/asm anymore so i'm sure you can manage too op

re anecdotal evidence about cs grads being bad programmers, it's pretty true in a lot of cases. there were a lot of smart kids at my school who were more math or theory oriented so they just stuck with more expressive languages like python or scheme but would choke if you told them to write fizzbuzz in c. i'm sure they're all doing great in grad school now but i still singlehandedly wrote most of the c/asm in most of the groups i was assigned to. i only had one friend because depressed/antisocial and he sucks so much at programming he's going back to school to get into the data science meme (prob also a good path, desu)

i interview a lot of people for my current company and fizzbuzz really isn't just a meme. i use a modified fizzbuzz as one of the questions and it weeds out an absurd number of candidates

>>59963414
im not smart. you dont need to be hawking to know how to code

>>59957585
Teaching yourself python is hardly impressive, what have you done with it? What are your intentions? Where is your passion? I can tell you right now without a degree you will need passion out the ass. Been coding since 13, or a portfolio of actual value. You need to prove one way or another that you want this.

Most people just do the degree to prove that. You will need to find other ways. Saying youre good enough because you learned python and contributed to a few open source projects is fuckall to be honest.

Just understand your situation and level your expectations accordingly. Your success will depend on a combination of luck/connections and raw demonstratable passion. You will likely start lower, have to work harder, and will be more limited in the long run.

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>>59962307
>>59962443
>use computers all my life but never bother to learn how to code
>be NEET
>start a few months ago
>start to enjoy it, make lots of games and things
>impress my dad who thinks I'm useless and hates me
>think maybe this is the path out of NEETdom
>read these posts
>ragret not starting years ago
>tfw
th..this isn't true, is it? I wouldn't mind having the shittiest job, I just want to be good at something and do something with it

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dropout working for large (over 300) company reporting in

did some programming shit for years before applying for a position I was underqualified for. youngest hired at the time

>>59963641
what steps did you take? did you have a really nice github portfolio built up or?

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>>59963677
I had a nice github
basically went to the interview with pictures of shit that I made talking about how it worked

they offered me an intern position and I worked about a year in a paid internship, dropped out of school, and have been promoted and raise-bumped a couple times since over 2 years

You really have to show a passion for it. I presented a library to interface with a properietary chat protocol and explained how as a group with some other people exchanging info about the protocol, I was able to write the thing

>>59963367
How do you get experience?
With an entry level position
Who applies for entry level poisitons?
Graduates, in their thousands.

>>59963727
a couple of the graduates interning at the company I interned at didn't make it because they sucked

>>59963727
I'm self taught and got a job

If you can't maybe you're just bad

>>59963947
>maybe you're just bad
I wish it was true anon I see bad programmers at my place of employment and it baffles me at times, especially when they're such higher title than I am.

>>59963749
Over half the CS grads I met can't program and they went to good universities.

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>>59963991
I believe you, anon

>>59954282
this is wrong.

also what are portfolios.

>>59963532
All I can say is keep trying. If you don't have the means to go to college, then you have to work with what you do have.

If you don't mind having the "shittiest job" then hit up contracting sites and start with smaller projects. Don't get in over your head with a project you can't complete. (In other words, don't be a pajeet.) But try and build a portfolio that way. Just be wary of any shit heads who don't pay.

And contribute to FOSS.

It's a bitch right now. I wish Trump would terminate the h1b program completely. If we sent every pajeet home then MAYBE the market would balance.

>>59958690
See
>>59958886
If you're completely and utterly clueless on how to proceed without a degree then you should probably get one

>>59959339
Then you're fucked in almost any job

>>59964917
Fuck off, Maki's a slut.

>>59961762
and niggers statistically commit 25x more violent crimes against Whites than the other way around but bring that up anywhere and you've got moral outrage on your hands

what's the deal?