"web programming is not real programming"

>>59592210
Superiority complex.

small benis

>>59592210
Because it's not, it's scripting and markup.

Because "web programmers" keep denying it

Actually modern web development is not that easy.

Because it's popular.

Everyone knows about websites, nobody knows about linear algebra and shader programming, or whatever /g/ happens to like this month. It also tends to attract the most plebeian of plebs for that reason.

>>59592256
That's because the tools are written by web developers.

>>59592243
I used to work as a back-end web developer. The web application was implemented as a long-running FastCGI process that served HTTP requests from clients through a RESTful API, and was written in C++.

Please tell me more about it is "scripting and markup".

>>59592287
Server programming is generally not what's referred to when someone talks about web development, but respect to you for doing something that actually requires a thought process.

>>59592361
>Server programming is generally not what's referred to when someone talks about web development
It is though. Front-end programming is usually referred to as UX/UI development or even design.

>>59592372
this.

>>59592210
because they make money

>>59592372
>>59592380
Except that when people talk about server backends they talk about scripting in python or php, which is easy scripting shit that requires no thought. But as I said, if you're legitimately "programming" a server backend in C++, hats off to you.

>>59592436
What the fuck is the difference if it's written in C++ or Python for fucks sake.

>>59592210
You ever try to browse a website today with your smart phone?

>Be me
>Taking a shit and browsing the web with my phone; open link to an article
>Flagship phone starts churning, web browser starts refreshing on its own, video tries to play.
>Scroll down article, but video still loads an ad and plays anyway
>Webpage scrolls back up, and reloads again by itself
>Phone now getting hot trying to churn out this cancerous website
>Turn off phone, shit on the floor. Walk out.

Web designers turned me into pajeet poo in the loo.

They don't know anything about optimization. Web designers are nothing more than a GED construction worker. Programmers are college educated architects.

One knows the science and theory, the other doesnt (web designer)

>>59592484
you can't script in C++, it's compiled (i.e. not for kiddies)

>>59592521
Do you even program ?

>>59592507
Is every website like this? I think you need a new phone anon

>>59592521
What's even the point of being elitist about whether a language compiles or not?

>>59592532
>>59592539
baited

>>59592210
because it's not.

>>59592436
Posters like you should be banned for spewing the most retarded gatekeeper shit.

You're "legitimately" programming regardless of using C++ or Python you fucking ape.

>>59592507
>browse a website today with your smart phone
>this is how anon believes he's going to make a brilliant point
jfc go back to school slut

>>59592533
Every fucking news website has ads that move the text around when they load.

>>59592563
> not using archived news, or at the very least blocking the ads
Get a hold of yourself mate

>>59592581
The point was that web designers can't make websites that aren't total shit.

>>59592436
> not writing exclusively in assembly
C++ kiddies are genuinely stupid

>>59592602
Shit point lad

>>59592557
Go to any news site. Load up your task manager and see how much your CPU will spike.

It's not just on smart phones.

>>59592210
Web dev is still pretty primitive. Basically still using gotos (redirects) for everything.

>>59592210
[math]\usepackage{listings}
\lstloadlanguages{[5.2]Mathematica}

\begin{document}

\begin{lstlisting}
Sum[1/n^2, {n, 1, Infinity}] ;
\end{lstlisting}[/math]

>>59592210
Here is the gestalt of how modern webdev works:

It's 90% marketing and 10% technical. The goal is to just pull a slot lever and hope for a jackpot then get out before it all collapses in on itself. None of us will be talking about webdev in 5 years because it won't exist

>>59592256
That's only because you need to learn a new framework and rewrite your entire "app" every week.

>>59592718
What will take its place Mr. Jones?

>>59592287
>back-end web developer
>>59592372
>It is though.
Haven't you heard? Serverless web apps are "in" right now.

>>59592719
No, it's because modern web development is a subfield of distributed systems.

You'd need to consider multiple server instances communicating with eachother, front-end and back-end web caches and freshness, CDN technologies like Akamai etc.

It's no longer just a client talking to a server.

HTML and CSS are merely ways of formatting text files.

>>59592761
99% of web devs don't know about that shit and 99% of websites don't need that shit. That's also traditionally the responsibility of the sysadmin, unless they've fucked up the job descriptions recently.

Your standard WebAppr website only needs CloudFlare and one of the standard CDN providers for your JS libraries and shit.

>>59592521
If you don't know what you're doing when programming things that need to be scaled it's almost always better to do it in C++. It's just so much faster, much more noob friendly.

>>59592830
>99% of web devs don't know about that shit
Wrong, 99% of /g/ doesn't know. But most web developers do, because they need to take care of it.

>99% of websites don't need that shit.
99% of websites run on various cloud services, such as Azure or Amazon, where you definitively need to consider things like freshness and caching effects.

>That's also traditionally the responsibility of the sysadmin, unless they've fucked up the job descriptions recently.
What hipster startup web company even has a system admin anymore? They all use CI/CD and push directly to production somewhere in the """cloud"""

>>59592911
>>59592830
I mean, most of /g/ doesn't even know what a websocket is or what WebRTC is, and yet they think they are knowledgeable enough to criticise web development.

It's some serious Dunning-Kreuger on this board.

Because JavaScript is garbage and the people who keep shitting out frameworks are the same people who would build a house on quicksand

>>59592210
It can be real programming. Complex client side interaction; AJAX; server side code that does a lot more than just customize some HTML.

But a lot of it is not.

Worse, a lot of it would qualify as real programming if real programmers produced it. Instead it's bloated shit that slows down modern CPUs which are literally supercomputers. The ARM chips in a modern smartphone can out run the early Crays, but get bogged down with Pajeet's ad tracking and popup scripts.

You have to be a special kind of idiot of a programmer to slow down a multi-billion instruction per second cpu with ads.

>>59592557
>python is so much easier than c++
>python is just as legitimate as c++
Choose one and only one.

>>59592533
Not the anon you're responding to but mobile websites are generally laggy unusable pieces of shit. In my personal experience (anecdotal I know) it's usually easier to just force the desktop version.

>>59593125
python is even more legitimate because it gets the job done faster, providing more value for your company and letting you focus on important things

>>59593164
>python is even more legitimate because it gets the job done faster,
>python
>"faster"
Python is slow as fuck.

Oh, I know you meant faster in terms of productivity, but that's often not true either. Spend some time in code competitions:

* Sometimes it's faster to write the solution in Python. Though that narrows when using languages like C# which are still faster performing.
* Often the dev time between languages is negligible. The dev time between developers of varying rank is FAR greater. Better devs are simply faster at modeling and coding the solution.
* And then there are the times when the Python solution takes much longer to code because you have to work to try and meet a performance threshold that the C++ guy met on his first try. I've seen Python and Java (Java is sloooow; sometimes it gets beat by Python) guys spend hours to solve something a C++ guy solved in 30m because they can't tweak their code enough to stay under the time limit.

Front-end web developer here. You're right, it's not real programming, which is why I choose it. My background is in design, I could do "real programming", but I'd rather do this.

>>59593356
No you can't.

File: Girls.png (490KB, 449x401px) Image search: [Google]

490KB, 449x401px

>>59593356
>i could be a dr. but i chose to be a nurse
>i could own the company but i chose to be an employee
>i could do real programming but i chose graphic design

>>59593417
Whatever makes you feel better, already said I'm not doing real programming. People have different interests, not everyone wants to be an autist staring at lines of code all day. I get to spend most of my time and dealing with UX and get paid pretty well for it.

>>59593356
desu I respect that. I can't get my head around stuff like Angular2+ngrx/Store and the whole functional programming JavaScript meme, so clearly you're doing something right

>>59592436
Basically youre saying lets use the worst language out there so it will make us feel like we have accomplished something. Stop reinventing the wheel

>>59593744
>fastest language
>most memory efficient language
>"worst language"
Priorities like that are why there's so much bloated shit in the world today.

Everything popular is hated in /g/

Ok, fine, you can FizzBuzz on haskell or rust, you are a "real programmer" now anon. Good luck finding a living with that.

Web dev is popular because once you learn it, the potential for earning money is really good.

The only real problem on web dec right now is its giving birth to a hipster framework every week, specially on the js stack.

>>59593164
>he fell to the python meme

lol @ butthurt web babbies in this thread
install elixir

I work with OutSystems.

Am I falling for the low-code meme?

>>59594045
>elixir
>not gentoo
the answer is always gentoo