is this the power of nvidia? is nvidia sabotaging ryzen?

It's almost as if they actually are

>>59844662
Are these real benchmarks, or photoshopped?

Good thing I'm not planning to go with Nvidia next build, but RX 480/580/570.

>>59844680
it certainly looks that way doesn't it?

>>59844730
they're real.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/64r0hj/thanks_nvidia_for_letting_ryzen_5_look_bad/

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The way you're meant to be played™

>>59844774
>lereddit
Fuck off back to r/amd, you street shitting filth.

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>>59845020
DELETE THIS

>>59845020
Holy fuck NVIDIA get your shit together.

>>59845020
I never thought nvidia drivers would become so shit.

>>59845473
And AMD's got so much better.

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You guys are so mean, nvidi is just trying to save the planet :^)

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>>59845038
i'm starting to wonder if you really have all this spare or if you're literally on the clock.


ah, and
Osu~

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I'd be more concerned about the magically scaling 7400. Apparently having lower clocks ensures better performance.

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>>59845692
amada is cuuuuuuuuuute!

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>>59845737
I love Amada!

>>59845720
i noticed werid results like that one. one shitpost thread on /g right now trying to shit on the r5 has a magical 7600 performing better than a 7700k at sock clocks.

>>59845038
You know these are anandtech graphs? It's literally on their front page.
Why even ask for source?

>>59845720
It's probably nothing more than a timer bug.
I'd be worried about Windows if this can be consistently reproduced

>>59845943
>>59845997

These results instantly cast doubt on how accurate the entire review is, regardless of whether the results work for or against the product being tested. As it stands at absolute face value with all else being equal these results are impossible.

>>59845997
i'm more worried that they benched with windows in the first place.

>>59846153
The hell? This isn't the first time this has happened, OS scheduling is complicated, and outliers will always exist, just a few weeks back Ryzen had more performance when coming out of Sleep than it had from cold boot, a timer bug, and this is no doubt something similar.

To dismiss an entire review over this from a reputable site that's been running for some 20 years is nonsense.

>>59846208
>reputable
implying anandtech is reputable

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>>59846218
You're the most reputable one, anon.

>>59846237
>You're the most reputable one
implying i'm reputable

>>59846264
I can see you are.
I'm good at reading people.

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Even with nvidia gimping 1600x looking good.
Just 7% less fps, $100 less price and no stutter.

>>59846208

>OS scheduling is complicated, and outliers will always exist

Sure, but if anandtech was worth their salt they would've gone "hmm, this looks odd, what is going on?" and either omitted the test from the final results or at least wrote a short paragraph that the results are repeatable and thus stand.

Given how these sorts of reviews work they probably only did a single run and just slapped the results in a chart without any real analysis. In fact the entire review (like many others) is severely lacking in analysis of the results they get.

Its why a lot of the ryzen 7 reviews were atrocious.

>"according to my learnings ryzen is shit at vidya, do not buy!"
>"Why is that mr reviewer? What do you think is causing these rersults?"
>"¯\(°_o)/¯ and i'm not going to investigate because fuck you"
>"Jesus Steve calm your tits and cut your hair"

>>59846349
From my experience most of these test runs all automated, they don't even see the results until they push them in an excel table later, at least after so many years I personally wouldn't be waiting in front o the monitor waiting for them to finish.

R51500X/RX580 is a 1070/7700 for half the proice?

>>59846407
>1500X
Get the 1600 for $30 more and don't be retarded

>>59846385

All that says is their method of proofreading is using auto spellcheck in MS word. So not only are they lazy they don't even look at the shit they publish.

The automation isn't a problem but when you get results like this they should go back and test properly. Plus it angers me most reviewers only run a game for 30 seconds to a minute which can mess with results a lot (particularly gpu reviews as Nvidia's boost skews results hard as cards can boost really fucking high before they heat up). I dislike Hardocp for many reasons but one thing they do right is their test sequences tend to be 5 minutes long which isn't so prone to those odd results - classics like counting the start of benchmarks where assests are loading in and fps drops way, way down.

>>59846453
games should be ran at least 30 minutes to get real averages
sample rate is too low, even 5 minutes is not enough
the heck else are they doing? it's their job to be precise

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>>59846311
>1600x only 10 frames behind THE fastest single threaded CPU out there with blistering clocks on all games
Good shit, I'm tempted on going 1600x instead of 1700 and then go all in on whatever refined Zen comes out next year.
On another note, I wonder why the 6900k performs so well when the 1800x should be matching it.

>>59845020
>Nvidia has no drivers

Now It's like all AMD memes now belong to Intel and NVIDIA. 2017 has been fucking hilarious.

>>59846453
Who tests games anymore? It's all built in benchmarks now.

Why do you think everyone tests Ashes, Warhmamer, Tomb Raider? Nobody plays these things.

>>59846515
>I wonder why the 6900k performs so well when the 1800x should be matching it.
it's matching it, anything less than 10 fps is margin of error

also it's just 3 games pulling averages down warhammer, rotr and fallout4

>>59845020
It's long, but it's well worth it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIoZB-cnjc0

tl;dw: Nvidia has a godtier software scheduler on DX11, but they can't do that shit on DX12, at least not yet. AMD has godly hardware that takes cares of the scheduling itself when the game is coded correctly.

>>59846567
real reason behind amd in every console

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>>59846515
>On another note, I wonder why the 6900k performs so well when the 1800x should be matching it.

Some games pull the average down, also AGESA updates are incoming(or have already come on some boards in the last 2 days)

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>>59846567

If you can decently schedule on AMD's hardware their chips are absolute monsters. AMD (in broad terms) packs considerably more hardware into their chips (that also tend to be denser) than Nvidia does.

Its why hawaii in particular has seen such huge improvements as games have become more and more tuned to the strengths of GCN. Doom generally is a fantastic example of tapping into GCN.

>>59846582

Its also why developers curse AMD's drivers to this day.

>>59846612
Jesus Christ, that improvement.
Yeah, I'm definitely going with Ryzen this year. A 1700 or a 1600 will do, this 3570k has served me well, but I think it's time to let go.

>>59846612
>that bw and latency improvement

Oh fucking sweet!

>>59846621
To properly use GCN's hardware scheduler you need competent coders which is not the case in the age of cheap pajeet-powered ports.

>>59844662
NO IT'S JUST AMD THAT SHIT

ANGRY.JPG

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>>59845473
>>59845490
Nvidia got complacent and shitty, AMD nutted the fuck up and got gud

>>59846612
that L3 cut is more important than RAM
they promise another 6ns for RAM in May

>>59846692
Nah, L3 latency per MB was already slightly superior to even Skylake, a 25% DRAM latency reduction is insane, that's practically 2 gens of hardware updates.

>>59846673

Over at B3D someone coded a rough as fuck test to test out async compute. They were scratching their heads (much like most of the community was) when AMD cards were not showing the anticipated results (namely they were running slower but were not crashing - Nvidia cards ran like the devil they died as they couldn't handle the load and triggered a windows timeout).

It wasn't until a dude known as sebbi (who seriously knows his shit and one of the few deves on the site familiar with GCN) can in and explained why. Most of it was above my head.

>>59846721
Whoever designed GCN was probably some kind of savant.

>>59845020
>not even a fury X, let alone a pro duo

wewwewewewewew laddys

>>59846567
>they can't do that shit on DX12, ever

Fixed for you.

>>59844662
Oh Christ what's gonna happen when Vega hits if Nvidia is fucking up so bad?

>>59846766
Shills and deflection. Nvidia will start claiming AMD is too hard on developers forcing them to write good code.

>>59844774
>/r/Amd
totally legit
also you have to go back

>>59846814
These pictures are from AnandTech, you inbred retard.

>>59846738

Hardly - its just a gpu design that was forward thinknig in relation to certain industry trends. In some areas it is considerably behind Nvidia's architecture(s). Its why the hype train is building for vega - it looks to be the biggest shake up since AMD moved to GCN from Terascale.

Hawaii, polaris and fiji all focused on different improvements and vega sets to be all that plus more. However that could induce other chip bottlenecks or regressions.

>>59846718
realistically speaking what would i as a gamer (+ recording & cpu heavy emulation) but also as video, audio editor would gain from updating my bios with the newest agesa code?
Are the improvements actually noticeable in said workloads? I've updated my bios 4 times in the last month and i'm tired of it as i personally haven't noticed any improvement with the 4 previous ones, so i'm wondering if it's not better to wait 1 - 2 months for even more improved bios instead of updating every time

>>59846855
The AMD AGESA update (AMD official one) is the largest BIOS update and possibly the biggest BIOS update for the duration of the processor, it's very rare for the processor to not display its full performance at launch day, so this is pretty big, and considering how much Ryzen loves memory this is great.

As for what I'll improve, practically anything that skips the caches and goes for the DRAM, so pretty much everything outside of microbenchmarks that fit in the caches.
How much performance increase I can't really say, can be anything from 2% to 15% and possibly even higher in edge cases depending on how shitty the application is.

>>59846852
I wonder how the fuck HBCC works and what the fuck is it in general.

>>59846795
NVIDIA confirmed for poojeet-tier garbage

>>59846939
Nah, they used to write good drivers. Key word is 'used'. Why did everything go so wrong.

>>59846955
I guess they also sat on their ass doing nothing, just like Intel

>>59846921

HBCC is (to my understanding) basically about having an onboard controller that can address many different types of memory. It is primarily a way to reduce latency by ignoring the cpu (for example) and going straight to system ram. Its not a new concept but the latency penalty for doing it is enormous.

If you saw the those blue coloured radeon pro chips they announced a while back with the bolt on SSD? They are probably using an early revision of the HBCC so they can swap out vram to the SSD and back without murdering performance.

>>59847050
And that's why i love AMD. They'll never outsell Intel/NVIDIA, but hey, they are making cool new tech.

>>59844662
so basically if AMD wasn't a bunch of lazy brown jews and released vega and ryzen at the same time they would have basically won. see this is why women can't run companies

>>59847120
>see this is why women can't run companies
What? Why? Su basically unfucked AMD.

>>59847184
nah they are fucked. ryzen is a massive flop because nvidia and intel were able to steer the narrative. vega isn't due for so fucking long nvidia has the ability to destroy vega whenever they wish. AMD is walking ghost syndrome now they look healthy but they can't recover

>>59847120
Vega is held back because getting it validated is hard due to shitload of new features it has, plus that allows them to squeeze out more clockspeed and drivers for launch.

Sensible choice, everything in recent AMD GPU history (Fiji, Hawaii, Polaris) has one or two very obvious bottlenecks hampering down a pretty powerful architecture.

>>59847243
The heck are you fucking smoking? Get medication, Volta isn't out until like Q2 2018.

Vega is already fucking out by the way, but for the machine learning market.

>>59847243
People were saying AMD are fucked for the past, what, five years? And they are still here, releasing new CPUs and GPUs. Also Vega is the biggest change to GCN ever, so there's no reason to rush it out.

>>59847279
AMD will likely never fully disapear. just from the discrete GPU market they are effectively gone and their cpu market may limp along for a time

>>59847279
>five years?
More like 2007, when Barcelona launched.
Now they have a very competitive CPU arch and an incoming monster of a GPU

>>59847305
>just from the discrete GPU market they are effectively gone
What? They recently launched their Radeon Instinct line, and are about to release consumer Vega, their drivers are better than ever and ROCm is ready to compete with CUDA. Like, what the hell are you really smoking? Some kind of crack.

>>59847243
Vega 10 is bigger than GP102 by some 20% it would make sense for it to take more time to launch, remember that the full GP102 only launched a month ago in the form of Quadro P6000

>>59847243
>where's Vega

Here's your fucking Vega, and it's a fucking beast.

https://videocardz.com/amd/radeon-instinct/radeon-instinct-mi25

>>59847381
>12.5gflops FP32
That's actually a metric fuckton of compute. I wonder how well it'll transition into gaming performance.

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>>59844662
>sabotaging ryzen with a card that was relseased before ryzen
AMDrones are literally this retarded

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>>59847381

>>59847436
>300w tdp

>>59847492
Yes and?

>>59847467
>what are drivers

>>59847502
A) It's 250W
B) We can make up the power difference by using
a 65W R7 1700 instead of a 140W 6900K :^)

>>59847541
I don't really care. I just wonder how well will it's compute performance translate into gaming.

>>59847381
>5,000$ AMD dedicated compute card barely beats 800$ nVidia gaming card in compute
AHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

>>59847554
Said nvidia card can't do fp16/fp64 for shit, and can only dream about any int perf.

>>59847325
>Barcelona
for those interested in barcelona: http://www.anandtech.com/show/2183

>>59847554
Nobody besides server vendors have these cards for testing.

>>59847552
somewhere above a 1080 at worst, possibly touching a 1080ti at best.

If amd got that fucker saturated and literally did no optimizations that were not for saturation, then it's possible to get close to titanxp but i'm not even considering this an option.

It could also clock higher then the pro line as its not passively cooled, that may put it leagues above what nvidia has depending on how high the clocks are, but another thing i'm not even considering an option till shown, as I fully beleive amd is going to screw gamers again like they did with the 480 and only give us the shit enterprise would not take.

>>59847552
My shitpost has been erroneously aimed at the wrong poster, apologies.

12.5 puts in in Titan Xd territory if I'm not mistaken, but nvidia traditionally have managed to get more FPS out of less compute performance.

>>59847609
this shit will be expensive, huge die + hbm2

>>59847630
HBM2 is not that costly. Huge die is.

>>59847609
Vega has the same core setup as Fiji, 4096 shaders, but Vega on the other hand is clocked 50% fucking higher! Remember that Fury X boosted to 1050MHz..

Just from clockspeed alone it should put it in 1080ti teritory, the current Fury X has a VRAM bottleneck and it's only some 10% slower than a 1070.

>>59847520
Well then retard, buy a system and test it with both the latest and earlier nvidia drivers. If there's a significant performance difference, I.E. nvidia are deliberately sabotaging ryzen products, it will be one of the biggest tech stories of the decade. You'll get a shitton of pageview money and nvidia might even get into legal trouble.

But you won't. You won't even send an email to Anandtech suggesting that they try this. Because we both know you're just a butthurt fanboy

>>59846682
Su's AMD is basically a different company

>>59847570
The same will obviously be true about the AMD gaming version of the compute card too, retard

Autistic question, but what's the point of having over 60 fps.

>>59847695
Because you can.

60 -> 100 FPS is nice, but 144FPS is a meme

>>59847695
same point as in having over 30.

>>59847690
So what your shitpost was not just retarded, it was completely irrelevant.

>>59847713
>your shitpost was not just retarded, it was completely irrelevant.
I made a post that was about as smart and relevant as the post i was replying to

>>59847627
>nvidia traditionally have managed to get more FPS out of less compute performance
yeah thanks to their software schedulers and the use of dx11. but with dx12 and its more reliance on hardware scheduling due to more direct hardware access, nvidia has really been flailing like a fish out of water. their architecture designs they committed to starting with keplar where they gutted the hardware scheduler, downplayed compute, laughed at the idea of developers wanting more low level hardware access, http://www.anandtech.com/show/5699/nvidia-geforce-gtx-680-review/3 , http://techreport.com/review/26239/a-closer-look-at-directx-12/3 , has slowly been stabbing them in the back.

>>59847630
several reasons it wont be.
1) give me a number on hbm2 that tells me it costs a lot, I can wait, you know what, show me definitive proof that 8gb of it costs more then 80$

amd is selling the hbm2 on package, unlike gddr where its up to vendors to source and they can bloat the price dramatically

2) What part of enterprise cant use it so its either throw it away or sell it to consumers screams expensive? this is a recup the cost gpu where anything sold is proffit as they would have just thrown it away otherwise, amd should be treating it like that, apposed to this is where they are making their money, as they cant compete with nvidia, people want an effective monopoly and got it.

3) with such low market share, a home run for consumers could stave off nvidia proprietary bullshit, this should be seen as a tactic to make headboards in with navi, instead of out pricing yourself to the point that you go significantly sub 20% and you get games that will only run on nvidia because why bother with amd at all if they have so few users?

Rockstar did this with gta5 and dual core cpus while true dual cores no threading still made up over 15% of the market, This should be a very real worry to amd, selling scraps at cost is a small nill profit from consumer gaming to stave off being completely shut out.

>>59847735
I don't see Volta having a hardware scheduler so I guess AMD's DX12 domination is going to continue for a while.
And if AMD can get full ALU utilization where it can reach that TFLOP utilization, even DX11 will be trouble for Nvidia considering their DX11 thread server relies too much on software updates.

>>59844662
while there is a clear conflict of interest here, AMD is in a perfect position to optimize their GPU drivers since they own both technologies to begin with

I'd expect Nvidia and AMD to cooperate at least a tiny bit before release so that this shit doesn't happen, but it very clearly didn't and it's not clear which company is responsible

after all, fucking competitors over is typical Nvidia behavior, and botching release hard is ALSO typical AMD behavior

>>59847767
They NEED hardware scheduling. No amount of driver voodoo magic will help leverage the performance gap in low level APIs.

>>59847657
same number of shaders, VASTLY different approach to how that are utilized.

and no, just no. clock speed alone, which puts it at 12.5tflops put it just above a 1080 to half way between a 1080 and 1080ti

They could clock the thing significantly higher then enterprise, but till they say they did, I dont consider that a real option.

to make ANY headway on going from 1080 to 1080ti they need to have optimizations, something they have, but we have seen no real world use of yet. this is where the difference between a 1080 and 1080ti will come from.

the current fury x has a fuckload of utilization bottlenecks, a retarded scheduler that is only recently being taken advantage of that has plagued gcn from day one, so on so forth.

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>>59847795
They don't need if DX12/Vulkan doesn't take off the ground(will, but Nvidia hopes it won't until they get their hardware scheduler back, and hopefully it's not Fermi this time)

I mean look at the current tested games, half are DX12

>>59847825
I mean there's clearly a IPC per ALU increase even from Fiji to Polaris(which isn't even 10% slower) Fiji is 4096 shaders while Polaris is some 2300, while it is clocked higher, it's not that much higher to compensate for the missing 32 ROPs, memory bandwidth AND 75% shaders.

As I said, just clockspeed alone would make Vega competitive, with this much of a improvement(probably even higher because Vega is a new arch) in IPC it's gonna be sweet

>>59845473
nvidia's drivers use to be 40% of the reasons windows machines crashed, while ati's at their worst were 28%, and we are talking about when ati was at its absolute worst.

but a time when nvidia's drivers are shit recently? haven't they released at least 1 gpu destroying driver a year since the 200 series? and haven't people who use nvidia gpus told you to stop installing game ready drivers because of how shit they have been for the last what, year, two years?

Schedulers and drivers aside, there has been a clear trend of moving from pixelpush centric game designs to shader math designs over the years, this doesn't spell all too great for Nvidia considering the arch difference.

>>59847894
even if vega is only as fast as a 1080 its more then competitive due to the what it uses memory now. while nvidia would shit itself if something used more than 8gb of vrm, amd will be nearly untouched.

>>59847928
I always google the driver version and "issues" to see what kind of threads are complaining about it. Never had any problems with AMD or Nvidia drivers that way.

>>59844662
>Ultra Settings
>does not expand on what features were turned down or adjusted
So exploitable, graphs are
>>59845020
>clearly a CPU-limited game
Civ 5 and 6 were so bottlenecked by the CPU that it's not even funny. You can get similar results with a GTX 970 and an i7-5960X. Not even joking.

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>>59847958
Only in delusional lala land would the 1080 be the Vega competitor(maybe the 4GB one with 600 shaders missing), Vega is Fiji's successor, and Fiji is like 25% slower than 1080.

Come on, you mean to tell me AMD can't get over 30% from a fucking 28nm>14nm node shrink on top of FinFETs, on top of that with a new architecture?
Be real.

>>59848007
So the up coming Vega release, is that the equivalent of titan X?

How much later will consumer versions be available? And when is Vega even supposed to be released?

>>59848007
That charts show the 1080 being only 19% faster.

>>59848075
>And when is Vega even supposed to be released?
June. Maybe July.
>So the up coming Vega release, is that the equivalent of titan X?
Compute-wise? Hell yeah.
>How much later will consumer versions be available?
Enterprise versions are already available. It's consumer Vega that everyone is waiting for.

>>59848075
Using some napkin math, the full Vega will either be 15% slower than a Titan XP to 10% faster than it.
It's a 30% variance, but there's so much new stuff in Vega compared to everything before it's really hard to judge performance.
Release is Q2, so probably end of May.

>>59848007

Lets look at flops because this is easiest to show the disparity

at amds worst, they needed 33% faster gpus to compete in game with nvidias

polaris 480 and the 6gb 1060 are neck and neck, amd still needs 25-23% more powerful hardware to compete with it.

now we have numbers for vega
at worst it will preform like nvidias 8250 flop gpu
at best it will preform like nvidias 9625 flop gpu

Clock speed could be significantly higher then enterprise, but as I said >>59847752 I fully believe its going to be like the 480 where we are getting enterprise and embedded sloppy seconds at best so while they can cool passively a vega at lets say 1525mhz, maybe the consumers ones are so shit they need aftermarkets just to hit 1525

I also don't believe this is the gen where amd trys to retake anything from nvidia, vega is a test bed for navi, that gpu will let amd sweet spot a gpu or make it fully modular releasing full product skus at lower prices, this gen is largely an 'oh god don't let us loose enough market share to nvidia that developers decided to make nvidia only games, please fucking god don't let that happen."

>>59847993
ultra settings mean anything other then ultra?

This thread is dead, get in the new one:
>>59847770
>>59847770
>>59847770
>>59847770

>>59848162
>now we have numbers for vega
>at worst it will preform like nvidias 8250 flop gpu
>at best it will preform like nvidias 9625 flop gpu
That's how it would be for 4k shader Polaris. Vega is different. Quite literally.

>>59848105
When I say consumer, I mean general consumers, not enthusiats.

GTX 1080 and GTX 1080 Ti, as well as Titan X and it versions, aren't consumer cards. Titan X is more of an "enterprise" card, and 1080/1080 Ti are enthusiast cards.

1070 is like the very edge of a consumer card.

>>59848202
Considering ayymd's long history of pricing flagmans at 550-650 tops, it'll be okay value. Smaller Vega is shrouded in total mystery though.

>>59848162
>polaris 480 and the 6gb 1060 are neck and neck, amd still needs 25-23% more powerful hardware to compete with it.

Didn't Raja himself admit that with Vega they're looking at ways to feed the GPU better? That's basically admitting that nvidia has a tflop/relative perf advantage and they want to cut it down, they can probably get it down another 10% compared to Polaris.

>>59848244
I wouldn't be surprised if it's more.

>>59848263
Wishful thinking, but i hope so. NVIDIA needs a fucking bitchslap.

>>59847669

Competent engineering. She knows where to put the money.

>>59848199
ok, show me the actual benchmarks of vega that show me wrong?

I'm not pulling 'shit will be great' out of my ass, i'm just saying where it realistically lands preformance wise.

to outpace a 1080ti amd needs to get their performance disparity down to 15%

I believe they could do it, but so far its been completely unseen

They could also pull ahead with clocks.
at 33% it would need to pull 1900 out of its ass, not happening, or at polaris level it would need to pull 1625, something reasonable, even if we get the shit end, its likely overclockable to near that speed.

but till amd shows something, I am not budging from consumers are getting 1525mhz at best cards because look at polaris where we got NO higher binned variants for nearly half a year, and that was likely due to the embedded demand tapering off.

>>59848275
Is it really? Vega is the largest architectural overhaul since Terascale>GCN

Getting higher shader utilization doesn't seem all that far fetched.

>>59848291
>to outpace a 1080ti amd needs to get their performance disparity down to 15%
Considering Vega is the biggest change to GCN since forever, they very well can do it.

>>59847767
i really thought nvidia would have done some heavy modifications with pascal in regards to their dx12 blunder with maxwell. i was very skeptical at the time with all the rumors of pascal launching may / june 2016. i didn't think nvidia would be stupid enough to rush out such a quick release. especially considering amd's road map showed vega for 2017 and polaris for late 2016. didn't take a PHD to figure out that polaris wasn't going to be a "big chip" since it clearly appeared amd was doing another 300 & fury type release. so nvidia didn't really have to rush out a release. they could have easily held off until holiday season 2016. give them a few more months to do more pascal modifications for dx12. in a way i was correct since they did some last minutes changes with how pascal handles async. but in the end it turned out to be nothing but bandaids.

i hope, in the spirit of competition nvidia does some heavy lifting with volta. seeing the bandaids they did with pascal it clearly does show they know of their weakness with async and dx12. but at the same time seeing pascal, it doesn't give me high hope of them doing radical architecture changes.

i don't know, maybe the delay and push back of volta means they are since there appears to be a pascal based refresh coming out on the horizon. in the mean time, no way could i recommend pascal for any of those who like to keep their cards longer than a year or two.

>>59848307
You see, the last time nvidia had hardware scheduling in their arch it was the biggest housefire known to man.

>>59848306
sure, in time I have little doubt, but the 7970 didnt come out the gate doing everything right, I have no faith that vega will either, and this is comeing from someone who is getting the high end vega when it drops.

>>59848307
>it doesn't give me high hope of them doing radical architecture changes.
Nvidia has no choice with Volta, their clocks on Pascal are way too high for such a wide IC like a GPU, at too high clocks you get clock signal clarity and stability issues, which is more of a laws of physics issue than Nvidia would like to admit or tackle.

I fully expect Volta will be clocked lower than Pascal.

>>59848330
>I have no faith that vega
No one has. We don't know SHIT about Vega.

>>59848349
>We don't know SHIT about Vega.
We know it's clocked from 1530MHz to 1600MHz, we know it's 4096 shaders.

That should be a good point to start speculating since Fiji is such a similar core configuration.

>>59848379
Vega is the biggest change to GCN ever made. That's the fucking point. Like, what the fuck is HBCC and how does it work? Did they fix shader utilization?

>>59844662
NOVIDEOED.COM

>>59848349
we know enough to say

1) at worst, 1080 and at best half way between 1080 and 1080ti with what we currently have at our disposal
2) we were shown off vega handling deus ex at max settings with a firmware limited 2gb of vram with little to not problem because of how they are handling vram now.

I am looking at this like the 7970, where there was so much untapped potential that it allowed it to compete with 3 generations of gpus, maybe not the best gpus for one gen, but definitely competed across 3 gens.

With the vram change, this allows me to buy the gpus and not worry about 'we are going 4k in less than a year, and games like re7 already use 8gb of vram' as even if they do, there is only a minor performance hit.

>>59848379
Its clocked at 1525 on the passive for enterprise.

speculation is done, its between a 1080 and halfway between a 1080 and 1080ti

Till amd gives us anything else, this is all we can say without massive leaps of faith in logic.

>>59847467
The 400 series were released before Ryzen too.

>>59848430
>Its clocked at 1525 on the passive for enterprise.
That's the best ASIC you can get. Not realistic considering AMD's stance on consumer market.

>>59848434
How does that change anything about nvidia retard?

>>59848485
the consumer ones will either get better cooling or get water cooling, I would be shocked if they don't also dump voltage on them too just to make sure they samples are performance parity.

>>59848348
oh i agree, but its also the same company who just released another titan xp called the titan Xp for $1200 to replace the other titan xP that retailed for $1200 to add more insult and injury to original titan xP adopters after than 1080 ti launch.

>>59848485
Are you implying Nvidia and Intel don't save the best for enterprise/mobile too?

Mobile TDP Pascal cards would be interesting in desktops, but nope.

>>59848486
>1060 released before Ryzen and performs bad
>"It's because it was released before Ryzen!!!!"
>480 released before Ryzen and performs fine
>"Why does that matter?!?!?!?!"

>>59846496
30 minutes is unbenchable, 5 minutes though its reasonable for a person to replicate their benchmark run in games.

>>59848525
>"It's because it was released before Ryzen!!!!"
No retard, you literally can't read.
I said Nvidia couldn't sabotage ryzen with something that was released before they even knew any details about it

>>59848525
>"It's because it was released before Ryzen!!!!"
No, it's because novidea has horseshit drivers.

>>59848512
The new Titan XP is juts the full GP102, which released a month ago in the Quadro P6000.
It took a while for the full GP102 to release, Vega, being larger isn't surprising that it takes longer.

>>59848576
New Titan Xp is NVIDIA going full retard and shitting SKUs for the sake of shitting SKUs? Why? Who the fuck knows, probably too much cocaine.

>>59848244
>>59848263
>>59848275
>>59848292

Everyone at amd has admitted they have a utilization issue and everything they are showing is not showing us what their utilization is or how they tackled it outside of technical details that no one can really say what they do, once they get cards in their hands they could point out why x changes made a difference, they they can't do it the other way around.

as for wishful thinking... no. Like them or not, amd has competent hardware developers and always has, bulldozer was their worst as the ceo decided 'no, no more dev time, you are putting it out now'

>>59847767
dx12 is a failed api, look at the best use cases for dx12 and look at vulcan.

nvidia had as good an opengl driver as they had dx11 and they still gained from vulcan, meanwhile best case for nvidia on dx12 is they break even.

>>59848921
Yes, Vulkan is undeniably better. BUT it's MS who controls PC gaming market. And they leverage DX12.

>>59848603
nvidia wants to retain 'most powerful gpu' title most likely.

If that's the case, they got wind of vega clocks and compared it to polaris, or they are damage controlling for vega like they did with fury.

>>59848985
They damage controlled Fiji with $650 980ti. That Titan just makes zero sense.

>>59848985
>they got wind of vega clocks

They had that in FUCKING DECEMBER 4 MONTHS AGO
AS DID WE AS WELL, you people are impossible, do you even follow tech news? AMD fucking did a OFFICIAL PRESENTATION of their Radeon Mi25 Instinct cards, which use Vega 10

>>59847661
who says that nvidia's earlier drivers were better?

sabotage can easily just be they refuse to optimize for amd at all if there is anything they could do.

>>59849005
>sabotage can easily just be they refuse to optimize for amd at all if there is anything they could do.
That's a nice way to shoot yourself in the leg.

>>59849005
>refuse to optimize for amd
That's not gonna do them any favors when someone benchmarks a Vega against a 1080ti in 2 months on a Ryzen system.

>>59847690
amds current gpus have full half flop position, polaris is literally 50x more powerful then titan xp in that regard.

>>59848202
>1070 is like the very edge of a consumer card.
unfortunately not if you want to run the current trash babbie tier programmers are shoveling out you need a 1080 8gb base as a consumer

>>59849022
>when someone benchmarks a Vega against a 1080ti in 2 months on a Ryzen system.

I can't wait for the slaughter

>>59849004
retard, listen, we know vega is 12.5 tflop, but even at polaris levels of efficiency, its the equivilant to a 9500 gflop nvidia card.

that's not the clock speed they got wind of. If you dont think industrial spying is a thing, you are functionally retarded.

>>59849060
Well, it's a good thing it's not at Polaris level of efficiency, isn't it?

>>59849021
not really.

80+% of the gameing market is nvidia, so most people use nvidia.

people bench amd cpus against intel with nvidia gpus, they see intel is better so they get intel not paying attention to amd.

so now you are in a situation where you need either an intel cpu, or go full amd, 1 part is easier to buy then two, and you hurt amd sales, as read this thread, you still see people saying amd needs to do better so nvidia will put something I want to buy out.

It could ryzen be sabotaging Nvidia? {•o•}

>>59848997
because they just wont compete further

look, full gp102 is a 5000$ gpu
amd is looking to potentially shit on the titan x, and the 980ti, and potentially do it for less then nvidia is chargeing. nvidia wants to retain the best gpu title, they need something in the consumer landscape, so the titan xp is what they did.

quick math with vega at polaris efficiency says it needs to be clocked at 1950mhz to beat the titan xp, and lets now assume the efficiency gains they make allow it to, at 1525 match a 1080ti, amd would still need the card to run at 1750 to beat titan xp.

the titan xp is a very hard card for amd to beat, possibly impossible without mcm, so nvidia shoved the token sku out to pre empt any faltering in their gpu dominance.

It could also be that they sold all the quatros they are going to sell and have enough 102's to justify a price drop for gamers.

>>59849203
>1950mhz to beat the titan xp,
Dude, how much faster do you think the Titan XP is than Fiji?

>>59848969
they honestly don't control shit on pc, and that's what they wanted to solve with windows 10.

the people overwhelmingly said no.

File: 1489412063768.jpg (164KB, 1046x1200px) Image search: [Google]

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>>59849172
twist of the century right here folks

>>59849088
have the shown otherwise yet?
I doubt they would go forward with vega if it was less utilized than polaris, but they have shown us nothing to suggest it is more efficient by 60+% they would need it to be to match a 1080ti.

>>59849022
and in this very thread you have people bitching about amd not doing better so they cant get a better nvidia gpu for cheaper.

you think normie mc fuckbag look and sees amd as an option?

for cpu they may, but if they look at nvidia on amd and nvidia on intel, the option is 'clear' for retarded normie mc fuckbag.

>>59849225
with polaris level optimizations, vega needs to be 1925mhz to match titan xp, sad simple math, amd has utilization problems in both hardware and drivers.

if vega can gets utilization that lets them match a 1080ti at 1525, what the pro sku is at, it would need to clock to 1750 to match the titan xp.

remember, on paper the 480 is more powerful than a 1070, but is only equal to a 1060 6gb

>>59849505
>remember, on paper the 480 is more powerful than a 1070,
What in the fuck are you smoking? The 1070 has much higher clocks and TWICE the ROPs, it's also some 35% bigger.

It's only more powerful on paper if you're on a acid trip

>>59849574
yea, im looking at flops, the 480 is equal to the 1070, its one of the reasons people thought it would match it prior to launch.

as it stands, with paris efficiently, they need 25% more flops then nvidia to get equivalent results.

>>59849618
flops don't take into account the geometry, texture units or ROPs, which are arguably more important for gaming than pure ALU.

flops are pure shader math.

>>59849649
Speaking of Geometry units and ROPs, AMD promised a 2x throughput per clock for the geometry units and linking the L2 caches to the ROPs in Vega, both are considerably big improvements for those units

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>>59844662
>it's Nvidias fault
>It's intels fault
>It's Microsofts fault
>It's the motherboard makers fault
>It's the game developers fault
>etc
I'm not against AMD in any way whatsoever but this is seriously embarrassing to do. It's like that kid in middle school who would just never take responsibility and try to deflect onto another kid.
In reality, AMD can genuinely do no wrong, it doesn't matter if they release complete garbage there will ALWAYS be an excuse or deflection to avoid accountability. It's seriously no better than Intelshills at this point.

>>59850250
>inb4 dah proof is right dere

>>59850250
Instead of ranting, explain what's going on in the OP picture

File: 1491873754657.png (39KB, 826x775px) Image search: [Google]

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>>59850250
All these things turned out to be true though.
c
>>59846612
Also, the latest version of Windows 10 added a power plan specifically for Ryzen to stop constantly power throttling it.
https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2017/04/game-patches-boost-performance-on-ryzen-showing-just-what-can-and-cant-be-done/

>>59850684
Uh huh sure they did
all true, it's everyone elses fault

>>59850739
It's funny to watch how much bs MS fanboys put up with just to defend their favorite company.

>>59850757
If I trip over a rock, it's my fault not the rocks
same as if AMD makes a processor that doesn't get along well with windows it's not microsofts fault, it's AMDs for not being able to design a processor that fucking works with windows.

>>59850774
>if AMD makes a processor that doesn't get along well with windows it's not microsofts fault, it's AMDs for not being able to design a processor that fucking works with windows.

you know on one hand you're right, but on the other hand you're a gay retard who's responsible for a world where any meaningful paradigm shift isn't accepted or explored to its full potential because it doesn't fit with the existing mediocre system

AMD and Nvidia are going to turn the PC platform into two glorified consoles.

Where's Matrox when you need them?

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>>59850774
If AMD processors work perfectly fine on every OS except Windows are all those other operating systems the problem? This is how stupid you sound. Microsoft even acknowledged the issue in a press report and fixed it in their next major update. Stop such a fanboy.

>>59850796
>>59850808
>Make a cap that doesn't fit on a bottle
>Blame the bottle

>>59850824
>cap fits on every bottle except the expensive proprietary one with a proprietary shape
>it's the caps fault
Back to /v/

>>59850824
If Windows is the only OS for PCs then I quit PCs.

>>59850824
>design a new cap that is more performant
>the bottle jews work to silence you and hide your revolution

>>59850838
>Other companies do it
>This one can't
weird how that works right? Nvidia can do it, Intel can do it, but when AMD tries and fails it's obviously a massive conspiracy right?

>>59844662
>AMD actively gimping nVidia performance

Not even surprised.

>>59850797
Fuck Matrox. RMAed a Mystique 220 from the first PC I ever built and those pigfuckers shipped out the old 170mhz card as a replacement and promptly stonewalled me. At least I had a voodoo 1 in there.

>>59844774
>amdrones willfully outing themselves as redditors

not even surprised desu

>>59850855
Hah. Good thing I went with a Riva 128 at the time.

>>59844662
why dont they just use one of amd's high end graphics cards instead of nivida?

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>>59850915
hehehehehe

>>59850250
You're an idiot if you can't tell this is what happens with every major architecture launch.

>>59847993
Ultra generally means ultra preset.
Also doesn't change the fact that AMD CPUs got better framerates across the board with a worse video card.

>>59844730
>>59845038
>>59846814
Here's the actual source
http://www.anandtech.com/show/11244/the-amd-ryzen-5-1600x-vs-core-i5-review-twelve-threads-vs-four/14

>>59844774
>Linking Reddit instead of Anandtech directly

Fuck off

>>59850954
Nobody did it with skylake or haswell
seems to only be someone elses fault when it happens to AMD

>>59852053
>Tick tock is a major architecture launch

>>59844662
>is this the power of nvidia? is nvidia sabotaging ryzen?

Honestly, does it matter? Isn't the current paradigm that some pair Intel with Nvidia and others AMD with AMD?

Regardless, this is clearly some driver issue. If it's a glitch or a check for CPUID is anyone's guess.

>>59846567
Not having seen this video, it's true. Same game with DX11 and DX12 run slower on DX12 with nvidia hardware. No idea why.

>>59845692
>>59845737
>>59845887
Nice. Very .. nice.

>>59852053
>Sandy Bridge
SATA bug
>Haswell
TSX bug (not microcode fixable)
USB sleep bug
>Skylake
Freezing bug
>Broadwell-E
Exploding mobos
shit-tier memory support
Inability to USB boot


Lol

>>59852813
ivy had a lot of usb's not turning on at start up too. i had two asrock boards, a gigabyte, and one asus board myself.

>>59852813
Except nobody blamed microsoft or any other company, all the blame was put on intel

>>59849022
>>59849047
Yep, I'm gonna laugh when a 1080Ti still kills Vega even with NVIDIA's drivers underperforming too.

>>59844662
yes they are and its why i will never buy another nvidia card

When I forked out the obscene ammount of money they charged for a gtx 1070 I was OK with it so long as it JUST WORKS with anything i put it into. Now I want a Ryzen chip because of the lower controller input latency and less stuttering and im discovering that Nvidia is gimping performance on the card I FUCKING PAID for with a CPU because its made by their competitor even though they dont even make CPUs and have no reason whatsoever to fuck with AMD cpu performance even if they occaisionally fuck with AMD gpu performance in gameworks games.

I expect you to have drivers ready for whatever the fuck build i put your card into. If Nvidia cannot handle that and the only GPU maker that seems to have proper drivers for BOTH cpu companies is AMD then when vega drops im switch to team red and never looking back.

Im not forking out extra money for an overpriced K processor and a Z motherboard just for the privilege of not having my GPU run like ass

This has been debunked, only a few games have weird losses when paired with a gtx card. Most games seem impartial and a few actually run better with ryzen+gtx than intel+gtx or even ryzen+rx480

>>59853569

t. Nvidia

>>59847630
around 500-600
600 is okay for the card close to 1080ti and above 1080

>>59848555
you miss the point why benchmarks are performed
it's not to get a number
it's to make judgement about hardware and what experience that hardware gives user
higher sample rate - true averages

frames are dots in time - more dots better analysis

>>59846453
I was about to defend anand but you make a very good point. what is your concern with hardocp?

Based aaaaaymd