Mark Shuttleworth

fuck this guy. this is why we need to fork Darwin.

>>59828478
>Desktop Linux lose 5 years of progress

Damn, you're back to 1998 now?

I don't get what redeeming quality does Ubuntu have for it to be so popular.

>>59828667
Support.

>>59828673
I'm talking about regular users, that don't use paid support.

Ubuntu is kill. Allahu Ackbar.

>>59828478
>implying that this split was responsible of something
Wayland it's fucked anyways.

>>59828677
He's talking about free support from the community, and the OS itself supporting a lot of hardware better than most LiGNUxes OOTB, you moron.

>>59828677
community support. they have a large active forum where you can usually find an answer to your problem.

>>59828696
>He's talking about free support from the community
Arch has better support for example (the best wiki, forum, IRC)
>and the OS itself supporting a lot of hardware better than most LiGNUxes OOTB
But that's fucking false.

>>59828667
I use Ubuntu for my servers because it has good tutorials.

And that's also why I have it on some desktop machines.

>>59828730
>best wiki
Lots of shit are broken in the articles.
>best forum
The kind of forum that likes to scream RTFM and masturbating to ponies
>IRC
Lel.

>>59828730
>But that's fucking false.
but it's not. OOTB it ships with tons of proprietary blobs and shit. latest ubuntu LTS played well with my skylake machine that has an nvidia quadro in it. very little tinkering needed, and optimus was working nicely in a couple of minutes. latest slackware was fucked on this box, latest opensuse was fucked on this box too.

>Arch has better support for example (the best wiki, forum, IRC)
no one said arch's wiki isn't the most stellar LiGNUx faq/help resource, but utubnu does have fantastisch documentation and community support in the form of wikis and forums as well.

>>59828770
What is broken exactly?
>>59828753
Competent people don't need tutorials, only manuals.

>>59828753
Same here. Arch has some nice tutorials too but 4chan taught me I'd become a fedora-tipping neckbeard edgelord if I use it so I'm scared. Ubuntu is linux for human beans®

>>59828797
>but it's not. OOTB it ships with tons of proprietary blobs and shit. latest ubuntu LTS played well with my skylake machine that has an nvidia quadro in it. very little tinkering needed, and optimus was working nicely in a couple of minutes. latest slackware was fucked on this box, latest opensuse was fucked on this box too.
But a lot of distros have the latest kernel.

>>59828478
and just when Unity was finally getting sort of good
fuck him, install Mint
or just go back to GNOME 2 days and install Ubuntu MATE

>>59828810
do you only use libre kernels? ubuntu kernels are modified a bunch.

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Kernel/FAQ#Kernel.2FFAQ.2FDebuggingMainlineBuildsUbuntuDrivers.Do_mainline_kernel_builds_include_Ubuntu_specific_drivers.3F

>>59828802
>Competent people don't need tutorials, only manuals.
That's the excuse to don't write proper documentation.

>>59828802
I'm not a sysadmin. And I don't intend to become one or hire one. So I'll stick to my tutorials.

>>59828839
Libre? No. But not tainted by Mark Shuttlecock ones.

Not really. Nobody gave a flying fuck about Mir in the first place, Wayland stalled because of drivers (Nvidia) and lack of program support. XWayland is still a disaster btw

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>>59828973
he's a goddamn astronaut dude. have some sensitivity. we may not understand why he does what he does, but i'm sure it's for good reason. there's so much bigotry against spacemen on this board it's unbelievable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zK-30442RII

>>59828667
>Install it
>Normie friendly UI out of the box
>Drivers mostly work out of the box
>Even a grandpa can use it

>>59828478
>(((Kike Shekelworth)))
Obvious CIA plant to destroy GNU/Linux ones and for all.

>>59829594
That's a funny way to spell Red Hat.

All these threads bashing Ubuntu, Unity and Mark while praising GNOME and Red Hat at the same time really tells you which PR team is posting right now on /g/

>>59828667
for starters it has minimize/maximize buttons by default despite what GNOME devs think.
>>59829594
>implying there is something worth destroying in the Linux desktop.

>>59829613
I'm the guy from the other thread that said they have a 50/50 Ubuntu/RHEL split at work.

I'm the reason we're using Ubuntu rather than CentOS on those half, mostly because the packaging situation on RHEL sucks. Ancient packages, RPM being a pile of crap, and so forth.

That said EL6-7 always tends to break in the same consistent ways, while Ubuntu breaks in new and interesting ways with every release. I remember Apparmor being configured OOTB to not let you write tcpdumps anything but the / filesystem.

This tradeoff is worth it because Ubuntu actually keeps their goddamn repos up to date with upstream, and we use a configuration management scheme that could best be described as "oppressive".

>>59828478
Blast him with piss.

(He likes it,)

>>59829613
seriously. red hat is shit for the desktop. gnome is shit for the desktop (without a bunch of unofficial extensions at-least). if we're gonna shill a distro with corporate roots, opensuse is the one, and at-least they default to KDE and configure it to be nice and clean for end users.

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Way to make it political, guys.

>>59829656
Why don't you use Arch on your enterprise system that requires high reliability, anon :9?

>>59829747
The thing that Shuttlecock ignores here is that Mir was literally launched based on a pack of lies about Wayland. He also has yet to answer for Ubuntu's (slowly stopping, thank fuck) history of reinventing the fucking wheel.

Wayland is gonna be the new standard? Let's post a bunch of stupid lies about it and make our own thing :^)

Everyone wants to kill sysvinit? Let's make our own thing that's used by literally no other distro :^)

Shuttlecock holds up his unique shit as if its uniqueness makes it valuable. Ask anyone who owned a cellphone prior to standardizing on USB/Lightning how much they enjoyed uniqueness for its own sake.

>>59828692
Why is Wayland fucked ?

>>59829797
What happened to Linux being about choice you hypocritical asshole?

Or that only applies when it benefits your corporate interests? So when someone builds software that competes with a Red Hat technology they are reinventing the wheel and have NIH syndrome, right?

Upstart is bad, but systemd is good?
Unity is bad, but GNOME is good?
Mir is bad, but Wayland is good?

You are not fooling anyone with your double standards, you FUD spreading faggot.

>>59828478
Mir is a much better choice than Wayland though.

>>59829999
Decent standards are better than fragmentation that's not practically superior, yes.

Upstart had NO ADOPTION OUTSIDE OF UBUNTU. Mir has NO ADOPTION OUTSIDE OF UBUNTU.

You faggots will yell and scream when other companies don't follow industry standards just to be different, but because muh loonix, it's okay? Fuck you.

Systemd won because it was better than Sysv and actually had broad buy-in.

GNOME won because, even with its warts, it's the only usable UI that's not a pile of shit that requires ricing to even sorta look okay.

Wayland won because it has broad buy in.

>>59829656
>muh outdated packages
RHEL/CentOS/OL, Suse and Debian Stable are fine you fucking nigger, it eases package distribution that does not have to rely on the main repositories. This is partly why Android, Windows and macOS have so many applications.
Linux has a bad problem of packages breaking after a short amount of time, which does not happen as often in those distros.

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>>59831021
Android, Windows, and macOS don't use packages in the same way Linux distros do you collossal superfaggot quadruplenigger. If not for the Linux community's autism about compilation, we'd have download-and-run as the default on the desktop there too.

>>59828667
social inertia
PPAs if you don't mind running code you cannot trust

>>59828667
also it has a really easy installer that works most of the time
and unity got actually kinda polished over time

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>>59831057
And I expected niggers to know that you can double click a fucking deb or rpm or whatever your gay package extension is to have it installed in your system, requiring only root password.
Kill yourself.

>>59831152
Meanwhile, I can grab a random-ass EXE installer and it'll work on most versions of Windows that ever existed.

Package managers are cancer.

>>59830978

>Decent standards are better than fragmentation that's not practically superior, yes.

Thanks for proving you have no shame in being an hypocritical asshole.

>Upstart and Mir had no adoption outside Ubuntu

Because they were solutions made for Ubuntu needs, duh.

But I get your point if you dare to develop a solution outside of Red Hat system ecosystem you will get fucked, Because Linux, just like Windows it is owned by one company. I am pretty sure that would encourage all those young developer who want to contribute to open source projects.


>GNOME won because, even with its warts, it's the only usable UI that's not a pile of shit that requires ricing to even sorta look okay.

GNOME is a pile shit, even now more people are using Unity than GNOME, it hasn't won anything except making people flee to Windows.

>>59831182
Meanwhile, I can grab a random-ass .deb installer and it'll work on most versions of Linux that ever were relevant.

You are cancer.

>>59831182
literally nothing is stopping people from making .exe installers for linux either actually

>>59829999
Well, they are all good.

Except for gnome.

>>59828478
install debian

>>59831245
Why the FUCK are applications distributed in packages anyway? I thought it would be for some shit like stopping the user from running it in case the shared libraries arent exactly the same as the ones the application has be compiled for.

>>59831111
posting here to express my contemplation for those digits.

>>59831347
well that's just one part
but third-party developers should be able to either package their own libraries and set LD_LIBRARY_PATH in a startscript or link everything statically

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>>59828802

>>59831245
Except for the community and the MUH OPEN SORES fags (that literally just wget + make + make install anyways).

Disk space is cheap, nobody cares about keeping multiple different library versions around anymore. One of the few things Windows did right.

>>59828478
I don't think so, the "community" of autists would have found another reason to argue about and go in circles.

>>59831224
>Because they were solutions made for Ubuntu needs, duh.

And nobody needed those solutions but Ubuntu, which is why the rest of the world who weren't special snowflakes settled on X/Wayland.

>>59830978
>and actually had broad buy-in.
Because RHEL pushed hard for it, and everything started to depend on it.

>GNOME won because, even with its warts, it's the only usable UI that's not a pile of shit that requires ricing to even sorta look okay.
GNOME didn't win shit, and it looks like shit. Ubuntu is only coming back to GNOME because Canonical was getting lazy.

>Wayland won
It hasn't. Not yet. People are very cautious about it.

>>59830978
sadly gnome is absolute garbage though
how the fuck do they expect computer-illiterate users to ever be able to use that thing?

>>59831525
I hope wayland wins. It looks like a much better choice.

>>59830978
Red Hat initially used and supported Upstart FYI. Systemd not only was better as an init daemon but it also covered more of the system so it's what they went with.

>>59829999
>Mir is bad, but Wayland is good?
Mir was announced a year after wayland had its first release. Wayland had been in the works for 4 years before that. Canonical invented some bullshit reason for needing another display server and tried to force it down everyone's throats. The whole thing was fucking retarded. Mir and Wayland aren't even directly comparable. Mir is like they created an entire other X. Wayland only covers a small portion of the functionality of Mir. Wayland is like a decentralized X while Mir is centralized. Mir gives Canonical the complete control over the Mir protocol standard so it's terrible for user choice.

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FUCK YOU RACIST AMERICAN ASSHOLES

YOU'RE JUST JEALOUS THAT AN AFRICAN MAN MARRIED TO A STRONG BLACK WOMAN MADE A BETTER OS THAN YOU

YOU WANT TO DESTROY EVERYTHING THAT'S NOT AMERICAN

FUCK YOU ALL TO HELL!!!!!!!!

>>59829928
Seconding this. Kinda curious

>>59831647
It also looks like a much bigger pain in the ass to use.

>>59829928
Seconding this. Kinda curious

>>59829928
Seconding this. Kinda curious

>>59829999
>What happened to Linux being about choice you hypocritical asshole?
That's a lie perpetrated by dumbass fanboys to attract stupid people to it for god knows what reason

Linux was never about choice

>>59831444
>Disk space is cheap
RAM is also cheap, why aren't you using 512GB RAM? Get with the times and stop complaining about bloat, luddite.

>>59828667
it actually tries to be usable

>>59829928
Seconding this. Kinda curious

>>59831670
Seconding this. Kinda curious

>>59828730
The best wiki belongs to Gentoo, you knob.

>>59828478
SimplyMEPIS was the GOAT. Easy install before Ubuntu. One click install of drivers before ubuntu. Everything before Ubuntu. Pro-level tools built in. 1 click samba. God, I miss that lean little Debian KDE puppy.

>>59828667
when it started it was just a pretty average distro that was more usable, polished and ready-to-go requiring less configuring and knowledge of linux.

unity was a monumental fuckup. their version of GNOME was pretty nice but it wasnt polished to the point of perfection. if they couldnt even do that it seems futile to me to try and create an entire shell, display server etc. the whole convergence / ubuntu on phone and tablet was a pipedream as well.

they shoulda just stuck with ubuntu gnome as it was in the beginning and make apps for mobile that give you some added functionality for your desktop install. maybe something like handoff on OSX for android, if that's possible. idk, anything, just a little app as a marketing gadget maybe, a whole new OS was never gonna work.

shame they're switching to gnome 3 rather than something like mate. can't stand it.

>>59828478
>thinking that desktop adoption of an OS has something to do with anything other than video games
on average the household gamer is the "computer wiz" who fixed problems. this is because hes the one that has to figure stuff out on his own when a certain game wont run

microsoft knew this in the 90's, thats why they created directx and thats why most home pcs are windows

father gaben knows this, but hes fighting an uphill battle

once you understand this fact youll have a better understanding of how to help people adopt linux

>>59828667
It's Debian that pretends to have a company backing it like Red Hat. Debian is a great Linux, and used to be vastly superior to anything coming out of the Red Hat camp.

Unfortunately, Canonical has completely screwed the pooch on their stewardship of...pretty much everything, really. Anything they've done on their own they've botch, from Unity, to Upstart, to Mir, to Snap, to their stupid fucking phone stuff, the list goes on. Stuff coming out of Red Hat actually matters because they have their shit together and make mad bank off of enterprise, the same sorts of people who hire Linux people in droves.

You want to know why systemd and Wayland are everywhere except in hobbyist distros? Because Red Hat actually has clout. On the other hand, I guarantee you that the most recent round of Canonical layoffs won't be the last.

>>59831656
FUCK DRUMPF AND FUCK WHITE PEOPLE

And Miguel de Icaza is far more responsible for 20 years KDE/Gonme split

>>59830978
>upstart hjad no adoption outside of ubuntu
Fedora used upstart for some time

>>59830978
>wayland won
Wayland still hasn't won anything.
I better prefeer a integrated solution if that means that ubuntu become more than a GNU/Linux distro and more like the product that Canonical wants rather than being RHEL variant number 214324928349820934
It's not like that the linux panorama is different. All distro are somewhat incompatible one with others.

>>59835460
Why?

Gnome won.

>>59831656
>>59835133
WE

>>59828478

Unity was the bigger problem. Canonical should have completely ignored tablets and phones and focused on making Ubuntu the single best desktop OS of all time. If the past five years of development had been focused on that they would be beating Windows 10 now.

>>59835624
You would be bitching because Canonical broken all compatibility with other linux distros.

>>59828648
I was born in 98

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I was unironically looking forward to the Ubuntu phone

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>>59828478
>desktop linux

>>59834644
this distro was what started me on gnu
accidentally removed windows in a time before i had access to the internet

>>59828478
Is it so wrong to ask if Mark can be the boss of just a few things? Red Hat has to decide everything? Hating africans is racism you know..

>>59831656
le bait

>>59835884
Same. I just waited for the devices to become available again.

>>59832059
That joke is making a false analogy argument because RAM is expensive. 500gb or RAM costs much more than 500gb of HDD or even SDD space.

>>59831182
You realize you can just download a .sh file which is basically equivalent of an .exe file? That's exactly how some software, for example games from GOG, are distributed. And those will successfully install on every distribution. Problem is they don't usually check if you have necessary dependencies to run the installed software.

>>59830978
>fragmentation
FYI that's a stupid buzzword that Apple invented to describe the Android user base using several different versions at a given time.

Then people in the tech world absorbed the buzzword and started using it to describe the conundrum of having different choices. Choices are hard!

>There are too many Linux distros. Linux suffers from fragmentation!

People in tech did the same thing with "ecosystem". Apple uses that word to describe their tightly controlled App store library and "ecosystem" makes that sound like a good thing.

>Oh don't you want to preserve this lovely *ecosystem*? We make sure that evil unapproved software can't be installed on your hardware.

It's fucking cancer and tech people are just lapping the shit up.

>>59828478
Not that it matters.

>>59837263
>FYI that's a stupid buzzword that Apple invented to describe the Android user base using several different versions at a given time.
Not so much that as having so many models that were sold with a back-level Android and were never going to be upgraded because the maker didn't care.
Even so-called "top of the line" models. No upgrades were planned, ever.
From a developer's point of view it's very depressing. Maybe half of your potential customers will never be able to use your product. Add that to having to support a half-dozen different releases just to cover the "current" models.

>>59837263
You're an idiot. Fragmentation is bad. It's not because choices are hard; it's because it is extremely inefficient and lowers interchangeability.

>>59828667
It works

>>59828648

kek, underrated

>>59828667
Familiarity, comfort.

>>59828667
Good fonts and font rendering out of the box

>>59829747
>But now i think many members of the free software community are just deeply anti-social types who love to hate on whatever is mainstream
He could have learned this easily spending 5 minutes on /g/

>>59828648
Kek'd

>>59828478
No surprise there... his ego got the better of him. He may have had some good visions but he had no leadership capabilities to bring them to fruition.

>>59837399
But it's not a problem on linux. You maybe have 10 different "base" distros and since almost everything is debian based you really won't have comparability issues.

>>59828667
I work for a construction company that builds huge mansions for the wealthy. Payroll became a nightmare for 40+ employees. All 10+ foremans needed to get online to submit hours so I got them cheap ultrabooks to work on. None of these guys ever touched a computer before.
>Within a month half had ransomware and missing NTLDR errors.
>Install Ubuntu as it's a free upgrade.
>It's been years and they all still work.
>Ubuntu is ID10T proof I guess

>>59828667
It's just Debian without the freetardation. Normies like me use it for this reason. This is more true than ever now that it is back to GNOME.

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>>59828667
>install ubuntu
>run ubuntu fresh install machine learning setup script
>works on literally any ubuntu 16.04 install

>install arch
>need to carefully disect ubuntu install script and figure out what it all does so I can ensure I'm replicating it correctly
>5 minutes of work turned into 5 hours

I really really fucking really want another good OS, but ubuntu is the only one that I can confidently carry with me knowing I can install and setup everything I need to work on any system whenever. Lose my files? no problem, easy to restart. etc etc.

>>59838426
On the other hand, look at the DEs. GNOME is garbage that spawned a shitload of smaller underdeveloped forks, KDE is a buggy mess, Unity is dead, XFCE's development pace is a joke. Everything else is used 1.5 ricers.

>>59838426
Getting Bomi to run on newer versions of Ubuntu or Mint is a total pain in the ass because of that shit. It's even worse as you move away from Debian based stuff.

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>>59829615
>linux desktop

I’d just like to interject for a moment. What you’re refering to as Linux, is in fact, GNU/LInux, or as I’ve recently taken to calling it, GNU plus Linux. Linux is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning GNU system made useful by the GNU corelibs, shell utilities and vital system components comprising a full OS as defined by POSIX. Many computer users run a modified version of the GNU system every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of GNU which is widely used today is often called “Linux”, and many of its users are not aware that it is basically the GNU system, developed by the GNU Project. There really is a Linux, and these people are using it, but it is just a part of the system they use. Linux is the kernel: the program in the system that allocates the machine’s resources to the other programs that you run. The kernel is an essential part of an operating system, but useless by itself; it can only function in the context of a complete operating system. Linux is normally used in combination with the GNU operating system: the whole system is basically GNU with Linux added, or GNU/Linux. All the so-called “Linux” distributions are really distributions of GNU/Linux

>>59828478
He clearly didn't because GNOME is still just as shit as in 2011.

>>59829571
He's NOT an 'astronaut'. He got into space because he's a multi-millionare and he paid the fare.
It was nothing more than a rich cunt's ego trip.

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>>59829747
When the core user base of GNU/Linux looks like this, do you really expect anything less hatred towards anything popular that tries to innovate?

>>59828692
>>59829928
Here is a talk about wayland and xorg.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIctzAQOe44

The problem with Ubuntu is that they complain about the "community" when in fact, they never contribute to anything (that is the kernel, or other open source projects) and prefer creating their own stuff which often leads to fragmentation.


The good thing with linux is the choice but choice creates fragmentation which is bad and slow everything. BUT, sometimes, it's good to create this fragmentation

We got X server, which is shit and need to be replaced.
Wayland development starts, everybody agree about using it.
Canonical starts mir for no fucking good reason, claims that wayland doesn't have functionalities that canonical needs and start spreading FUD.
Question : Wayland fitted the needs of Canonical, but even if it didn't, why not contribute to it and add what they needed ?

Why use bazar or whatever when everyone in the world are using git ?

They never did anything correctly and complain. Fuck this shit

>>59828478
No? Gnome can use Wayland

Wayland security is a joke though and there's no portable tools like xbindkeys allowed

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>>59838799

>>59840338
>Wayland security is a joke though
Citation required.

>>59838499
GNOME is actually good.

>>59840348
>citation required
See >>59840338
>Wayland security is a joke though
I can confirm that the anon is a security expert and knows what he's talking about. Read the code if you don't believe :^)

>>59828478
Ubuntu phone was a good idea. Just poorly executed. A true linux mobile experience would of been a good alternative to android. But they had to fuck it up.

>>59828648
Lmao

>>59828478
>for no fucking reason
There was a reason. We still don't know it but surely it has to do with potential profit.

>>59828478
When you have money and you're making a free product, you don't have to care, necessarily.

>>59828667
it isnt autistic

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>>59838799
>GahNU/Loonix
>GPL

Gay Porn Linux

>>59828802
>Competent people don't need tutorials, only manuals.
Yeah, that's bullshit. I don't believe for one second that you've never gotten help from a wiki or support channel for recommended software configurations or advice. Some software is easier to understand with a little bit of example usage. There are often many configurations depending on the sofware.