Classic environments

>>59816967

Classic environments were clean and not overly-designed.

Maybe they weren't as aesthetically pleasing but who gives a fuck. They made sense. That's all I look for in an environment.

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no guys, the future is good

you're all just a bunch of dinosaurs

>>59817043
Who literally cares, that's not the point.

>>59817025
This. Could almost just </thread> here.

What made them work so well on so little?

I mean outside of the usual answers like "less bloat" and "they wrote in assembly/C". How are the graphics drawn that makes them so efficient in terms of system resources? I know that bitmap fonts are far better than truetype for resources but what about things like windows?

One thing that does always strike me about them is how efficient they are in terms of screen-space usage. For all the fuss made about "screen real estate" they had it nailed back then.

>>59817043
>use free insider edition
>surprised it has ads for a service from the company whose OS you're using for free
>No sign of this anywhere in the creator's update official release

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>>59817025
Seconding

>>59817113
actually this shows up in the fully paid Pro edition you worthless disinfo shill

>>59816967
Funny enough if you disable Aero Windows 7 isn't that different from Windows2000

>>59816967
We liked consistent look and feel. Win 95 or 98 might have been the height of it on the Windows side. Mac OS seems to do well even today.

Modern Linux distros are better at this than the shitfest that is Windows 10. Someone post that picture of the 3 or 4 different types of context menu formatting and multiple control panels for the same thing. Keep in mind that's all first-party shit!

>>59817165
Yes, it's good.

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I actually used my big brothers Amiga 1200 through the later part of secondary school and college back in late-90s/early-00s. It amazed me how capable it still was and I bet that, if you could still use it as a productive work horse even now.

I think that's what I like about classic environments: they aged better than those who want your money want you to think they have.

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>>59816967
Honestly, they're just more simple. They're almost elegant in their simplicity despite the slight clunkiness here and there.

Honestly, I don't think there's anything I particularly dislike about modern systems, I just miss the simple days of using the computer for the sake of it, rather than them being "I want to get online and shitpost" machines.

>>59817439
Sure, Amigas are still pretty capable of doing some stuff. You can do some very basic browsing (no SSL for the most part though), and IRC and FTP work just fine. Plenty of text editors and other productivity software. It kind of depends on what you want to do, but a lot of basic things aren't a problem.

Then again, a decent Amiga these days costs you about as much as decent new PC, so whether it's worth it is another question.

>>59817130
That looks like an overdesigned abortion kys

>>59816967
Things I liked:
>simplicity

Things I'd fix:
>color depth
>font rendering
>get rid of desktop icons
>up the resolution

>>59817702
>wall of text
>some autistic spergout about Amigas
>can't adapt to new things or just plain edgy autistic vaporware bandwagon teenager
>furry
What a waste of life.

>>59817702
>I just miss the simple days of using the computer for the sake of it, rather than them being "I want to get online and shitpost" machines

One thing I have noticed is that modern computers are, and this sounds weird to say and I hope my meaning comes across, bad at being offline.

>>59817826
Font rendering is fine. Bitmap font are scientifically the best fonts for appearance since they're pixel-erfect.

>>59817854
>pixel perfect != good
They are typographically terrible. A good typeface is designed to have a nice even look by balancing many things including positive/negative space, curved/straight lines, etc... These bitmap fonts are sorely limited in that respect. Moreover you can't even scale bitmap fonts.

Modern font rendering uses techniques such as subpixel rendering and optical tricks to create fonts that are legible and comfortable to read at any size.

subpixel perfect > pixel perfect

>>59816967
information at a glance
things weren't hidden behind an additional 5 clicks just so there was more white space

>>59817702
Well, this was (as I said) in the late 90s and early 00s that I did this, where computers were still pretty rare (or rather, a "personal" computer was, there were increasing numbers of family computers), and here in the UK there were still Amiga games and magazines being made as I got it from my brother.

Of course what I was using it for then could now be done from any old computer, but that wasn't quite so at the time.

>>59817903
>typography

That's why god invented the print-preview.

>create fonts that are legible and comfortable to read at any size.

That's not true. I have a 1024x768 screen on this laptop and some fonts look disgusting. I use terminus as a main font simply for this alone.

I like the isometric pixel art icons. I wish BeOS didn't die the way it did but there was no chance competing with Microsoft. The only way it could have survived is if it were FOSS.

>>59817973
How about Haiku?

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>>59816967
Classic environments were more humane and friendly. Icons meant something, they were informative and artful at the same time. Color-schemes felt warm, comfortable and professional. There was also a sense of adventure and excitement.

See for instance this picture: this computer is happy and smiling; this computer have a soul.

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Am I a try hard ?

Last thread an anon posted some win95 files, I'm trying to reproduce that kind of look. Meh start.

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Even something that "should be" boring in principle like Microsoft Money was somehow made cool and fun.

>>59818073
That computer is having a great day.

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OP you forgot the father of all 90s "grey windows and chiseled widgets" desktop GUI designs.

>>59817702
>rather than them being "I want to get online and shitpost" machines

I know that feel. It's nearly all I use this machine for now...Could almost just use it for the web and have an "offline machine" that's different.

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>>59818073
Happy Mac lives on in the Finder icon.

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>>59817844
>he doesn't know Amigas were the furfag computer of choice in the 90s

>>59818412
I don't think it has anything to do with furfags, it was an artist thing.

>>59818412
I actually felt strangely hollow when I heard Sabrina Online ended.

So many things about it date it in such subtle ways. Like when Sabrina is looking for ISPs at a convention.

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>>59818476
>serial ports

>>59818111
change "combine taskbar icons" to "never combine" and change the start menu button and you'll be golden desu

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Never going to be released.

Never.

Never ever.

>>59818262
>tfw you'll never open the box to a brand new nextstation color
why live?

>>59818769
>you will never open a new ibm at and smell a new model m

That video made me really jelly.

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>>59817043
My first pc was a windows 95 and i loved it. The start up intro theme music was tight and the 'its now safe to turn off your computer' made it feel yours.

So up your with your dinosaur crap

>>59817957
>print-preview
You are literally retarded or don't understand what typography or typesetting are.

>some fonts look disgusting.
That's because you have shit-tier font rendering thats probably misconfigured if configured at all.

>>59818896
>don't understand what typography or typesetting are.

Isn't that the thing they do when the set the type when printing? If only there was some sort of digital preview of such a practise...

Just create fonts by the pixel and keep to a grid. It's a fucking computer.

>That's because you have shit-tier font rendering thats probably misconfigured if configured at all.

No, what looks great for one font will look terrible for another, and since every single program wants to do its own thing you end up with a crisp menu but crappy content.

Besides, this all misses the point that this is an issue that never used to exist.

>>59817080
>but what about things like windows?
Well, it's not hard to draw a rectangle, let alone a couple of rectangles.
The problem is modern UI extensively use GPU for their drawing.
Look at Enlightment, it's beautiful, and yet it uses much less resources than many other WMs/DEs.

>>59819020
>Isn't that the thing they do when the set the type when printing?
No, retard. You are confounding a huge number of things. Typesetting is the study of how to compose text on a page so that it can be read and understood clearly. Print preview is useful for typesetting but it is just one of the many concerns that typesetters have (e.g. everything on the printer configuration side of things). Typography on the other hand is the study of typefaces -- different components of typefaces, how to classify them, how to arrange and use them, etc... In typography there's a bunch of theory about how to make a block of text easy to read with minimal eyestrain (stuff like not having your lines be too long, not having the space between lines be too small or too large, etc...). One of the many things that typographers talk about is having a balance of negative and positive space in your text, otherwise some letters will appear too bold or too thin and they'll draw the reader's attention. Other things that are important are having a consistent looking typeface (e.g. either smooth curves everywhere or flattened curves everywhere). These things are severely limited by having only rasterized (bitmap) fonts. In short, you are literally retarded if you think print-preview has anything to do with typography.

>No, what looks great for one font will look terrible for another
Educate yourself, son. Techniques like Subpixel rendering effectively increase the resolution of your display for fonts.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subpixel_rendering
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Font_hinting
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Font_rasterization
>and since every single program wants to do its own thing you end up with a crisp menu but crappy content.
Modern operating systems use a single font rendering engine for the entire system. The only thing that varies are the fonts chosen.

>>59818412
This was all just pushed literally by one furfag who made decent animated demo videos.

There were ads for his shit in ever amiga magazine.

>>59817043
I haven't use windows since 1999.
I have no idea what I'm looking at.

>>59818262
shame all the GNU replacements suck ass

literally the only good part is windowmaker

>>59820318
GNU mentality/methodology just differs too greatly from that of old NeXTies and BSDers.

The entire environment of NeXTSTEP (and modern macOS, by extension) is highly and consistently opinionated through and through. There's a "right way" to do practically everything, and if you write software for that platform you'll be shunned if you don't roll these conventions into your software. This is annoying sometimes but in reality it simplifies development and lets the dev focus on what's important.

Compare this to GNU/Linux where there's 500 ways to do everything and if anybody asserts that any particular one is right, he'll have his figurative head lopped off by the rest of the community. This makes it much more difficult to create a consistent desktop experience since one has to burn useful energy making the DE work with every distribution and configuration known to man. The DE's core features and experience don't get anywhere near the level of attention they deserve.

>>59820484
yeah, i wish GNUstep was a decent replacement

GWorkspace is so buggy

>tfw regularly using windows 98
comfy as fuck

>>59816967
UI nowadays is minimalist for the sake of minimalism making function a secondary priority. Everything is overly spaced, there is far too much negative space, things that shouldn't be oversized are. It feels like they've tried to mold the UI to the human, but in doing so did the opposite.

>>59816967
They're machine-like, simple and professional. They strike a good balance between the limitless potential of the virtual space while still feeling grounded in physical ideas, and you just feel more serious about what you're doing when you use them.

There is of course some nostalgia involved, motif interfaces like CDE for example bring me back to a tour I (relatively recently) took of a semiconductor fab in high school that was lined with Ultra 30s running trashy looking home grown Java applications controlling test equipment. I enjoy that.

>What do you not like in modern imitation? What would you want to correct?
They mostly use the same fundamental ideas and models, so nothing really. There's something to appreciate in every stylistic age.

>>59820966
I hate how, for all their "minimalism" they end up spending about 10x the amount (in system resources) to do it.

>>59817903
Do all typography rules apply to computer programs? Screen is not like a paper leaf.

Is there anything like amiga workbench for Linux? I think FVWM with a massive config file would do, but maybe something exists more alike out of the box?

>>59822446
You still look at it with your eyes and interpret it with your brain the same way as any other text.

>>59822521
Amiwm, but really you'd be better to look at something like Icaros.

>>59817903
subpixels won't matter in a few years anyway because everyone will have a HiDPI display

regarding OP's question; I guess it's 50% nostalgia and 50% >>59817025

>>59818728
What this could have been. Such a wasted potential.

>>59817043
>wintoddlers will defend this

actually, i think windows 10 is a step in the right direction. luna and aero are horribly distracting, as is aqua. win10 is clear and functional again and i guess ms will have perfected it within the next 2 years.

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>>59817043
>ads in the file manager
>ads in the task bar
>ads in the start bar
>ads in the lock menu

just fuck my shit up

>>59818476
>So many things about it date it in such subtle ways. Like when Sabrina is looking for ISPs at a convention.
Sabrina trying to get online were some of the first ones in the series, as far as I remember. Those first few are even hosted on Aminet still since god knows when.

>>59818835
>The start up intro theme music was tight
They never quite got the vibe right with later start up themes desu.

>>59820031
>There were ads for his shit in ever amiga magazine.
I've yet to see one, but I haven't actually dug through all the ones I have.

>>59822577
AmiWM just never felt right to me. Maybe I never dug deep enough into the configs though.

>>59822446
Yes. Typography is focused on reducing eyestrain and communicating extra information through the typeface (e.g. some typefaces are perceived as conveying certain emotions).

Font rendering is all about trying to faithfully reproduce proper typography on the screen.

Here is something that's difficult to capture with 'pixel-perfect' typefaces.
https://vimeo.com/et/inge
Watch from 22:00 to 26:00. (tl;dr: balancing negative and positive space so that it looks good to the eye requires computing a bunch integrals and making them equal). You can also find colossal faggot Steve Jobs talking about typography at 16:45.

>>59822705
i have not a single ad in win10pro, but that's maybe just the power of european customer protection.

>>59822774
But why? Who cares? This is just falling into the marketspeak UX trap.

>>59816967
The only classic environment there is Finder/Mac OS, BeOS and Windows are nowhere "classic".
Wheres TOS, Workbench, GEOS?

>>59817702
>a decent Amiga these days costs you about as much as decent new PC
You think people use them or recommend them as daily drivers? Are you retarded?

>>59818412
are you retarded? It was just a autistic person who did animation on Amiga.

>>59822973
>In a world where people are spending more and more time reading information off of screens, who cares about reducing eyestrain on screens.
You are literally eating shit because tremendous marketing douchebags are telling you not to.

>>59823021
>You think people use them or recommend them as daily drivers? Are you retarded?
Read my post again and what I'm replying to very carefully. I never said anything of the sort. If you really desperately want to use an Amiga for daily work then maybe you can get away with it if you're so desperate.

My point was that although it's possible, there really is no argument for them being cheap and plentiful for someone without any fucking money to pick up and use as a desperate daily driver.

>>59823067
Then why bring price up? It's a niche for retro enthusiasts and nothing else.
Nobody is talking about daily use.

>>59823037
Reading from the surface of a light bulb will cause strain no matter what. If you want to reduce eyestrain print it out.

>>59823067
I'd argue that they could be used as a daily driver if you emulated it. I'm pretty sure the newer SoCs can emulate them pretty well now if you drop the screen res a bit. I emulated DOSBox quite well on a Pi 1 by dropping it down to 640x480.

That's pretty much the only way to make those devices useful for anything outside of novelty.

>>59823116
LED screen
>light reflects off of a white surface and shines through a screen before reaching the viewers eyes.

Paper
>Light reflects off of a sheet of paper and reaches the viewers eyes

How embarrassing for you

>>59823129
Well, perhaps. Browsers are lacking though, so unless you're okay with very light web use, it might get annoying really fast.

>>59823459
>Browsers are lacking though

It's not a bug; it's a feature.

>>59823466
More of a lack of features, supported by amiga nerds that keep shouting they want updates without considering touching an assembler/compiler themselves.

>>59823493
Staying away from the cancerous modern web is easily a feature.

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what is it that makes a retro ui look good, ,if we can boil it down to the essentials it will be so much easier to capture the magic in modern ui

someone write an alysis

>>59823514
define "modern web". Not even 4chan renders correctly on iBrowse. Literally the only site that works the way it should is Aminet, which you'd fucking hope since it's the primary software repo.

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>tfw you just can't see yourself using something else than your custom windows classic theme

I am so happy but proportionally worried.

>>59817439
>>59817702
Amiga rules... forever.

Just received my Vampire 500 v2+

>>59818134
gnucash

>>59818728
Beta1, soon.

Besides a load of years of improvements, it'll have the new package manager, fully functional, including whole-system upgrades.

protip: Use nightly builds. Alpha4 is ancient.

>>59822521
amiwm, but due to its license, it's hopeless.

There's always AROS, the AmigaOS reimplementation as free software.

Systems like dragonfly bsd, haiku, genode and fuchsia inherit some good Amiga ideas.

Linux is just hopeless. Least sucking option for now, but hopeless.

>>59823863
>Just received my Vampire 500 v2+
get the fuck out with your fantasy FPGA shit.

>>59823929
>get the fuck out with your fantasy FPGA shit.
Haters gonna hate.

I personally think it's just buyer's remorse... these shitty ACAs aren't worth their volume in water.

>>59823021
The amount to which the fanbase jerks off to them certainly suggests that.

They're the mactards of retrocomputing.

>>59823954
I bought my ACA620 before the Vampire was even a thing. No regrets. I'll gladly take an actual 020 over something that turns the A600 into a glorified keyboard for a purposefully half-assed FPGA clone of an Amiga.

Still no FPU because they seem to be too busy implementing fantasy shit that most likely nobody can be arsed to develop for.

I won't deny that it's an interesting piece of kit potentially, but with the price, waiting list and empty "maybe in the future" promises for actual useful features, it's just not as appealing when you already have an A600/020 and A4000/060/RTG at your disposal.

>>59823929
The main advantage of things like that is that they can use modern interfaces, like SD cards.

>>59824046
I'm pretty sure you could do that pretty easily already, there's SD adapters for fucking everything now.

>>59824175
Yeah, but in one device you get HDMI, an increase in memory and CPU speed, as well as a replacement for aging IDE drives/CF cards and slowly rotting floppies.

>>59824008
>it's just not as appealing when you already have an A600/020 and A4000/060/RTG at your disposal.
Sure, but I had neither of these things. Just some plain A500s and an A1200 with a bliz 1230mkIV.

> I'll gladly take an actual 020 over something that turns the A600 into a glorified keyboard
It seriously is just an FPGA implementation of a very fast 68k clone, and a shitload of ram. Everything else is optional; You're not forced to actually use any of it.

On the A500, it provides IDE which I wouldn't otherwise have and do welcome. It *will* also solve the A500 network problem by providing wireless once drivers for that are written. The RTG is also anything but unwelcome.

>Still no FPU because they seem to be too busy implementing fantasy shit that most likely nobody can be arsed to develop for.
Can't really blame them for having fun, or set their priorities. I'd rather appreciate if they put some effort into FPU and MMU support, but I'm glad the vampire is a thing at all to begin with.

>>59823983
They have a hobby, what's your excuse? They don't actually use them for work, but for wasting time and playing games.

>>59824008
>Still no FPU because they seem to be too busy implementing fantasy shit that most likely nobody can be arsed to develop for.
What? Things get actively ported to use the new instructions all the time. Stop living under a rock.

>>59823929
>>59824008
You just seem butthurt because they have something cool while you stay 100% pure. It's a expensive hobby, I have shitloads of Amigas, some with 68k chips or accelerators, some with PPC accelerators, a few with Vampires. They all rock.

>>59824008
>I bought my ACA620 before the Vampire was even a thing.
Retard, should have gotten a Furia

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>>59816967
Unity because Unity is now kill when 18.04 comes out.

>>59824008
The wannabe Amiga fags are the best.
You will never be as cool as us, piss off pleb.

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>>59817130

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>>59816967
>What did we like in classic environments?
>What do you not like in modern imitation? What would you want to correct?
LOL @ Paul thurrott. Double good m8

>>59824676
>amigashit
>cool
You're all a bunch of faggots arguing over ugly literal Toys R Us trash nobody took seriously even when it was new

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>>59818029
Shit, I'd never heard of this before. Reading about it now. Looks pretty good.

Why isn't it more well-known?

>>59824856
It hasn't got a release for 15 years.

>>59824904
Aren't you thinking of BeOS itself?
This is a copy, the last full version came 4 years ago and there are more recent nightly builds.

>>59824961
>Aren't you thinking of BeOS itself?
I am thinking of Haiku.
>the last full version
Alphas aren't full versions.
I meant a version 1.0.

>>59825032
Sorry, I just started reading about it so I must've read wrong. But apparently they are still working on it, right? There's stuff from two days ago on the repo.

>>59816967
Muh notifications and battery monitors. Everything else is great.

>>59824904
Also it's intended for 32bit machines, making it about 10 years out of date.

Even Linux is dropping 32bit now, little by little.

>>59825069
>But apparently they are still working on it, right?
Yeah, they do, but the hype is long gone.

>>59825073
Notifications always seemed pointless to me. I know the volume has gone down, I was the one who pushed the button.

>>59825069
Yes, they still are working on it, but they severily suffer of lack of man power.
Definitively they will be greatly benefited if
1) HP or whatever the owner of the code copyright open source BeOS 5
2) Convince at least the 0.5% of the wannabe linux hackers to get working in haiku instead.
Linux, in my opinion, has hurt lots of open source projects, because everyone wants to pamper that shitty kernel.

>>59824856
>>59824904
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Haiku-Mesa-17-And-More

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>>59818337
The new one looks like the smug face of a 6 year old who just kicked you in the balls. He's not entirely sure why it's so funny, he only knows that he finds a deep satisfaction in watching you curl up and hit the floor. When you get up, he'll kick you again.

>>59825107
>1) HP or whatever the owner of the code copyright open source BeOS 5
Wouldn't really benefit Haiku at this point. They've long gone way past what BeOS achieved.

They're preparing for beta1 release, which is a major upgrade considering how long it's been since alpha4. With the new build infrastructure and the package manager, it's a different beast altogether.

>>59825107
I agree on Linux being the be-all-end-all of open source OSs has hurt what could be a great and interesting "counter-culture" in computing.

>>59825157
Yeah, but too little too late. I don't really "get" what it's for, if you know what I mean?

>>59825078
The devs are too ambitious I think. They want to preserve binary compatibility with original BeOS software but BeOS didn't have much software of its own anyway. Compatibility hacks are probably part of the reason its taking so long.

>>59824769
Kek, underage.

>>59825188
Yeah, it's not like with (Ic)aros where there's a major demand for compatibility with Amiga software (of which there was mountains, especially in the UK and Europe), I can't even name a single well-known program on BeOS.

>>59825139
wow
you are fucked up

>>59825177
You're free to not use it :-)

There's people out there (definitely including Haiku devs) who haven't given up yet. We can have systems that suck less.

>>59825177
I don't know also why we should to know how the outer space it's made.

>>59825170
This.
Linux isn't counter culture anymore. It's the norm and everyone develops for it.

>>59825216
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_BeOS_programs

Probably a non-exhaustive list but it looks like most of its well-known software was already portable to begin with.

>>59818896
>>some fonts look disgusting.
>That's because you have shit-tier font rendering thats probably misconfigured if configured at all.
So taste is a matter of configuration? Good to know.

Semi bold courier > 15 pt looks good to me, any less looks terrible.

And now I know this is a matter of configuration. Who'd thunk it?

>>59825284
It never was counter culture, it was controlled opposition.

>>59825284
The thing is a "counter culture" OS would probably be "intentionally" limited, not so much due to hipsterism but more to avoid the main channels.

>>59816967
Wait, do you think those are good desktop environments? If you only consider window styles, taskbar yes they're good. But control panels and file managers are just poorly organized.

The big deal with modern environments is that they're not really made for computer enthusiasts anymore. When you simplify everything you lose some of the options.

>>59825833
>The big deal with modern environments is that they're not really made for computer enthusiasts anymore
I am sure that in late 90s companies already didn't make environments for computer enthusiasts.

>>59818111
How did you do this? can I get a rundown

Looks 10/10 well done

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Pic related is best DE off all time

>>59826586
By then all the "enthusiast" platforms had died.

>>59826774
That's a fucking windows screenshot...

What is the use for floating windows in case of direct root window siblings ? Why do I need to hide a window with another when I have tiling and virtually infinite workspaces ? Serious question, I can't find an answer.

>>59816967
Why was everything so comfy back in the day?

>>59828878
Elaborate? What do you mean?

>>59829978
I mean, there is no usage to the ability to overlap main windows of programs when you have multiple virtual workspaces. Because :
- either you want a program full screen, then you put it in fullscreen mode on its own workspace,
- either you want to look a two or more programs at the same time. Then you just tile the windows and resize them as you wish.

The only purpose of having floating (and thus, overlapping) windows is for child windows of a program, like the toolbox of gimp or modal windows.

I'm personally using a tiling window manager, so I do have what I want, but I can't find the reason why they developped floating windows in the first place, excepted if the concept of workspaces was not invented.

>>59830265
> but I can't find the reason why they developped floating windows in the first place
Resolution was a lot smaller back then.

>>59830366
That makes sense. Thanks.

>>59830366
But weren't most programs designed to run full screen for that reason?

>>59816967
It probably looks better on low ppi screens.
A lot of modern styles look bad because they try to use curves when in practice they look like shit.
Recognizing the limits of a display is something that these environments do.

>>59817080
Remember:

Making icons is a lost art
Now, you might be thinking: "what does this sentence have to do with what i said"
The same thing applies for everything on old computers: back then you had, at worst, 2 colors, up to 256, with a display size that. if you got lucky, got as big as 800x600
Now, computers that time were painfully slow compared to what we have today, but the developers knew they had limitations, and they managed to create aesthetically pleasing graphical environments which, even today, stand the test of time.
With a size of 800x600 you can't afford wasting ANY of the screen estate, so you have tiny borders which still do what they're supposed to: divide the window from the background, with 256 colors you can't afford wasting a fucking palette on a single icon, and you can't put too many colors on a single frame or the video composer might not like that and avoids placing the colors.

tl;dr: the requirements were very tight, yet developers managed to work around limitations.

>>59824761
waaaait a minute i almost got deceived by the thumbnail
Mind sharing the theme?

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>>59816967
>tfw no IDROS

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>>59831029
Gotta post this too.

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>>59831062
Pootos?

>>59831096
It's unfortunately nothing more than a mockup.
http://androidarts.com/

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>>59831029
;)

>>59831127
Fuck. It looks comfy.

>>59828878
>>59830265
>- either you want a program full screen, then you put it in fullscreen mode on its own workspace,
>- either you want to look a two or more programs at the same time. Then you just tile the windows and resize them as you wish.
Stacking WMs are easier to use and more intuitive, and virtually every single stacking WM today has built-in tiling functionality as well. Also, your analysis is based on your lack of imagination of how people use a graphical interface. There are certainly situations where people may want overlapping windows for various reasons.

>>59831137
Gonna need tons of specially made icons though, and a modern DE that properly handles raster based icons.

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>>59831159
Yeah, I didn't bother with GTK or icons. That's as far as I got

>>59830778
you're overestimating the capabilities, most classical interfaces were geared for 640x480x16, others like the Macintosh and most Unix environments for 1-bit bitmapped displays

>>59831208
I'd like to see a new toy-OS that purposely puts in such stringent demands.

>>59831062
>>59831029
>>59831127
I agree with what this guy says. There is a distinct lack of character in modern computers.

>>59831365
This needs to exist, the OS equivalent of Pico-8

>>59831365
I'd like for low-bit screens to make a comeback.

It's annoying that now we have the tech to make these PDAs actually useful we've stopped making them.

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>>59833308
Forgot image.

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>>59831365
I don't even find monochrome that displeasurable, though in interest of fairness it would probably be kinder to give them a slightly larger palette...

But only 4 colors on the screen at once. devilsh.png

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>>59817130
Love this.

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>>59830909
not that guy but just pick the colors yourself
its not a custom theme or anything, just teal + orange with thick borders
i did it and added some windows 2k icons
if i felt like wasting more time on this id go figure out how to change the start button icon but to be honest i cant be assed

>>59834677
Used CDE for a bit (recently), was incredibly difficult to use as-is.
It's sexy as hell though, I wish it would be updated

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>>59817043
>1TB(1000GB)

>>59836157
That correct, look it up.

Windows reports drive sizes in a retarded way.

>>59836161
I know the SI prefixs exist, but I don't agree with their use. It misrepresents the

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Classic environments are great because they were simple and had a lot of character. Everyone was rushing to emulate the look and feel of Windows 95 not long after it came out, both in simple programs like QBASIC or MegaZeux, but also in independent operating systems altogether. Curious developers were really seeing what they could accomplish with what they had and experimented with ideas, seeing where desktop computing would go next. These environments existed somewhere in between the eras of the demoscene and multimedia applications.

There was optimism and excitement around computing around this time. You can see examples of it all over this thread. This liveliness is lost now as people rush to make cookie cutter apps to try to turn a buck. Modern machines are stylish and much more functional now, but somehow, fun is not allowed anymore.

>>59816967
Just how small a space they occupy on screen Nowadays the mainstream environments all try to be big and fat, wasting screen real estate

>>59836246
...the what?

>>59817130
what's that?

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>>59816967
>I actually like Windows NT 4.0 and Windows 2000
Who /oddball Windows/ here?

>>59836818
NT4 was - and still is - a pain in the ass to set up networking with, since it can only be done once.
I still have a Travelmate with 2000, used it from time to time for it's full size parallel port

>>59836818
Like it too anon. After Win2k everything went downhill. At least XP and 7 had classic available.

>>59831159
There's like no modern DE that supports the dual-state icon style used by AmigaOS.

>>59834805
I really like your desktop anon

>>59834677
how do i make ubuntu look like this

>>59836773
IRIX.

>>59836818
I use NT4 more than any other old Winshit version because all the stuff I like is from that era.
>>59836891
It's only ever been annoying for me on laptops since it shits itself with PC card controllers, on desktops it's fine, installing the drivers is just a little annoying.

>>59837564
>Install NT4 in KVM because why not
>Networking
>setup cannot see my card correctly and assumes i don't have one
>alright, i'll install it later
>later comes
>control panel has no such thing
>tfw had to reinstall NT4 on a qemu disk on my phone with the correct cards
Thanks NT!

>>59817043
>"Hurr durr! Stop having nostalgia! Durr!!!"

>>59824761
>>59834805
I love repeating wallpapers like these.

>>59837599
Makes you appreciate PnP and the device manager, doesn't it? It's a matter of tracking down the OEM installer most of the time and hoping it works, 99% of the time it does. It's just annoying.

>>59837634
>replying to the shittiest bait on /g/

>>59833472
Would use on a monochrome netbook.

>>59818134
Whose mixtape is this

>>59838078
I want an e-ink netbook. I think the patents expire this year. The only e-ink monitor released as of yet runs off USB and requires meme drivers for some fucking reason.

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>>59818769
Color was overrated anyway.

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>>59838078
>>59838161
>battery's down to 5%
>looks like I'll need to recharge next week...

One reason I'd like it is to see what kind of interesting designs and work-arounds surface to deal with the flaws of an e-ink screen.

>>59838176
Are there monochrome e-ink screens that aren-t black and white? I like that green tone.

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>>59838190
My old Kindle has a somewhat greenish-grey background/"off" colour.

>>59838204
Comfy as fuck.

>>59817043
>1 TB (1000GB)
So MS displays TB for TiB and TB for actual TB, when they want to sell shit? They must really think their users are retards.

>>59838233
What kind of people do you expect to use cloud services?

>>59838161
>The only e-ink monitor released as of yet runs off USB and requires meme drivers for some fucking reason

Blame E-ink display manufacturers. For some reason instead of using a DSI or DisplayLink or even a simple variant of parallel RGB+CLK+SYNC LVDS every other display on the market E-ink controllers use some proprietary protocol called EPD that no common SoCs support and that you can't find info on anywhere.

>>59838267
I hope that can change when the patent expires and we get more competition.

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>>59838288
Should hopefully lead to some pretty cool innovations.I just hope they don't go full retarded and totally miss the point and put massive resource-heavy components in them rather than low power alternatives.

>new e-ink laptop
>15" screen
>i7 processor
>8GB of RAM
>$5,000!

Then ask why the market wasn't receptive.

>>59838338
>i7 processor
They should use something low power like MIPS or ARM, not the massive beast that is x86.

>>59838365
I know, I was just pointing out how they'd totally screw themselves over if they don't be a little smarter than not-at-all.

>>59816967
Basically you had all the functionality of today, minus some accelerated this or that, running on much less hardware.

The programmers who made applications took more care because there wasn't near-infinite memory and storage and CPU horsepower.

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>>59817025
Same reason I love Windows Phone 7/8, and since I moved to Android, I cannot fucking recover.

Everything was clean, simple, accessible, everything looked the same, every control was natural to use, new apps were familiar from the start... since I've been on Android, I couldn't find two apps that look or function in a similar way, the base Android theme is overcomplicated and unnatural to begin with, and it's so much I nearly stopped using my phone since I switched.

I feel like recoding every single app I use. If only there was a simple way.

>>59820966
When the iphone/ipod touch came out that's what all the software tech was heading towards, style above everything else

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>>59817844
furfags and amiga go hand in hand

>>59817844
>wall of text
I agree with the rest of your arguments, but you exposed your own retardedness here.

>>59838338
Is like to see something like a chromebook with an eink screen
God danm imagine the battery life

>>59838630
Just because one autistic fuck furfag used to make animations (good ones though) on Amiga?

>>59838962
Probably the same as a laptop because they'll go full retarded and have a fully-clocked CPU and not one that's held back (along with the OS) to work at the speed of an e-ink screen.

>>59838630
yeah i dont get amiga faggots, why cant they just die?

>>59838630
Didn't that guy turn down a dream job because of his Amiga autism?

>>59816967

Great now I'm all nostalgic for my Amiga 1000.

>>59839180
>Amiga 1000
That thing was basically a prototype.

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>>59816967
Classic environments? Where?

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>>59816967
my favourite classic environment

>>59839238
>>59839294
This!

>>59816967
Can someone explain me why when screen estate was limited (10 inch TFT, 17 inch CRT), resolutions were small (SVGA, 1280x768) the window interfaces had such unnecessary thick bezels, taskbars, srollbars (NeXT, OS 9, Solaris) and skeuomorphic pictograms?

>>59839367
SVGA is 800x600, and "1280x768" isn't a thing, you're mixing together 1280x1024 (SXGA) and 1024x768 (XGA)

>>59839367
Hardware.

You don't need a huge monitor if your resolution is small.
The thick interface made it easier to use on low res CRTs. They are actually pretty slim when you bump the res up to todays standards.

>SVGA, 1280x768
retard

>>59839367
>look at me I'm 10 and think hardware has always been as fast as it's now

>>59839402
>>59839419
>our hardware is slow so let's draw unnecessary pseudo-3D skeumorphisms and bezels instead of not drawing them
neo-/g/ everyone

>>59839367
because they were nicer to look at and use
just like now, they cared more about ease of use than space efficiency

>>59839479
Modern UIs struggle with both.

>>59839479
>because they were nicer to look at
This. The flat design meme and the high dpi meme has to fucking die.

I like that what you see is what you get. They also prioritized function over aesthetics.

>>59816967
pre 2010
>skeuomorphism
>on low pixel density screens
post 2010
>minimalism
>on high pixel density screens

fucking kill me already

>>59839458
Yup, you're a kid alright.

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>>59839458
>our hardware is slow so everything has to look like shit
dunno whats neo-/g/ about that, that shit is older then 4chan

>>59839554
>ad hominem instead of proper answer
i fucking love /g/, a board where you can discuss all sorts of political issues, video games and social interactions

>>59839493
not really, we have the horses, it dosent matter if its high dpi

>>59839587
>I was only pretending to be retarded
Yup, got to love /g/.

>>59839592
It's disgusting to not be able to see the pixels though.

>>59839603
I was not pretending retarded. Answer the fucking question, nigger.
Why the fuck would you need to draw unnecessary UI items like borders and skeuomorph icons and buttons when you can draw them flat and borderless?

>>59839614
it is? I like the high performance of our screens, I think you watch too much /cyb/

>>59839630
see
>>59839479
>>59839585
stop shitposting for atention now

>>59839630
>I was not pretending retarded.
So you actually are retarded? Wew.

>>59839659
Here's your (You)

>>59817080
"Modern" GUIs are written in JavaScript and HTML. That is why they're treacle-slow.

btw, truetype fonts are easy -- just cache glyphs. Acorn Archimedes had perfect, hinted, antialiased truetype fonts in the early 90s.

>>59839666
And here's yours.

>>59836617
Sorry, I meant the

Mid 2000s style had too many gradients/shades and shiny 'glass' effects. Too much detail. The current 'flat' fashion is far too minimalist and bland looking, not enough detail. 90s style was perfect. Enough detail to avoid being bland, but not too much to be overly flashy.

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>>59817210

>>59839852
GUIs were a mistake...

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Imagine how nice it would be to use smartphones that aren't laggy and have a clear, consistent interface where each element has a clear appearance and obvious boundaries.

>>59839852
Windows is literally the digital equivalent of a cheap, mass produced product that's made in China.
And I still fucking use Win7 because I'm too lazy to learn gahnoolinucks.

>>59836161
No non-autist has ever used the word 'gibibyte'. What a fucking retarded name.

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I don't know what makes this comfy. Probably the file menus, 'Go' button, or the Latest Headlines feed. What happened?

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>>59839493
i'm OK with higher DPI's, but i prefer the "3D" look of win9x over the flat look of win8+
it's not like you can't do high dpi "3D"

... i spent way too much time on this mockup

>>59816967
Nostalgia, mostly.

>>59817025
Most of them weren't, you mean.
Most of them isn't right now.
There was bad GUIs back then the same way there is bad GUIs now.

The only difference basically is the effort to make it usable by complete noobs. While that is mostly good by itself, it tends to have a negative impact on GUI efficiency.

>>59817080
>One thing that does always strike me about them is how efficient they are in terms of screen-space usage. For all the fuss made about "screen real estate" they had it nailed back then.
Try using a web browser or a media player or any full featured text editor from back then and say that one more time.

GUIs mostly improved, compared to what we had. Back then there were no design guidelines or best practices. People just did whatever they though was best and it didn't work sometimes.

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>>59840192
So wrong it's embarrassing. StarOffice and similar DOS programs at the time established a standard that was adhered to until (a) the advent of the Ribbon and (b) the advent of smartphone and tablet interfaces.

These days everyone writes a shitty interface in some webkit framekit and it follows its own styling entirely. Buttons look like labels, links look like labels, hamburger buttons are everywhere.

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Rate?

>>59840245
Your pic has 7 different hamburger menus tho.

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>>59817931
>>59817931

No normal person was using an Amiga in the 00s...

>>59840245
The ribbon was the worst thing to happen to Windows software. Fuck whoever invented that shit. In fact it was probably a room full of developers, someone high up proposed it and everyone was too much of a pussy to tell him it was a retarded idea. Either that or a focus group full of people who have never used a computer.

>>59840245
Reread my post, please.
Look at your image and tell me the amount of screen-space taken by static toolbars and clutter. Most of those buttons and menus won't even be touched by the majority of users. That is not an example of efficient screen-space usage and it's not better than today's design practices.

>>59840329
10/10
nice ass
would lick

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>>59840514
hahaha

>>59823892
OOOHHHH
I can't wait

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>>59839054
I think that people really need to rethink how computers work in terms of the levels that they operate on. I don't see why people want a computer desktop to work like a tablet, and a laptop to work like a desktop. And then there's subcatagories within each of them. And because they must all operate on this level anything that doesn't cut it is made obsolete despite it still being the same (at a technological level) machine that it was when it WAS useful.

Let's look at Haiku for example. It could port Abiword and GNUmeric and some other low-resource productivity software and be a really nifty OS and set up for low-power, low-demand computing, like what you'd want in an office, or for writing reports or whatever. Instead it's trying to be "full OS" and in so doing it risks losing what makes it so appealing: it's speed and lightness.

Not all computers are made equal, nor should they be expected to be.

>>59839903
>Windows is literally the digital equivalent of a cheap, mass produced product that's made in China.
That's Linux, it's a joke nexto commercial products like macOS and Windows.

>>59840451
A PPC Amiga was a very capable machine. Still very useful in the early 2000's.

>>59840451
Re-read what they said, and reconsider what they said based on the context of the time, as well as what they were using it for.

It had a word processor and could print, putting them above a lot of others at that point in time.

Fuck, I remember people still handing in work that was written by hand back then without it being weird.

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>>59841283
>word processors
>99% of people's entire demand for WPs are met by macwrite
>but they've been jew'd out of hundreds of their respective currency for years because of MS office
>hundreds just so they can write letters with text alignment and different fonts

Triggers me so much.

>>59831062
what the hell is that?

>>59839294
HOW?

>>59841913
Mockup.

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Is this "wide screen"?

>>59840559
There you go.
Not take off your nostalgia hipster goggles, compare the two images and realize that UIs back then where mostly worse than the ones we have now. Go ahead, I know you can do it.

>>59841180
Linux is like your grandma's home cooking compared to the overpriced junk food prepared by pseudo-slaves that you buy on MacDonalds that is Windows.

>>59842292
What are you talking about? Are you pretending that's not even worse? It's even more cluttered, but doesn't even have the decency to be consistent.

>>59831062
HNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNGG

WHAT FONT IS THAT

I could make this with GTK2, right?

>>59842318
No, that's Windows, macOS is the McDonalds.
Linux is just the crap shit mixed together by a jobless college fag. Like cup noodles with meatballs, it will feed you, it won't kill you, but is it tasty or good? No.

>>59841530
There are dozens of free word processors that can completely fullfil those 99% of people's demands but they still buy M$Office 2049® because the Jew's influence is too strong.

Microsoft only have the majority of the desktop market now because they outjewed everyone else. Even Linux, who had no companies behind it selling it for desktop use back then was target of false propaganda and monopolization tactics for years and years.
And now we have """"Windows s2 Linux"""" bottoms because M$ finally realized that since it can't compete with Linux in the server market then they should try to assimilate it.

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>>59842419

>>59842439
The amount of people on /g/ who don't see what is actually happening with the "Ubuntu on Windows" deal is staggering. It's textbook Embrace, Extend, Extinguish.

>>59842439
>Microsoft only have the majority of the desktop market now because they outjewed everyone else
They were at the right place at the right time, really. It started when IBM had to outsource their OS, and IBM made a computer that was easy to clone.

>>59842493
Do you think they will succeed?

>>59842545
Hard to say, but seeing as how fast SystemD became ubiquitous and almost as important as the kernal itself it's clear that all this is long-since out of the user's hands, and I don't think either Torvalds or Stallman understand the significance of either.

>>59842399
Not worse. You didn't even try analyzing it I thought you were better than that, well guess not.

Lets see. They moved the barely used buttons into space efficient drop down menus, hid things that were used only a few times like the alignment bar and managed to use the same amount of space as before ( roughly ) more efficiently.
Of course, for basic use the changes are very small but that is an example is an interface that changed little in the way of design but was improved over the years with feedback from telemetry.

>>59842533
They were at the right place at the right time, yes. But then proceeded to use that advantage to destroy all competition and prevent any other company or free product from ever standing up to them.
They neglected servers and power user though. And also didn't care to keep their "modern and cool" marketing going.
So now we have Linux for servers and power users, MacOS for hipsters and Windows for everything else.

>>59817439
>productive work horse
You can pretty much use any old computer for productive as long you have the software for it. I still have an old G5 with Mac OS X.4 and a G4 with Mac OS 9.2.2. I have a shit ton of software for them that I still use.

There are people out there that still use Older Windows PC and Mac systems because they are distraction free.

Hell, look at factories. They still use old dos/win9X/2K/XP, Linux, and Unix machines because its cheaper to replace the computer then it is to replace the whole damn machine.

>>59842897
>You can pretty much use any old computer for productive

This is the point I was making here: >>59840990

These machines aren't as useless as you would be led to believe as long as you use them within their context. I think it would actually be a good thing to have such a variation in capabilites as people could mix and match certain things that excel at certail tasks and save money over all. Like how much cheaper it is to buy an old netbook for portability and then a actual computer for half the price of a laptop that does both.

And a device that is pleasurable for one thing wont be pleasurable for something else. We have a start of this with very cheap chromebooks, but sadly not many out-the-box software packages for it.

>>59842897
>You can pretty much use any old computer for productive as long you have the software for it
Thanks to Microsoft, I have to use new MS Office because people don't care what kind of format Word saves their document to.

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>>59842292
laff

>>59843090
Use Openoffice to convert the document, or save in RTF. Openoffice can even open files from WordPerfect 5.1

>>59843134
>open system settings in Cinnamon
>make it the same size as that
>only fit 16 icons rather than 98's 20

I know it's "only four less" but it all adds up when you take all the wasted space across the system.

>>59843145
>Use Openoffice to convert the document
OpenOffice broke layout many times.
>or save in RTF
I must read other people's documents saved in DOCX. I save in compatible formats, but they don't.

>>59843249
I thought MS was made to have their documents default to ODT? I'm sure I remember reading that?

But really the worst part about propriety formats like DOC and DOCX is that they often over-complicate the file on purpose, making it so, as you say, the layout breaks, even though the attribute is actually really simple.

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>>59841180
Linux is DIY. You're responsible for the parts and materials you use. It can be shit and it can be great, all depending on your work.
macOS is a somewhat quality product.
Windows is a cheap piece of shit that's running purely on a hive of workers and a brand name that has had nothing behind it for a long time.

>>59840419
Underrated pretend retardation

>>59838612
One thing I have noticed is that icons on windows phone read very easily despite only having 2 colors to work with. Where as on android you open the app menu and every icon looks the same with multiple colors and it takes time to find what you wanted.

>>59843608
Windows is an absolute shitshow. We really need new platforms that
1. Don't have decades of baggage
2. Don't have to do all tasks at once
3. Aren't overdesigned shit

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I really enjoy these "framed" icons.

>>59843299
Microsoft has at least stopped making their own meme media formats no one used like they did back in the early 00s with things like WMA.

my xfce still looks like a fucking '98 computer. nice and clean.

>>59844269
I think Movie Maker only put out WMV at the start. Then again who used Movie maker besides people who made AMVs?

>>59839949
Ten years of trying to be like Chrome happened, and Mozilla wasted lots of resources on the worst idea for a mobile OS which was shoved onto $30 phones without enough RAM to run anything in the background.

>>59844317
Yeah, I was sorta gonna mention that, it's basically the only software I know of that actually used that format.

>>59844030
stop using windows 7 then

>>59843608
>Linux is DIY
if you give a person the choice of cooking themselves or going out to eat/order something, you know most except the very few _autistic autists_ will pick the first one, unless you work as a chef and your work requires you to do it

>>59843090
You don't, old Office still works fine

>>59844624
It can't open DOCX though, so time to update, goy.

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not exactly old enough to be classic but i liked old ubuntu. comfy af

>>59844646
DOCX is nowhere mainstream

>>59844779
What cave do you live in? It's 10 years old now, and it's everywhere.

>>59839852
Fucking Panjeet, seriously.

Getting as bad as fucking linux

>>59844595
Right.. or people who want to know what they're eating and know they're capable of making good food.

>>59842419
>rotated kana
I think that's for vertical writing.

>>59825139
pretty much this: there is something sinister in that face

>>59841947
Its on linux as gnustep/windowmaker in most repos. Just Google it to get the exact package name.

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>>59843134
Warm and colorful; back then most people were afraid of computers, so GUI designers needed to make interfaces friendlier.

>>59839630
1/10
lern2shitpost :^)

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>>59839949
If you every want to go even further back, there's always seamonkey