How long until we just call it "SystemD"?

>>59477279
How long until you just install a systemd-free distro (or replace it yourself) if you really care.
I recommand OpenRC (Gentoo based distros) or Runit (VoidLinux)

gentoo doesnt have this problem

install gentoo

>>59477279
why would you call kernel after something that runs in userspace?

If you don't use systemd you're a cuck

>>59477332
>>59477333
>>59477338
Fucking memers like you always forget the fact that the most popular distro, without systemd is PCLinuxOS.
Gentoo can have systemd anyway as it's a metadistro.

>>59477279
I don't get the hate for systemd.
I'm using arch, systemd was the default init system, so I have no reason to replace it.
It does it's job just fine. If there's a better alternative I might switch, but right now I just don't see the point

> inb4 muh cia niggers

>>59478156
Only those with something to hide are concerned about privacy. Nothing to hide so nothing to fear.

How mad can you keep getting at linux for using x over y despite no one using it on desktop anyway?
Does it make you VM running shitter or what?

>>59478168
nah, thats a stupid thing to say. Thats like saying you never close your door, because you've got nothing to hide.

You must be the funny guy on facebook.

>>59478199
>implying i don't live in a cave

>>59477279
Actually it's GNU/SystemD/Linux.

>>59478156
Its more than just an init system.

>Poettering described systemd not as one program, but rather a large software suite that includes 69 individual binaries

>in addition to the systemd init daemon, includes the daemons journald, logind and networkd, and many other low-level components.

Red Hat's basically taken over the whole Linux ecosystem. Nice

>>59477332
Would you recommend Manjaro OpenRC?

>>59478156
It's an unsecure piece of shit with a massive attack surface.

>Subject: Headsup: systemd v228 local root exploit
http://www.openwall.com/lists/oss-security/2017/01/24/4

Just switch to openrc senpai. It's pretty easy to do on Arch and people have some maintained repos for it.

>>59479696
I'm not running a server, so "massive attack surface" doesn't bother me too much.

Switching to something else is just a lot of effort for little noticeable gain

>>59479790
Does code quality concern you at all? Systemd has a horrible design. There was a time when this command would literally crash systemd.

NOTIFY_SOCKET=/run/systemd/notify systemd-notify ""

https://www.agwa.name/blog/post/how_to_crash_systemd_in_one_tweet

By design, systemd is far too complex and very prone to bugs. At this point in time, it's more accurate to think of it as a higher level kernel than an init system.

>>59479855
Sure it matters, I wish everything was coded neatly, using haskell or rust or whatever.

The point is that every major distro uses systemd and replacing it as a user is a hassle. So if the arch developers decided to switch to something else, then sure I'll go with it, but I won't go out of my way to fiddle with such an important part of my os

>>59480004
Every major distro uses systemd because it makes the maintainers life easier. It's not because it's better software.

>but I won't go out of my way to fiddle with such an important part of my os
That seems awfully complacent. You've never messed with a different bootloader or compiled a different kernel before? It takes like 10 minutes of your time to switch.

>>59480101
SystemD is fine

>>59478665
if you're going that route, install openrc on arch

>>59477279
How long before you stop buying into fud?

>>59479855
I don't actually know how much code is being created for systemD but I would suppose that a lot of code is being written and a lot of bugs are to be found.

imagine if you looked at 69 different programs that were as new and under as much development as systemD

do you think you would have a similar attack surface?

I suppose it would be smaller, just based on a shared code for multiple parts...

but then again the other 68 parts probably don't matter as much as PID1 which shouldn't have glaring bugs like you described.

>>59481458
I'm too intelligent to install Arch. Can I do this on Antergos?

>>59481649
VOID

>>59478156
The CIA is really on their game today

Not gonna lie, former SystemD user here. This is fucking hilarious watching SystemD crash and burn. But in all seriousness we can't let this this daemon get PID 1.

I was out of the loop for few decades, why does the hivemind hate systemd again?

I recall something about binary formats.

>>59481894
binary log files that can't be read by old simple tools, but can be read by new tools but you have to have the tool to read the log

don't want to learn a different tool. too hard

>>59479696
Local. That's laughable, but use what you want.

>>59481744
Isn't it too hipster?

>>59482074
systemd comes with an http server always enabled and does bullshit things over the network such as automatically connecting to the google dns if it can't connect to any of your dns's.

>>59477279
Faggit

>>59478168
My bank info, company info, and other documents that people can use to fabricate my identity are things that I want to hide.

How many people don't have these things? How many people have "nothing" to keep from other people?

I would expect that most people have information that they do not want exposed in a way that can be gathered and used by malicious people.

Everyone should be concerned about privacy.

Windows doesn't have systemd.

>>59482400
But it has Windows.

We're looking to trade up, not down.

>>59481649
>too intelligent for arch
gentoo, slack, lfs

You can still remove systemd from Debian but who knows for how long.

>>59482660
https://devuan.org/

>>59482711
I'm hoping they come out of beta soon.

>>59480101
Not using the distro mainteiner repos is bad for security, that's why aur are praised. I'd suggest to go for a systemd free distro like void, sabayon or gentoo

>>59482542
I wish I could install Gentoo

>>59482711
>>59482943
I say they'll be ready in april.

>>59483096
You can install any distro and replace the init.

>>59478168
So because you have nothing to hide you don't care about privacy?
Does it mean if you have nothing to say you don't care about free speech?

>>59483094
>aur
>distro maintainer
MY SIDES

>>59483199
No because 99.999% of them only provide packages that hard-depend on systemd.

It's a system where everyone gets the D. Everyone.

>>59483289
Seems like you can use OpenRC on Arch for example: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/OpenRC

>>59483096
sure you can
https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Sakaki%27s_EFI_Install_Guide
literacy and a bit of patience are the only requirements

If systemd had just been an interchangeable init system it wouldn't be
so problematic. It's the scope creep and mess of poorly-defined
interdependencies that are truly shocking. Take logind, for
example. When looking at how to implement XDG_RUNTIME_DIR for
non-systemd inits, I couldn't find any actual specification for how to
do this. That's because there isn't one, just some loosely-worded
descriptions; it only exists in the systemd implementation. And the
semantics of it are very poor indeed; it hasn't been developed with
safety, security or flexibility in mind. We'll come to regret adopting
this since the poor design decisions are likely to become entrenched.

And more recently, there have been several reports of unbootable
systems. That's unconscionable, and a serious break with Debian's
traditionally solid support for backward compatibility. Here, existing
supported systems have had that support dropped on the floor. With
sysvinit great effort was taken never to break existing configurations,
and that appears to have been lost. Introducing dependency-based boot
took over two stable cycles; optional in one, default in the next,
mandatory after that. That could have been reduced certainly, but the
point is that time was taken to ensure its correctness and robustness
(and in the beginning, it did need work, so the wait was worthwhile).
This has not occurred with systemd, which has been made the default yet
is still not ready for production use.

>>59483473
Really only because of AUR. Arch also tries its best to pretend that anything that's not systemd is evil and is a virus that will kill your system (they didn't have that problem until they adopted it, coincidence?). Manjaro has much better support for arch without systemd than systemd itself, but of course what can be done in manjaro can be done in arch.

>>59483903
>Arch also tries its best to pretend that anything that's not systemd is evil and is a virus that will kill your system (they didn't have that problem until they adopted it, coincidence?)
Wait, where did anyone say that? On the page I linked ,it just says that OpenRC is not officially supported on Arch.

>>59483946
It used to be that the wiki contained complete information about using openrc on that page. Now it's hidden beyond 10 linked pages that all say that openrc should never been used under any circumstances and shit. That's just one of the way the systemd cabal is trying to take over the world.

>>59484027
What if i tell you that openrc is bigger trash than any hipster shitfest you have against systemdick? It's over.

>>59484253
I would ask how much is the pay and where I should apply because I would be jealous of your low-effort job.

>>59481840
systemd is stable as fuck and there haven't been any security concerns

/g/ is just dumb and trying to be contrarian to seem intelligent

i have servers that haven't rebooted for 5+ years

init systems are *not fucking important*

>>59484315
(((You)))

>>59484306
This is what retards like you deserve.

File: 1480359052481.jpg (5KB, 200x200px) Image search: [Google]

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>>59484315 (faggot)
Go to bed, Lennart.

how long till windows 11

>>59482101
That's not bullshit at all

>>59484731
>leaking private information to a third party without your knowledge or permission is not bullshit at all

>>59479696

>It's an unsecure piece of shit
>posts link to a thing that was fixed

So how about Linux having escalation vulnerabilities that lasted 10 years? I guess Linux is much worse that systemd. Post proof of your claims in the source of systemd or shut the fuck up.

itt: mindless muh unix philosophy drones who know nothing about linux

GNU's
Not
Unix

>>59484766
Holy shit how poor is your understanding of the way the internet works if you think domains you request have ever been private information?

>>59484823
0.2 rupees are now in account pajeet! thankful for kindly do the needful!

>>59477279
Hey why not, they've got a duck on the logo, make it systemDuck

>>59482101
Where is that server? The ports are closed btw.

>>59486349
0.2 rupees in account pajeet!

>>59478156
Listen CIA nigger, we don't like it because it's huge and we didn't need it in the first place.

We never reboot, so boot time is a pointless metric. Init worked great.

Systemd uses a lot of resources on a small machine. It's averaging several percent at all times on my CHIP.

That's unacceptable, but I think Linux is just about done with on embedded at this point, too much bloat.

>>59482013
Also:

>huge
>never finished
>the spec is the code (ugh)
>I found out Poettring's parents are communists and so is he

>>59484253
Not him but I'd ask for proofs and for systemd to be stable before adopted.

It's beta quality at best, and Lennart isn't even telling us what he plans to subsume next with his shit software.

Alpine linux
Slackware

>>59486493
Use something else if you don't like it. Is it hard?

>>59486584
I already use init, but I enjoy ripping Lennart's beta shitware a new asshole at every opportunity.

Why bother with systemd? It's spyware, and beta quality spyware at that. Also it's very resource intensive and filled with bugs and security holes.

>>59486584
Since more and more packages are depending upon it, it may be difficult in the future.

>>59482074
>local root exploit in an """init""" system
>acceptable

>>59484779
Linux is a kernel and thus will unavoidably have bugs like that. However, systemd is some mysterious massive feature creep with security issues that no one is really sure what it does. I'll just stick to simple init systems like OpenRC.

>>59478156
From what I understand, the biggest problem is that it's slowly incorporating more and more key software needed to make linux work into itself. This makes it very difficult to replace for most people, so what would happen if the project sold out to a government or Google? Do you think most people would suddenly go through all the hassle of learning and setting up a free system? Or would most people be ok with a few, small binary blobs at the root of most of their OS in exchange for convenience?

systemd is working hard to make itself irreplaceable by doing too much too conveniently. This smells like a trojan horse for free software to me. If they continue to get bigger and then sell out they could put the movement towards free software years behind where it is now. Then you may as well use windows.

Here's a post I found by people who may know more than me: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/21616608

systemd is very shady software, but if you don't care about a bigger, down the line picture for free software then there's no convincing you to not use it.

Is VOID linux a good option? It uses runit instead systemd

>>59488425
local root exploits are possible in a lot of binaries, anon, and those flaws go unnoticed for years

systemd has only had 16 exploits in eight years and each one has been discovered and fixed promptly

systemd is also free software and is RMS approved, so basically you're just being a gigantic whiny contrarian about something that doesn't matter to the Linux kernel and the free software movement

>>59488775
systemd is completely free software and RMS approves of it

you're just one of those nerds who believe in superstition and rumors about computers and muh unix messageboard philosophy

>>59488925
Anything that runs on PID1 should be more secure and better coded than your average piece of software. The fact that an empty string once crashed it doesn't give me faith in the coding abilities of Poettering and co.

Free software or not, systemd is bloat with a bunch of crap I don't need. OpenRC is simple and it works. It's been around for 9 years, and I don't believe it's had a single exploit, so I'll stick with it.

>>59477279
How long until you stop complaining about systemd?

>>59488996
systemd is more secure and better coded than your average piece of software though? and what difference does it really make if it's running in PID1 when you're talking about exploits that allow any binary to gain Root?

do you think there's some conspiracy that's forcing everyone to use it? there isn't, it's better than the system it replaced, anon. come off your contrarian high horse

>>59489043
>systemd is more secure and better coded than your average piece of software though?
Crashed by an empty string.

>and what difference does it really make if it's running in PID1 when you're talking about exploits that allow any binary to gain Root?
It's not just specifically gaining root access. If something goes wrong with systemd, your whole machine can crash as opposed to just the one program.

>do you think there's some conspiracy that's forcing everyone to use it?
Maybe, maybe not. I find this argument most irrelevant either way.

>there isn't, it's better than the system it replaced
It might be better than sysinvit (which it replaced), but not OpenRC.

>>59477279
It's really called GNU/SystemD

>>59488996
cool. That variety is why we have open source.

I like how fast SystemD boots my laptop, and my security needs on that thing are minimal.

>>59489130
OpenRC with parallel enabled boots in like 5 seconds for me.

>>59489160
Cool. I'll put it on my list of things to play with. Maybe I'll get to it next summer.

I wish I was joking.

>>59489101
find a security sploit then, lol

here's the thing: i never hear actual software engineers complain about systemd

i hear a lot of losers on message boards cry about it though, which is really just a meme from people who can't read C as well as they can read shell scripts

basically the anti-systemd crowd is the modern equivalent of an illiterate mob with pitchforks attacking something new that they don't understand

y'all just in an echo chamber full of other clueless nerds

>>59488905
Yes it is.

>>59478156
It's pretty much the next xorg

>>59489242
alright cool. I mostly stuck with ubuntu but when I discovered crunchbang I've always wanted to get deeper into more obscure shit. Gonna setup an openbsd email server at home and try out VOID linux on another PC

>>59489197
Enjoy your buggy crapware.
https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTYwMzg
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1167044
https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2015/02/msg00010.html
https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/4234

I've given plenty of seasonable arguments against systemd in this thread. And there are plenty of alternatives like runit or openrc that are less buggy, less intrusive and easier to use. It's time to wake up from the Poetterring brainwashing and get yourself a simple, elegant init system.

>>59489277
Nice sans-systemd setup. I like the attention Void's been getting around here.

>>59489281
all those issues were fixed immediately lmao

did you even read any of those

the anti-systemd crowd isn't interested in being reasonable, are they

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>>59489281
Heh this is the guy behind systemd. What a doofus. He looks like the smug cunt computer science graduate who got good connections and gets opinionated over his work and would easily fall in line with some government if they twisted the arms to help him do whats he wanted that benefits them.

>>59489328
The fact that some of these bugs even occurred is unacceptable. Obviously you didn't read them. Crashing systemd with

NOTIFY_SOCKET=/run/systemd/notify systemd-notify ""

is completely unacceptable and should have never made it out of the alpha phase.

>>59489352
lol yes there was a bug that was promptly fixed several years ago, ergo never use this software!

are you even aware of how many severe bugs are in the linux kernel at any point in time?

it's a massive amount anon, you're still crying over what amounts to exactly nothing

you're very much missing the forest for the trees

>>59489372
There's a difference between a trivial bug that should have been caught immediately during development and a complicated exploit. Stop conflating the two and misrepresenting my argument.

>>59489382
Holy shit is this real? This is exactly what I mean by buggy crapware. Systemd has too many things like this that pop up in its history.

Is alpine viable for use on desktop? It says it can do gentoo-style source installs, does that work well and how do the compile options (e.g. USE flags) work?

>>59489391
you don't have an argument

you're crying that an empty string crashed a program two years ago and apparently this means something important about Linux

you're just a message board shitposter with an axe to grind over something pointless that you barely understand

>>59489418
Average systemd shill everybody. Is it any wonder that conspiracy theory abound when that's all the pro-systemd side can muster?

>>59489418
>two years ago
It happened in late 2016 retard.

The point was that it is one of the many examples of poor coding quality from the systemd devs that should have been caught during the development but was instead pushed into an official release. And yes, consistently poor quality code is a very good reason not to use a piece of software.

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>it just werks

>>59489430
You're right. I actually work for the CIA and we almost took over FREE SOFTWARE but brave PALADINS OF THE UNIX PHILOSOPHY stopped our evil plots by linking bug reports (that were actually our backdoors) in technology forums.

Brilliant as always, anti-systemd crowd. May your pitchforks ever tilt at windmills

>>59478168
>yes goyim don't care about your privacy
And you call yourselves /pol/ ?
>>59489400
>>59489382
Shit like this is way too common on systemd.
>>59489415
If you want Gentoo, use Gentoo.
Alpine is meant to be a binary distro.
>>59489418
You are a fucking CIA nigger, shoo.
That's just one example of their shitty auditing practices.
>>59477279
When Slackware falls, then we will call it systemd/Linux.

>>59489459
Alpine has fuckall packages in its distro so augmenting it with source installs (it's significantly easier to package source) would allow it to have a viable core of packages available.

>>59489442
>finding bugs is indicative of poor code quality

lolno. dumb message board meme from obvious non-programmers

the quality of software is in the architecture, the code maintenance, and the support

finding a bug actually has very little to do with software quality

>>59489482
Okay you are trolling me for sure at this point. That's roughly 3 times that you've sidestepped the central crux of my argument which is that these simple bugs should have never occurred in the first place.

>>59489482
>finding a bug actually has very little to do with software quality
What about mission-critical bug after mission-critical bug?

>>59489482
Finding many bugs, that are subsequently marked as "Not a bug", or ignoring them entirely is indicative of poor development. The developers behind systemd are notorious narcissistic assholes.

>>59489502
no, the problem with the central crux of your argument is that you don't have an argument at all

software has bugs anon, that's not an argument? the bugs get fixed, new features get put in, more bugs get found, ad infinitum?

you're clueless as to how actual software engineering works, that's the problem here

>>59489512
we've been finding mission critical bugs in linux for almost thirty years now

like lol you people should go back to a non-programmer technology board where your poorly formed opinions matter, like Ars

non-hackers get out

>>59489533
>we've been finding mission critical bugs in linux for almost thirty years now
That's not an argument according to yourself. Either you hold your fallible software to the same standards as the rest, or gtfo.

You might notice that the legacy Init system has no bugs! Why, you may ask? Because it was just a pile of shell scripts that were super brittle and hard to maintain and broke so often that there was no point in even filling out bug reports

Systemd is real software, which is why there have been bugs (but seriously not very many), which is why you rednecks are getting confused, I think

>>59489547
sysvinit had little bugs because it did one thing, and did it well.
When it broke, it was easy to find out where.
Contrasted to systemd, where if it breaks you have absolutely NO idea where it breaks, and have to rely on Red Hat poetterware devs to fix it.
Even then, comparing sysvinit to systemd is such a stupid thing that I don't even.
Compare it to Runit or OpenRC and then your CIA nigger kind wouldn't stick out so much.

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How can i configure OpenRC to cobtrol my laotop screen saver when the lid is closed and on battery? LOL initlets BTFO

>Linux -> System D
>SystemD OS
>System DOS
>DOS

We've come full circle

>>59481620
>imagine if you looked at 69 different programs that were as new and under as much development as systemD
>do you think you would have a similar attack surface?
No, it will be much smaller if designed orthogonally and abstracted properly. Systemd is nothing like that, this everything-integrated-into-everything architecture is a contraption.

And it's not something to be dismissed as theoretical/academical/not relevant to casual usage. It's a ticking time bomb that WILL cause immense problems several years ahead.

>>59489588
Why the fuck do you want your init to do that you stupid nigger.
Use acpid, that's what systemd does anyways.

>>59489571
>Systemd is software
>Software has bugs
>Bugs are bad
>Therefore we shouldn't use Systemd

yes, yes, compelling argument, let us never use any software on our computers, or update anything

(is it easy for you to fix kernel bugs? or do you rely on the kernel maintainers for that?)

>>59489628
>Why the fuck do you want your init to do that you stupid nigger.
Why indeed do we want our init system to do lots of non-init things systemd does

File: 2017-03-19 23.35.24.jpg (18KB, 857x126px) Image search: [Google]

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>>59489661
>>59489635
Thats the joke :^)

>>59489635
Nice strawman CIA nigger.
Not even close to my argument.
>(is it easy for you to fix kernel bugs? or do you rely on the kernel maintainers for that?)
The kernel is the kernel, it's complicated software and there isn't really a way around that.
Init does NOT need to be complicated software, at all. It's completely different.

>>59489698
Actually the init system is complicated software, and your shitty bash scripts were holding Linux back

systemd is life famalam

>>59489698
Systemd is not just init. It unifies, in fewer lines of code, everything that is related to starting services and managing session groups: user login, cron jobs, network services (inetd), virtual TTY management… Having a single system to handle all of that allows us to remove a lot of cruft, and to use less memory on the system.

>>59489712
>bash
more complicated than
>C
You are retarded.
>init is complicated
No, init needs to do 2 things, start the services, and reap orphan processes.
That can be done in about 7-13 lines of C.

>>59489698
Systemd is well designed. It was conceived from the top, not just to fix bugs, but to be a correct implementation for the base system services.

> Systemd makes the boot process much simpler, entirely removing the need to specify dependencies in many cases thanks to D-Bus activation, socket activation, file/inotify activation and udev integration.
>Systemd can handle the boot process from head to toe, without needing to use any of the existing shell scripts.
>Systemd is straightforward. The command-line interface is probably the best existing for service management. The unit file format (like .desktop or “ini” files) is completely declarative, can be parsed using standard tools, and is a breeze to maintain.
>Systemd unit files, unlike SysV scripts, can usually be shipped by upstream, or at least shared with other distributions (already more than 1000 existing unit files in Fedora) without any changes, the Debian specifics being handled by systemd itself.
>Systemd is incredibly fast (1 second to boot). It was not designed with speed in mind, but doing things correctly avoids all the delays currently incurred by the boot process.
>The transition plan is easy, since existing init scripts are treated as first-class services: scripts can depend (using LSB headers) on units, units can depend on scripts. More than 99% of init scripts can be used without a modification.

>>59489712
>the init system is complicated software
yes
>shitty bash scripts were holding Linux back
yes, it needed atomicity, consistency, predictability and much more

But this thing it not an init system, and it will hold it even more when it will grow, due to its horrible design. This is technical debt in its purest form, return over investment will be negative on this one.

>>59488775
Thanks, anon. Your post was brief and clear, I now know a valid reason instead of throwing me a link to a link where it says muh UNIX philosophy. They're not mutually exclusive since systemd is eating everything up, but now I'm more wary. I'll switch to Devuan or some shit whenever it gets way too out of hand.

>>59489735
Systemd uses control groups to ensure that any service, regardless of its state, can be shut down properly.
Systemd extends the logging features of the system in many ways with journald, and can remain integrated with the existing rsyslog daemon. Logs are in a structured format, attributed to filename, line of code, PID and service. They include the early boot (starting from initramfs). They can be quickly filtered and programatically accessed through an efficient interface.
Systemd’s virtual TTY management allows real multi-seat support, and revoking access to input devices on session switch.
Systemd can trivially add security settings to a service without any need to patch it: user/group change, chroot, private network, private /tmp, read-only access to parts of the tree, tcp wrappers, filtering system calls, ?NoNewPrivileges (kernel feature to avoid privilege changes), limiting effective capabilities, limiting whatever the kernel provides in an integrated manner (device bandwidth, CPU usage, memory usage, OOM settings, nice levels, timer slack, ulimits…)
Systemd’s centralized service startup and monitoring makes it much easier to setup high-availability using software like heartbeat or pacemaker.
Systemd ships a growing number of useful, unified command-line interfaces for system settings and control (timedatectl, bootctl, hostnamectl, loginctl, machinectl, kernel-install, localectl). In Debian, they use the existing configuration files without breaking compatibility.
In addition to command-line interfaces, Systemd provides a D-Bus API to control service management and access system settings, as well as bindings to do that from Python, node.js, php, lua, Qt… GNOME is relying on these services, and it is likely for KDE and Xfce to use pieces of it in the near future. They are not specific to systemd per se, but so far it is the only implementation.

>You lost because your system sucked and ours is better.

>>59489759
(You)

>>59489759
obvious samefag from a butthurt neckbeard losing an argument

i win. we win. systemd is here forever bitches

>>59489767
All of this and more is handled by everything else.
Check and mate.

>>59489783

Systemd is a lively project with dozens of developers from various companies, including Red Hat, Samsung and Intel. It integrates contributions from even more individual contributors: to this date, 438 authors, with 63 having at least 10 commits. It can also be noted that two of the Debian maintainers have commit permissions.

Other distributions who switched to systemd were also confronted to a lot of controversy before the switch. After it became clear that rivers didn’t turn into blood, the complaints have only been sporadic.

Systemd’s upstream is very accommodating to distributors. They are taking a lot of Debian’s needs into account, even though it has not yet been decided to make it the default.

Systemd developers participate to a lot of conferences, they hold regular hackfests and always ask for feedback on their plans from downstreams (including Debian) before going ahead with them.

Systemd ships high quality documentation, including manual pages for all tools and configuration files, as well as design documents and administration tutorials.

>>59489783
Where do you think private /tmp is handled in init, anon. Why do you make things up on the internet to support an argument that your side lost four years ago, nigga

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When can I flash systemd on to my BIOS?

>>59489727

It has a fucking webserver and fireball. It's. A fucking scheme.

I was thinking about switching to Linux, either BunsenLabs or Arch. I still don't really understand what systemd is other than that it's bad and lets government agents look into my anus. What do? I already ordered a new hard drive to install Linux on.

>>59486428
gotta use Alpine, my friend

>>59489860
Systemd can run without any configuration change in a virtual machine or a container. It will automatically skip unwanted services.
Systemd provides full watchdog support. If configured to do so, PID 1 will enable the watchdog and will perform the watchdog notifications itself. Suitably configured services use systemd as the watchdog, and notify it regularly to be considered alive. In this way, the whole system is supervised, with the hardware supervising systemd, and systemd supervising the rest.

Systemd can be used used inside the initramfs (see dracut on Fedora), which means the same code serves an additional purpose, and there's less stuff to maintain. It can also hand control back to the initramfs at shutdown, making it possible to cleanly unmount the root filesystem even in very complicated, stacked setups.
Systemd is introspectable and easy to debug: in addition to the ability to provide debugging output and a debugging shell much earlier in the boot process than other boot systems can, systemd features command-line and GUI tools to debug the state of individual services and understand precisely why they fail to work correctly.

Systemd is moving strongly in the direction of configuration-less system (i.e. “empty /etc/”). So /etc/fstab might be empty on a system with a GPT partition table, with partitions mounted in appropriate places based on their type id. This means that the configuration of the common one-machine-one-disk setup becomes even simpler.

>Basically this system is great and /g/ is full of newbs who don't really understand Linux

>>59489897
Im gonna use VOID just join the /g/ meme OS militia. I dont trust some smugfuck from guatemala working with a company that contracts to CIA niggers

>>59489727
Every single one of those things already worked without systemd, and they worked just fine.
>less memory
Not even close to true.
dcron takes up less memory than systemd timers and syslogd takes less memory than systemd-journald. I could go on.
>59489739
> Systemd makes the boot process much simpler, entirely removing the need to specify dependencies in many cases thanks to D-Bus activation, socket activation, file/inotify activation and udev integration.
Every single one of those things can be done by other init systems, without needing to be part of them.
>Systemd can handle the boot process from head to toe, without needing to use any of the existing shell scripts.
>Systemd is straightforward. The command-line interface is probably the best existing for service management. The unit file format (like .desktop or “ini” files) is completely declarative, can be parsed using standard tools, and is a breeze to maintain.
>Systemd unit files, unlike SysV scripts, can usually be shipped by upstream, or at least shared with other distributions (already more than 1000 existing unit files in Fedora) without any changes, the Debian specifics being handled by systemd itself.
I suppose (not really though), but service files should be handled by the distribution.
>Systemd is incredibly fast (1 second to boot). It was not designed with speed in mind, but doing things correctly avoids all the delays currently incurred by the boot process.
Runit boots faster than systemd by 10x.
>The transition plan is easy, since existing init scripts are treated as first-class services: scripts can depend (using LSB headers) on units, units can depend on scripts. More than 99% of init scripts can be used without a modification.
Why the fuck would I use it then?
>>59489814
/etc/profile
mkdir -m0700 /tmp/$USER
Stupid CIA nigger.
>>59489897
Use what you want when starting out, you will see why systemd is shit in due time.

>>59489897
honestly, if you're running a CPU made after 2011, you're fucked anyways

>>59489950
that's really not a private tmp in the same way, anon. Go ahead, use your bash script init system to make a private tmp for every system *that is completely isolated from the host OS*

i'll wait

then do the same thing, except for networking

then do it for every application ever

again, i'll wait

>>59489987
lol what i wasn't even aware of this

so systemd is more secure? have i been memed by reddit? fuck.

>>59489791
>they did all of this shit and more
>they still use binary logs

>>59489043
Pid1 can be handled by a 10 line C program.

Systemd is overcomplicated shit that tries to solve a lot of problems nobody really has or asked for solutions to.

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>>59489859
And systemd absorbs Plymouth.

Still waiting for some Poettering knob-slobberer to explain to me why systemd needs to handle NTP, socket activation, logging, and so forth, when really all we ever needed was a better service runner?

>>59489987
You didn't specify if it was for services or users.
Just use containers. You can script that easily.
>for every application ever
systemd doesn't do that though.
User processes run like normal.
All that containerization is complex, and when it breaks, which happens often enough, it can be less secure than not having it at all.
Completely unneeded on desktop.

>>59489791
>After it became clear that rivers didn’t turn into blood, the complaints have only been sporadic.

This is how it always begins

>>59489791
>Systemd is a lively project with dozens of developers from various companies, including Red Hat, Samsung and Intel. It integrates contributions from even more individual contributors: to this date, 438 authors, with 63 having at least 10 commits. It can also be noted that two of the Debian maintainers have commit permissions.
80% of the code is committed by 4 people.
>Other distributions who switched to systemd were also confronted to a lot of controversy before the switch. After it became clear that rivers didn’t turn into blood, the complaints have only been sporadic.
Because any time you ever try to say something about systemd, anti freedom Red Hat shills come and silence you. Those people either forked their distro or switched to a new one.
>Systemd’s upstream is very accommodating to distributors. They are taking a lot of Debian’s needs into account, even though it has not yet been decided to make it the default.
Extend , Embrace, Extinguish.
>Systemd developers participate to a lot of conferences, they hold regular hackfests and always ask for feedback on their plans from downstreams (including Debian) before going ahead with them.
See above. It's just a facade, used to gain power, they don't give a shit about what anyone else wants.
Systemd ships high quality documentation, including manual pages for all tools and configuration files, as well as design documents and administration tutorials.
They do have a lot of documentation.

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>>59477279
I'mma just turn around and

>>59478156
That's because you're a johnny come lately newfag.

>>59478020
yes but i chose the default install which uses openRC

>>59478020
Gentoo has a larger userbase than PCLinuxOS.

>>59477279
install FreeBSD you fag

>>59477279
install OpenBSD you fag

>>59477279
install OpenBSD you fag

>>59477279
install Source Mage GNU/Linux

>>59477279
instal Plan9 you fag

>>59477279
install MINIX 3

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>>59490378
Not OP but I'm actually doing that right now and I'm at network drivers. I'm installing it on a t61 so I was expecting drivers but to no surprise its not preloaded so now I have to ethernet this bitch tommorow and check the man pages on how to get the drivers later.

Fuck BSD

>>59490532
Why would you use *BSD for the desktop at all when Linux supports so much shit out of the box?

>>59490575
>linux
>systemdicks

>>59490575
I'm setting up a mail server from home with it. It's gonna be shit but I dont care, it's an old laptop.

>>59483279
With aur you are supposed to read the pkgbuild before installing

>>59489780
Systemd is cancerware and will kill Linux.

People are already switching to FreeBSD and OpenBSD in droves.

>>59477279
How long until AMD integrates their HAL into systemD? I know their code is too shit for kernel, but is it shit enough for systemmeD?

>>59478348
networkd is the best ethernet network method tho

>>59483482
Wow. That setup is great. I'll try to do this, when I have the time. Thank you anon.

>>59477332
Already running Slackware.

>>59477279

NSA/systemd is a cancerous backdoor.

Replaced NSA/systemd for sysv on my NAS.
Replaced Debian Jessie for Devuan on my PC.


Don't forget to install the popularity contest when moving away from NSA/systemd.

I'm planning on installing some Linux distro without deleting my Windows install, but I'm obligated to partition and that scares me because I'm a bit of an idiot.

I read you can't undo partitions, that's what scares me, once I make a 10GB partition am I not allowed to add some space to that partition or the other? will they always be the same?

does it affect performance?
are Linux distros better than Windows in terms of performance?

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>>59477279
Look at OP. Unable to learn new things, unable to accept the future, ranting randomly about inevitable changes.

>>59491926

>unable to accept the future

You can shape your own future sempai.

>>59491891
Read up on the process again before you install. it sounds like you know just enough to cause some trouble.

>>/g/fglsqt

>>59477338
Will this Gentoo meme ever die?

>>59489446

Lol syndromeD

I don't get why lincucks distros have such a bee in their bonnet about init and fast booting. How often do you boot your systems and what difference does a couple of seconds make? Most servers I've run in the past decade only have a single service on them anyway, and SSD makes laptops boot pretty fuckin fast, not that I need to reboot the laptop much.

In fact this init bullshit just makes me think of some sweaty neckbeard with a stopwatch optimizing his boot speed.

You know what DOES slow down booting? Debugging broken, bloated and inscrutible init replacements where you could previously just quickly jimmy up a script. And most services handle their own children and signals I don't need init to handle that I just want the faget to start services automatically on boot.

If you're talking about elastic deploy speed just use stripped containers. Replacement init is tomorrow's problem fixing yesterday's problem.

>>59490532

If obsd doesn't ship with drivers for your hardware, it's because your hardware is closed and they can't ship a free driver. Get better hardware.