MP3 Patents Expiration

It's shit tho

Good I guess. Shame the patent system is so fucked that by the time they expire they're damn near worthless

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>>59927514
Just in time for the standard to be completely worthless.

>>59927575

>no 44.1khz support

into the trash

>>59927610
as if it matters, resampling to 48KHz is inconsequential compared to the lossy encoding you're doing anyway

>>59927575
>opus
Yeah, good luck with that market penetration, there.

>>59927543
>by the time they expire they're damn near worthless
is that not the point?

When AAC patents expire?

>>59927514
wasn't there more stupid shit like mp3HD made to keep MP3 encumbered?

>>59927514
>obsolete legacy shit
yeah whatever

>>59927610
You shouldn't be using a lossy codec at all if you're going to bitch about the loss in quality due to a 44.1khz to 48khz conversion.

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>>59927514
>obsolete shittier-than-shitty format becomes free
>in a world where vorbis and opus exist

>>59927663
But the MP3HD patents are irrelevant to the original MP3 patents. Those are more like an extension of the original format.

>>59927652
I just find the idea that someone can claim ownership of mathematical concepts to be fucked itself.

good. i had to "buy" a license to install mp3 codec on my OLPC when I had it.

>>59927739
I find the concept of entire life forms (or part of them) being patentable to be even more fucked up.

>>59927769
At least patents do expire. It would be horrible of we had the terms being equivalent to copyright terms which last for 80-120 years or however long the lawmakers and Disney feel like extending it to.

>>59927712
>vorbis and opus
Who cares?

This is your last chance to infringe copyright, guys

>>59927928
everyone with half a brain cell that isn't a mainstreamlet that just follows the herd and worships shitty tech

>>59927968
I agree about the technical inferiority of MP3 as a format, but there's still tons of MP3 audio out there in the wild that people want to listen to.

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>iTunes will never be able to use flac, vorbis, or opus.
>None of the other media players have the features I use in iTunes.

>>59927514

ogg is better anyway.

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Why does gnome best DE?

>>59927654
This. Can't use any of my AAC files on VDJ

>>59928078
wot features

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>>59928078
>tfw Apple Music on Itunes 64bit Windows 10
kill me already

>>59928078
>iTunes
Found your problem.

>>59928078
Winamp does everything iTunes does and more. You get a few hundred visualisers included compared to the one on iTunes, customisable sort functions, FLAC support, equaliser presets saved to individual tracks, fade out instead of pause/stop, no locked DRM shit, etc. etc.

>>59928150
Not related. inb4ban

>>59928193
Copying the file by dragging it off the playlist, auto-organizing my files when imported into iTunes, having the song list not be a playlist, and having a file count for total songs.

>>59927968
Now tell me one audio player device that supports those formats out-of-the-box.

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>>59928078
iTunes is shit though, at least on Windows. Slow as fuck to start, wont auto detect deleted files from the library and remove them, confusing syncing process, random missing album artwork

Imagine my shock when I got my first iPhone this and realize i must use this pos

I just organize everything in musicbee now, export my auto playlists to .pls and drag them into itunes, but artwork still often won't be picked up by iTunes... It needs to be redesigned from the ground up

>>59928479
>It needs to be redesigned from the ground up
This but only for windows. ffs its impossible to use

>>59928479
just use copytrans manager if you're on windows

>>59927514
Fakenews, there is two to go:
Patent 5,924,060: August 29, 2017
Patent 5,703,999: December 30, 2017

>>59927514
For my lossy needs I use ogg/vorbis q6.0 anyway. MP3 has long been dead to me

>>59928288
winamp is dead or i would still use it

But the mp3 still a shit.

>2017
>still using mp3
>not being on mp4 already
lmao lol

>>59928537
I did a quick search and I didn't see the mention of MPEG Layer III in any way, shape, or form in those patents.
https://www.google.com/patents/US5703999
https://www.google.com/patents/US5924060

Unlike Patent US6009399, the one that expired today.
https://www.google.com/patents/US6009399

So show me how those patents are related to MP3, if you say they are.

The only reason I have mp3 is because my chinese cartoon CDs from the cat tracker come in FLAC or MP3.

>>59928691
Download FLAC and convert to Vorbis if you don't need to keep it lossless

>>59928650

>mp3 is an audio format
>mp4 is a stream container
>not the same things
>stupid fucking people will be the death of us all

>>59928707
I used to do it, but then I started seeding. What a conundrum.

>>59928673
>https://www.google.com/patents/US5924060
the first one mentions ISO/IEC 11172-3 in the very description
it doesn't matter, though, it's about joint stereo, which is a shit feature

the second literally just describes rate controlled transform coding of audio, which should never have been granted for being way too broad and definitely applies to MP3 and almost everything else

why do you think patents have to call out specific standards to apply to them? that's not how it works. if the technology described in the patent is used then that technology is encumbered by that patent.

>>59928764
>ISO/IEC 11172-3
Well, I will give you that.

>the second literally just describes rate controlled transform coding of audio
But that would mean all audio formats are ruled by this patent, even the open standards. That's the reason I am sure there is a workaround or alternative way to do this, that would be appliable to the open formats, or even MP3.

>>59928464
nearly any android phone afaik

>>59927678
>the loss in quality due to a 44.1khz to 48khz conversion
uwot

>software patents
fucking americans

Oh wow, some interesting new on /g/ for a change. Thanks OP.

>>59928958
There will be a nigh-imperceptible loss in quality due to a 44.1-48khz resample.

>>59928995
>repeating yourself
back that up with literally any math

any good resampler is lossless for either the original frequency range if upsampling or the new frequency range if downsampling

>>59928942
Android phones have shitty DACs, shitty speakers and shitty audio-processing hardware in general.

>>59929022
shitty one > none

>>59929022
and yet you insist in using a shittier format such as mp3

>>59929006
Firstly 44.1-48khz always causes rounding errors, secondly these errors can be for the most part eliminated depending on the software you use, but again it is never perfect.

I'm just saying it's a total non-issue if you're using a lossy codec in the first place. If you are concerned about quality to that extent it's better to use FLAC or something.

>>59929060
MP3 V0 > All

>>59929088
you can't just keep saying things as if that alone is evidence, show me ANY proof that there are frequency differences even non-detectable in a resample of that type.

>>59929140
Just fucking google it you autistic nigger I'm not going to give you a rigorous mathmatical proof.

>>59927642
Opus saves a lot of money, that's why Google is pushing it with VP9. It's not a couple of neckbeards thinking it's better, it's measurable better.

Other companies will follow.

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>>59929140
nigger

Can AIMP automatically organize files that I import like in iTunes?

>>59928576
>Winamp is dead
Mine works just fine 15 years later.

>>59928576
it works excellently to this day, and there is nothing that rivals is in terms of utility and customization.

>>59929022
I don't know when do you used the last time an Android phone, cause any 2016> phone have like perfect DAC.

>>59927610
44.1 is a mistake.

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>>59929104

>>59927575
HE-AACv2 is better on 26 kbps.

>>59929629
source?

>tfw when reencoding shitty mp3s as flac and dumbasses online gobble them up

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>>59927514
MP3 is already past its prime. Hundreds of millions of people listen to their music in Vorbis now.

https://support.spotify.com/us/using_spotify/search_play/what-bitrate-does-spotify-use-for-streaming/

>>59928346
> having the song list not be a playlist
You mean like tab in foobar is only list of songs unless you save them as playlist?
> Copying the file by dragging it off the playlist
foobar have that behavior
> auto-organizing my files when imported into iTunes
foo_facets and other similar things.

>>59927514
Can patents be renewed at the last moment?

>>59927968
Ironically, shilling for Vorbis and Opus is basically following the herd

>>59929710
>streaming
On top of that
>~96 kbps
>Normal quality on mobile.

Might as well keep using MP3.

>>59929789
What's wrong with streaming?

>>59929938
If you are streaming then you are not qualified to complain about quality.

>>59929952
I'm well satisfied with Ogg Vorbis 320 kbps.

>>59929710
>spotify
>hundreds of millions

fucking lol'd

I thought it wasn't until the end of the year till patents fully expired.

>>59930008
But it's true.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2016/06/20/spotify-crosses-100m-users/

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vinyl is superior.

>>59929678
https://my.mixtape.moe/nwuhvm.zip

source: my ear

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>>59930041
>moving parts
>can't fit in your pocket
>will sound terrible in a few years
>"portable" players are big and bulky
>useless now that music is commonly digitally mastered

The only reason you'd go vinyl in 2017 is for hipster fashion and status.

>>59930025
Sure, but aren't they going bankrupt?

>>59930091
>will sound terrible in a few years
muh rotational velocidensity

>>59929022
>"name any device"
>names a whole family of devices
>"not that one"
simply erin

Using Windows 10
Does iTunes still use software rendering on literally everything still?

>>59929613
nice meme

>>59928479
>>59930486
Apple software on Windows is always shit.

>>59927514
What did this mean before and what does it mean now?

>>59927610
A) it does have 44.1kHz support if you desperately need it
B) there are reasons it doesn't support it by default

>>59930025
How many of those are inactive accounts?

>mp3
No one cares

Opus or bust at this point

>>59931329
back then if you used mp3 to make money in any way (sell your music in mp3, stream a commercial radio station in mp3 etc) you had to pay royalties if your annual income from utilizing mp3 was above a limit.

Listening to mp3 was always free and if you were under the limit creating it was free too.

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>implying anyone here could spot the difference between a music playing in mp3 or any other format

>>59930096
They rarely profit from paying off labels, I've heard

>>59930091
At least they are not cassettes.

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>>59932439
>>59930096
>>59930025
Holy shit. So, unless 2016 or 2017 starts showing some profit, they will have to declare bankruptcy right?

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>>59927514
>data compression

FLAC master race coming through.

>>59928707
I don't have autism... if something comes in mp3 I will listen to it in mp3 not waste my time converting.

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>>59927514
flac > your lossy shit

>>59928576
this.
It needs some modern features.

>>59932937
Like what?

>>59927514
Too late, flac it's where it's at

It's so glad that patent-life prolonging attempts such as mp3Pro, mp3HD, mp3Surround, etc. failed. FhG made those inferior bullshit after they developed AAC. Just insane.

too bad mp3 is deprecated technology by now. only old people & hipsters still use it.

kids use streaming services and those who follow technical innovation use either lossless placebo or opus.

>>59927610
>believing 44.1khz matters for lossy encoding
you have to let go of that good ol' redbook standard, son. it's part of the old web

>>59933833
>part of the old web
muh Web 1.0

>>59930132
Analog media, especially vinyl, can quite easily be damaged by repeated playback unless you are meticulous in cleaning it and whatever you're playing it with. Sometimes it can still be damaged anyway.

>>59932937
>web 1.0
that's the ancient web. the old web is 2.0. where 3.0 now baby

>>59934094
Web 2.0 is a concept of the 2000s, compared to the way older than 90s Red Book standard.

>>59927968
You mean a hipster audiophile, then.

>>59927514
yay

>>59934139
the red book standard was the basis for the mp3 format, which was the praxis for music distribution during the mid 90's, but was abandoned by music enthusiasts at the beginning of the millennium for three simple reasons:
>lossless, such as flac, ape or wavpack, formats offers full quality
>diskspace got cheap, so space was no longer an issue
>lossless is future safe, unlike lossy formats

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MP3 is surely a legacy format that need to disappear along with other widely used oldies such as MP2 and AC3.

http://listening-test.coresv.net/results.htm

>>59934224
>lossless
Yeah, because I was missing those lost infrasound frequencies so much.

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>>59927514
Can you explain why's every hipster in this thread says mp3 is obsolete? what format is in trend these days?

>>59934309
see >>59934286

>>59934295
>listening to flac is pure placebo
lossless is not for casual listening, it's for keeping an original copy and making duplicates.

would you rip out the few parts of a book that you like best and throw away the rest?

>>59927575
Has been worthless since Vorbis was created.

What should I convert my flacs to instead of mp3?

>>59934309
see >>59933833

>>59927968
So no-one.

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>mfw I encoded my vinyl collection with some really shitty encoder at 128 (before Lame etc) and then sold all my records.

>>59934378
It depends on your player. Opus, if supported. You would need AAC if you have a Walkman or iPod.

>>59934378
got a sandisk? then use ogg -q4
got a smartphone? then opus
>there's a mobile version of foobar200 that supports opus

>>59934364
Lossless is more similar to that "special edition" of a movie with the commentary audio track included. Who cares?

>>59928078
ALAC

>>59932285
As the majority of /g/ uses a Linux+GNU OS, I bet most of the /g/ can. Just use ffprobe and run

ffprobe music.foo

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>>59932285
>using a format that has been superseded for over a decade

>>59934342
>http://listening-test.coresv.net/results.htm
>>59934286
what does it even mean? I don't get it.

>>59934998
5 is indistinguishable from original. 1 is shit. You can search jewgle for ABC/HR for the detail.

>>59934998
It means MP3 at V5 (136kbps) is worse than AAC at 104, unless you're using the terrible FAAC encoder.

MP3 is also never indistinguishable from lossless, while good luck ABXing AAC above 220kbps.

>>59934286
>>59935059
Not that anon, but to be fair that only shows that the MP3 format is identical to Ogg and slightly below to the supposedly next-gen formats ACC and Opus. Even so, the MP3 is still between fourth and fifth scales, so that's good news.
top kek at the FAAC format, though.

>>59934286
I wonder if that red inverted triangle was bullshitting. For the most part their results are average but the AAC result was apparently way off. At least the aqua asterisk guy was consistent

>>59935206
Red inverted triangle guy was a fag.

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>>59932762
What about muh soundtracks from 16 bit era?

>>59935188
The MP3 samples in required higher average bitrates.

How many other well used formats are left that are still patented protected?

>>59935273
The core of AC-3 (Dolby audio) was recently released to public domain but there are still extensions to it that are encumbered.

MPEG2 and MPEG4 series codecs:
Advanced Simple Profile(DivX, Xvid)
H264/AVC
AAC

Microsoft's VC-1 is encumbered as well, luckily it's not used much.

>>59935484
Oh and obviously HEVC is still encumbered but at least the licensing is fairly permissive.

>>59935188
They gave MP3 30% more bitrate. It's more informative to see what bitrate MP3 kinda competes at than how shitty it is at 96kbps.

>>59935484
Also, MPEG-2 video aka H.262 is still used for DVD and HDTV.

I'm using mp3 v0 LAME 3.99 is this good for phone listening?

>>59935767
Not bad but you can achive the same quality with Opus 128kbps.

>>59935710
For me it's still impressive how well positioned the MP3 format is considering how fast things change in the tech world. Same with the JPEG, PNG and GIF formats in the case of digital images.

>>59935767
MP3's main problem is that modern codecs achieve the same quality at like half the bitrate. MP3s are unnecessarily large these days although storage is so cheap it hardly matters anymore, except for portable devices where storage is more scarce.

>>59935792
iphone don't play that format

>>59933833
People still use .mp3 dumbass. When they aren't streaming and are downloading music it's always mp3 especially if they have an idevice.

>Old People and hipsters still use it

It's 2017 not 2067

OPUS
P
U
S

>>59935824
Install foobar2000 mobile or use AAC 160kbps if you stick with stock app.

>>59935830
>it's always mp3 especially if they have an idevice
AAC, ALAC, AIFF, WAV

>>59935807
MP3 achieved "good enough" status, the only way to unseat it is to make something better that is also just as easy for normalfags to use day to day.

>>59927514
Um, no. Patents don't expire anymore. They'll simply be renewed.

>>59935863
Um, you don't need to renew patents.

>>59935863
You are thinking of copyright.

>>59935848
Ogg seems to work ok on my piece of shit old phone. Opus was too heavy or something

>>59935830
normies use youtube, spoitfy, apple music

those don't use mp3

>>59935824
Because Apple is like Microsoft in the early 00s, making up their own bullshit formats no one ever uses. WMV was used only because of Windows Movie Maker.

>>59935863
Patents are only supposed to last 20 years, they never get extended to 100+ years like copyright has.

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>>59935859
MP3 is widespread, not just "good enough". And I don't think "good enough" got much to do with it.

>>59935894
You mean Vorbis? Opus generally uses Ogg as its container iirc

The only merit of this is when you use faggy GNU software that goes "LOL, you have to go install Lame MP3 yourself, we don't ship our software with it because it's non-free." So now they have no reason not to bundle it together and save me five minutes. Fags like Audacity

>>59935848
>AAC 160kbps
>not encoding to AAC itunes 256 vbr and be done

>>59935899
>no one uses AAC

>>59935807
>PNG
I hope FLIF can displace PNG. It sucks that PNG doesn't have animation as a standard, and that Chrome has just recently accepted APNG.

>>59935807
JPEG and PNG are good formats but I really cannot consider GIF good.

GIF is useful for simple animations with few frames and few colors but people these days use it like a video codec and it's just really terrible for that purpose.

>>59936181
>GIF is useful for simple animations with few frames and few colors
APNG is better though, the last version of GIF was standardized in 1988. I really hope FLIF can gain ground though.

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>mfw nobody remembers how bad Xing was

>>59936333
Surprisingly, they somehow developed the best MP3 encoder ever as Helix.

http://d.hatena.ne.jp/kamedo2/touch/20170323/1490276874

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>>59928711
>What is a joke

>>59935923
Yea, it's kinda confusing for me. So I meant Ogg Vorbis as opposed to Ogg which is the Opus container? This the correct terminology?

>>59936779
Ogg can contain vorbis or opus. Vorbis and Opus are audio codecs. Ogg is a container.

>>59936805
It sucks that so little software that isn't audio players seem to have support for OGG Opus.

>>59936855
So which is better Ogg Flac or Ogg Opus?

>>59936966
FLAC and Opus are completely different. I store all my music in FLAC, but if I need to make them smaller, I will make OGG versions. My Fiio X1 doesn't support Opus, I hope the Rockbox port will.

>>59936966
Ogg Theora

>>59927928
Everyone except for Apple.

>>59927769
Invent something worth some scratch and see how long you think that

>>59932461
>At least they are not cassettes.

Cassettes were fucking great as long as you used type 4 metallic ones, or at the very least the type 2 chrome ones.

>>59936993
Rockbox has experimental opus support since 2013 I think. But it's not optimized.

>>59937101
And the port to the chip that the Fiio X1 uses isn't done yet.

>>59930091
Vinyl for home
Digital Rip for OTG.

>>59937101
Rockbox is ded.
Praying it will come back and save my shitty Sandisk

>>59937314
The chip that the X1 uses is apparently common in Chinese music players, hopefully this, and some other chip that's already supported, can revitalize the project. I miss the interface from when I used a Sansa Clip.

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But mp3 just werks and had a tons on pirate sites.

Flac and mp3 ftw

The rest are cuck formats

FLAC and Opus are the only patrician choices.

MP3 is for retards.

>>59929212
Hardware companies want to make money. Opus doesn't help them doing that.

No patents = no incentive

>>59934286
>no fdk-aac

>>59935499
>hevc
>permissive
HEVC demands royalty payments even for distributing content (a thing AAC and AVC never did). That's why even Netflix is looking for a royalty-free codec.

>>59937073
>type 4
>type 2
Even Type 1 with Dolby C or S sounded acceptably good.

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>>59927514
will this shit be gone ?
it wont be missed

AV1 fucking when?

>>59938597
Shit music in flac is shit.
Good music encoded properly in 320kbps mp3 sounds good.

Your argument is totally retarded. In the real world, you most likely can't tell the difference in most cases. Unless you're a dog.

99.9999% positive that I could fool you with a good mp3, with spectral delay on high frequencies.
>stands up to your spectrum analyzer
>because that's the tool you would need
>because you can't tell the difference with your ears

Obviously raw and lossless compression is technically better. But you have to have really good ears and really good kit to hear it.

>>59939046
It's not the best AAC encoder.

http://listening-tests.hydrogenaud.io/igorc/aac-96-a/results.html

>>59928576
It's still alive just in a development hell. Seems de-AOL'ing Winamp takes a lot of work.

>>59934549
You're fucking retarded.

>>59939019
>No patents = no incentive
The codec is already developed, and the hardware companies won't have to pay any royalties.

>>59927639
>inconsequential

it's literally nothing but padding with 0s

>>59929392
>>59929162

you fucking morons, upsampling is literally just a padded file. the shit that you linked is when 'audiophiles' try to extract better audio from the original source, which is pointless and stupid. A lot of them will have euphonic sound but it will not be 'better' in the digital sense

>>59939852
No you dumb shit, upsampling will always introduce jitter, aka loss in quality. When you convert 44.1k -> 48k you introduce more samples into the signals and they don't overlap exactly with where the original samples were. This forces the certain samples to start sooner or later than in the original, and requires either duplicated or interpolated samples to be inserted. This is jitter, like the >>59929392 shows you. And jitter is a loss of quality.

Upsampling audio is like nearest neighbor upscaling of graphics, it will look/sound like shit. See left and right of pic related.

Now because we're talking about 48 thousands of audio samples per second rather than a 16x16 pixels sprite then you are not very likely to hear it unless you have a non-meme audiophile hearing and $10k worth of playback equipment, but it is a quality-degrading process. If you're too dense to understand that then consider holding your breath for 30 minutes.

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>>59940810
>>59939852
pic related

>>59936052
Wasn't FLIF a scam?

Tbh this requires a separate thread.

>>59938014
sauce?

>>59939206
Hopefully next year.

>>59940810
>Upsampling audio is like nearest neighbor upscaling of graphics
you can use any resampling algorithm for audio (sinc-based, spline-based, whatever), each with different properties
images and audio are at their code signals and you can resample any signal in many ways

>This forces the certain samples to start sooner or later than in the original
this is true, but can you really notice a sample that lasts 1/48000 of a second? an audiophile would answer yes, of course
the DAC in your audio setup probably adds more errors than a stray sample

>>59940810
>>59941035
forgot to mention, when your DAC turns digital to analog it is interpolationg the samples to obtain a signal (samples are just points, a signal is continuous function)
so resampled or not, your digital audio will always be interpolated
it's better to resample it to a higher sample rate with a good algorithm than to let your DAC do it

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>>59941035
>you can use any resampling algorithm for audio (sinc-based, spline-based, whatever), each with different properties
Yes, and just like some image resampling algos are better at some things (eg. preserving sharp diagonals) but bad at other things (eg. turning fine details into a mess full of halos) you will get the same trade-offs when resampling audio, except you will get muddled bass, fucked up highs or hamonics etc.

>this is true, but can you really notice a sample that lasts 1/48000 of a second? an audiophile would answer yes
Literally what I said in my post, but this wasn't the point of the discussion.

>>59941115
>it's better to resample it to a higher sample rate with a good algorithm than to let your DAC do it
More signal transformations is never better than less signal transformations. The only scenario where frequency upsampling won't introduce additional errors is if you exactly double the frequency.

>>59939178
>Unity
Yeah, it gone.

>>59941309
>More signal transformations is never better than less signal transformations.

MP3 always does both PQF and MDCT for no good reason. I wonder if how this is problematic compared to one time 44100Hz -> 48000Hz upsampling.

>>59935245
midi them

>>59936052
Ah, I remember when some people here on /g/ tried to push for apng support before webm support was added. iirc it never got anywhere because of the lack of native Chrome support. Good times.

>>59940903
lana rain

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>>59940903
go fuck yourself baka senpai desu

>>59940865
>a scam
What do you mean?

>>59944282
>So, whats the final verdict?
mp3 is shit and opus is better in everything

>>59935245
We still have MIDI, anon.

>>59928150
new to linux, I want this, what the fuck am I looking at exactly? what do i have to put on a usb and boot from to achieve this

>>59939206
SOON

when does h.264 go out?

those patents have caused more damage to computing than many others.

literally every god damn thing depends on nonfree firmware because of retarded h.264 patent terms.

please delet.

>>59932474
they're floating off venture capital and probably will continue to do so. just like all the other memey millennial tier services like snapchat.

>>59927514
But FLAC, so...

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>>59930041
>implying that every record's music isn't stored in a digital format prior to pressing

Nice analogue feg.

>>59941660
You know what he meant smart arse.

>>59945105
install manjaro gnome or antergos gnome, install flatabulous darker theme and paper icons, enjoy your arch system without the timesink

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>>59927514
Can't they just re-patent the thing?

>>59947265
no. go learn how patents work.

>>59947265
Nah, they can't.

>>59932285
I can easily and so should you tell the difference between 256kbps mp3 and 192kbps OPUS/Vorbis. 320kbps mp3 > 192 OPUS is tricky at times but definitely observable with either overly compressed sources, sources with tons of shit going on, etc.

I can only tell the difference between 192kbps OPUS/Vorbis and FLAC masters using high end headphones or on at least mid-range speakers plugged into my expensive receiver W.R.T the amount of channels in the source, tuned for true reproduction balance and not the particular source or perceived frequency balance. Low bitrate, relatively, DOLBY 5.1 rips on public torrents kill me.

For what it's worth my ears ain't the best, I score about 2/3rds the tests gold on that website that tests your ear sensitivity.

Fraunhofer can sell a proprietary Opus encoder if it is better than open source reference libopus.

>>59943985
not him but as someone well-informed on FLIF project - FLIF is not going to be replacing anything anytime soon.

It's more of a research project trying to combine or balance the benefits of .TIFF files, .PNG files, and .JPG. It currently even doesn't support ordinary photo stuffs like metadata. It's sole goal right now is research....

and lots of people have issues with the licensing. It's currently GPLv3, versus LGPL at the very least, because the researcher doesn't want some company figuring out something he didn't, taking off and running with it. It will be changed later, and this infuriates the license autist.

>>59935206
That's not a person you stupid nigger, that's the average rating of a particular test track

>>59940833
I don't follow

>>59939019

Hardware companies will get behind opus because a lot of them have singed up for Alliance for Open Media

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alliance_for_Open_Media#Members

>>59947319
Patents are a one time thing?

>>59951622
Existing ideas are considered prior-art and the patent can be invalidated. Or if the idea is so common that everyone keeps filing patents for it then it doesn't qualify for a patent in the first place because it's common knowledge or something like that.

>>59935830
Nope, phones usually use >>59935856
People normally use .mp3 and .flac
I personally don't use .flac because filesize is retardedly huge (2~3x of .mp3) without any noticeable difference with 300kbps+ .mp3 files.

>>59927514
expired in 2012 in the EU. get with the times, murifags

I don't get it. Does this mean we can download music for free now?

>>59927928
Clearly youtube.

>>59927739
if someone trains for years, and spends a similar amount of time to prove something difficult, why are they less entitled to the fruits of their labors than someone who put seeds in the ground?

>>59952673
This means, you can distribute the binary of MP3 encoders in murrica without license fee.

>>59952740
Because they didn't invent it. Patents are for inventions.

>>59952816
methods can't be inventions?

Tfw my car only plays mp3

Redpill me on a better format than MP3. I'm interested on acceptable quality/low size files for my phone and stuff.

>>59951622
Yes. Trademarks and Copyrights are not, (at least, Disney's made copyrights not work that way) but patents expire at a set date. For example, Velcro was patented, but after the patent expired, other companies could make it. But, they could not call it Velcro because Velcro is a trademark of the original company, kind of like Jello.

>>59954773
.wma

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>>59954773
>>59955250
ogg vorbis
ogg opus

how's life under that rock of yours?

>>59932474
Spotify is reinvesting its profits into growth. Considering their revenue doubled in two years despite already being a huge company back in 2013, it's clearly working very well.

>>59949603
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alliance_for_Open_Media#Members

>Apple is missing
>Top kekkery kikery jewington mc sheckles

What's the difference between vorbis and opus? Which one do I go for?

>>59954773
.midi

>>59927652
>is that not the point?
No, the patent system was developed to give creators a limited time to profit from their inventions before they went on to benefit society as a whole, but in the tech world the current patent terms might as well be a lifetime.

The original 14 years was plenty for non-tech shit back in the 1700s, (now it's 20 and that's pushing it even further, especially since technology lets us develop shit way faster than back then), but for computer/software tech 20 years is way too long, it should be maybe 2-3, 5 max. And more like 10 for other shit. Unfortunately corporations and their political allies et al. will see to it that they're the only ones who can ever benefit from advancements.

>>59954773
all formats in use todays are better than mp3 to some degree
mp3 nowadays is like the "lowest common denominator" of sorts, it was the format that was used when digital music piracy really took off at the end of the 90's, when computers became powerful enough to decode it in realtime on the cpu, and the filesizes were small enough to be managable over dialup and people could store a reasonable number of them on their hdd's

as far as "acceptable quality/low file size" goes, opus and he-aacv2 are the best
opus approaches transparency around 96kbps, he-aacv2 sounds ok down to 48kbps, and at least usable down to 24kbps, though it's not meant to be very transparent

>>59956134
>Apple
>open standards
The few projects about open source they approve are the ones they create or buy. If they are not leading, they are not interested.

>>59959812
they're not as bad as say, Oracle
Apple opened up ALAC, and they develop CUPS (sure, they didn't make cups initially, but i guess it's possible they could have closed it off when they bought it)

>>59949603
funny how only content resellers and chipmakers are on this list. without a single producer in sight

>>59959884
It would be better if Apple opened ALAC before FFmpeg had released their own LGPL ALAC codec.

I bet all you faggot that care about lossless audio (as if 320kbps MP3 isn't enough for most stuff) don't even have headphones to take advantage of it.

>>59961683
I can't remember when I fell for the HD600 meme, but they sound amazing.

>>59941660
kek

>>59935181
AAC just sucks

It looks good on paper but there is always a noticeable rolloff on the high end, I don't know why

>>59952946
>being this retarded

>>59941309
Right looks better in the thumbnail.

>>59963009
You can ABX 256k AAC from lossless?

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>>59927514
Patent 5,924,060: August 29, 2017
Patent 5,703,999: December 30, 2017

>>59961683
Not everyone is poor like you, anon.

>All these retards not getting the point of lossless
It's called archiving, retards.

>>59967256
>digital formats
>archiving
Nah

>>59967256
Is there an equivalent of the RAW image format but for sounds, or something like that?

>>59970457
you have no idea how stupid you sound

>>59928650
Isn't m4a the audio format in mp4

Heh

mp4 is a container. You can put mp3 in mp4 and foobar2000 plays it.

if mp3 is so great why isn't there an mp3 2 yet?

>>59970713
MPEG-2 AAC is the format that Fraunhofer developed after MP3.

>>59970799
>mpeg-2
so mp2? so he made a prequel?

>>59939149
Dolby C was available only on nice recent decks, S was rare as fuck
And both needed to be correctly calibrated to work well on different decks, and that was pretty rare on most C decks

>>59970816
MP2(MPEG-1 layer-2) is a format developed by Phillips. MPEG owns many formats by different companies.

How does this affect someone who is not an audiophile?

>>59970890
so he sotle another format's name to make his prequelk

>>59936449
>helix was this good in 2005
wat

>>59970910
Just read this.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MP3

>>59939178
WiFi, flash and other media are still patent encumbered or proprietary

>>59971002
Okay I read the link, now what?

>>59939206
Bitstream freeze in August, hardware decoders are expected to sample in December

>>59927543
>by the time they expire they're damn near worthless

That's the point, goy!

>>59927928
Vorbis gives me a massive boner.

>>59970457
uncompressed, like WAV?

>>59971016
Fraunhofer is not a person and AAC is not a prequel to anything.

>>59971092
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_von_Fraunhofer
if it's not a prequel why did they call it mp2 instead of mp3 2?

>>59971126
mp2 and AAC are two different formats. Also, AAC's original name was NBC(Non Backward Compatible). Now, you get the idea.

>>59971207
But if it's not mp3 2 then why did you bring it up when i asked why there's no mp3 2?

>>59971214
Because AAC is officially the successor by the same developers.

>>59927928
Spotify uses vorbis

>>59971240
yeah but it's not mp3 2 there is a difference between a successor and a sequel

>>59971293
Then, there is no sequel to mp3 except for dead extensions like mp3Pro, etc.

>>59971316
so then if mp3 is so great why isn't thee an mp3 2?

>>59971383
because a sequel wouldn't bring anything new to the table

>>59971418
what about video support

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>>59928078
>using iTunes
aahahahahahaha

get musicbee

>>59971383
They tried extensions such as mp3Pro, mp3HD and mp3Surrund and they all busted. Who wants to waste more money.

>>59932285
>implying we can't simply because you have shitty hearing and speakers

>>59971435
AV1 is going to be the standard next year.

>>59971270
Spotify should use Opus

>>59971023
I seriously can't wait.

>>59970520
yes

>>59963009
This

>>59970457
Sound is a waveform fellow /p/haggot, you can increase the sampling frequency and bit depth and all, and then save it as PCM or losslessly compress it with any of the available algorithms. As long as you can re-create the original bit-to-bit from the compressed one, you're good.

There's no Bayer transforms or other fuckery (white balance, picture profiles) required in sound as in RAW digital photographs and you don't "develop" sound as you would a digital photo, so no, there's no RAW sound equivalent other than what I wrote in the paragraph above.

>>59927514
Why should I care? We have better formats since forever.

When will podcasts start distributing as Vorbis/Opus?

>>59970457
from what i understand, raw images are unprocessed data straight from an imaging device, and not a "final" viewable/printable format

with audio, microphones are sampled at a fixed rate and depth, and those samples are then stored as-is or compressed. these raw PCM samples are already directly usable, and require no further processing, though even if uncompressed, they're often given a header to describe the rate and depth, most commonly using the .wav container format, the PCM samples are not modified

>>59927514
So, will Fedora and other distros start to allow MP3s now?