>The machine is acting up, just hold your card in place >Only

>>59435070
This has honestly never happened to me.

>the machine is acting up

this is the nice way to say "you fucking did it wrong shitdick" as a retail worker

>>59435070
>What is this regressive bullshit?
It's called being American anon, sorry for your loss... maybe someday your infrastructure will catch up to the rest of the world.

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>paying with anything but cash or GNU/Taler

>be German
>use card
>"sorry, cash only"
feels good

>>59435216
>having less options feels good
What kind of retarded fascist faggotry is this

>be german
Oh nvm

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>2017
>Not doing transactions exclusively in Bitcoin

>>59435178
>Doing something wrong
>Retail worker

You would be the authority there, champ.

>>59435188
Feels bad man :(

Every store I go to has a big warning on the card reader "SWIPE CARD DO NOT INSERT".

I can't even remember the last time I paid with credit card IRL.

>>59435216
>>"sorry, cash only"
Is this common in Germany? It's only common in really small stores in the US of A (Like backwater gas stations) or places that operate in flee markets

>>59435712
The bigger the store the more likely it is to accept debit or even credit cards.

Supermarket chains and gas stations usually all accept cards and since the fees have been capped, most even accept credit cards (not all though).

But lots of smaller places you visit on a somewhat frequent basis don't do card payments, like bakeries or butchers or hairdressers

Also some stores won't accept Visa/MC, only our national debit card system (girocard, formerly EC card) which sometimes is a problem for tourists.

But it's not really that bad. Most bigger purchases you can do with card. And who really wants to pay with card for something like 2€ for bread?

>>59435795

>And who really wants to pay with card for something like 2€ for bread?
People who don't carry cash?

>>59435292

Can't use bitcoin in a grocery store.

>>59435070
This has only happened to me when I was still using only the magnet stripe, around 15 years ago

Now contactless payment is becoming popular here in non-Burgerland, kek

>>59436590
>People who don't carry cash?
Everyone does here.

>>59436590
>>And who really wants to pay with card for something like 2€ for bread?
>People who don't carry cash?
this

I barely carry cash at all anymore. Almost every store takes my card that's linked to my bank account.

How the fuck do all u inbreds have problems with your credit cards?

I've literally never had ANY of these issues.

>>59436670

So... Germans are very cash-oriented, carrying cash everywhere, while be contrast, the Swedes have many stores that won't accept cash at all.

Culture is weird.

>>59436769
there's literally no reason to use cash

Credit cards:
>build credit history
>offer rewards, zero liability fraud protection, cashback n shit
>Easier to track your expenses than cash which is hard and confusing to track where ur money goes

>>59435188
Get raped and kill yourself, you retarded fucking faggot sack of ugly nigger shit with down syndrome.

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Design a better system... you could layout the pins on the edge of the card, more like a Nintendo game system cartridge. What other solutions are there for a credit card sized chip that needs to be plugged and unplugged quickly?

>>59436792

I just use a debit card everywhere. I've been too lazy to go ask my credit union for a credit card.

>>59436670
You _should not support_ shops that don't accept cards.
They should either start to accept or go extinct.

>>59436860
>credit union

lmao good cuck

>>59435210
> This

Credit cards and bank accounts by design let a central entity own and spy on your personal finances. That's not free.

> Daily reminder that you should always keep your money in cash, hidden under the bed. A true free man does not have money in the Jewish banks

>>59436907
>using cash

>Not bartering and exchanging gold flakes for goods and services

Hello non-free cuckold.

>>59436907

>Daily reminder that you should always keep your money in cash, hidden under the bed. A true free man does not have money in the Jewish banks

Sorry, we're not all poorfags with less than $1,000 to our name living NEETcheck to NEETcheck.

>>59436860
I have one (my bank gives it for free to people with a job just like they give debit cards), honestly the only reason being that some online stores (most of them american of course) accept ONLY credit cards so they can rip people off with those automatically recurring payments. Try literally every single american porn site for example, or the UK's latex lucy.

Credit cards are fucking useless when debit cards exist. All they allow you to do is spend money you don't currently have and pay it later, which really is just another way americans try to ruin themselves.

>>59436803
The one that's in place?

>>59435178
wat

you tell them what they're doing wrong until they do it right. If they can't figure it out you try to help them. If they refuse to be helped you allow them another try or so on their own. If they don't leave on their own out of frustration at that point you politely tell them to leave. If they won't leave and insist on trying more you sternly tell them to leave. If they still won't then you threaten to call security or the cops. If they still won't then you call security or the cops. Now its not your problem.

>>59436965
>Credit cards are fucking useless when debit cards exist. All they allow you to do is spend money you don't currently have and pay it later, which really is just another way americans try to ruin themselves.

1) You get fixed up faster in cases of fraud than with debit cards

2) You get rewards for using a credit card

3) You build credit history which is important

There is LITERALLY no reason to use a debit card over a credit card.

>>59436990
Here's one reason.

You can't go into $30,000 of debit card debt. Only credit card debt.

>>59436965
if you're gitting gud then you have good use for spending money you don't have

Most americans don't even have a slight clue of what it means to git gud so they end up in debt and shit.

You don't use credit to buy that new expensive thing you can't afford, you use it to buy that new expensive equipment/conference/course so you can make more money.

>>59437008
How is that a good reason?

You only get into debt if you'r a mental retard who just starts buying things he can't afford.

If you're that mentally retarded maybe you don't need debit/credit cards. You need your handler to manage your money for you.

>>59437019
That's retarded. You should never spend more money than you have. The only exception being getting loans for your business to grow.

>>59437019
>Most americans don't even have a slight clue of what it means to git gud so they end up in debt and shit.

So that's good. I'm glad they're retards who get in debt.

They're subsidizing our rewards. I hope they keep it up, i want bigger rewards.

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>>59436969
Or similar to an sd card or whatever, but is it the reading mechanism that fails or is it some other thing? At gas stations it uses the magnetic tape anyway.

>>59436965
Credit is more secure when buying online. And you lose at most $50 for fraud. Have fun getting your account drained nerd.

>>59437060
Hey, he's going to make some boris very happy.

>>59436990
>1) You get fixed up faster in cases of fraud than with debit cards
only because murica made it so for themselves
2) You get rewards for using a credit card
only because murica made it so for themselves
3) You build credit history which is important
only because murica made it so for themselves

here in europoorland nobody gives a shit about credit cards. Banks dont care about what cards you use if they're trying to fit a loan to you or anything either, they just check your salary history, late fees, that sort of thing.

What I know of credit history, it seems to be literally that: a history of credit card payments, and I assume your punctuality in paying it back. Literally no better than your stiptness in having money on your account so your debit card payment can go through in the first place. That whole importance attached to the use of credit cards sounds pretty self-serving, like it was made up out of nowhere and then justifications for it were equally made up out of nowhere, and muricans believe it all

>>59437040
It's easy to buy something on a credit card or lots of little things and not realize how much you're spending. With a debit card, you don't need to worry. You literally can't spend more money than you have.

>>59437074

Can't use my card outside my state, much less my country. Your move, Boris.

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>>59437078
There's more than goes into it.

Refer to: [PIC RELATED]

>>59437083
I don't have mental retardation, so that's not a problem for me.

I'd rather enjoy getting a *FREE* several hundred dollars a year in rewards.

>>59436590
>People who don't carry cash?
I never use cash.
It's easy to know what I'm spending when it's all through my card.

>>59437097
>Can't use my card outside my state, much less my country. Your move, Boris.

Boris will use it in your state, using a residential proxy installed on a computer part of a botnet.

>be a fucking leaf
>have had chip readers since 2009 and contactless/tap-to-pay since 2013
Feels good man
What's even better is that contactless never ever fucks up

>>59437060
>Credit is more secure when buying online
Really? All it takes to use a credit is reading the number on the back. To use my debit card you need to have my card AND my pin code. Other than that they work the same. How is credit card more secure? I could lose my debit card and not need to give much of a fuck, just get it blocked by cardStop when I get a moment to call them. Lose a credit card and you better get your ass ready.
>And you lose at most $50 for fraud.
murica-specific
>Have fun getting your account drained nerd.
literally less likely to happen with debit cards

>>59437151
because contacts do fuck up?

>>59437151
yeah but as leafs we don't get good rewards

What cards u got senpai?

>>59437144
Boris has no idea where I live, though.

>inb4 Boris is now omniscient and now god.

>>59437127
You're literally proving my point. Your credit cards are only precious because you created a bank-cock-sucking competition system out of nowhere to justify their existence in the first place. The importance americans attach to their credit cards is a circular reasoning.

You don't get shit for using a credit or debit card around here. Why would you? It's a payment medium, not some sort of stamp-saving discount-coupon collection card with which to brag to others how much of a consumer you are.

>>59437212
Boris can check the BIN of your card to see where it was issued from, and he will also have your address.

>>59437236
Okay so what's your point?

I didn't make up the system, I don't give a fuck about the philosophy of using credit cards. I just live in this system, so I abide by the system and I do what lets me succeed in this system.

If I lived 6000 years ago where we'd need to barter for goods and services I would do that. i just adapt.

>>59437238
>Boris can check the BIN of your card to see where it was issued from

BIN number shows you where the banks headquarters is located. Not my state.

>and he will also have your address

Wrong.

>>59437286
>Wrong.

Right.

if he has your credit card number he will have your address. How the fuck would he have one but not the other?

>>59436907

No credit card companies exist because banks couldn't cooperate. Basically credit card companies came in and said for a fee folks could use this card and you would be assured you get paid. It also worked over the phone, fuck sending people a cheque to buy something you saw on late night tv.

I know all y'all are breaking site rules but there was a time you paid for your groceries with cheque.

Regarding op, he's retarded. Canada doesn't even accept swipe because that shit is super insecure. Chip is super fast if they aren't using ancient technology (literally dial up at some places) there is also tap to pay for small fast purchases.

Majority of credit card fraud is because places still accept swipe. It's been insecure for decades at this point and why you get fucked when a card number isn't encrypted - people just print out new cards with your info and hit up some expensive stores.

America is fucking retarded sometimes.

>>59437303
The address on the card is not the state where I use the card.

>>59437236
>Why would you? It's a payment medium, not some sort of stamp-saving discount-coupon collection card with which to brag to others how much of a consumer you are.

And you would because creditors want to know the person they're loaning to. If you have a good credit score that means you pay off your debts diligently and are not a nigger who will not pay. So they want to loan to you, which is why they offer you more favorable loan conditions.

is that so hard to understand?

>>59437322
He will have your residential address if he has your credit card number you retard.

>>59437303
Generally not.

Just number, name, expiration and CSC

>>59437350
r u dumb?

How would he have those but not the person's address?

>>59437337
So now he is god, because my address listed for the card is not in the state the card is auth for use.

>>59437255
Because americans are holding the rest of us back by sticking to those medieval systems. I sometimes go to a webshop and find something I wanna buy, only to find out they're american and only accept credit card. with all those scummy tricks like automatic recurral. Most of the time I just sigh and close the site because I'm not putting up with such nonsense anymore and none of us here understand why americans are so content using an inferior system while you always brag about how great you are and how you'll oust those in power if they don't live up to expectations because your constitution provides for that

>>59437326
Here's an idea: check the bank records of my debit card. Literally the exact same information except they can see I even get my money ready in my account the moment before I spend it, meaning I'm even more punctual than a credit card payer

>>59437360
Because that's all that's sent for payment info on terminals.

>>59437174
rbc signature visa and the pc plus mastercard
i really only use the pc one though because free groceries is best

>>59437236

You can get awesome benefits with the rewards. I fly for free by just paying my bills which I could do with my bank card or my credit card.

Points are legit. You're just being dumb if you don't take advantage.

>>59437378
>Because that's all that's sent for payment info on terminals.

They would be getting credit card dumps to clone cards then wouldn't they?

>>59437326
>credit score
replace this term by what it actually is: your punctuality in paying debts

I don't need to spend my money through a credi card for them to see that I don't cheat money

>>59437397
The issue then is using the cloned card in slavistan.

>>59437389
I don't because we don't have those points and other bullshit, because we never saw the need to create a reward system out of nowhere to justify the use of redundant payment system designed to get people in trouble and that serves only the banks

>>59437365
okay dude i don't fucking know i didn't make the system

All we're saying is that there's no reason not to use credit cards at this point in time, you get free shit... JUST for paying as you would normally.

>>59437403
okay well for some reason they figured this is the way to do it. I don't know why, i'm not well-versed in credit risk shit

https://www.quora.com/What-are-some-good-introductory-readings-on-credit-risk

>>59437313
>I know all y'all are breaking site rules but there was a time you paid for your groceries with cheque.
I know, and I want to hit someone every time I see grandma at the checkout line holding everyone up by trying to relive those days

>>59437419
>The issue then is using the cloned card in slavistan.

It wouldn't be used in slavistan. It would be sold to Jamal and Demarcus to use in your state.

>>59437424
>you get free shit *in america
for the record

>>59437174

Sure we do. Look at amex. Free year, get a bunch of aeroplan points, cancel after free year. If you hustle your friends to sign up you get more points, and they get points and it costs no one anything but amex.

Just remember to cancel lol

>>59437440
Again, you don't have an address so you don't know where the card is from.

>>59437422

Wtf kind of backwards country do you live in? I bet amex had rewards.

I agree credit cards are bullshit, but I live in the real world.

>>59437472
You don't need one if they're cloning the card. Unless it's for some reason only usable in some state

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>>59436799
he's not wrong

t.american

>>59437459
i have a TD visa infinite it's not very that great

fuck this shit country

>using a card
Enjoy having your account drained by hackers.
Cash does not have this problem.

>>59437496
But that's the issue at hand.

It seems pretty foolproof. Only enable the card to work in x place. Would cut down on tons of fraud.

>>59437083
So you'll give up all the benefits of using a credit card because you're too retarded to track your spending?

>>59437558
Yeah true but then what if the person travels a bit?

Also wouldn't they be able to track where the card got skimmed from, and know what state it is? Not very foolproof.

>>59437535
>What is fraud protection

It's not the customer's responsibility.

On the otherhand enjoy getting robbed by Dequan and his boyz for all your cash.

>>59437589
You let your bank know you are traveling for x amount of time.

>skimmed from, and know what state it is?

It's generally not.

>>59437610
>It's generally not.

If your plan was put into place it would be. And it definitely is, because people either physically install skimmers or use POS malware. And know exactly where it is. Your idea isn't that good.

>You let your bank know you are traveling for x amount of time.

"Yes hello [anon's bank], my name is anon I want to unblock my card please, back from my vacation early. It's unblocked? Great thanks so much".

And that's not what I mean - although i guess i typed it poorly, I meant what if the person travels to another state and needs to use it.

>>59437660
>>59437660
The seller knows. He does not tell the buyer that because it makes it easier for him to get caught.

>he forgets to tell his bank he is going to another state.

Then he calls them after it declines?

>>59437692
Would they? Idk how it works.

Dumps have address information don't they? Can they be used online?

who here nfc payments master race?

>>59437723
No. You don't give the buyer any info about yourself when selling illegal stuff.. Pretty basic.

>Dumps have address information don't they?

They can, generally don't.

>>59437742
>No. You don't give the buyer any info about yourself when selling illegal stuff.. Pretty basic.

but they list them by state bank and stuff...

>>59437792
Again, bank is fine because people do travel.

>>59437607

Hugely inconvenient. Especially if you're traveling (which is why having two credit cards is nice)

I mean getting your card stolen isn't fun.

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>>59436965
>>59437019
>>59437078
>>59437236
>>59437365


Do European banks really not let people overdraw and then charge them a fee for "borrowing" the money.

I make sure to have this "feature" turned off of every account I open.

>>59438347
As an unemployed student I had €400 free overdraft, nbd.

>>59438347
It depends on the bank you have and when you pay it off. Most banks in the UK if you pay it in 48 hours nothing happens. After that it gets interest, not a fixed charge.
Fortunately I've never been in a position where this has happened. But interest can only be applied if you're 18 and over.

>>59437127
>free
>Literally handing over your purchase history to a megacorp.
Anyway...you can still earn rewards while in debt.

>>59436907
>money in cash, hidden under the bed
what's inflation?

>>59437424
They did it as a way to theoretically remove racial and gender bias. It's basically:
Yes he/she may be a bigger but they take debt on and pay it off when they're supposed to. As far as the other anon is concerned. Credit scores exist so that the bank can be sure that it's going to get not only the principal on the loan but also it's interest payments since that's how banks make money.

>>59437472
Do you not order things online? That's one way to get it.

>>59438347
Overdraft on checking accounts is VERY common in Germany, it's called "Dispokredit" or "Dispo" for short.

And since the commonly used debit cards are linked to your checking account (Girokonto), it basically makes your debit card into a credit card.

The interest rates are comparable to credit cards as well (many banks will charge upwards of 10%).

However the Dispo is limited to a few hundred to a few thousand euros at most (and to get a few thousand € in Dispo you need a steady income among other things), so there are usually not "big" cases of debt when overdrawing your account.

But then again I only hear of those literally tens of thousands of dollars in credit card debt from the internet so I have no idea if it's common in America.

You can still get big in debt in Germany but you really need to go out of your way to do it. Like apply for multiple accounts and credits for shady banks, foreign banks, etc.

My chipped debit card died 2 weeks after I got it, I insert the card and the machine says chip malfunction, try to swipe it and it says insert card....repeat, repeat, repeat...pay with credit card.

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>uses a physical card
t. Finnfag

>mfw americans got chipped cards 15 years late
>mfw they need to wait more than 3 seconds for transaction to complete
>mfw they probably have not heard of contactless yet
>mfw they swipe
>mfw I'm 25 and way too young to ever witness anyone swiping a card
>mfw I have no face

>>59436803
>needs to be plugged and unplugged quickly?
NFC you mongoloid. Japan has had touch and pay for decades.

>>59437083
>It's easy to buy something on a credit card or lots of little things and not realize how much you're spending.
Not really, no. Do you also eat gallons of ice cream because you didn't keep track of the number of pint containers you piled up in your trash can?

>>59438978
Your purchase history is tracked anyway if you use a debit card. If you keep everything as cash, the petty thieves will be sending you a thank you card in a week.

>>59437168
>All it takes to use a credit is reading the number on the back.
But the credit card company will refund you for fraud and issue you a new card. It's not secure, it's insured.

>Lose a credit card and you better get your ass ready.
Exact opposite, stupid. If someone gets your debit card and drains all of your money, you're only insured a few thousand dollars or so by law.

If someone gets your credit card and maxes it, you report it and you pay $0, nothing comes out of your bank account.

>get new credit card
>it has one of those "chips" europoors on /g/ keep raving about
>go to mcdonalds
>order two mcdoubles, a mcchicken, 20 chicken nuggets, 2 large fries, and a mcflurry
>attempt to slide the chip
>"you have to insert it in the slot underneath, sir"
>the slot takes 30 seconds to find
>60 more seconds for it to "verify"
>beeps when it's done
>go deaf from beeping
>by the time I get to a table, my food is cold and a random shooter has gunned down everyone in the restaurant
>have to tip the shooter
>he only accepts credit cards
>"you have to insert it in the slot underneath, sir"
>get shot because I can't find the slot in time
>now $130k in debt from hospital bills
how the hell is this any better?

>>59435210
What are stallmans thoughts on BTC?

>>59437535
Cash has the problem of getting drained by some nigger who corners you in a parking garage at night.

>>59439866
>Cash has the problem of getting drained by some nigger who corners you in a parking garage at night.
I've never been mugged in Germany.

>>59439877
Do you also not have house fires in Germany? Do you also never lose (or "lose") your wallet in Germany?

>not draining your bank account the second the bills are paid and leverage the month through your credit card
>not putting everything into a boring index fund so you at least have a comfy retirement when you fail to find a gf
It is like your faggots like losing money

>>59439855
he's not big on btc because it lacks anonymity. as great as it is to skip the payment processors, the main reason he doesn't use a credit card is the NSA data mining, and bitcoin doesn't protect against that.

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>>59437083
Maintain a register with GNUCash you quintuple-nigger!

>>59435070
>he doesn't have tap

and before you respond

>he thinks tap can be easily stolen because he doesn't know how it works

Is it true that Americans need to tip to ATM provider each time they withdraw money?

>>59435406
not the guy you're replying to but you don't have to be a retail worker to recognize thinly veiled "customer service"-speak. you're not a gullible idiot, so stop acting like one.

>>59439982
what's an ATM provider? unless that's a mistranslation, we don't even have one, let alone tip one. but i've never heard of tipping anyone related to banking in general.

if you're trying to make a joke about americans having to tip to offset the shitty minimum wage laws, try doing it in a way that doesn't leave a reasonable person suspecting that you're actually 100% serious and not being facetious.

>>59439982
No but the ATM doesn't open its tray until the user clapped audibly.

>>59440014
>>59440021
I mean paying fees for withdrawing money from ATM other than your bank's.

>>59440014
>if you're trying to make a joke about americans having to tip to offset the shitty minimum wage laws
You don't. The law required employers to top the wages of their tipped employees up to the 'un-tipped' minimum wage if tips alone won't get them there.

>>59440079
That is so fucked up

>>59440039
well yeah but half of europe has that too

>>59440095
Not in the UK. I can also use my debit card pretty much everywhere around the world without paying a penny to the ATM provider.

>>59439447
>phone runs out of battery

what do?

I keep my savings in Bitcoin and use a Bitcoin debit card to pay for most things. The exchange rate is determined at the time of the purchase.

>>59440095
Not over here. Anyway, how much are being cucked out of per withdraw?

>>59440124
Depends on the bank. I get 3 free withdrawals per month, which should be enough even if I use a lot of cash.

>>59440149
That's with other bank's ATMs or your own?
If it's your own then it's a scam.

>>59440124
I never use out of network ATMs (people who bank with bofa or a co-op member generally have a nearby ATM at all times), but I think it's usually $3 depending on the bank.
Some banks will pay the fees for you, especially with some kind of premium account. I think that's what the UK does, except it's standard.

>>59436590
>not carrying wads of cash to light your cigar

Are you poor?

>>59440092
>No hourly paid worker can legally earn less than the minimum wage
What's the problem with that?

>>59439848
Canadafag here.

I don't insert chip cards anymore, just tab with card or phone and ta-da.

>>59440105
>credit card got demagnitized or chip malfunctioned
What do?

>>59440230
>credit card got demagnitized
That's very unlikely to happen by chance.
You need a very strong magnet.

>>59440177
In the UK, if you use other bank's ATM your bank pays that bank 12p for balance check and 17p for taking money out, but you personally never get charged for it.
Also having a current account and debit card with no fees is completely normal. I actually have no idea how our banks make any money. I have never personally paid my bank a penny.

The only ATMs you might have to pay for are private ones like inside bars. These charge you £1.25 per transaction. It makes no sense to use them though because free ones are usually within a walking distance.

>>59440244
I managed that by putting my card onto my speakers couple years ago

>>59440230
nigger i accidentally brought my wallet into a lab with a 10 T superconducting magnet on several occasions, nothing happened. It sure could happen there but not too likely with normal people
as for the chips, the europeans don't seem to have many complaints

>>59439848
>a random shooter has gunned down everyone in the restaurant
I gunned down your mom last night

>>59440248
No account fees is normal enough in the US, but for the free account the only expense I can think of for the bank is making the debit card (free accts can't use tellers). And I'm sure it's more than worth it with the killing they make on overdraft fees.

>>59440362
>overdraft fees
Overdraft is the single most retarded thing you can do. If you are short in cash, it makes much more sense to pay with credit card and pay it off in time. By law, they can't charge you any fees if you pay it off within 56 days. Many people don't know it so they end up being raped by overdraft fees.

>>59437431
Glad I'm not the only one.

Especially when the bitch chooses the express checkout line.

>>59437431
>>59440402
How do cheques work? I never had a chance to write one.
I mean if I write one and I don't have money in my account, seller won't find out about it until the day he will try to cash it in. What can he do then?

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>root your phone
>android pay stops working

>>59440430
Living without ads is more important to me that mobile payments.

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>>59440439
oh on top of that
>have android N
>no adblock
>no xposed

>>59440428
(american here, we spell it "check")
my dad did that shit a few times, the grocery store called and said they'd press fraud charges unless he paid up with fees
but most cheque transactions in 2017 are processed the exact same way as a debit card transaction, the computer reads the numbers at the bottom and does its thing.

>>59440501
Where they got his phone number from?

>>59440512
it was probably printed on the check along with his home address, if not then the bank

>every store has card readers, even shitty pop up kebab shacks
>contactless for purchases under $100
>chip/contactless with pin for anything over
>goes through in 5 secs max on fucking Australian internet

I can't remember the last time I had cash in my wallet.

>>59440526
OK but why would anyone want to pay with cheque instead of a debit/credit card? Seems like a huge waste of time with no benefits.
>>59440546
Same here in the UK. Contactless limit is £30 though.

>>59437255
Part 1:

Don't bother arguing, there are too many idiots here. If you are in the USA and are *not* an idiot, there is no reason to use cash over credit cards, unless you get a discount for paying in cash. Don't use a credit card to buy more than you can afford, and pay off your bill in full each month, and you end up well compensated for using credit cards. If you have established good credit, on average you can get rewards and cash-back that can total 5-10% of your spending on credit cards if you sign up for enough rewards programs (you can overlap credit card rewards programs, dining rewards programs, frequent flier rewards programs, etc all on a single card if you know what you're doing). And paying your bill in full each month means that you never pay a cent of interest.

The alternatives aren't really helpful. Paying with a debit card involves all of the same tracking as paying with credit cards do (your bank actually uses the credit card's payment network to process transactions), and you don't have the same fraud-protection/ability to dispute charges without drawing down on your own bank account balance that you do with credit cards. Paying with cash is fine (as I said above), and if you're making a transaction that you don't want tracked, obviously use cash.

But the idea of *exclusively* using cash is ridiculous for anyone who isn't a NEET or an [insert-illegal-thing-here]-dealer (newsflash: adult jobs don't pay you in cash, they cut you a check or deposit money directly into your bank account). Even (especially!) if you are involved in illegal activities, you *still* want to maintain a normal bank account to establish and maintain an appearance of being above-board. You will gather a lot less attention if you're involved in illegal activities if you are someone who has a normal bank account and normal bank account activity, but keeps it sequestered from your illegal activities than you will if you decide to drop off the financial grid entirely.

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>>59436990
>1) it's got electrolytes
>2) it's got electrolytes
>3) it's got electrolytes
Jesus fucking Christ America, credit cards have their uses like overseas online shopping and large (say $500+) purchases, but using them for every day shopping is completely retarded and makes you just a willing tool in having everything you do tracked and recorded.

>>59440556
>why would anyone want to pay with cheque instead of a debit/credit card
beats me. old people stick to their habits I guess. and they probably read wacky conspiracy theories on facebook about credit transaction fees funding soros/evil hedge fund managers/lizard people

Alright fat/europoor jokes aside, can someone explain to me why chip & pin rollout in the USA is 15 years late, and why transaction with it takes ages compared to the rest of the world?

>>59437255
>>59440592
Part 2:

But honestly, the circle-jerk crowd in this thread really isn't involved in anything illegal to begin with (except for *maybe* very, very low level shit that nobody cares about), so that is all a bit moot.

TLDR: Don't be an idiot and use the system to your advantage to the extent you can.

>>59440601
Actually, there is a reason, but it's not a good one. As noted here >>59440592 debit card transactions piggy-back on credit-card companies' payment networks, so writing a check allows you to transfer money without going through those networks. But your bank's routing system can still (obviously) track your transaction.

>>59440636
Why should I give a fuck which network is being used if the end result is exactly the same?

>>59440646

You shouldn't. Like I said,
>there is a reason, *but it's not a good one*

>>59440605
as far as I can tell it's profiteering on the part of banks and makers of PCI equipment. Even with this delayed rollout smaller shops got fucked hard by the cost of new card readers. Transactions are slow for various reasons, one is that the infrastructure of payment processors still isn't fully dedicated to EMV.

>>59440654
Since it's only now that new card readers are being introduced, I assume they going straight to chip/contactless combo, right?

>>59435070
>not paying in cash

>>59435070
This has never happened to me.

I live in Finland and use debit and credit cards nearly always. The longest it has ever taken me to pay something with them was about 10 seconds but it usually takes only few seconds.

Back in the 1990's it might have taken about 20 seconds when the internet connections were slower and machines had to wait for the actual verification longer. Now it's about instant thing and you use more time getting the card out of wallet than paying.

Hope that you get better internet connections soon in your country so that payments can be handled quicker. I think some countries still use ISDN and normal dial up connection for handling the verifications, that is brutal and you have to wait minutes in those places and can even get errors and havo to start all over again.

>>59440636
>>59440592
not entirely correct, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EFTPOS
you can run a debit card transaction through mastercard and visa but if you pick the "debit" option at a typical POS system it's a different system.
e-check uses the same EFT system, so if you use a check at a retailer that feeds it through a machine there's no difference between checks and debit.

>>59435070
>It's purposely slow
>normalize paying with phones
>imf banks will roll out "government backed" cryptocurrencies in a year or 2.

>>59440706
>The longest it has ever taken me to pay something with them was about 10 seconds
That's what OP's talking about. Do you really think it took 20 minutes? No, it's called hyperbole.

>>59436860
Pretty stupid

>credit card gets scammed not liable for anything
>debit card gets scammed you get to fight to get your money back

>>59440719
10 seconds sounds like an extreme example. Usually the transaction is over before you even manage to get your wallet to touch the reader.
If paying with chip, you insert your card, enter pin, hit enter, and transaction is done instantly.

>>59440681
no, the bargain basement readers that smaller stores have are just a slot for the card and a keypad for PINs. Big retailers are getting contactless though.

>>59440732
Both have the same level of protection, at least in the UK.

>>59440759
Well they don't in the US. Debit cards should literally only be used to get cash

>>59440776
Well shit. In the UK not many people have/use credit card. They are pretty much useless.
The only reason I got one is because I get 0.5% cashback on everything I bue, + foreign currency transactions have no fees, which is something you can't get on a debit card here.

>>59439767
>japan has had NFC for decades
so has everywhere else

>>59440812
I have been to Japan few times. Good luck finding a place that accepts cards. Even McDonalds is cash only.

>Canadian
>Having the opportunity to swipe, insert, or tap (tap for up to $100 CAD purchases)

>>59440742
US isn't chip-and-pin, though, it's just chip-and-signature, which is hardly any more secure than swipe-and-signature (the most common place CC info is stolen is still restaurants, where you still give your card to a waiter, who takes it away and then comes back with a receipt for you to sign. He can copy down your number while doing this regardless of any individual transaction identification created by the chip).

>>59440600
This is a good argument in favor of cash, but a shit one for debit cards

>>59440807
Baseline credit cards for anyone with a better credit score than Tryone have at least 1% cash back

Just pay your statements off in full each month and credit cards are superior to debit cards in every way. Obviously cash is king but it's a pain in the ass sometimes

>>59440847
>European
>Having the opportunity to insert, or tap
>Not swiping because no one accepts it since mid 2000s

>>59435070
It's honestly been better than having to call my bank a couple times a year because someone bruteforced my pin#

>>59440850
>chip-and-signature
such thing even exists?

>>59440812
Lol, do you honestly believe that?
Most of Europe doesn't for example.

>>59440890
Welcome to the USA!

>>59440890
oh yeah, in the US no credit card has a PIN because no bank wants retards to brand them "inconvenient"

>>59440896
Only time I had an opportunity to get my card swiped was on holiday in Taiwan when paying for hotel.
I was like what the fuck is that guy doing, but then I realised I seen cards being swiped before on old movies.

>>59440896
Germany as well.

>>59440920
>>59440911
>>59440896
I swear I've been using debit and credit cards for the past 10 years and NEVER had to swipe my card nor to sign anything. I only ever seen it being done on films.

>>59440946
In the US, the chip cards really do slow things down, because in the past you would swipe your card, and the info would be on the card reader instantly, because there was no need to create a transaction record at that point. In Canada/(most)EU countries, the part where you add your pin basically disguises the time it takes to have the transaction created. Whereas in the US, we were used to it being instant.

>>59440946
They just look at it and say you're good?

>>59435070
Move to Canada, it's worked fine here for years.

>be in supermarket
>retard tries to use chip
>removes the card instantly for no fucking reason
>tries again, does the same shit
>decides to swipe instead
>swipes with the magnetic stripe facing the wrong way
>tries again, finally gets it right
I hate this kind of retards, really.

>>59440600
For 2% cash back, I'll let my daily purchases and large purchases be recorded while having a complete list of the money I've spent sent to me every month so that I can scrutinize my own spending habits by having them laid out for me all at once.

I don't see a downside to this. There is nothing interesting about me buying lunch or a guitar or a computer part, and the last time I checked, anybody who sells anything remotely sketchy to really sketchy (casinos, bars, clubs, drug dealers, prostitutes, etc.) don't take credit, or it's preferred that you have cash in hand in the first place.

I'm sorry you don't want people to find out about your dragon dildo collection, but most of us don't have purchases like that, or are smart enough to not put that on a credit card.

>>59440971
You enter your pin, wait 1-2 seconds, and you are good.
Or more recently, you touch the reader with your card and you are good.

>>59437607
>>What is fraud protection
>It's not the customer's responsibility.
Chris Hadnagy takes issue with you.

>>59440157
Others, own is free of course.

>>59441088
Capital One refunds all transaction and ATM fees anywhere.

>>59440428
>>59440501
Your check bounces. You do not want your check to bounce

>A bounced check is slang for a check that cannot be processed because the account holder has non-sufficient funds (NSF). Banks return or bounce these checks, also known as a rubber checks, rather than honoring them, and banks charge the check writers NSF fees. Passing bad checks can be illegal, and the crime can range from a misdemeanor to a felony, depending on the amount and whether the activity involved crossing state lines.

>When there are insufficient funds in an account and a bank decides to bounce a check, it charges the account holder an NSF fee. If the bank accepts the check but it makes the account negative, the bank charges an overdraft (OD) fee.

>Bank fees are just one part of bouncing a check. In many cases, the payee also assesses a charge. For example, if someone writes a check to the grocery store and the check bounces, the grocery store may reserve the right to redeposit the check along with a bounced check fee. In other cases, if a check bounces, the payee reports the issue to debit bureaus such as ChexSystems, a bureau that collects financial data on savings and checking accounts. Negative reports with organizations like ChexSystems can make it hard for consumers to open checking and savings accounts in the future. In some cases, businesses collect a list of customers who have bounced checks, and they ban them from writing checks at that facility again.

>>59441109
The time I waste visiting an ATM 5+ times a month is worth more than an ATM fee if I visited an ATM once an month and my bank charges a fee.

So I guess that's nice and all, but it's a pretty useless benefit.

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>>59441211
>$2 atm fee
>$2.50 non Wells Fargo fee

>>59440719
The 10 second thing was an extreme case and it happened to me while paying for a taxi ride from another city to where my friend lives.

My friend lives in middle of a forest area so only 2G and 3G data available there and that was not the best kind either. So it took a long time to handle the verification but that has been the only time really and it was in a taxi not in a shop where there is a better connection available.

As mentioned before it usually is an instant paynent and does not take time.

>>59441211
It's anything but useless. Being charged to access your own money, regardless of how miniscule the amount is, is literally worse than Hitler. I could be in desperate need of cash and find an ATM with a 1¢ fee and I still wouldn't use it. The fee's even more retarded for smaller amounts. If I take out $20 with a $2 fee, I'm paying a 10% fee merely to receive a $20 bill that I earned. That is simply unacceptable.

Before that bills became mandatory many bars and restaurant would take cash only so the could keep the money of the taxes. If you didnt have paper money there was an ATM that would charge you like 5$ fees.
Some places still do the ATM bullshit.

>>59440987
I can see your point, but such militant support for electronic payments is still very ironic coming from a board obsessed with botnet.

>>59436990
>3) You build credit history which is important
So that they'll let you get deeper in debt?

>>59442238

Not him, but having a credit rating can help in several ways that isn't directly associated with consumer debt:

>Better rewards offers from CC companies, so that you can earn more cash back/equivalent rewards
>Super low interest loans for cars and mortgages (yes, this is more debt, but when debt approaches 0% interest - which it can for things like car loans - there's no reason not to take advantage of it)

>>59442266
>rewards
Money has to come from somewhere. You pay for everything in full, the price is just spread over everything else you pay for, which is even worse because you end up having to pay for someone else's "free" stuff, or something you may or may not get.

>>59435070
>What is this regressive bullshit?
Deprecated old bank systems on life support via backwards compatibility.
Why we can't have 256 char long pin codes in 2017?

>>59442394
>Money has to come from somewhere.
You're right. And in this case, it comes from people who don't pay their bills off in full each month, and instead pay a ~20% APR to finance their CC purchases.

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>>59442457
>mfw 7.9% APR

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>>59442476
>mfw I also have good credit.

is there any reason not to get 30 different credit cards, one for each store I shop at, as long as there's no annual fee and I always pay off my balance?

>>59436769
Yeah, that's not culture speaking, but capitalism coupled with an early stage of authoritarianism.

>>59442492
You're better off with 4-5 used regularly, paid in full and on time. Having too many open accounts can actually be a negative

>>59442492
At a certain point, having a large number of credit cards will hurt your credit rating (especially if you open them all in a 3-year window). If you plan to need a credit rating for something else in the next 3 years, it's not a good idea to do this.

On the other hand, if you don't plan to need a loan for a while, go ahead and do it. Back in the days before the housing crash, you could open up cards that would give you a 0% balance transfer for 18 months, and then put that money into a CD that made ~6%. Nowadays CDs don't pay anywhere near that amount, though.

>>59442457
There must be a quite lot of people like that so that the bank still have any profit left after all the "free" giveaways

>>59442558
There are. And in comparison to the average 'giveaways' an individual might get, the usurious interest rates charged to the average person who doesn't pay in full each month *more* than makes up for them.

>>59435070
>use wireless payment whn the sum is <25€
>takes about two seconds
>dont have to use a pin code and i dont have to interact with the cashier
>dont even have to take the card out of my wallet

feels good livin in europe

>>59440105
I never run out of battery

>>59442596
Haha, no. The money come from the card processing fees and all of it goes into the price of course. You might get some of it back as "free" stuff sometimes, but in the end you're still losing money.

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>>59442862
>Use mobile visa even sum is 9000€
>use self-checkout
>lower your head and grunt when cashier guarding the devices says goodbye when you leave

>>59435070
>2017
>not using wireless payment options
How backwards is America really

>>59436990

>3) You build credit history which is important

In quite a few european countries there isn't a concept of credit history or credit score.
Usually credit applications are reviewed individually, taking into account points like monthly income, job status, current payments, etc., and that decides if it's considered low or high risk, and the amount allowed.
What does exist though, is a sort of "blacklist" of people who consistently miss on their payments.

>>59435216
>uses cash

literal stoneage tech.

>have chip card
>someone still gets number and uses it online

What's the fucking point then? Gas pumps don't have chip readers. When are they going to make credit cards require 2 factor authentication? I wouldn't mind a mobile app where I had to approve each transaction. Make it optional for the people too stupid to use it.

The last piece of shit that stole my card number ordered a $500 air purifier and $500 blender. What a faggot.

>>59440000
check'd and kek'd

>>59443357
im from finland to fyi

>>59442394
I have $2500 worth of travel points from just 3 credit cards. The bulk is from sign up bonuses but a good chunk is just spending. Chase sapphire reserve is 3 points per dollar on restaurants which is where a majority of my daily spend goes to. Each point is worth $.01 - $.0125, or even more if you want to blow your points on shit like Singapore airlines plane suites.

It's neither regressive nor progressive. It adds no additional security, just as using electronic swipe machines added no additional security.

It's all placebo.

>>59435795
It costs you €30 or so a month to have a payment terminal that works with all normal debit cards. What the fuck is wrong with Germans.

>>59437479
never even heard of amex

>>59435188
>yuropoors don't have credit cards

Can't say I'm surprised.

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>>59443801

>>59443990
We like cash.
Personally I always pay with cash whenever I can. It's the only widely accepted currency that doesn't generate tons of data everytime you transfer it.

that never happened to me, though for the past few years I've been using NFC exclusively

>>59444016
Credit cards here just work ;-P
Go eat your burgers, fatty

Used my chip debit card in europe yesterday:
>insert in the reader
>enter pin
>wait 2 seconds, then there's a faint beep and the screen tells me to remove the card
the beep is so you don't accidentally leave it in there by the way. It's not so bad, at least we don't have completely arbitrary "credit ratings". Sounds like a complete rip-off.

>>59438347
Atleast in germany there are options for everything including some (minor) free overdraft, like 200-300€


I personally prefer to carry cash around, its also pretty common here in germany

>>59443578
Credit score is literally good goy points. I'm from Europe, living in the US for over a year now, and I can't say enough how much I fucking hate the concept even on a principle alone.

>>59435070
> complains about botnet and companies that might save their data
> uses a card that literally spies on them and saves the time, location,money they spend and items they purchased along with their personal information open accessible for the company and the government

>>59435292
>bitcoin
>"Alright sir, just stand right over here for 20 minutes until the transaction gets confirmed."
Yeah, that's much better.

>>59444310
They're not completely arbitrary though
>do well with payments
>score goes up
>do poorly
>score goes down

>>59435216
>cash only
TAX EVASION

>>59435084
This, it's always the customers fault, they are never smart enough to place the card in the insert, and just leave it alone. Some people slide it in, and jiggle it around, or just fucking jam it in there as hard as possible.

It's really not that difficult.

>>59435070

>2017 still using chip & pin

The rest of the world has moved to contactless

>>59436769
>Americans that get confused at other countries existing

captcha: calle calle

>>59443775
The track data contained on the magswipe doesn't include the CVV2 value (three digits on the back of the card) or CVV3 (contained on the magswipe).

As far as 2FA- banks tried it and retards found Verified by Visa, Mastercard Securecode, etc. "too inconvenient". It also required sites to integrate their payment flow to bounce to check if the bank offered these - Newegg did it (for instance) but a lot of sites never bothered.

>>59436792
You've got that wrong. Cards are only good for things where cash doesn't work, like buying something online. Cash is superior for everything else.

>>59447434
Next time I buy something at Best Buy and cash gives me $25 cashback off $125 purchase offer + 2% cashback on the purchase + free extended warranty (24 additional months on top of warranties 1-5 years long from manufacturer) + free accidental damage/loss protection (up to $1,000 per incident for 90 days, no charge), please let me know.

Oh, my credit card has no annual fee, and I pay no interest because I pay the bill in full each and every month.

>>59447480
neat

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>live in Eastern Europe
>go to any store
>and I mean ANY fucking store
>everything from large super market chain to wooden shack selling cigarettes in the middle of nowhere supports card payments
>every single website that has anything to do with monetary transactions allows various forms of banklink payment
>some places even allow contactless transactions

>mfw this isn't taken for granted in """""""""""""developed"""""""""""""" Western Europe
>mfw you fuckers still walk around with pennies like elderly people

I like how must arguments against cc are based on their owners acting like total morons.

I mean, a subset of the population does act like morons with them, but that doesnt mean YOU have to.
If you dont know how much you are spending or how much you can spend, then you are a financial moron.

>b-b-but it's easy to forget with cc

Once again, moron. There are countless tools to keep track of this shit if you are too lazy to look at your accounts AT LEAST weekly. I have never EVER paid a penny in interest or fees and have earned hundreds in cash back.

But I understand that if everyone were like me, the cc industry would not exist as such. So thanks for the money morons.

And if you ever want to stop being morons, just start looking closer at your finances.

People really have problems with using a payment card? When did /g/ become retarded?

My landlord only accepts money orders and debit because bounced checks from niggers and/or coalburners.
The kicker is that he charges 10% for electronic payment of any kind, meaning that unless you have free money you just love giving up, you have to go out of your way to pay $1-$5 to get a money order from the bank or another place that does them.

Absolute homosex and I can't wait until my lease is up in May.

>>59435210
This. Pay with cash. If you ever need a card, get one of those prepaid cards at a gas station.

>>59435210
>no credit score
>can't rent or buy property
>go homeless

>>59448190
>need a credit score to get an apartment
no

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Is it bad to keep my money in the bank and just withdraw cash when I need it? I mean big brother knows how much I get paid anyway, all this does is let them know when and how much money I'm withdrawing. Thoughts?

>>59435292
>using bitcoins after the 0day exploit

GAY
AS
HECK

>>59447480
>thing costs $90
>put $125 price tag on it
>hey good goy, I like you so it's $100 for you just this once!
>"ooh what a steal"
(You)

>>59449694
It's not $25 off a specific item, it's $25 off a purchase. Best Buy price matches with other stores incl. Amazon separately from promotions. You could buy an $100 electronic that Best Buy gets from the manufacturer for $90, or an $100 "super gold 4K" HDMI cable that Best Buy makes for less than $2.

>>59448224
>need a credit score to get a nice apartment
Ftfy

>>59440895
What? I live in europe, we've had nfc and/or mobile payments for tens of years. I remember buying pizza and cokes with my phone 20 years ago.

Nowadays I rarely spend more than two seconds paying for my shopping.

Yanks are backward hicks.

>>59449721
That's the simple version of the story.
While you can get an actually good deal sometimes you're still being ripped off on average. It may be not even paying kikes directly, but something like the guy who had to pay for your freebies charging you more for his goods or services to cover his expences.

>>59447907
>what is auto bill pay
Are you retarded anon? Wells Fargo sends it as a check to your landlord.
More importantly though, why are you living around niggers?

>>59448224
>lives with illegals and criminal niggers confirmed

>>59449994
The only illegals in my area live on farms in trailers, and I can't tell you the last time I've seen a negro.

>>59450028
Unless you pay ~25% of the lease upfront no landlord is gonna rent to you without a credit check.

>>59450066
Whatever you say, anon.