Do you do whiteboard interviews /g/?

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of course women make this a gender issue somehow

>>59600909
Agreed, he's a huge faggot. I can't 100% judge all whiteboard interviews the same though. The fizzbuzz tier HR-guy-interviews-engineers process is retarded though yes.

>admitting to being bad at their jobs

Maybe they should be fired and their jobs given to people who can actually do them.

>>59600952
whiteboard tests rarely are part of their jobs, googling shit is.

>>59600909
I don't know anything about him but he's absolutely right on this one. I do know how to bubblesort.

>>59600909
i would whiteboard in pseudocode, demonstrating that you know the syntax and everything off the top of your head is less important than showing that you know how to go about solving a problem.

it really depends on what the interviewer is trying to get out of a whiteboard test whether it's pants on head or not.

How acceptable is it to google shit when you're an engineer?
>future engineer

>>59601072
It's probably the single most relevant skill but no one will ever act like it's normal.

>>59600909
I think whiteboard interviews don't test all the skills that are important to being a good employee, but they aren't useless. They don't test research skills, organization, ability to quickly grasp an unfamiliar codebase, ability quickly learn new paradigms / frameworks /APIs, etc.

But they do test understanding of algorithms and asymptotic runtimes, ability to work through a complicated issue when the answer can't be looked up (ie, they demonstrates your thought process), ability to work under stress and time constraints, etc.

>>59600909
>i look up code on the internet all the time
no wonder why RoR is such a pile of shit

>>59601091
thank

>>59600975
>>59601002
Bubblesort is simple enough that one should be able to come up with an implementation on the spot.
If you can't, you are probably not suited for coding.
If I had to do interviews, I would accept someone to ask for a simple description of the algorithm, but expect them to be able to implement it.

There's a certain baseline, an employee would also be expected to be able to calcualte 4+4 in the head.

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>>59600918
>if you're busy working and raising kids
GTFO this is no excuse for not learning to do your job.
>not performing rote memorization
it isn't that easy.

I mean whiteboard is retarded but keep absolute idiots and morons about of it.
Image hiring girl who can't to simple fizz buzz or other anagram.

>>59600909

I hate the fucking industry. You can have ten or fifteen years of solid experience with interesting projects on your resume. They'll bring you in because they like you resume. Then they won't ask a single fucking thing about your resume. Often, they have no idea what position they're interviewing you for, or what team you'll be on. And it's not just BigCo. It's smaller companies, too.

And everyone just copies whatever company they like. In the 1990s, Microsoft was famous for their stupid puzzle questions. In the 2008-ish era, the Google-style interview got popular. So popular, that they wrote a fucking book on the topic (Cracking the Coding Interview).

It's fucking retarded that you can be a competent, experienced software engineer and YOU HAVE TO READ A FUCKING BOOK TO LEARN HOW TO PASS INTERVIEWS.

The entire industry is an idiotic joke. Almost everyone is writing retarded CRUD apps, yet they convince themselves that they need "Google quality engineers" for some reason, and they blindly assume that rejecting 90% of candidates means they're getting the top 10% rather than an utterly random selection.

Whiteboard interviews are fucking retarded but these people complaining about them are even more retarded.

So fuck it, keep them around to weed these retards out.

>Hurrdurr I don't understand this problem please let me take it home and work it

kill yourself

Bubble sort is the easiest sort to implement and if you asked kid who has no idea about programming to sort list of items in algorithmic way he would probably invent bubble sort.

If you don't know what it is you are off course unable to do it on whiteboard, it's understandable. If they give you the specs on how it works then not being able to do it on whiteboard just means you are fucking retarded.

I don't understand why they are devaluating themselves by saying they are only able to copy paste code from google results because kids and pajeets can do that too...

>>59601267
Google quality engineers are literally kiddos that recently passed an algo class

>>59601277
do they really use bubble sort? isn't bubble sort like a worst possible scenario in terms of performance? why not test for something useful?

>>59601307

Depends on when. Google used to only consider PhDs. Now they're much more open.

Their tests still often boil down to culture tests. e.g. the famous "shrunken down to the size of a dime, stuck in a blender" question. It hinges on whether you've heard of the square-cube law. Never heard of it until the interview question became famous. But it's commonly taught in a variety of courses at certain universities.

>>59601321

In what world is having memorized, say, QuickSort, a useful skill?

They should be asking questions that test your ability to understand a problem and come up with a solution, not your ability to remember completely arbitrary algorithms.

>>59601321
At least the DHH guy in the op's pic can't do it.

Whiteboard interviews aren't inherently bad, but when you get docked during them for syntax/api issues they are cancer. It should be purely about your creativity and algorithm knowledge. Not imprinting stackoverflow on your brain.

>interview at _oo__e
>do pretty good in all of the whiteboard interviews, solving the problems in the allotted time
>get rejected, reason given was that I compared structs with ==

>>59600909
>creator of RoR
>I can't do bubblesort without leeching actual brains on stackoverflow
seems about right

>>59600975
Maybe if they werent so shit, doing simple algorithms on a whiteboard wouldnt be hard and they wouldnt have to look up solutions for everything online

>>59601339
>compared structs with ==
should've stuck to java

>>59601321
Bubble sort has great performance on already sorted collections :^)

>>59601339
If you chose to write your answers in Java, you deserved it (though I agree it's generally a waste of time to harp on syntax).

In Java, == is quite different than many other languages, like C++, Go, and Python (Google's other languages). So it is a bit less of a trivial issue in this case.

>>59601267
>yet they convince themselves that they need "Google quality engineers" for some reason
thank shitblogs such as joelonsoftware

>>59601351
Early era of RoR in a nutshell
http://harmful.cat-v.org/software/ruby/rails/is-a-ghetto
It took a LONG time to improve to a reasonably stable system, only really once well read engineers had to fix it because their organisations had started using it

>>59601390
>that fucking IRC convo
>HURRRRRR GIMME ACCESS
>btw your build fails
I'm mad

>>59601277
>if you asked kid who has no idea about programming to sort list of items in algorithmic way he would probably invent bubble sort.
he would probably invent insertion sort

>>59601277
I had one of my non-CS classes do this for a project, most people invented insertion or selection sort.

>>59601360
thanks compiler

>>59601267
>The entire industry is an idiotic joke. Almost everyone is writing retarded CRUD apps, yet they convince themselves that they need "Google quality engineers" for some reason, and they blindly assume that rejecting 90% of candidates means they're getting the top 10% rather than an utterly random selection.
Correct.

>>59601326
>Google used to only consider PhDs.
Bullshit. They hire tons of people with bachelor degrees, however they do hire an above average number of PhDs compared to most of the industry. They tend towards hiring people with pedantic knowledge like memorizing APIs and algorithms they don't need to use regularly and could easily look up which I guess has a large intersection with people who go for PhDs.

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I agree that most whiteboard interviews are pretty fucking retarded but this shouldn't be an excuse to fail at basic CS 101 stuff especially if it's directly relevant to the position you're applying for.

>>59601577
90% of these whiteboard interviews are pretty much an elaborate tests to see if you're lying about your credentials, because everyone lies so badly on their CVs these days. It's a field with no real certification authority.
I hope that an employer has every right to put an applicant through the whiteboard strainer because it catches so many shitters that it's worth the effort.

>>59601577
What was this girls story again?

>>59600909
>underrepresented in the field
Fucking dropped

>>59602132
Generic Great Value brand weekend code bootcamp web "developer" #23428342 went to an interview and was asked to write Fizzbuzz

She then wrote a blogpost about how she shouldn't have had to do "weird algebra" to work as a web developer

She wasn't completely wrong and the position she was applying for was basically just front-end web development giving websites a paint job but still it spoke about the state of the industry and everyone proceeded to throw peanuts at her for the next month

>>59600909
>>59600918
>They think this kind of job interview are about memorizing algorithmes
They should start to think. It will help a lot

>>59601072
It's normal but you should be able to solve some basic problems without the need of googling

>>59602184
>>59601577

Actually she was a web designer who misunderstood that a job ad was looking for front-end engineers and not front-end designers.

>>59602254
this

>>59600909
>can't code bubble sort
is he retarded? this isn't about memorization, just basic programming skills

I'm a teacher and I don't understand whiteboard interviews.

If I was to give you a paper on a research topic I wouldn't expect you to do it blind. I would expect you to demonstrate critical thinking skills on a timeline as well as show your ability to conduct and analyze research.

Replace the whiteboard with some sort of open ended task that the people are told 24 hours before or something and have to bring to the interview as well as explain their solution.

>>59602434
but then you'd have to conceive tests for which the solution isn't directly given on stackoverflow in all languages that exist
that'd be difficult for HR, it'd take cis white engineers and also that'd be too difficult for candidates that are underrespresented in the industry

you don't even realize what you just said is plain bigotry, bet you voted trump

>>59602482

Kek.

But seriously that's what you pay HR for. Instead most companies just hire some secretary who was good at making lists.

>>59600909
To be fair, if they want you to bubble sort you should probably learn to bubble sort. You can probably look up the algorithm and implement it if you have any fucking clue of what's going on.

>>59600909
Why does it matter?
In the end whether the interview is hard or not the company only needs a set amount of people.
Complaining that they pick someone else instead of you is pure jealousy and in this case even egoistic

They are stupid. "Sorry, you haven't retained the details of this niche algorithm (and bubble sort is a good example of a niche algorithm because it's useless in almost all circumstances), you don't get the job."

Just seems like they're using any excuse not to hire someone who otherwise seems competent.

>>59601220
I don't even remember the difference between bubblesort and insertion sort. If you said "write a facile sorting algorithm on this whiteboard right now" that would be ok.

>>59601326
A kid from my town worked on youtube search for google before he graduated high school

>>59601275
This. Even if you cant find a solution you should show your thought process and approach. Thats the whole point.

I think whiteboard interviews are cool as long as its done tastefully. Simple problems with multiple steps and requirements. It really is the best way to see if someone is worth anything more than a googling copy paster.

That said it should be only a small part of the interview.

Do they explain what the algorithm is in those sorts of interviews or do they just expect you to know it?

>>59602338
He's not saying he can't code it, he's saying if he was in an interview and was asked to write it out from off the top of his head, he couldn't. In other words: He doesn't have the specific code for a bubble sort memorized.

>>59600909
I think it's fine as long as they tell you what the algorithm is.
You should be able to implement any algorithm from the top of your head.
Retards can still luck out by memorising all of them but it's not the only part of the interview..

Web dev has to be the most snowflake area of software development. Its filled with cucks who love to reinvent the wheel in a sea of redundancies to fuel their control freak tendencies.

>>59602601
>He's not saying he can't code it, he's saying if he was in an interview and was asked to write it out from off the top of his head, he couldn't.
that's exactly saying he can't

>He doesn't have the specific code for a bubble sort memorized.
it's about the algorithm, not the """"""""""""kode""""""""""""
you're supposed to at least know a few sorting algorithms, if you don't have bubblesort just apologize and come up with another sorting algorithm, if they're smart that might even be what they want

>>59602596
they expect you to know it

>>59602532
The whole point of whiteboard interviews is to see if the candidate asks questions and can actually complete a task given a set of specifications. It's not testing if you've memorized an algorithm.

>What is bubble sort?
>Ok, can we walk through an example,? What would the expected output be in this case?
>Ok l, here is how I would implement it.

>>59602601
>I look *code* up on the internet all the time
idk, he didn't say he'd need a refreshment on what the algorithm is, he talks about code specifically

>>59602635
>HAHAHAHA HE DOESN'T KNOW BUBBLESORT ESCORT THIS MAN OFF THE PREMISES AND CREMATE HIS JOB APPLICATION

>>59602631
That's a bit shit. I don't remember the names of sorting algorithms and what they do off the top of my head. Sorting algorithms are basically a thing you don't ever have to code since someone has made a more optimised version already.

Obviously, optimised version of bubblesort is not using bubblesort.

>>59602601
>write a code that prints all numbers from 1 to 100 but for numbers divisible by 3 prints fuzz, divisible by 5 prints buzz, divisible by both 3 and 5 prints fizzbuzz
>omg dumb interviews why should I memorise the code for that

>>59602601
>>59602596
I mean... depending on what you're applying to that may be a decent test but it seems retarded for most positions.

If i was applying to work on improving search algorithms or do low level/embedded work that'd be expected to be there.

If i was applying as a webdev or game dev or vray dev or something else that's not concerned with low level stuff i'd be sodium incarnite since that shit has nothing to do with what I'd be doing and even if i know it i'd ask how it's relevant to such a position.

>>59602658
Yeah but if you're applying for a game Dev job they're not going to expect candidates to be able to whip up an A* pathfinding algorithm on the fly so they ask a simple question just to see how you think.

>>59600909
>women and black people are bad at whiteboard interviews because they're bad at programming
>the whiteboard is the problem

>>59602677
If it's a senior position and it's related to pathfinding you could atleast ask for some sort of node traversal and go from there.

>>59602658
it tests if you can write simple code given simple instructions. It's relevant to _every_ developer position. And given how many people are constantly ass-blasted about even the simplest of tasks on the interviews - questions like this are very much needed to filter out the weak insecure developers ("but I wrote SO MUCH great software, how dare they imply I can't code at all! (a failed interview doesn't imply that)",

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>>59602720
Yes but you'd have to give some instructions (or the very least provide them if candidate asks) . Stuff like sample input and sample output and in the case of bubble sort maybe a graphic on how it'd work.( cause otherwise it wouldn't be bubble sort )


If it's just asking you to implement an algorithm from memory then you should start reevaluating whether or not this company knows what they're doing.

>tfw am good at whiteboard interviews
>tfw you all hate them
>tfw I'm a better candidate than /g/
>tfw /g/ is all nogs and bitches

>>59602787
> then you should start reevaluating whether or not this company knows what they're doing.
I agree, if you say "I forgot how bubblesort works exactly" and they refuse to remind you and give any specifics of the algorithm then there is not much to evaluate - the interviewer is inadequate.

>>59600909
Whiteboard interviews are fine so long as they actually focus on your problem solving/critical thinking skills. I just finished a whiteboard interview last Thursday that followed that system, it was really fun: it was 85% problem solving and 15% C#-like pseudocode. Shame I'm a brainlet, though, because I got called the next day and was told that I didn't know enough C# so they were gonna pass.

>>59602828
They failed you for not being practiced enough in a specific language that you could probably could have picked up in a few days?

>>59600909
>the """discriminate""" against (((those))) under represented
Wtf I love whiteboard interviews now

>>59602842
That's what I was told over the phone. I passed the phone interview obviously but probably not well enough in comparison to other hires they were considering. I'm also in the middle of going back to school at night for CS and my projects for my current job are only starting to come together now, so I was probably a red flag from the start and they just wanted to take a gamble. On the other hand, I'm probably never going to know the real reason because my coworker applied to them and went through the process weeks ago, fucked up the whiteboard interview, and still got the same answer.

It's an abstract kind of hell.

>>59600909
>I cannot FizzBuzz
>...therefore the test is flawed
I would say that your education is flawed.

>>59600909
Sounds like the exact kind of people these tests are supposed to weed out

>>59602888
Also:
>“Whiteboard” interviews are widely hated. They also discriminate against people who are already underrepresented in the field.
How, exactly, does FizzBuzz discriminate?

>>59602901
>How, exactly, does FizzBuzz discriminate?
Women and minorities disproportionally fail it (and all other challenges) so it's discriminatory.

>>59602044
This, but I like take home projects rather than whiteboarding. We give our candidates take home tests. In my case we're hiring systems engineers for Devops type of stuff, so thy basically need an IT infrastructure background with the ability to write code.

We had one guy that was a referral from another employee. His resume was solid. He didn't even come close to finishing he take home test, which should have been around a 100 line script in the language of his choice. What he submitted was a single function definition that had barely anything to do with the task at hand and it was clear he was googling random shit and just copied this random code from some stack overflow thread.

Why aren't you posting the link?
https://theoutline.com/post/1166/programmers-are-confessing-their-coding-sins-to-protest-a-broken-job-interview-process

>I don't know what np complete means. Should I?
This one is pretty stupid. That's not shit you can just quickly google.

>>59602932
take home projects feel way more like unpaid work compared to interview quizzes and many programmers hate them. Also you still need to test during the interview since they could just ask someone else to write the project for them and exaplain how it works which makes it useless imo.

Did one of those interviews once and they said it went great. Unfortunately they refused to hire me because I didn't have a facebook.

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>>59603019
>mfw it probably happened thousands of times

>>59602982
I agree somewhat, I once tried to get a job at epic games and they gave me a take home thing that I spent about 15 hours on. I submitted it to them, prior to any interview, not even a phone interview, and then never heard from them again. Pretty fucking annoying.

Like i mentioned it's a 100 line script, it shouldn't take them more than 2-3 hours. I want to see that they can write code I can understand, that they have real experience writing rather basic scripts, and that they have opinions on how things should work and what tools should be used.

>>59600909
The people who hate whiteboard are the same people who go through uni and copy and paste eveything from google, then bitch about a course/professor being too hard when they have projects where they have to think

>>59603019
If you don't have a Facebook you most likely suffer from some form of mental illness. It's a perfectly valid reason to not hire someone for.

>>59603143
Or they do not have Facebook because they are not interested in seeing pictures of lunches and cats.

>>59603158
that's antisocial behavior. A sign of a mental illness.

Did one of those interviews once and they said it went great. Unfortunately they refused to hire me because I had a facebook.

>>59600909

>I would fail to write bubble sort on a whiteboard
Oh come on. Unless you don't know what bubble sort is, most programmers should be able to implement it. Really, if you just say "efficiency doesn't matter, and you're not allowed to use the standard library; code golf me a sorting algorithm", you can get bubble sort 90% of the time, because it's the most intuitive way to do it (even if it's garbage).

>>59603158
>they are not interested in seeing pictures of lunches and cats
Freaks. I wouldn't hire them either

>>59603165
Or you know, the HR dept cant do their risk assessment so he's automatically considered a risky hire.

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>>59603019
>mfw no one on my team has a fb account
>neither does my boss

>>59603143
>you most likely suffer from some form of mental illness
[citation needed]

>>59603234
HR hearsay is good enough to le trashman your CV.

>>59600918
>marking up text is considered coding

Why am i still coding replies to these memes?

>>59603234
>[citation needed]
Maybe by you, but not to HR workers

>>59603219
I understand, someone's abundant presence in all kinds of social media helps do less work and be more efficient. But still if your risk assessment procedure boils down to "no facebook = no hire" you should be executed.

>>59600909
If I was interviewing I would expect someone to be able to whiteboard psuedocode for a sample problem.

Getting syntax and shit correct is a secondary issue - if you can do psuedocode then you can probably implement a solution in any language with a reference cheat sheet, and if you can't do psuedocode then why the fuck would I hire you to implement google-code that you don't even understand?

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>>59603240
>>59603260
Let me guess, I'm highly unstable if I don't have my photos on facebook, twitter, instagram and on every other social media, right?

>>59603261
Not really .a good deal of firms hire entirely through an HR firm and for them the process is scrub social media to make sure that this dude isnt into fucked up shit and hiring him wont reflect badly on the company.

At that point you're basically unemployable by some companies.


Doesn't matter though - there's lots of jobs and if a company is filling diversity quotas and not hiring outlaws with no facebook profiles you can bet your ass they're probably not doing something worth doing.

>>59603300
Yes.

t. my mum works in HR

>>59603300
Yes.

>>59603345
>>59603300
To add to that - there's usually so many applications and HR departments tend to be so lazy that they will use any excuse to reject a resume.

>>59603190
>Unless you don't know what bubble sort is
The problem here is that bubble sort is considered useless, so considerable amount of people may not even look into how it works.

>>59602546
I couldn't remember the difference between quicksort, mergesort, insertsort and whatever they are if my life depended on it.
That's why I said, I wouldn't mind them to ask about the special thing in that sorting algorithm, but for something as simple as bubblesort I would expect them to be able to implement it after a clarification.

>>59600909
>interviewing at a corporate giant (tech field, not necessarily software but they do write a lot of it)
>30 minute phone interview where they ask me to describe past projects and jobs
>they ask me a couple of random technical questions (difference between '==' and '===' in js for example)
>come in for an in-person
>it's a 30 minute interview
>they ask me maybe one or two more questions about my work history, the rest of the time we chat about their company, what they do, and software in general
>then they give me a tour of the office
>get an offer

wtf? how can they decide they like me based off of this. should i be nervous /g/?

>>59603423
It's a place looking for a web dev for something or other that's not mission critical but would be a major plus if done, no matter how slowly. I guess you have previous work experience? You'll be fine.

>>59603423
You should start running. After your first day in job you will find yourself in Brazil with only one kidney left.

>>59603473
it's more of a backend java role. they do some angular which is why js was brought up.

>>59603505
If it is a large enough company, they can hire "any reasonably good candidate" and test you with real work.

>>59603505
Point still stands, I'm gonna guess you're doing something that's either not mission critical to the day to day operations or maintenance. You'll most likely be fine since it sounds like you're not sailing solo like I am at my job.

>>59603423
If I had to guess, your past work experience told them you already knew how to program. After that, they just wanted to know if you'd be a good fit in their team. After all, they're the ones that will have to put up with your insufferable ass for the foreseeable future.

>>59601072
I only Google search for documentation or clarification on how an API is supposed to work in case I found a possible bug

I do but its a discussion and theres no real answer. It something like "design a model that represents a grocery store" and we talk about relationships, datatypes, constraints, etc. That along with coding examples is good i think

>interview for a dev position at company doing some data analysis SaaS stuff
>they seem pretty impressed
>guy asks me if I've heard of a particular open source tool they use as part of their pipeline
>tell them I'm its developer
>they're really impressed now
>they take a week to call me back
>turns out they were having issues with HR
>the tech people are keen on hiring me but HR says I don't fulfil some formal requirements for the pay grade the job was advertised for
>they could only offer me a contract at the top level of a lower pay grade
>about the same as I was earning at the time anyway so I declined

>>59601240
>if you're busy working and raising kids
This is the bullshit excuse that has always got women out of everything. It's the excuse they jump to when they have nothing left.

>using google to do your job for you
Millennials, everyone

>>59604618
>not using valuable tools so you can maintain this notion you have that you're some l33t hacker
nobody wants to work with self absorbed children

>They also descriminate against people already who are already underrepresented in the field.
it was going all too well.

why instead of making a broad claim that contemplate everyone, do one that looks at 'underrepresented' people with greater care?

virtue-signalling pieces of shit.

>>59604320
Have you actually raised a kid while working before?

>>59605366
No but I went to college full time and had 2 part time jobs and an internship. Obviously not the same thing.

Let's lower the standards because people can't pull out.

>>59605366
No one's forcing you to have kids

>Admitting to googling (researching) shit is somehow bad
>Thinks that's an acceptable excuse for not knowing basic algorithms

>>59605902
is there a list of shit I should memorize so I can be prepared for stupid archaic interview methods? chances are I can write a fully working (albeit not perfectly optimized) implementation of any algorithm you could describe to me, within minutes. using technology to solve new problems is literally my fucking job.

instead you just want to make sure I learned the same minutiae you did in college.

>>59600909
I pass whiteboard tests easily because I've read TAOCP series and done enough exercises that you remember the material.

Bubblesort for example is used heavily in video game development. Games often bubble sort world objects by depth. There is a small performance gain to be had by drawing closer objects first, so that you can depth-cull expensive pixels behind them

Every single whiteboard test I've done goes like this:

"Implement X anon"
"Ok, how can we optimize this?"
"Can we optimize this further?"

So I just write the three most optimized versions first without them asking now since I know they're going to ask.

You can also just go through CLRS and do this too for well known algorithms like merge/insertion/bubble ect. The trick is doing exercises with it not just memorizing like you're doing flash cards or something. What the whiteboard interviewers want is to see how you reason about shit, you can get stuff wrong but they want to know your reasoning.

>>59601498
Jewggle does this to simply shelve those people and keep them away from competitors. There's tons of "distinguished engineers" at Jewggle who don't do anything and are paid basically to be storage.

Google also doesn't really have any jobs, they make mandatory listings for H1B requirements saying they have to advertise but the majority of jobs are solely through networking with all the ivy league guys recommending their friends

>>59600909
>"Oh I see you have algorithms as a skillset on your resume, could you please write a bubblesort for us"

If you can't do one of the simplest algorithms on the spot, but claim to have algorithm knowledge, then you're a liar and do not deserve the job you are interviewing for.

>>59606156
Would any interviewer actually accept bubblesort as proof of knowledge of algorithms in general?

>>59606175
No. That's why it's a starter question. The point is that lack of knowledge of it is proof of lack of knowledge of algorithms. After that they know the interview is a waste of their time so they can cut it short.

>>59600909
Whiteboard issues are great. They filter out fucking retards who spend their time copying and pasting code they don't understand and contributing to the "if it werks it werks" mentality in a workplace that results in a broken codebase.

Whiteboard interviews that don't allow pseudocode are dumb though. That's how you check knowledge of syntax, not logic.

>>59601362
Actually, you nailed it. If you have a huge list that *should* already be sorted, and just need to sanity check it is, bubblesort is better. Other algorithms will fuck the whole list and re do it. Bubble will iterate, swap maybe one, two out of order items and be done.

Can't wait they start throwing triple integrals at people. I mean, why do companies hire people who don't know basic math.

>>59606303
Wouldn't insertion sort be at least just as good in such case?

>>59600909
When whiteboard interviews become vocabulary tests - such as interviewers saying "fizzbuzz" or "bubble sort" in place of actually defining the problem - I have an issue with them. If I tell you what bubble sort is and you can't implement it though, you need to fuck right off. You have to Google fucking comparison operators? Yeah, that's too slow for me. We have deadlines.

>>59606358
Yes, it would be better.

>>59606332
you should do it only for white males, tho, otherwise it would be racist

>>59606069
>Bubblesort for example is used heavily in video game development.
I'm not a game dev but that's gotta be bullshit. Bubblesort is a terrible algorithm. It's used in interviews because it's easy to write.

>>59606069
2D games you mean, where sprite surfaces are likely to be in already-sorted order. 3D games very often use BSP trees.

>>59600909

Without actually reading the article, cause fuck that, this appears to me like snowflakes being nonconstructive. Either propose ways to improve the hiring process or just keep your feelings to yourselves.

I've been in whiteboard interview questions, and I know when I don't know something. After the interview I just go bone up on the subject, and prepare for the next interview. No need to cry about unfairness. Know your flaws. Fix them. Move on. Simple.

Its completely retarded. Any english capable human can code simple stuff pretty much without even knowing the language. Only thing I really know in C# is the syntax and I made a pretty decent discord bot for my guild, it did take a shitton of time though. Why would googling for programmers be permitted? What if you need to use a new API?

https://youtu.be/tJ01XU_A1tU

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https://youtu.be/XKu_SEDAykw

Thank fuck I chose a degree in some easy field like English. I have a lot of respect for coders who can understand this fucking shit. I'm not even joking. I couldn't even fathom learning this shit in a million years.

>>59605366
Cry a river fuck boy, I don't give a shit. Lets fuck with an entire industry cause mommy's too tired to study.

>>59601267
Fucking saved.

>>59601277
It has been...two decades since I thought about bubble sort. But just thinking about the name for a moment made me remember the algorithm.

Still, I agree it's a stupid interview question. Though providing the definition and asking for an implementation would not be stupid.

Also: pajeet copies code he doesn't understand and hopes it works. Real engineers will make sure they understand the code before pasting it, so that they can assess whether it's appropriate and make any necessary changes.

>>59602828
Why a "whiteboard"? Why not a running IDE so you can compile and test? Or an environment like Hackerrank?

>>59601326
>Depends on when. Google used to only consider PhDs. Now they're much more open.
They're still pretty much mostly PhDs and professors now. Google is like a university on steroids.

>>59606677
>What if you need to use a new API?
An API should never lack documentation.

If the API has nothing on google, the correct answer is for the company to never use that API (it's not possible to use an API without knowing the commands anyway)

>>59601072
Most important command prompt you will ever use. Learn all of the tricks for googling shit.

Whiteboard tests keep out brainlets

>>59607155
Is Becky a dude?

Would asking that end the interview?

>>59607666
no they don't, I'm a brainlet and just studied a few books of whiteboard questions, went to several interviews until I got a few where they asked questions I literally got from books so I could look super smart.

That is how I got hired.

>>59607155
God damn I'm 3 minutes into the video and I want to punch the guy on the left.

Let x = 1.
Let y = sum - x.
Binary search the array for x and y.
If not found, increment x and decrement y and search again until x >= y.
If the number is even, at the very end you can check for x=y or x = half of sum. But remember she said you cannot use the same array index twice.

>>59607155
Too lazy to do all of them, but here is my attempt at the first one.

function eightSum(inputList) {
    for (var x = 0; x < inputList.length; x++) {
        if (inputList[x] >= 8) return false;
        if (inputList.indexOf(8 - x) >= 0) return true; // Also, [x, 8-x]
    }
}

>>59607835
Ah fuck, I need to change the line with >= 0 to also check if it's inequal to x.

>>59607805
That's a pretty slow and "But remember," is not valid code.

always whiteboard in ia64 asm when they ask for psuedocode to show them how big your dick is.

>>59607896
>binary search
>"slow"

"She" didn't give a constraint on array size. Binary search is much faster as soon as you have an array of any appreciable size, except under the narrow condition that x+y=sum are very close to the array edges. It's also not really slower on the sample arrays she wrote on the board. I double checked this by writing up both in Xcode, right now, and timing each of them with optimizations on an arrays of various sizes and configurations. In the case of her arrays it's 0.000003 vs 0.000006. But on large arrays bsearch is faster by orders of magnitude.

These people have jobs at Google??? Fuck me.

>>59608223
>minorities and women in programming
>the video
Holy crap I'm at 10 minutes and I want to murder these two fucks.

I wrote and tested two-pointer AND bsearch in less time then Edgar is taking to work through the problem on a white board. "Becky" is clueless for telling Edgar binary searching would be slow. (Unless, of course, the array will always be 4 elements, or some similar tiny length.) And Edgar is an idiot for listening to her.

At least Edgar is on his knees so he can suck "Becky's" dick.

>>59608223
The arrays have a maximum integer of 8. You're doing two searches when you only need to do one. You tried to look cool on 4chan but now you're not getting the job. Sorry, kid. Better luck somewhere else, like maybe Yahoo.

>>59608809
>The arrays have a maximum integer of 8
That was not a constraint of the problem. "She" is looking for a pair of integers which = a given sum, which happens to be 8 in the example. "She" did NOT state that no integer would ever be >8.

>>59608733
You check for sums of 8 with two positive integers. Are you dumb? Of course they're going to be tiny. You expect to get lists like [1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 3, 3, 3, 3, 4, 5] most of the time?

>>59600918
Yep it's just like how blacks always pull the race card.

This just proves that ruby on rails is made by retards for retards

>>59608854
It's deductively reasoned by people who can do basic math.
Name a positive integer which, when added to the number nine, will give you 8?

>>59608870
>we're always looking for a sum of 8
8 is an example input, NOT a problem constraint.

>>59608909
The sum she gave him was 8, you doofus.

>>59601072
I do it every days. It's very normal.

>>59601277
I didn't know what bubble sort was but I've used it in c++ without looking anything up sorting my doubly linked list.

I just looked up bubble sort and realized that's exactly what I did. In a few months I'll have my BA In Game Software Development. So, excuses for being bad at their jobs as usual.


>Inb4 manchild

The real question here is: is not the way you solve it, is the way you think on solving it.
Asking you to solve a problem without a single error is just stupid, but asking you how would you solve it I think it's ok.

>>59608890
>It's deductively reasoned by people who can do basic math.
You're an idiot. Once again, 8 is a sample input and the two arrays on the board are sample inputs. None of them are constraints on the range of inputs your algorithm must deal with.

>>59608223
>>59608733
Are you guys retarded? Of course the binary search solution is going to be significantly slower. A binary search itself is plenty fast, but you would have to do one for every element, making it O(n*log(n)), which is of course slower than the O(n) solution given after it.

I was wondering the reason for asking such a simple question in an interview but apparently it's to filter out idiots like you

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>>59601072
I do it all the time. Perfectly normal.

>>59609019
Test cases are supposed to be normal use cases or edge cases designed to break shit.

>>59609046
Nah bro, I'm a 4chan poster and I hate minorities and women. I don't have a job because THEY'RE the stupid ones !!! I'm smart !!! I'M SMART !!! TURING A DUMB FAG I KNOW ALL THE THINGS ABOUT SEARCH ALGORITHMS !!!

>>59600909
Why is he a faggot? I always liked him even though I was never a huge fan of rails. He seems like a nice guy. Much more tolerable then a lot of the other tech 'celebs' these days.

>>59602656
That's more straightforward than implementing any sorting algorithm you fucking ape.

>>59609046
>Are you guys retarded? Of course the binary search solution is going to be significantly slower. A binary search itself is plenty fast, but you would have to do one for every element
No. You bsearch possible combinations that equal the input sum. bsearch does not have to compare every duplicate; two pointer does. For any given pair you're obviously not going to search for y if x was not found, further reducing the comparisons using bsearch. And you could optimize the solution by using a version of binary search that tells you WHERE the value would go in the array if not found, as that now becomes a boundary for the next bsearch since x is incrementing and y is decrementing. This further reduces the number of comparisons the CPU must make using bsearch.

Two pointer technique has a better best case scenario, but not by very much. If the answer is found near the array edges both will find the answer incredibly fast on modern hardware.

Two pointer has a vastly WORSE worst case scenario where it has to look at every single value in the array to prove no pair exists which equals sum. Meanwhile bsearch figured that shit out a long time ago.

>I was wondering the reason for asking such a simple question in an interview but apparently it's to filter out idiots like you
Says the idiot.

And before you reply: I have the code for both sitting in Xcode right now with timers. If the array is small two pointer can be 2x as fast. If the array is large, bsearch can be 100 or even 1,000x faster.

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>>59603165
>Not having a social media account is considered antisocial behavior in 2017.

How ironic.

>>59609084
>Test cases are supposed to be normal use cases or edge cases designed to break shit.
>moving the goal posts
The point is that 8 is not a constant. He should have asked about constraints on array size and input sum. But If the answers are not "really tiny" in both cases, two pointer technique is going to generally be slower than bsearch.

>>59609229
>You bsearch possible combinations that equal the input sum
The algorithm described in the video involved selecting the first element and then bsearching for a complement, then picking the next element and bsearching for its complement, etc until a correct pair is found. That is n*log(n), and it is certainly slower.

>I have the code for both sitting in Xcode right now with timers
Let's see your code then.

>>59609311
>The algorithm described in the video involved selecting the first element and then bsearching for a complement, then picking the next element and bsearching for its complement, etc until a correct pair is found.
Which is fine as long as you stop once you encounter a value > half of sum.

>That is n*log(n), and it is certainly slower.
Except it's not for the reasons I gave.

WHICH ONE IS FASTER WILL DEPEND ON THE ARRAY AND THE SUM BEING SOUGHT. But unless you can place additional constraints on the array; duplicates; sum; etc. bsearch is the better bet overall.

>>59609727
>Except it's not for the reasons I gave.
None of the reasons you gave make it anything other than n*log(n)

>WHICH ONE IS FASTER WILL DEPEND ON THE ARRAY AND THE SUM BEING SOUGHT
As the array grows in size, the two-pointer technique will scale linearly, which is the best possible complexity for this problem. The bsearch method will require doing more and more binary searches as the array grows in size, meaning it's complexity will grow linearly times the complexity of a single bsearch. This is n*log(n).

>ignored request to see code he claims to have written
Good to see you're talking out of your ass.

>>59601423
selection is the most natural way in my opinion

>>59602942
yes he fucking should

>>59605767
I went to school with a full time and a part time while raising my baby sister.
>>59605859
No one said anything about having a kid. It's about raising a kid.
>>59607182
Again. See above.

These replies are making me think about giving credit to the "women are persecuted in STEM fields" meme.

>>59609898
And nobody fucking cares. Especially not the people hiring you. Try telling them you didn't learn the shit they want because you're too busy.

People should be held to the same standard for a position regardless of their situation.

>>59609771
>None of the reasons you gave make it anything other than n*log(n)
You are the perfect example of why I hate big O notation. Because every idiot THINKS they know how to calculate big O and then they THINK that's the final say on the matter. As if instruction latency, memory access patterns, time under varying scenarios, etc. never matter. Only big O and only the worst case.

The fact that you stop searching once you hit arr[x] > sum/2 means that it's not typically going to be n*log(n). If you use binary search to establish some boundaries first (i.e. determine if there even is an answer) then it will never be n*log(n). If you squeeze the boundaries as you bsearch you reduce it even further.

The fact that you can use a binary search to skip over duplicates entirely means that for any array with many duplicates bsearch is going to murder two pointer.

>>ignored request to see code he claims to have written
I'm debating whether or not I want to comment it so your dumb ass can understand it.

>>59607805
You'd fail. She said negative numbers are possible so starting at x=1 would not necessarily find the answer.

>>59601339
rejected for a good reason

that's not a syntax issue retard

>>59610132
>that's not a syntax issue retard
But it is.
GCC these days will generate the correct code for this.

Unless you are retarded enough to think structs are some kind of reference that requires a compare function, and don't get that it's C where it's non standard, syntax.

>>59610132
== is not valid with struct in C?

>>59600909
> bubble sort

If he was asked to create a workable octtree or red-black tree implementation using pointers only, then he might have a point here. But bubble sort?

Amateur.

>>59603019
Sounds like they did you a favor.

>>59610130
It was just after that point in the video that she said there could be negative integers. I believe I mentioned this in a later post.

Establish that the answer is possible (so n*log(n) will never occur), then bsearch starting from arr[0].

>>59610207
Not in standard C but gcc (and probably clang) will generate valid code for it.
That's probably even better than memcmp, since it cares about padding.

>>59601321
Bubble sort is trivially parallelizable.

>>59603345
What a retard

>>59610246
The standard say that == is invalid on struct? It doesn't say that it does memcmp?

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>>59600909
>current job included whiteboard during interview
>crushed it
>everyone in software development is white male
>no tribesmen or pajeets in entire building
>Customer service full of women lol

This is how it should be
This is how it will stay because tech is still a meritocracy
Feels fucking good man

>>59610248
are you retarded?
bubblesort is one of the worst sorting algorithms to parallelize since it uses the output of earlier iterations all the time.
The devide and conquer strategies work WAY better for this.
Since they literally split the sorting problem into sets of smaller independant problems.

>>59604195
which tool?

>>59610275
== is only valid on basic values.
I'd have to check where exactly and how exactly it's defined in the standard, but I'm sure it's invalid for structs/unions in standard C.

>>59610207
i believe it's valid but it's a byte comparison
if you have pointers or null-terminated strings inside the struct it may evaluate to false even if the structures describe the same content

>>59607182
No hiring manager gives a fuck what you spend your free time doing. Be an autist and sit on the computer, it makes no difference.

>>59610353
when the struct got padded by the compiler, byte comparasion will include (potentially) uninitialized byte, so the compiler shouldn't generate that.

>>59609898
>No one said anything about having a kid. It's about raising a kid.

What?

Do you even realize the retarded shit that you're typing?

>>59610379
I'm referring to char arrays
for example I have a struct with a 256 elements char array and I put the same null terminated string in 2 different instances of it

the code that gcc generates will compare the whole arrays which may contain different values after the null terminator and hence evaluate to false even if the content described by the struct (the null terminated string) is the same

>>59601072
Before google, engineers had textbooks and engineering journals that they would refer to instead.

This idea that applicants need to have everything fucking rote memorized is goddamn retarded and can only be something pushed by incompetent management/executives.

>>59610288
So? It still is trivially parallelizable.

If you have 1024 elements to sort, then you can do 512 or 511 comparisons / switches in parallel.

>>59600918
Of course men want to down play this serious issue.

>>59610721
How is it a "serious" issue?

Like actually. How is it even remotely connected to gender?

>>59610385
>Hyperbole
Here I'll try too. You do know how to read context, right fucktard?
>>59609965
I agree, its one thing to say that and get the okay while someone else (male) doesn't get the same treatment. I understand their argument because I went through the same thing but I don't believe it should be used as a crutch.

>>59610748
Protip, you don't have to raise kids unless you have kids, and even then you don't have to raise them.

Same applies to siblings. Not your responsibility, technically, but if you feel as if you need to take on that responsibility then you need to find a job that you can balance appropriately.

>>59611015
You must be a libertarian.

>>59611015
>But if you feel as if you need to take on that responsibility
You would let your baby sibling go to a foster home? If yes, serious question: what the fuck is wrong with you?

>>59603423
Last couple interviews I ran went that way.

Hiring people who'd contributed for years to semi-related opensores projects meant their technical skills weren't in question as I'd read a bunch of their code already.

>>59610743
you got baited my dude

>>59605366
>Have you actually raised a kid while working before?
I'm doing it now, my wife's son is almost a year old

Thank fuck for remote dev jobs

>>59603423
I've had that happen before when I had been recommend by someone in the company I'd worked with before. The manager and team just wanted to make sure I wasn't a raging asshole but took my tech skills as a given.

Also
>difference between '==' and '===' in js for example
Holy sheep testicles, I'm glad I stay the fuck away from web browser stuff. How the fuck did JavaScript end up with a triple equal sign operator? Keep that shit away from the server side please.

>>59609185
not really?
Bubble sort
"Move number right until the next number is greater than it, repeat for next number"

>>59610275
in C it would be a compiler error
in C++ it would be a compiler error if there is no ==operator defined for that struct

>>59610677
lmao

that's a method that a poo in loo would use

>>59600918
>>59601240
>>59604320
>>59605366
Let's not forget that most women now a days don't have kids because they're busy working and partying away their youth, only to be really bitter later on when no dude wants them due to being used up and having dried up ovaries in their mid 30s.

But I guess "raising" a dog is close enough for them to hide their shame.

>>59611683
rofl, my sister in law cooks actual meals for her dog.

what the fuck is a whiteboard interview?

i fucking love it! all these normies getting pissed of because they thought their good looks and social skills would be enough to get them the job

>>59603422
you should at least be shown a visualisation of the algorithm if you don't know it imo. shows much more about you as a coder than memorizing an algorithm.

I copied that floppy
:P

>>59604195
lol u didnt have a vagina or brown enough skin

Anyone else a mathlet but can program?

>tfw will never be cs

>>59603345
>>59603371
>>59603401
I will take a pic without glasses and put it in my kikebook profile just to get normalfags like yourself labelled a mental wreck. If I make it to an interview I will buy a pair of contacts. You know very well that it is the other way around you fucking cunts, tumblr has shown you this.
Your day will come.

>>59606567
this
OP is an idiot if he's talking about 3D graphics

>>59606567
psssh maybe 20 years ago

>>59603165
asocial is not antisocial

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>>59600909
This is so fucking stupid.
If you can't walk through a bubblesort in psuedocode with a marker, then you don't know how to sort an array in any capacity and you have NO RIGHT to call yourself a software engineer.

This is literal day one shit in any programming textbook.

>>59601326
>Their tests still often boil down to culture tests. e.g. the famous "shrunken down to the size of a dime, stuck in a blender" question. It hinges on whether you've heard of the square-cube law. Never heard of it until the interview question became famous. But it's commonly taught in a variety of courses at certain universities.

As someone that works for Google these questions are banned and have been banned for years. Its all whiteboard tech questions.

>>59612621
>If you can't walk through a bubblesort in psuedocode with a marker, then you don't know how to sort an array in any capacity
what if I know a different sorting algorithm

>>59612685
But they asked for bubblesort

>>59612696
who cares, that wasn't what you said.

>>59612621
>then you don't know how to sort an array in any capacity
Python:
Ascending

list2 = sorted(list)

Descending:

list2 = list2[::-1]

Arbitrary/nitpicked:

if i in list:
    list2.append(i)

And so on. Never even heard of this "bubblesort" crap.

>>59612685
Then you should know the limitations of the algorithm and have them known.

>>59612723
write a sort function in python without using built-ins

>>59612643
why are culture tests banned?

I need your help /g/

I have an interview tomorrow for a graduate officer. It said 20 minutes will be consisted of "exercises". I asked what type of exercises and he replied:

"The exercise will be on a specialism related to the role e.g. database issue, or SQL problems etc"

I've been brushing up on my SQL, but what should I be looking at for databases issues?

Also what level of SQL would I be expected to know? It is a graduate role but I don't know what they expect.

>>59612772
>write a function in x programming language without using the language
For what purpose?

>>59601220
Really. I hire guys only those ppl who can do the following.
>Here's how merge sort works
>1. Divide array into two arrays
>2.Recursively sort the two arrays
>3.Merge the two sorted array
Given above write an algorithm, calculate a time complexity for n input instance.
Implement in any language.
Calcultate the running time and show that it satisfies whatever you calculated.

If someone can't do this. They can work for microshit.

>>59612847
library functions are not part of the language

i bet you don't even know how to reverse an array yourself

>>59604618
>using technical softcover books to do your job for you

boomers, everyone

You guys are discussing how Marxist Lenninist Society works?
What took you so long understand?
I can't bear so many pajeets in this thread.

>>59602635
>What would the expected output be in this case?
>the output of a sorting algorithm
Report this man to LinkedIn and make it so that he can never get an interview in this field again.

>>59612847
Pajeets gtfo

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Forgot thead wallpaper.

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>>59600909

>>59612883
No, their implementations are part of the given language. They're not universal, you have to learn them in the given language.

>>59613103
the methodology for reversing or sorting arrays is universal to any language

using a negative number as an array index is a stupid hack that only applies to a few high level languages and bears zero relation to reversing an array.

>>59612723
>[::-1]
why doesn't Python have a clear builtin for reversing a list instead of that abuse of slice syntax

>>59613066

>"Ah, another website totally fucking ruined unless you're using dual Xeons. I think its time for my afternoon curry and San Fran alleyway poop!"

logic puzzles have nothing to do with programming. it's literally the #1 problem with the way programming is taught.

>>59613196
>being able to solve problems has nothing to do with programming

>>59613008
kek

>>59613196
it's an exercise in problem solving, which is 99% of what software engineering is

if you can't apply your skills to a new situation, then you're no better than a failed algebra student who can't do word problems without the formula already written for them

>>59600909
Now we know why Ruby on Rails was such a piece of shit.

>>59613221
Programming today is about finding the right node.js libraries and combining them, grandpa.

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>>59612825
Someone pls halp

>>59613242
>programming is just knowing your libraries :^)

The mating call of the pajeet.

>>59612825
they expect for you to know your shit and to prove it since you applied for the position.

don't try to get a job better than you are, we don't need more flunkies in tech

>>59613272
Well i know that. I'm just asking what they would be expecting me to know as it's a graduate role.

>>59613291
If you have to ask then you can't do it.

Enjoy being blacklisted.

>>59612871
why would you ask a programmer to do calculus.

>>59613264
It kind of is though.
No job is going to have you building your own frameworks and libs from scratch. If they do, it definitely won't be by yourself.

>>59611740
you write code on a whiteboard, timed and live in front of HR. they usually ask you to solve a problem.

don't know about you, but that sounds anxiety inducing. i'd definitely fuck up even if its simple

>>59601240
>Imagine hiring a girl who can't to simple fizz buzz
Oh anon, you sweet summer child.
https://css-tricks.com/tales-of-a-non-unicorn-a-story-about-the-trouble-with-job-titles-and-descriptions/

>>59613221
Arbitrarily hard puzzles have nothing to do with programming, that's correct. The only way you would be easily able to solve these is with previous exposure to them or you were a genius. That's a fact. Extremely smart people developed these algorithms, mathematicians. They are not "think of in a few minutes" problems.

A logic puzzle is basically just a check that you paid attention in school when they taught that type of problem. It doesn't prove anything else - especially if you're allowed to psuedocode it.

If that's what you want to test then alright. But, really the test should be about toolchains and knowledge of libraries used in the position you're filling. Or solving realistic problems in the context of the position.

>>59613234
You can only do complex algebra word problems because you memorized the patterns through repetition.
Even someone with 130 IQ would not be able to come up with merge sort off the top of their head.

>>59613390
Is impostor syndrome really impostor syndrome if you're an impostor?

>>59613493
No, no it is not.

Frankly, if someone told me "I have imposter syndrome" their resume would go straight into the trash.

>>59613491
The other point being missed, is how the person reacts to being asked these questions. If the question is legitimately too easy or hard for them, and they get annoyed and hostile (it happens all the time during interviews), it tells you a ton. if they think the question is far beneath them, and they can't answer it right, it also tells you a ton about them.

If they finish it without showing any emotion, annoyance or negativity, or ask the appropriate questions when they need help, or honestly answer they can't do it, or can't do it on the spot, are all good signs during an interview.

>>59601240
>Image hiring girl who can't to simple fizz buzz or other anagram.
what girl can't into facebook or instagram stupid anon

>>59603019
My friend didn't get a job which he was incredibly qualified just because they found his twitter account.
Feels good to not have any personal information of you up on the interwebs.

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>>59602911
Of course! It clearly is the tests fault, the test is SEXIST! and RACIST! You see..
it unfairly tests for skill in ability to code, which white men are...hmm wait that doesn't seem right...
must be....
it unfairly tests how well someone is able to handle quickly coding something on the spot, white males tend to respond better to it as they deal with it bett-well they can't be better so that can't be right
it unfairly tests for if the person has memorized how to do those types of problems, of course white males do better because they have better mem-oh wait that can't be true..
it unfairly doesn't leave room for someone who is unable to solve the problem...white males are more stupid and just memorize and repeat so they do better, but they're stupid and don't deserve the job. Yes that works, there we go not racist or sexist.

>>59611118
>>59611162

No, but that's why you have to make fucking choices. It's called "sacrifice" for a reason. If you want to raise a child, you need to sacrifice some shit, you fucking mongoloids.

If you can't keep up because you have other responsibilities at home, you need to try something else. That's how it works.

I'm not agreeing with the interview methods, but saying that "having to raise children" is an excuse for not being able to do what your job requires, or to suggest that it's a women issue only is fucking retarded.

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>>59609084
Hi there, handsome

>>59606236

Ding, Ding, Ding.

If you have no ability to write the code yourself, you have no ability to distinguish good code from bad. You will copy the first thing that works, even if it's shit.

And this lack of understanding will come back to haunt you or whatever company was suckered into hiring you when things stop working and no one knows why.

>>59600909
This is the equivalent of doing a driving test without learning to start the vehicle, what the fuck is wrong with people? You don't think you should brush up on your algorithms before an interview for a programming position? If an employer asks you to write something that can even fit on a whiteboard in the first place you need to be able to do it, if you can't you are objectively unqualified for any corporate programming job.

>>59614517
No, this is more like doing a driving test in a stick shift car when you've only ever driven an automatic.

You're going to fail spectacularly because you don't even know what the 3rd pedal is for, you've never seen it after all.

>>59614542
I'd expect a driver I hire to be able to use a clutch.

>>59613048
Nice knowyourmeme filename u redditor

>>59601277
>Bubble sort is the easiest sort to implement
Doesn't know about sleep sort.

>>59600909
I'm an interviewer and I never do this. It's so painfully obvious who is capable and who isn't that I've never needed to.

>>59600909
>immediately turns to "MUH DIVERSITY!!!" as an argument

nope, take your anti-white anti-male agenda and fuck off

>>59602703
It's white, so it's bad :^)

>>59601220
But if I were to implement this sort of stuff, I wouldn't write a bubblesort. My "natural" sorting technique is a heapsort.

I don't even remember what a bubblesort is unless someone described the algorithm to me.

I could likely do quicksort, or mergesort if you gave me ten minutes, but heapsort is what makes sense to me: Define a helpful datastructure and half your job is done. I guess OOP has poisoned me.

>>59601267
The real crime is that the whole interview process is idiotic because they don't understand the reasoning behind Microsoft's riddles, or the fizzbuzz question or other similar ones.

The only POINT about FizzBuzz is to show that you can write some code. ANY code. It's a quick 5 minute weeder question.

The POINT of the Microsoft riddles is to see how people think, you're supposed to have a conversation to see how they solve problems. You don't have to get it right. You just have to be smart about how you think.

>>59601334
Knowing how sorts work is a useful skill if you are going for a job where you need to work with sorting stuff.

But knowing some basic datastructures and algorithms means that you are more likely to know the theory behind the practice. Which is a good thing.

>>59600909
>liberals think it's bad to discriminate against if you don't have the skills for the job (can't bubblesort or fizzbuzz)
>liberals think it's good to discriminate against if you are of the privileged gender or race (white heterosexual male)
When exactly the world became so fucked up?

>>59600909
what a fucking faggot. i would be able to write bubble sort even without instructions. but on a whiteboard you would get it explained to you what you're supposed to do.

>ruby on rails
AHAHAHAHAHAHA

Is this seriously true?
How do people go through whole degrees without picking up the basics?

>>59600918
>code monkeys thinking that they're engineers

>>59600909
Don't attend interviews then. Companies asking stupid, irrelevant questions is a fantastic way to figure out where a good place to work is. An interview in tech is as much for you to select your employer as employers selecting you. If that's not how it is for you, you're probably a useless cunt that needs to rethink their career.

bool swapped;

do {
    swapped = false;

    for (int i = 0; i < len - 2; i++) {
        if (arr[i] > arr[i + 1]) {
            swap(&arr[i], &arr[i + 1]);

            swapped = true;
        }
    }
} while (swapped);

>>59616722
>i < len - 2
i < len - 1

>>59613491
>Even someone with 130 IQ would not be able to come up with merge sort off the top of their head.
Literally the most trivial "divide and conquer" sorting algorithm. If that keyword doesn't tell you what to do you have algorithmic issues.

>>59609101
>Why is he a faggot? I always liked him even though I was never a huge fan of rails.
DHH = Dick Head Honcho

>>59605366
my brother in law is an engineer working and raising a kid, i live in the house in front, he gets home and does a bunch a shit, while my sister works part time, and is always "busy working and raising kids".
women whine, its just biology, when SJWism gives it weight, youve got a problem

>>59613242
so what profession is responsible for developing such libraries? starfleet officer?

or have they allbeen created in the 70s and today we just glue them togeter with electron scala ruby or haskell?

>>59606332
>Can't wait they start throwing triple integrals at people. I mean, why do companies hire people who don't know basic math.
I had one interview question where I had to do an integral to make an algorithm faster.

>>59616780
CRINGE

>>59610071
>You are the perfect example of why I hate big O notation. Because every idiot THINKS they know how to calculate big O and then they THINK that's the final say on the matter. As if instruction latency, memory access patterns, time under varying scenarios, etc. never matter. Only big O and only the worst case
You stated that the two pointer method has vastly worse worse case. You are talking out of your ass now.

>>59601091
This. I literally tell all the new devs that I hire that knowing what you need to write yourself versus what has been written before is the single most important skill for an efficient dev.

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>>59613390
>>59613493
>>59613527
She has a point though, job adverts are misleading as hell.

There's also too much of a reliance on IT in business to run the entire fucking company.

>>59612871

Office monkey never heard of merge sort before.

If that's your 1 2 3 I'd have so many follow on questions

1. Divide the array? In 2? 3? Does my array have a length property of some kind or a terminator character? What other information is passed to my function?

2. "recursively sort" What? You want me to keep dividing I presume into some sort of initial state where I have an array of two or an array of three and then apply some random comparator to my two or three elements so that in my base case I'll have a whole bunch of sorted duples/triples

3. "merge" the two sorted arrays, so If I have 4, 3, 2, 1 I'll end up with 3, 4, 1, 2 if I use the obvious way to do this, so I'd have to apply the comparator of the largest element of array 2 to the smallest of array 1.

an array of n would net me nlogn probably because I'm doing a fuckload of comparisons.

Did I pass?

>>59613291

For me they expected me to know how to write basic SQL, select a bunch of columns from a table, do a couple of conditionals, what are relationships, do an orderby, do a join. they also asked me how to implement a many-many relationship with a join table

You might want to look up "what is a stored procedure" and ask what ORM are you expected to use on the job.

>>59613385

>timed and live

fuck off, mine was just in front of the CTO. I couldn't wait to do it on the whiteboard, it's the exact same as doing it in front of a class or teaching someone how to code

>>59613163

sorted(x, reverse=True)

>>59618042
What if I just want to reverse without sorting?

>>59618135
Sorry, I'm an idiot.

reversed(x)

>>59617850
we'll call you

>>59600975
I don't want you to have to google "insert sort" as we're having a discussion about solving a problem just because I suggested it and you don't know what the fuck I'm talking about, that shouldn't happen.

FizzBuzz lets me know that you will understand the basics of solving a problem but more importantly the way that you communicate your thought process, if you can't stutter though a thought clearly I don't want you brainstorming with my team.

>rarely are part of their jobs, googling shit is.

You have no idea what working as part of a pipeline entails

I'm paying you by the hour not to google selection sort but to already know it and not be wasting my, and everybody else's time.

>>59603225
How's life in South Sudan?