Rust hate thread

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>>59611012
>slower compilation than c++
The RustC is pretty new, the first versions were written in OCaml and efficiency is not a thing for OCaml. It's true that C++'s compilation is one of the slowests. But C++ has had 40 years to fix it
I think Rust compiles faster than C++ based on my experience
>more complicated than c++
Sorry, Rust is not a beginner language
>slower than c++ still
Completely false.
>community is full of SJWs
Every community is. Get out of your shitty basement and you will know.

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>>59611012
Also, only a retard benchmarks languages that have the same level of performance. C++ has its flaws and so does Rust. Difference is, C++ isn't getting any better since 20 years ago

>>59611075
> I think Rust compiles faster than C++ based on my experience

only for small projects. if you add a bunch of dependencies, it will climb to unmaintainable levels. The servo devs told me that a single character recompile takes over a minute.

> Sorry, Rust is not a beginner language

"muh you have to be smart to understand our shitty bloated overcomplicated crap language. i guess ure not smart enough lol! if you were smart you would use our language and put up with large dildos up your ass all day!"

> Every community is. Get out of your shitty basement and you will know.

nope

> Also, only a retard benchmarks languages that have the same level of performance. C++ has its flaws and so does Rust. Difference is, C++ isn't getting any better since 20 years ago

exactly, the fact that it's worse than c++ (=literally the worst language in the world from a usability viewpoint), should tell you how absolutely horrible Rust is.

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>>59611178
Well, it has good tools like cargo, toml and technologies like distinct modules. I highly doubt C++ has the tools that they can improve to begin with
> you have to be smart to understand our shitty bloated overcomplicated crap language
Features are not bloats. If you don't want features use scripting languages.
>nope
Get a job and you would know
> the fact that it's worse than c++ (=literally the worst language in the world from a usability viewpoint), should tell you how absolutely horrible Rust is.
Rust is faster than C++
>Rust is horrible and hard for me
Don't use it then? You got so insecure you had to open a thread to hate on a community based project

>>59611075
>Every community is.
What? No, not even close. They go where they can get away with harm. Most communities either deny them entry by ignoring them or push them out if they weasel their way in. Even in programming, one of the most SJW infiltrated groups there is, most communities are nothing lime the SJWfest that is the Rust community. It's very far from normal. Go join some group that isn't wall to wall socially awkward outcasts and you'll see that normal people don't humor SJWs.

>>59611318
It's the current trend to cater to SJWs, it creates a goodwill among normies. SJWs care about naming things which doesn't have any real affects.

>>59611012
Another case where C babbys try to justify C, through attacking Rust, being used for everything. Sad!

>>59611570
OP is clearly a sepplestard.

>>59611583
Don't think so
>c++ (=literally the worst language in the world from a usability viewpoint),

>>59611583
Another case where C++ babbys try to justify C++, through attacking Rust, being used for everything. Sad!

>>59611012
>slower compilation than c++
barely, also the rust compiler is newer and less optimized, if anything the rich type system of Rust will led to better compilers than anything C++ has.
>more complicated than c++
Rust has more syntactic sugar and features (like match statements), but is more cohesive, the syntax has less caveats than C++'s (for once all modifers go to the left and the type anotation always goes to the right).
>slower than c++ still
C++ has had 40 years and it's already losing in some benches to Rust. Also it's miles easier to create parallel and concurrent programs in Rust than in C++, thus for practical purposes Rust is already faster than C++.
>community is full of SJWs
This is true and sad. Nothing really to say about it.

>>59611732
>if anything the rich type system of Rust will led to better compilers than anything C++ has
What exactly can the type system actually do that makes optimizations easier? It doesn't seem like dataflow analysis is an issue in real-world code in c.

>it's already losing in some benches to Rust
Benchmarks are usually down to how well it's implemented. If C++ is any slower than C in them, then they're not benchmarking the language, they're benchmarking a specific usage of the language.

>Also it's miles easier to create parallel and concurrent programs in Rust than in C++, thus for practical purposes Rust is already faster than C++
There are many things that can't gain anything from multithreading or are non-trivial to implement in a multithreaded fashion. To say that easier implementation of multithreading makes it faster for practical purposes is delusional. Can cargo compile your code with multiple threads? I've never heard of a compiler that can.

>>59612168
>I've never heard of a compiler that can.
The Glasgow Haskell Compiler does automatic multithreading.

>>59612217
I meant compile the code with multiple threads, not automatically multithread the code.

That's pretty neat though. Does that make up for how slow haskell is?

>>59611075
FUCKING TEMPLATE SPECIALISATION IN C++ HOOOOLY SHIT IT SHITS ME TO TEARS.

>>59612575
In theory it makes the program run faster on systems with higher thread counts.
In practice no one runs it, because it's Haskell.

>>59611012
>Rust is full of SJWs
>Look at this Pull request from over a year ago, it proves it
lmao

Rust is like CommonCore it gives minorities a chance by breaking both your legs.

>>59611075
>Every community is. Get out of your shitty basement and you will know.
What? You idiots think you're everywhere but you're actually a very visible infection.

No SJWs in:

CUDA communities
C++ communities
Professional bodies

etc.

You SJWs can only infest areas where it's run by retarded people.

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>>59613560
>In practice no one runs it, because it's Haskell

>>59611348
>It's the current trend to cater to SJWs, it creates a goodwill among normies.
You're wrong, most normies recognise SJW behaviour now and ask the trouble makers to be removed from their communities. That's why Rust's decrepit community must remain isolated.

>>59611570
>C babbys
This sort of infantalisation is why people hate Rust and rustbuckets.

>>59611124
>Difference is, C++ isn't getting any better since 20 years ago
This is what Rustfags actually believe

>What is ISO C++ '98
>What is ISO C++11
>What is ISO C++11
>What is ISO C++14
>What is ISO C++17
>What is ISO C++2x

neck zherself.

>Rust is full of SJWs
Can someone point to a legitimate source on this? Just curious, since I'm not part of such community.

>>59613669
shhhhh you'll hurt the tranny's feelings :<

>>59613669
I use C over C++, but I don't see much in C++11 that's actually an improvement over C++98, and it's not like C11, where they just tidied up a few things and added a couple of new syntactic elements; C++11 added a ton of weird random shit.

>>59613669
>>What is ISO C++2x
Does not exist. Stop spewing memes like a typical 12 y/o /g/ toddler

>>59611012
Rust is actually slightly faster than C++

>>59613700
Not him, but the C++ standardization committee will probably continue adding a new standard every three years because C++ is still a trash dump and always will be.

Ada-95 seems like it did a better job at OOP

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>>59613715

>>59613722
Yeah they will keep adding the same features over the decades to come. While security problems still exists. And if you see >>59611075's picture it perfectly describes what a POS C++ actually is.

>>59613669
>What is ISO C++2x
I bet you don't even know how a C++ code looks like, idiot school kid

>>59613700
It's in the work, that's where concepts will be introduced.
>12 y/o /g/ toddler
>infantilzation
You can smell SJWs by the terms they use

>>59613715
>Rust is actually slightly faster than C++
THIS IS WHAT RUSTFAGS ACTUALLY BELIEVE. Because one single benchmark against a poorly written implementation won out. Hilarious.

>>59613685
>shhhhh you'll hurt the tranny's feelings :<
Sorry :c

>>59613693
>but I don't see much in C++11 that's actually an improvement over C++98
Are you kidding me? Have you tried a ranged for? Rvalue semantics? All the awesome library addit--
>C++11 added a ton of weird random shit
-- ... ah you're retarded. Never mind, continue.

>>59613749
>It's in the work
SO WHY THE FUCK ARE YOU POSTING IT IF YOU GOT 0 (Z-E-R-O) IDEA WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT, KID?

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>>59613746
>I bet you don't even know how a C++ code looks like, idiot school kid
Get the fuck back in your closet you flaming homosexual.

>>59613767
RUSTFAGS, KILL YOURSELF NOW
>>59613771

>>59613780
>>59613771
Is that actually supposed to be an argument?

>>59613735
>While security problems still exists
The security problems are an issue in any language where you can do unsafe operations with memory. It's not like Rust is going to fix that, since you can still do awful things in unsafe blocks. Your software is only as secure as your dumbest developer.

>>59613803
rustfag status
[ ] not BTFO
[x] BTFO
[x] ANALLY DEVASTATED
[x] ASS PAINED
[x] resorting to namecalling
[ ] knows what he is talking about

>>59611012
>slower than c++ still
>Benchmarking languages with the same performance level
Underage b&

>>59613803
It's from official documentation, there's people working on the new standard RIGHT NOW since there's a freeze ("feature completion") on what will be added in C++17. The x is just an indication that they might not make it to the deadline as we saw with C++11 (which was called C++0x for a long time).

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We've been in a near infinite loop of brand new languages that people jump to because "hey X doesn't have these issues that Y has", meanwhile new said killer language has issues up the ass

nobody with a functional brain will jump on these new meme languages because there's no fucking reason in re-learning nearly everything just to get fucked over in a year or two

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>>59613825
Oh edgy

>>59613771
>2d graphics
this is a joke, right?

>>59613838
>there's people working on the new standard RIGHT NOW s
And you just tried to sell me C++2x as if it released, you dumb mouthdrooling idiot

>>59613735
if you need to program with kid gloves in order to not be a fuckup consider python

>>59613693
and you never have to use any of the
>weird random shit
ever if you don't want to.

>>59613825
>>59613780
>>59613749
I never understood why /g/ attracts underage people

>>59613866
That's why I said that I didn't see much of an improvement in it

This is pretty odd. Normally (((people))) that hate Rust are C toddlers.

>>59613874
you forgot to quote these as well
>>59613767
>>59613746

>>59613771
>>59613780
>>59613838
That is not a very convincing set of documentation of what C++2x is going to have

>>59613895
C++20 got published? really?

>>59611012
>slower compilation than c++
Source?
>more complicated than c++
You can avoid complications by writing simple modules
>slower than c++ still
wtf, I please tell me you are joking. Even if it is slow, I'd consider their performance is in the same ballpark. Only pre teens benchmark languages like this way.

> c++ 20 gets released the day after trump gets re-elected
what would the rustfags do?

>>59613926
>a /pol/ shitposter ITT
Oh that's why the thread reeks of underage kids

>>59613855
>C++2x as if it released
Not released, but your implication that C++ hasn't changed in 20 years is proof that Rustfags need to be kept away from keyboards before they hurt themselves.

>>59613852
>HURRR OFFICIAL DOCUMENTATION IS GRAPHICS THUS INVALID
>I HAVEN'T BOTHERED TO LISTEN TO ANY C++ CONFERENCES WHERE THE SAME NAME IS USED MANY TIMES

>>59613901
If Bjarne is to be believed, concepts for one. From last year:

https://herbsutter.com/2016/06/30/trip-report-summer-iso-c-standards-meeting-oulu/

>Last time I mentioned that there was some thought of moving to a two-year cadence after C++17, but for now we’re staying with three years, so the next standard after C++17 will be C++20.

>>59613932
/pol/ and /a/ are the last bits of 4chan that are still 4chan
prove me wrong

>>59613926
>what would the rustfags do?
I think what they're doing now, not programming and instead trying to advocate for their shitty "me too" language with its crippled syntax and "safety" fetish.

>>59613932
>Leftist Rustie triggered by /pol/ and C++ simultenously
It's amazing how triggered these freaks are by true merit

>>59613934
>your implication that C++ hasn't changed in 20 years
It hasn't. Due to heavy baggage of legacy compatibility. Even Boost and Qt handles strings in different ways. The new C++17 has a for_each while Boost has had them since a long time ago. It's a complete disaster.

Not that I would expect a /g/ fizzbuzz expert to understand anything of it

>>59613934
Bjarne is "working" on the compilation delays for the past 20 years, newfag

>>59613952
I am not even a burger muncher, you fat pile of shit

>>59613951
/pol/ is a new board

please stay out of my techloli/g/

>>59613951
>/pol/ and /a/
Schizos and pedophiles do not deserve living

>>59613934
Not in terms of memory safety, which C++17 claims to have at least
Iterator invalidation: if you destroy the contents of a container that you're iterating over, undefined behavior. This has resulted in actual security bugs in Firefox.

    std::vector v;
    v.push_back(MyObject);
    for (auto x : v) {
        v.clear();
        x->whatever(); // UB
    }

>>59613970
no one ever said 4chan was the land of the living bubberoonie

>"this" pointer invalidation
if you call a method on an object that is a unique_ptr or shared_ptr holds the only reference to, there are ways for the object to cause the smart pointer holding onto it to let go of it, causing the "this" pointer to go dangling. The simplest way is to have the object be stored in a global variable and to have the method overwrite the contents of that global. std::enable_shared_from_this can fix it, but only if you use it everywhere and use shared_ptr for all your objects that you plan to call methods on. (Nobody does this in practice because the overhead, both syntactic and at runtime, is far too high, and it doesn't help for the STL classes, which don't do this.)

    class Foo;

    unique_ptr<Foo> inst;

    class Foo {
    public:
        virtual void f();
        void kaboom() {
            inst = NULL;
            f(); // UB if this == inst
        }
    };

>Null pointer dereference
Contrary to popular belief, null pointer dereference is undefined behavior, not a segfault. This means that the compiler is free to, for example, make you fall off the end of the function if you dereference a null pointer. In practice compilers don't do this, because people dereference null pointers all the time, but they do assume that pointers that have been successfully dereferenced once cannot be null and remove those null checks. The latter optimization has caused at least one vulnerability in the Linux kernel.

Why does use after free matter? See the page here: https://www.owasp.org/index.php/Using_freed_memory

In particular, note this: "If the newly allocated data chances to hold a class, in C++ for example, various function pointers may be scattered within the heap data. If one of these function pointers is overwritten with an address to valid shellcode, execution of arbitrary code can be achieved." This happens a lot—not all use-after-free is exploitable, of course, but it happened often enough that all browsers had to start hacking in special allocators to try to reduce the possibility of exploitation of use-after-frees (search for "frame poisoning").

I'd NEVER program a banking system in C or C++

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Writing Rust is like writing C with a chastity cage.
You literally need to ask the compiler's permission to borrow memory, you're not even in control of your own project.

Rust is literally the cuckold's language.

>>59613984
>Actual security bugs in firefox
>mozilla in charge of security
>mozilla in charge of good code
>mozilla makes a new shit language to try and be safe
>inb4 rust turns out to be as unsafe as C++
MUH SAFTEY

>>59614016
At least don't reply if you have nothing to defend yourself with.

C++ is barely manageable. I think that was one of those misunderstood points. My point was that there is no clear flow to work with the language. That can be a blessing, it allows a lot of freedom.

The split between source and headers, which makes project management quite slow. If you make all header libraries you’ll have a lot of copied code – the binaries will be larger. You’ll have to recompile that code every time you want to use it. And the split between the two is always troublesome – you can’t add a new field to your class without a few CTRL-TABs until you find where to write the proper definition.
You still can’t write template code in .cpp files. You have to write code in the headers. If you mix that with some #ifdef & friends, it becomes a mess quite fast. Not to mention that you include content that is really implementation dependent.
C++ still uses the C preprocessor. That is the first feature that should’ve gone from the language. If you think about it, the header should represent the features that your object offers and not a letter more. However, people ended up delivering these huge files that can be used everywhere even if they will be used in one place and one place alone.
Namespaces are useless and make the code way too verbose. Instead of making your code cleaner and clearer, the programmers will end up doing a using namespace xxx. If you don’t believe me, look at how the code for using the duration_cast looks without some usings (auto only hides the dirt under the rug).
Lack of ABI makes it impossible to deliver C++ components without a C interface. If you don’t, you’ll crash quite fast when you use the flag -fsuper-duper-new-feature because you should’ve used the flag -fsuper-duper-extra-cool-newer-feature.

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The thing about Rust that repels me the most is it's a language no one ever asked for.

Apple came out with Swift because it needed to replace Cacao's Objective C. It's revised it many times breaking backwards compatibility but it served a purpose and it's decent (though slow).

Google came out with Go, which *was* slightly needed because C++ didn't have proper multiple assignments (std::tie doesn't work with references), which is now there in C++17, thus Go is useless.

Then the SJWs from Mozilla came out with Rust, the socially just programming language, to make sure any mentally handicapped can write system code "safely". And it's completely worthless because everyone who has a job is going to use what they already know and anyone learning a new language is going to learn something popular and useful.

Rust is trying to be a C++ replacement, but everyone is happy with C++ and there's nothing Rust brings to the table that is a paradigm shift. Also the advocates of Rust are NAUSEATING. You don't win people over by being ignorant of their language's strengths and weaknesses, while calling them "babies" (because you're too socially just to call them faggots). You win them over by showing them use cases where Rust makes their life easier or has more elegant syntax for common statements. OF WHICH NEITHER IS TRUE so fuck off already.

It's advocacy really reminds me of communists trying to sell their disgusting ideology to a healthy thriving economy.

Rust is the systemd of systems programming languages. Enjoy your 20 megabyte hello worlds faggots.

>inb4 C++ is portable
Theoretically you write stuff in one place and you should be ready for… wait a minute. Did you really use <unistd.h>? And did you dare use the std::to_string call? You’re stupid, that doesn’t work under the C++14 compiler under Windows except for Microsoft’s. Why? Well, why not? We love to be arbitrary like that.

Portability is a hard thing in C++. You have to work for it, you have to make sure that you’re doing special stuff for it. C++ is amazing, don’t get me wrong, but in the past 15 years the only non-portable code I’ve seen was written in C++, or was caused by the interaction with a C++ native layer. C++ is mostly portable except when it’s not.

I think it’s easier to achieve true portability under C# or Java, because there’s an “all or nothing” feeling about them – either they have the whole core system ported, or they don’t work at all. That said, you still end up using C/C++ layers, and I love C++ for that, but remember, I offer a look at the bad part.

>>59614035
i thought that rust was SAFE!?
you lied to me! how could you DO THIS? D:

>>59614044
>Enjoy your 20 megabyte hello worlds faggots.
Typical system systemd hater. One thing common with them is their lack of knowledge.
No, there is nothing wrong with systemd

Also read and learn, cartoon watching middle schooler
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/311882/what-do-statically-linked-and-dynamically-linked-mean

>>59614005
>I'd NEVER program a banking system
We know, it's because you're too retarded to use the right tool for the right job.

>>59613984
That's one of the few case where range fors can't be used, doesn't mean you can't use it.

>This has resulted in actual security bugs in Firefox
That's because Firefox is written by retards. Anyone who sees that code knows that you've invalidated the implied iterator.

>>59614056
It actually is safer than C++.

>>59614044
>everyone is happy with C++
woah
everyone doesn't include people
>>59614035

>>59614066
I guess every programmer is a retard.
>Typical C++ damage control force logic
>If you make a bug you are a shit programmer
>If you lose a game of chess you are a shit chess player

>>59614057
>Typical system systemd hater
It's not at all surprising that Rustfags will also defend systemd.

We all know what static linking is stupid child, that's no excuse for 20mb binaries. Even mingw32 static compilations will be under 800kb.

>>59614081
Cringed. Thanks for reminding me 4chan is a place for socially awkward middle schoolers

>>59614086
>that's no excuse for 20mb binaries.
Then don't link statically? Is that a problem or is it too hard for a cartoon watching kid?

>>59614082
to be fair, the programming ecosystem has been shitflooded with crap talent for at least decades now.
most programmers are shit programmers.

>>59614082
>I guess every programmer is a retard.
No, not every programmer uses Rust

>>59614072
People who don't understand the advantage of splitting the "headers" and the "source" (really what they mean is forward declarations and implementations, but they're too retarded to understand that there is no concept of "headers" in C++, it's just a preprocessor construct)

>>59614047
Also C++ is counterproductive. Rust too, but at least with Rust you have some sort of solid codebase guaranteed.
I like to call myself stupid. It’s obvious that I am, that’s why I became a programmer – to make computers do the work for me, because I’m not to be trusted. That’s the case for my instant crush for C# – they have one simple model to refer resources – pointers, hidden by the lack of special notation – moron friendly, so it was a natural match.

I wanted to start a Breakout clone in C++. I had an array of widgets. Those widgets had textures. Those textures were copied over and over and over again, because containers can do that, so I had to go back to rethinking the storage class for the widgets.

I explained about the productivity hit I have when I have to search for a header file and add a few bits there, then go to the constructor (another file) to initialize it, then implement its usage in the header file (because templates) then go back in the other file to make sure another function makes proper use of it. If you put this in the context of IDEs unable to add a field to a class or rename a field of a class…

You can’t just take a DLL and use it as such. You need to have a “development package” which consists of pre-built binaries and huge header files that you need to compile with certain flags.

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>>59614093
you have to go back

>>59614106
Exdee

>>59614100
>Then don't link statically
You seriously have no idea why you'd want to link statically sometimes then. This is why no one wants to use your shitty language.

>cartoon watching kid
Notice, they cannot say faggots because they've been programmed by social justice, so they have to call you a kid.
Fuck off faggot niggers.

>>59614116
>You seriously have no idea why you'd want to link statically sometimes then
Maybe if you read books instead of watching cartoons you would know.

>>59614127
i write books, specifically TFM
so RTFM

The de facto compatibility with C and its own backwards compatibility are both its blessing and curse. Bjarne Stroustrup put it nicely when he said, that the problem with C++ is that it cannot be cleaned up due to the tremendous amount of decade old legacy code that is still being used productively by businesses all over the world2.

Generally, backwards compatibility is regarded as a positive trait of any language, which is definitely true. However, the unfortunate side effect is that the language is getting cluttered up with new features over the years that somehow need to work together with all this unnecessary and totally outdated stuff from the last millennium. Things like the primitive include system and the naïve preprocessor could be replaced by much more efficient and practical mechanisms. Doing so without breaking backwards compatibility is impossible, which is exactly why it will never happen.

>>59614139
XD

>>59614141
THIS

>>59614071
What’s really unfortunate is that “undefined behavior” is part of the language and its specifications. Initially, some aspects were left undefined in order to be able to efficiently deal with different hardware and to avoid unnecessary overhead due to over-specification.

Do note that programmers often confuse the terms “implementation-defined” with “undefined behavior”. Parts of the language that are “implementation-defined” still allow the developers to write perfectly specified code as long as the target machine is known3.

Again, as it is with all the other bad parts, this will probably never be changed – it can’t be changed. Even Bjarne Stroustrup agrees in an interview over at MSDN that way too many things have been left undefined or implementation-defined. If C++ was redesigned from scratch, there would likely be no undefined behavior at all.

>However, I don’t have a time machine and we just cannot break hundreds of millions of lines of code by picking a set of resolutions today4.
t. Bjarne Stroustrup

>>59614159
>>59614141
they should rerwite it in rust

>>59614166

Yeah, it has a fucking preprocessor. The preprocessor is a feature of C because C lacks so many features that the preprocessor is needed. Nobody cared to include tools in C++ to make the preprocessor obsolete, so it still lurks around and takes your firstborn children.
You still use the preprocessor to include headers. So if you have a syntax error in one header, let's say, a missing semicolon in the last line, the compiler complains giving a line in a completely different file. The proper way to do it would be to parse headers separately before including them.
Oh, and because you still have to use #include, you obviously need those shitty #ifndef guards in every fucking header file. Yeah, if you have a fancy compiler, you can use #pragma once. Well, unless the gcc guys decide to deprecate(!) it.

Just going to drop this and go away.
http://www.quinn.echidna.id.au/quinn/C++-Critique-3ed.pdf


/thread

>>59613908
idiot kid

>>59614200
Uh oh, I'm afraid this mutes the so called C++ programmers of /g/ hhahahahaha

>C++ faggots getting BTFO
Let me join

You have to put the complete implementation into the header. This slows down compilation considerably, because all the fucking implementation of the fucking template is parsed every fucking time it is fucking used. Oh, you can of course try to use precompiled headers and open the door to hell.
You can use the keywords typename and class for template parameters, and they do exactly the same. You can put a class into a typename parameter, and you can put a non-class into a class parameter. So what's the point?

If you use a template parameter for defining a type within the template implementation, you often have to put typename in front of it. Example:

    template<typename T> a() {
       typename std::vector<T>::iterator t;
    }

It wouldn't compile without the typename. And if you miss it, the compiler will probably give you an error that is extremely hard to understand. If you get some huge error message when compiling a template implementation, add more typename.

You cannot constrain type parameters. For example, you cannot declare that a type parameter has to be a child class of some other class. You just assume random things about the template type, and if someone else uses in a way you didn't plan for, he may get error messages pointing to the implementation of your template. There was a feature called Concepts that was planned for C++11, but it was dropped (and may come in C++14).

Support for value parameters is very limited. For example, you cannot declare a template taking a parameter of type std::string. You can declare a template parameter of type char*, but you cannot directly pass a string literal to it. You have to define a char* constant with external linkage somewhere and use that as template parameter.

>>59614015

Under-appreciated effort with the pic.

>>59614200
Link bookmarked. LMAO

>C++
GOD I HATE THIS SHIT LANGUGAGE
Functions that don't have void as return type are not required to return a value. Seriously? This just screams for bugs if someone somewhere forgets to write return result; and the compiler doesn't remind him.

ANYONE WHO DISAGREES FUCK O F F

>>59614238
And what do you know, C++14 _completely ignored_it

>>59614166
I think Bjarne should re-create C++. He's learnt his mistakes

I just don't understand why in the world C++ require preprocessors. Honest question.

>>59614280
The 'c' baggage.

>>59614200
Holy shit anon. saved.

>>59614280
To make it backwards compatible with pre-ANSI C.

C++'s biggest mistake was retaining C compatibility, it should have made a clean break from the start even if they tried piggybacking off C's success in the early 80s.

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>>59614200
21 years later and this guy is still rambling about C and C++

>>59614290
I think C is popular because of the same reason Java is popular.

>>59614044
You are fucking high or a shill.

C++ is a trash fire that just so happens to be the right tool for the job for a very small subset of tasks because there are no serious competitors in the areas that it excels at. I hate fucking every minute I'm forced to spend using it because the language is about as friendly as dumpster full of used needles.

Rust in theory sounded fucking fantastic, combining C++'s no and low-cost abstractions with compiler-enforced safety, trying to do C++ right without the cruft. I've been waiting for something like it for years. So I'm actually pretty fucking pissed that Rust turned out the way it did - design-by-committee and a slow-ass compiler that's impossible to please.

>20 unique IPs
>112 posts
so to sum it up,
>my blunt axe is better than your blunt axe

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>>59614044
>safety is bad
I wonder who sponsored this post

>>59614255
How will OP ever hope to recover?

>>59614318
Give the compiler time. I think they are forking LLVM and it's under active development

>>59614044
>Go, which *was* slightly needed because C++ didn't have proper multiple assignments (
Really, faggot? Is anime corrosive to brain? Really?
let (x,y) = (1,2);
Holy fuck you dumb shit

>>59614303
"The next step is to forget C and C++. Learn the fundamentals and that computation is not about electronic computers. I have an article which might help you in the right direction:

http://ianjoyner.name/Types_and_...

Oh, and also forget the term 'software engineering'. That is an oxymoron. Engineering is about hardware and dealing with inexact resources. Digital technology is something that is exact - ideal environments and virtual machines.

The only resource of interest to the computational scientist is time. Can this problem be solved in the time before the universe ends? Or more practically, can this respond to the user's request before the user loses interest? Everything else is just implementation and how to speed the process.

What we do is software development - forget software engineering - that is a term that is used by people who really don't know what they are talking about and want some air of respectability."

BASED IAN

Notice how C/C++ babies runs away once faced with real counter arguments.
*sigh*

""/g/""

>>59614280

You can't do string substitution with templates like you can with macros.

>>59611124
Walter Bright is a wise man

>>59613732
>>59613749
Nice argument
What makes you think it was a single benchmark and what makes you think the C++ one was poorly implemented?

>>59614141
>Doing so without breaking backwards compatibility is impossible, which is exactly why it will never happen.
Except backwards compatibility is thrown out the door with every revision of C++ so your point is really moot.

>>59614200
Good job anon you got a lot of upboats:
>>59614242
>>59614289
>Ian Joyner
>1996
I mean C++ wasn't even ready for prime time until 1998. Do I really have to read this pile of bullshit? Let's take a look at his conclusion

>C++ is complex including too many constructs to overcome problems with itself and C, while lacking sophisticated mechanisms such as garbage collection
>sophisticated mechanisms such as garbage collection
>garbage collection
>sophisticated
Wow, that was pretty retarded Rustfag, how about some valid criticism of C++? What's that? You're triggered? Poor snowflake, back to Mozilla you go. Why don't you kick out another pioneer in computing for opposing gay marriage again?

>>59614255
>Functions that don't have void as return type are not required to return a value.
Yes they are you fucking nigger. You're thinking of C.

>>59614461
>I mean C++ wasn't even ready for prime time until 1998.
And you are hating on Rust when it's only 24 months old? That's a nice level of idiocy. Just fuck off if you can't even argue properly

>>59614335
Most of the Windows kernel is written in C++. I wouldn't be surprised.

>>59614461
Not him but I think GC programs are faster in many cases.
This is counterintuitive, but the note that

Reference counting is a common solution to solve explicit memory allocation problems. The code to implement the increment and decrement operations whenever assignments are made is one source of slowdown. Hiding it behind smart pointer classes doesn't help the speed. (Reference counting methods are not a general solution anyway, as circular references never get deleted.)
Destructors are used to deallocate resources acquired by an object. For most classes, this resource is allocated memory. With garbage collection, most destructors then become empty and can be discarded entirely.
All those destructors freeing memory can become significant when objects are allocated on the stack. For each one, some mechanism must be established so that if an exception happens, the destructors all get called in each frame to release any memory they hold. If the destructors become irrelevant, then there's no need to set up special stack frames to handle exceptions, and the code runs faster.
Garbage collection kicks in only when memory gets tight. When memory is not tight, the program runs at full speed and does not spend any time tracing and freeing memory.
Garbage collected programs do not suffer from gradual deterioration due to an accumulation of memory leaks
Garbage collectors reclaim unused memory, therefore they do not suffer from "memory leaks" which can cause long running applications to gradually consume more and more memory until they bring down the system. GC programs have longer term stability.
Garbage collected programs have fewer hard-to-find pointer bugs. This is because there are no dangling references to freed memory. There is no code to explicitly manage memory, hence no bugs in such code.

>>59614461
>how about some valid criticism of C++
Read the thread

>>59614238
>This slows down compilation considerably, because all the fucking implementation of the fucking template is parsed every fucking time it is fucking used
Doesn't even make a difference with modern compilers, if it makes that much of a difference to you, use precompiled headers.
>Oh, you can of course try to use precompiled headers and open the door to hell.
Or you can be retarded and just keep complaining though, feel free!
>You can use the keywords typename and class for template parameters, and they do exactly the same.
This will matter only with concepts. This isn't a negative feature, just a redundancy.

>If you use a template parameter for defining a type within the template implementation, you often have to put typename in front of it
There's no way around this or the grammar becomes totally undecidable.

>And if you miss it, the compiler will probably give you an error that is extremely hard to understand
Not an issue with the latest revision of Clang++

>There was a feature called Concepts that was planned for C++11, but it was dropped (and may come in C++14).
You're clearly not paying attention then, it's coming in C++20. The reason why concepts are so delayed is because it's a really tough problem, some of the world's best language architects are working on making it work.

>For example, you cannot declare a template taking a parameter of type std::string
Because it's redundant, if its a compile time parameter, you can easily just enumerate it anyway, or use a const char* like you said (the same thing in the end). The problem is within string in that it cannot be compile-time initialised.

>>59614461
http://www.zator.com/Downloads/Why%20C++%20Sucks.htm

>>59614518
You have to post some valid arguments instead of those one liner denial, kiddo. Now I agree GCs are not a panacea, but your replies like "hurr durr modern compilerz XD or "dis matters only with concpetz" are just _too weak_

>>59614318
>a shill
>trash fire
Nice argument you have there shitposter

>So I'm actually pretty fucking pissed that Rust turned out the way it did - design-by-committee and a slow-ass compiler that's impossible to please.
What did you expect out of social justice programming?

What people should have done is taken D, removed garbage collection, added all the missing features from C++ (including multiple assignment) and made a new language, not trying to shoe horn on enterprise friendly features (MUH SAFETY HURRRR MUHHHH SAFETTTTTTTYYYYYYYYYYYY) that piss off programmer.

>I hate fucking every minute I'm forced to spend using it because the language is about as friendly as dumpster full of used needles.
As someone who mastered C++ I have no idea what to tell you. There's a time where it'll piss you off for a while and then you learn enough of it that it gets out of your way.

>>59614423
>babies
Notice rust faggots cannot say "faggot" or "nigger" because they're social justice warriors.

>>59614561
LE NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER NIGGER FAGGOT XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

>>59614561
Grow up and stop watching cartoons

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>>59614382
You have zero reading comprehension. I said C++ has no multiple assignments, not Go. I'm not surprised Rustfags hate anime though.

>>59614561
El Negro (exdi)

Am I in the edge club now?

>>59611257
get a load of this sjw

>>59614606
>>59614599
>I got owned: the post
Weeb trash can't handle basic conversation, more news at 9

>>59614599
100% of the times weebs are braindead.

This is no exception.

>>59614498
GC is undoubtedly faster than C++ style reference counting. I've read studies that found that a good GC is typically as fast as just using malloc/free. The problem with a GC is that the latency can become an issue if you require realtime performance.

>>59614280
The main reasons I typically use a processor:
- conditional compilation based on CLI arguments to GCC
- printing out the line and function from which a debug routine is called.
- turning a function argument into a string for debugging assert style functions.

there are also some reasons that could be made obsolete:
- header guards (just use pragma once if you don't care about ISO conformance)
- constant used for static array lengths (GCC lets you do this anyway)
- small template functions (the cure is often worse than the disease for this one)
- duplicating struct bodies for polymorphism in C (the microsoft-anon-tag extension can replace this)

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>>59614599
>I'm not surprised Rustfags hate anime though.

Well yeah, just picture this for a minute.

- You're an angsty overgrown 22 year old, living with your parents because you missed out on the tech boom.
- You've read the Telecommunist manifesto and have paid $10 to lowtax.
- You're unsure about your "gender identity", but not yet able to pay for hormone replacement therapy so you can "transition" into a Rustrannie.
- Everyone in your community laughs at you for not being able to use a real programming language (for example, C++), books are too hard to read, you need training wheels.
- Your trannie friend at Mozilla recommended you learn Rust, or Rust/SJPL if I may interject. He tells you it eliminate white privilege by making all programmers equally retarded in the name of safety (much like common core forces otherwise smart students into retarded thinking)
- You find your first crate, you're excited, you're finally "programming" (read: playing with library-legos)
- You log onto 4chan to post about how happy you are with Rust.
- You find the Rust hate thread
- All these people with jobs are laughing at the only programming language you know
- You're now butt furious
- Notice that the adults are posting anime reaction faces and calling you a faggot nigger
- Holding back the tears, you call them a baby.
- Your mum calls out "dinner is ready!"
- "JUST A SECOND MUM I'M DOING SOMETHING VERY IMPORTANT RIGHT NOW"
- Close the door to the hallway
- You're now sweating and hungry
- You begin to type out the words:

"Grow up and stop watching cartoons"

Just another day in the life of a Rustfag.

>>59614459
C++ should be as fast as C if you write perfectly optimal code. If this is not the case, you are not comparing languages.

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>>59614668
>- All these people with jobs
>Weeb
>Jobs
>Weeb

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>>59614668
>Jobs
>Pedophile weeb faggots

>>59614668
That sounds like a pedophile Arch anime NEET's daily struggle 2bh famlam

>>59614663
>C++ style reference counting
Except C++ doesn't use reference counting, it uses RAII.

>>59614710
I have no doubt these people use Arch, systemd and program in Rust

>>59614687
>>59614698

>>59614740
Sorry, I'm not a pedo weeb and so I don't watch pedophile cartoons

>>59614727
It uses RAII to achieve reference counting.

>>59614740
What's wrong with systemd again?

It's good to know Rust faggots hate anime so much. Totally makes me want to interact with your community.

>>59614740
>systemd
who doesn't use systemd?

>>59614766
Schizo pedophiles with trust issues. They happen to be exper C(++) karnel haxors

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>>59614776

REMEMBER TO REWRITE EVERYTHING IN RUST
JUST DON'T EXPECT ME TO DO IT OK?

>>59614804
>OP getting an autistic meltdown

>>59614804
Ask the guy who made RedoxOS, he's rewriting all of computer history in Rust. All with an MIT license.

>>59614824
AFAIK he is the CEO of system76. One of the few people that care about OSS

>>59611012
Well they're not wasting my resources so more power to them if they want to try and invent a better mouse trap. My only complaint about Rust and it's evangelical community is that they spread a lot of FUD about C++ based on misleading comparisons.

Rust *can be* faster and simple than C++ under certain circumstances, but none of these circumstances is anything like a professional enterprise application. Yes they're trying to solve problems inherent in the development of C++ over the years, but they're still well off ratifying a language that's ready to step into professional use cases.

Again, I have no problem with people who enjoy it and more power to the amateur and enthusiasts who want to prove what it *can* do, just please, please, for the love of all that's good and decent, stop trying to convince the managers who are easily drawn in by hype that it's something professionals should be considering for their projects.

I have enough headaches in my life working with C++ day in and day out, I don't need the additional ulcer-inducing stress of explaining to a suit why Rust isn't ready for prime time and why he shouldn't be devoting our increasingly tight resource pool to prototyping with it.

>>59614883
Rust isn't ready yet and everyone knows it. In time it'll get mature when proper standards are set. Rust already fixes some of C++'s design choices though.

>>59614883
>My only complaint about Rust and it's evangelical community is that they spread a lot of FUD about C++ based on misleading comparisons.
It's the only way they can get converts to their cult, by lying.

Honestly, if Rust wanted to make a safety-crippled language and tried to honestly advocate its strengths rather than go around lying about languages and disparaging its users, it would have probably gained more interest. But the abrasiveness of its advocates probably mirrors their political ideology.

To them, C++ = white privilege and must be destroyed. It's hilarious.

I'm glad my boss doesn't take Rust seriously and then he thinks Mozilla is run by a bunch of incompetent mavericks. Comfy as fuck.

>>59614917
>To them, C++ = white privilege and must be destroyed. It's hilarious.
Yet another meme courtesy of 4chan. Did you read before actually replying?

LOOOOOOOL C++ BABIES BTFO HOW WILL /G/ EVER RECOVER

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>>59614917
>To them, C++ = white privilege and must be destroyed. It's hilarious.
how did you arrive at this thought process, it reads like dementia-induced word salad where you interchange two things you really hate.

>>59614904
>Rust already fixes some of C++'s design choices though
And in the process makes even worse design choices.

Rust advocates treat C++ and other languages they want to defame as stationary targets. In reality, more changes are happening in the C++ world than "catch up" by Rust:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGu9XWsOgWQ

>>59614965
>they want to defame as stationary targets
And so does C++ users. What's your point?
>>59614962
This

>>59614962
It's called the last resort of a /pol/ tard.
>See no defence left
>Call him an SJW Nigger and that will correct my records

Excuse me I have a question.
How will Rustoddlers ever recover?

>>59614962
>>59614928
Observe their behaviours, it's the same faggots as usual. Why do you think they're obsessed with "safety" and can't seem to use range for's without invalidating the iterator?

javascript et al. have been infested by socjus and are now led by strong independent wymen.

C++ to them stands in the way of "eradicating the cis white male", as it's a solid programming language preferred by people who know what they're doing.

Just like in education, where common core is used to deliberately cripple the minds of the youth, the programmer's mind is crippled >>59614015 into worrying about safety as if he's the lowest common denominator.

>>59615011
By writing memory safe applications

>>59615011
Dubs confirm Rust is FINISHED.

>>59615017
I suppose that does explain their obsession with C and C++ as their main target and not Java.

If you don't reply to this post your mother is going to compile in her sleep tonight.

>>59615017
>C++ to them stands in the way of "eradicating the cis white male"
Yeah, fucking reptilians man. Were are being controlled by jews and aliens are here.

>>59615026
You gotta be at least 18 to be posting here

>>59615039
Rust is "a memory-safe systems language". Why would Java ever be the target?

>>59615039
Well it's just that I've never seen a language created to attack another language before.

C++ advocates never really went after C, just after people who used C++ like it was C, which is the main flaw of the language.

Most people treat each other with respect, except Python niggers of course. But Rust programmers do everything they can to undermine confidence in a very widely used (and loved) language. It really fires the neurons.

>>59615049
Why are you here then?

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>>59615044
>Heh, I'll just put a conspiracy-theorist strawman in there, that will totally work
>Oh fuck I forgot that I used a Microsoft shill strawman before in this thread >>59614335
>Fuck fuck fuck, how do you delete posts on this 4chan thing
>I wish I was back on plebbit :'(

>>59615062
>C++ advocates never really went after C
Bjarne did

>>59615064
Not him, but only someone underage would ever reply to that.

>>59615114
Then why did you reply? Are you admitting you're below 18?

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>>59615106

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>>59615114
>Bjarne did

>>59615145
http://www.artima.com/intv/goldilocks.html
>The problem with the C way is that if you write code C-style, you get C-style problems. You will get buffer overflows. You will get pointer problems. And you will get hard to maintain code, because you're working at a very low level.

>>59615163
C TODDLERS
B T F O
T
F
O

>>59615163
Fair comparison.

Please show me where he advocates "Writing in in C++" or calling C users toddlers.

>>59615178
pls leave
>>59615182
>Please show me where he advocates "Writing in in C++"
He advocates writing C++ in the article.
>calling C users toddlers.
I never implied this

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>it's just C with a bunch of garbage added to make your life harder

every time

>>59613715
and .net is faster than them both by an order of magnitude

>>59614917
>To them, C++ = white privilege and must be destroyed.
You're not wrong. We have one, just ONE, dev in the office who is always angling for Rust in the office and he's an obvious weekend social justice warrior. He even took "a day without women," off "in solidarity."

I'm baffled as to why he still works with us, but I guess it's tough to find C++ talent these days what with all the universities being giant Java degree mills and all the tertiary "code camps," being web development in focus.

>>59615368
>We have one, just ONE, dev in the office who is always angling for Rust in the office and he's an obvious weekend social justice warrior. He even took "a day without women," off "in solidarity."

Holy shit that cancer purified.

FUCK RUST
D FOREVER

>>59611012
>comparing rust with c derivatives like c++
Rust is functional, variables are immutable and it's appropriate for systems programming

A functional language that compiles don to the metal and the variables are immutable

Can't you see how many possibilities this opens for fast parallel processing?

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>>59616482
fortran is objectively the best parallel language

use Elixir
10 million concurrent socket transfers on a laptop i3

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>>59611012
>community is full of SJWs
Why should I care? Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. SJWs are still far better than alt-right people calling my wife and daughters "kikes" and myself a "race traitor" and a "cuck".

>>59613886
>I don't use the improvements so there are none

>>59614047
>non-portable libraries make programs hard to port
news at 11

>>59614238
>You cannot constrain type parameters. For example, you cannot declare that a type parameter has to be a child class of some other class. You just assume random things about the template type, and if someone else uses in a way you didn't plan for, he may get error messages pointing to the implementation of your template. There was a feature called Concepts that was planned for C++11, but it was dropped (and may come in C++14).

What is SFINAE.

>>59611012
At least rust has package management

>>59613951
>/a/
>not completely gone to shit
>not crawling with weeaboo normalfags

>>59611075
>Every community is
absolutely not. get out of san francisco the world capital of the gays and you will know.

it's easy to detect if a language is shit, just see if it uses let as a keyword

>>59613848

This.
Also, web-"dev" hipsters hate languages like C++ (well, most of them would not even like Python).

That is a reason important enough to use them.

>>59613848
100x this

if you're working on real software, then depending on what you're doing then C++ or java etc are going to make the most sense to use, it's mostly just brainlet manchild NEETs or literal webdevs who are going to hop on these shitty memelangs

C++ is great and only getting better with each new standard. It has its warts but every language around for so long will. Moving to a new meme language especially one backed mainly by a single company. The rust community also comes off as very culty.

>>59611124
D is interesting and once nogc becomes usable with the standard library I will check it out again. There is also safed which will essentially accomplish everything rust sets out to (basically a 'safe' and 'unsafe' mode compiled to native code). If D gets it right then it is probably the most likely C++ replacement long-term.

>>59616613
lmao typical rustcuck nu-male. Even married into 'the tribe'. I suppose next you will tell me that the holocaust was real, we should invade Iran, and demographic replacement of ethnic europeans with shitskins is 'diversity' and 'progress'.

>>59617240
>ethnic europeans with shitskins is 'diversity' and 'progress'.
not him, but if you're talking about America you can't do shit about it, demography is politics and demography is saying that the white supremacy is dying :^)

>>59611257
Wow java is faster than c#

>>59618816
yup. don't fall for the microcuck shills

http://boycottnovell.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/comes-3096.pdf

>>59613852
Hows that not bad ass

>>59613852
problem?

>>59614044
>but everyone is happy with C++
You'd be quite wrong about that.

>>59614141
Its not a positive to apis

>>59614106
Experienced C and C++ programmer here.
There is NO advantage to splitting header and source. It's counterproductive and retarded.
Fuck off, fanboy.

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>>59614599
>C++ diehard fanboys are redslutfags
Not surprising at all.

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>tfw skilled in both C, C++, and Rust
>Use and like both

Feels good being an overall good programmer, I don't have to side with any single retarded side.
However it remains objective that Rust is an improvement over C++.
C++ is designed by a committee, has no direction, and has to maintain backwards compatibility with C, and what Linus says about C++ is unfortunately completely right whether you accept it or not. Rust has none of that, and as a result, Rust has been designed far better than C++ has been.
Whether the Rust community is SJW or not is irrelevant, since I don't even involve myself with the community at all. I just like the language.

In 2017, C++ still has no std::Option or std::Result type, and as a result forcing the programmer to do disgusting things such as returning pointers to internal/heap memory (in order to use nullptr) or even worse, overload

operator bool()

.

Yes, I know C++17 is getting std::optional and std::variant, but it sure took them long enough and it seems like to me they just took the idea straight out of Rust.
It's still much too late for them to repair all the damage they caused by not introducing it earlier though.

Also,
>Copy semantics by default

>>59614758


>It's written in c++